The Ramsey Show - App - DAVE RANT: Delta Is Screwing Customers, Not Serving Them (Hour 1)

Episode Date: March 1, 2022

Dave Ramsey & George Kamel discuss: How Delta is offering Buy-Now-Pay-Later (and why that hurts the consumer), The right way to take over an aging relative's accounts, How long you should hang onto an underperforming mutual fund. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, George Campbell, Ramsey personality, host of The Fine Print, one of the Ramsey Network's best listened to podcasts. This is my co-host today. As we answer your questions about relationships, mental health, we answer your questions about jobs and careers, we answer your questions about your money and your life and your marriage and your parenting, and

sometimes we're right. The phone number is 888-825-5225 but we are this we are definitely an expert on our opinion so you got that 888-825-5225 thanks for joining us william is in tampa to start this hour hi william how are you um great dave how are you guys better than we deserve, brother. What's up? Hey, well, I am 42 years old, and I make about $48,900, and I shall be debt-free by the end of this summer. Woo-hoo, I'm excited. Yay. And I want to know, I know the emergency fund, you say, is three to six months' worth of expenses, but what about checking and how much should I keep in checking and my emergency fund? Like I said, my income's around $48,000. And I just want to know how much I should keep in both accounts once I'm completely debt-free.

Sure. So, William, do you have a stable income? Yes, sir. I'm a teacher. All right, good. And are you married? No, sir. Single. Okay. So if you're single, you've got a stable job. You can play within that three to six. If you've got a stable job and you want to lean towards the three, that would be fine if you don't have a lot going on there. Do you already have that? You said you're getting out of debt, so you still need to go work on this emergency fund after that, correct? Correct, sir, yes. correct correct yes okay so you once you have that three to six months on the saving side on

the checking side you obviously have to have enough to cover all of your expenses in a monthly budget but i'd also have a little buffer a little foundation maybe 500 bucks where you go all right 500 is basically zero that's kind of your new baseline so that you're not running into you know situation where you're overdrafting yeah Yeah, we do run a zero-based budget. We don't run a zero-based checking account because that just life's too short. Okay. So you do want to keep a pad in there of some kind. And, yeah, I'm with George.

I think three months. And if you just take your paycheck for three times, I know that's not your expenses. That's your income. But that's not going to be that far off of your expenses. That might end up to be four or five months of there. But if you had three months of your pay set aside, that would be probably in the four to five months of expenses set aside once you're debt-free. So, you know, somewhere in there.

The point is to be ready for a rainy day because it's going to rain. Dave, you need to be positive. I'm positive it's going to rain. You need to get ready. All of us have stuff happen. And the weird thing is that if you have a big old emergency fund, it turns an emergency into an inconvenience. So to have less emergencies. It's amazing. My favorite, George, was a hundred years ago. It feels like now it's probably 20 plus years ago. I was teaching a financial peace university class. This lady was sitting in there and she said,

oh, it's a GOK fund. And I'm like, what? And she said, my grandmother raised me. We always had a GOK fund. And I said, what's the GOK fund? She said, well, it took care of anything. Like the car broke, we got the GOK fund. I had to have braces one time.

It was a GOK fund. And she said, my granny always just had the GOK. What is the GOK? God only knows. Oh, I love that. It's a great emergency fund. Yeah, that's good. I like it. So I, I love that. It's a great emergency fund. Yeah, that's good. I like it.

So I'm going with that. But the point is that most people walk around with absolutely no money in one of the wealthiest societies that the world has ever known because we spend like, most people spend like they're in Congress. Yeah. I mean, it's just they're out of freaking control and they don't have any money. And so all we're teaching you is a little bit of common sense here. Carry an umbrella because it's spring and it might rain.

