The Ramsey Show - App - DAVE RANT: Giving In to Mass Hysteria Is Dumb! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: March 11, 2020

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Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Jonathan in Washington is going to start us off. Hi, Jonathan. How are you? Hi, Dave. Thanks a lot for taking my call. I'm doing pretty good. Good. How can I help today?

Well, I had a question for you. I just discovered you a couple months ago, and I made my mistakes with credit cards and buying too much car and all that good stuff, and took a second job. We're chipping away at paying off our debt. Good. How much have you paid off? The thing is, slowly working away at it. We're still getting rolling through the baby steps. I got my first emergency fund in place and just making extra payments on things. So, yeah, still getting started, a couple thousand, I guess. Okay. But the biggest thing is it's hard for me to keep my mouth shut when I'm talking to people.

I want to tell all my friends and family, like, hey, you know, don't be going into debt. Don't be borrowing money for anything. And the same thing I keep hearing is, oh, well, I have a credit card for emergencies, and it's great because I get points, and then I just pay it off every month. How am I supposed to convince people that that's still a bad idea to even have one, that they think they're getting some deal with points or miles well um to start with you're just getting started so you don't really need to convince anybody yeah you just need to do your thing right that's like a

that's like a full-time job right there so um you know but but in in basically the concept is this if you get one percent back on your discover card that means that if you have a thousand dollars from discover you spent a hundred thousand dollars to cause that to happen yeah on what planet is that smart? Yeah. That we go through 100 grand to come up with one. That's absolutely asinine. And yet people walk around like they did something smart. There's nothing smart about that. Yeah. I get airline miles.

Well, great. You think those are free? You think Santa Claus lives at the airline and the credit card company? Where do you think those airline miles come from, doofus? You're paying for them. That's where they come from. You know? Yeah.

And so, you know, to start with, you can hardly use the airline miles. Consumer Reports says 78% of airline miles are never redeemed. And so if they're never redeemed, you know what they're worth? Zero. And so your rationalization 78% of the time is stupid, which rationalizations are always stupid, but that just firms it up, right? And so, you know, the last thing is this. If you want to be a millionaire, you should ask millionaires what they do with money, not broke people.

And millionaires, I've met with tens of thousands of them in 30 years. I have never met a millionaire that said, Dave, you know, my financial breakthrough was those airline miles. Yeah, makes sense. they never say that as a matter of fact they never use credit cards a few of them have credit cards the vast majority don't that's what our study shows and even the ones that have them not one of them says oh i do it for the airline miles that's always broke people that say stuff like that yeah rich people don't say stuff like that broke people ask how much down how much a month rich people ask how much yeah broke people have their ways yeah broke people have big screen library a big screen tv

zigzag used to say rich people have libraries. And, you know, just start thinking about, in other words, what is the value system, the character qualities, the habit patterns, and the uses of money that people that have wealth and have kept it use. And you want to emulate those, not what broke people do. So, you know, you're just getting started. And if broke people make fun of your financial plan, it means you're right on track, my friend. Okay. Good to know.

Yeah, I mean, I'm not having second thoughts about my cards, but I did the same thing. Oh, yeah, I'll use it for groceries and all this stuff and pay it off every month, and then it gets out of control. It always does. And you spend more, by the way, when you spend with plastic. Yeah. Because it doesn't activate. Cash, when you use it, activates the pain centers of the brain.

Plastic does not. So you just don't have an emotional connection. When you go on a cruise, you go to Disney World, they let your room key be your charge card all week. And that's so they can sell you an $8 ice cream cone. Yeah. And you don't even think about it. You're just like, wave the room key, you know,

because it does not activate the pain centers of the brain. It's low friction emotionally, and you buy more stuff. When you use a credit card instead of cash, you spend 12% to 18% more on the average purchase. On a smaller purchase,

a lot more. Vending machines, 178% increase when they put in credit cards over cash. 178% when they put in credit cards over cash 178 increase would you like to increase your business 178 most of us would now larger the item the smaller the increase right but the average purchase is 12 to 18 percent uh fast food purchase is uh right around 40 increase when they with a card using purchaser instead of a cash purchaser.

