The Ramsey Show - App - Cut Debt out of Your Life! (Literally)

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

From Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by my friend Dr. John Deloney, number one best-selling author, and we're here to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Give us a call at 888-825-5225. Sarah's up first in Dallas, Texas. How can we help, Sarah?

Hi, how are you? We're doing great. What's going on? Great. Well, so I am married, possibly separated from my spouse. I stay at home, and he is a breadwinner. I've raised our children. And I am not allowed to see any of our financial information, bank accounts, credit cards, passwords, nothing like that. Yikes.

What do you mean you're not allowed? I know. He just says that's how I was raised. I make the money, and he does very well. I don't care if he makes a dollar or a million. It has no bearing on your involvement in knowing what's going on financially in the family I know and he just says

he owns commercial real estate and so he tells me it's too much for you to handle, stay in your lane so we call that financial infidelity that's what I've told him and he just shakes his head at me. My therapist has said the same thing and he just says, that's how I am. That's how my parents were and I'm not changing. All right. Then here's the thing. Most people don't get that clear of a response. Now you have a choice to make. And I wish it wasn't this complicated. I mean, I wish

it wasn't this simple, but it truly is. He's told you he's not changing yeah and by the way if you file for divorce and they do a forensic um investigation into his all of his slash y'alls because you're from texas y'all's money um it's all going to be put on the table so he can be a grown-up adult and be an actual married man who loves and honors his wife and his kids and share the family finances together, or he can put it all on the table with the help of an attorney and a forensic accountant that he's going to pay for. So this is what has happened. This is very different from what I've been told. We did come up with a post-nuptial agreement about two years ago. And in his mind, it was, if we separate, you will get this amount of money.

Now stop talking about it. Stop questioning me. Um, and so he says that if I go and investigate with this forensic forensic accountant, that he will take that money away and he will try to take my children more. Yeah. And you need to go talk to somebody today. I've, I've spoken to an attorney. Um, and what they've said to me is this is quite a good, um, post-nuptial agreement. I would be very comfortable, honestly, for the rest of my life. He has a lot of money in cryptocurrency that I know he's hiding. And I know that's really tough to investigate. I don't understand what you're asking. If you have an exit strategy that's going to take care of you for the rest of your life

and take care of you and your kids, I don't know what you're asking. So should I just take the post-nuptial agreement and let him get away with it? I can't give you that. That's between you and your lawyer. I mean, I'm not looking at it. I don't have it. I don't know what you're dealing with at home. I just know you're in a very abusive situation,

and it's hard to see the forest from the trees, and I'm telling you that you're worth more than the life you're living right now and everybody thinks he's the sweetest guy doesn't matter doesn't matter doesn't matter doesn't matter doesn't matter doesn't matter I also have a disability um that I'm unable to work so I'm just real fearful that I don't know know, you just... Listen, what you're doing is you have a lot of what ifs and a lot of oh this is and that's and then in 10 years and in 15 years, I want you to go sit down with an attorney. Not him, hon. Don't send the post up to a friend of yours who happens to have a law degree. Hire a lawyer and go sit down and talk and say, I need to know

what rights I have. Here's my disability. Here's my situation with my kids. I know my husband's hiding money. Here's the post-nup. And the attorney's job, because you're hiring them, is to advocate for you. And sometimes their advocate, like them being an advocate is, hey, this is the best deal I've ever seen on paper take it and run sometimes they say we're gonna dig in and we're gonna burn everything to the ground because this is a terrible deal but that's their job is to fight for you i think they can find cryptocurrency because i know that's so shady it's such a weird dude you're you're like you're you're you're stepping over 100 bills to pick up nickels right now like you're you're you're stepping over a hundred dollar bills to pick up nickels right now like you're you're worried about the the how the the thread count on the beach towel you're gonna wrap yourself up with if you swim to shore like let's get to shore first

what about him hiding i know he hides money with his business partners they're like swap hundreds of thousands of dollars and put it in each other's accounts. Like I say, I mean, what do you want me to tell you? I don't know. I think this is you starting to realize how angry and resentful you are, living this life this whole time while he hid everything. But the truth is, like John's saying, it has no bearing. You have your agreement on what it says will happen,

and that's what will happen if you take the agreement. And so he may have hidden money offshore. I have no idea. But it doesn't matter. Right now this is about you and your kids and your health and your safety. And if he's got a bunch of – a couple of business partners, and they're all laundering money and being shady and shifty, and they get a knock on the door from a federal investigator or from forensics accountants and they get served for all of their um last seven years of financial transactions and

every electronic transaction they have made every electronic communication they've made every email every text every signal every, every WhatsApp, everything. And by the way, it's all discoverable. Then maybe they pucker up real quick and tell him to change his tune. But here's the thing. You won't know any of that just sitting in your house and spinning and spinning and looping and looping and looping.

And that's what you've been doing for a long time, right? Yeah, about five years now. Let's stop. Let's take action. Either make peace with this is my life and this is what we get and he treats me fine i just don't know how the money works and maybe he does i'm confident he doesn't treat you fine because this isn't the behavior of somebody that treats their wife fine um or he thinks he's amazing to me and he does everything else nicely but that and then when i I ask him, he gets real defensive. Here's the deal. The ball is in your court and you wondering about

what about this? What about this? What about this? That's just a way to numb yourself from the reality that you are holding the next move you make. And if that next move is nothing, then set the ball down and just decide, I'm not going to ask questions about that. It is what it is what it is. Well, we're getting divorced.

I mean, it's happening because he doesn't want to hear me complain about it anymore. Have you already filed? Or has he filed on you? No, but he's moved out. Okay. It's just the next step. Okay. If you're going to file, then go hire an attorney.

Do not get a friend who has a buddy who's got a sister who went to law school. Hire an attorney, a good one, in your community, and someone who will fight and advocate for you. And then sit down and lay it all out on the table. Right? But here's the thing. For you and for everybody listening, it's the, and I get it, it's fear, it's scary, and freeze is one of the ways our bodies try to keep us safe.

I totally get it. But there comes a moment when I'm going to stop living like this and the only way I can do it, I can't think my way out of this mess. I've got to act. I've got to go do. Michael Easter wrote a great article recently. Just go do something, right? And in your case, call an attorney who's ready to go to war for you. And sometimes in war they say, hey, we need to retreat.

Let's just take what we we got and let's move. That might be the right case, but you won't know until you make that call. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John Deloney, and we're going out to George in New York City. What's going on, George? How can we help? Are you with us?

How's it going? Good. How are you with us how's it going good how are you so i'm calling to ask and get your opinion on how much you should be spending on engagement ring i've saved up about twenty to twenty five thousand dollars god almighty that's too much. I think so. You must really love her. Are you loaded? I make around $200,000 a year. I'm 29 years old. I have no doubt.

Wow, way to go. All right, well, I'll tell you the general parameter, and my hot take is spend as little as possible. That will still make her feel loved. There's no data that shows that a nicer ring bodes for a better marriage in fact there's the data shows the opposite opposite yeah but generally at ramsey we would say hey one month salary is plenty which is a little bit you've saved even more than that um so are you making what 15 000 a month yeah roughly okay so i'd set a budget if that's 15 000 hey you do you you're debt free you can pay cash right we're not going to debt for this and go here's what i'm gonna i'm

gonna find the nicest ring i can for 15 grand is she involved in the wedding in the ring shopping yeah i mean she's been loosely involved i mean the big question is also, do I get a real or, or lab grown? And, you know, I, the reason I'm calling this or doing this call is I'm not supposed to think what others think, but I definitely be going against the grain with people in my circle, not getting a real, a real diamond. That being said, you know, and I think she means that she said she's okay with the lab grown and it doesn't take a fool to put, you know, $25,000 in a future value calculation and see that it would be a million dollars in 40 years when we're, you know. Sure. Looking at the opportunity cost of this ring. And the other piece is, you know, you got to pay for an expensive

wedding. Now you buy a $25,000 ring. you got to have a $250,000 wedding to match and now we need a million dollar home because now we got to keep up a certain lifestyle for the people in our circle and you said it I don't know why you need a pony this sounds like what you need but you see where we're going with this there's there's a piece of this where you have to detach from what your friends think and if your friends care that deeply about what kind of ring you got for the woman in your life, you need better friends. God, dude, I know. Yeah, totally.

Where did you get this, like, maybe I'm crazy. My wife would leave me if I had bought her a $25,000 engagement ring because she would have said, you are not somebody that I can trust to be a good steward of our finances moving forward. Like, tell me about $25,000 for an engagement ring. Where did that number come from for you guys? I mean, it's something that I came up with. I have about $500,000 worth of assets, like something that I could do

and still very comfortably have an emergency fund. What are your assets? Yeah. About $50,000 in cash or cash equivalents. And then about $200,000 in like 401k IRA-esque funds, and then the rest is brokerage accounts and mostly ETFs like VU. Okay. You can do what you want, brother.

Are you guys planning on buying a home together one day? Yeah, absolutely, and that's obviously something that factors into this decision as well. It just seems like, why have this? That's a down payment for some people. Yeah, 100%. What has the conversation been like with her? Because I feel like she may have expectations at this point

based on what has been said. I mean, I've said, like, we should seriously consider the lab-grown option, and she said she's, you know, basically hinted that that would be okay. I think it's me internally. I obviously don't want to disappoint anyone. Yeah. What is it?

I mean, I'm sorry for keep pressing. This is just new territory for me, okay? Why do you feel like you're going to be a disappointment no no no no disappointment like i listen i i love her very much i want to give her everything that that she deserves and and and i want her to be happy with it i also worry about like diamond prices are going down significantly. Like if I buy this thing, it's not that I'm ever going to sell it, but I would hate to buy it and 10 years from now it's like everyone's buying

lab-grown ones anyway. Who's going to know if it's lab-grown or moissanite or made of you know, ring pop? Who's going to know other than you two? Exactly. I'd go, hey, let's shop. What of rings do you do you like and then we go okay that one's out of the budget because i can also imagine again this is just me

i would not feel comfortable carrying around a 25 000 appendage a piece of jewelry that I can lose, that I can trip and fall, that I can break, that I can scratch. I would feel so paranoid all the time. I would never be comfortable in my own skin. I'm assuming she doesn't have that challenge. I don't think she would, but obviously I would. I'd be freaking out. Obviously the insurance is another piece of the puzzle. That's a lot. It's between you two at this point. I don't think she's a vain person who wants a $25,000 ring. Nothing indicates that, but I do think your friend circle has too much influence in your life and your impending marriage. And so does your Instagram feed. I just think you need to get some other perspectives and voices in your life.

But bigger than that, dude, knock your lights out. You want to buy some expensive jewelry, you got the cash. I want to see your cash position improve because this takes half of your cash. And it's, what, 5% of your entire net worth you're going to spend on a ring. On a ring. So I want you to have some more cash, which means pull something. But, dude, you do you, boo. Yeah, thanks for the call, George.

