The Ramsey Show - App - Dave Talks the Difference Between Helping and Enabling (Hour 3)

Episode Date: March 9, 2022

Dave Ramsey & George Kamel discuss: Toxic generosity, What to prioritize when paying off debt, Where to park money after a home sale Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us america we're so glad you're here open phones at 888-825-5225 that's 888-825-5225 we're going to take your calls about your relationships your work your career your money and your life. It's all right here on The Ramsey Show, and we thank you for joining us. There's about 22 million of you out there.

Thank you for that. We are the fifth largest podcast in the world right now, which is kind of mind-blowing. We're the second largest talk radio show in North America by any measure, and absolutely because of you guys guys and we appreciate you we appreciate you being there our youtube channel is uh unbelievably successful we've got these gold buttons and silver buttons around here that mean we've had a bazillion listeners and viewers there and downloads and everything else all these youtube awards and it's all because of the numbers of you that are out there.

And we're so honored by that, and we appreciate that. If you want to do us a favor, tell other people. That's the biggest favor you could do is spread the word. Say, hey, listen to this podcast. Listen to this talk radio show. Watch this on YouTube. And George and I would would appreciate that and the folks at ramsey would appreciate that spread the word that's how life change happens i found it takes

a friend going hey you got to check this out yeah check this guy out and uh you know we'll do the talking for you you don't have to talk them into it we'll talk them into it we'll wear them down baby we've been doing it for 30 years that's right all right. Evan is with us to start off this hour in Iowa. Hi, Evan. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave and George. It's an honor to speak with you both. Thanks for taking my call, and thanks so much for all you do to help people. Well, thank you. What's up? So I, about two years ago, started to get after my debt. I started with $85,000 in student loan debt, and right now, today, I'm at $53,000. And so after kind of getting on board, well, definitely getting on board with your principles about six months ago, I realized that the mutual fund I have of $20,000 I need to cash out. I cashed out $5,000 of that at the end of this past year,

leaving me $15,000 left in that mutual fund. And I was kind of waiting to see, to get closer to the end of the student loan pause to take the remainder of that out. But it's starting to dwindle these past couple weeks with everything that's going on in the world. And so I guess I'm just, my question is, should I pull it out right now? It's at $13,000, or should I try to see if it's going to go back up and recoup some of that loss? Does that make sense? Well, if I'm in your shoes, there's some things I can control. And one of those things is not the economy and the stock market, but I can control paying down the student loan debt as much as i can right now and so

i'm cashing it out because i just don't know the future okay here's the swing evan okay the the likelihood that that student loan goes up 10 in just a few months is very low. 10% in a year? Maybe. That wouldn't be unusual. But 10% in a couple of months would be highly unusual. 10% of $13,000 is $1,300. We don't have a $1,300 discussion.

We have a $53,000 problem. $1,300 one way or the other does not make or break this discussion. Okay. So what happens is... I had the feeling that's what you're going to say. Yeah, I do this all the time, and that's why I recognize it when other people do it. Here's what we do. We start running math numbers, and we start looking at percentages, and we forget to look and say, okay, there's a $53,000 problem, and I'm over here trying to manipulate $4 somewhere or $1,300,

an insignificant amount of money compared to the size of the problem, in order to somehow get an edge on this problem, where if I had taken that same level of energy and said, okay, I'm going to cut my budget, I'm going to work six jobs, I'm going to not go out to eat. I'm not going on vacation. I'm going to completely focus on this problem, and I'm going to punch this $53,000 in the face so many times that it just falls over dead. Then, you know, that's the deal.

And so the secret sauce here, Evan, is your commitment and your energy and your visceral response to this debt. That is 95% of your solution. 5% of your solution is math manipulation. And so that's what I forget that because I'm a math nerd and I'm always going to fix it with math. And most of the time it's not math. It's Dave. He's the problem.

