The Ramsey Show - App - DAVE RANT: Navient Pays for Predatory Lending (Hour 1)

Episode Date: January 13, 2022

Debt, Education, Investing, Insurance, Home Buying, Home Selling, Saving As heard on this episode: Sign Up for a FREE trial of Ramsey+ TODAY: https://bit.ly/3rZTUAx Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: https://bit.ly/2Q64HME Insurance Coverage Checkup: https://bit.ly/3sXwUn5 Complete Guide to Budgeting: https://bit.ly/3utmVXi Check out more Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3fHhbVE

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It's book launch week around Ramsey. The new book, Baby Steps Millionaires, How Ordinary People Built Extraordinary Wealth and How You Can Too is selling at a record pace. Dude, it's blowing, man. It may be the fastest selling book I've ever done. I've never seen it. Incredible. It's pretty incredible.

Thank you guys out there. We really appreciate you. it's uh zoom zoom we got a big event tonight with george camel rachel cruz and me 150 000 people signed up to watch online 1500 will be live in the audience it's completely free to watch online it is called building wealth in 2022 and we're going to tell you how to really do it um pretty simple stuff, obviously. It's what we are specialized in, putting the cookies on the shelf where even I can reach them. So because I like the cookies and that kind of stuff. So that's a great metaphor. But the so you can sign up for that if you want to be one of the people watching it online tonight.

It starts at 7 p.m. Central Time at RamseySolutions.com slash wealth. Well, we launched Borrowed Future. You were featured in the documentary, Borrowed Future. Our goal with Borrowed Future was to stir up a holy ruckus and expose the misbehavior of the entire student loan debacle from the higher ed people to the banks to the Navients to the Sally Mays to the freaking congress has lost their mind uh the student loan thing is completely out of control borrowed futures now been viewed by over 150,000 people and is booming too thank you guys for watching it you can watch that on amazon prime anytime you'd like and today it comes out naviant uh this from the New York Times, reaches a $1.85 billion deal to settle claims of predatory behavior.

That's a lot of money. $1.85 billion. Hey, it's really important that we note, Dave, they didn't do anything wrong. Yeah. Yeah, that's what's hilarious. This is one of the largest settlements i've ever seen in my life of anything the government has sued government sues somebody they usually get a little money for the people they're suing on behalf of uh 1.85 billion

dollars and uh mark helene naviance chief legal, who's about as full of crap as anybody I've ever read, quote was, the company decision to resolve these matters, which were based on unfounded claims, allows us to avoid the additional burden, expense, time, and distraction to prevail in court. Honey, you don't give up $1.85 billion with a B if If you think there's a snowball's chance you're going to prevail in court, you might give up $100 million, but not $1.85 billion. A billion is $1,000 million. That's $1,800,000 million. Oh, my gosh, $1,800 million.

I took a day off of work to go sit in court over a 200 ticket one time that i thought i was right on 1.8 billion dollars now hey it was somebody else it was it was other kids navi other kids navi which did not admit any fault in the settlement said it did not act illegally oh of course you acted illegally you don't give up 1.85 billion just predators in your settlement if you didn't do that now here's how here's how wild these figures are okay now to date uh these numbers are a little bit old so i will i will take a pass on this but on my little cheat sheet here to date just under 4 000 borrowers 250000 people have applied for private student loan forgiveness under the 10-year private student loan forgiveness plan.

Okay? 4,000 people out of the 250,000 were actually granted the forgiveness at an average of $87,000 apiece. So here's the irony of this, okay? The entire private student loan forgiveness program has now forgiven way less than Navient. See? They weren't bad people. Way less.

They're trying to be nice. This was their contribution to humanity. They're just generous that way. These Navient people, they're just kind and lovely. You know, that little Sally Mae thing, that thing they had in Maui where they all had a little getaway to celebrate how many people they're just it's kind and lovely that you know that that that little sally may thing that thing they had in maui where they all had a little getaway to celebrate how many people they'd screwed that that really didn't come up oh my god yeah so the deal announced thursday requires navient to cancel 1.7 billion in private student loans which is about 4x what the entire private student

loan forgiveness program has ever done and they had a little bit of a little bitty fine of another 100 million dollars 95 million in restitution but they didn't do anything wrong that's right they're just it's just 1.7 billion in forgiven loans that means they were proven to have screwed those people yeah taking advantage of people that didn't know what they were doing this is a black black business we are in people this whole student loan thing. And if you lefties want to keep talking about forgiving student loans and the Biden administration is going to forgive student loans and all that, that's great. Before you actually enter that discussion with integrity, though, you have to stop making them.

