The Ramsey Show - App - Dave's Philosophy on Money and Happiness (Hour 1)

Episode Date: June 30, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions and the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Our co-host on the show today, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the Ken Coleman Show, Mr. Ken Coleman himself, joins me. The phone numbers if you want to talk about your life and your money and your career. Ken talks about jobs and getting them and careers and gaining them and living your best possible income side of your life all the time. As a matter of fact, he's been on the air for a couple hours right before he walked in here,

so three more hours hanging out with me today. Open phones again, 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Going to start off with Christopher in Tennessee, Ken. Hey, Christopher, how are you? Not hearing Christopher. Three, two. Okay.

Is this a reset from the other thing? All right, I'll try Ken and see if we can get to him. Ken is in California. Hi, Ken. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. How are you doing? Great, man.

How can we help? I have a question. Me and my wife, we just started your program about the middle of May, and we're looking, we have multiple different debts. We have auto loan debt, student loan debt, and of course mortgage that we're not considering. Now, our student loan debt, they have a big contest about a forbearance, and we're thinking about doing forbearance to help pay down that auto loan debt first. We just wanted to know your opinion on it. It doesn't matter. me now pay me later everything you don't pay on the student loan in terms of principal or interest you'll have to pay later and so all you're doing is just in a sense you're borrowing against the student loan to pay off that the the because

you're paying less on the student loan that you do have to pay later so you know you're dragging your feet on it so you can speed up the other one doesn't matter if that's if you want to knock that car loan out that's not a bad idea um but just you know don't ever be under the illusion that the student loan folks are doing you any favors it's not the business that they're in i see okay yeah so i mean all the, all forbearance means is the word means patience. I see. Okay. Yeah. And so if you delay it now, you know, use it to your advantage. Don't just delay it to kick the can down the road. Ken, that's what people do with student loans like they do with so many other decisions. They figure if they can kick the can down the road, I'll deal with it later.

Problem is it gets bigger. It's like a dead gum splinter in your hand. Yeah. So in this situation, it's okay if he puts all of his effort it becomes this is our snowball and we're just going to put everything towards this and that's people go buy crap then that's that's right so you have to be completely disciplined here yeah it's like it's you are your death on your dead snowball i mean you're game on yeah gazelle intense focused hitting it hard all that kind of stuff and if you're doing all of that then yeah that you can use the extra money to go either direction but you're still going to end up paying it so all it does is it slows down the speed of the one thing if you if you have a bigger payment

on the and speak to the details i've heard this from you before you know forbearance sounds like oh what a break what a relief but if you don't look at the fine details, you could get yourself in a really sticky situation where maybe it's actually – there's lots of levels to this to where it's not true forbearance if it's going to be a penalty later on. Yeah. Well, back during COVID, you know, people were offered forbearance on their mortgage. And what that meant was don't pay a couple payments. And people were like, ah, I don't have to pay a couple payments uh and people are like i don't have a payment that's awesome it's like no no it's coming it's coming in september and you're gonna have to pay them all and catch them all up or they're gonna do this thing called foreclosure

that goes right after forbearance so uh yes yeah bad plan so no you don't kick the can down the road unless you have to or unless you're just really dialed in and you're going to use this to your advantage. But I would not use the word forbearance in most cases to purposefully get behind. It's how to get caught up is what it really means. That's what the purpose of it is. When you do a forbearance on a mortgage in a traditional situation, that means you're like four payments behind, and they agree to

a payment and a half for eight months eight halves is the four holes catches you up in addition to your regular payment that's a forbearance a catch-up plan and i'm not talking about like mayonnaise i'm talking about catching up right so you know that that's what you're looking for and that's what the word really means and And so just beware, because anytime somebody starts talking about you skipping payments or anything else, they're going to get their money. That's what you need to remember. Again, open phones at 888-825-5225. Jack is with us.

Jack's in Oregon. What's up, Jack? Hey, guys. I've got a question for you that will seem ridiculous to other listeners, but it's real to me. I'm 37. My wife and I just entered Baby Step 7. Yay! Wow.

Yes. You have a paid-for house. You're 100% debt-free. You're rocking retirement, and you're 37. You're a rock star, man. Yeah, and it is exciting, and our net worth is just north of a million dollars, so we're feeling great. So good.