When you spend cash at Mickey D's, you go, give me the kid's meal, right? When you spend your credit card, you're like, yeah, I'll take one of those with the apple pie, and I'll buy the guy behind me. I mean, you just overspend your butt off because you don't emotionally register the expenditure. And I teach this for a living and have for 30 years, and I personally experience this. I personally don't realize I'm spending money when I'm using even a debit card because my debit card's got plenty of money in the account. So I can kind of do with it whatever I want, right? And so even in that case i mean when i'm on a cruise or i'm on a uh a property where you can just use the card you charge stuff

to the room it's the same thing it's low friction emotionally you don't think anything about it and uh i did a purchase that should have been 15 when i was on that australia trip and when i got the bill at the end it was an item that i pay 15 for and when i got to the end of the stay at that location is my fault i didn't ask i didn't look completely my fault i got the bills 115 about how to coronary just because i was so stupid i wouldn't have bought that anymore than fly the moon but i just like oh yeah give me one of those and you know we're dinner give me one of those yeah, give me one of those. And, you know, we're at dinner. Give me one of those.

And, yeah, give me two of those. And, you know, you just there's no emotional friction when there's not real money on the table. You don't register it. And that's, you know, that's the lesson that we've been teaching for a long time, Jonathan. And so a really, really good question. And, you know, all of us that that do marketing we know that the more times the more things you have to do in order to buy our product a website that requires you to go through five hoops that's called friction in the website world if you have to go through five hoops

to buy something it gets too hard you abandon the cart and walk away conversion rate goes down and so that's why amazon prime is just making a freaking killing. You can just push that little button and you buy stuff and it shows up on your porch. You do not emotionally register the expenditure. You just boom, boom, boom, boom. And they get those easy buttons. One of our friends, Toddler, hit the easy button six times. They got all this toilet paper on their front porch.

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Don't wait. One hire can change the direction of your company. Post a job today at linkedin.com slash Ramsey and get $50 off your first job post. That's linkedin.com slash Ramsey. Terms and conditions apply. my friend art laugher says that no one makes good decisions when they're in a panic or when they're drunk when the culture is in the middle of hysteria and is being completely irrational, if you follow them, you will go over the cliff with them. Anybody old enough to remember Y2K? I had friends that sold everything they owned,

bought gold bars and buried them in the ground in the backyard, moved out in the middle of nowhere into a shanty because the grid was going to melt down and society as we know it was going to collapse because of Y2K. There were a lot of people who lost their minds about Y2K. Now you may not remember it, but it was 20 years ago at the turn of the century. There was a problem in some of the software that was running computers that when it was written, it didn't anticipate ever making it to the 2000 year mark. And the dates were all going to go sideways, which was going to blow up all the computers and everything in the world is run by computers.

And so the entire world was going to collapse. Water supply was going to go away. Electrical grids were going to collapse. Entire businesses would go out of business. Millions and probably billions of dollars were spent retooling the computers and getting ready for it, but it was still predicted that the world was coming to an end. So people had cases and cases and cases of water in their basement bottled water people generator sales went through the roof gas can sales went through the roof to get gas for the generators does anybody remember this but me ammunition sales and gun sales went through the roof because we were going to be in be living in a post-apocalyptic

world like some bad movie, some B-rated horror flick. There was hysteria. Now, Y2K was an actual problem. It was an actual problem but did it do anywhere near what the conspiracy theorists or the media the hypesters the drama builders said it was going to do obviously not you know what happened The ball dropped. Fireworks went off. Nothing happened. Nothing. Nothing.

I mean, not just small failures. I mean, nothing happened. It was the biggest hysterical hoax of the last 50 years. It wasn't a hoax, but it was just so overstated, the hyperbole around it, the drama around it, the hysteria around it. Sound familiar? Sound familiar? It was a real problem, but it was a 2% of what it was stated to be, 4% of what it was stated to be. It was 96% BS, 4% reality.

And you could not find a generator. You could not find bottled water in December of 1999. The stores were bare. They couldn't keep enough of it. Peanut butter. People bought five-gallon jars of peanut butter so they would have something to survive on because the food supply was going to go away.

Okay. Come on, folk. Now, Y2K was a legitimate thing. But it was 4%, I'm making that number up, of the problem. 96% was the hysteria around it. And you know what? Lots of people cashed in their mutual funds and their retirement. In the summer of 1999, the market went way down because of Y2K fears.