Yeah, what's the plan there? That's like saying, hey, Sheila. You're asking me? I was just thinking like. Was that a rhetorical question? Okay. Hey, John, the house is flooding. It's kind of generally at the universe. What's the plan there that's like saying hey sheila you're asking me i was just thinking like was that a rhetorical question okay hey john the house is kind of generally at the universe what's the plan there i don't understand it because we're going to keep making them so that there's more people we're going to forgive them january 1 and then all these students will enroll the next semester and

keep making i didn't see this i saw this data point today one million fewer college students are enrolled this semester well it's the lowest in 50 years let me tell you what's happening big time i mean this yale lawsuit came up this week too where there's about 10 or 15 of these uh yale mit brown they're all sued for using for colluding on their prices yeah uh so higher ed's getting another black eye especially the famous college right the muckety mucks right they're getting another black eye on screwing their their own people over their own students over but you got a million people saying i'm going to study online i'm going to stay at home i'm just going to get a job you think about i mean the guy called up here the day from michigan state

and said uh he goes i just signed up for all my classes and then they canceled them all and said they're all online he goes i want my money back well yeah i'll go to a cheaper college cancel them yeah and go if you're gonna take online don't pay you know all that price for that absolutely cancel them all get your money back and that's what's happening these guys have forgotten that they are in the business of serving the student um arrogant yeah beyond belief and we're just gonna kovid to shut it down and we're gonna charge you anyway. And the students are going, I don't think so. I think I'm just not going to come.

Let's try that. A consultant came and spoke to us. You may have even heard this story before. Came and talked to us at a university I worked at once and said that he told us it was a parable of some sort about a drill bit company that was selling drill bits. It had a record drill bit year, and the CEO was talking about how many drill bits they'd sold.

And they'd sold a bunch of drill bits and they were heroes. And then the president got up and quietly said, I want us to never forget we're not in the drill bit business. We're in the hole making business. And somebody's going to come make a hole cheaper and faster and better than us than our drill bits. We better be careful. And higher education has to realize we're in the education business, not in the making ourselves look bigger and better than us than our drill bits, we better be careful. And higher education has to realize we're in the education business,

not in the making ourselves look bigger and better business. Well, and not making ourselves look like we are COVID politically correct. Whatever politically correct you are. We're all worried about the odds. Lots of things, that's right. Or politically correct on something else. These kids are dying. Maybe you ought to be teaching somebody something.

I don't know. There's an idea. This is The Ramsey Show. late, a job, your home, your marriage, and your growing family. While you're enjoying the present, you can't help but think about your future and your finances. As you explore your options, consider Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, for your healthcare. Their generous maternity program and budget-friendly monthly programs have been a blessing to members welcoming children into their families. Visit chministries.org slash budget to see if it's right for you. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a Ramsey Personality, is my co-host tonight.

Today. Tonight, we are doing Building Wealth 2022 with Rachel Cruz, George Campbell, and I. We're going to talk about the fastest right way to build wealth. There's a lot of fast ways, but the fastest right way. There's a lot of slow ways, but the fastest right way. Tonight at 7 p.m. Central Time, it is sold out, has been sold out for some time. But you can't sell the Internet out, so you can watch live online with a live stream completely free and if you don't like what you see we'll give you half your money back

it's completely free so uh go to ramsey solutions.com slash wealth and register and we'd love to have you all right let's go to kevin in los angeles hi kevin welcome to the ramsey show thanks dave uh just a quick question when choosing a mutual fund how much weight should i give Let's go to Kevin in Los Angeles. Hi, Kevin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thanks, Dave. Just a quick question. When choosing a mutual fund, how much weight should I give ratings from websites like Morningstar.com? So, for instance, I was looking at two different mutual funds and their performance over the past 10 years. One of them looked like it had been doing slightly better than the other, but Morningstar gave it three stars where the other had five stars. Should I factor that in when choosing? Morningstar's rating is risk adjusted and so they're they're