There's no easy answer there. It's largely dependent on the couple. And, again, we're not here to tell you what you can and can't do with your cash, but just two knuckleheads' opinions who have been married a good while now. John's going on how many years for you, John? 23, 24, something like that a long time long long time i'm at seven and i can tell you the ring has never come up in conversation i can tell you can i tell you this um i actually brought it up recently i told my wife hey um

the ring i bought her was when i was a school teacher and i would like to upgrade upgrade it that's that's the word the kids use. And she said, I'm going to ask you, please don't do that. Like, I don't want to deal with it. I don't want to carry around something fancy. I love this thing. It means what it means to me, and I'd rather spend our money elsewhere. And obviously, I married somebody who's practical and pragmatic,

but also, yeah, it became kind of what this last call was about. I wanted to buy a new ring for me, right? I want her to look nice, whatever, but I mostly want to buy it so that I can be like, look, I got my wife an upgraded ring and this, you know what I mean? And that's a different ballgame. Yeah. I mean, personally, I would just rather spend 5,000 on the ring and go on a really nice honeymoon and cashflow the wedding and have some down payment money. That feels like a better, you're setting yourself up for a better marriage versus having something flashy to go, he loves me this much. That's crazy.

That's a tough one. That's a tough one. This may be antiquated. I know we have some recently engaged ladies in the booth right now who may have a differing opinion, but I just think. Kelly, can you just thumbs up or thumbs down? Are we crazy? Are we crazy?

Sort of. I know she's got that real diamond. She said she wanted the real thing. We're talking to the wrong lady out there. $20,000 though? Too much? No. There's a limit.

There's a limit emotionally, financially. And he makes $200,000. But in New York City, that might be a down payment if you're lucky. And so there's a piece of me where you've got to look at the opportunity cost. And I know life is more than opportunity cost, but we have very clear data that the marriage isn't better because you spent more on the ring. And so therefore, I go, what's the point of the ring? What was the original – why did we come up with this idea?

Oh, that's right. It was like De beers and k jewelers decided you oh yeah three months salary on a ring that's what you should be spending well then jared was out in the back like smoking a cigarette and he's like wait wait wait hold on hold my beer one year of yours i don't know what jared was doing but like i just gotten out of control and then i want the real blood diamond john it's a symbol that says now and forever. I'll be right here till death do us part. That's it.

Man. It's nothing more than that. That's what it means. It's not like there's more forever if you get a bigger diamond. Right. It's just forever. Or you love me more. $25,000.

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our Investing Essentials virtual event is going to teach you everything you need to know about how to get started and how to maximize your investments. Hear what we're saying. Get off the news clips that are throwing all these soundbites at you and get off TikTok and Instagram for your long-term investment strategies. Actually sit with somebody who's been investing for a long time and who was going to open up their playbook. It's happening March 4th and March 5th. Tickets start at $199. It's hosted by Dave Ramsey and George Camel. $199. Sounds like a

lot. If you end up making a few tweaks and you end up with millions of dollars over the next 10, 15, 20, 30 years, that will be a drop in the bucket, money well spent. It's also the only place that Dave's going to get personal with his playbook on real estate investing, explaining how he's made hundreds of millions of dollars in property investments. And by the way, this isn't one of those scams where you leverage this and you flip the tax and slap it up, flip it and reverse it. This is an actual guy who owns hundreds of millions of dollars of real estate. He owns it. He doesn't have some bank that's leveraged to another bank and a partridge in a pear tree. He's going to teach you how he did it. You can invest with confidence and start building wealth. Get your tickets today

at ramseysolutions.com slash events, or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or watching on the tubes. Well said. I'm pumped for this. I'm lucky I get to just hang out next to Dave as he does this. So I would pay good money. Imagine that five hours with Dave over two nights, would you pay him $199 to sit with Dave and ask him all of your investing questions? And that's the cool part. You can actually submit your questions if you're part of the event, email them in. We'll take them as they come in live. And it's going to be a really good time. Dave's going to unpack it with formulas and how he analyzes every investment with real examples from his portfolio. Well, and he doesn't like it when I say it like this,

but he's the reverse of almost anyone I've ever met. And that is the only other people I've ever met like him are kind of like professional fighters who are super gentle and kind because they can beat up everybody. And so they're so kind, they have nothing to prove. And so when you meet them and you're like, oh, you're a fighter. They're like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. They're very dismissive like that.ave is like that in on the radio he's like oh shucks right he's goodwill hunting he's a math savant who pulls these things together and has

formulas and equations it's when he started doing quadratic algebra and he's like all right we're gonna go into the board i was like you lost me brother but he there's a method to this madness and it's not just an angry guy popping off it It's a guy who's done the math, and more importantly, he's lost it all. And even more importantly, he's actually done the work to own hundreds of millions of dollars of real estate. He owns it outright. He's not leveraged up to his eyeballs like most people in his situation are. And he's able to teach, here's why I'm doing what I'm doing. And most people are like, oh yeah, but what? to teach, here's why I'm doing what I'm doing. And most people are like, oh yeah, but what?

All right, here you go. Bluff called. Here's all the math. Here's my portfolio. Here's how and why I do this. Here's my ratios. And it's 199 bucks. It's a ticket to the mind behind the madness.

Well said. RamseySolutions.com slash events. Don't miss Investing Essentials. It's happening next week. All right. Maria's in Orlando up next. Maria! You're welcome. That singing is free. What's up, Maria? Hi, guys. So I just have a quick question. I am on Baby Step 2, and as of yesterday, I've paid off seven out of my nine credit cards. Way to go! Yes, thank you. I'm so excited.

It's about $25,000 to $26,000 that I've already paid off. Congratulations. And thank you. And my question is, when I first started, and this was probably about five months ago, I put them in a drawer in the very, very back in a box to not see them because I was scared of cutting them up. But, um, now I'm like, okay, they're paid off. Do I just cut them off and let the base close them? Cause two of them that I paid off within like the first month, I had not used them. I just had a balance. Um, they showed up as, uh, closed, um, uh, about three days ago, and I didn't even notice that they were closed.

My plan was to cut them up and call the banks and be like, hey, close my account, or do I just cut them up and then just- Cut them up right now. Do you have them on you? I don't. I'm on my way home. I'm going to be there like 15 minutes. Can you promise America that you're going to cut them up and that you're going to DM me a photo of the cut-up cards as soon as you do it? I will. Okay. Yes, I promise.

We have proof now that you said you would, and you're a woman of your word. So, yes, cut up the cards. It has no bearing on the account. It's just you burning the ships physically saying, I'm done. I'm done letting my life be run by lenders and the sick games they play to get me into the points and rotating cash back with 25% APR. You're done with that. You're too smart and successful to deal with credit cards. Yes, I definitely agree.

So do I still call the bank and tell them to close the account? Yes. Close all of the accounts. Okay. All right. I'll do that. Everybody's going to tell you about this. Your credit score is going to crash.

Your credit score is going to crash. It's going to go to zero. Oh, my gosh. Do you know what we're saying? It's all coming down. Yes. They're all going to tell you that. You want to have a fun game?

It's called Guess Georgia's Credit Score. Ready? Go. Ooh, this is fun. Is it zero? Yes. As close to zero as you can get. It's just indeterminable.

Yeah. So it's not that I have a bad score. It just doesn't exist. I disappeared in the eyes of the credit bureaus because I paid off everything, closed all the accounts, including the mortgage. And so when you do that, you'll have no score. And what you'll find is everyone made up some crazy story about how hard life would be without a credit card and how dangerous you are for using your own money through a debit card and how you'll never be able to rent a car again and buy an airline ticket in a hotel. And then I just did it and I went, oh, they didn't even

batten. I was hoping to put up more of a fight at the counter and they just went, oh yeah, debit card's fine. That works. We'll take your money. Okay. All right. Well, I will be getting home in 15 minutes and taking care of business and I will DM y'all the pictures. Perfect. Can't wait to see it. Taking care of it. Way to go, Maria. I feel like we got one win in today, John. That's good. I feel great. I needed that. All right, let's go out to Brian and see if we can help him in Syracuse, New York.

What's going on, Brian? Hey, guys. Thanks for your time today. So my question is about selecting a smart investor pro. So I went on your website recently and had quite the candidate pool reach out to me. So I know they should have the heart of a teacher, that their values should align to my values and goals. I know the four buckets I should be investing in, but outside of that, what qualifying questions should I be asking and what does that conversation look like? Great questions here. So you're in baby step four?

Yeah, four, five, and six. Yep. And for some more background, I've been contributing to a 401k for well over a decade, but now it's time for a 529. And when I went to set it up, it wasn't as clear as those four buckets, you know, the growth, growth and income, aggressive growth international. So that's where I was like, you know what, maybe I'm a little over my head, or maybe it's time to pay someone to help me manage these because I'm a bit of a tightwad, but if they can help me and it makes life a little easier, that's kind of where I want to go next. Absolutely. Well, you're asking great questions. I'm proud of you for where you're at and reaching out to a pro knowing, hey, I want to know that I'm doing the right

thing instead of just hoping and guessing. And a good financial advisor will actually teach you and help you understand and leave the ball in your court to make the decisions. And they are truly there as the guide. You're the hero when it comes to your investing journey. And so ask them, hey, how do you operate? What's your investing philosophy? What kind of services do you offer? Beyond just helping me choose a few funds, what is this relationship going to be like? How are we going to communicate? How often? How do you get paid that's an important one to know can i ask you another quick a weird question like

do i want to hang out with you don't want to call you do we vibe do we have some chemistry here that's an important part of it yeah if you don't like him don't worry about it like my my smart pro i i he he was a close friend of mine before In fact, I didn't even know he was in the program. I didn't know he was a part of it. But he knows me well enough. We make jokes. He'll send me an email or a text message and say, hey, you're about to get an email.

Just don't open it because he knows that I overreact and I panic and I get all like, ah. But that's a level of, like, I want that guy to be, I don't know if be my friend. I want to keep it a professional relationship. But is there somebody that I like and somebody that I innately trust, right? I think that's just really important. They're taking care of an important part of your family's future.

That's it. It's part art, part science. Do we vibe and do I understand everything laid out here in the relationship? There you go. I love it. Is there anything that I should avoid? I mean, you want to avoid anyone who's selling you crappy products. And so if you jump on a ramsaysolutions.com and click on Trusted Pros, I guarantee you they're not going to be pitching you on whole life and annuities for a young guy. And so that's one thing to look out

for. Are they really just an insurance salesman, a wolf in sheep's clothing, or are they actually a financial advisor who's licensed to sell me investments, who has the best, my best interest at heart. That's the key, man. Great questions. RamseySolutions.com. Click on Trusted Pros. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story and it's a lie. In our self-obsessed society, we're obsessed about our own diets,

our own workout routines, our own jobs, our own social media feeds, everything. It's easy to forget that no one can do life alone. And I don't care if you're an introvert, an extrovert, or whatever you wanna call yourself, we all have to have a community and a support system to do life with. It's time to shift the focus from doing it all by ourselves to knowing that we can only be well and whole when we ask for help. Therapy can be a great source of help and support for any area of your life. And if you're thinking about

starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, so it can fit with your schedule. To get started, just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey hard to get ahead. And that's when YRefi can help. We're financing to a low fixed rate loan built just for you. You can find out more at YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey.

