The Ramsey Show - App - DAVE RANT: We Already Know What's in Your Wallet! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 30, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Well, front and center in the news cycle right now, 100 million Capital One customers were hacked. Everything you need to know about data breaches, but we're afraid to ask.

Capital One Finance Corp. announced late Monday that more than 100 million people had had their personal information hacked. The hacker got information including credit scores, balances, zip codes, email addresses, dates of birth, self-reported income, payments histories, fragments of transaction data, and the Social Security numbers of about 140,000 customers and about 80,000 bank account numbers from credit card customers. Banks that will offer free credit monitoring services to those affected,

consumers and small businesses who applied for credit cards from 2005 through 2019 are most at risk. The hack affected about 100 million people in the U.S. The company couldn't say for sure whether the data leaked was used for fraud, but said it was unlikely. First heard about the hack on July 19. Waited until July 29 to inform customers as it sought help from law enforcement to catch the alleged perpetrator, which has been done, by the way. Capital One's offered $125 to anyone whose data was hacked or free credit monitoring for 10 years. However, privacy experts say credit monitoring only looks for changes on a credit report,

indicating that someone is using your personal information to open new accounts in your name. But it does not prevent someone from taking out a loan in your name. Such security precautions are unlikely to help people protect against a hack like the one Capital One announced Monday. Exposure of data that can't be changed, such as social security numbers, are the hallmarks of a particularly severe data breach. So we've got an inside source at the ad agency for capital one and you know their slogan is what's in your wallet they're going to change it to we want to let everyone know

what's in your wallet or possibly we could be the side of our another one they're experimenting with they're going to focus group this what's in your wallet oh wait everyone already knows that's another possible slogan for them they They could change it to that. Fun picking on Capital One. They're an easy target to pick on. So, by the way, let me let you know how much of my data they got. None, because I don't do business with people like Capital One to start with. And I certainly wasn't applying for a small business loan or a credit card with people like Capital One to start with.

And if you've been listening to me, you wouldn't either. So you wouldn't have been vulnerable to putting up with this crap. Oh, wait, we already know what's in your wallet. So this article has a couple of good points. So it says, check your accounts. Check to see if your accounts have been affected, if you are a Capital One customer, and know the difference between a credit freeze and a lock. A freeze means a consumer cannot take out a new loan or a credit card without unfreezing the report first.

It also prevents a hacker from taking out a loan in your name. False. It only prevents a hacker from taking out a loan in your name if the lending institution checks your credit. Only two in ten credit card applications actually have the credit checked they issue them to dead people and dogs eight out of ten times if you're breathing or not or if it's you or not or if it's a shredded application taped back together or not they will issue the card eight out of ten times without checking and freezing will not help you with that mine's frozen too my account has been frozen which has a big zero on it anyway but that's my

credit score is zero i don't have a credit score because i don't love fico i don't worship at the altar of the great fico oh fico you are our provider thank you great fico no we don't do that stuff here so anyway don't have that problem but everything's frozen but it still doesn't keep you from someone from opening a loan only if the credit institution making the loan is smart enough to actually do a credit check. And they don't always do that. Kind of seems like common sense, but they don't. Number three, sign up for an additional fraud protection, which we do recommend. We've always recommended Zander Insurance's identity theft protection.

I carry it on me. I carry it on all my family, all my team here. I have got it as a employee benefit and what the difference is and what they said is correct earlier in the article uh indicating uh you know credit monitoring doesn't help because they can take out a loan all credit monitoring does is go oh we're monitoring the fact that you just got your identity stolen and uh that's all it shows up. It at least tells you so you can go do something about it.

The better ID theft protection companies like Zander assign a caseworker to the problem to help you go fix it and get rid of all the crap out of your life, which $125 won't even touch the hassle. See, you're not liable if someone opens an account in your name fraudulently because it's not you that did it. But you have to go prove six ways from Sunday that it wasn't you. And so there's police reports and affidavits and notarized documents and all this garbage you have to go through. And you'll lose 600 hours on an identity theft, 600 hours getting your life back if your identity gets stolen like this.