pulling up the beta the volatility of the fund uh and adjusting on that probably that's how they used to do it i haven't subscribed to them in a long time uh when i was back back when i was in the business and then when i first started on the radio i kept morning star on my computer before there was an internet we used to get cd rom updates quarterly on them and uh so they're an old rating system they've been rating mutual funds a long time but if i remember correctly they're risk adjusted and that may explain it if you'll go pull the what's called the beta the beta is the statistical measure of risk and you'll probably find that three star has a higher beta that to get to a slightly better

rate of return it went through higher peaks and lower valleys does that make sense to you yeah that does make sense i'm guessing but i'm guessing but i'll bet you that's what you find yeah it looked like the other things that we're factoring in were things like how often the fund manager shifted and stuff like that. So, like, not just volatility in the market of the fund, but, like, the volatility of the management of the fund. They would look at that as well. That does make sense.

So it could be that in addition to the beta. Now, here's the thing. If you're looking at fund volatility based on management, more and more of the funds have gone to a team management style rather than a singular rock star manager. That way they're not as dependent on that one guy for their future returns. In other words, if you had a history of 10 years of great returns and it was a rock star manager model not a team model managing it and the rock star guy leaves well the track record kind of

leaves with him right but if you've got a team model and two of the 15 people running the fund that are the brains causing the return to happen over the last 10 years leave well you're probably can say that that history is probably valid for projecting into the future, common sense-wise anyway. And so a lot of the funds have gone away from Rockstar managers for that reason, and they've gone to team management because that validates their historical returns that way into the future and can project them into the future. But you can just look at that. I honestly, I mean, I'll glance at that kind of stuff.

I am mainly looking at the track record, and is there some reason that the track record isn't valid because the whole team left or there's a complete turnover in style or a philosophy shift in the management or something like that unless there's something that invalidates the track record i'm spending like 85 of my issue when i'm picking a fund on track record i'll look at the volatility i'll look at the other stuff i'll look at the expense ratios i'll look at all that other stuff but it's a very small percentage of how much time i spend on that kind of thing and kevin i'll tell you one other thing the fact that you're asking these questions means you're going to win and here's let me give you the reason why there's a a group of actuarial nerds that studies retirement stuff and it's like 17 initials i can't remember the name of it but

i was looking at one of their studies not long ago and they found that 78 percent of the predictive reason for someone becoming wealthy using an investment is savings rate. Now, let me translate that. What that means is 78% of the way you can predict whether someone makes a bunch of money in an investment is if they actually invest. That's what that means. How expensive was that study and the point being though that this group of nerds figured out that you know this nuanced stuff of a beta or an expense ratio or team versus rock star doesn't matter put money into a retirement if you just will freaking do it

you're just like gonna win okay i mean compared to the people who overanalyze and don't do anything, right? And so you don't get caught up in paralysis of the analysis, Kevin. Get her done, baby. That's the moral of the story. So I spend a certain amount of time looking at this stuff, and if one of them starts tanking on me, I may move it, but I'm just putting it in there. When in doubt, swing the bat or you ain't going to hit the ball.

I mean, this is like rock. It's just the funniest thing i've read because because people in the business they all get mad at dave ramsey because he's too primitive and he doesn't actually understand doesn't have the intellect to grasp all of the nuances of the investing world yeah obviously i don't uh but but you know and so but the truth is 78 has to do with whether you actually did it I saw that the other day someone was asking some fitness people what's the best workout and finally one guy snapped and said

anyone that you will do that's the best one just keep doing it get in the game this is some genius advice we're doling out here I'm telling you we get the big bucks John's in Greenville, South Carolina. Hey, John, what's up?

Hey, guys. How are y'all? Better than I deserve, man. How can we help? Good. All right. So me and my wife are both under 26. I'm 24.