Do you know what it did in January of 2000 after nothing happened? It shot straight up and did so through the entire year of 2000. It was almost a record year in the stock market. Did anybody report on that? No. Did they report on Y2K for two years before that the entire world was going to come to an end? Yes. I mean, Kroger and Procter & Gamble and those guys, they like you.

Costco, they like you being in a panic because they sell their stuff like crazy. Their stock's going up. I mean, they're making so much profit right now they can't make enough hand sanitizer to get it out there people are taking baths in it apparently i don't know what y'all are doing with all of it and bottled water is that one funny i mean do you really think like we're gonna die of the coronavirus in the water system are you that dense that's as redneck as thinking the virus comes from corona beer i mean that's just totally dumb are you just that dumb dumb is what that is just dumb it's not even ignorant it's just dumb i mean it's just kind of sad, y'all, that you don't have a critical thinking skills enough to read through the hysteria and realize you're not going to die.

The entire economy is not going to implode. Good Lord. Peace and be still. It just tells you how weak your spiritual life is, too. That you're completely freaked out over one month's supply of something. That tells you where you sit spiritually. It also tells you where you sit financially. But I just got to tell you, when you get that panic, you don't make good decisions.

You do not make good decisions. Do not cash out your money out of your retirement, please. You're going to look like one of those Y2K fools. You're going to lose your butt, and then you're going to call me up and go, see, I told you mutual funds don't work. Well, they don't work if you're drunk or panicked. You have to have critical thinking skills to ride the roller coaster. No one gets hurt on a roller coaster except those that jump off in the middle of the ride.

You know, that's why they had to put those stupid bars in those roller coasters it wasn't to keep you from falling out it's to keep some of you fools from jumping out in the middle of the ride like you're gonna die because of your fear not because of the reality of the ride and it's just unbelievable. Unbelievable. So calm down. You're going to be okay, I promise. I promise you're going to be okay.

You might get the flu. You might get a virus. You're more likely to die of a car wreck. But you didn't quit driving cars. I don't understand you people. Statistical analysis. You didn't quit. You still smoke.

You've been smoking for 15 years. We know that kills you. And you don't stop that. But you're hiding in your house right now and afraid to come out. This is just, it's crazy. Hysteria really makes smart people look dumb because they are. Their critical thinking skills have melted down. So just go back to Y2K. When your friends are going crazy right now,

just look at them and say, bless your little heart, which is southern for you're stupid. Bless your heart. That's what we say in the south. It can mean a lot of different things. My wife says that it's not good at all. I can just tell you when she says it to me. But it probably means I'm about to get my throat slit.

But bless your heart. Calm down. It really is going to be okay, y'all. I'm making fun of you. I'm poking at you. But turn off the television. If you're freaking out, turn off your television. Open up your Bible.

You're going to be okay. You're going to be okay. You're going to be okay, I promise. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. If you do this one simple thing that we all do, you are literally at risk of being hacked and someone stealing what you've worked so hard for. Do you ever use public Wi-Fi? I'm talking about getting online at a coffee shop, a store, the airport, or even at home. Hackers can use a simple $100 device to mimic Wi-Fi,

and with just a little bit of skills, they can take over your financial life. This means you may think you're on your bank's site or app or securely making that purchase online, but hackers could see and steal that information. That's why I trust CyberGhost VPN. CyberGhost thinks about cybercrime so you don't have to. You can try it for free for seven days, protect up to seven internet devices, and keep all of your internet connections secure. That's CyberGhost VPN. Download it today from your app store and be secure in seconds. Matthew is with us. Matthew's in Tennessee. Hi, Matthew.

How are you? Doing great, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? All right. So my question is, my wife and I, we're in our second year of marriage. We're going through kind of two processes right now in terms of trying to save money for a house and a cash flow grad school. So we just started our Roth IRA

account. We wanted to know if it's a, if it'd be a smart move to max that out for this year, even though we're saving for a house and trying to pay cash for grad school. Well, you have three things, all of which are good things to do, and you eventually are going to do all three of them. Which is the most important of the three things? Probably retirement, I would say, since we're so young. We're 26 years old right now. That's more important than you finishing grad school?

