The Ramsey Show - App - DAVE RANT: The CARES Act…Helping or Hurting Americans? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: October 19, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Chris Hogan, Ramsey personality, two-time number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. As we answer your questions about your life and your money, it's a free call at 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Brett is in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Brett. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. How are you doing today? Better

than I deserve, sir. How can Chris and I help? Well, actually, this is a sensitive subject. Me personally, me and my wife, we're on baby step two. We've paid off about $14,000 so far into our debt. We're like halfway done. Good. And we should be done with baby step two in June, which is going to be my birthday present. And then we'll move on to three. But the question that I have today is regarding my in-laws. And I called into the show once. I got all jumbled up. So I wrote everything down here. So if you don't mind, I'll just go through it real quick. Sure. Okay. So I'm concerned that my in-laws lack of financial planning and discipline will ultimately become my family's burden. They have the means to do well, but not

the knowledge or discipline at the moment. They're emotional, not logical. They know there is a problem, but number one, won't admit it. And number two, we'll get upset or feel belittled by me. If I were to express my concerns. How do I help them? How do I have that conversation with them? How do I make it seem like it's kind of like their own idea rather than me telling them what to do? And how do I get them started with Financial Peace University? How long have you been married?

Me and my wife have been together for 10 years, married for three. Okay. And through the majority of your married life, you pretty much were like your in-laws. Yes, exactly. So how would someone talk to you? I mean, I guess it would just have to be a a kind of an upfront situation i uh well i mean what what what happened to you why did you change well i i guess it was because i i just got tired of seeing you know that 35 non-sufficient fund

fee because i had no idea where my money was going. And then you Googled and found Dave Ramsey, or what? Actually, it was my work. I offered the Dave Ramsey program for a year for all of its employees, and I started it, but I didn't actually get into it. And so a couple years later, I had that epiphany moment where it was just like, you know, I'm tired of living this way. I make too much and I do too well to live this way. And that's when I remembered the program. And so I looked it up and actually bought the program myself.

And that was my investment. Brett, let me ask you this, buddy. What's your relationship like with your in-laws? Are you guys close or somewhat close for you no we're we're really close we've uh you know like i said i've i've been uh i've been knowing them for about 10 years now so uh you know me and her dad go hunting and um well you know i think you've got an excellent opportunity to have conversations in love. And what I mean by that is not necessarily telling them what they need to do, but talking about what you've done and what you

and your wife are doing and what it's doing for your relationship. See, too many times we start off and we want to have one conversation. And that's not, that's not, that's a start. That's an introduction. I would have just a series of conversations with him from the heart, man to man. Your wife can do the same thing with her mom, but let them know you're there to help. The crazy thing is, is Dave's been doing this stuff for 30 years, knowing what works. But then you have people that won't do it until they get ready to do it. There's people in my family that don't do it. Yeah.

And I'm freaking Dave Ramsey. I mean, think about that think about that yes so you can't control them you can't control you can't make grown-ups not be stupid but what you can do is talk about what happened to you no one can really debate your story what did you do and you can just say man i was this way and i was tired and i was sick and tired of being broke and i was sick of those 35 things and they had it at my work and then i half butt did that and i blew that off and then finally i hit the wall and this is what happened and man we paid off 14 000 we're gonna be debt free by my birthday i'm just so excited and you know you just all you're doing is just telling your story you

don't have don't say a word about how stupid he is right right just let him like because he he'll figure that part out you don't have to teach him that. Right, yeah. Because he'll give you an opening line, and it'll say something like, yeah, man, I wish I could do that. Really? Do you really? Because, man, I would be honored to help. I'd be honored to get in Financial Peace University.

I'd be your biggest cheerleader, man, if you'd work on it, because I really think you guys could go big, man. It's working for us, but, I mean, whatever you want to do. But if you want some help, man, don't't wish because the genie will come out of the bottle man i wish here he comes you know right but don't but if he just looks at you like you're dumb don't say another word right just talk about your story and you have to be real careful talking to other people's parents anyway so probably she is going to have more influence with her parents than you ever will now hear this too brett you're always going to be an outlaw yeah and you talking about your story is not bragging that's fact you're talking about the facts of what you all

have done yeah right and that's and see i've had similar conversations and it wasn't a bragging thing it was more of like you know kind of just like you said you know just trying to kind of but if they don't if they don't take the bait you can't help them man because yeah they blame it on that i have a better job yeah yeah well here's what here's the thing here's the thing you got you pretend like they're not your in-laws just pretend like they're friends of yours they're a little bit older right how would you convince a friend well you wouldn't get all up in your friend's business. You would be persuasive, and you wouldn't be finger-wagging with your own friend.