It won't cover the catastrophes, but it covers most of life's emergencies. And the weird thing is when you're 100% debt-free other than your home and you have that emergency fund, baby step three done, you quit having emergencies. Yeah. It turns into an inconvenience and you go, well, I can take better care of my stuff. I can buy higher quality stuff. I can do maintenance on my stuff and all of a sudden you're not dealing with it yeah when i started doing this i didn't even know that part of it because i hadn't experienced that part of it but you're right as you build wealth your car is better and you don't wail the tire blows to get new tires and you don't wail the brakes squeak to get new brakes and you know

that kind of stuff and you know you know, you're right. You're not, you know, everything's not a piece of junk in your life. And so all of a sudden, then crap doesn't break as much. You're not waiting until you need a root canal to get your teeth looked at. That's a scary one. Well, I don't know about that one. Have you had a root canal? Ah, no.

Okay, good. Let's keep it that way. And you know what? I still have my wisdom teeth. Isn't that weird? A lot of wisdom. That's weird. I canal? Ah, no. Okay, good. Let's keep it that way. And you know what? I still have my wisdom teeth. Isn't that weird? A lot of wisdom. That's weird. I think I do, too.

That's why we're so smart, Dave. That's it. That's it. You and me, George. That's the secret, America. We have this cornered right here. All right. Terry's with us in New Hampshire.

Hey, Terry, what's up? Hi, Dave. Hi, George. I'm so excited to talk to you. I'm a huge fan. Well, we're honored. How can we help? Thank you.

I've been listening to you for three years, and I'm out of debt except for my home, which I'll pay off in under four years from now. So thank you for all your help with my finances. Way to go. Thank you so much. So I've been a teacher for 22 years, and I'm thinking about retiring. Things are getting just, as you know, probably just really muddy and confused. So I have a choice to... Oh, wait a minute.

You're like one of those teachers that wanted to teach and stuff. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I wanted to teach kids and not do all the other stuff. Yeah, you wanted to teach kids and they got confused about teaching kids. Okay. I'm with you. Yeah.

So my pension right now would be $1,800 a month for life. My district will also pay me $1,500 a month for five years and allow me to keep my medical insurance until I'm 65. I need to know whether to take that $1,800 a month or take the lump sum, which is right now $110,000, and that's after 22 years of contributing. So I know you always say to take the lump sum, but I use your calculator, and if I were to invest that $1,800 a month, I would come out a lot better. So what do you think, Dave? You'd come out a lot better until you die. Until I die, exactly. And when you die, they keep all the money in the pension and when you pulled it out it's an emergency in a mutual fund in your name and your heirs will get that 110

thousand dollars not it doesn't yet die with you yes they did i don't think that 110 is going to produce 20 000 a year that's a that's a pretty good trade-off they've got that discounted pretty heavily uh so you're you're right you're right. I don't think you're going to get $1,800 a month off of $110,000 invested. That'd be a 20% rate of return. So I think you're going to take a loss on your monthly income if you take the lump sum, but the long-term play is to take the lump sum. Do you need the $1,800 a month to exist? No, I wouldn't because I would be getting a second career. So I could just invest it. I'd take the lump sum.

Then I would roll it, and I'd roll it to a traditional IRA. It will not produce the same monthly, but believe me, the pensions run, they have actuarial tables, and they run the numbers out as to, you know, they're projecting your death in these numbers, okay? And they know they're coming out ahead. And so I'm always taking that lump sum, and almost always it works both ways. Better off with the income and upon death. In this case, it's only going to be upon death.

But I'm still taking it. off with the income and upon death. In this case, it's only going to be upon death. Yeah. But I'm still taking it. And if you keep it, you get to have that as a legacy, you know, to your family that inherits that IRA or whatever it is versus the pension. You know, you reach 65, you can do a lot of stuff with it. You can do, I mean, at 59 and a half, you can do a lot of stuff with it. A lot of options. Yeah. This is The Ramsey Show. show. You've got a lot on your plate, a job, your home, your marriage, and your growing family.