Oh, grad school's probably pretty important, too, but I guess long-term. I'm just saying, today, what is the most important? In my mind, it'd be grad school. Oh, yeah, grad school. I'd say that's your number one of those three.

And I would say buying a house is probably number two and retirement's three. So, if you have enough money to do all three today without any problem you're able to get your down payment saved while doing a Roth IRA while paying cash for grad school that's wonderful but I got a feeling you call me because you don't have enough to do all three well I have or we have 10,000 emergency fund another10,000 in emergency fund, another $30,000 in our savings account, and we've paid cash so far for her grad school. What's your household income?

$88,000. What are you studying in grad school? Nurse practitioner. Good, good degree. How much do you lack finishing, and what's it going to cost? So she will finish May of 2021, and I think we have about $10,000 more left to pay out. Okay.

So let's pretend the $10,000 emergency fund is not even on the table. We're not talking about it, okay? But you've got $30,000 in addition to that, right? Correct. Okay. We're going to set $10,000 of that aside and say that finishes grad school okay now i got 20 left okay when are you thinking about buying a home so we'll probably buy a home after she finishes grad school maybe that would be my advice because your income's going to change

she passes her bars and starts making bank adequately yeah she starts making bank on after passing her bars and everything then um her her you know and you know is able to practice it's going to be great that's when i would buy so you got 18 months to buy a house um how much more can you save in 18 months? Well, our income per month ranges from $5,000. I know. You told me. How much more can you save in 18 months? Probably another $20,000 to $26,000 maybe. You're pretty frugal.

Good. I like it. Oh, yeah. Okay, so you have $20,000 now. If you put another $20,000 with it, you'd have a $40,000 down payment if you don't do the Roth IRAs. Right. If you want to do the Roth IRAs, there's $6,000 each. That'd be $12,000 less you would have for your down payment.

Either one is okay. You've got the money to do all three. Right, I do. It's just a question of whether you want to put down a bigger down payment or whether you want to do a Roth IRA this year. Neither one's a bad answer. Okay. I think I may do the Roth IRAa just max that out that for this year because we save around two thousand dollars a month good okay we're completely debt free we

pay well you're right you're at baby step 3b and saving for a down payment that's where you are and sometimes people do go ahead and they just don't do baby step 3b they just start doing baby step 4 15 of your income into retirement. You can do that or a portion of that and then save your down payment out of the rest of that. You're frugal enough. You're able to do both. Okay, awesome. I really appreciate that.

I think I'm going to max it out and I think we'll be fine. Yeah, I think you will. Yeah, get with your SmartVestor Pro and pick out some good mutual funds to fund it. And you can just set it up on an auto draft on your checking account and just fund it. I mean, it's pretty simple. It's going to be $500 a month for each of you, $6,000 each. So $1,000 a month is going to fund two Roth IRAs. And you're game on.

It's that simple. Good. Good job. You're going to be very wealthy. Danny's in Ohio. Hi, Danny. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave.'re going to be very wealthy. Danny's in Ohio. Hi, Danny. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave.

How are you doing? Better than I deserve, sir. What's up? So later this year, I'm going to be getting married, and I'm currently in baby step seven. The fiance, she's in baby step two with $70,000 in debt. I guess my main question is, obviously, when we get married, everything's's going to go into one and we're going to tackle that bet good do i or we still uh contribute to retirement even though i'm in baby step seven the house is paid off i wouldn't until you had seventy thousand dollars extra in your savings account to write a check after the honeymoon

yes sir yes sir so i would be if i were in baby step seven i would stop everything put 70 grand aside when you're getting married oh this summer okay what's your house what's your income 70,000 okay well you're not gonna have 70,000 saved by summer then no no i got my uh i got 15 000 uh for my uh emergency fund and uh i'm just still still saving and anticipating you know obviously paying help pay that debt all yeah yeah so you're gonna you're just gonna have to tie it tear into that i just pile up cash till the summer when you come back from the honeymoon right checks towards that debt yeah and then kick back in like you're all on baby step two

because you are going to be all on baby step two at that point, and then start again. So you stop all retirement, and let's just act like you're in debt because you're about to be. Right, right. She's on board with all this? Oh, 100% on board. She's been working at it hard, you know but uh she's been in school and a lot

of it's cool with that so uh what's her degree yeah she's uh education good good very cool wonderful wonderful hey thank you for the call congratulations open phones at 888-825-5225 8 8 2 5 5 2 2 5 tony in indiana how are you tony uh well uh it's a life's a hassle how can how much more can i say about that i think you covered it how can i help hey um i make 32 grand a year i'm about 60 000 in debt i've i keep completing baby step one but then i live with my dad and my dad's not so good with the money. And he owes me about $30,000. A lot of my parents' cars are $15,000 to $20,000 each, and they're both in my name because of their divorce, which was about money. They actually took me to your class when I was like 11, which is how I remembered you.