And so don't use your father-in-law voice. Use your, I've got a friend who I wish he had more hope. I wish he didn't have such a victim mentality. I wish he would do this stuff. And how can I help my friend have some hope? How can I do that? And if you'll just change that voice in your head, it changes the words you use. No, it does.

That's a good – that changes the narrative too. I mean, just in the approach. And then, Brett, you and your wife having a conversation about what you guys can control, and that's you. What are y'all willing to do and what are you willing not to do? And I think that bond is going to do and what are you willing not to do and i think that bond is going to be absolutely crucial you know uh for you guys to stay on the same page yeah i'm the generation now that i've got all my friends have grown kids right and most of them got grandbabies and so we've all had the conversation my friends you know my 60 year old 55 year old

friends and it's like you can't make your kids behave. You know, what about this kid's doing that? That kid's doing that. And these are 34-year-olds you're talking about, you know? And you go, well, if you use your dad voice on them, it shuts down everything. But if you just sit down and have a conversation as a friend, you approach it differently. The likelihood of them hearing it increases. But it's really all, it's the only thing you got left.

It's the most frustrating stage of parenting because it's the only stage of parenting where you can't tell them what to do. Yeah, I was reading some books and it says, don't use the word should because don't should on people. Because when you should on them, what happens is they get defensive. And I thought, whoa, I'm going to write that down. I need to tweet it. That's a quotable quote. I know. That's one that you steal. You're going to steal it before I get it down there. You're going to steal it or I'm going to write that down. I need to tweet it. That's a quotable quote. I know. That's one that you steal.

You're going to steal it before I get it down there. You're going to steal it or I'm going to. I'm going to do it right now. Don't shoot on people. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs, whether they're anticipated or completely unexpected. For example, take the Olcheski family from LaGrange, Texas. Jeff and Carice had just celebrated the birth of a new baby boy. Shortly after, they had another expensive medical issue come up.

They could have faced a huge financial setback, but thanks to Christian Health Care Ministries, the Olcheskis were spared from a ton of medical bills. As members of CHM, they're part of a group of believers who financially and spiritually support each other. CHM is the longest serving health cost sharing ministry and is a Better Business Bureau accredited charity. It's Christians helping other Christians, and it shared nearly $97,000 to help the Olcheskis. To be a part of Christian Healthcare Ministries, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey personality Chris Hogan is my co-host today here on the air open phones at 888-825-5225

Kyle's in Nashville hey Kyle how are you good Dave how are you and Chris doing? Better than we deserve. What's up in your world? So I was wondering if my wife and I should open an HSA account. We're on baby step two. We are both 28 years old and she has had a medical condition where she doesn't clot if she gets a cut. And in August, it worsened to the point where she needs a weekly shot. And we met our deductible, which was three thousand dollars in one month so we figured we would take the tax advantage and open an hsa agreed and what you run is anything you would she's got an ongoing expense a chronic situation and so what you would have just paid with after tax dollars you're going to pay with before tax dollars now okay and so you know so you figure out say okay how much am I going to need a year

that I know I'm going to have out-of-pocket 100% to keep her alive, right? And that's $3,000 a year? Is that what you said? Yeah. Her individual deductible is $3,000. Your individual deductible is $3,000. How much are you going to need out-of-pocket? I believe that because that's also our out-of-pocket max.

Okay, so it's going to hit, and then it's going to pick up 100% from there, but you've got to pay the deductible, and there's no question you're going to blow through that because of the cost of this. Correct. Yeah, so you put $3,000 in there. Because otherwise you're going to write the check for $3,000 with money that wasn't before tax, right? To get home with $3,000, you've got to make four. And so by putting it in pre-tax into the HSA, it only needs three.