While you're enjoying the present, you can't help but think about your future and your finances. As you explore your options, consider Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, for your healthcare. Their generous maternity program and budget-friendly monthly programs have been a blessing to members welcoming children into their families. Visit chministries.org slash budget to see if it's right for you. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a Ramsey Trusted provider. George Campbell Ramsey Personality is my co-host. Thank you, America, for joining us. This is the Ramsey Show. Delta just announced this headline, just announced a brilliant plan to take a bite out of this $100 billion industry.

It's straight out of Apple's playbook. Analysts have said they expect that this summer will be the biggest travel season ever. Big deal for the airlines, which have struggled over the past two years with the COVID-19 pandemic. Millions, if not billions, of people who have largely stayed close to home during the pandemic are likely to venture out to encourage those travelers. Delta just announced a brilliant strategy. This is from Delta's press release, by the way. They're into humility.

And it's brilliant! Brilliant! It's brilliant. Remember the way, that they're into humility. And it's brilliant. Brilliant. It's brilliant. Remember the old beer commercials? Oh, yeah. It's jumping on board with Buy Now, Pay Later. B-N-P-L. Over the past years, the Buy Now, Pay Later industry has exploded alongside the surge in online shopping. The idea is that a shopper can spread out payments, usually over three to six months.

The buy now, pay now, pay later, representing $100 billion in 2020. And Delta wants a piece of this. Actually, I think it's appropriate, George, because with Delta, you usually buy now and fly later. I love that. That's perfect. Delta is Greek for we ain't really going. Oh, my goodness. And it's ridiculous.

And so now they're going to go ahead and just get you get in the finance business and you're financing your airline ticket. You did a whole segment on the fine print on this buy now, pay later. We did. Which is it's an old it's an old thing with a digital twist. Yeah. I mean, you remember layAway back in the day. But now. No, LayAway didn't have interest.

You had to actually pay to get the product. Now you get it right now. Instant gratification. We don't have the patience. We want to just microwave everything, have it right now. And that's what this is. I talk to people that got really stuck in this. They're buying little items, but a lot of them.

Yeah. And it's like, it's a $30 item, and you got three payments of $9.99 or something. My God, are you that broke? It's insane. I was just looking at the tweets today of just people talking about these companies. And they're talking about, it's $33, and I have the money, but I'm going to do the afterpay. I'm going to do Klarna. I want to do it in $7 payments for the next four months.

And you can add more and more to that. And you talk to people and more to that. And you talk to people that really got credit card debt or something. They really got into a mess with it. Yeah, Lululemon. We talked to one girl who spent $10,000 with Buy Now, Pay Later on Lululemon gear. Got to have it. And so the mentality of this, what it says is, I want it now and I refuse to wait and save up and pay for it when I can afford it.

And we're seeing that Klarna and Afterpay, all these companies, they're bragging to retailers saying, hey, if you use our product, if you use this service, the customers will spend 45 percent more. Well, the airlines have been completely buttholes to their customers over masks and vaccines. And now they want to play nice. You know, now they want to go, yeah, yeah, you don't even have to pay. It's like, yeah, we know what you're up to here, boys and girls. Well, they literally say in the article, you might even spend more than you otherwise would, which is the biggest benefit to any merchant that decides to let customers pay over time. Even if you're not collecting interest, if you make more sales for larger amounts, that's a huge win.

So you tell me who's winning here, the customers? No. It's the buy now, pay companies it's delta not you see i thought rooms there they went was the only place that you did you know uh nothing down for 90 days nothing down for 90 days right no payments for 90 days zero interest for 90 days 90 days same as cash now we have your freaking airline ticket it's insane dave you're gonna love this part it's a sign the world is truly coming to an end well for a lot of reasons this is this is it though this is the one that broke the camel's back right here well no pun intended with a camel sitting right here but here's the thing dave it says in order to take advantage of this new option you have to use one of delta's co-branded american express cards

you love that don't you? Oh, yeah. I love American Express. For Delta, that might be the most brilliant part of all. Yeah. Their company's relationship with American Express is quite possibly the most valuable part of its business. I've heard all I need to hear. Yeah.