But here's the struggle we face now. Mathematically, with our income and with the savings, this will turn easily into several million by the time it's time to retire. 10 or 20. Yeah, I struggle with a sense of purpose now. It almost feels like I'm working for nothing. I don't know what to do. I've got more money than I could possibly use.

When you're working on paying off the house, that's a motivator. Everything's gone, right? So now writing checks for charity, it doesn't always satisfy me. It's just a check. I don't see the end result. Um, leaving a ton of money to my kids, it doesn't feel satisfying. I feel like that just puts them in the same problem I'm facing right now. Uh, we don't spend a ton that doesn't satisfy me to spend. So I, I, I struggle when I, so you have discovered that money is not the answer to happiness. Yeah. That's awesome. Very cool.

Good for you. So now what? Well, I'm going to tell you, Jack, the reason you feel the way you feel is because you're realizing that we were created to work. Genesis chapter 2 is where we first realized this, that we don't work to live, we live to work. In other words, let me say it a different way. We were created to contribute.

And what you're longing for right now is some work to get up every day and to go do something that matters to you. And this is where the answer is to your future. You're 37. Money's not an object. When people call the Ken Coleman Show and they get a little stuck, there's the age-old question that's not unique to me. And I just simply say, if money did not matter, I guaranteed you success, you could not fail, and you just get to go do something tomorrow that matters to you,

that's when it breaks for people. And they begin to say, well, I want to help people. So I'm going to give you three questions that you and your wife need to answer, and this is going to give you a lot of clues, okay? Here they are. Number one, who are the people you most want to help? Just think of those people. Now, what problem or challenge or desire do they have? And then what are the solutions to that need, that desire? When you begin to get the answers to those questions

and you match it up with what you do very well, this is what you bring to the marketplace, the skill to actually bring the solution. Dave, the answers are in there, and there's multiple things they can do. That's what's exciting. And change your charitable giving to where you get your hands dirty, down in the giving where you meet the people, and it'll change the visceral reaction your gut has, your spirit has, to charitable giving, to generosity. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Most people's money problems come from not paying attention. That's why before I spend a dime of my money on something, I do the research and make

sure it's going to live up to what it claims. Recently, I got a great pair of sunglasses from a company called Shady Rays. When you're looking for sunglasses, it feels like your options are limited. Name brand sunglasses cost too much and the cheap knockoffs are ugly and really don't protect your eyes. Discovering Shady Rays is a game changer. With Shady Rays, you can count on premium sunglasses that protect your eyes and are affordable they give people the best overall value in sunglasses they also replace your shades with a brand new pair if you lose or break them from day one of

your purchase and they guarantee your sunglasses for life plus they offer an exclusive for Ramsey Show listeners. Go to ShadyRays.com and use the code RAMSEY for 50% off two or more pairs. That's ShadyRays.com, code RAMSEY. Okay, we bumped up into a break on that. I want to keep that discussion going a little bit, Ken. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, my co-host today on the air. It turns out a pile of money does not make you happy. Now, we all kind of knew that. The poets told us, our second grade teacher told us, and our grandmother told us. And yet we thought, we'd try it anyway.

Sure. So why not, right? Yeah. So what it does do, what Apollo Money does do, is it does lower your stress on things that make you desperate, like taking care of your kids and basics like food, shelter, clothing, and those kinds of things. What it does do, what it increases your stress over is the more crap you own, the more repairmen you have to know. I swear, the number of things I'm having fixed all the time. And it's because I own a bunch of crap.

You know? I own a bunch of stuff. So I got a 200,000 square foot building here. Yeah. You know, we have a tornado winds hit it the other day and tore out some beautiful trees. Unbelievable. Cost us $70,000 to have the trees cut up. There were just bazillions of them.

They were gorgeous. And it had $300,000 worth of damage to the top of the building. Most of it was under insurance. But the whole hassle of the thing, and if you don't own that, you don't have to worry about that when the wind comes through. So it's not a problem. So on and on it goes. Such things to cry about, right? Yes.

But the point is, is it doesn't – you trade one set of problems for another set of problems first the second thing is is that our spirits are not designed to be satisfied by non-spiritual things whether it's stuff uh substance abuse uh you, addiction mentality on pornography, sex, cocaine, heroin, alcohol. People try to find something to put into themselves. All of us, the human, runs around their whole life looking for that thing to make us happy. And for those of us that are Christians, we have found personally that God fills that and that you get this godliness with contentment is great gain. You get this, the peace that passes all understanding.