So in a sense, the government, the IRS, income tax is paying roughly 25% of this bill. You see what I'm doing? Yeah, yeah yeah exactly yeah because the you put the money into an hsa pre-tax or tax deductible either way depending on how it's set up but either way you're getting the tax deduction on the amount that goes in there then when you write checks out for medical out of that it you save the amount of taxes by using that vehicle rather than just by writing a check and paying for it. Okay. And so, yeah, when you've got a chronic thing and you're blowing through the deductible, the HSA plan itself is better because it typically has a 100% – most of them are 100% after you meet your deductible.

Some of them have a copay, but most of them are 100% after you meet your deductible. And you can use that, what we're talking about here, to save on taxes when you've got a chronic situation. Yeah, you save on taxes. You save on medical expenses. And you also, you know, it's another tool to be able to save for the future of whatever it is you don't use. So, Kyle, it is definitely the way you want to go in getting that set up. And be praying for your wife's condition, my friend. All right.

Thank you very much. God bless, brother. Thanks for calling in. Brianna is with us in Salt Lake City. Hi, Brianna. How are you? Hi, Dave and Chris. How are you guys doing?

Great. How can we help? So it's been a rough, to say the least, a rough past few months since March, since everything happened. My husband and I are both frontline workers, I guess you could say. My husband is a deputy, and I myself worked in the hospital as a technician for a postpartum unit. And when this had hit, we have four children. And when this had hit, my husband got pulled to the front line of needing to be where positive patients were being spent. So he had to be working security and things like that. So that put us in a situation where I unfortunately had

to come home because we have our kids and no no one was doing any kind of child care at that time. Right. So, and because of that, once you're in the hospital, it's really easy to stay in the hospital, but when you get out, it makes it really hard. And then come May, we find out that I'm pregnant with baby number five. So I'm now currently six and a half months pregnant, and we have four kids, seven and under.

So it's very rambunctious at our house right now. I'm only going to get more rambunctious. Thankfully, though, a job that I've been waiting on since June, I finally got the call last Friday that I have been offered the job and will start in November. You're going to start at eight months pregnant? Yeah. We'll start in November. But our concern is... You're going to start at eight months pregnant? Yeah. I'll be starting at eight months pregnant, and then in January I have to have the baby six weeks off,

and then back to work. So thankfully for me, it's a labor and delivery unit, so I'm already there if anything happens. But we've been trying to work with my husband's income pretty much since May or since March and it's not enough it hasn't been enough and by the grace of Heavenly Father we've been able to make it and still be living where we live and putting food and taking care of transportation and things like that. But that's all we've been able to do.

What a year. So how can we best help you today, sweetie? So we're just trying to figure out, like, when this all started before, at the beginning of the year we were starting on your baby steps. But this was right around the same time when everything hit. And we've just been doing, you know, just keeping food, shelter, and the main necessities. Good. That's what you should have done. Yeah. And so now that we are going to be coming into where we're going to have income again, and it's stable income, we don't want to screw up.

We've screwed up in the past. Well, part of it was health things for me and some not so smart financial decisions where at 25, we had to file bankruptcy. So we don't want to screw up. I grew up where I didn't have the best examples for taking care of money and things like that where as a child i knew too much that no child should know when it comes to income because those are adult things and i don't want my kids to know about it they don't need to know about it they just need to worry about being kids and so i want to make sure that we do what needs to be right when i start going back to work. Good. You have had your never-again moment. Yes.

Never again am I going to be in this situation. The 2020 dumpster fire got your attention. Yeah. I've had a never-again moment, but when everything hit and life really, really hit hard. Well, you weren't ready. You had just started the process, and so you weren't ready for the storm when it came. But now you've got a highlighter on it, right?

Never again. Now you've got a highlighter on never again. And so you're not going to live like this anymore, right? Yeah, right. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. Exactly. This ends with me tired of being sick and tired. Exactly. This ends with me. My family tree changes here.

Yes. My husband and I are still fairly young. We're both 28, and actually the hospital system that I got into, it's an HCA hospital system, so I'll be able to go and finish my nursing stuff and get that taken care of and not have to have to worry about that debt. Because I have old debt from previous student stuff. Well, we're going to walk with you and show you how to do it, okay? This is what we do.