So, you know, go ahead and get with Zander Insurance and get this stuff in place so someone else does all that work. Because it's just a matter of time before someone has your numbers. You don't have to do business with a company like Capital One to get your numbers stolen. I mean, there's been hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of these things. Know the difference between a hack and a breach. A breach is when a company, doesn't really matter much on that. I don't know why you don't even know the difference. But a breach is just when there's a vulnerability and we left the door open, but nobody stole anything.

You know, a hack is where a robber kicked in the door, went in, took all your stuff. Okay, that's a hack. And this girl, I read a couple articles about this girl that was the hacker. I don't know anything about it other than what I read about this morning when I saw it. Paige something. She used to work for Amazon Web Services, which they're having a happy day now, knowing that their former employee is a cyber a domestic cyber terrorist um because let me just tell you when you do this it costs people regular people and

companies this is at least a hundred million dollar theft and everybody's acting like oh she thinks she's an anarchist let me tell you what I think she is. She's a freaking criminal that ought to be put under the jail and not be let out for food. She's not an anarchist. She's a cyber terrorist. A domestic cyber terrorist. It's not cute. You're from Seattle. It's not funny.

You're not vogue. You're not cutting edge progressive. You're not resistance. You're a criminal. a world class criminal the fbi came to your house criminal go to jail do not pass go do not collect 200 criminal this is not cute it's a hundred100 million minimum expense that she has extracted on society because she's pissed off at the world and has some skills. Put her in jail so that we can let the rest of these cutesy little hacker butts that think they can do this crap get away with it.

Put her in jail. She's a criminal. Was I unclear? I sure hope not. Capital One, what's in your wallet? Oh wait, everyone already knows. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Let me tell you a story about two families that are very much alike in a lot of ways. Both families have two working parents and a couple of young kids.

Each has debt and has struggled to make ends meet, but they're starting to make headway with their budgets and smarter decisions with money. They have dreams and plans, and the only real difference is that one family has the right amount of term life insurance and the other doesn't. Big difference. If one of the parents die, and that does happen. Their well-being would be destroyed. Paying for the mortgage, utilities, food, and other bills would be impossible, let alone saving for education or retirement. That's why every day I talk relentlessly about getting term life insurance. Just go to ZanderInsurance.com or call 800-356-4282

and see how inexpensive it really is. Be the family that takes those deliberate steps to be different and responsible. It really does make you the hero of your story, and it puts you on course for better things ahead. Scott is with us to start this segment off in Illinois. Hey, Scott, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So my wife and I are on baby step two.

We've got roughly $195,000 in debt total. About 20 of that is car, nine of that is IRS, and the remaining is student loans. We're fortunate enough to make around 140 thousand dollars a year and have a plan to pay that off in 25 months. My question is whether or not I should sell my car, which is about 19,000 of the car debt, in order for a smaller car to make the process go a little quicker. Okay. How fixed or locked in is your income? Do you see during the 25 months much change in your income? It's only going to go up from there.

I know, but I mean, is it going to go up a lot or is it going to go up a little? I don't think it's going to go up a lot. It could fluctuate maybe another $20,000 in that time. Okay, which you don't have in your calculations? No. Okay. And so what do you guys do for a living? We both work for the state government and social services,

and my wife is an author as a side business. Okay. So you're not going to get big pushes on state government raises. Are you got side hustles, either one of you other than the author thing? Yeah, I detail cars, I do grow above and door dash. I am writing a book also that I'm hoping to make some money with. Cool. So that's the that's the extra push on money you were talking about. Okay, good. Right on On the income side of the equation. So the rule of thumb we generally use is if your car is keeping you from getting out of debt in two years,

or if the total of your vehicles added up in value equals more than half your annual income, which both of these, the answer is no. I mean, it's not keeping you from getting out of debt in two years. You've got a 25-month schedule that's likely going to become a 20-month schedule as you hustle and grind and create income. So you're inside the two-year mark. It's less than half your annual income. Do you like the car?

Oh, yeah, I love it. Okay. What is it? What kind of car? It's an Audi S4. Oh, yeah. Nice vehicle. Very nice.