May not be available in all states. Our question comes from Lucia in New Jersey. What is the question, John? Sorry, man. It's okay okay i was distracted there for a second it was a soft toss yeah it felt like you threw it pretty hard the ramsey show question of the day here we go brought to you from lucia in new jersey my sister's going through a divorce and has to refinance her home to remove her ex-husband from the mortgage she asked if I would add her as an authorized user on my credit card, but not to give her a card so she won't be able to use it. She says it would just help her credit score so that she can get a better rate when she refinances.

I've never done this, so I'm not sure if it will affect my credit score, which is in the 800s. Do you see any red flags with this plan? Too many to count. All I see is all red flags. No, I would not add her. This is not going to be a blessing to either of you. I hate that she's going through this. It's going to be tough, but here's the good news. As her credit score improves, as she makes mortgage payments and stays out of debt and stays on time with all of her payments, her credit score will naturally improve and she can refinance to a better rate down the road. But I would not add her as an authorized user. Her credit history will become part of your credit

history and affect both of you. And if you make any poor decisions, God forbid, then that will also affect her negatively. And so I would say, listen, I love you a lot. I cannot bring you into my financial world and tether you to it. There's risk for both of us, and I'm not comfortable doing that. And let me just put this out there. I know it's one of those things where you say something like this, and those who don't need to hear it take it to heart, and those who do need to hear it won't hear you anyway.

If you need help financially from a friend say i need some money like that's the that's the cleanest clearest way to say i need some help but asking them to co-sign to ask to here we've been authorized used you're on a credit card but you keep the card you don't like now you're asking me to be your babysitter to be your mom to also be your financial advisor. And when you need a card and I won't give it to you, then I get to be your punching bag. Like you are choosing to disrupt the friendship and kind of blow it up. I'd rather a friend come to me and say, hey, I'm going to pickle. I need X amount of dollars. Then to come up with some scheme as to like, this is how it could work and won't affect you, but it'll help me. It just causes problems down the road. Yeah.

And the other part of this is you might actually be hurting her by artificially propping her up and keeping her in this house that she really can't afford. That's right. The answer might be she needs to sell the house because it's too much for her to take on on her own. And that's not a fun thing to do, but it might be the truth she needs to hear. And so you can be a support for her without attaching her to your financial world and dragging each other down. Great question, though. Cherokee's up next in Vegas. What's going on, Cherokee? Hi. Hello. How are you doing? We're doing well. How can we help? So I have a quick question. Before I dig myself into a deep hole,

my boyfriend was diagnosed with brain cancer. So sorry. He was diagnosed. So he's going, thank you. So he's going through radiation and chemo therapy right now. So I'm the one that's really bringing in money right now. So I'm the one that's really bringing in money right now. And he was surviving off of unemployment for a while. Whenever he went into surgery, that stopped around December, January, into December, early January. But now I'm getting a little behind on bills. I'm behind on my car payment and I'm kind of struggling to get

another job because I work 8 30 to 5 30 and most people want me to work about two to three days but at least a day during the week and I'm really struggling to find hours that are overnight. So I was wondering if you guys had like any insight on something I can do. This is going to be me being really callous. Okay. Okay. You've got to take care of yourself. Yeah. And you have to make sure your four walls, your bills, your heat your heat your water your transportation clothes on your back you got to make sure those things are steady before you have any business jumping in and helping somebody else and i know that's hard to hear what i i'm i'm concerned on multiple levels so when he got sick did he not have a job didn't have health insurance or anything

like that and that's not a judgment question there's millions of americans stuck there um he did have a job um he he he was going to work everything was fine and then right whenever he got the news he tried to go about it in a holistic way um but it just it didn't work out so he had to go through the surgery and then they kind of just dropped the chemo and radiation on him because he's been through this before but he didn't have to go through that but since he's older that's the route that they decided to take so who's paying for this is he insured, he is insured under his mom's insurance. Under his mom's insurance? How old is he?

Yes. He's 26. So he's insured until he turns 27, right? Well, they did drop him from the insurance, but his mom works with a private business owner, so they were able to get him back on there. So her boss has him on there because they know the situation that's going on. Who else is in his community right now other than you? Does he have family around?

Yeah, his mom and dad are still together. Because you can't be his full-time caretaker through this. And his full-time funder. Here's the thing. You have no—this is going to sound awful, okay? i'm just being as direct as i can because i love you you have no you're dumping money into this situation with like you don't know the medical history all you know is what he tells you you don't know where this thing heads i'd much rather see his family circle up and support him and love him

through this and you be the person that you can't the girlfriend the one who loves him the one emotional support exactly financial but you are playing all the parts of his life and that's a tough tough thing for you and you can't even pay your own bills yeah it is it is getting pretty tough so that that was my next um kind of what i was thinking along the lines of because his disability does come in in april so i will help a lot but our release is up in july and i'm trying to figure out what my next step should be because our partner is too much um and i i feel like i make an okay amount um and i'm trying to figure out i don't know what i think he needs to move back home and get a move on care family from the family and you go out on your own yeah yeah it's just too big for one person who's got to work one to

two jobs just to pay the rent on their apartment he can't he can't split bills with you right now he's not on a place to do that. Yeah. So you've got two people who are leading from a place of weakness, and you can't carry the weight for him. Yeah, he doesn't need to feel bad. He's got brain cancer. He needs to go get well. Yeah. And I get that's easy for me to say.

Of course he's going to feel bad. Any self-respecting romantic partner would feel bad. But, like, he needs to heal. Yeah. And that's what I told him, and I think that's why we're kind of like, you know, we don't really know what to do. His parents have been hoping that it's kind of being a strain on everybody,

and, you know, we're in a separate house from his parents, so... Well, you're going to be no help when you get evicted and your car gets repossessed and you can't even go to work. You're going to create even more problems if you continue this yeah so you need to make sure that you're well and he needs to focus on him and get his family involved and you can be a supportive girlfriend on the sidelines but i would i would not intermingle our finances at all what's his medical prognosis? He has an astral glaucoma, I believe. There's another similar name that he had four years ago. He had another one four years ago,

but I think the one that he has now is an astral glaucoma. What's the prognosis? Yeah, that's a whole different kind of... How is it looking? Cancer. Have the doctors said anything? Oh, um, they said that he's doing really good. Um, you know, with the radiation, um, it's starting to get to him, but he's almost gone, but he will be on chemo, but everything is looking up so far.

Okay. That's good news. Yeah, I, listen, I honor you for loving him and trying to take care of him. I love that, love that. But, man, if you go underwater, everybody drowns. So he needs to go back home with his family. He's not your husband. He needs to go back home with his family and get back on his feet there.

And y'all can decide what the long-term relationship is going to be between you two moving forward. From Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, here with Dr. John Deloney, host of The Dr. John Deloney Show, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Peyton will kick us off this hour in Atlanta, Georgia. How can we help, Peyton? Hey, good to talk to you guys. How's it going? Great. How are you? Good, good. So a little bit of background here. So I'm 27, and over the last few years, I've begun to come into an inheritance at the same time that my birth family has resurfaced. It's become a little bit tricky as a result there, just because I always

knew I was dealt an amazing hand, but you know kind of seeing you know what could have been has been pretty emotionally jarring so I'm wondering you know number one you know what's the responsible way to handle this because I don't think doing nothing is an option but at the same time um want to make sure that I kind of do justice to my grandfather and my parents who have kind of changed my life and my family's life putting me in this situation so tell me a little bit more when you say your birth family, um, are you adopted? Yeah. Okay. And so your adoptive grandfather, he's the one who's leaving you the inheritance. So, um, I was adopted at birth to a family. Um, so there's, I consider, you know, my family, cause I grew up with them. Uh, so that side of the family is where the inheritance is coming from.

Birth family is, you know, found out I was the oldest of a sister who's 19 and pregnant, and then two other male siblings, and then my birth mom, of course. Gotcha. And how much money are we talking here? So my grandpa was smart, so he stepped it in around metrics like graduation date and age and a couple of things. So it's up to $750,000 now. It'll likely cross over a million in the next few years. So it's pretty significant. feel or where the feelings are coming from that you have some sort of allegiance or you owe or

you need to put some money on the table for your your birth siblings i think it's you know that that old adage right you know to who much is given much is expected um yeah that's not that adage doesn't apply here at all not even that's that's what a guilty person tells themselves yeah why do you feel guilty i guess i mean i think especially you know being the oldest sibling you know kind of seeing i think my sister you know probably has the you know the drive to kind of get her life on track so it's it's you know wanting to support you know i saw my my parents and my grandfather do you know good good things with kind of the situation that they created and put themselves in. So, you know, I'm kind of navigating, you know, I know I could make a difference, you know, and, you know, it wouldn't necessarily change my day to day.

So it just hasn't seemed reasonable't actually get to my sister. Well, that's the thing is you have no control of this money once it's given. Zero. And bro, you are setting yourself up for a catastrophic world of hurt. I 1,000% agree with you. I'm just trying to put myself in your shoes. If I found out I had a whole other family and I got adopted by a family who was so great and they took me in and they, like you said, like I had an amazing life

and I won the lottery and my other brothers and sisters were adopted out and they did not get the shake that I got. I would feel a sense of I owe or obligation. And I need you to hear me say, you don't owe anybody anything. You can choose to give. And those are two very different motivations. If you think you owe, you are constantly going to be, it's a bottomless pit. It's a hole that can never be filled. If you say, hey, I won the lottery with my adoptive family. I got such amazing life, and I want to do that for other people. Then that's when you can sit down with your sister. And very similar to how your grandpa did it, who's very wise. Hey, sister, when you're ready, I'm going to pay for college tuition,

but I'm going to pay directly to the school. When you're ready, I will cover three years of daycare for your kids so you can get ahead financially, but I'm going to pay directly. I'm not going to give that money to anybody. You can love them deeply and support them and also recognize that they're terrible money managers. All three of those things can be true at the same time. Yeah. Here's what I don't want you to do i don't want you to give your mom twenty five

thousand dollars when she doesn't have the skills to handle twenty five thousand dollars because then you're going to end up resenting her and that's not fair to her you get what i'm saying yeah i hadn't thought of it that way but that does make a lot of sense you'll hand her like a live snake she'll get bit, and then, you know what I mean, like you gave her the snake. I wouldn't do that. And you're going to have to weather people coming out of the woodwork for your money.

You're about to be Bank of Payton once they find out that you're just giving away money like a game show, and they're going to be coming back. And Payton will bail us out, and how dare you? And, and oh you got this and we did it last time why not now why are you so stingy now I can't believe you you don't even remember you're raised and you don't even remember where you came from right they're not your real family you're gonna hear all that stuff dude yeah have they asked for money or is this just your own survivor's guilt talking? So that's the thing. My mom, uh, when she was, when I, before I found out she was doing things I didn't want with it, um, she would make up excuses, but my sister has always pushed it away.