Thank you. I appreciate it. We exist for people exactly like you. Everything we wrote, everything we do around here is people just exactly like you. People who are ready. They're sick and tired of being sick and tired. They're saying never again. I don't like this fear. I don't like this uncertainty.

I'm not living like this anymore. When you scream that at the sky, God will answer your prayer and Ramsey stuff will show up on your doorstep. Yep, yep, definitely. Well, Brianna, I just want to encourage you to make sure you're staying connected with your husband. And just as you shared from the heart, I want him to understand and feel that. But at the same time, I want you to hear what he's feeling. And then what you do is you go to brainstorm mode. What do we got to do?

What's next? What are we willing to do? And in brainstorm, don't start judging it. You start to put down some ideas of how to bring in some extra income. Cause it sounds like to me in the back of your mind, you're trying to, yeah, she's eight months pregnant. Yeah, that's true. But you're, you guys need to brainstorm and he needs to identify what can he do to bring in extra money? And it's a season. It's a year or two. He actually did. He actually did find extra income, the county to have something through a security system. Perfect.

Well, you hang on. Kelly's going to pick up. We're going to pay for you to go through Ramsey Plus for a year. That includes every dollar. That includes Financial Peace University. And the two of you get in a class get going, you can do this you can turn this around, if you need our help, we're here you call us, this is what we do

you're going to be fine, now this is the of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Courtney's with us. Hi, Courtney. How are you? Hi, guys. I'm so good. How are you? Welcome. We're glad to have you. And you're from where? I'm from San Antonio, Texas. Cool. And here to do a debt-free scream? Yes, sir.

Love it, love it. How much did you pay off? I paid off $40,048. Mm-hmm. How long did that take? 15 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? I started, my base pay is about $76,000 up to about $110,000 with bonuses and side hustles. Good for you.

What do you do for a living? I'm a nurse by trade, registered nurse. I work in sales for a pharmacy. Cool. And what did you attack what debt did you delete out of your life or forever well i was pretty normal um i had about a thousand dollars in medical bills ten thousand dollars in credit card bills a ten thousand dollar student loan and about a twenty thousand dollar um vehicle car loan yeah did you sell the car or

pay it off i wanted to i considered selling the car but i didn't i ended up paying it off good for you yeah i love it i love the car and i've heard you say yeah and you did it really really fast thanks so what got you so fired up tell us your story um well i mean growing up like that was just pretty normal right we had the big car and or the big house nice cars. My parents talked about credit cards. I didn't hear about savings. But that was just kind of the life that I then led. And when, so all through my twenties as a nurse, I was making good money, but I was just spending all of it all the time. And I was kind of ashamed of that. I think that for a long time,

I had this like revolving debt that I was waiting to like get married and have him come save me financially or something. And in my 30s that had not happened. And I just had a lot of shame around having all this debt. I mean, I made a lot of money and I had nothing to show for it. Was there a certain moment when you kind of got the wake up call? The phone rang and you're like, hello, wake up. Yes. My wonderful friend, Thea, who came and did her debt free scream just a couple of weeks ago.

She I had never heard of you. And so she introduced me to you and invited me to come to the FPU class. So her and I are actually leading our first class right now. Oh, wow. Very very cool you guys are doing one together yeah we're co-coordinating yeah that's fun yeah so i mean i think her invite kind of hit me at the right time i was like juggling i had been like putting all my balances on zero percent cards and just trying like feeling like i was doing something um i had bought a house i told them like give me as much money as you can for

what I make. So then I was house poor. I felt like I was never going to be able to get out of it. And so when she told me about the class, I came in thinking there's no way I'm getting rid of my credit cards and there's no way I'm getting rid of my car. I did get rid of the credit cards. I cut up 13 credit cards in my plastic. All right. Good for you. No more. It's a magic number. Yeah. 13.

Yep. So I did keep the car, but I hustled. Man, I hustled to pay it off because I didn't want to get rid of it, but I also didn't want to be paying off debt forever. I hear you. So. Well, 15 months is pretty quick. A little over a year.