Let me help you with this. When corporate America, Delta Airlines, is so freaking stupid that the only thing that they are thinking about when it comes to their customers is how they can milk you like a dairy cow, then they have lost their way. They are supposed to serve the customer, not milk the customer. This is when corporate america is serving i i know that the stockholder is king and i know you've got to make your profits for q1 and q2 to keep your little wall street people happy but if you don't keep your customers happy you go bye-bye and no one cries so when delta goes bye-bye it's going to be like some of these other people that did nobody's going to be crying as a matter of fact we may be doing a little little ramsey dancing here

oh i'll have to invent that but it's not invented yet the dance we don't you can't see it because not been invented yet okay we'll film but when we come up with it george you'll be the first to see it thank you but i mean yeah my god milk your customers this is a core value of this company well they're getting a lot of milk dave it says delta expects this relationship to bring in as much as seven billion dollars in revenue by next year seven billion takes your breath and they're not even a good airline no i mean this is all of that i mean it's just when i see delta come through and and it shows up on my email as a ticket, I'm just always going, oh, God. You know, I mean, how many people do you do business with that when you see them come across and you're getting ready to interact with them, you sigh and groan?

You know? I have that feeling. and that's what this is and now now it's even worse now it's even worse so yeah guys you brought this on yourselves and as long as you keep screwing your customers we're going to keep talking about you and it ain't going to be nice so we'll just keep it up and don't fall for this stuff guys guys really pay for this you can afford a plane ticket let's sit your little butt at home if you don't have the money to fly. Come on. This is serious.

Well, I need a vacation. Shut up. Stay at home. If you don't have the money, stay at home. Dave, that hurts people's feelings when you say it like that. I know, but I'm concerned about people's feelings. I've always been concerned about people's feelings. It's a big thing with me. No, I want you to have a good life. I don't give a about people's feelings. I've always been concerned about people's feelings. It's a big thing with me.

No, I want you to have a good life. I don't give a crap about your feelings. I want you to win. I want you to retire a Baby Steps millionaire. I want you to be able to leave an inheritance to your children's children, not Delta's children. That means I can't do my Instagram post from Cabo, Dave. If I can't travel to Cabo, I can't do the Instagram post.

I said you couldn't travel unless you couldn't afford it. Okay. I'm riding Air, Dave. That's an airline that'll never screw you. I'm just saying, I might be posting from Cabo

any minute. It could happen at any moment, but I can freaking afford to get down there, and I'm not having to finance my airline ticket. Even worse, wait on your skyline miles

from your accrued credit card rewards to afford to go somewhere. That's an even worse wait on your your skyline miles from your accrued credit card rewards to afford to go somewhere that's an even worse plan this is like putting three stupid things together american airline miles pay now four stupid things okay airline miles buy now pay later american express and flying delta these are four stupid things and they all walk into a bar yeah it's like oh my gosh this is like a lot of reasons to not do this and i really don't see any reasons on the plus side here um because they're going to treat you like cattle when you get on there and hit you with a taser if you don't wear your mask just to suit the little they charge you for breathing now too

that's an extra charge breathing yeahhing? Yeah. Yeah, breathing. Well, that'll increase revenue. Yeah. That breathing thing, that's popular. Leg room. Yeah. Carry-ons, you name it, they'll get you. Leg room.

Yeah. That's one you struggle with. That's true. That's one of the many benefits of being as small as I am. You've got plenty of leg room. I stretch out, Dave. You don't have to have that issue. Yeah. That is a benefit benefit it really is thanks for for letting me see the silver lining there well i mean that's what you're here for well i saved you some money george you don't have to buy that

extra expensive seat oh yeah good times and i'm short i don't have i'm not as short as you but i'm short and i i don't have the leg room thing either it's not an issue for me i have a belly issue sometimes that tray comes down it's a problem you know. But you don't have that issue. No. So see, everybody's got their little, everybody's got something they got to carry. Thank you for that reminder. There you go. All right. We just, we took it full circle. I don't know where the circle ended, but it's full. I hope this circle doesn't go unbroken. Oh my gosh. Delta's not going to reach out for the sponsorship now. You don't think it's going to be the Ramsey Show Delta Studios?