On paper, it looks great. But then life happens it's dave he's the problem on paper it looks great but then life happens so here's what i'm seeing on paper if it helps you out you've already paid off thirty two thousand dollars in debt yeah if you cash out the mutual fund you're now down to 38 no no he's done he went from 85 to 53 so that's that's about a 32 so he's got oh yeah he goes down to 38 i'm sorry so then you go down to 38 now i can see the light at the end of the tunnel because he goes i've done this before. $3,000 a month, you're done in a year. Boom.

Boom. And you start to go, yeah, yeah, yeah. The momentum is more important than the math. And then you start finding that money. I go get that different thing. I change this around, and that's how it works. So that's the weird thing about personal finance, is it's usually not a math problem. It's usually a focus and intentionality problem, a sacrifice problem, a

commitment problem. It usually falls in those categories, and that's what changes everything. So that's just a great call, Evan. It's a really, really good question because it exposes the things that most of us do where we place our energies

or our, know we that we we think something's a solution that's not and so it's like okay you know i'm going to refinance my credit cards from 18 down to 14 okay how much do you have in credit card debt a thousand dollars you just save four dollars sometimes you just changed your life you know it's just you didn't say why why did you can't even pay for the stamp to fix this? I mean, you probably wouldn't use a stamp. But, oh, my gosh, you know what I mean? It's just, that's, wow.

But this is a good, it's a good point because with the stock market investing, when you're up 5%, 10%, you go, well, I've got to keep waiting. And you start to get a little bit greedy. Like you're in Vegas and you're like, well, I'm up. I'm doing well. Let's keep riding this thing out and see how it goes. But that's not the problem. The problem you you're not making the extra percent the problem is you're 53 000 in debt and the payments are eating your life exactly so you're you got it evan you got this and i'll you you and i could tell by talking to you that you got it

and so i i predict good things for you call us back with a debt-free screen. It's coming. It's coming your way. That's very cool. Personal finance is 80% behavior. It's only 20% head knowledge. That means that here's how you become wealthy. It's 80% behavior. It's only 20% head knowledge. The mathematics of becoming a millionaire, sixth grade level.

Sixth grade level. It's called compound interest. It's not a calculus formula. It's not a trigonometry formula. The Pythagorean theorem is not involved. What a waste of learning that was. The twerp in my mirror, however,

is the biggest issue. If I can get that boy to behave, he can be skinny and rich. You'll get there. We'll get there. You're one for two. Too soon. You look great. You're fired, George.

Okay. This is the Ramsey Show. Folks, listen up. I know some of y'all are putting off getting life insurance because rates went up, restrictions were added due to COVID. But it doesn't change your responsibility to take care of your family. Lucky for you, insurance companies are lowering their rates again, and there are more options than ever to let you skip the medical exam. Yes, it's actually easier than it was before all this mess, so now is the time to get it done. If you don't have term life insurance or not enough, you need to take the step take care of this and let the team at zander insurance help i've used and recommended zander for over 20 years because they

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But to win in any market, you really have to know what you're doing. This is not amateur hour. So you need to work with someone who knows what they're doing. You need an experienced, high-octane, high-protein real estate agent at your fingertips, and we've got that for you. We've done the vetting. We've done the vetting we've done the due diligence and we've lined you up with endorsed local providers as ramsey trusted pros

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Today's question comes from Kim in Arizona. She says, my husband wants us to help his daughter purchase her grandmother's home for $60,000. His motivation for doing this is he wants her to move close to where we live. She was just let go from a job for tardiness and has $14,000 in debt. She just got back from an expensive vacation and doesn't even have enough for the down payment on this house.

How can I convince him this is a very bad idea? Wow, the art of persuasion. That's a difficult one. I don't know that you can convince him of anything. It sounds like he's made up his mind that his daughter needs to have this house regardless of her financial situation, which is a bad place to be. So Kim knows this is a bad idea, but she's asking, how do I get him on board with the fact that this is not the time for her to purchase this house? There is a few times in my life I have been an enabler, but a whole bunch of times in my life doing financial coaching, I have run into people who are enablers, whether they're enabling someone that's an addict or they're enabling other bad behaviors. Enablers, which your husband is kim is are the nicest people they want to help they're very

sweet people if you're an enabler i know this about you you're a kind gentle compassionate you're not a grouchy person you're a sweet person because enablers always are they and they always feel like they want to help. And he wants his daughter close to him. That's sweet. And he wants to help his little daughter. And he's helped her a lot over the years to the point that she's basically useless. He's helped her so much that she has no character. She can't seem to show up at work on time.