And aside from the sermonette that I'm diving into, the thing you start to realize on a practical level when you get to baby step seven and you're you have a level of wealth that young man 37 years old is a millionaire already and he's obviously making bank we didn't ask what his income was but it's probably a couple of hundred or more and so he's killing it and yet he's still and now he kind of got to the top of the mountain and he's like what now yeah so what your point was was there's something to be done you're designed to strive and in the striving there is dignity yeah we're created to work to contribute so we're looking we're made in the image of our creator and he is a creator that's right that's exactly right well

hey look i mean bottom line is if you just want to dive behind this the theology is go read genesis chapter 2 and watch what happens. And so he's created the world, and now he tells Adam and Eve to go subdue the earth. And the Greek behind that is to create. And so the idea is that when you go out and work, you create a result. All work creates a result. And when we look at the journey for all of us, I've got seven stages to meaningful work, to significance. The final stage is give yourself away.

The idea here is that when we get to a point where we're living in our purpose and we're contributing that role that the Creator gave us to fill, then there's tremendous meaning and significance. And success, what the world defines as success, comes with that. So, you know, again, I've said this before on the show. I'll say it again. Just to crystallize this for folks, when Chris Hogan and Ramsey Solutions did the largest study of net worth millionaires that the world has ever seen, 10,000 plus, the third largest group of net worth millionaires were teachers who, you know, you're looking at in the American,

you know, just the general, the median income there, Dave, is probably between $50,000 to $60,000, maybe even lower in certain areas of the country. And the point is, is that they have tremendous meaning. They know that they were created to instruct. If I was going to pick a one word to describe their unique role, it's instructor. And they love instructing. And they love teaching and guiding. And so they have found something that gives them tremendous meaning so they live on lesson they make and

they're not making a ton of money but they're making enough and turns out they can be a millionaire with enough and and so that's the idea here and that young man 37 he just has to figure out at this point how do i give myself away i have lived like no one else and i love that you've you said this for years you live like no one else now you can give like no one else and it's not just the charitable giving he said that he goes i can't get any meaning out of writing a check right now well it's because he's not getting his hands in you get meaning out of your charitable out of your generosity when you're involved that's it uh you got to get down in it you want to produce something well you want to be in want to participate in the ministry that you're supporting in some way other than just writing a check from afar.

That's right. I mean, you can do that, and there's nothing wrong with that. But if you want the generosity to feed your soul when you're being generous, then you've got to be in the thing. That's number one. Number two is, and this is what I have done. Yes, absolutely. Personally. And I get great meaning from, and I work my tail off, and I haven't had to work for decades.

That's right. Because I enjoy running the business. I enjoy the ministry of what we do. I enjoy doing the show. I enjoy working with you personalities and watching your careers blast off of the platform that i created um i enjoy watching the ramsey kids get in the saddle for the next generation to handle this place as a succession plan unfolds i enjoy every bit of that and i work really really hard at it but none of that is for money anymore it hasn't been for money

for a long, long time. I think of the email you read from staff meeting about three weeks ago, I believe it was, a young lady, I believe from Southeast Asia, who literally transformed her life, not just financially but spiritually. And you were reading the email to us, and you got choked up, as you recalled. You were doing the math in your head about how old she was, because she revealed in the email how old she was, and that was about the time you were trying to sell a book out of a car based on extreme pain that you had gone through. When she was born.

Yeah, that's when she was born, and you were doing the math. And you're like, I did not know when I'm in that hot shower that you've told, and you're going, what do I do? Or when you're selling books out of the back of the car, or you're using one of those projectors on a church wall, you had no idea the impact, but you just knew, this is what I'm supposed to do, and this is why I'm supposed to do it. And you don't do it for the numbers.

You do it for the one person. The one person. God takes care of the numbers. Yeah, that's exactly right. And so in your career, you've got to find meaning in your work and work that has meaning. And in your giving, you have to connect to that because, you know, as soon as you get to the top of the mountain of money and it's a pile of money, you're going to go, it's not enough.

And we never told you it was enough. We just said do it anyway because the other options would be broke and you've got another set of problems. That's right. And so retiring with dog food on the table because you're trying to live on social insecurity, counting on a government that can't add to take care of you in your old age. Now, that's dumb. So instead of doing that, let's have these other set of problems that are existential problems, and let's wrestle through the theology and the philosophy of life and our spiritual walk and our careers and what are we getting meaning out of.

