The Ramsey Show - App - DAVE RANT: The Socioeconomic Sequence for Success (Hour 3)

Episode Date: October 23, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. David is with us in Ohio. Hi, David.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, sir. Thank you so much for having me. Sure. What's up? So my wife and I, we're on baby step number two, and we have about $30,000 left in student loans. We hope to have those paid off maybe by the end of the year.

My father is going to gift us about $35,000 worth of stock. It's in stuff like Amazon. Should we keep that as stock when he gifts it to us, or should we use it to pay off the remaining balance on our debt? I would use it to pay off the remaining balance on our debt? I would use it to pay off the remaining balance on your debt. Okay. You know how I quite decide that so quick? Let me walk you through it. There's a thing that the Harvard Investment Newsletter uses called a sunk cost analysis,

and it teaches you to reverse engineer these decisions. And the way that sounds like is this. Let's pretend you had no student loan debt. Would you go take out a student loan to buy Amazon stock? Absolutely not. Which is essentially the same thing if you don't use this to pay it off, right? Sure. By keeping it, it's as if you bought it with student loan debt because they're on each side of the balance sheet. Is that logical to you? Yes, sir. Yeah, so now your dad's basis in the stock will become your basis with it being a gift. And so you're going to pay capital gains on any gain over what he paid for it.

Sure, so I will pay that gain. He will not have to pay it. Yeah, exactly. And you have a gift tax situation if somebody gives you more than $15,000. Now, is your dad married still? No, sir. Okay, and are you married? Yes, sir. Okay, he can give you $15,000.

He can give your wife $15,000, he can give your wife $15,000. If he does more than that and doesn't do some paperwork and a thing called the Unified Estate Tax Credit paperwork, he's going to end up having gift tax on anything over $30,000. Sure. And I suppose we could split that up over the course of the end of this year and the beginning of next. Exactly. So he could do $30,000, $15,000 to you this year, $15,000 to your wife this year, and January 1st, do it again. Okay.

And so if you break it up a little bit so that you don't get over, and it's four different transactions, you know, or at least three, $15,000 to you. If he wants to go ahead and move $30,000 to you guys on this calendar year, he'd move $15,000 to you, $15,000 to your wife. Mm-hmm. He can't give it all to you if he wants to go ahead and move 30 to you guys in this calendar year he moved 15 to you 15 to your wife he can't give it all to you okay okay and tell him to see his tax his tax advisor and then you got to figure out what he paid for it his stock broker or whoever he how he handles his stock will have a basis on what he paid for it and And if his basis, in other words, his investment into this stock is $15,000 and he gives you guys $35,000, then you have a $20,000 gain you're going to pay taxes on when you sell it because you inherit his basis or you get his basis transferred to you on a gift.

And this is a gift so um you'd have taxes of about 15 uh about 3 000 bucks in that in that little example i had sure okay that makes sense so just be looking at all of that and you know do the gift tax thing right do the naming of it all right but definitely i would cash it in and use it for this. Now, of course, that's all assuming that you're going to play through. You're going to get out of debt. You're going to stay out of debt. You're going to live on a budget.

You're going to build your emergency fund. You're going to start building wealth because that's going to give you much more wealth than this stock would have given you. Absolutely. That's true. Yeah, we're not going back if you don't play if you don't play through and you go back to your wicked ways you know then you've just wasted your dad's money then yes sir that's very true okay cool hey good question thank you for joining us open phones at 888-825-52 It changes everything with what you do with an inheritance.

Are you honoring the person that passed away and left you something? Or honoring the person who gave you a gift? It changes everything if you play through or not. If you don't play through, you've dishonored their intent. Because their intent was to prosper you. Their intent was to be a blessing to you. And if you just simply consumed it, then, you know, and I did that. My grandmother passed away.