She's 23. We are expecting our first child, a girl. Woo! And, yeah, we're super excited. Life's getting ready to rock. I know. I'm telling you. So we're both still on our parents' insurance, and it's great insurance on both sides.

We're wondering, how do we get the baby covered, and what do we need to do to get set up so that when the baby comes, it's taken care of as far as insurance. So your parents, does your parents' insurance cover your maternity delivery? It covers everything up to delivery. It covers all the prenatal stuff, but as soon as the baby is born, it won't cover our dependent then. But, I mean, you and your wife are on two different insurance plans right now, right? Yes. And both of them are that way? Yes, sir.

Wow. I believe so. Do you all work? We do. We both work. Do you not have insurance at work? No, sir. we do we both work do you not have insurance at work no sir we're both we're both working for companies that are small enough that they haven't they haven't gotten uh health insurance programs yet okay two different things then we need to address one is i don't think you're going to

get insurance on a pregnancy that's already on the way nope okay okay that's known as a pre-existing condition um and so you can check with your insurance while you're shopping so first thing is i want you to start shopping for health insurance for you and your wife in the open market and you need to buy it you're like grown-ups with a kid and stuff so you need to get off mommy's plan all right obviously mommy's plan has too much limitations and doesn't cover you and a normal plan will cover normal labor and delivery these days. So just call. You can jump on with our ELPs for health insurance.

Shop around. Get the best deal in your state, in your area for insurance for a young couple with a baby. And you just need your own health insurance. And that will cover the next kid. This kid is going to come out of pocket. What do you guys make uh not a whole lot uh at this point but we've got savings and we've how much savings do you have uh about 5,500 okay i want you to see if you can schedule a meeting with a hospital administrator where the baby will be delivered now go down and

meet with them and say i want to prepay because i'm having to pay cash for this how much of a discount do i get if i prepay you will usually find a 50 to a 70 discount if you prepay in cash because labor and delivery is one of the few times people like going to the hospital. And so it's actually PR for them. They like for you to come there. And they like to get prepaid because otherwise they don't get paid usually. This is the Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Welcome to the Ramsey Show in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Rafael is with us. Hey, Rafael, how are you, man?

Hey, I'm great. How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you live? I'm from Columbia, South Carolina. Awesome nuts. Welcome to Nashville. That's a great town. And all the way over here to do a debt-free scream, how much did you pay off? I paid off $77,300 in two years and seven months. Way to go. And your range of income during that time? It started off at $5,200, and right now I still have to fill out my 1099 form, but I'm guessing it's between $85,000 and $100,000. Good for you.

Way to go, man. What do you do for a living? I am a statistician at the South Carolina Department of Public Safety, and I'm also a business owner as well. What kind of business have you got? It is an eBay store where i go yard sailing and thrifting and then flip it online ah what's doing the best what are you making the most on flipping oh i might get in trouble if i answer that okay okay somebody somebody else will go do it somebody else i won't let i won't make you reveal your trade secrets but i was talking to

a lady the other day a single single mom, who started doing that. And she was buying used clothes for a dime and flipping them for $1.50. That's one way to do it. I mean, little bitty numbers, but huge margins. Yeah, it adds up. And she's making like $10,000 a month profit. I mean, she's just killing it, man. Just killing it.

Way to go. Thank you, sir. Look at you. What kind of debt was your $77,000? It was student loans and a personal loan. The breakdown, I believe, is $66,413 in student loans. And the difference, $10,887 in the personal. Okay.

So what's your degree in? I have two math degrees and a biostatistics degree. I went to a bunch of school for 10 years. I think he's smart. Yeah, I can. I think he's kind of smart. I think stubborn is the better word. I think Raphael's a smart guy.

Way to go, man. Thank you, sir. Look at you. That's so cool. Okay, so after all of that math and all that debt, and somehow that's oxymoronic as it can be, you look up and something happens two years and seven months ago, and you said, game on, I'm cleaning this mess up.