But apparently they didn't learn anything from it, and I need to figure out how I can go about this get my dad to stop borrowing stuff because it's got me my credit cards are mostly maxed out because I help having to help him out because my thousand dollars is gone how old are you just turned 27 and how old is he 46 and the car he's driving is in your name? Yeah, it's a Ford F-350 Super Duty truck. He told me, well, restart my business that I had up in Michigan. And the business actually did quite well. So I'm like, okay, we can restart it. But things keep happening and he keeps putting it off. It didn't do well. You got $32,000 income and your parents owe $50,000 on cars that are in your name. This is insanity. $30,000. It's insanity.

I got about $6,000 in credit card debt, $15,000 in student loans, which I took out to help pay for my sister's private Christian school education. When are you going to stop trying to fix your family? I don't know. I'm bad at it. I'm too generous of a person. No, you're not generous. You're an enabler.

Oh, I'm an idiot. Yeah. No, I didn't say you're an idiot. You have a big heart. You're a sweet person. Yeah, it's hard to say no when they frame it as we're all going to lose everything if we don't find a way to come up with some money. Yeah, you're all going to lose everything.

They're going to take you with them. Yeah. So no starts today, son. Yeah. It's an easy word. It's an easy word. It's an ancient word, and it is a powerful word. You press your tongue towards the top of your mouth. You release it.

You blow air past your lips, and it sounds like this. No. Yeah. No. If you don't learn that word, you're going to be bankrupt. Yeah. You are not loving your parents well. You are participating in their

insanity yep you're not helping them you're harming them stop harming them stop it that's for your good man i love you don't go don't this is hurting you it It's hurting them. Stop it. Thank you. Jamie's with us. Jamie is in Canada. Hi, Jamie. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

How can I help? Well, my husband and I work for the same organization. We are under the same defined benefit plan, defined pension benefit plan. So 10% of our pre-tax income goes to that, and our employer matches it 100%. So that's about 20% of our income, which is great. Now our pension organization has changed the rules

that if we take the lump sum when we retire, they take away the employer match. So we're just wondering what your thoughts are on that. When we retire, should we still take the full lump sum? Should we take the pension then? No, cut it in half. Yeah, that's what it'll do. It'll cut our pension in half, basically.

So we're just wondering if one of us should take the lump sum or we should both just take our pension. I would do other saving other than just this. Absolutely, and we do. Okay, so you've got some other wealth to count on other than just this pension. But I'm just doing math in my head. I haven't looked at the actual mathematics of this, but it's going to be very difficult for this pension to suck so bad that double the money doesn't make you more money than half the money yeah i mean it would have to be horrible i mean

they have to be working out on a two percent rate of return or something you know or a six four percent rate of return and it's just um you know, that's a bizarre change. But what it amounts to is if everybody was cashing out, everybody was cashing out and weakening the pensions, what it was. Yes, yes, exactly. So, you know, you never know. How old are you guys? We're 35 and 40.

It might change again before you get there, too. Right, right. Okay, good to know thank you for today i mean you don't have to make the decision today anyway but for today i i'm gonna guess and say the mathematics is going to tell you to stay in very difficult to take half your money and the investment be so horrible that you come out with more money that way it could be you have to be pretty bad. All right, Mike's in Arkansas. Hey, Mike, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Well, I work for an airline. I'm a pilot, and I've only been there about three years.

And my wife and I have been kind of on and off the program a little while, but we finally got serious about it several months back. And our house is paid for. That's good. We just finished. It was pretty nice. You wouldn't be happy with the way I did it because I borrowed from the 401K, but then she got me on your listening to you again. So I finally paid that back.