Yeah. I did a lot. And Kelly, our assistant producer in here she said that since all this has happened you got out of debt and then you got married i got engaged just a week ago um uh yeah there he is and um he's been a huge cheerleader huge supporter his family actually grew up um i mean he grew up with dave ramsey and so his mom is watching right now oh so you're wearing you're marrying a financial peace baby. Yeah. And he knew that there was no way I'd say yes, if he financed it. So I told him that Sharon had less than a quarter carrot to start with and I'd be fine with that.

So you are focused now. We're going to focus together. You know, one of the things that really struck me in the FPU class is I am a nurse, right? Like I love people. I want to be able to give. And I was so stuck on me and what I was trying to do, trying to pay off my own stuff that I had no ability to be generous. I could not do that. And so when we watched that lesson in the class, it was like that is what I want. And that's why I'm going to get out of debt and stay out of debt and build and be able to give and grow and help other people. That's so fun. So

I've been able to help a few friends with it too. They've asked me how I did it. So I've been able to walk them through it. Just like your friend did for you. The word continues to spread. You know, there's something that we've observed over the years. Um, actually Billy Graham even said this about just someone being introduced to god he said at first when we're introduced to god it's for selfish reasons and then later on it becomes noble and sometimes when you start this whole financial peace university journey or this idea of getting out of debt i'm doing it just because i'm tired of the stress i'm doing it because of me because of me me me me but pretty quickly it takes on some kind of a nobility i want to change

my family tree i want to be in a position to be outrageously generous i it takes on some kind of a nobility. I want to change my family tree. I want to be in a position to be outrageously generous. It takes on a sense of nobility, and when it does that, people get really fired up. You can only get so fired up for yourself. But when you're doing something for the kids and to change the family tree, you're doing something to be outrageously generous for others, it adds a level of just power to the whole thing. It really does. And you just have this glow about you.

She does. Like she's just got engaged. Well, did you ever think you were going to be able to pay this debt off? No, I didn't really even know that that was an option. You know, being debt free, I thought I'd always have a car loan. I'd always have student loans. I mean, thinking about paying off that mortgage that I probably shouldn't have gotten into is like, man, I just can't even believe what I'll be able to do, what we will be able to do when we do that. All right, co-coordinator, tell people how you get

out of debt. You did it. You're a hero. You're a hero. You took control of your life. Yeah, I mean, I just surrendered. I just said, this process has worked for millions of other people. It can work for me. There's some really simple steps laid out. And then I did what was recommended. I really believe that a budget is not limiting. I didn't at first, but after listening to Rachel, after doing it in my life, I mean, a budget is just a plan.

It's just a plan. And I felt so much hope when I would do my budget, and I'm like, oh, my God, I can put this much towards my debt this month. Or I can save this month. I'm almost done with baby step three. All right. Fantastic. Fantastic. Yeah.

So have you guys set a date for the wedding yet? Not yet. We're looking at venues. I mean, it's been like 10 days. Okay. All right. A little early. A little early.

Dave, don't put that pressure on this man. You just gave her the ring. I'm not putting pressure on anybody. I'm just trying to figure out what's going on. We are going to have a plan. A budget. We are going to stick to it. Somehow I knew this. Do it cheap. Do it cheap. It's for you all, not all these other people that want to show up.

My mom will be happy to hear you say that. Well, you are absolutely incredible. You're a hero. How old are you? I'm 33. And you completely took control of your life 15 months ago. How does are you? I'm 33. And you completely took control of your life 15 months ago. How's it feel? It is incredible. It is like the most hopeful feeling. And to know that, I mean, although I am with someone now, I did most of this on my own. I mean, I thought I was never going to get there. And I just, I feel so like accomplished. So wonderful. Like a grown-up and everything.

Oh, you're something else. You are something else. I love it. Well done. Well, we've got a copy of Chris Hogan. This guy sitting here wrote a book about millionaires. We've got a copy of it because that's the next chapter in your story for sure. No question.

