The Ramsey Show - App - Dave's Input on the Marriott Information Breach (Hour 1)

Episode Date: November 30, 2018

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show. Where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Open phones this hour as we talk about your life, your money. It is a free call at 888-825-5225. Well, it's happened again. This is the world that we now live in. Marriott International announcing this morning that the personal information of over 500 million customers, 500 million, there's only 300 million people in the U.S., obviously

these are international customers as well, were exposed in a breach of its hotel and timeshare guest reservation database. The world's largest hotel chain said it learned of the breach on September the 8th and could affect guests with stays going back to 2014. For 327 million of the impacted guests, the compromised data includes name, mailing address, email address, phone number, passport number, rewards account information, date of birth, arrival, departure information, reservation date, communication preference.

For some customers who book directly with the chain, the information also includes payment card numbers and payment card expiration dates. Despite the payment card numbers being encrypted, Marriott officials could not rule out the possibility that the hackers were able to decrypt these details. Well, they did hack you for 500 million people. I suspect they might be able to decrypt a credit card number. I'm just thinking. I don't know. I mean, it's possible. Wow.

So, if you're a Zander identity theft customer and this is you, it's me. I stay there. I stay at Marriott Properties all the time when we travel. Um, definitely got my debit card number without a doubt. Of course, I have to change a stupid thing about every 60 days. Now, anyway, it's ridiculous. But anyway, if you're a Zander ID theft customer, you're okay. Because, um, if someone uses the information incorrectly, uh, uses it to open an account in your name that is not you, identity theft, ID fraud. Then Zander Identity Theft, if you're a member, if you're a customer, assign someone, a caseworker to it to go in and clean it all up for you.

It doesn't cost you anything, not even any time that's there. And they've got a million-dollar in stolen funds reimbursement on that. So if you're not a Xander Identity Theft customer, you probably should be starting today, you know, really. I don't know why you haven't done this already. We are, all of our family is, everyone that works here is. I give it to them as an employee benefit, everybody on the team. Now, if you haven't already, then activate your personal information monitoring on your Zander ID theft solutions page. If you've got another monitoring service, monitor it for goodness sakes.

Do not reply to unsolicited emails asking you to verify personal information. See, once they get your email, then they're going to fish you is what that's called. And, you know, if you bite on the worm, you're going to be there. So you get a phone call or an email asking you for information. No one does that in the banking world. So that's going to be, you know, someone that has gotten this information and is messing with you. You can place a fraud alert on your credit file,

and probably a good idea to do so. and is messing with you. You can place a fraud alert on your credit file, and probably a good idea to do so. And you can sign up for e-mail or text alerts from your bank to notify you of any transactions that are weird or off-base or even any transactions for that matter. You can set it all up to do it. These days it's not a question of if your information is going to get stolen. It's just a matter of when. The only possibility that you don't have your information stolen now is you're completely off the grid.

I mean, you have no cards. You never use your social anywhere on any application that goes into any database at any time. You never post your phone number or your address on anything anywhere, which means you pretty much live in a cave. You're off the grid beyond belief, right? And so today it is the identity theft world is just a part of our world. These things just get hacked and they get stolen so regularly that you have to have something like the Zander Insurance,

you know, identity theft insurance in place, and I've had it for many, many years. And it just gives you a lot of comfort because the big deal is, see, if someone steals your number, by the way, you don't owe money. Let's say they got your name and your email address and your phone number and your passport number or whatever else, and they went and applied for a credit card. The credit card company didn't check to see if there was a fraud alert on your credit bureau. They didn't even check your credit. They just issued the card, which they do about 7 out of 10 times. They issue it blindly.