It would be hilarious, but I don't see that in our future. I don't think that's happening. I don't think American Express is signing up either. And I guess I'll just have to live with that. Yeah, you'll be all right. This is the Ramsey Show. Well, it's finally warming up in Tennessee. If you guys want to stop by our studios and our lobby, we have a whole visitor center here at Ramsey.

You can sit and watch as we do the show every day. It's kind of like watching ugly paint dry, but you can do it. And we have free coffee and free homemade cookies, and whoever's on the show comes out at the commercial breaks and signs books and takes pictures and whatever else and say, hey, we love seeing you guys, and if you're out and about, there's absolutely no charge. We pay for everything. We want you to come in here and just enjoy yourself and see what all is happening here.

The debt-free stage is in here where people do their debt-free screams in person. Sometimes they call in, but you kind of get to come in here and see all the stuff, and it's quite an experience. It's become a tourist destination site here in Nashville, a little south of Nashville, actually, in Franklin, Tennessee, beautiful Franklin, Tennessee. So come out. We would love to have you any time. And now that the weather's breaking up, some of you are getting out and about,

and most everybody's open and moving around now out there. We've been open and moving around over here for a while, so we're not freaked out, but we still have people kind of walking in looking like, is there something? Is it okay? Yeah, it's okay. It's okay. We'd love to have you, so come on. Hold on.

Am I the ugly paint? I'm just putting two and two together here. No, I've been the ugly paint for 30 years. Okay. I'm the pretty paint, then. You're the pretty wallpaper. Thank you. So there you go.

But it is fun. I always love meeting our guests. There's no pretty paint, but you're the pretty wallpaper. Well, half the guests here are going, hey, Dave, we're moving here. Everyone's trying to get to Tennessee. Yeah, yeah, that's true. And we actually are, you know, we have a little quiz you have to take before you can come to the state, and it involves you learning to vote correctly, because we don't want you

bringing your crap over here and screwing up our wonderful state so if you're leaving over there because it sucks don't bring your vote when you come okay unless you know how we're going to teach you a little remedial voting class so it's a one question pop quiz yeah well it's yeah it's just you know well it might have a few on there about common sense and stuff too because that's good we need you know we're around here we've been known to believe in the First Amendment and the Second Amendment and the Third Amendment and the Fourth Amendment. We believe in all the amendments and the Constitution and stuff, and you're liable to see that around, and it's shocking to you if you're not from an area that you see that kind of stuff. So those things pop up around here,

the free speech thing, and someone might be might be armed and it's just it's a different world for some of you so um but but we'd love to have you visit and if you want to move here we'd love to have you we're we are southern hospitality um but but yeah so you're right half the people are like hey we're looking at houses today yeah okay that's we know we know and we this is the most expensive county in all of t. It's the 11th wealthiest county in the nation. Wow. This county. I tipped the scales.

That was me, Dave. I'm sorry. Yeah. Well, I mean, we knew you were here for something. Well, and it's all the country artists, too. They're all around here. Half of them. Yeah, they're all around here, but that's not what it was.

But anyway, some of them have some money. Some of them used to have some money. The ones that you're friends with. You've taught them well. Well, I don't know. John Rich is doing all right. That's the name, but yeah. So open phones to 888-825-5225.