Um, you know, she's on her own, she's got, you know, a newborn, obviously very young. And, and that's kind of where, you know, that almost makes you want to give more, right? Because they're, she, she has similar thing of like you know you don't owe me anything i just want to have you know the relationship is she a single mom yeah and what needs does she have right now that you feel like you could help with uh the kid has special needs so i know that that's uh like they're they're below poverty line so it's it's so it's such a stark contrast. So is that child care? What would you exactly help with versus just writing a check?

That's what I was thinking. A grocery gift card? What would you want to do? I think child care would be the most impactful thing because it would free her up to kind of take the steps necessary to stabilize her life, whether that be education or... Can she do that living in your birth mom's home? They live in a different state than I do currently.

No, no, no. But can your sister thrive under your mom's roof? Oh, no. They have a very toxic relationship. So maybe offering an apartment down the street from... I don't know how much money you want to put on the table here. I don't know what you do for a living. I'd want you to make sure you invest this thing

so you're taking care of yourself and your future family long term. But I'm with George. I think you, if you throw a checkbook at a problem, often everybody loses, right? It becomes full of waste and it becomes full of, well, what about this?

And I feel like this, when you spend money to solve a particular problem, you get different kind of results. Yeah. I will pay for you to move and I will pay for one year of an apartment right down the street from me. And that's going to cost $25,000. I'll put that on the table if you want to get out of mom's house. Now we're talking right yeah and and that's a finite cost and she doesn't have to feel guilty for just being on the take forever and but it's an actual problem being solved right now yeah the more specific you get the better and you can remain in control if you do what john said and go i'm going to give directly to the need versus just throwing a check at it but you. But you're a noble guy.

And I got nothing but respect for you, man. Good luck on your decision. But you don't owe anybody anything. You get to give. And that's a totally different spirit. Hey, guys, I'm Jade Warshaw. And I want to talk to you for a quick second about student loan refinancing. If your payment and your interest rate are burying you and you

feel like you can't dig out, refinancing your student loan debt might make sense. That's because a lower rate could free up more money in your budget and a shorter term could help you pay down your debt faster. So reach out to the student loan refinancing experts today at laurelroad.com slash Ramsey. There you'll find helpful resources like a student loan rate table, a refinancing calculator, and other tools. Plus, you can get an initial rate in just a few minutes. Laurel Road offers low competitive rates starting under 5%. And you can get your interest rate even lower if you sign up for auto pay. But if your situation is more complex, sign up for a free 30-minute consultation with one of their student loan refinancing experts

to get your tough questions answered. Listen, not everybody should refinance their student loan, so make sure you run the numbers. But for some people, it is the right move. Learn more at laurelroad.com slash Ramsey to find out more about their student loan refinancing. That's laurelroad.com slash Ramsey. Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bank National Association. All credit products are subject to credit approval. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Do not miss the upcoming Money and Relationships Tour. It's Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney like you have never seen them before. Going on the road, baby.

Hey, we're bringing The Ramsey Show and The Dr. John Deloney Show. We're crashing them together and we're bringing them live. Unfiltered, unscripted, and packed with wisdom and laughter. All the stuff you think, I wonder if they edit that out. The answer is yes, and that's going to be live. And that also makes me nervous because there's lots of phones out there.

And the audience, they choose the content of the night before the event. Yeah, we're talking, we might do live, we might do Q&As, we might do all kinds of stuff, but yeah, there's going to be

audience participation into how this thing goes, and so it's going to be a blast. It's just as off the rails as our shows can get sometimes, that's going to be the participation into how this thing goes. And so it's going to be a blast. It's just as off the rails as our shows can get sometimes. That's going to be the live event with us bringing the Ramsey show and my show live. They're headed to a town near you. Louisville on April 21st. Durham, April 23rd.

Atlanta, April 25th. Phoenix on May 5th. Fort Worth, May 7th. And Kansas City on May 9th. Get your tickets, ramsesolutions.com slash tour. And if you're tuning in on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the show notes. Be sure to say hi. I wish I could go.

They don't invite me. We're not. I'd love to drive out to Atlanta. Maybe me and Rachel will crash in Atlanta. That would be a blast. Just show up. That would be actually fun. All right.

Skylar is in Fort Worth up next. What's going on, Skylar? Hey, how are you guys? Doing great. How can we help? So, back in college, I had made some poor choices. I ended up moving in with my parents and starting over as a single mom. Well, recently, we moved to Texas from California, and now that I'm in a better financial situation, my parents want me to put a mother-in-law suite in the back of their property,

and I thought it was a good idea at first until I found you guys. I'm only in baby step two, and I am having a hard time trying to communicate to my parents that I don't want to go into more debt. So they want you to pay for the building of this in-law suite so that you can live in it? Yes. What's it going to cost?

So we've looked at different things. We were going to go with a container home style, which would be at the end of it, like $170. We live out in the countryside, so we'd have to get septic. I'd have to get the power line pole. Why don't you just leave? Can't you just go live on your own and rent an apartment somewhere so i ended up doing i ended up getting an apartment i can't move into march 19th i don't know i'm scared to tell my parents and i'm because they think i'm going to put the house on the back because and they want to make

a plan to get me to get twenty20,000 because my dad's initial plan was to have me take out a personal loan for $20,000, not touch it for a year, then use that to put down for the house, and then have the house overestimated $20,000 to pay off the... So are they using you as part of their financial schemes? Sounds like it, yeah. Okay, you just need to go. I don't understand.

I mean, you need to say, hey, mom, dad, it's been great. Thank you so much for letting me crash. Me and baby are going to go get our own place. You said you're in a better place financially. Can you afford to rent your own place? Yeah, so the apartment I did find, I can't afford it. They just, I can't afford the apartment. I just can't afford child care.

They helped me with child care, and this was a way to have a good floor. That's what I was wondering. Are they watching baby all day? Yeah. Yeah, so he's five now now so he goes to school but they watch him in the morning because i leave at 5 30 in the morning sometimes depending on how the volume is because i work for um i deliver mail um i sometimes don't get home till like eight o'clock are they going to cut you off because of this Skylar? I have no idea and I'm terrified because I made some really bad choices

and I'm so scared I don't want to kick you while you're down but it wasn't smart to sign a lease have you already signed a lease? no I did not sign a lease the earlier you learn this the better off your life is going to be. That doesn't mean your life's going to be easy and conflict-free,

but that means you're going to have this elusive thing that everybody wants and nobody has. It's called peace, okay? The only way through these challenging conversations, these hard moments, is right through the middle of it. Okay. Most of the time... How old are you?

I'm 28. 28? Okay. Most of the time, if old are you? I'm 28. 28, okay. Most of the time, if this is your first time to actually, I don't want to say stand up, but actually say, hey, I don't want to do that. And by the way, you get a pass. You can say, I can't afford to do this, and I'm not going to do this. I'm not taking on any more debt.

It's not a matter of you're a millionaire, and you have to say, hey, I don't want to do this. But I would recommend writing down what you want to say. Okay. And then having an in-person meeting with your mom and your dad and read it to them. Okay. And I want you to stop leading conversations.

The first introduction to me and George was, I made some mistakes when I was a kid. You've got to stop leading with that. You're more than that, okay? Mm-hmm. Do you believe me? Yeah. Okay, you're more than some college mistakes.

We all made them, right? And tell me about this little one you have. Well, he's five. Is he amazing? He's, like, the best. He is is uh like a carbon copy of me i swear well god help everybody just kidding okay so can we stop calling him a mistake yeah wouldn't have drawn it up that way and you've been through hell and back 18 to 19 to 20 to however old you are right now but dude you got a rad little five-year-old.

Okay? Let's stop leading with there's something wrong with me and let's lead with, hey, mom and dad, I don't want to go into debt and put on an apartment on the back of your house.

I'm so grateful for your hospitality. If that's the only option, then I'm out. Yeah. Have they always been there for you? Yeah. Okay. Then I think that's what you lead with.

You guys have always been there for me and I have to, I have to stand up on my own, but I still can't do it fully without you. I still need help. And if y'all choose to not have childcare, I'll figure something out, but just know I have to stand out on my own. Okay. Okay. And you've got to go through the middle of it. There's no hack to that. okay? There's not like a secret. What are you making delivering mail? My salary is $65,739. $65,000 a year? Yeah. Good.

And you said your hours, they range from 530 in the morning to 8 at night? Depending, yeah. So I have to leave the house at 530 because we leave about 20 minutes away. My start time is at 615. So I have to leave the house at 5.30 because we leave about 20 minutes away. My start time is at 6.15. So do you even see your son? For like a few hours at the end of the day if I get done in time. Because most of the time I'm usually done about 4 o'clock. But when the days are really heavy, I don't get done until like close to eight.

I'm wondering, what does child care cost around you if you were to put him in daycare? I would have to get an ambulance. There is no daycare. Okay, but soon, this is a temporary problem. Soon he'll be old enough, he'll be in school, this will all be behind us, right? Yeah. Okay. Well, just know this is not forever. This is a season, and it's going to be hard, and it's going to be uncomfortable, but you're going to be on the other side, more mature, more independent, standing on your own two feet. Do you still want to stay living with your parents if they didn't have this backyard idea? Yeah, I would have. Okay.

It's just, it's something that I can remember, especially my dad talking about wanting since I was little. Ah, so this is kind of his way to get that. Because here's the thing, sometimes, and again, I'm overly sentimental, sometimes our parents are doing the best they can to love us, and they'll come up with all kinds of crazy schemes to try to keep us safe. And sometimes when we struggle and stumble and fall when we're 18 or 21 or 23, they look in the mirror and they blame themselves. And so you know your dad more than I do. And it's easy for me to sit over here and say, maybe he thinks this is the best way out. And the greatest gift you could give him is to say, no,

no, no, no, no, I'm going to get my own place. I'm going to start branching out. Um, and I still love you.

I still need your help. I still want your influence on my kid's life, but I'm not going to, I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to borrow any more money. I'm tired of being in a hole. Um, and if he honors that,

cool. If he says, then how dare you, whatever, then you've got your very clear message that it's time to go. And maybe rural, you know, wherever you happen to be,

rural Central Texas isn't the place to be. And it's easy to talk yourself into a trap that I'll never make more money than this. It's all I've got. It's all I'm worth. And that's not true. None of those things are true. Okay?

Hey, you're not the silliest, dumbest mistakes you've ever made. You're way, way more than that. Okay? Hey, you're not the silliest, dumbest mistakes you've ever made. You're way, way more than that. Okay? Okay, thank you. Appreciate your call. Can we send her something, John? Yeah. Let's send her one of your books. Everything. Building an Unanxious Life, FPU, Every Dollar. Kit and Caboodle.