And so, because here's what we have told you all along. I told you this in Legacy Journey, and Hogan told you in Everyday Millionaires as well, that when you get money, the things in your life are going to magnify. The crazy in your life is going to get crazier. The people who are depressed become unbelievably depressed when they get money if they don't heal their depression and walk through a healing with that. Bad marriages get worse. Crazy kids get crazier.

Bad jobs get more toxic. Nothing gets – it all gets larger larger and the good things get larger too compassionate people become unbelievably peace you just see peace on their countenance when they when they get money and so whatever it is all the good parts of your character and the good parts of your life and the bad parts of your character and the bad parts of your life are going to be magnified so if you're dissatisfied with your job and you get a bunch of money, do not expect the job dissatisfaction to get better. Expect it to get worse.

So go ahead and do the Ken Coleman stuff while you're working the baby steps. Ken Coleman, my co-host, Ramsey Personality, this hour here on the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. For example, take the Olcheski family from LaGrange, Texas. Jeff and Carice had just celebrated the birth of a new baby boy. Shortly after, they had another expensive medical issue come up. They could have faced a huge financial setback. But thanks to Christian Healthcare Ministries, the Olcheskis were spared from a ton of medical bills. As members of CHM, they're part of a group of believers who financially and spiritually support each other.

CHM is the longest-serving health cost-sharing ministry and is a Better Business Bureau-accredited charity. It's Christians helping other Christians. And it shared nearly $97,000 to help the Olcheskis. To be a part of Christian Healthcare Ministries, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. That's chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. My co-host today on the Dave Ramsey Show, Ramsey personality, Ken Coleman. Dina is with us in Utah.

Hi, Dina. Welcome to the show. Hi. Thanks for having me. My pleasure. How can we help? So we're on baby step two, and we have $10,000 left to pay off, and we were on track to pay it off in July.

But a month ago, my husband got in a car accident, and our cars totaled, and he was in the hospital, and now he's on short-term disability. Well, immediately I stopped paying, and I started banking the money. Good. So I have enough to, by July, I'll still have enough to pay it off. He is on short-term disability, but I'm wondering if I should keep paying it or should I just save the money and wait for the medical bills to start rolling in and pay those? That's where I'm kind of confused.

How's he doing? Oh, he's on a wound vac, and his leg exploded. It got so swollen. So what's the schedule on him being back to work is what I'm asking. So he'll be back. Well, it was mid-July, and they just pushed it through to August now. Okay. All right.

And what is the short-term disability payment? How much? It's only his base pay. He's a manager, and he gets bonuses. Okay. How much is his base pay. He's a manager, and he gets bonuses. Okay, how much is his base pay? It's $3,000 a month. And how much is his bonuses? He usually gets about, over time he gets usually double that.

Okay, so he's getting half pay right now until he goes back to work. All right, and are you working outside the home? And I'm a bus driver. Okay. No, I'm a school bus driver, so I'm off right now. But I have submitted some applications out, so I am looking for something. Gotcha. Okay.

Good. And how much debt do you have left? $10,000. $10,000. You said that. And how much money do you have piled up? I have $7,500, and that doesn't count my $1,000, you said that. And how much money do you have piled up? I have $7,500, and that doesn't count my $1,000. Gotcha.

Good. Okay, good. So $75,000 I have. Here's our two options then, mathematically. One is we continue to pause and wait and pile up cash until September when he's back to work. Okay. That costs you 60 days. Big deal.

Right. No big deal. No big deal at all. Or you can go ahead and go hardcore right now, and you're trying to do it with less income than you usually have because both of you aren't working. Right. Yeah.

So I'm pausing this because you're in the middle of a storm and piling up cash until the storm comes by. You get back to work. He gets back to work. We push play, and we're game on again. Okay. Does that make sense? It's not like a lifetime decision. And then the medical bills, I mean, you got insurance, right?

Yes. And insurance is covering this, right? Yeah, and it'll pop out, I think, at $ got insurance, right? Yes. Insurance is covering this, right? Yeah, and it'll pop out, I think, at $6,000 max. Out-of-pocket. Yeah, out-of-pocket. And then they start paying 100% after that. Okay.