Ryan is with us in San Antonio. Hey, Ryan, how are you? Hi, Dave and George. Thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? I've got a question about an underperforming mutual fund in my 401K. A little back story about 12 months ago. Define underperforming. performing? It's out of the all the mutual funds options in my 401k the last 12 months it's been

pretty much the worst performing mutual fund. What category is it? What category of fund is it? Small cap so I guess does that translate to aggressive growth? Aggressive, that's the small cap. Yeah. Exactly. So how does it compare to other small cap funds out in the world? Worse off than most of the other ones, but I do see that the other ones are not doing so great the past 12 months as well. That wasn't a passive-aggressive question, but that's how you compare. You don't compare your small cap to your growth and income and say, oh, I'm ditching the small cap,

because the small cap may be having a rough season. It is small companies who are more susceptible to volatility and weird times like we're in, and so it may have taken a hit. I haven't even looked at mine. I don't know. But you don't compare you don't say oh my small cap is underperforming my growth and income but if your small cap is underperforming most all other small caps or other small caps that you have inside your options of your 401k then yes you would jump off that horse does that make sense yeah it does and i guess my main question was like how long would you hold on to a grossly underperforming mutual fund i feel like 12 months

isn't that long enough i'm not ready to no that's enough 12 months is enough if it is if it's underperforming if it's one of the in the bottom 10 of all small caps or of uh you know it's substantially off for 12 months i'm probably jumping if you got another small cap to go to in the 401k but i want you in growth growth and income aggressive growth international and the aggressive growth is a small cap so you need to have something in that category that you jump to and but the trick is not to say oh my mutual funds are down well the stock market might be say oh my mutual funds are down well the stock market might be down oh my mutual funds are down well that that category of stock of fund might be down that doesn't mean

we destroy the diversification we still ride the horse then but if uh but if all small caps are up and yours is down well you got a sucky fund jump out after over 12 months i'd be out of it that makes sense i appreciate your input hey man thanks for the call that's important because people we want all four categories to do well all the time and they almost never do that's why you have four categories yeah it's well balanced exactly if one's going down chances are another one's going up and we've seen international has not been doing so hot for years now. But when the other ones go down, international tends to bump up. And so we want that balance there.

It kind of feels like you're at the grocery store and you choose the right line. You go, oh, that line's going to be the fastest. And you get in and you go, oh, my gosh, this lady's using coupons and a check. This is going to take four hours. I should have gone to the other line. So you jump to the other line. So it's a little bit of that dance you're feeling there where you chose. It just never works. It doesn't even work in the grocery store line. So it's a little bit of that dance you're feeling there where you chose. It just never works.

It doesn't even work in the grocery store line. No, never. You go from one to the other, and then that one's clocked, and then they've got to do a price check. I mean, oh, my gosh. You know, it's like, right, you're right. You've just got to keep track of it. Play through.

Play through. And, you know, the other one I do, and I do all of these except with the investments. I don't do it with investments. But you're riding down the road and you you know you see the traffic's backing up so you pop up pop up the app right and say oh i gotta get off and as soon as you get off it starts moving yeah right as soon as you go i'm gonna go around the country roads as soon as you do that it starts moving you should have just sat there and played but not no not me. I have the patience of a flea.

Except when it comes to investing. Except when it comes to investing, because my intellect will overrule my little boy emotions, and I stick with it, which is what I try to help you guys do every day here. James is in Dothan, Alabama. Hi, James. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. How are you doing?

Great, man. What's up? Well, I'm calling to get advice. I'm trying to set my mother up, hopefully, for the rest of her life. She's 70 years old. I'll give you the rundown here. In a nutshell, she's 70 years old, recently widowed. She's never managed her own affairs.

She's never even balanced her own checkbook. Her income is going to be, because it just got cut, her Social Security is going to be about $1,600 a month. Her current bills are $2,200 a month. She has, of which her bills are, she's got another three years to pay on a bankruptcy at the tune of about $353 a month, right? Her assets are these. She's got the Social Security coming in, but she has an IRA with $25,000 in it and some insurance money from Dad's death.