They only check about 3 out of ten applications. And so Wachovia or Wells Fargo or Chase issues a card in your name with your social security number and your email and all the stuff that they stole from all these places. And an account is opened up and $10,000 is charged on it. You do not owe the $10,000. You did not lose a dime. The bank lost the money because they were stupid and didn't check your credit and didn't figure out that it was a fraud and so just you know what you but what you do lose is hundreds and hundreds of hours

fighting with idiots at chase in their fraud victim division. And you're filling out police reports and you're filling out affidavits and you're trying to explain to them that you did not open this card and you are not going to pay this card. And it is an identity theft scenario. And you've just got to walk through all of that over and over and over again. The beauty of having Xander is they assign someone that goes and does all that fighting for you and that way you know you've got some inconvenience but you don't you're not out any money and you're not out hundreds of hours fighting through this so even if someone you know your relative your roommate steals your identity and opens an account fraudulently without your signature in your name.

Even then, just because you know them doesn't make you liable. Now, you do have to be willing to fill out a police report on them that says, I know who the thief is. And some people don't want to put their mother in jail who stole their, or have the chance of putting their mother in jail who stole their identity. But any mother who opens an account in their kid's name is what's known as scum. You're scum if you steal your own kid's identity. That's about as scummy and low as it gets. So if I had my way, they'd come pick you up and lead you away in bracelets that connect.

But they don't usually. They usually just slap you around a little bit metaphorically. And, oh, man, it's just a nasty, nasty business. But about 60% to 80% of identity theft is not stuff like this Marriott breach. It's people you know. It's someone you know, some family member's uh got a loose screw and no morals and uh let me just help you with this if you sign someone's name to an application other than your own name unless you have a power of attorney what you have done is just called criminal fraud

that's what it is so you cannot just open an account in your wife's name you can't just open an account in your mother's name or your kid's name. Unless you have a power of attorney, you can't do that. That's fraud. Criminal fraud. Scum wireless plan is blowing your budget each month. Pure Talk USA offers smarter wireless with unlimited plans starting as low as $20 per month. You never pay data overage fees and we never turn off your data. No contracts, no hidden fees. And if you're thinking our low cost means less coverage, think again. Our voice and data service covers 99% of Americans and our 4G LTE network provides the fastest Internet speeds like more expensive carriers. We operate on the largest GSM network in the U.S.

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Better than I deserve. What's up? Cool. So you said a quick advice deserve. What's up? Cool. So just had a quick advice I wanted to get from your end. I'm currently on baby step six and myself and my spouse, we got our house about two years back and I've been looking

at different resources and I've been getting contradicting, I guess, statements, if you want to call it, between paying off your home mortgage or investing that savings that you have into a mutual fund, right? Mm-hmm. So right now our situation is that a family, we save about $60,000 a year, and our current mortgage is about $260,000 spending. So I just wanted to see if there's a strategy that can be deployed to, A, also benefit from

the tax benefits you get for keeping a mortgage, and also at the same time growing your wealth, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, there's two different issues here. One is the investment returns, and the other is the tax benefits. We'll address the tax benefits first. Only 30% of Americans itemize, and if you don't itemize, you don't get tax benefits

from your mortgage. You know that, right? Correct. If you take a standard deduction, you don't get an interest deduction also. Correct. Okay. And this year, with the standard deduction doubling, the number of people that itemize will probably be well less than 10%.

And we do fall under that category. You will itemize? We won't. We would get a standard deduction. Okay. So this is a theory that we're talking about then. It's not a real problem. Because you're not losing a tax deduction by paying off your mortgage if you're not taking the mortgage tax deduction.

Do you get it? Correct. Okay. And so it's a bunch of BS is what it amounts to because it applies to almost no one. However, for those that it does apply to, let's walk through the math. Okay. to because it applies to almost no one. However, for those that it does apply to, let's walk through the math. Okay? Let's say you made $80,000 a year household income, which would put you in a 22% tax bracket. And let's say you had a $200,000 mortgage at 5% interest.

5% of $200,000 is $10,000 a year in interest. Does that sound right? Yep. Okay. And if you were one of the unicorns that actually does itemize, then we would take that $10,000 as a tax deduction. If you're in a 22% tax bracket, that would save you 22% of $10,000 or $2,200 on your taxes. Does that sound right? Correct. Okay. Now, what people are saying when they say keep a mortgage in order to get the tax deduction for those rare few that

actually take the tax deduction but keep a mortgage in order to get the tax deduction they are saying send countrywide mortgage ten thousand dollars to keep from sending the government 2200 on what planet is that smart? You follow my math? Yep, I do. Okay. So I think we've destroyed the tax deduction. Number one, no one takes it because no one itemizes anymore. Number two, if they do, they're trading a dollar for a quarter.