That's where you're going from here. That's the next step. And so well done. Thank you. Very well done. Thank you so much. Very, very well done very very very proud and thanks for all you guys do i mean it's it has helped millions of people and that is i'm one of them you know i didn't come up with this system so i'm just really glad that you guys are here well we're honored we're honored you're why we do it very well done all right courtney from san antonio tex $40,000 paid off in 15 months, making $76,000 to $110,000. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Yeah! Oh, that was strong. That was strong. You know, there is tremendous dignity in hard work, and there is dignity in accomplishing goals. Yes, sir, there is.

I love that word. I feel so accomplished. She didn't think she'd ever be able to do it. Accomplished. Yeah. You know why? Because she did accomplish something. She sure did.

No one gave it to her. Nope. The government didn't send her a check. She's not waiting on someone else to fix her life. She got up, left the cave, killed something, and drugged at home. She is accomplished. Yes. $40,048 deleted out of her life.

And now she's moving forward with her next chapter along with her new fiance. Outrageous generosity is in the future. Yes. Because I'm accomplished. Yes. That phrase. If you hear that scream and you want to do yours, get on over here and check it out. Go to DaveRamsey.com.

The plan is laid out. All you got to do is work it out. There you go, baby. This is how it does. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. If you're a business owner or you're in charge of benefits for your company, listen up. Your employees are facing a huge problem right now and they need your help. Thanks to the pandemic and the rule changes from the cares act american employees are taking money out of their retirement accounts at a crazy rate this is a

problem employees all over the country have already taken out more than 12 billion dollars out of their retirement because the stupid butt government told them they could this is a bad idea stealing their futures from themselves good news is we can help you get control of your finances and stop the stupidity can't force them to stop it but you can teach them and uh it's a we have the best the when we invented the term financial wellness program we actually own financial wellness.com it's It's called SmartDollar. Employees using SmartDollar have averaged a $16,200 financial turnaround in the first year. And you have the power to give them the plan that shows them how to do it as the employer, the HR person, the employer that cares. So to learn how to help your employees stop stealing from their futures and other financial mistakes, go to smartdollar.com slash retire.

Again, smartdollar.com slash retire. I did not know that number. I didn't either. So I'm over here writing it down going, are you serious? The sheer amount of years. You and I predicted that when the CARES Act came out. I didn't predict that number, though. Not that number. I just thought it would be stupid on

parade, and it apparently is stupid on steroids. The number of years of going backwards just suddenly just erased because the government decided to have a fantastic idea on how to save people. And now people are going to be working longer and harder if they don't get

plugged into a plan. Well, who's going to pay for it when they get to retirement and they're broke? That's right. It's going to fall to family members. Yeah. So here's the deal. If you're out there and you are in HR or you work with a company, it's time for you to be a hero. Your team members have the desperation right now at the highest level.

They don't know where to turn and who's going to be there to help them. You have an opportunity to step into that gap. Smart dollar. We'll be able to guide them. Dave is teaching. Rachel's teaching. I'm teaching. We're walking them through it and people need hope right now. So don't turn a blind eye to it anymore.

No more. Go to smart dollar.com. $12 billion. That's amazing. That's astonishing and he didn't even need it nope i mean dave how what the number of years wiped out on average i'm going to do some math to find out well i don't know how many people did it right but i $12 billion, it's amazing.

I mean, because here's what you and I know. Here's why I'm groaning. We know that that money was going to turn into $100 billion for the private sector individual, not a company, not a government agency, a private sector individual to retire on and change their family tree. It would change their lives, change their estate. And instead, we know where the money went. It was consumed. Yes.

So now Chevrolet has the money. Ford Motor Company has the money. It was consumed. Banana Republic has the money. Amazon.com has the money. It was consumed. Banana Republic has the money. Amazon.com has the money. It was consumed. And so it's gone. Consumed means gone.

Oh, that's just the economics of the stupidity of what Congress did with the CARES Act. The CARES Act is 2,300 pages long. They didn't read it, and they passed it, which they've done that before. It was called Obamacare. And how come every time they don't read it, they put CARE in the name? Because they want you to feel loved? I care. I care. And here's the thing.

They removed the 10% penalty, but guess what they didn't remove? The taxes. The taxes you have to pay in the next two years. So the income to the IRS was increased by taxes on $12 billion that they would not have gotten this year. While America is

shut down, in many places still, and people don't have jobs, but the IRS's income goes up. So we can have a two but the IRS's income goes up. So we can have a two-year ripple from this one decision. I'll try a decade. Seriously. Oh, my God.