I think that's a good start, and she'll let us know if she needs anything else. That's right. We're here for you, Skyler. We got you, Skyler. Hang on the line. We'll pick up and get you those resources. This is The Ramsey Show. James is up next in Dallas, Texas. James, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, guys.

Thanks. I really appreciate y'all having me on. Absolutely. How can we help? So my question is, I'm going to give you a little background. Me and my wife just paid off about $550K in debt. Yeah, dude! Whoa. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. It actually all worked out really great.

I think God had his hands in there mixing some things up and opening some doors for us. So we're relocating. The reason I went to sell is we're relocating to Austin, opening up a Chick-fil-A out there. We have about 80K left in debt other than our house that we live in currently, and it's about two and a half hours away from Austin where we're relocating to. My question is, do we sell the house to pay off the remaining mortgage and then the 80K in debt because we have a little bit of equity, or do we continue to rent it out? Because I feel like we don't have too much longer to go on that mortgage if we can just throw money at it once we get there. What are your thoughts on that? Well, I'll tell you, regardless of if you have consumer debt, regardless of if you have consumer debt,

regardless of if you have the mortgage still left on it, I would tell you to sell it. Okay. I would not keep it as a rental and live two and a half hours away and be a long-distance landlord. And the easy way to look at this is this way. If you lived in Austin, would you buy an investment property in Dallas, Texas? No. No, I wouldn't. And so I would sell it and be done with it. And

guess what? It's also going to leapfrog you through the baby steps, get rid of this debt, put you in a stronger place financially and give you less headache and more peace. Yeah, that's where we were leaning towards. We just didn't know, you know, with it being so close, do we be long distance tenants or is that too much risk to hold? I don't know if it's too much risk. You're about to run a Chick-fil-A. I mean, you manage 1,000 employees and all kinds. I don't think it's the risk thing.

I think it's just like… The hassle factor. Yeah, it's just an absurd way to live your life, right? It's just chaos. And I would ask for what, right? Like for what? Kind of how it's been. And if you want to buy real estate down the road in the future, you want to pay cash for

an investment property near you, go for it. You'll be able to do that. What kind of money will you guys be making? About 200K. And that's with my wife and I included. Awesome. Are you going to be an owner operator? No, not currently. That is the goal. So two or three years from now, we're going to be owner-operator? No, not currently. That is the goal. So two or three years from now, we're going to try to pursue relocating back closer to family where we are now and buying a Chick-fil-A nearby. Awesome.

I'm thinking that it's looking like we should be able to do that. Of course, it's not guaranteed. Yeah, I just didn't know. A Chick-fil-A is like, I mean, it's Fort Knox to try to get a Chick-fil-A. You can't just go buy one up. Yeah, no, but he's part of the Navy SEALs. You're part of the gang that gets married every six months or two years or five years, right, that opens them up. They say it's harder to get into a Chick-fil-A than it is to get into Harvard is what they say in the Chick-fil-A world.

I believe it. Yeah. I just thought of four jokes that I didn't make, by the way. I want everyone in America to know I'm wisening up here. That's called maturity. I'm maturing right before your eyes. But yeah, dude. And here's the other thing. Is there a possibility that you rent for a year in Austin before you settle out everything? Yes, that's our idea. We're going to go scope out the area, rent, save up some cash so that we do

have enough down payment when we decide if we're going to either stay there or relocate back. That's kind of up in the air, but renting is our main priority going down there. Wait, hold on. So you might go down to Austin for a year, open this place up six months. I know you never know how long these deployments are going to be, but then- It'll definitely be two years minimum. We have another store opening up about, that'll turn us into a multi-restaurant. The operator will be a multi-restaurant operator and so I'll be over both of those. Okay, great. And we're trying to

for sure be there two years. Three to five is when I will most likely try to apply depending on how ready we feel. Yeah, I would sell the house. Okay. Think about it this way. That's another presidential election from now.

Who knows, man? Yes. Who knows? Right? So I would cross that bridge when we get there. Absolutely. It's amazing. And once you guys are in a better financial spot,

be sure to send John and I some sandwiches. We'd appreciate it. Yeah, there's this elusive, we've got to get, just, you know the card I need, James. You know the card I need. There's a special card. I know what it is. There's a special card.

Hook a brother up. All right. Francois is in Los Angeles up next. How can we help, Francois? Hey, how's it going? Great. What's going on? Well, I live here.

Dave will be very happy. I have zero car payments in the family. I've never paid for a car except cash. So everything we own is owned. If I can't put the cash down, I don't drive it home. Wonderful. It's a great way to live. Yeah. So I have a small, very small business compared to some of the guys that call in. I have a marine repair shop here in San Pedro, California. I've been open for seven years. Pretty much started it from scratch. I'm 50 years old, so I have about 25 years

experience. And the business grew very quickly for the first three, four years. You know, we're born again Christians, so we don't rip people off and mess around with their money and um i've been renting for the last few years uh two years ago we moved into a big property because my landlady sold and it's literally the only property we could find and it it has been very hard on us because the rent tripled uh the gross at the time was around $150,000, and that was just me on my own. And we have a serious amount of demand. I went through eight people last year at my shop who came in and tried to fit in. And from drinking problems to just incredibly bad at trying to do the job or just late or not on time.

It's impossible to find skilled, responsible labor. And I am in a position where we've been verging on bankruptcy the last two years because I've been trying to build the business up and train people who have just turned out to be pretty awful. So what is the business making today as it stands with the work that you can take on? I'm stagnant. I think I am floating between around $130,000 to $150,000 a year, which is about as much as I can cope with mentally and physically doing this alone. So you're maxed out on your own at that level without good help? I'm maxed out. If I had one extra pair of hands, I could probably almost double that. Okay. And

what's your rent now? My rent currently is about 5,600. Yeah, it's high. I mean, I have literally, so initially when we moved in, the property was about three, four times the size of my previous. And I thought, okay, there's always a demand for storage, so we'll try storage. And that literally did not happen. I don't know why. Then I tried boat rentals. We invested in some boats to get into the boat rental thing, and it's just been very slow. I'm currently sitting here with about $100,000, $120,000 worth of inventory that we've

been trying to sell, but the economy has just been so, so poor. So we're asset poor. The rent's been killing me. It's been very hard to find qualified, not even, I don't care about certification. I just need someone that can A, pitch up on time and do the job. Just a warm body at this point would do. Hey, Francois, what was your take-home pay last year? Oh, I don't even want to know. I did my tax return for 2023, which was the worst. And I'm not going to lie, it was $11,000.

Okay, don't lie, dude. There's no shame here. We're just three dudes just sitting around having nachos. Shocking. So after all expenses you were making like five dollars an hour somewhere around there yeah it was brutal can you sell this thing and and go get a job job um you're killing yourself dude you're dying i know i know i know and i know this is a dream and i know you have to um yeah you have to grieve it

and you have to be sad about it. But dude, you are dying. I've thought about it. I've, I've, uh, contacted some brokers because we only have five star reviews.

I'm one, let me just put it this way. I'm one of two shops in this town. The other shop, the guy's a total crook. But listen, but listen, Francois,

this is not an indictment of you or your character or your business. You're a good guy. I get it. You're a good man. It didn't work I get it. You're a good man. It didn't work. It's not working. And your soul, like you having a stroke for $11,000. If it's $11 million, I might trade my brain for $11 million.

Well, that was, the thing is like the last year I probably did better than that. Well, but even $10,000 or $25,000, that's still half of what you can go make at Starbucks. You know what I mean? Between the California tax and the sole tax, you need to get out of this thing. Yeah, just get out and exhale, get a fresh start, and then go do something that's going to bring your family some income, but also some peace, man. And you've got 25 years experience. I think anyone would be lucky to have you. And so I'd be looking around your industry to see who's hiring and what value you could bring to them. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Reminder that this is the last segment for this hour,

unless you jump over to the Ramsey Network app. It's the only place to get full episodes of The Ramsey Show. You can download it for free using the link in the show notes or just search Ramsey Network in your app store. If you're on radio, stay tuned. The show will continue as promised. Well, John, sometimes on the show, we don't know if the callers actually follow through with what we told them to do or what they said they were going to do. And so we had a caller earlier named Maria who was asking, hey, should I cut up my credit cards? I'm working on paying off these debts. I got most of them paid off. Is it going to affect me if I cut them up?

We said, no, go ahead and cut them up. Do it now. She said, well, I'm on my way home. I don't have the cards with me, but I will. And I said, promise, send me a DM with a video of you cutting them up. And she delivered. She slid into George's DMs head first. That's the kind of DM I want to see.

Just cut up credit cards. So here we go. We have the clip that she sent in. Let's the kind of DM I want to see. Just cut up credit cards. There you go. So here we go. We have the clip that she sent in. Let's play it if you're watching. Yeah, yeah. Oh, beautiful. The Capitol.

One AMA. This is what I want to see. American Express. There was like seven cards. Can we play that again? I think there's like seven or eight cards in this pile. Yeah, there's a huge pile. Remember she said she had nine or something like that?

She had a bunch of them. Oh my goodness. That's so beautiful. There's no site more beautiful than just a pile of credit cards. There you go. That represents freedom. You're breaking free from broke. You're bucking the system. We love to see it. So thank you for that, Maria. All right. Switching gears, John. One of the top things that you talk about is wills and insurance. I do talk about wills a lot.

And that's just off air, just behind the scenes when we hang out. I'm paranoid about insurance, and I just can't wrap my head around people who don't have a will, which is 70-something percent of Americans, which is staggering to me. And so I want to cover some top myths about wills and insurance real quick just to clear the air, help people understand the importance of this, and it is crucial for effective estate planning. And no, you will not die sooner by talking about this stuff.

I'm going to be your hype man. Oh, good. I've always wanted one of those. On the background, some of these are. If I was a rapper, you'd be on stage with me, hyping me up. You'd be like, who's that guy? That would be me. Myth number one, young or single individuals don't need a will.

Here's the reality. Regardless of age or marital status, if you're an adult with any assets at all, a bank account, property, a pet, a will ensures that your wishes are honored after your passing. That's all it does. Without a will, it's a mess. The distribution of your belongings is determined by the state, aka the government, which may not align with your preferences. They're not great at divvying this stuff out, dealing with it in a timely manner. So if you want it done the way you want it done, get a will in place. It's super easy to do. Myth number two, creating a will is super expensive.

Reality, attorney fees for drafting a will can range from $300 to $1,000, and there's way more affordable options now with online services like Mama Bear Legal Forms. They've been a great partner with us. That's who I have my will through, and they offer legit wills that are done by lawyers at a fraction of the cost. Another myth, John, identity theft isn't a significant concern. Identity theft is a crime, according to Dwight Schrute. According to Dwight Schrute. Yeah, it's a growing issue.