Not a good trade where I come from. If you want to do that, send me $10,000 and I'll send you $2,200. If you want to make that trade. I'll send you $2,200 if you want to make that trade. I'll send you $2,500. I'll give you a bonus. You know what I'm saying? I think I could come out on that deal. So the second part of the equation is, why do I want to pay off my house with money I could have invested into a mutual fund?

Because a mutual fund is going to pay me 10% to 12%. My home mortgage is 4% or 5%. Does that sound like the equation you're talking about? Yes. That equation is all over the Internet, written up by broke people everywhere. And the reason it's written up by broke people is that the equation is very unsophisticated and very incomplete. Because you left out risk. When you borrow money in order to invest it in a stock market investment, you are taking additional risk.

To not mathematically adjust for risk is very unsophisticated. And I can help you understand that emotionally right quick. You said you owe $260,000 on your house. What's your interest rate on your mortgage? 4%. Okay. Let's say interest rate on your mortgage? 4%. Okay. Let's say that the mortgage company came to you today and said, regardless of the value of the house, we will loan you $2,600,000, 10 times what you owe today at 4%.

And you have to go invest that in mutual funds then in the stock market. Would you do that? Why not, yeah. You really would. What if it was $26 million? The equation would change there, then. Okay. By raising the amount, all I'm doing is it's activating in your brain and in your heart

the fact that there's risk involved. At a small amount of $60,000 a year, you don't feel the risk, but it's really there. Because we've done detailed research. 100% of the foreclosures occur on a home with a mortgage. There is risk involved here. And so when you mathematically adjust for risk, plus you pay taxes on the returns that you make on mutual funds that you're investing in.

So when you tax adjust and risk adjust, you don't have much of a spread here. So last point is this. The 10,000 millionaires that we interviewed had three or four financial attributes in common that caused them to be millionaires. They never carried in the last 20 years consumer debt of any kind. Some of them had a credit card, but they pay it off every month. They hadn't had a car payment in 20 years. They don't carry consumer debt, attribute number one.

Attribute number two, they steadily invest in their 401K and in their Roth IRAs in tax-protected or tax-free investments in good mutual funds. And number three, they pay off their house on average in 10.2 years. There's a high correlation between becoming a millionaire and doing those three things. A very, very, very high correlation on those data points. That's not theory, and that's not someone writing a financial blog that lives in his mother's basement on the Internet. That's actual millionaires that actually did it. So all of that tells me no tax deduction, risk-adjusted returns aren't there,

and millionaires pay off their houses. I think I want to pay off my house. Thus, baby step six is still intact. We're still going to pay off the house as fast as you possibly can while putting 15% of your income away in baby step four. And that stuff is going to lead you to wealth faster and with less risk than anything else you can possibly do. And so that's the, you know, that's the reasoning and the actual facts that go on. What happens that you have to be real careful of, Sid, and it's a really good question.

I really appreciate you calling in with it and asking those because those are questions that people have all the time about paying off their mortgage. I'm going to lose the tax deduction and wouldn't I make more if I invested it? Happens all the time. But what happens in general in the financial world is those of us that are math nerds, I'm a math nerd. I love math. It's like weird. So I was that kid in the sixth grade, you know, the little pocket protector.

I was that kid right and um those of us that have a gift in math and are attracted to it tend to end up in the financial world and in the financial world consequently there is a lot financial products whether it's insurance investments finance professors whatever it is anything that's in this space almost everyone looks at all of these decisions based on math only. And if you look at math only on these things, you leave out the actual practical application of your theory, meaning you left out risk in the spread analysis, or you left out the fact that no one actually takes a tax deduction

because the standard deductions are so stinking high now. And see, the actual practical facts of the way this stuff really plays out is not theory. Out here in the real world where people live, not in a math vacuum, it doesn't work. All these theories don't work. Because when you apply real-world scenarios to them, behavior, relationships, actual tax brackets get involved, what people actually do or don't do gets involved, all these things. And so you cannot look at personal finance only through the lens of math because you miss stuff like we've been talking about for the last few minutes.