She's a grown-up who can't even scrape together the money for this. I mean, you know, he's created a mess. And the thing, Kim, the only thing I've ever been able to do with enablers because they are convinced that they're helping, and they are helping people do the wrong things, and they're the sweetest people, is I just tell them, I just say, you know, you're so sweet. You need to realize, though, that when you think you're helping, you're actually hurting.

So, honey, I don't think you should bring harm to your daughter. I think you should love her enough to not bring harm to her. And to participate in her craziness, to participate in her irresponsibility and encourage it by financing it is bringing harm to her she needs to learn to keep a job by showing up on time get her freaking work done and the fact that she can't do that is because you've done this with her her whole life because you've helped her so much that she has no character she has no bones inside of her character and so honey you're not helping you're hurting you're bringing harm to her because you're not doing anything except going she's not going to

get better because you did this um now the goal is for her to live closer to them and the grandmother's house and the grandmother's home is in the deal too so there's also some sentimental value here emotion and sentimental value. So here's what we could do that I think would be good for his daughter, is to say, okay, here's what we're going to do. If you do these three things, I'm going to help you. But I'm not going to do them for you unless you do these three things. One is you get four jobs and you start working 60 hours to 80 hours a week you will not die from hard work just before you die

from hard work you pass out so you will not die from hard work you're going to be okay it's science it's it's science yeah and it's brain science and so uh you're going to be okay i want you and number one number two you're going to go through financial peace university and you're going to graduate in a week you're going to binge watch Number two, you're going to go through Financial Peace University, and you're going to graduate in a week. You're going to binge watch the videos, and you're going to go through them, and we're going to discuss them together. And number three, with all the money that you're making, you're going to save all of it. You're going to spend none of it on stupid butt stuff

because you need to come up with a down payment really, really quick. And if you do that for 60 days, I'll help you get this house. But if you don't do that, I'm days i'll help you get this house but if you don't do that i'm not going to help you get this house and so what you're doing there is you're encouraging her and you know i'll even add one more i'll pay off half of your debt your fourteen thousand dollar debt after you pay off the first half get some skin i'll match i'll match you you put a thousand on it i'll put a thousand on it you put,000 on it, I'll put $1,000 on it. You put $2,000 on it, I'll put $2,000 on it until it's gone. That gets rid of the $14,000 worth of debt.

And then we'll help you get Grandma's house. But she's not going to be able to keep Grandma's house. She's going to lose Grandma's house. She's going to get foreclosed on if you go into it this way. So the only way I've ever been able to get an enabler to stop enabling is to convince them that they're actually bringing harm because an enabler can't stand the idea that they would be hurting someone because they're sweet people and if i can finally convince them that they're causing harm rather than helping that their version of help is actually harmful then um that's that's the deal sometimes kicking

someone's butt's the best thing you can do for them. Absolutely. Absolutely. Especially if it's your daughter. You know, it's moms and dads with grown kids in their basement. I mean, listen, an eagle that doesn't leave the nest eventually is known as a turkey. And so, you know, you've got to help them leave for their sake. You're not helping them. You're hurting them. You're bringing, you've got a 36-year-old in your basement. You've brought them harm.

They're emotionally stunted in their growth their ability to function in the culture is is stunted because you've you've brought them harm and you thought you were helping providing that you're still continuing to do their laundry you know and it's just and that's not well that's tough love you're just tough it's not tough love honey that's love it's love. It's love to allow people to live out their best life, create a sustainable situation with dignity. That's empowering. That's love. That's real love.