So you need $6,000 to do that. You need $10,000 to pay off debt. That's $16,000, and you've got $7,500, and you're going to have a little more by September, and then you'll have your income. So let's say you've got $10,000, $11,000 by September, and you throw that at the $16,000 in whatever order. I mean, you can just pay off the medical bills and then reach back and start your debt snowball again, right? Yes. You see what I'm doing? And the medical bills will probably be like 0%, right, for a while?

Oh, no, they're not. They're due when you send them. They don't charge you. Oh, okay. If they put you on a payment plan, it's because you're broke,, they're not. They're due when you send them. They don't charge you. Oh, okay. If they put you on a payment plan, it's because you're broke. But you're not broke. Right. Because you've been smart.

I'm so proud of you. Yeah. You've managed through COVID and through a totaling of a car and your husband's leg and all this other stuff, and you're still sitting there with $7,000 freaking dollars. Way to go. And our house has paid off, Dave. Ding, ding. Yeah. Okay.

Wow. So here's what Christmas sounds like. Let's go to Christmas. Are you ready? Okay. You're debt free. Yeah, I'm ready. You're debt free.

Excellent. Well, think about it. I mean, you've got your income, both of you making an income. He makes $6,000 a month when he's working, and you're back working. And so we've got $8,000 or he makes six thousand a month when he's working and you're back working and so we've got eight or ten thousand dollars a month coming in and you got seven thousand by then ten thousand towards your sixteen thousand you only got six thousand pay off by christmas you got this okay that's where the math says yeah i was just confused i got confused for a minute yeah you're doing good i'm with you i think you can i would just pause it and then when the medical bills come, just write

a check, pay them off, and then kick back in on the rest of it and get going. You're doing so good. Fascinating that they have no debt on their home, and 10 grand worth of debt, and it's kind of an interesting way of doing it, but you're right. It's going to be a great Christmas in that house. Well, there's more to the story. Of course. Behind the scenes.

They got them to that point. Yeah, that's, to the story. Of course. Behind the scenes that got them to that point. But, yeah, that's. They're in great shape. Yeah. But they're, you know, here's what happens. When you hit a crisis, you either run into it or it runs over you. Isn't that the truth? You know, and she ran into it.

She ran into the storm. And I remember you telling the story in the Message of Hope about the buffalos. They run into the storm. Yep storm and they get through the storm faster because as they're heading towards it, it's heading towards them and goes over. Cows run the other way and they can stay in the storm longer. And so, you know, you got to do a buffalo or a cow. That's it. And so when it comes to this kind of stuff, I want to be the buffalo.

Although they're really not very smart animals, but still. But, well, you know, it's smarter than a cow. It's a great metaphor. There it is. All right. Nicole is with us. Nicole is is in california hi nicole how are you hello dave how are you better than i deserve how can we help i am calling i'm having a hard time looking at your face on the computer and talking to you because your face isn't doing the same thing your voice is doing um that would be that technological delay how can we help it's the machine i'm still getting used to it um so i want to start with um i believe in a lot of the things that you guys have said so far about god

providing i believe in mana mana from the sky um and i also too being an artist believe that I am made in God's image as a creator of whatever my universe is so let's start with that so mana from the sky unemployment I've been receiving unemployment since the COVID apocalypse has started and since then I have been able to save ten thousand,000. Okay. I have, like, Amazon bills, phone bill, rent. So you lost your job in COVID. Yes. What were you doing? Late off.

I work with children with autism. Okay. Your job coming back? So I have clients. Yes, yes. When? I have certain, there's masks and certain different things involved. You don't work one-on-one with them now.

When's it coming back? When does your income come back? Well, kind of when I go back. When do you go back? Are they letting you now? Well, that's kind of the thing. There's a lot has changed in the field. So like because of COVID, there's masks and certain things that makes work a little different.

So you kind of like have a little bit of room to roam. I've been a nanny on the side as well. And that allowed me to save. And now I'm no longer doing that and going back to my actual work. What's your question? How can we help you? Well, my question is, with unemployment, you can work a certain amount of hours and still be able to receive the unemployment. I have a major dilemma. I bought the car in November, I mean, August last year.

The car since has $13,000, $14,000. I took a loan out. And since then, I've had an engine replaced, blah, blah, blah, and I'm paying for a warranty. Okay, so now the car has gone from $250 to $400 basically a month because the warranty is $150. I want to be, I don't necessarily want to be rid of the car. I bought the car because I wanted the car. Nicole, Nicole, I'm running out of time.