Yes, sir. Tell me about it. So flashback to my first graduate school for my math degree. That was when my parents first gave me the Total Money Makeover book. And I read through it, and I wasn't paying my loans at that time. And I read it, and I'm like,

oh yeah, this makes sense. I agree with all this. I don't have a credit card. I don't spend too much. And at the time when I first read it, to me it was a light read. It is a light read. Yeah.

It's a very light read, especially for people like you. Correct. For a statistician. And flash forward to my last school that I went to, and when I graduated there, that's when, of course, the payments kick in, and that's where real life hits. And I was fortunate and blessed enough to land a job right after graduation. That's the Department of Public Safety. And great job. And however, I was making the regular payments, not knowing where those payments were going. And I guess, you know, you can say I was

living the normal life of just doing month by month. And then the pandemic hit and student loan interest was deferred indefinitely. And at that moment, I thought to myself, man, I could either stay at home and play video games, you know, all the social life is gone, or I can do something else and make more money. And at the same time, that's when two things happened. The first thing is when I came across your YouTube channel. And that was the real one that hit me because I started seeing all these people calling in about their student loans. And a bunch of people panicking. And I'm thinking to myself, oh, my loan's not that bad.

But then the more videos I listened, I got hooked immediately. I started thinking to myself, maybe mine are that bad. I just don't know about it. And yeah, and I logged into my account for the first time and realized how much interest I was losing or how much money I was losing to interest. And I was like, whoa, okay. Now I've been in school for 10 years for math and I'm just figuring out these numbers now.

Yeah, that math addition brain went, whoa. Yeah, it's a little embarrassing, but it was good for me. Okay, so tell me about that because that's a question people have is the math is complicated. It's hard. How does somebody with the horsepower you got upstairs, what's the gap between what you know theoretically in the application in your own house at your time? And I ask this like I know marriage counselors that get divorced, right? So it's that same kind of thing. What's that gap i mean mathematically it all made sense but i was also a college student at the time and like most college students you just don't worry about it

you know you just send in the check so it's you know there's a smart side of you and then there's just the the normal person that you are so so you brought those together yeah i brought this together and um so that was that game on. Game on. And at the same time as your YouTube videos, that's when I started watching videos after work about this reselling business. And so shout out to Part-Time Pickers and the Cincinnati Picker. They're the two godfathers for me that taught me this business. And just like I got hooked onto y'all's YouTube channel, I got hooked onto that business as well and i i spent six hours after work just binge watching and watching them how to do this trade and yeah six months into the pandemic after watching both y'all for half a

year i'm like you know what i'm just gonna do this myself and it was slow at the start but oh my gosh like i love it. Good for you. Yeah, both channels are awesome. All right, so what do you tell people now that you've done it all? You're actually a practitioner. It's no longer a theory. You knocked it off. You paid out $77,000.

What is the secret to getting out of debt? First of all, you've got to know what mess you got yourself into. Once again, like... You've got to admit there's Once again, like, yeah, admit there's a problem. Like 12-step. First way to admit there's a problem. That's the hard one because, you know, you're sending these checks. You're thinking to yourself, it'll go away. But then you look at what's actually happening, and you're like, this is not going to go away for 10 years.

So first of all, just identify the problem and just be true to yourself and be like, all right, I'm going to get this done. Here's the problem. Here's when I want to finish it. And it's just reap what you sow. And the, and you know, the good news is the math's not complicated. They try to make it look like it is. Uh, I think that's big, hairy, big, hairy pays the thing off man that's that simple hey as a fellow nerd there's nothing more humbling than picking up a

book and thinking oh this is a light read yeah and then 10 years later you go it kicks your butt that's a way deeper read than i ever get credit that light read guy kicked my butt good for you for the humility and for just getting after it i'm proud of you, man. So who were your biggest cheerleaders? There's a long list. First and foremost, of course, is my faith. I worked like 14 hours a day, if you include my office job and reselling business. Sorry.