And we're trying to set her up to last for the rest of her life. And you already see the gap between the income and the bills. Her major bills. How much insurance money was there? $78,000. Okay. Does she want your help? Well, she needs it.

I know she needs it. I'll be honest. She needed it 10 years ago. Does she want it? know she needs it i'll be honest she needed it 10 years ago does she want it will she listen to you she doesn't really have a choice uh yeah she does all right hold on we'll come back and talk to you after this break this is the ramsey show We'll be right back. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. We're talking with James in Dothan, Alabama. His father just passed away, left his mom 78 grand.

She's got 25 grand on an IRA. They're in a Chapter 13 bankruptcy. She's 70 years old. She has no assets other than that. Has a little bit of income from Social Security, but it's not enough to pay her bills. And he said she's got to have to change some things, and that's where we were talking. Is that a fair summary of what you told us so far, sir? Yes, sir, that's a fair summary.

And to answer your question from before, yes, she is willing to accept my help. Okay, that's good. That's good, because that makes a lot of difference. Because if you have to twist somebody's arm and stuff, when the money is this tight, it makes a really tough situation almost impossible. So if she's willing to do and follow some instructions and you know she's probably afraid she's probably got a lot of family what she's probably afraid probably okay yes has a lot of fear how long ago did your dad pass about

a month and a half oh my goodness I'm sorry Wow thank you for that this is very fresh. Okay. Do you have any idea what the balance on the Chapter 13 bankruptcy is to pay it off? About $12,400. Okay. I would use some of your $78,000 and clear that out of her life. Okay. See, I talked to the lawyer just yesterday. He said you cannot pay it off early because you have to pay off dollar for dollar if you do that way. Right now, she's only going to pay 27 cents on the dollar if she maintains the payments, according to the lawyer.

Yeah, I mean, Chapter 13 can do a percentage, that's for sure. I think I would call Chapter 13 trustee and see if you can work a deal with them. Because I don't think that's the law. I think that may be a standard. But I think that that can be done to get on out of this. If it can't, then you're going to have to sit and pay it out because 27 cents is that's a 75 increase if you don't write it out right so you got to write the smart thing is it is to keep the payments but you've got that 353 monkey on your back for the next three years yeah until well she'll be all right after that, but her major debts are insurances and, you know, things like that, major health insurance.

For somebody seven years old who's had a liver transplant, you know, they add up. But anyway. So, yeah, I think you get down on her budget and comb through it. You help her handle the monthly expenses. Does she have any debt that's not in the Chapter 13? No. No car debt that's in the 13? No.

Everything's paid off. I mean, she's doing the best she can. She does have some things in her budget that I would say she needs to get rid of. And what I'm referring to is she has access to a property, and she pays the light bill at that place. And I told her she needs to get out from under that because there's $60 a month, which isn't a tremendous amount of money, but it helps. Access to a property, what does that mean?

Well, it's family property, and she's agreed to pay the power bill to it for access to it oh i see that makes sense yeah okay but she doesn't own it but she doesn't own it no okay no she doesn't need access she's 70 you have access to the public park yeah um so that she can't afford it she's a she's a widow that doesn't have any money, and this is a horrible situation. All right, so I'm going to call the 13 trustee and see if you can get on out of this. If not, here's the deal. It's $4,000 a year for three years. It's $12,000 is the full payout on it of the 78.

I'm just going to bank that to the side and use that little savings account to monthly subsidize her income to offset the bankruptcy being there if you've got to pay it all the way through. Does that make sense? Yes, yes, it makes absolutely sense. And then the rest of it I'm going to start piling up and trying to create a way for her to have a life as best she can. Do you think she would benefit from going through Financial Peace University if you sat and went through it with her, if I give it to you?

Yeah. Okay. I don't see. Well, she'd absolutely benefit from it. And I want to throw this at you, too. We've been talking to a financial advisor through the bank that she banks with, and he's trying to push her into an annuity. No.