What's your question? Okay, my question is how do I get rid of the car or how do I pay off the car? Do I use the money that I've saved? Do I keep saving for more and more? Gotcha. Okay. It sounds like you're unemployed. I'd start with going back to work, making more money to add to the $10,000,

get the car paid off, and keep moving forward. Either get it paid off and get rid of the extended warranty and keep it or get it sold. Sell it and get something else. But either one is going to be based on your income. Yeah. And you need to get your income rolling again. Nothing keeping her from going back to work. She needs to go back to work. Yeah.

It's time. It's time. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. you may feel like there's not a lot you can control these days, but I'm here to tell you, you can control your budget and you can control what you feed your family. My longtime friends at eMeals are here to help. They have simplified meal plans and created new recipe collections such as easy pantry meals and freezer meals utilizing basic ingredients. It has never been easier to shop smarter and stay on a budget.

Try it free for two full weeks at eMeals.com. My co-host on the Dave Ramsey Show today, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, best-selling author of the book The Proximity Principle, and host of The Ken Coleman Show, which airs on 50 radio stations, Sirius XM, and is a very popular YouTube and podcast as well. Check it out. You'll learn more about your life and your career. We're answering questions about your life and your career. We're answering questions about your life and your money and your career today. You jump in at 888-825-5225. Edward is in South Carolina. Hi, Edward. Welcome to the show. Hi, Dave. How's it going? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Well, I am a recent college graduate. going to be starting my first job moving to Texas here in about three weeks.

And I am trying to, I guess, build my financial plan. A little bit about me. I'm debt free. I've moved through step, I guess, 3A in the Baby Steps plan. So I have $15,000 in emergency funds and savings. I've also been investing for the past 10 years. So I have $57,000 approximately in mutual funds. When I start my job, I'm going to have a $68,000 salary and I'm planning to make

max contributions to my Roth IRA and my 401k. Good for you. With all of that, I am going to be looking at purchasing a house. I'd like to buy a house in summer 2021. Excellent. So I'm trying to figure out, is it best to, I guess, start a new kind of set of money for a down payment, or is it appropriate to use some of those investment gains and or the savings in order to, I guess, make that down payment a little bit easier? I would use everything that is not in a retirement account and that is not in your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, everything towards your house down payment. Gotcha. So it sounds to me like that's $57,000.

Okay. Today. And so it's okay to, I guess, zero that out, even though that's been dollar cost averaged over the past 10 years? Yep. Here's the reason, okay? The data that we found when we studied America's millionaires, 93% of which were first-generation rich, and you're on your way because you are a very intentional dude.

You have done an amazing job. The data points tell us that the typical millionaire that their first one to five million dollars in their net worth typically like 80 of them had two major financial components to it a paid for house and a fat 401k roth ira and so steadily invested, which you said I'm maxing that out, and then we get the house paid off, and that's your first two things. Now, to go above $10 million up into the $100 million range or something, there's a whole different set of things you end up doing.

But the first $1 to $5 million in net worth, that was what we typically found because that gives you a base to build from. So your next big goal is a paid-for house. to build from so your next big goal is a paid for house gotcha that's your next big goal so long term where i guess padding off of that what's next after that i mean i'm 24 so yeah i've got a long ways to go obviously before retirement everything so well once you once everything is off, you max out all possible retirement, all the way, everything you can do. And then basically you start managing your income and your wealth as it grows

to do three things, live, give, and grow more investments to do more living and giving. And so some percentage you need to increase your generosity factor percentage-wise. You increase your enjoyment, your personal things you buy, and you increase your investing as you go along. And the less you're paying to some stupid bank in the form of debt, the faster that all happens. Question for you, Dave. He's single, I think.

We didn't ask you specifically, but assuming he is. Is your advice here that he not buy, you know, maybe a $350,000 house, maybe buys a $180,000 or $200,000, something a little smaller, still nice, and pay that off quicker and then continue to save, and he takes that paid-off house, and once he's married and a family, presumably he continues to roll that over, or does it make any difference? As long as he puts 20% or more down. The faster you have a paid-for home, as long as you stay in the paid-for home category for the rest of your life, the faster you build wealth. Right.