Yeah. And, you know, toxic love is I'm going to keep you around so I feel better. And let me continue your misbehavior. That's enabler language. What about this plan? and let me continue your misbehavior. That's enabler language from now on. What about this plan? What if she could rent grandma's home since she's broke, and eventually it can be hers?

Well, it depends on who she's renting it from. I don't know the ownership level. We don't have that information here. If dad has to buy it and rent it to her, she's not going to pay the payment, and then he's not going to throw her out. Because now we're just... Evicting your daughter, that's awkward. Well, it is awkward, but you're also setting her up to lose because she

knows she's not going to pay the payment she knows he's a pushover an enabler same thing and yeah so she she knows this and so she knows exactly where they stand so no you can't you can't put her in there with him as the backstop because him backstopping her has been the issue but but you know the truth is kim your husband is a kind nice man he really is a good person he's sweet he really is a sweet person and i'm not making fun i'm not being sarcastic i really do think he is he has He has just defined the word help wrong. His definition of help is not accurate. You're not helping. You're harming when you give a drunk a drink.

You didn't help the drunk. You feel better because you feel like you did something, and you thought you were nice, and you didn't create conflict. But you didn't help. You brought harm. When a drunk continues to be a drunk because you helped, that's the definition of harm. Toxic generosity. It is.

It's a definition of harm. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Seth and Kristen are with us. Welcome, guys. Hi. Good to have you guys. Where do you guys live? El. Welcome, guys. Hi. Good to have you guys. Where do you guys live? Elkton, Tennessee, about 45 minutes south of here on the Tennessee-Alabama border.

Down towards Huntsville. Yeah. Very cool. Well, welcome to Nashville. Not a bad drive up at all. No. Actually, it probably took you less than if you'd driven from Nashville. Yeah.

I work here, so. Oh, okay. Even easier. All right. Welcome. How much debt have you guys paid off about a hundred thousand very good how long did this take you um longer than it should have and that was my fault um it took about four and a half years um when we first got married we got really intense we got rid of the credit cards we didn't have any debt or anything

um we both took side hustles working at a pumpkin farm for somebody that we knew and paid off his car. Good. And then we worked for the next year and paid off my student loans. And then after that, we were kind of ish for about two years. He kept saying, oh, we need to do a's like we need to do a budget we need to do a budget i'm like yeah we live on less than we make we save some each month why do we need a budget and um so then eventually she saw yeah eventually well then covid hit and um i was um i'm a pediatric speech pathologist and our clinic was shut down for two months.

And I was pregnant. And so then by the time we opened back up, I was on maternity leave. So I was out of work for several months. And so after kind of everything started opening up again, you had an event here called What Now? Yeah. And we came to that. Yeah. You were in the studio audience it was

we were it was only a couple hundred people down there yeah yes yeah and so we went home that night paid for the every dollar budget and we got on board and as soon as i went back to work it was like game on okay you finished it up then all right we got you back on track i like it yes now the pandemic was the wake-up call it was it was wow i'm proud of y'all well done it's sometimes it's harder to return to something than it is just go all the way through it it was a little bit hard at first but i mean using the every dollar app literally made a difference i mean we tried the cash envelopes but we do grocery pickup and stuff that don't take cash. And so it was harder to stay on budget for us that way. With the EveryDollar app,

oh my goodness. You're now like an evangelist. But right before that, you were saying, I was like, we don't need to do a budget. We live on less than we make. What was the turning point? And now her favorite thing is the budget. I know. I'm confused. What was the turning point for you? It was, well, it was was we looked at how much we made each month and it was like why are we not able to save more why are we not saving more and putting more towards the debt than what we do and so um finally it was like okay we did the budget we made it so that we live completely off his paycheck because i went down to part-time after we had our son we're gonna send her to congress she can straighten them out get them on an every dollar budget she can straighten them out i could

i common dadgum sense i like it well done very good good for you guys so cool so cool how's it feel to be free really good yes so the last thing to go sally may you gave her her eviction papers we did yes we got rid of both of our student loans, and we got rid of that car debt was the first thing. And we got a new car just recently. Paid cash for it. All right. I like it. Yeah, I think your name is a cuss word in car dealerships.