She puts her. See, and I saw your video on annuities and i said you know what he's gonna shoot me straight uh but she'll also don't do financial advisors that work at banks aren't real financial advisors they're bankers they're salesmen selling products yeah so you need to get away got got you know here's what we're gonna do all right i'm gonna give you a financial peace university for her to go through free we're also going to give her free coaching with one of our coaches that will give real advice. I didn't try to sell anything.

And I'm going to pay for all of it. We're going to take care of her. I'm supposed to take care of widows. I'm a Christian. So that's what we're going to do. All right? So we'll give you all of that. And then your job is to get her to those people and listen with her

because she may need an interpreter, so to speak. She may need someone to speak it back to her later. But we'll walk with you. And then if you need investment advice, which I don't think you need much of, get with one of our SmartVestor pros, and they're not going to put her in an annuity. She does not need to be in an annuity with this amount of money and with this situation at all. She needs much more flexibility than that is going to give her.

And really, really dumb butt idea from a bank investment advisor. Hope I wasn't unclear, George. Very clear. Okay. Loud and clear. But yeah, we need to get the coach to give you some next steps

and that's where he can come in and help with some of the homework of trying to get all these expenses down so that we can live off the 1600 long-term. Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing. And I don't, you know, it can be done. I don't know what the rest of the budget looks like,

but getting that bankruptcy cleared is there. That's really sad. It's a tough situation. Yeah, it is. And those situations, when I hear them, I have two sets of emotions, and I have for 30 years. Set of emotion number one is um i feel so bad for her and for the situation that she's in and i want to help her but situation number

two is it reminds me how important it is for me you and everybody out there listening to not end up in that situation yeah to be 70 years old and broke. There's no reason to be there. And it's not to shame her or beat up on her, but that motivates me to not let any of you guys be there. If I have to make you mad, if I have to flop around and do whatever it is we do around here to get your attention, to get you to save some money and get out of debt and get on a budget so that you don't end up in

bankruptcy at 70 years old paying bankruptcy payments and and your son's trying to help you work through this oh my gosh that's not where you want to be and i know it wasn't where she wanted to be but the thing is you make enough money to not be broke if you quit spending it all hello this is really not rocket science and so i when i first started this stuff and when i first started my wealth building journey i use those situations as motivation i'm there i don't i'm not going to be that person and it's not to talk bad about them and it's not to be mean about their situation i'll help them i love them i'm sad for them but i'm i'm also going to use that as a motivation i don't be there not in the richest country the world has ever known. Yeah, there's too much opportunity,

and it's not hard. The stuff we teach is so simple, and people want to overcomplicate it and do the get rich quick. But we say, if you just do this for 30 years, you're going to be a millionaire. That's it. It's that simple. So we get a lot of calls like this, where you have the kind of sandwich generation where the son, he's trying to take care of his family, but he's also trying to take care of mom or dad who didn't handle money the right way, and now they're in a pinch. They want to help, and you could hear it in his voice. He's got a heart to help mom, but there's not a ton he can do. We can't just bankroll their life either. Well, and that starts to be your only option pretty quick.

So when social insecurity is what you're counting on, that is a bad situation. Hey, folks, when the team gets together at Ramsey Solutions, we talk about our mission to change situations like that, to change America's toxic culture, toxic money culture, toxic relationship culture, toxic job culture. And the folks here, they don't work at J-O-B. The folks on our team work in mission. This is a mission. It's passionate.

If you're a UX designer, if you're a developer, a writer, if you want to help us build some digital products that actually do change people's lives so that they don't end up in bad situations and get out of the bad situations into the good ones, we can show you how. So to see what it's like to do work that matters with us, before you apply, just follow us on Instagram and Facebook by searching Ramsey Careers. If you want to know what's going on with the job opportunities that are here, you can join the mission, not a J-O-B.

Go to RamseySolutions.com slash careers. We're hiring about 300 people this year. RamseySolutions.com slash careers. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash show.