But that's why we're here. And we appreciate you calling in and letting me get up on my soapbox. Thank you, man. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know, statistically, when it comes to life insurance and protecting your family, that women are more likely to be uninsured or underinsured than men? This doesn't make any sense. Women make up half the workforce, contribute mightily to family incomes, and in many cases are the breadwinners and take care of their families 24 hours a day.

This is one of the most overlooked areas when it comes to financial planning. Maybe it's a relic of the past, but a loss of income or the need to replace family care is equally important for women as it is for men. Single moms, working moms, and stay-at-home moms all need term life insurance. Rates are actually lower for women, which is why I send you to Zander Insurance. They shop the top term life companies to find the lowest rates available.

You can compare rates online at zander.com or call 800-356-4282. This is something every family has to deal with. That's zander.com or 800-356-4282. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, John and Jody are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome, welcome.

Where do you guys live? Shadron, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live? Shadron, Nebraska. And what is that near? Nowhere. Top left-hand corner, Nebraska, about 5,600 people. Wow. Okay, cool. How close would that be to, like, Grand Island?

Six hours. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Oh, I know we got a station in Grand Island. That's what I was trying to remember. But, wow. Well, six hours to everything, huh? Pretty much.

Pretty much, yeah. Did you drive or fly? We flew. Flew. Okay, I guess, yeah. Well, welcome, guys. Good to have you. And all the way here to do your debt-free screen.

Yes, sir. And how much have you paid off? About $100,000. Very good. How long did this take? About 18 months. Very good. And your range of income during that time?

Started at about $50,000 and went up to about $100,000. Doubled in 18 months? Yep. Whoa, how'd you do that? I got another job. Oh, okay. Looked up and said, I need more money. Kind of.

Actually, we already had the job, and then we started listening to you, but we didn't have any plan for the income. Oh, okay. Immediately, we're like, well, we might as well start paying this stuff off and doing what Dave says. So that's kind of what got it started. It's like, now we'd really be dumb to not do this. Yeah.

We had actually already been given the job, and our friend, Elisa Moore, was like, hey, our church is going through this. You guys should go through it, too. So I bummed the DVDs and binge-watched them over a weekend. There you go. Told Jody, like, hey, we should probably do this. Yeah? She's okay with that.

I was so excited about it. It was exactly what needed to happen for us. Perfect. Okay. So it's what you've been trying to get him to do for years. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

And then some guy comes along on the DVDs and gets him to do it. That's right. Crazy guy. Crazy guy. Crazy guy. Without a doubt, he's crazy. Nutty in a fruitcake. Hey, guys.

Congratulations. So what kind of debt was the $100,000? It was mostly John's student loans. About $30,000. And then right before we got married, we bought a house. Some friends that said, hey, do you want to buy our house? And we said, sure. They were our college pastors.

Hey, you want to buy our house? We will do whatever you say. Oh, okay. So you paid off your house and everything. Yes, sir. Wow. Well, I'm looking at weird people. You have no debt at all.

None at all. Oh, I love that. Wow. Very cool. How long have y'all been married? Four years this next Thursday. Okay. Very cool. And 18 months of that's been game on.

Get everything paid off as fast as we can. Yep. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Lots of hard work and following the plan, just being steadfast with it. If you're nervous, you just trust it and keep going. So what's crazy is I'm a math teacher, and Jody is the one that really absolutely loves the budget. I hate the budget because it tells me what I have to do. My thing I tell people is you actually have to get off your butt and work.

You really do. I remember my first time part-time job, it was 40 hours a week. You have a lot more time you can work nowadays. You just have to be willing to do it. Wow. Well, that's what my grandmother used to say. There's a great place to go when you're broke to work. That'll do it. Way to go, you guys.