I was in my 20s, I guess. And they sold the farm, and there were 9 million grandkids, and each of us got $5,000. I still have no idea where that $5,000 went. So I dishonored that inheritance with my consumptive, stupid-butt 20-something ways. And so that's what you don't want. You don't want to have that as part of one of your psychological scars like I do. You don't want to look back with that horrible taste on the back of your tongue called regret. And so just, you know, play through, play through.

And then you go, well, you know, Grandpa would have been proud. Grandma would have been proud. Papa Dave would have been proud. That's my grandbabies right there, right? I want, you know, people say, what would Dave do? I really want my grandbabies going. What would Papa dave do i really want them doing that big time and more importantly what would the lord do right more important than me by far but what would papa dave do what because i want i i really i definitely want to guilt trip them from the grave grave open phones at 888-825-5225 all for their own good of course all right colton is with us

in tennessee hey colton how are you doing pretty good how are you better than i deserve sir how can i help okay so i got a question for you so my wife and i are 24 years old. We have no debt. We have about 11 months' worth of money in our emergency fund. Too much. And we have currently maxed out our Roth IRA for the year. Okay, so my question is, we're moving to Knoxville at the end of the next summer for me to go to college. So my wife is going to be switching jobs. So we have an unknown salary and an unknown amount of scholarship money my wife is going to be switching jobs so we have an unknown salary and an unknown amount of uh scholarship money that i'm going to be getting so my question is should we

invest that extra money in our emergency fund no we've been looking at like like properties or something like that no no no no no no no. What are you going to be studying? Wildlife management. Okay. And so you're going to make more as a result of getting this degree, I assume. Yes. Yeah, my plan is to become like a wildlife officer. Okay, which will make, you need a four-year degree to be a wildlife officer?

You do, yes. Okay. Didn't know that do yes okay didn't know unfortunately didn't know that okay um i don't know what they make but um interesting i think they start around 50 000 a year and then it's government job yeah it goes up from there okay well the best investment you can make assuming you have a good career choice, is you. Not property, not mutual funds. And so I would pile up cash to make this dream happen. Pile up cash to make the move. Pile up cash to pay for the degree.

No borrowing. Pile up cash and invest in Colton. You're a better investment than a mutual fund is. Business leaders, if you're not using LinkedIn jobs, you are missing out. Our Ramsey Solutions company page on LinkedIn has over 100,000 followers. That's over 100,000 potential like-minded people our team communicates our current openings to. We also post on LinkedIn Jobs because we know the right person will have an impact on our company for years to come. And LinkedIn Jobs matches the right person with the right job. It's no wonder a hire is made every eight seconds on LinkedIn and over 600 million members visit LinkedIn to make connections, learn and grow as professionals and discover new job opportunities. In fact, LinkedIn members add 15 new skills to

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to Dave Ramsey dot com slash check up today Wesley's with us in California. Hi, Wesley. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hello, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. My pleasure. How can I help? So I've been following your advice for a couple of months now.

I'm relatively fresh. But what's going on is my fiancé of seven years just gave birth to our second son. First son is six years old. And in those six years, we've racked up about $25,000, $27,000 of credit card debt. It's all in her name. I've got about $3,000 that I let go after he was born, but they've stopped hounding me for it. I'm trying to set up a budget now. I work full-time bringing in about $27,000 and just can't seem to get the budget to click

properly. Need some advice from you. Okay. Does she work outside the home? She's a stay-at-home mother. Okay. You have a fian fiance for seven years she's the one that's been putting off marriage because she's afraid of taking that next step forward and she's not afraid of having babies

that's wild man okay cool all right i'm just i'm Painter, get off the ladder. Okay. So what I would do is put you on an every dollar budget. It's completely free. All right. Hello? Okay, and I've already done that. Okay, good. So you've got it all written out every month you're doing that. Are you going over that with her?