I think it is. Did you bring it up? I got to know. Yes, we did. I got really, really dirty looks. Oh, boy. Well, they were, you know, they were. They got confused that you were the customer with the money?

I don't understand. Yeah. They were not wanting to come down on the price that we were willing to pay. And we were like, they're like, well, just finance the rest. And we were like, we don't do that. We follow Dave Ramsey. That was their sign that we are not making money off of these people. That's why they were angry.

Yeah. Yeah. I love it. That's fun. That's cool. What'd you buy? What kind of car uh mazda 3 yeah sweet sweet good for you i'm proud of you guys well done all right now that

you did it you you uh started you let your foot off the gas then you got back on and knocked it out what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is uh don't give up i mean murphy is gonna hit it's gonna happen it happened to us last year i mean it was like we had saved up enough money to pay off his student loans had half of our emergency fund and then we had a big plumbing repair his other car went out and we ended up having to buy another car and it was just like boom boom boom but we paid cash for all those things and we just kept going it was like okay this set us back a couple months but we can still do it amen now you have a lot less emergencies now that you're not broke it's yeah it's funny i mean once we had the emergency fund in place it was like murphy stopped bothering us you went

next door it's an odd thing that works that way. I like it. Very well done. Okay. So you brought the baby with you to celebrate? We did. Yes. And we're actually expecting another one.

All right. And so this is, what is his name and how old is he? Colin Sanders. This is Colin. He's 22 months. All right. And then this is Ray. She is due in august all right i love it you guys are amazing i'm so proud of you very well done we got a copy of the baby steps

millionaires book for you that's the next chapter in your story for sure you're heading that way how ordinary people built extraordinary wealth how you can too also a copy total money makeover you can give that to somebody they start hearing about your story they're going to want to do this and you can show them how to do it that way and get it get it moving way to go you guys who was your biggest cheerleader outside the two of you um i would say our families our families were very supportive um i mean i grew up in a family they didn't exactly follow the dave plan but they knew i mean they were good with finances and everything, but they still use credit cards.

I'm working on them. You'll get there. Way to go, you two. Proud of you. Very well done. All right, it's Seth and Kristen and Colin. Huntsville, Alabama area, southern Tennessee, to be exact. $100,000 paid off in four and a half years.

What a great story. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Woo! Woo-hoo-hoo!

Way to go, you guys. Way to go. That's amazing. Love that. Beautiful. Anyone can transform. Even the budget haters. They can learn to love the budget. More than that, I'd be an evangelist for it.

Amazing. I mean, love it. You're right. That's fabulous. The best pitch for the budget is keep more of your money. There it is. Once she figured that out, she said, we're working too hard. Where's our money going?

We can keep more of this if we do the budget. If we make the money behave that we have. That's exactly right. Very well done. Good stuff. Roth is with us in, where is this, Alaska? Yeah, Homer, Alaska. All right, good stuff.

Let's see here. Where's the button? There it is. Hey, Roth, what's up? Hey, Dave, it's William Roth. I'm a commercial fisherman. I grew up fishing and been running my own boat since I was 18. I'm 25 right

now and I had done a bad thing and upgraded boats so I went from a 40 foot boat to a 56 foot boat and I had to borrow another $100,000 on it. So my business debt is at $200,000 and my

house debt, so my boat mortgage is at 200 and my house debt. So my boat mortgage is at 200,000 and my house mortgage is at 120. And I'm wondering which do I pay off first? Boat. Pay off the boat first? Yep. Yep. What are you making?

What's your net profit a year? It varies because it's fishing. I know. Um, some years they're 200 and other years they're like 50. Really? Yeah, it can really vary a lot. We've had more steady years as things have kind of leveled off also. So what do you think you're going to make in the coming year? What would you guess you're going to make next year?