Get this. In 2023 alone, 15 million Americans experienced identity theft. And that resulted in a total loss of $23 billion. That's a 13% increase from the previous year, and I think that number is going to keep going up over time as we deal with more digital life, the digital world with crypto and AI, and you have your info and 19 more accounts, and so you got to get identity theft protection, and that's the next myth. People think that's unaffordable. Individual plans typically cost between 10 bucks and 40 bucks a month. Family plans range from 13 to 60 bucks monthly. Listen, your subscriptions add up to more than what it

would cost to get this protection. So get that in place. And finally, the last myth, if you can rebuild your home with cash, homeowners insurance isn't necessary. Yikes. Even if you have sufficient savings to rebuild after a disaster, which by the way, 99.9% of people don't. Purchasing homeowner's insurance is very wise. It's going to protect your savings. It mitigates financial risk, allows you to preserve wealth for other purposes. Dave Ramsey has homeowner's insurance on his property and every single investment property he owns because for the price you pay for that premium, it is totally worth the insurance company taking that risk instead of you.

So there you go. If you're unsure you have the right protection in place, we have a free coverage checkup that makes this super easy. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash checkup or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Well worth your while to get that coverage checkup. ramseysolutions.com slash checkup.

And, dude, I always feel like, especially when you and I are on together, George, the Instagram, YouTube-y, influencer-y world is so full of

people who are just not telling the truth. They're just honest. Shysters. That's what I call them. Just liars. Just complete liars. So here's the deal.

Just for people at home, George and I both have a will we both have identity theft protection and we both have homeowners insurance because we're not insane let me say it that way I don't like I just I can't this is stuff that we do in our own home

so we're not trying to sell you of something we're just telling you dude this gives us peace for our wives and for our kids. And God bless you. Get a will, people, and get identity theft protection. And please, please cover your biggest asset

with homeowners insurance. Beautifully said. RamseySolutions.com slash checkup is the place to go. Get it done. Do not delay. Jenna is up next in Rockford, Illinois. What's going on, Jenna?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. So my husband and I, we paid off our mortgage at the end of the year. Yeah, and then a week later, he found out he was getting laid off. Oh my goodness. Good timing, I guess. Can we cheer for a second? We could cheer. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's heartbreaking, and so we'll weep with you, but we'll also cheer. You don't have a house payment. Yeah.

So he will be working until June. That was so disingenuous. Okay, I'm sorry. I'm talking over you. Go ahead. No, that's okay. So he'll be working until Juneune and then um he'll be done so we have been uh job hunting and that's a fun area to get into again but we have a 401 and an hs in hsa that we're maxing out um and i'm wondering should we pull back on that and start

kind of saving up some more money on the side. We do have a six-month emergency fund fully funded. We also have like a family vacation we were hoping to go on in the fall, but should these things be like, should we just stop doing that? Should we pull back? I would say you don't need to pause investing right now. You have a six-month emergency fund, and then if you have vacation funds, other sinking funds that are for more fun stuff, I would just hold on that until we know that he has stable income beyond June. And then once he has that job lined up and he gets that paycheck, let's push play. Let's

restart the sinking funds. Let's take the vacation. But for right now, it's not an emergency situation where you need to just pause everything you're doing, don't invest a dime, and just stack up cash. Because you have a six-month runway beyond June where your expenses are going to be covered, plus the vacation funds. Okay. So do we just kind of keep living normally as if he's going to get a job and that we have income coming? I would tighten up the budget. I would not be living luxuriously during this time. I would look at the budget and say, we're going to live on a bare-bones budget. We're going to keep investing,

but we're going to cut things where we can. We're not going to eat out as much. We're going to just live like we know this job is going to end, because it will. And I hope that by June, he's got something lined up. That's some pretty incredible runway you guys have. There's a lot of blessings here that you guys are in the financial spot you're in, that the job wasn't an immediate loss,

that he's getting paid through June, right? Yeah, yeah. And on top of it, we're hoping for his severance. Good. So we're hopeful and we're so, so thankful for this opportunity. What kind of work was he doing? He's an IT. So, okay, great. Surely he'll be able to find something. It's a little bit dry out there right now. Uh, we've been looking, we've have a few headhunters that have been helping us, but, uh, it's been, uh, what, almost two months of looking and it's been a little bit scary to see that there's not as much out there as we thought there was.

Yeah. Yeah. Can I, can I ask a question of George, Jenna, on your behalf? Yeah. All right, George, for those of us who run a little bit hotter when it comes to being anxious, what are your thoughts about taking the money I was putting in my 401, in my HSA, and maybe just socking it away in a high-yield savings account

until this thing clears? And then once I can make a lump contribution, if we find another job in five months, but again, I don't know how much money that's actually going to be practically, but if it ends up being a $25,000 or $30,000 that I would have invested out and I've got it and I have to have it. Is that bad form? No, it's not bad form. The HSA, you could do that with the 401k. You're not going to be able to just lump some back in because it has to come from those paychecks each time. So you could ratchet up your 401k investing to make up for it. So if you wanted

to take down the HSA for now, you could do that. And again, there's going to be severance. They have the vacation money on top of the six months. That probably is looking like closer to 12 months. That's fair. I feel pretty good about it, especially the fact they have no mortgage payment. So that's where I'm like, they have more wiggle room than they think now. There you go. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. From Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel here with

Dr. John Deloney, taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Chris is going to kick us off in Phoenix, Arizona. What's going on, Chris? Hi there. Thank you for taking the call. Sure. My question today is do you all personally own any physical precious metals, gems, have visas, or even ammunition for the purpose of protecting against societal collapse

great question i got just a guy here to answer that the only guy i know who's actually mentioned the word societal collapse dr john deloney um i guess tell me what's going on in your heart man well um thank you very much for taking the call again and you know i have two young girls i'm an aspiring uh grandfather i'm pretty young i'm looking at the national debt and how we're really uh getting into significant debts and i could imagine in several decades uh it being unmanageable and perhaps collapsing the dollar and i I don't think Trump or Musk can fix it. And even if they could, I don't think that could be sustained long enough to where, you know, you wouldn't cause huge civil unrest. So.

As a guy who's a fellow worrier and a guy who's a fellow looking to the future to always try to read the tea leaves so I can start doing things now, right? I'm with you. And the national debt, it super concerns me. And somebody sent me a video of Ronald Reagan doing a speech before he was president. And he was talking about the national debt and so was the next president and on like so it's been something that's been in the air and in the water for a long time it's a problem that's got to get solved um i also saw a thing today um that waymu has like 2 000 automated cars that are about to start doing like Uber type driving in your area in Phoenix, right?

Why do I bring that up? Dude, who knows what 10, 20, 30 years are going to look like from now? And what I do know is this, that when you gin up a story about, you have confirmed in your mind about a tragedy that's coming your way even 20, 30, 40 years away, your body responds as though it's happening right now. And it takes you away from A, critical thinking in the current moment, and it takes you away from being present

from those precious little girls that you want to preserve their livelihood and their way of life into the future. And so here's a couple of ways that I have dealt with this. Number one, going back to the basics. As my friend, Dr. Lane Norton says, I don't step over $100 bills to pick up nickels anymore. So before I'm going to get into precious metals and bullets, I'm going to say, do I owe anybody any money? As for me and my family, are we actually free?, I'm going to say, do I owe anybody any money? As for me and my family, are we actually free? And I'm going to work really hard to do that, right? Before I get

into some like biohacks, I'm going to go to the gym and I'm going to start exercising and I'm going to start eating right. I'm going to start there and then I'll start hacking around the edges. The second thing is, is the data on collapses. One of the greatest hedges, if not the greatest hedge you can have is robust, connected relationships with your neighbors. They trust you, you trust them, and you all solve problems together. And that doesn't get a lot of press and you can't buy that off of Amazon. And so if you are truly, truly concerned about the US dollar going away and the world imploding, really get to know the people around you. Have them over for dinner. Become

friends with them. Talk about values. Go fishing together. You don't have any water in Phoenix, so I don't know. Maybe go for a walk in the desert. But that's not sexy, and that's not cool, and that's not in a John Wick movie. But that's the truth and that's not cool and that's not in a John wick movie, but that's the, that's the truth and the reality. Then no, I don't have hidden jewels in my backyard. Um, I don't have,

I have lots of ammunition, but I'm, I travel a lot for hunting and stuff like that. So for other reasons, yeah, not for apocalypse stuff. Right. And I've had the misfortune slash blessing of being in active shooter situations.

I have been to situations where in the aftermath of somebody dying by gunshot, and it's not what it looks like on TV. And so this idea that I'm good, man, I'll tell you what, it's different in real life. I've also been in some SWAT hostage negotiation training where I was the bad guy. Multiple times I've done this and it ends terribly for me because they're good at what they do and I'm not.

I just watch a lot of movies. So I'm telling you all that to tell you this. Be present where you are. Pick up the $100 bills in front of you. Make sure your family's healthy. Make sure you all love each other and you're connected and you'll have dinner together as much as you can around the table. Make sure you invite your neighbors over and y'all know each other. Do I have a deep freezer with about a year's worth of meat in it? Absolutely I do. Right. So I'm a little bit, okay, maybe. And that proved pretty useful during COVID. Right.

So there's some little bitty things that are, I would call, rational that make sense. If the U.S. dollar dissolves, your problems will be existentially bigger than, do I have a jar of jewels buried in my backyard? It will be such an epic Wild West scenario that any sort of fantasy to try to think through what you would do and how you'd handle it is futile it's a waste of time and energy it's just a distraction from being present with your daughters what i would recommend is um taking a news fast for the next 60 days just get off turn it off and do something that's going to be both super boring and drive you a little bit mad and that will give you peace that you might not have had in a while and that is get some coloring

books and start coloring with your daughters get a small wrestling mat from academy and start wrestling with your daughters y'all just have fun go outside of spring starts to i mean y'all are in a perpetual summer right but as spring starts to come on board, y'all are in a perpetual summer, right? But as spring starts to come on board, take your daughters out for hikes in the mountains and become present where you are. And that's not a panacea and that's not me putting my head in the sand. It's just getting out of that anxious, anxious, anxious, anxious state right into a world that I can actually impact, which is my family, my home right now. You get what I'm saying? Yes, I do. And that is the least sexy, unfun, unlike, yeah, it's good. It's the least of all of that. But this is just me trying to

be as practical as I can. And the more you talk about it, Chris, the more your phone listens and then feeds you ads saying, buy gold, it's all coming crashing down. And here's Robert Kiyosaki telling you, you know, like I've seen it all. And so the truth is when you're talking about societal collapse, you're saying every company in America goes bankrupt, goes to zero. That's what would have to happen for the stock market to collapse and for us to have economic collapse. And if that does happen, gold's not going to solve it. We'd go back to the bartering system, trading for food, water, fuel, and some ammunition.

Yeah, pelts will. Food. And as Dave Ramsey said, at no time has gold been used as a medium of exchange in a crashed economy since the Roman Empire. So I don't own any gold, and I think if things go down and we make decisions based on fear,

we end up poorer, not richer. And so I avoid precious metals. I don't encourage anyone to buy them. If you want to have some for fun, like you would buying some crypto with some fun money, knock yourself out. But I wouldn't use it

as a hedge against anything. Is that helpful at all, brother? Yes, that helps a lot. Thank you so much for answering that. Hey, let me tell you this. Thank you for being a dad that's looking to the future and that's concerned about the direction of our country, about the way people are handling their business.