Very cool. Very cool. So you heard my little rant about math just a minute ago. So you're like me. You're one of those guys trying to fix it with the math, and that doesn't fix it, does it? Oh, yeah. I talk about you in class all the time. I really do. In class? Oh, math class. Oh, of course. Okay. In class. Oh, math class. Oh, of course.

Okay. All right. Cool. You got to take a break from algebra and talk about some finance stuff where you can use the algebra. There you go. That's exactly right. Love it.

Love it. Well, congratulations, you guys. Who was your biggest cheerleader other than each other? Probably my mom. Oh. So she's the nicest lady in the world, and every day she's like, hey, what are you guys going to pay off next? Hey, what are you guys going to do now?

She's always been there. And it was just fun to be able to share that with people like this. Because I'm sure our story is the same as so many other people's. And it was just exciting, and people were excited for us, and we're just wanting to share that with everybody. That's cool. That's cool. Yeah. When you're nervous do the plan anyway i love that line yeah when you even when you don't know just do it anyway yep because we know that's i like that that's good very well done you guys congratulations what was the hardest part of this for y'all in this 18

month because you've been running and gunning here yeah it's been um it's been a little hard just i'm i'm very much loving quality time and he's just been like not home because he's working just like a maniac like a maniac yeah but now that we're debt-free it's been so worth it yeah we get to work like no one else now you can work like no one exactly what was the best paying part-time job you had didn't really have a part-time job i had two It's been so worth it. Yeah. We get to. You work like no one else now. You can work like no one else. Yeah. What was the best paying part-time job you had? Didn't really have a part-time job. I had two full-time jobs. Oh, okay.

So we're both teachers. I teach second grade. Oh, cool. And I teach high school math. Right. And then for the last seven, eight years, I've had my own business as well. Oh, okay. Doing what?

I'm a locksmith. Oh, good. Oh, yeah. That's a great business. Yep. Very good. Good for you. It worked out really well because the teaching is more mentally taxing, and then you go home and start doing the locksmith work, and it's more physically taxing.

So I didn't really get burnt out, which was kind of nice. Yeah, exactly. It's a different skill set or different tank you're emptying out. Yeah. Very good. Well done. Well, we got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Retire Inspired. That's the next chapter in your story to be millionaires and outrageously generous along

the way. How old are you two? I'm 27. I'm 29. And you have a paid for house. Yep. What's the house worth? About 100, 110 now.

I love it. Way to go, you guys. Give us a few years. We'll be back on the Millionaire Theme Hour. It won't be long. It won't be long at this rate. I mean, you don't have a house payment. No.

I mean, it's amazing. You're going to have money. I mean, it's crazy. And we're just about ready to get our first rental, too. There you go. Paid for in cash. I love it. I love it.

I love it. Well, you're on your way, without a doubt. We're proud of you. Very good. But good job, guys. Very well done. John and Jody from Nebraska, $100,000 paid off in 18 months. That's the house and everything, baby.

Not even 30 years old. Making $50,000 to $100,000 a year. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo!

Boom! I love it, man! I love it! Man, I'll tell you what. I just love talking to these millennials that are doing this stuff. They are on fire. Man, that's their house paid for, and they're not even 30.

You understand? You make $100,000 a year. You live in Nebraska. There's no cost of living. Oh, man. You can do all kinds of stuff with this. It's unbelievable. Wow.

How fun. So when are you going to get on fire? Yeah, you. You make too much money to be broke. Where's all your money going? I'll be so dadgum clueless. I'm talking to you. You.

When are you going to change your family tree? When are you going to communicate with your spouse in a healthy, non-toxic way about the money stuff? Huh? Yeah, you. When are you going to do it? the money stuff. Huh? Yeah, you. When are you going to do it? It's time. I want that for you. I want you to win.

I believe in you. I think you can win. I talk to people just like you every day that have done this stuff. Big people, little people, young people, old people, white people, brown people. I talk to all of them. They all are doing this stuff. You can't tell me you can't do it. People look good. No, shut up about people like you.