I plan on making 100 in the following year here. And with the bigger boat, I also expect an increase year to year, more steady as well. Okay. You need to live on nothing, man, to get this boat paid off. This thing's got you vulnerable. You're in a really risky situation. Really risky. So the boat is what I would tackle first and what's your uh what's your

reasoning behind that because it is a huge destabilizer for your business this was a stupid move and if you get if you get in a sideways and a cash flow problem here is that this two hundred thousand dollar boat debt is going to take you out. And so I want to get rid of that. The house won't take you out. This will take you out. And it's the risk that's scaring me. And there's a lot more risk than you perceive. Thank you. Our scripture of the day, 1 Corinthians 2.9, No eye has seen nor ear has heard, and no human mind has conceived the things God has prepared for those who love him and frank said what a wonderful thought it is that some of the best days of our lives haven't even happened yet i like that very cool that's true if all your good days are in the past you're uncle rico just reliving the memories there you go do a little napoleon

dynamite prop there. Just in case. Just in case somebody wondered. All right. Hunter is in Austin, Texas. Hey, Hunter, how are you? Doing good, Dave. God bless you and what you guys do there.

Thank you, sir. How can we help? Need some wisdom from you on short-term investment. A little back story quickly. My wife and I sold our home after 10 years here in the Austin area. And as you know, it's a great market. And so we took an offer we couldn't pass up. So the question is, we immediately put our windfall into a CD that comes up to term June 1st. And we're just biding our time for a little bit until we find a plot of land where we want to build the next house.

We have no outstanding debt, and we own all of our vehicles. So where should we park that sucker for the next 24 months or so? Well, you're going to make nothing but lose nothing if you keep it parked in high-yield CDs or something, but they don't even pay 1%, so it's a bit of a joke. joke it's like free parking yeah six tenths of a percent yeah it's just free parking we're just going to park it here and uh we're not making anything but we're not losing anything and if you want to take a little bit more risk than that obviously you can move some of it towards the market um but with the world uh in in upheaval it's a weird time to be playing market short term i don't mind playing it long term i'm not pulling anything out because of the world in upheaval but parking stuff

for 18 or 24 months you might lose some money you know and so you know you got to be willing to take that risk in order to make a little bit of money so it's just a matter of do you want to trade some risk for some money uh potentially uh or do you want to just be you know real calm and just park it there's not a wrong answer um how much money's involved 175 000 okay all right and so if you lost 10 you'd lose 17 000 yeah that would not keep you from building the house no if you made ten percent you'd make seventeen thousand dollars and that's probably your that's probably your over and under right would it be out and to your point what what would you reckon you're talking about index funds yeah i mean i just drop it into an index fund, an S&P 500 index fund. I do that because I, but the difference is it doesn't mean I can't build the house, you know, because of it or something. And so I can, it's not going to matter.

In my case, I'll give you an example. What I would be parking personally money in there for for a short term like that would be i'm parking it there until i find a piece of real estate i want to buy okay and so if i'm buying a an expensive piece of real estate a five or a ten percent swing one way or the other i'm not going to know within that what i'm going to pay for the real estate because i'm it's not a certain piece of real estate it's not a certain target so it doesn't matter if i make a little or lose a little i and i just do it just because i'd rather not make six tenths of a percent but it but it's also if it's going to steal your joy if you lose ten thousand dollars um you know then then just put it in a money market put it in a cd it's not that big a deal you're not going to get rich

because of this move and you're not going to go broke because of this move and you're not going to go broke because of this move that's my point you know so i i you know just get kind of gauge out you know how you and your wife feel uh i can tell you sharon uh would probably park in a cd my wife probably would just because she doesn't want to think about it and me i don't think about it when i put it in the index fund so it's okay either way you got to take into account how much anxieties is going to cause staring watching it go up and down up and down each day versus going you know what if it's if it's going to cause you to to watch the stock market and you usually don't then don't do it

yeah then don't do it but i've got you know i've done this before when we were saving up for our house and i remember you're kind of going oh gosh, gosh, I hope when I pull it out, it went up, and you have that feeling of, oh, gosh, am I going to lose money on this? And so if you really need it by a certain time and it's a short timeline, I like just parking it in a high-yield savings account and calling it a day. Yeah, that works 100% of the time. And no anxiety, which we could all use less of that. And 100% of the time you're making no money. So it's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. could all use less of that. And 100% of the time, you're making no money.