Thank you for being that kind of dad. And then let's close our front door and say, okay, what can I do here? Let's make my bed first. Let's clean up my household, and then let's go to our neighbors, and then we'll go from there. Thank you so much, man. We'll be right back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Hey, if you're a business owner or you know someone who is, you know that running a business is difficult. And some days the challenges pile up, the fear creeps in, and you're left wondering if you're even doing it right. It can feel overwhelming. And that's why Dave Ramsey wrote a new book called Build a Business You Love, where he unpacks how he took his business from a card table in his living room to a $250 million business. It's a proven system for business owners to grow faster, avoid common mistakes, and create something they're proud of. It's basically the baby steps

for running a business. And you can pre-order it right now for $29.99, and you'll get a bunch of bonus items, including instant access to the Entree Leadership Hiring Playbook, early access to the e-book, and the enhanced audio book read by Dave Ramsey himself. Pre-order today at ramsaysolutions.com.store or click the link in the description wherever you're listening. Jared joins us up next in Spokane, Washington. What's going on, Jared? Yes.

Hey, how can we help? Hey, so first, thanks for taking my call. So my wife and I have been practicing the baby steps for five years now. We've gone, we're at step seven for the last, yeah, for the last two years, we paid off our house two years ago. Incredible. How old are you two? 35 and 36. Goodness, you're strange. I love it.

Way to go. Yeah, it's been pretty amazing. And so for the last, so my wife and I do business together. And so our business created a 401k and we've been maxing out our 401k for the last two, three years. Um, and my question is like, I mean, I love maxing out my 401k. I love, um, investing, but investing in the stock market, but like, I would like to invest in other places as well. Um, and I'm wondering like, if that next step is real estate or what your suggestion would be. Yeah, you've got a lot of options. What's your household income? We do about $240 a year.

Way to go. It's awesome. So there's other retirement type accounts that you could invest in. One would be doing like a backdoor Roth IRA. Have you looked into that? Correct. We have a little bit, but we're not executing it. We both maxed out our Roth IRAs, but not a backdoor Roth IRA. Okay. Because there is an income limit when it comes to the Roth IRA. So I'm not sure if you guys are creeping up against that or not quite yet. So I'd look into that, and if you are, you could do a backdoor where you're just funding it with after-tax money and then converting it over to a Roth account. The other option is an HSA, a health savings account. You can actually invest into one of those.

Do you guys have access to one through a high-deductible health plan? I don't believe we do. I'd have to look through my healthcare provider. Okay. I'd look into one of those because the HSA is a really cool tax advantage, triple tax advantage for your health costs. But then actually when you are, I believe 65, you can use that money for non-medical expenses and kind of use it as a traditional 401k. So that's another option that's tax advantage to look into before moving to non-tax advantage options like just a taxable brokerage account that you could just open yourself and invest there. That's another option

as well. And you can access that money with no penalty before retirement. You'll just pay taxes on the gains. And then lastly would be real estate. Like you mentioned, if you guys, you have a knack for real estate, something that you enjoy, Dave Ramsey loves real estate. And so that would be a great place to move into. But here's the deal. You'd be wanting to pay cash for any investment property you purchased. So that would mean saving up, cash flowing the whole thing, getting, you know, which will help cash flow the next one and the next one and the next one. So it really starts to domino effect over time. But the first one's the hardest because coming up with, you know, $300,000, $400,000 for a property and making

sure that you get a deal on the buy, that's the difficult part. For sure. Yeah. So for starters, if you just wanted to go, hey, we're going to do the backdoor Roth IRA, we're going to do a taxable brokerage account. That's where we're going to go for now. And then maybe one day down the line, we'll buy some real estate. But if we're planning to purchase real estate, the liquid money that we have to purchase that real estate would be best held in just a high-yield savings account? It depends on the timeline. If it was going to be within the next two, three, four years, a high-yield savings account? It depends on the timeline. If it was going to be within the next, you know, two, three, four years, a high yield savings account is great. But if you're talking about,

hey, this is a seven year dream, then you could invest that money in a taxable brokerage account and just park it in some index funds. I mean, that's what Dave Ramsey does. He gets a big, you know, check a royalty check for a book. He's just going to go, I'm going to park that in an index fund. And when I see a good piece of real estate, I'm going to cash out and buy some real estate. Okay. Yeah. And Jared, I'm going to gift you a ticket to our Investing Essentials virtual event happening next week, because this is exactly the kind of stuff we're going to be talking about. And so I'll spare you the 199 bucks, even though you have it, because I like you and I want to see you win. So hang on the line and our team's going to pick up and make sure that we get you a link to that virtual event next week. Great question

though. Oh my goodness. Imagine if this is the world we lived in, John, a bunch of 35 year olds with paid off houses saying, Hey, how do I max out beyond the baby steps? What else can I do here? It's a good problem to have. I heard a married couple that's figured out how to work together. I don't know how that works. Yeah, that's just a nice byproduct. I'm going to have him write a guest chapter in my next book. I want to learn about that. All right, let's go out to Austin in Nashville, just down the road from us. What's going on, Austin?

Hi, how's it going, everyone? Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can John and I help? So my question is, I purchased my home in Spring Hill, Tennessee in 2020, got a great interest rate, and I have very few expenses. I'm single. I just turned 30, and I make a decent income. And so my question is, I would like to maintain my home as a rental property in the future and purchase more properties,

is it smart to try to pay off my home as quick as humanly possible via the baby steps? Or would that money be better off in an investment account or something along those lines that could outpace that three and a half percent interest rate I have on my home? Well, there's two different things at play here. One is the math equation on paper and the other one is reality and psychology and emotions and for that i would say yes if you're going to follow the ladder then paying off your home aggressively is the best way to go now if you watch any tiktok or talk to you know some financial guru out there they going to say, why would you pay off a low interest mortgage when you can invest in the market? That's the smart thing to do. But man, freeing up that mortgage payment, it does so much for you. And this is just what I've done. It's what John Deloney has done. So we just tell you

what we would do if we were in your shoes. I would pay off that mortgage. Okay. And then I guess the second half of that is, should I pay off this mortgage before investing in the next home and keeping this current home as a investment property? This is the advice you're not going to want to hear. I wouldn't recommend going out and getting another mortgage for an investment property. I would wait until you pay off your own house and then save up and pay cash for an investment property. And that's going to feel like a thousand years in your fast paced mind. You're not getting behind. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Cause that's where, uh, you know, where my mind goes is, you know, the longer I

wait, the more, you know, inflation will take effect and so on. You've got an itchy trigger finger. Bro, I totally get it. I want you to to to think about this in a different way unlike millions and millions and millions of americans you will have a paid for house in a city with an expected growth rate over the next hundred years no one can take away your house and so yes it's going to feel like well inflation in this dude turn the news off and sleep soundly in your paid for home okay and i know that doesn't sound cool it doesn't make for a good tiktok video but bro you will have peace i don't care what the interest rate is what was your what's your interest rate uh 3.25 i think mine was two and a quarter and i went and paid

my house off we went my wife and i went baby step two mode to get paid off. I could care less what it is. I just didn't want anybody else telling me what I have to do with my life. I'm so sick of it. And dude, when you get your own house and you can buy a real estate property with cash, maybe it is a little bit more money, dude, but you're never going to borrow money for play again because you're going to peace, man. So good. That's the way to do it. And you're not going to be leveraged going, well, I made $100 net profit,

I think, because I had to pay the mortgage and hope the tenant stayed and paid. There's just a lot more risk and a lot less peace when you do it that way. And so I'm rooting for you to do it the peaceful way, even if it takes a longer time. Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show. Today's Ramsey Network app question comes from Ava. She says, my partner and I have been together 12 years and have two young sons. We own a house worth $450,000 and owe $200,000 on it. I'm on baby step two and I've paid off a $5,000 loan and have $23,000 left on a car loan. I earn $42,000 and think my partner brings home about $55,000. He has an estranged wife who asked him to start divorce proceedings, but he won't because he doesn't want to pay for it. I want us

to get married, but he does not want to marry me. We have life insurance on each other, but he refuses to make a will. I feel like I have no choice except to leave him. It breaks my heart for my boys, but I'm afraid we are at risk of financial ruin if we stay. I pause the baby steps to start stacking up money in case I end up moving out. I have no one else to move out a long, long time ago. I would have told you don't move in with a married man. Don't have babies in my house with a married man. I would have told you don't have babies with somebody who has so little regard for his ex-wife that he won't even honor her with a divorce certificate.

I would tell you to stay away from a man who refuses to make a will because that's a man who is unwilling to face reality and who is telling you with his actions, I don't care what happens to you after I'm dead. I simply don't care about you enough to even fill out a piece of paper that says, I want to make sure you're okay. Gosh, I guess I can keep going. Your heart, if you were my sister, I would tell you, you yes i understand your heart is broken for your

boys but your boys have been living in an alt universe and you've been the one who've been trying to have this fantasy household together and it's never been real and so um i don't say this lightly in fact that's it goes against one of my core values, which is I never tell somebody you need to get out and do something unless it's violence related. But you're not married. You need to go. You need to go. And probably you need to get an attorney and figure out custody. No, 100% you need to get an attorney, figure out custody, figure out how to sell this house and get the equity out of it. And there's going to have to be some sort of child support and you need to figure out how all that's going to get mapped out. And you have to understand you're playing with a man who does not care about you, period. He cares about himself.

And because of that, this is a business transaction. You're going to have to get an attorney that's going to be an advocate for you. And there's a lot of great, amazing attorneys out there that will walk with you through this hellscape that you've co-created. But that's what I tell you if me or my sister, George. I'm just looking at the numbers going, you can't afford to keep this car. It's $23,000 left on the loan. You make $42,000. That car is gone. Car is gone.

House is gone. You probably can't afford to stay in the house, even with child support. It's not going to be enough to carry the mortgage and carry the weight. You're going to need to go find a place for the boys. And it's just going to be a messy time of, you know, this turned into a business transaction gone wrong. And I'm so sorry that you're going through this. And I would get people in your corner who can cheer you on and get professionals in your corner who can help like attorneys real estate pros tax pros financial advisors you need to assemble people around you who have your best interest in at

heart which probably has not happened in the last 12 years yeah what a mess what an absolute mess let this be a warning to everyone listening don't do this kind of stuff don't play house thinking it'll all just work out because it's love no No, this is what happens on the other end. People are harmed by it. There's consequences. And the problem here is there's not a great exit strategy. It's just a huge, huge, like, bird's nest on a fishing rod. It's just a huge tangled up mess. And who knows if she's on the deed and who's on the mortgage.