Okay, cool. i'd keep it okay it doesn't solve your problem you see what i'm saying yeah yeah if we could sell something and get 195 000 or get 120 000 for it or something yeah we might be looking at that you know but you don't have that laying around oh No. So how old are you guys? I am 30, and my wife is 32. Okay, good. You're in great shape. I mean, by the time you're 35, you're going to be out of debt. You have your emergency fund in place, and you'll be on your way.

You're doing a good job. Congratulations. Very, very proud of you. Good work. Samantha is in Colorado. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Samantha. Thank you so much. How can I help? I am a new listener and I want your advice on retirement contributions. I've only been able

to contribute starting in the last year now that I'm out of graduate school. So, interestingly, how do I do some catch-up on this, and then how to balance employer contributions and personal contributions. Gotcha. Okay. And do you have any debt? No debt, other than house payment. Phenomenal. How old are you? 32. Good. Single?

Nope, just newlywed, actually. Oh, fun. Okay. So what's your household income? Household income is about $350. It varies. Wow. Good good for you what do you guys do for a living um i'm a research scientist and my husband is in sales oh good okay you guys are killing it well what we recommend is that baby step one you save a thousand dollars you've done that two is you're debt free other than the house you've done that three is you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses do you have that done

yes okay good then we maybe step four we call it we put 15 of your household income into retirement savings and so that's 45 52 000 roughly in your situation okay if i did that in my head quick enough anyway um 15 of 350,000 okay now then how do we decide back to your question where to do that first and what order what's the what's the best what's the next best is on we call it rock paper scissors except there's only one direction that wins okay so my employer actually this is kind of where it's tricky. I know that you do recommend that 15%. My employer actually puts an automatic, not a match, automatic contribution of 14.2%. That's not in our equation, though. We're talking about you.

I would do 15 on top of that. You would put in 15 of your household. Yes, you put in 15. The extra 14 is just gravy on a biscuit. In your case, a lot of gravy on a biscuit. That's awesome. You know, a gravy-filled biscuit. So you have a 401K.

You have a Roth? So you have 401A and 403B, and then, yes, IRAs rolled into backdoor Roths, yeah. Okay, why are the A's? What are they after tax? You're talking about a Roth? A 403A is an after tax. No, a 401A is my employer, is what my employer puts into, and then the 403B is what I can contribute to.

Okay, all right. But they're going to put that in whether you contribute or not. Do they have an additional match to what you actually contribute? No. Okay. I think we're probably going to end up doing all of it, but here's the order. Okay. Take a match first, which you get the match.

Does your husband get the match at his place either way? No. His doesn't have that option. Okay okay do they have a 401k at all yes and he maxes that out okay well you're going to max yours out he's going to max his out that's going to get you to about 40 grand uh you can do a couple of backdoor roth iras uh into some good mutual funds as well that's probably going to get you up to about 15 so match is first but it doesn't apply with you all because what match you get, you get regardless.

It's not really a match. You just get it. Then the second best thing in rock, paper, scissors is Roth. And so we want all of this to be in Roth that can be. Put as much of it in Roth as it can be. If they offer Roth at your work or at his work, take it, okay? And certainly then do some backdoor Roths. Now, do you know what a backdoor Roth is?

Yes, and that's what we did. We contributed up to the max last year in IRAs and then did the backdoor Roth. Okay, then if you've maxed out your 401Ks and maxed out your Roths, I think you're at 15% of 350. Okay, yeah. I didn't know if I should do more than that, though.

No, that's where we're going to start. And then that's baby step four. We're going to shut down at 15% of your household income. And then baby step five is kids college. Have you got kids you need to save for? We don't, but we did start a 529 already. You can't start a 529 for someone that doesn't exist. It's in our name, and then our plan is we'll change it once we have children.

You can't transfer a 529 from an adult to the child. You can go sibling to sibling, but you can't go adult to child. Oh, and you're misinformed about that. Double-check me. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. Sometimes I mess up. I do. I've been known to. When I do, it's kind of embarrassing't think I am. Sometimes I mess up. I do. I've been known to.