Yes. I'm slowly starting to get her to come around and get on the plan as well because I don't like having to be the sole provider and just not know where the money's going. So I want both of us on board with the plan. Amen. Well, y'all don't make much money, so you've got to really make it stretch. I mean, a family of four, if you were married,

a family of four with two children making $27,000 in California is probably right at the poverty line. Yeah, and luckily we don't have any rent to pay because we're living with her family, which is a toxic environment, but at least it helps us save some costs there. Yeah, okay. So how old are you? I am 28. And what city do you live in?

I live in Marysville, which is just outside Sacramento area. Okay. All right. And what is your long-term career goals? That, honestly, I don't even know what I would like to do. I just see myself jumping from job to job until I find something that sticks and being able to provide for my family. Okay.

Well, I've got a son that's your age. He's 28, okay? And so I'm thinking of him right now, and I'm thinking if he was in this situation and he sat down and said, Dad, I'm going to have a cup of coffee. What do you think about this? Okay? Here's what I would tell him.

There's a lot of statistical correlation between people winning with money and their overall quality of life in getting things in the right order about getting married and having kids. You got some of that out of order already, so let's get that corrected. This is what I would tell my own son, okay? You do what you want to do. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. I'm not trying to be mean to you. I'm saying I love my son, and this is what I would tell him, okay?

Then the second thing I would say is you're starving to death, and you're living in a toxic environment that you're forced to live in because you're starving to death and you're living in a toxic environment that you're forced to live in because you're starving to death and so you desperately need to start setting some goals and having some clear vision for your life on your career side because where you live is not an inexpensive place to live and you don't make any money i'm not picking on you and i'm not talking down to you but you know dude your life would change dramatically if you made $75,000 a year.

Obviously, you know that. And so what are we going to do? And let's spend some real energy, some quiet time on the back porch with a cup of coffee, and even if you have to go to the neighbor's because there is no quiet time in this toxic house, sit on the back porch with a cup of coffee somewhere and go, okay, God, what am I going to do so that when I'm 42 or I'm 28 now, when I'm 38, I'm well on my path to earning a considerable amount more in something that I enjoy doing and that I'm gifted at doing. What is that?

And you kind of have to brainstorm that and pray that through and just have some quiet time and, you know, watch the mist roll off the river or whatever and kind of get this dialed in. But, you know, I used to go down to my lake house, for instance, and take a yellow pad and just spend a day with me and God walking around just talking to him. And what do you want me to do this year? What do you want me to do next year? What do you want me to do 10 years from now? And thinking out into the future, because you can get caught up in the day-to-day diaper changing

and the day-to-day crazy mother-in-law stuff, and all of a sudden you look up and another decade has gone and you're sitting exactly where you were. You've got to do something that gives you a vision and pushes you out into the future and start setting some career goals, because a lot of what i'm hearing from you is you know mathematically you're not doing a horrible job with the money you have coming in you just don't have much coming in and i'd love for you to have a plan that says i want to be one of those and i'm going to go study these three things so that i can be one of those and i'm going to get about that business because that gets me out of my mother-in-law's house.

That gets us in a position that we get rid of this debt, all these old bad debts. I can go back and clean them up. I can really get my freaking life together here, but it's going to require a very careful and intentional series of steps. If you continue to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result, that's the definition of insanity. I'm going to jump from job to job to job and hope this works out. It's not going to work out. It's not going to work out.

You need a path. And I'm going to fight, and I'm going to scratch, and I'm going to claw, and I'm going to grind, and I'm going to hustle to work that path. And that's going to get me there. And that'll change your life. That'll put you into classes to take, certifications to take, degrees to get. That'll put you into mentorship programs, apprenticeship programs.

It'll put you into all kinds of things because that's what it takes to go that path. And you ask yourself, what has to be true that's not true today to be one of those when I'm 38? And then get about that business. And, sir, that'll change your life. Because you have all of these negative variables controlling you right now. And I really, really want for you that you get to control all these variables. Instead of this lack of money, the bad career, the bad housing situation, the old bad debt, all of this is pounding you,

and I want to get you up on top of it where you're pounding it and you're making it behave. That's what coffee would sound like between me and my son if he came in with your exact set of problems. And I would tell him to paint or get off the ladder. I really would. Because I just did. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Folks, let's cut through the bull.