People like you change their lives all the time. They just make a decision to do it. They get up off their butt, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home, man. You can do this. I know you can do it. They get up off their butt, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home, man. You can do this. I know you can do it. I actually believe you can do it more than some of you believe you can do it, because I've seen so many. I've seen so many that had the deck stacked against them. Everything was against them. There was no reason they should win. And they just decided. They just made a decision. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired.

I work too hard to be this broke. I make too much money to be this broke. Once you start saying stuff like that, you're ready to change. And I got to tell you, we become a fan of yours at that point. Because we are big fans of people who are transforming their lives. Don't do what everybody else is doing. You're going to get what everybody else is getting. Be not conformed to this world.

Be transformed. How? By the renewing of your mind. Put something else in your noodle, baby. Change your life. This is the Daveoria, Illinois. Hi, Dawn. How are you?

Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my husband and I are starting Baby Step number two. We have a couple credit cards, a $5,000 and a $15,000, but we also have the home I lived in before we got married, and it's upside down. And I'm wondering whether to put that in Baby Step 2, and if so, where,

because we're paying $300 a month that the rent doesn't even cover, so that's an additional $300 that comes out of our budget every month. What do you owe on it? $180,000. What would it sell for? About $150,000. What would it sell for? About $150,000. Okay. I bought it in 2007, right before the market crash.

And why has it not gone up in value? The area troubled? The area is not that bad, but I know the whole subdivision, there's a number usually in foreclosure and a couple being sold all the time. Well, that's kind of like a bad area then. I mean, economically. I mean, it may not be crime riddled. I don't mean that.

But, I mean, it's just like it's not a prospering neighborhood. It doesn't sound like it's going to recover anytime soon. What's your household income? About $45,000. Hmm. Okay. All right. Well, $30,000 in the whole, if you lose $300 a month, is $3,600 a year that you're losing right now.

Rents will go up over time. If you wrote a check for $30,000, it would save you about nine years of your loss. I'm kind of tempted to hold it for a while and try to get the rents up on it and try to get the value up and get it sold with a little bit less of a loss. Because with what you're losing per month, it would take you nine years to recover the $30,000. Does that make sense? Yeah. And that's a lot of money when you make $45,000 a year.

Yeah. So I'm afraid. Well, next year, my husband's deploying next year for the National Guard, so we should get more money next year, but it's not a huge difference. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you want to pay it down and cover it and get rid of it, you can, but basically your break-even is about nine years on doing that. $3,600 divided into $30,000.

You see how I'm doing that? Yeah. That's $300 a month for nine years. Just not include that in Baby Step 2 and just work on it. It would be in Baby Step 6, and I would just let it ride a little while. If it gets within striking distance and, you know, let's say the value comes up a little, the mortgage comes down a little, and you can reach over and pay $10,000 and get rid of it, I might do that.

Paying $30,000 and get rid of it doesn't sound like fun. Do you see why I'm saying that? Yes. But I'd set it at Baby Step 6, and let's just go ahead and attack the rest of the stuff as well. And tell your husband thanks for his service. We appreciate him. Barbara's in Minneapolis. Hey, Barbara, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hey, David, thank you. It's an honor to talk with you, and I just got to say, I hung out with you at Eagle Brook Church last month in Minneapolis, and thank you for buying Pastor Bob some cool new shoes. Well, we love Pastor Bob. He's a great friend. That's a great church. We were honored to be there.

How can we help today? Well, I'm 44. My husband is 48. We both work full-time. We're both in good health. However, my employer does offer, as a benefit, the opportunity to purchase long-term care insurance. And I've heard you talk about the minute you turn 60,

you should be securing that. My question for you is, you know, should we be looking at buying that at our ages now while we're younger and healthier? No. Okay. Because if you take what you're going to pay for it now and multiply it times 12 from 48 to 60,

you'll never save that much from 60 on. It's more expensive at 60 than it is at 48, right? Correct. But you're buying it for 12 years when you don't need it. And the chance of using it is less than one half of one percent before 60 years old right it's like almost not nil and so whatever you spend from now from 48 to 60 the only reason to do that is to get the cheaper premiums from 60 on and you'll not make up the difference okay you see i'm doing the math yep that makes good financial sense so that that's

helpful to know just it's hard to look at those rates now and then look at them when they're 60 and go, well, why wouldn't I just buy it now? But when you move it that way... So the right now is what? What's the right now? About $45 a month before, you know, the age 50. Per person? Yeah.