Good. So now it is free. Okay, good. Now it is free. Okay, good. Now it is free. And so I'm curious, you know, at my airline, the bookings are down like 70%. There's already some talk of furlough. And I'm wondering if I should pause my 401k, you know, 15% contributions and beef up that emergency fund a little more since it feels like I'm a lot more likely to really need that fund soon than I would have thought.

Yeah, I probably would. Oh, you would? Yeah. Yeah, I probably would stop. I would just, I would be, because you're looking at, you're looking at the horizon and there's storm clouds coming. Yeah. You know, you better get ready. Okay. there's storm clouds coming. Yeah. You know, you better get ready.

Okay. It's not anything you can do about it either. There's a problem. You've not been there long enough to, you'll be one of the first ones out. Yeah. You'll be one of the first ones to sit down with only three years seniority, right? That's right. Yeah.

And so the thing is, it's not going to be highly unlikely unless the airline collapses financially, because they are not in good financial shape enough to survive a downturn. But if they don't collapse financially, it's highly unlikely you'll be off work that long. Sure. Because we just have to wait for the hysteria to pass, and then people start buying airline tickets again. That's right. That's right. I hope they do.

Thanks for your help, Dave. Thank you. I hope they do, too. I'll be on a plane this afternoon to New York, so there you go. Just like that. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Brandon is with us in South Carolina. Hi, Brandon.

How are you? Hey, Dave. I'm doing all right. Good. How can I help? So my mother passed away last month. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you.

I'm 30. She was 52. It was very sudden from the flu, actually. And she had three life insurance policies, and my brother and I are 50-50 beneficiaries on all the policies. And we're sort of at a disconnect on what to do with the money. While we've been going through her stuff, we found where she wanted the money split between some family members. But the policies have changed since the document we have found.

The policies have increased a little bit, and we're just at a disconnect on how we should actually handle the money. And I just want to do the right thing because I don't want to ruin the relationship with my brother, you know. Well, here's the thing. The money on a beneficiary is going straight to you and straight to him right period then each of you can decide if you want to give away some of your money i don't know why it would ruin the relationship he can decide if he wants to do

some of the stuff in that document and you can decide if he wants to do some of the stuff in that document, and you can decide if you want to do some of the stuff in that document. One of you could. One of you doesn't have to. You don't have to do it. There's nothing that says you have to do it. Nothing. As a matter of fact, I can tell by the way you're telling the story,

you don't think it's a good idea. Well, I understand that the money is ours because we're the beneficiaries. i know my mother would want us to give some of it to our family and i'm well okay with family i definitely wanted uh her siblings she had three siblings and some of their if she wanted money left to them why didn't she name them as beneficiaries i completely agree i completely agree why do that why do you need to give them money i don't understand why she would do that it would come from a very humble family and she was very and she had way more life insurance than she even needed i mean so how much money will you be getting how much money will your brother be getting 150,000 each that's not that much right I agree but how much would you be giving away how much would you be giving away to other family members if you followed this

document she had like about half of it given away okay and so if we try to follow about her percentages or and you know fix it around i would be probably looking for between 60 and 75 of keeping the 150 yeah it's completely up to you i don't i listening to this i don't feel any moral unction to do that but if you if you really think that was her real wishes um then that's fine but i don't know why this would cause a conflict with your brother he has to decide with his money whether he's going to do this or not i mean he could do it you not do it you could do it him not do it and it shouldn't cause any hard feelings between the two of you. It's just that he wants to, you know, give a lot of it away. It's his money.

Right. It's his money. If he wants to do that, that's fine. But if he wants to give your money away, then that's a problem. Right. You decide whether you're going to give your money away. He decides whether he's going to give his money away. I agree.

I just want to turn this into life-changing money. I just want to do the right thing with it. Well, it can be. And if you want to do something for those folks, that's fine. The thing you need to ask yourself is what's driving all this? Because I just – it doesn't feel healthy to me, the mental health of it. It doesn't feel right.

It feels like she felt guilty or there's some kind of toxicity in this family driving this. It feels strange. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But you just, you smoke on that a little bit. I think it's,

I think it's weird. That's what I'm saying. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. You can listen to Dave anywhere with the Dave Ramsey Show app on your smartphone.

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