Okay. Oh, it gives me a headache. I need some Pepto. I don't feel good. Yeah. See, when you move money from private sector wealth to consumption and the government, this who got it all the government got a fourth of it in taxes sure did easily and so that we increased the government's income by four billion and then we increased all these companies incomes those people were starving to death they

were not starving to death we're not starving to death they weren't i mean let me tell you not to that not to that range not to that point point. They just said, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, I can get my money without a penalty. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. And that was step one. And Congress is so smart, they're my new financial planner. They said, take it out. No penalty. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.

That's all it was, was the little four-year-old ooh, ooh. And when you have a four-year-old ooh, ooh, that's right before you lose your butt. You get to oh my god yeah oh the implications of the stupidity of policy so here's a i mean art laffer talks about this there's a really good thing to do when you're in government and they're really good at it but they don't do it often enough nothing that's what they should do. Nothing. Let this play out. Nothing. The PPAP loans are an absolute unmitigated disaster.

Total disaster. They're turning into loans. Yep. The extended unemployment, an unmitigated disaster. You had entire industries trying to reopen, and the workers wouldn't come back to work because they can sit on their butts at home and keep getting checks. And make more than what they made working. It's an unmitigated disaster when your government governs.

Oh, God. They got one job, Dave, and that's keep us safe. They're good at that. Yeah, just one job. Just do that. Love our military, but oh, my God. This is just, I mean, I could go on for about 45 minutes here, and I've got about three. Golly.

$12 billion. I did not know that number, for real. Poof. Poof. $12 billion. It's one thing if the government loses $12 billion, because they drop a billion here, a billion here. Oh, yeah, it's no big deal. But these are people.

These are people just – they pull their money out, and in 90% of the cases, I know they consumed it because I know what happens all the time. Oh, yeah. They can't tell you what they could show for it. A year later, where'd that money go that we cashed out? I don't know. We just know penalty.

We had 25% taxes, but we didn't have a penalty. And if you would have just had an emergency fund in place again harping on this need it harping on this to get that in place just get on beans and rice and do the four walls and work three jobs i mean you don't you don't don't it's a trap oh god you could undo 10 years of working and depositing into your 401k with this one CARES form. One stupid loan. One signature. Just undid that 10 years of work for a lot of people.

And let's not pay off our student loans because they're interest-free. Let's stay in debt. That's the other thing. Free student loans. No student loan interest. So let's just stay in debt. Stupid! That's stupid!

Oh, my God. I think you could go down the CARES Act, and we ought to just rewrite it and call it the So let's just stay in debt. Stupid! That's stupid! Oh, my God. I think you could go down the CARES Act, and we ought to just rewrite it and call it the Stupid Act and just break it down for everybody because the PPP loans, the extended unemployment, from the feds, no less, the now $12 billion worth of damage to individual wealth pockets, just gone. It's just evaporated you know how hard it is to get you guys to get 12 billion dollars in your 401 case and then you piss it away because the government comes along and says you don't have a penalty and you go buy crap with it it's gone you just consumed it it just evaporated into the dadgum economy and you'll never and then you're broke you're broke well because the government cares

they named the act the cares act they must care stupid policy when you start monkeying around with stuff that you don't know what you're doing and apparently no one in congress does it's the island of misfit toys and they pass this stuff it has 1212 billion. I just want to cry. The implication, the legacies. The number one thing we found in the study of millionaires, how they became millionaires, was their 401K.

How many millionaires did we just kill? Just, oh. How do you kill $12 billion worth of millionaires? Because if they took out $100,000 in five years, it would have been... Oh, God. Yeah, it would have just grown. Oh, my God. All right. We've got to regroup. All right. Yeah, I need some coffee. Yeah, we need to do something. I'm down.

I'm going to quit reading government stuff. I quit watching the news because of this. And now I read the news. $12 million worth of stupid... Oh, I'm so sorry, people. Don't. This is The Dave Ramsey Show.

Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about an event, product, or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes or head to DaveRamsey.com. Thanks for listening.