There's just too much that happened that was a coincidence. The fact that I found y'all and the thrifting videos at the perfect time. I'm not a morning person, but these yard sales start at like 5 a.m you became one quick i became one and uh there's only one person that can put that fire so um yeah so definitely credit goes to god uh of course my parents uh they were a little suspicious when i first started this reselling business because uh i was bringing in a lot of stuff into into my apartment and they were like what the what the something are you doing and uh but once they started seeing the results uh they were

definitely on board good for you man yeah they never they never shamed me about it yeah and they're here to cheer you on today yes and. That's very cool. We're proud of you, brother. We got a copy. Go ahead. I also have Caitlin. She's my yard sale buddy. Hey-o. Yeah, she went out with me for a year just yard sale-ing. And she's the one who wanted to thrift with me at first and took me out and exposed me.

So definitely to her as well. All right. We got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. That's your next chapter in your story for sure, brother. Thank you, sir. That's some good math to do. Easy math still. And also total money makeovers.

So count it down, Ruffie House. $77,000 paid off in two years and seven months. Let's hear your debt-free story. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free. Yeah! I love it. I love it, I love it, I love it. I love it, I love it, I love it.

This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today as we talk about your life and your money. Brandi is with us in Sacramento. Hi, Brandi. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. It's so nice to talk to you. You too. What's up?

So me and my husband plan on leaving California in five years when I can retire early from the state and start collecting my pension. So we have sold two of our three homes and have that money just sitting in the bank. And with interest rates expected to rise and inflation going through the roof, where should we invest that money for the next five years? We want to have it, you know, available when we're ready to buy out of state. Yeah. If it were me, I would put a portion of it, if not all of it, in just a simple index fund, an S&P 500 fund.

Okay? Now, what that is is a fund that follows the stock market exactly. It's not going to do better than the market or worse than the market. It's going to be exactly following the market. Now, not the Dow Jones Industrial Average, but it's going to follow what the real market is doing, the overall market. It's the top 500 stocks according to Standard & Poor, and that's the S&P 500. Okay. And so I do that when I'm parking money and uh it's a conservative mid-range

mutual fund investment it's very predictable and it has no commissions on it so you're not going to get you don't you know i don't mind paying a commission when i'm going long term but when i'm just sticking in there for a little while and i'll do that sometimes for a year or two years not even five but when you do it for five you're pretty safe because the market's track record over five year periods of time is very very good to make some money and you don't have to make much here to do better than the bank because the bank just doesn't pay anything yeah and the good news is you're investing basically in companies that are inflation, meaning the things that they make and that they provide are the prices are going up on them,

so they're reflected in your returns. So that's what you call a hedge against inflation when you are investing in the things that are the elements of inflation. That make sense? Yes, sense yes it does so you know but now here's the thing you can what you ought to do is you ought to uh do a little bit of study on that and see what the track record is and say okay how many periods how many five-year periods of the s&p make money and how many lose money and you go oh whoa you know i could lose money yeah you could uh but what's the what's the likelihood based on that i don't know that number off the top of my head by the way um it's the vast majority make money though probably 90 of the five-year periods make

money but 10 of the time you could lose money well based on that i don't want to put it all in there i'm going to put some in cds okay that's fine. But CDs are going to pay you 1%, 2% even if rates go up. And the rates are not going to go up to the inflationary levels because we're sitting, you know, we may see some double-digit inflation. And so if you're not making at least 10% on your money, you're not going to be ahead of inflation. Follow me? Mm-hmm.

You're taking the risk of inflation kicking your butt if you don't invest aggressively enough if you invest too aggressive you're taking the risk of actually losing the money does that make sense yes so that's that's why i do that's what i would do with it it's what i do with mine i just park it there and then any money that it makes you don't have any it hardly has any turnover ratio, so there's hardly any taxes on it until you pull the money out. And then if you did make some money and you pull the money out, it'll be taxed at your capital gains rate rather than your ordinary income rate. So it's even tax advantaged in that sense.

So good question. Thanks for joining us. Colette is in Tallahassee florida hi colette how are you great how are you better than i deserve what's up hey so i'm calling because me and my husband are in baby step two we're going to be done with that by next month luckily at that same time we're going to be getting a bonus from work so that will help fund towards baby step three and so we will be out of baby Step 3 by March. So my question is, we're kind of struggling with figuring out what to do next

after we've put 15% into retirement. We don't have any kids, but we do have a mortgage, but it's a 30-year. So we're trying to debate if it's worth refinancing if we plan to have a kid and maybe move out in like three to five years. Yes, it's worth refinancing if you're if you're interested if your interest rate is high and the break-even is there what's your interest rate yeah 3.5 might not be worth it so what's your balance what's your loan balance uh it's 206 783 okay so if you went from 3.5 to 2.5, you'd save 1% or $2,000 a year.