When I do, it's kind of embarrassing because there's like 15 million people pointing out that I did. But check. So double check me. But I'm pretty sure unless this last law change did that. And I don't think it did. But look at that. So anyway, 529 is baby step five. When you have kids, you don't have to worry about it today.

Baby step six is pay off the house. So I'm taking any other found money. And you should have some in this wonderful income household of yours and start throwing at my house get the house paid off when that's paid off then it's just max out everything and um you know save what you can invest what you can wherever you want to in you know it's going to be non-retirement wealth building but there's certainly nothing wrong with that and what sharon and i done there, because our incomes have done similar things over the years, they became ridiculously wonderful. You know, we've maxed out everything, and then we just save up money. And, you know, we either are investing in mutual funds or we're buying real estate that we pay cash for.

And I'm a love real estate, so I've got way too much in the real not too much most of mine is in real estate other than my retirement investing and so i got a lot in the stock market and mutual funds a lot but i've got more in real estate but that's just because that's my personal slant on it what i love so hey thanks we appreciate you joining us open phones at 888-825-5225. By the way, backdoor Roth is for someone that makes more than $200,000 household income. You're not allowed to do a Roth IRA, so you open an after-tax IRA and roll it 20 seconds later into a Roth. It's completely legal. It's a loophole in the law, but people do it every day.

I've done them for years on me and Sharon. And so you can put the max in there, 6,000 bucks, 7,000 if you're over 50. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We've been voted one of the best places to work in Nashville 11 times. You want to know how we do it? Well, our team has been using LinkedIn jobs for years to find the best people from all over the country to come and help us change lives. Think about it. LinkedIn has more than 600 million active members. I'm talking about people who come to LinkedIn to make connections, grow their careers, and discover new job opportunities.

In fact, 90% of LinkedIn users are open to new opportunities, but not actively scanning job boards. This means LinkedIn Jobs gives you access to an entirely different demographic. Don't wait. One hire can change the direction of your company. Post a job today at LinkedIn.com slash Ramsey and get $50 off your first job post. That's LinkedIn. That's linkedin.com. Terms and conditions apply. Lisa is with us in Arizona.

Hi, Lisa. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Well, thanks. It's great to talk to you. You too. What's up? I'm in an odd situation. I've been a stay-at-home mom for 12 years and finalizing a divorce.

And in the divorce, I'm not getting anything, but I am getting the house. So the net proceeds from the house will be all mine. It's about $300,000. And I have some ideas on how to allocate that, and I thought I'd cross it by you. Okay. So I don't have any debt leaving this divorce. Good. Mm-hmm. And I will have a deficit.'t have any debt leaving this divorce good and um is there any debt is

there any debt in the marriage there is but that's part of our divorce settlement is that i mean it's so little we're good we're good about not having debt so okay but your name your name is on it but he's being told to pay it in the divorce. The debt. My name is not on it. No. I mean, sort of, but. Not sort of. It either is or it isn't. Did you sign for the debt?

No. Okay. Because there's not a sort of. I mean, if you signed for the debt. I said sort of because the mortgage, right? But we're selling the house. Oh, I got you. Okay.

Yeah. The other debts, though, you do not have your name on at all. Correct. Good. Okay. I'm back with you then. So you're getting $ debts, though, you do not have your name on at all. Correct. Good. Okay. I'm back with you then. So you're getting $350,000, and you're how old? Almost 50.

Okay. Kids at home? Yes. So I have two young kids, and so in the divorce, my monthly expenses will be short by $3,000 because his support will not meet what I spend now. So my idea was that I would use some of the money from the house to meet this deficit, some to put into emergency fund, and some to put into retirement. Okay, and how old are the kids?

I have a 12-year-old and a 6-year-old. Okay, and what is the amount of your monthly support? $2,000. Oh, yeah, okay. And so you figure your budget's $5,000? Yeah. Okay, and you're going to rent a house? I'm currently renting a house, yeah.