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761 Old Hickory Boulevard, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. So a lot of people get really upset with me when I tell someone to get married. So let's just kind of understand, yeah, there's a moral component to that for me. I'm a Christian or a spiritual component to that for me. I'm a Christian. That is not what's driving the discussion as much as the practicality. And actually, they all do work together. There's a reason morals are there.

There's a reason spiritual guidelines are there from God. But aside from that, whether you're a person of faith or not, the data points are there. Let me kind of walk you through this. Professor Bill Galston, who was President Clinton's domestic policy advisor and a senior fellow at Brookings, they did research, and he said, listen to this. In America today, in North America, you only need to do three things to avoid living in poverty, statistically. Marry before having a child.

Have that child after age 20. Graduate from high school before you do any of that. Graduate first, get married before kids, have kids after 20, and 97% of the time, you do not live at the poverty level, statistically. Those are called data points. When you get simple things like that in the right order, now if you didn't do that, I'm not mad at you and I'm not shaming you. I've done a lot of stupid things in my life.

But don't get all pissed off at me and call me all these names because you feel condemned because you got stuff out of order. The data points say, this is Brookings Institute. This is not the Catholic Church or the Southern Baptist Convention. This is Brookings doing statistical data analysis. 97% of the time that you graduate from high school before having a child, get married before having a child, and have the child after age 20,

you will not live your life at the poverty level. When you get those things out of the order, it exponentially goes up that you will be living at the poverty level. So that's why I talk to a young man like that, because I care about him and I know what the data points are. These are statistical. I mean, if you know anything about statistics, I mean, people, when they're doing elections, like presidential elections,

if you can get anywhere up in the high 40s, they start declaring you a victory, right? If you got a 48%, you know, you're probably going to be president. You know, that kind of thing. 51%. This is 97%. That's like every time stupid that's what that means another report shows us that focusing on millennial millennials the same number comes up 97 of those who follow the success sequence earn the high school diploma

work and marry before having children will not be poor as they enter their 30s. And that is true of all ethnicities in this study. Another study, only 4% of homes with a married mother and father in the home are on food stamps. 21% of the homes where people are cohabitating and 28% of the single mother homes are on food stamps. Only 4% where a married mother and a married father are in the home with the child. There's a direct tie between how you view family structure and your economic benefits. There's a direct data point to this. And it goes on and on and on and on and on from there.

Well, 52% of the marriages end in divorce. No, they don't. No, they don't. Number one, that statistics are straight up bogus people made that up and it's one of those snopes thing you can't find it you cannot find the piece of research that says that what you can find is if you graduate from college if you regularly attend a house of faith regardless of the type of faith, Jewish, Muslim, Christian, whatever, you regularly attend a house of faith, you graduate from college, you get

married before having children, you have children after you graduate from college, you make $50,000 a year household income or greater, your divorce rate is only about 4%. These are all variables you can control. So the divorce rate happens among different socioeconomic settings, people who make different choices in their lives, and they get themselves painted into a corner, and it blows their marriage up. And you can keep going from there, by the way, if you want to. Just keep studying all these indicators of a stable, character-based life,

and you always see that tied back to economic data. We saw it when we started studying millionaires, the 10,000 millionaires we studied in that research project. We saw it again in there now we weren't researching to find these socio-economic decisions and that the um the so-called success sequence that's in these you know graduate high school then get married then have kids after 20 that's the the research success sequence that's been done on several projects but guys if you want to you you know, here's the thing. You got three kids and you make under $30,000 a year of household income,

you're right at the poverty level according to the Fed statistics of what the poverty level is. You're single, you make $17,000 a year, you're right at the poverty level. Now, is that a bad thing? No. One year I made $6 six thousand dollars i know how it feels i'm not i'm not talking down to anybody i'm a redneck hillbilly guys i get it okay i understand i've been there i am that guy at times i've done all kinds of stupid butt stuff in my life but the thing is there's a whole lot of the things that happen in your life

the vast majority of them that are are holding you back, that are your choices. They're your choices. Substance abuse, your work ethic, your decision to work while you're at work, your decision to tell the truth and be a person of integrity, your decision to tell the truth and be a person of integrity, your decision to not steal. These are all decisions that you can make, and they affect the course of your life. They affect you this week, next week, and 10 years from now.