So it's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. That's the purpose of it. So good stuff. Sarah is in Chicago. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi.

Thank you. So I started your program two years ago, and I have managed to pay off about $43,000 so far. I took on a side job this year to get that going. And unfortunately, I would say I did not do the correct deductions. And now I have a $4,000 tax bill due. Oh! Yes. So my question is is twofold one how do i make sure this doesn't happen again

when the position i'm working is commission-based and two um do i use my thousand dollar emergency fund to go towards this and is there like an extension how do you pay what are you making what kind of money do you make on the side job period or just in portal both uh 86 000 that's like that's combined that was combined yeah okay all right um okay let's pretend that your hair is on fire because that's what i the IRS money is. And so we're going to go completely bananas between now and April 15th, and we're going to fine $4,000. Okay. You haven't filed your taxes yet, right?

No, I just started them last night, and then that's how I found out, wow, what happened here. Yeah, okay. I also may work with a tax pro because they can really help you bring down that tax bill. And so they'll make you the money back that they cost you. That's probably true, yeah. And to avoid in the future, quarterly estimated payments is what you want to be making if you've got those side hustles. Because I've been there, and that's something I learned along the way was, oh, that helps to pay them something. And you want to get as close as you can. So you got to be socking away 25, 30 percent of that freelance side hustle income so

that you don't have to deal with this again. Yeah. So when you make a thousand bucks on your side hustle, you set $250 aside for taxes. You withhold on yourself. That's what George is saying. And then you're supposed to file a one-page piece of paper once a quarter called a quarterly estimate, and it's your estimated taxes, and you're supposed to file a one-page piece of paper once a quarter called a quarterly estimate and it's your estimated taxes and you're supposed to go ahead and make the deposit for those estimated taxes and then that way you what what amounts to is you would have put a thousand dollars a quarter aside last year and so you would have been at break even right if you had done that last year so that's how you keep from that happening this year as far as this you cannot file an extension on taxes you owe you can file an extension on the

filing of the tax return but the taxes are still due on april 15th and if you don't pay them you're going to be penalized and uh and have interest at it as well and so i'm going to pay every dollar you can pay even if you pay 3600 and you only get penalized on $400. Okay? So you pay as much as you can scrape together. You scrape everything together just as hard as you can go. And you go on beans and rice. And you, I mean, you go bananas between now and April 15th.

And get a tax pro to help you calculate this. It'll be worth it. Silver lining, it's April 18th. So extra three days this year, Dave, she gets to save up. That's helpful. Not much. I sent sarcasm. Thank you, George. Yeah, check RamseySolutions.com and click an ELP for taxes,

and they'll sit down with you, help you do this. And even if your taxes are fairly simple, in your case, we want to make to make really really sure and they can help you set those quarterly estimates up too uh so that you can learn how to do that it's not complicated it's not that hard to do but uh but but having somebody show you how to do it the first time is not a bad idea it's worth a little bit of expense for professional fees to do that and they may know some deductions that you can take from your side hustle, which will reduce your taxable income on the side hustle, because basically your side hustle is self-employed income, probably going to be filed on a Schedule C on your tax return. And they may know some things you can put in there that George and I wouldn't know because

we're not very good at taxes. So there we go. Good stuff. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Thanks to George Camel, to Kelly, to Ben, to Jenna, to Zach, to everybody in the booth. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz, co-host on The Ramsey Show. If you want to do your debt-free scream live on the show, visit RamseySolutions.com slash debt-free scream. We'd love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story. That's ramsonsolutions.com slash debtfreescreen.