Okay, and that is included in your $5,000 budget? Yeah. Hmm. house yeah okay and that is included in your five thousand dollar budget yeah hmm i i the only thing i don't like about your plan is that um i don't like a deficit like this that doesn't have an end to it there's no there's no there's no future back to school oh okay you know what i mean you're going back to school i'm going to try be going back to school. Oh, okay. You know what I mean? You're going back to school. I'm going to try to go back to school. I mean, I didn't sign up yet because I wanted to cross this by you, but yeah.

But obviously, I have to get work, so that would be part of it. I don't think I can make a whole lot of money, to be honest, if I'm not in the workforce for so long. I got you. I got you. So you're thinking of going back to school to study what? I don't know. Okay. I got you. So you're thinking of going back to school to study what? I don't know. Okay.

Be a nurse. I'm not sure yet. I got you. Okay. Yeah. So how fresh is all this divorce? We just submitted the, I mean, it's now. Okay.

So you just came to agreement on these terms recently? Correct. Okay. I'm sorry. It's a very painful time all right so here's the thing i don't want you to have a three thousand dollar burn rate and burn through the only money you've got so we need an end to this and you don't have to decide today but you just need to give yourself a deadline that says i'm going back to school study something and start my career by x okay okay two

years yeah two years whatever something like that right if you got an undergrad already yes okay so if you went back into a two-year nursing program or something as an example okay that would be you know then we've got 36,000 72,000 that's going to burn for two years at your $3,000 burn rate. Okay? You can't keep going long on that with only $350,000. So, no, I wouldn't put any into retirement until you've made the transition into your new career. Okay. Just let it sit there.

This money is to help you with your encore. You know, when the curtain goes down, curtain comes back up, and you take a bow, you're encore. Oh, this is it, baby. This is it. This is your encore. The last act is the best act, and this is yours. So whatever it is you want to do, you get to do it now. And the good news is you've got the money to take care of your family and fund your education. If you don't get anything out of this but that with this $350,000,

I'll be okay because you're going to be okay for the rest of your life if you get yourself in a position to produce an income. But that's what we've got to get to, and I just don't want this money to burn up because in the process of emotionally healing from as much pain as you've been through, you delay too much your encore. I know, yeah. It's easy to do. What about emergency money?

I think that's critical. I think the whole thing is emergency money. I mean, that's really what I'm saying. It's an emergency to temporarily feed the deficit, the burn rate. It's an emergency for you to get back into school, and then you've got a portion of it that is truly for rainy days. But, I mean, you can carve that up. If you said, okay, two years is my deal, then I need a $72,000 account over here.

That's my burn account. Over here, I've got to have $30,000 for my emergency fund, and that leaves me $150,000 to get through school, which you should be able to do and come out with some money. I'd like for you to come out of school and have $100,000 left. It sounds like you can. Yeah, I think I can. And at that point, at that point, I would think about investing. But you might, as you go through, I mean, you're right now in the worst of the pain.

So even though we're having a really good conversation and you're obviously very bright and very articulate, your brain is working as poorly right now as it's going to. I mean, it's just in survival mode. I know, I know. You're just hanging on. Everything's a raw nerve. And so, you know, you'll be thinking clearer in four months is what I'm saying. But when I get this money and they put it in my hand, do I, you know, put it in a savings account?

Yeah, just park it in a money market at a bank. Okay. And don't touch it. Well, I need to touch it for the deficit. No, except for the deficit. I mean, you don't need to go buy something to feel better. Be careful. Guard yourself against that. the deficit i mean you don't need to go buy something to feel better be careful guard yourself no i don't i don't i don't have you got are you uh are you in a good church by chance i'm not in the church okay have you got someone in your life that will get in your face if you start doing stupid stuff oh yeah i'm extremely disciplined that's why we're not in debt no i said have you got someone in your life that will get in your face?