And there is a high correlation between those kinds of character-based decisions and whether or not you succeed financially. It is not merely a debt snowball, guys. If you lie, cheat, steal, and sleep around on your wife, the debt snowball is not going to help you much because marriage is grand, but divorce is 50 grand. You get to cut everything in half when you do that and start again try cutting it in half about three times and starting again you got to make a whole lot of stinking money to offset that puppy it's cheaper to keep her baby

i'm telling you these life choices are real. But in this politically correct speech Nazi culture that we live in, we're not allowed to say out loud that your character impacts your life. Well, I just did. And there's 17 million of you listening. And if you're really upset with me right now, it's okay. You can go listen to somebody else. I understand.

I'm not mad. But they call this the Dave Ramsey Show for a reason. Because it's my freaking show. And if you don't like what I'm saying and you want to say something else, get you a show. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our scripture of the day, John 8, 3. Jesus said, if you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. Jim Rohn said,

Amen. Now, just to recap some of the things I was just saying, I do want you guys to hear loud and clear, too. I am going to hold you to things that are going to cause you to win because I care about you. But in no case am I going to be mad at you for having done something stupid because I have a Ph.D. in D.U.M.B. I know what stupid looks like up close and personal. I've done it. So if you've done something that, you know, that brought harm to your life, I'm not mad at you.

I'm going to help you with it. But I just, you know, all of you guys out there who don't want anyone to say out loud that choices have consequences, and you come up with some kind of, I don't know, left-wing terminology about being woke or something, you're just probably not going to like this show, because I'm just going to tell you the truth even if it hurts your little feelings, because I care about you. But it's not going to be I'm not here to shame anybody. I'm not here to condemn anybody. But I am going to shame and condemn choices that don't bring you a good life because they've done that to me when i made bad choices it brings pain into my life and

shortage and uh hostility and everything else and i i'm not exempting more than you are from that so we're going to work through this together boys and girls that's how this works all right changing the subject moving on who's on the phones looks like jessica is up jessica's in florida hi jessica how are Jessica, how are you? Good, how are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help you? So we've got a situation.

I just listened to you say about marriage. We're not married. We've been together about 10 years. But I have two of my children, and we ended up taking in four children that needed help. Wow. Big heart. Big heart.

Yeah, big. Okay. So we've had them about three, three and a half years. I don't foresee them ever leaving us. Gotcha. Are they foster or are you adopting? We're permanent guardians. Okay. Does the state of Florida kick in and help you in that case?

Not really, no. Okay. No, because it's kinship. I got you. Okay. How can I serve you today? So we have, we had a piece of property of our own that we were living in. And when we took the kids in, we had to up and move.

You know, we had 24 hours to make a decision to take them in or not. We up and moved, basically. Our house was too small to home them. And we're now at the point that we need to sell it as soon as possible because we are renting. How long ago did you move out of it? It's been exactly a year. Why did you not put it up for sale immediately? We were hoping that we were going to be able to build on it,

but it's become more of a problem. I call it the black hole property. So it's been sitting empty for a year? Yes. Okay. Yeah, let's get a sign on that thing, like by nightfall. I've got a sign on it. Good.

Okay. With a good real estate agent? Yes. He seems to be doing pretty good. I just now actually learned about your EOPs. Okay. Mm-hmm. All right, that's fine.

So how long has it been up for sale? It's been up for 20 days. Okay. Have you gotten nibbles? I've got, yeah, we just did a showing. Good. What is the price? We're asking $195.