Mm-hmm. If your refinance costs are $3,000, you would break even in one and a half years. And your refinance costs won't be $3,000. They'll be more like $5,000. Five or six, yeah. So your break-even period is probably going to be like two and a half or three years. And if you're going to move in three years, then maybe it doesn't make sense. In which case, you still would pay down extra on the mortgage you don't have to refinance to pay

extra on it go ahead that's what we were debating i'm not debating anything just chunk it on there it's baby step six it's what you're supposed to be doing because you're not going to lose the money i'm not telling you to spend the money the money's not going away it's going into your house and when you sell your house when you get ready to move they give you a check and all that money comes back to you the best part yeah and you save that interest on that all that time three you save three and a half percent of your money and you can't even put it in the bank for three and a half so pay your house off kiddo pay it off pay it off fast as you can and if you do move uh you can just take that money out of there and move it to the next one uh if you don't move then get paid off uh because we don't know exactly what's going to happen in the next three and a half years none of us do your best laid

plans of mice and men may happen and they may not so good question there i i don't know i guess i do the same thing. I'm trying to think. There's a lot of this stuff. My mind plays those tricks, too. But why would the process change just because we're going to move? I guess, so instead of paying off my mortgage, I'm going to do what with it? Spend it? I'm going to put it in an investment?

Yeah, I think there's the I don't want to put money in my house and then i might lose it if the house goes down in value i think that you're gonna lose it anyway that's the fear if the house goes down in value the the amount owed on it does not affect the value right so if you if it goes down in value below the amount you owe you have to write a check for the difference that's right so you know it doesn't affect that it doesn't cause it to go down in value because you don't owe much on it matter of fact it causes it to go up in value because you're a little bit stronger in your negotiating skills yeah you can you can sit on a little longer i'm guessing that's just people are thinking about selling a house after they bought a house

and i guess it's hard i guess it's hard to try to pay something off emotionally when i know i'm about to turn if i'm gonna turn around flip it i guess i guess that's it i try to pay something off emotionally. When I know I'm about to turn on something. If I'm going to turn around and flip it. I guess that's it. I don't know. I also think, Dave, I think we are in a weird moment in history right now where people are making these plans. We're kind of obsessed. I've got to go do something. I've got to move.

I've got to do something because the world is shaking underneath us, and there's something about being still. It's an existential crisis. That's right. And the first thing we do when we about being existential crisis that's right and the first thing we do when we have existential crisis we run and that's often not the right move is you got to sit and assess and so man honestly people be still pay off your house and just let whatever shaking out let it shake out man unless you're california you can leave right like our friend pat if you're gonna get out of here too late they already knew that that's right good gosh oh the number of people that have left michigan california and new york have you seen

those migration maps i saw the maps yeah you know it's funny i i didn't occur to me oh this is human migration like this happened all throughout history where big swaths of people move here move there for various reasons that's exactly what's happening with the numbers we're talking and politics causes it yeah it's economic tyranny and oppression and jobs the weather causes it i mean the number of people that left new orleans and never went back after katrina junk man there are cajun restaurants all over the united states because of katrina and uh it's just it just really did happen i mean it's like for real. Because, I mean, the number of people that, you know, moved into Mississippi, Tennessee, Alabama to get away from the storm

and then just never went back. That's right. And then just never went back. I mean, that's in the Dust Bowl in the 30s. John Grisham's book, he did a fiction book called Painted House, but it's the whole outline of the the dust bowl and the arkansas oklahoma cotton is just gone about the time henry ford gets everything rolling and so these plants are popping up in detroit and all these hillbillies moved to

detroit to work the plants that was a migration that never went back. That's why there's rednecks in Detroit. In case you were wondering. That's the moral of that story. This is The Ramsey Show. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.