So you can factor that in however you want then. The maximum home we would tell someone to buy is what you can finance on 15 years fixed where the payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay. Obviously, the larger your down payment is, the more home you can buy then. So if you had $400,000 saved up and you still used that formula, you could put $400,000 as a down payment and still take out a 15-year as your max. Now, I wouldn't. I'd pay cash for something $400,000. And so if he ends up with $100,000 by next summer, which he very likely would in the rate he's going,

and he puts all of that down on a 300 or a 200, you know, he's going to quit whatever it is, reach over there and then get that paid off as fast as possible because that's the shortest distance between where you are in wealth is debt freedom. And other things happen in your career choices and your productivity when you don't have a house payment because you don't have to do squat and so it changes you know your you know a lot of people stay in a toxic environment because they feel like they have to financially they can't walk away because they've got all these bills you know this debt or they stay in an environment doing something they hate or where they're being held back.

And so when you don't have that constraint anymore, you make different choices with your career and your income tends to go up even more. And so because you get better jobs in better situations, you're more productive because you're not under the thumb of some. You can't say take this job and shove it if you got bills coming out. That's true. That's true. Do it, Johnny Paycheck. You know some you can't say take this job and shove it if you got bills coming out your ears that's true that's true do it johnny paycheck you know you can't do it and so um but but you you know and you you you can but i mean it's just a lot harder it's dangerous you're speaking to drivers here right or another way of saying is your motivator what's your driver we're all driven by something you're driven by by fear. You're driven by the future. And what you're speaking to is you're driven by fear. If you've got the debt and you feel like, oh, I can't get out of this job as much as I hate it and hate the people and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, because it's all fear-based instead of future-based.

James is in Idaho. Hey, James, your question for Ken and me. Hi, Dave and Ken. Thanks for taking my call. I'm a past FPU coordinator and Legacy Journey coordinator. Thank you. You're welcome. And listening to your conversation about joy and work.

So my side hustle is volunteer work. I provide counseling to my church. I'm nearing the end of Baby Step 2, but I kind of like to speed things up to maybe progress through the baby steps a little faster. My question is, is there ever value in giving up work where you're not getting paid in order to find something to get paid to speed up the baby steps? Absolutely. I mean, this is just a priority. And here's what's great about this. This is a short-term priority.

You love counseling people at your church. That is clearly a labor of love, something that you really get tremendous meaning out of, and you can return to that. You might even be able to look at that one day as your profession, becoming your dream job, whatever. The point is right now to give up that time to put it towards a second job, making the money that you need to make to pay off debt and put yourself in financial stability. Dave and I were just talking about this. This step prepares you for a fantastic financial and professional future. So, yes, it's totally okay, and I think it's recommended. So I guess the question is, can you do both would be my first thing.

That's fair. Can I turn the counseling into income? Obviously, you're not going to do that at the church, but I started doing one-on-one coaching, as you know, because you've heard the story, James. You've been following us for a long time at my church, just doing one-on-one coaching, helping people that were struggling with money. It was a volunteer ministry. And then later on, somebody else asked me about it outside the church, and I charged them for it. I went, dadgum, I'm doing that again. Yes, that felt good. And so it was born,

you know. And so if you can build a counseling business, and if you're one of our financial coach master, you've been through our financial coach master training, you may want to look at being a Ramsey Preferred Coach, which is where we send you leads and you're doing this as a business. That's not for everybody, but if you can make as much on that as a side hustle and do what you love, that would be your best side hustle. But otherwise, yeah, I'm with Ken. Do what it takes for a little while. Knock out your dadgum baby steps.

Make some money. And then go back to do what you love and figure out a way to monetize it. But either one is fine. I always look for the best answer or the best thing, which is doing something I love and making money. It doesn't have to be either or. That's right. And, you know, this is a wonderful example of many times in our life, Dave, we're going to have to ask, what do I have to give up to move up?

Yep. Yep. That's a good one. Yeah. The problem with your goals is not what you're willing to do to get there. It's what you're willing to give up to get there. That's what stands in the way of all goals. What are you willing to do?

I'm willing to exercise really hard. Yeah, but will you quit eating Big Macs? You know, that's it. That's what stands in the way of all goals. What are you willing to do? I'm willing to exercise really hard. Yeah, but will you quit eating Big Macs? You know, that's it. That's what it comes down to. So true. Oh, I hate that. Chocolate chip cookies. Melissa makes them in the kitchen there. Oh, yeah. They're just awful. Can't avoid the smell. It's everywhere. It's the devil.

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