Okay. And what do you owe? About $70. Okay. Good. And when is the foreclosure? Is it scheduled yet? No.

We just got a 30-day notice. That you're behind or 30 days before they start the foreclosure uh 30 days before they start and in florida how long does that take um according to the real estate attorney that we spoke with it could take three to four years no no it doesn't take three to four years to do a foreclosure in florida i didn't think so. No. I think we need some more information.

You probably could just do a simple Google search and learn. I don't know what it is. In Tennessee, it's 30 days. Yeah. But Florida has some unusual real estate laws, and it's a little bit longer. So the bottom line is that we need to find out how long this fuse is that's burning towards this bomb. Like a Wile E. Coyote cartoon, okay? Yeah, because I don't want to lose it.

Exactly, because we're going to cut the price progressively until it sells to protect the equity. Because if it gets foreclosed, you get Zippo. Yes. And if you sell it for $100, you get $30. So we're selling it for something. We're selling it for something before the bomb goes off. Agreed? Yes.

So let's do a little bit more research. Talk to your real estate agent and see if he knows or she knows anything about foreclosures in your area. I don't know the Florida law. I used to buy foreclosures all the time in Tennessee, so I know Tennessee inside and out. But Florida and California have very different real estate laws. And so Texas has very different real estate laws, three states. So you'll want to learn what it is. It's not three to four years, though.

That's some kind of bogus, somebody telling you not to worry about something that you do need to be worried about. I do think it's longer than 30 days in Florida. I think it's probably more like a six-month thing you've got. But you progressively each month drop the price on this and run a reverse auction until it sells. You get rid of this property. That's what it comes down to, as fast as you possibly can. And you don't have to give it away for $100,000 a day,

but two days before the foreclosure, you sell it for $100,000, even if it's worth $195,000, because in two days it's worth zero. So you get it while the getting's good. But let's run a reverse auction, figure out what your timeline is, and then divide it out and start dropping it $5,000, $10,000 a month until it sells and to get rid of the black hole for money and put some money in your pocket to help you take care of these babies and help you get housing situated to match your large heart.

And it's a good thing you're doing. You're sweet people. All right, Peter is with us in Ohio. Hi, Peter. How are you? Good, Peter. How are you? Good, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve.

How can I help? I'm a little nervous, so I kind of want to get this out right for you. Okay, no troubles. How can I help? I just found you last week on YouTube. I started listening to the podcast. I'm actually driving home from my hour-and-a-half-long commute from work. I'm still in the car as we speak.

I got off an hour-and-a-half ago. Anyways, I started the Baby Steps. I'm on Baby Step 2. Bringing everything to my wife right now and kind of bringing you to her basically. And I guess I want to know, I'm kind of just trying to make sure I'm doing it right. What is your question before I run out of time? Is my commute digging into my budget too much?

Sure. Yeah, you're spending three hours a day on the road. It's eating a car, it's eating gas, and it's eating your life. What would prohibit you from moving closer to work? It was a promotion, actually, to go up there. Okay, so move. We have family here that helps take care of our little guy move your little guy never sees his dad three hours a day in the car that's not a life man i wouldn't do that i have a seven minute commute so i have nothing i got no

nothing to compare this to. And the only thing I got at home other than sharing is a Shih Tzu. So no little guy at home worried about it today. But, man, I mean, you don't understand how much of your life is being burned up in that car. Now, it's not a panic. You don't have to do it in a heartbeat. You don't have to do it instantaneously. But you do need to make a move sometime very soon, either out of that job or up to where that job is.

It's untenable, man. Life's no fun at your place. You're not having fun. That'd be driving me crazy. I mean, you do what you want to do, but you call me and ask. That's what I would do. I'd be out of there. Hey, thanks for the call.

That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Thanks to James Childs, our producer. Madison filling in for Kelly today as our phone screen and associate producer. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show.

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