Do you have someone from an accountability standpoint that you can use right now just to make sure? I don't think you're going to. I don't hear any of this. But if anybody's going to screw up big time, it's when they're right here. You know? Yeah. You're at a vulnerable time, and I'm trying to put a wall around you to protect you and sometimes protect you from you a little bit and that's all i'm saying so if you got a really good girlfriend or a mom that's a little bossy or something like that this is a good time to have them know what's

going on and just go i promise if it's over a ten thousand dollar expense to talk to this person of wisdom first and that's your accountability person part person a person of wisdom the person of wisdom loves you with all their heart but will tell you the cold unvarnished truth because they love you they will not say oh yeah that's smart and then go home and go that's the dumbest thing i ever heard no they will just tell you that's stupid don't do that you're hurting your brains are not working don't do that don't do that don't do that i have an idea too that you might start a business i don't know i'm going to send you a copy of christy wright's book just in case it's called business boutique equipping women to make money doing what they

love and you've got a little capital if you want to start a little small thing and you've always had a dream of that, that might be cheaper than nursing school and it might make you more money. I don't know. It's whatever you want to do with your life. I'm not trying to tell you you have to. But four months from now, you might be able to breathe a little bit more and that might make a lot more sense for you. So, hey, thanks for the call.

Open phone is a 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Man, I'll tell you, going through a divorce is hard. Going through the illness of a loved one is hard. Going through the loss of a loved one is hard. And if you're not very careful, we all have a tendency to buy things

to make ourselves feel better. Be careful when you're in those painful times. Retail therapy is not a cute joke. It's a stupid idea. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Roger is on the line in Colorado. Thank you for joining us, America. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Roger is on the line in Colorado. Roger, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Dave, thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I've got a two-part question regarding tithing. The first part is I help out a relative with a couple hundred bucks every month. Can that be considered tithing? And then the second part is I'm not associated with a church, so instead could I give to, for example, St. Jude? You certainly can give to anyone, and that's certainly a wonderful thing to do outrageous generosity is the hallmark

of people who build wealth and enjoy wealth and have the best mental health around their wealth the wealth doesn't become a toxic thing and so outrageous generosity is always encouraged the ways encouraged. The word tithe typically is applying to a biblical situation, and the word in Hebrew, when you look it up in Hebrew, in the Old Testament literally means tenth, one-tenth of your income. And the primary people that discuss tithing from a religious standpoint, from a biblical standpoint, would be Orthodox Jewish and evangelical Christians, not even all evangelical Christians. But the vast majority of evangelical Christians teach to give a tenth of your income to your local church, because the local church represents the Old Testament storehouse, which took care

of the Levites, the pastoral tribe of Israel, took care of the pastors and took care of the widows and the orphans. And the local church is supposed to do that. And a lot of times does does a great job at that. And so as an evangelical Christian, I give a tenth of my net income, not net of taxes, but my net profits from our business and from any other sources of income to my local church. Now, it sounds like you're not involved in a local church, and so it may not have to do with your faith walk. It just may have more to do with generosity.

So it's just a matter of a technical definition of the term, you know? So if you say, hey, because I'm not involved involved i'm still going to give 10 of my income that's fine you could give 11 of your income you could give eight percent of your income it's fine but the definition of a tithe is local church local synagogue if you're jewish and it's a tenth of your income now again it's okay whatever you do outrageous generosity is a wonderful thing, and it is building your character and turning you into a better human every day that you do it, which is why those of us that are people of faith have it as a part of the rhythm of our life.

We want it to be a spiritual experience to grow us, and that's not going to change with you. It's just the format is going to change. Does that make sense? Yes, with you. It's just the format is going to change. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. So you can give whatever you want to give. There's no limitation on it. But again, it's just a technical definition.

Is that okay? Yep. Thank you for the call, man. We appreciate you joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. And for my brothers and sisters in Christ out there, my fellow faith walkers out there, you know, you can get real caught up in the legalistic aspects of giving sometimes. And sometimes you can get too caught up in not observing some of the principles of giving

as a part of your faith walk. Dallas Willard in his book, Spirit of the Discipline, says the tithe is one of the spiritual disciplines of our lives for those of us that are people of faith. And so regular church attending evangelical Christian, you know, that kind of a thing. Or, as I said, Orthodox Jewish. Same thing. or as I said Orthodox Jewish same thing so if it's a part of the rhythm of your life it makes you into who you're supposed to be

and that's the purpose for it it is not a thing where you're earning God's favor he doesn't love tithers more than non-tithers he's crazy about all of you even if you don't think he's there he's crazy about all of you. Even if you don't think he's there, he's crazy about all of you. That's not the point. And so it's not that, you know, and I think you're going to be hard-pressed to scripturally prove that, you know, tithing causes you, causes God to give you money.