Okay. Until age 50. Okay. So what you would... Like when my husband turned 50, then of course it would go up, you know, a few dollars more. Yeah. And so... Even if we say $50 a month, $100 for both of us, $1,200 a month, $1,200 times 12 years.

Yeah, exactly. It ends up, you know, $12,000, $14,000, which you will not be charged that much extra. You won't save that much, because even when you get to 60, it's going to go up. Right. It's not going to go up as much as if you had because you bought it earlier you it's not going to go up as much but the the money that you save will not offset what you've spent that's what it comes down to so hey thanks for the call again it's a really good question appreciate you joining us well before you head in the weekend i got idea for you. I want you to do something free. This time of year, there's not much that's free. Have you noticed?

Everything's got a tag on it right now, including all the stuff in our Dave Ramsey store, right? But this one's free. I want you to do something free because, you know, one of the things you do this time of year is you start thinking about next year, and you start thinking about the bigger things in life, right? I want you to check in on all of your coverages and make sure that stuff like your insurance, your credit report, all this kind of stuff is done right, and everything's under control,

and you're not being charged too much for it. This is what wealthy people do. Most people get policies, they auto-renew them. They don't check them. They don't price check them. They don't shop them. It's just out of sight, out of mind. You get your will, and you stick it in a drawer, and you don't look at it again ever for 10 years,

and your whole life changes, and you need to go back and change your will. You know, stuff like that. So here's what we're going to do. We built a free five-minute coverage checkup that will show you how your coverage stacks up against what you should have. And it'll tell you what to look at and what to change and what to shop.

If you got five minutes, it's free. And you better do this. You don't want Murphy to come knocking. So text the word CHECKUP to 33789. Text the word CHECKUP to 33789 or go to DaveRamsey.com slash CHECKUP. Darrell's in Phoenix. Hey, Darrell, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. How you doing, sir? Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help? Well, I guess my question

is, I have a car that I'm upside down in, and I'm trying to figure out different ways to move it. I get people calling asking about the car, but when I tell them that I owe them the car, it kind of scares them away. So call in to see what some different techniques on selling the car. It's to the point now that I go outside and look at this car and it's like, I don't even want to drive it. What do you owe on it? I owe $19,000. Okay.

And what is it really worth? What kind of offers would you get if a buyer was going to write you a check? Did you look at Kelly Blue Book private sale? I did. It said it was worth between $17,000 to $18,000. Okay. All right. Yes.

Well, the fact that you've got debt on it shouldn't keep somebody from buying it. They just want to know that you can pay the debt off and give them the title. Right. I guess what my question is, how do I convince them to buy it and then tell them I have to get the title from the company? And it sounds real skeptical to them, and that's what drives them away. It's a normal transaction on a used car. What happens in most states, and I don't know in Arizona, you can check to be sure, talk to a used car dealer how they do it,

but typically what happens is you give them the car, and you give them a bill of sale. They give you a check. You take the check with your other $1,000 or $2,000 down to the bank and pay the car off, and then you get the title and you send the title to the buyer. That is normally what happens in a used car transaction. Okay. Should I call the dealer or the bank and ask them how long it takes to get the title?

Yeah, yeah. And if it's a local bank that's got a local branch, see if they can get it delivered to the branch. Tell them you're going to be needing it soon. And you could just meet the buyer at the bank. That would work, too. Yeah, and that would get rid of a lot of their heebie-jeebies that you're running into. I've done that, too. And you've got to look at the guy and feel like he's not going to take your money,

and you end up with a car with no title. But that's a normal way to transact a used car in most states. Now, you've got to check with a different state in your particular area, but that's how we would do it in Tennessee, as an example. So, hey, thanks for the call, man. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, this is James Childs, producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm excited to announce that we're now carried on 600 radio stations across the country to find one near you head to daveramsey.com

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