I mean, this could just get messier and messier as you untangle it. Yeah. Oh, so sorry, Ava. What a mess. All right, let's go out it. Yeah. Oh, so sorry, Ava. What a mess. All right, let's go out to the phones. Eric is in Austin, Texas. How can we help, Eric? Hey, guys.

I appreciate you guys taking my call. Sure. What's going on? Hey, I'm in a bit of a pickle with my wife. We're just kind of like entering this next chapter in our lives. Quick rundown. I just finished serving the this next chapter in our lives. Quick rundown. I just finished serving the last 10 years in the Army. Just got out last July, and I immediately jumped into the next career field,

which is truck driving now. So the Army brought us out here to Texas. We're loving every bit of it. Got to own our first home. Kind of got a grip on our finances, you know, finally making some headway, paid off some debt, over $17,000 in credit card debt. Next up is the car loan that I'm trying to knock out. And my wife, we're both from California, same city.

Now my wife is just urging so badly to go back home to California. She wants to move. I mean, we haven't had any kids yet. All our family's there except for my mother. My mother's out here now, but that's our next step is, you know, starting a family, raising a family, and she wants to do it back in California. Man, that's tough, tough, tough when mama wants to move, huh? Yeah.

I grew to love, you know, the slower lifestyle and the more cost-effective and living out here in Texas, especially catching up with my finances. I grew up with not knowing anything and being so bad with my finances. And now I got caught up and now I'm able to breathe. And now she's just waiting for any day to go back to California. I feel like I'm just going to go back from the very beginning of just being in debt or just barely making ends meet. So I'm always weary of either or conversations and I always want to get to the thing behind the thing whenever possible, okay?

And so off the top of my head, A, wanting to have babies and be around family, right? That's a real thing, right? Sometimes there's not a thing behind that thing. Sometimes that's just real. The picture I have is there's aunts and uncles and grandparents everywhere and moms and dads, and that's just what I want to have happen, right? So there is that. There's also the idea that maybe you, maybe her, maybe you both had a picture of what your marriage and your life was going to look like when you got out of the army. You did service. And, bro, on behalf of me and George and our families, I want to say just thank you. Thank you.

You went and did that service. And both of you had a picture of what things were going to look like. And often there's feelings associated with what that picture is going to look like. And often there's feelings associated with what that picture is going to look like. And when those feelings don't match up with the new reality, then it's easy to run. What's one of the things let's move, let's do something else. Let's build something. Let's buy something. Let's go across the country. And so I always want to stop and ask, what are we going to run? What are we running from? What do we think about our lives living in another place is going to solve for us? Because the,

the honest truth is y'all will go with you. Your marriage fights will go with you. Your marriage, the awesome parts of your marriage will go with you. Your financial problems, financial problems. They'll go with you. Right.

And so I always want to ask that question. What do you think moving is going to solve? And then underneath that, often people want to just go home because they're lonely. And it might be that she wants to establish a, doesn't have a community. She's got nobody and you're on the road and she's running

around like running gunning and it might be that, man, we've got to give me six months for us to have some friends over, some family and let's get reconnected. Let's get connected here for the first time, and maybe that helps. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. That's true.

And I know that's a big deal because she has got a lot of time at home, wandering, and it's lonely. It definitely is lonely, and I hate having her in that position. That's why I understand, and there's no hit. I understand. I can't ask for anything else from my wife other than wanting to be around family while we're raising our family. What's your household income? Right now, it's up and down with trucking because I just got into it, but right now I'm around like $115,000, $117,000 a year.

Awesome. What's she doing? She's a digital marketer, coordinator for a digital marketing company. She makes around $35,000 a year. Awesome. What's she doing? She's a digital marketer, coordinator for a digital marketing company. She makes around $35,000 a year. But I just want to note that with my income, that's including my VA disability that I am receiving from the truck.

Maybe bring it in around $60,000 starting now. I just started six months. Here's the deal. Don't tell yourself I can't ask anything else of her because i don't think that's fair for her or for you but i want you to get beneath the the question like here's what i want here's what i need and i also think it's very fair to say okay you want to move home i want to stay here both. Both of our wants are cool. We have a math problem right now. We owe money. We don't make enough money to live there. And I'm not willing to

have babies and bring them into another scary chained up life that I grew up with. I'm not doing it. And so y'all can sit down and say, okay, what is a math problem that might get us to either stay here or to go to California, that's where I would start with the actual concrete challenge that you have, which y'all can't afford to live there. But the existential stuff, man, get beneath the question. Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 10, 23, and 24. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess Desmond Tutu said, It's a good word. Let's go out to Eric up next in Sacramento, California.

What's going on, Eric? Hi, good afternoon. I just have a brief question for you guys, and that is I take care of my stepdad, and I myself have no more debt, but he has $13,000 combined between a personal loan from his brother-in-law and credit card debt. And I've been working on the credit card debt for quite a long time. And I haven't worked on the loan because I'm trying to get some help from him, and I'm not. Why are you working on his debts? the loan because I'm trying to get some help from him and I'm not. Why are you working on his debts? Well, originally when we started living together, it was one of those things where we kind of needed each other in terms of like, I didn't have anything and I had the job, but he had the place to live, and he had a credit card, and things kind of spiraled out of there.

We've had life events happen. I got in a car accident a couple years ago. We had to put the whole thing on the credit card because we didn't have – the insurance didn't pay out in time. So you technically don't owe these debts. It's all in his name, but you feel a guilt because it was taken out for your benefit. That, and he took care of my mother to her dying day, and I told him that I felt like I should do the same for him. So you feel like there's no legal obligation, it's a moral obligation, and you want to be

generous and just pay off his debt? Yes, I feel that way. Can I? And I'm kind of in the conundrum as well that I need to take care of myself and my daughter. Yes. So listen, bro, you don't, I'm saying this in a way that I always want to hold very tightly that we honor our parents. Okay. But it's their investment in us as kids is not some sort of 401k for them.

Do you know what I'm saying? I never thought of it that way. He's supposed to take care of your mother. That was his wife. He was supposed to take care of your mother that was his wife he was supposed to take care of you you're his kid do you know what I'm saying yeah I get you I hope that if I ever found myself destitute

and my son was able to he would help out his old man I do I like the idea that I can help out my dad if I ever need to. Okay? But that's different than I'm some sort of an account

that he's going to start withdrawing from. And that's really how it kind of feels lately. Yes. Is that I'm obligated to do this. Is he putting that pressure on you? Or is that you telling yourself a story? I feel like it's me. So he hasn't brought this up at all?

We've discussed it a couple times, and he gets really defensive. You know, where would you be without me and that kind of deal? Yeah, dude. So that sounds like he's pressuring you and guilting you into paying off this debt. gets really defensive you know where would you be without me and that kind of deal yeah so that sounds like he's pressuring you yeah it's predatory and guilting you into paying off this debt here's where you would be not not there yeah ta-da i i hate that crap that hey i did something nice for you son of mine so now you owe me and oh means i'm gonna spend recklessly how about this way if he wants to get on a budget and get a job and

talk finances together all right cool i'll play ball but nobody who says that kind of crap to their kids ever does that people who crap to their kids ever does that. People who talk to their kids like that, they want to spend what they want to spend. They want to lay around. They want to like, Oh, are you,

you get what I'm saying? Well, he's in poor health and he can't work. And I've asked him if he could sell off some of the things that he has. And it's one of those, yeah, I'll do it, but it hasn't happened. There you go.

There you go. So, okay. So he can't work. He's in poor health and but it hasn't happened. There you go. There you go. So, okay, so he can't work. He's in poor health, and you're honoring your dad. That's amazing. Good for you. And I honor him. He can't go get a job.

Cool. But, yes, then the next logical thing is we have a math problem that we have to solve together because we're both in this together. And so what he wants is he wants you to, he wants to not have to participate at all, not get rid of some of his blankies that makes him feel warm and fuzzy, not get rid of some of his toys or tools or whatever you got out there. And, but he wants you to come up with that extra money and that extra support and that extra fill in the blank. Pretty much. Are you also his retirement plan?

I mean, beyond this 13,000, how is this guy going to survive the next 10 years? He can't make his payments. That's the thing, is this problem is bigger than you, and he's trying to put it on you, as if you're the reason for it. As if if this debt was out of his life, his life would be perfect. And it sounds like you don't have it together financially. Where are you at? Because you're saying, hey, I really can't afford to do this. I've just barely started to get my financial situation corrected. I had student loan debt for a long time. And by the grace of God, there was some kind of class action lawsuit.

My loans were canceled. What's left? I opened up a credit card last year, and I paid it off before the interest charges hit. So I have no credit card debt. Do you have any debt whatsoever? No. Do you have any savings? Yeah, I completed baby step one with my $1,000 emergency fund. And I kind of feel like I'm in a holding pattern on those step two

because of the debt situation with my stepdad, as we just discussed. But I'm beginning baby step three and trying to build up that big emergency fund. Are you living with him? Yeah, we have a two-bedroom house. I sleep in the garage because he's got a bedroom and my daughter has a bedroom. And that's kind of taken a toll on our relationship as well. Is it a finished garage or are you just straight up sleeping in a garage? It's a garage with like a little room in it. So I don't know what it was utilized for before we moved in here.

It's a rental. What's your long-term plan? Do you make enough to move out on your own for you and your kid? I make $50,000 a year. And in California, that doesn't go real far, but But I've done the math and I do believe next year I'll be able to move out on my own and that's what I'd like to do is move out with my kid How's he gonna handle that? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how he's gonna handle it at some point You're gonna have to cut that tie because he's gonna drown. He's gonna drag you underwater

Are you paying him rent? I'm paying two-thirds of the rent. That sounds like a lot for a guy sleeping in a garage. I agree. That's what I'm saying. He's going to have to understand that he's got to figure his

finances out because you're not going to be there long-term. Here's the deal. There's not an easy way to have this conversation, brother. It's going to have to be a direct probably in writing as of this date i'm gonna move out and if that thirteen thousand dollars on that credit card is because you were struggling with an addiction or you got you were homeless or you went crazy spending it then i'm gonna tell you i think you should pay it back if that thirteen,000 in that credit card is just your stepdad just kind of out in the wind spending money, then that's not your obligation to pay for. And no amount of guilt tripping is going to make that bill yours.

Only you know what that bill is. Yeah, I look at it a couple times a month. Yeah. I imagine you do. And maybe you're able to say, all right, you know what? I'm going to, I'm going to work an extra job. I'm going to pay this stupid bill off and then I'm going to move out. Yeah. And that's something I'm working on right now. I'm educating myself into being able to build a small personal, a small business on the side. You don't need to be doing that right now. You do not need to be building businesses, brother.

That is how people take one step out of the hell hole you found yourself in and fall right back in it. You need to get two jobs that have health insurance that you can clock in and out of that give you some boundaries and some practice on your life. Okay. Don't start the, I'm going to get in a gig. I'm a site, man, that's too much for you right now. We've got to draw some boundaries with dad first. One step at a time. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. Thank you to everyone listening. We'll be back before you know it.