That's not what happens. But I'll tell you what does happen, regardless of whether you're doing the, you know. When you give with the right heart, you are a grateful person, a generous person. And grateful and generous people are highly attractive people. They're fun to be around. You want to be with them. Not because they're going to give you stuff i don't mean that but they're just they're the ones that are smiling they're happy and they have a tendency to have opportunities come to them for those reasons because they don't look like they were weaned on a pickle you know they're in this you know scowl on their face all the time.

And so generosity changes who you are. It makes you more attractive. And when you're attractive, you know what that means? It means you attract things. And so that's what ends up happening. That's why givers have a tendency to prosper, because givers have a tendency to be better people over time rather than selfish jerks. Right. So this is true for all of us and uh and but those of us that are people of faith that's it gets sometimes a toxic uh spirit over it and everybody's all

twisted up like i had one coach one financial counselor tell me one time he would not help someone with their money problems if they would not tithe i'm like yeah somehow i don't see god doing that wait i am not going to be your god unless you tithe it doesn't there's just nowhere in scripture that says that none whatsoever so no i'm just going to help you i i don't care whether you agree with me i don't care i don't put up with people that don't like me. If you're going to be mad at me all the time, I'll just block you. I can't believe Dave Ramsey is so thin-skinned he blocks everybody on Twitter. It's not thin-skinned.

It's just if you hate me, what's your point? You're too stupid to not follow me. I can help you with that. Block. You know? That's what it amounts to. So, you know, if you don't want to do this stuff, it's okay. You don't have to do it.

I'm not going to make you do it. amounts to. So, you know, if you don't want to do this stuff, it's okay. You don't have to do it. I'm not going to make you do it. But it's not, you know, so you just kind of get in there and figure out, all right, what's a toxic view of this and what's a proper, wise, kind, generous, grateful view of this? Really good question. Thank you for joining us. Angie is next. Angie's in Connecticut. Hi, Angie. Welcome to Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So, I'm a brand new listener

and I've been listening to you for about just five months and I've already downloaded the Dollar App. So, I'm excited about that. I've got that ready to go for tomorrow, actually, August 1st. So, I'm just about that. Got that ready to go for tomorrow, actually, August 1st. So I'm just trying to wrap my head around your program. So for your baby, well, I'm on baby step one, right? So baby step number four says to, at that point in time is when you want to be able to put into retirement. But I've already had funding or distributions with my employer because I've already been here 13 years.

We have a 403B with a match, and that is tax-deferred. All of them are. All of them are. Right. So what I'm trying to understand is if removing it helps me. I didn't say remove it. Well, okay, I guess right now to stop it at the process. Right. Temporarily stop adding to it to get out of debt.

Right. So currently right now it's tax deferred. So in doing so and following your program and stopping it, I will then, in my head, this is where I'm thinking, it's like the net is going to actually, my net will be less because I will then, in my head, this is where I'm thinking, it's like the net is going to actually, my net will be less because I will have greater deduction to the government. There's no tax rate in excess of 100%. So if you stop putting $1,000 in a tax-deferred account and you're in a 25% tax bracket, it changes your equation by $250, 1250 so you would net of taxes come home with

not a thousand but with 750 if you're if you're in a 25 tax bracket so no there's no taxes no tax rate that is more than 100 not yet anyway there may be someday but not yet i'm not sure how they're going to figure out how to tax you more than 100%, but who knows? Some of these left-wingers might figure it out. But no, you just temporarily stop it. It's just a matter of focus. Focus exceeds the power of tax deferral. Focus exceeds the power of compound interest on the short term.

And so on the short term, we're going to get out of debt because that's your most powerful wealth building tool. Hey, thanks for calling in. Thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, and this is the show. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to The Dave Ramsey Show on Pandora and Spotify? For all the ways to watch and listen, check out our show page at daveramsey.com slash show.