The Ramsey Show - App - Dealing With a Toxic Roommate Situation (Hour 3)

Episode Date: March 15, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Delony discuss: How to move on from a traumatic situation, Advice on where to park money, What to do with the profits from a home sale. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. As we answer your questions about your life and your money. Thank you for joining us. We'll also answer questions about your mental health, your relationships, your boundaries, your career, your job. We talk about all of it right here. Alan's going to start off this

hour in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Hi, Alan. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hey, thank you guys for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Okay, first, I retired at the end of 2012. I'm 74 now. I make about $100,000 a year in pension. The only debt that we have is our home, which is $52,000. I have $120,000 in the bank.

I have a $62,000 and a $457,000 where I used to work, and I've been taking the minimum distribution amount since I was 70 1⁄2. My question is, do I pay the 20% tax rate, which is about 12K, to pay the house off or take it out of the bank account? I'm asking because with about five to seven interest hikes this year predicted, will that clobber the change in value over the next few years? I lost a quarter of a percent of it the last quarter of 21. So do I take it out now while it's still worth something? What is your income?

Pardon me? What's your income? $100K, about $100K a year. Okay. Well, the 20% you're referring to is not the tax rate. The 20% is the withholding rate unless you are in a 20% tax bracket. And if you make $100,000, you're not in a 20% tax bracket. Yeah, I'm sorry. So the 20% is the withholding.

So it'll be your tax rate that you'll pay on it when you pull it out early. No, I just use your bank money because it's not making anything anyway. It's $55,000 out of $120,000, and you're debt-free. Write the check today. Okay. Okay, well, and that's what I was wondering. I just didn't know about the interest rate hikes they're going to do over the next few years. Really, that may or may not affect.

What are you invested in in your 457? In mutual funds? It's a fixed income fund. Oh. It's low risk. Okay. Well, that will be affected by the interest rate hikes. And probably positively, you're not making much on it anyway.

So you got it parked very conservatively there. But I'm still going to leave it alone. I mean, I'm still going to let it sit there and grow without giving the government 30%, which is what you're going to give them. It's not a wrong answer, but I the better answer is the take the money out of 120 000 in checking write a 55 000 check and your house is debt free with the fixed income withdrawal there i thought raising interest rates would help that fund it will it will but probably not substantially it's probably not making anything and it'll make double a very little

gotcha you know so i mean but trying to beat that doubling. Gotcha. But trying to beat that. Doubling one, you get two. Trying to beat that at a loss of 30% is worth it. Yeah, that's the problem. So, yeah, I just leave it alone. Kate is with us in Des Moines, Iowa. Hi, Kate. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi. How are you? Great. How can we help? Oh, I have a question for Dr. Deloney. I was wondering how to process the trauma of having a previous toxic roommate so that I can live with people again. Walk me through what happened.

Well, so when I first moved out of my parents' house, I was moving in with my brother and what was his current roommate. And I didn't realize that when I moved in with them that they were involved with one another. And it caused like almost a control issue because it was almost like two against one and he allowed her to get free reign because he she was his partner so it caused some like tension and I would like try to clean up around the house and she would get upset that I was cleaning up after him because she thought that he should be able to clean up after himself and it just made it so it was hard to be anywhere except for my own room. So is the trauma that you were disconnected from your brother, that your brother ended

up siding with somebody that wasn't you, is that the trauma? Or is it that somebody was overbearing in your home and they were telling you what to do, and it caught you off guard and it just became overwhelming? Probably a little bit of both. Like, it was very hard for me that my brother was fighting with somebody else, but also just if my family can do that to me, what makes it so that somebody else wouldn't do that to me if I were to get a roommate again?

There you go. Okay. So an important part of trauma is that our body is responding in the present to things that have happened in the past. Okay. So the idea, I can hear it on you, the idea of being alone isn't smart, it's not good, it's not safe. And yet the idea of being with somebody else, if my brother can do this to me, can abandon me for some girlfriend, then who else? Then everybody's capable of this, right? And so there is some truth to that, that anybody can hurt you. way, whereas family is often more likely to run over other family members because they think they have the right to do that. Or they think, oh, it's just my dumb little sister or my dumb big brother. And often agreed upon, people take more time to come up with boundaries when it's people they don't know or when it's new roommates.

So this is how we do laundry. This is who does the dishes. People have those conversations with new roommates. And so for you, the word I would give you is number one, you got to grieve it. You got to just own the fact that your brother screwed you over, right? Didn't treat you like you felt you wanted to be treated. And number two, you're going to have to practice. And I know that sounds hard, but you're going to have to lean into what's a relationship going to look like, what are boundaries going to look like in this new relationship. And I would not hold new roommates hostage to the way your brother treated you.

It's not normal. It's not right. And coming into a new relationship with boundaries is going to really help that. So you know, if you're not willing to help with the dishes, help with the rent, help with the bills, help with the whatever, then this isn't going to be a good situation. Then you're just going to be on to the next. But it's deeply personal when your brother hurts you, isn't it? Right.

Have you talked to him about it? And his poor choice of girlfriends. Yeah. Have you talked to him about it? Yeah, it's been a couple years now, and I am in an apartment by myself now, and it's just a little bit affecting my finances because it's a little bit more than what I want to be spending. And so we've talked about it.

Were you about to say that he's married to her now? Yes, he's married to her now. Oh, see, that complicates it all. I think you've got to have a hard conversation with him and tell him it still hurts. And hopefully he'll hopefully he'll say oh my gosh i'm so sorry um and that'll let you be free of some of this dave have at it try it again yeah i think you can you can learn from this and say now i know how to have boundaries that's's right. Never again. Never again. Today, we have the most tech-advanced society in history, but people have never been more stressed medicated or lonely you

know life isn't supposed to be this way you're carrying the weight of your past stories and it's holding you back ramsey personality dr john deloney has been there he's felt the anxiety he's felt lonely overwhelmed and disconnected but he decided he deserved to be well and so do you and now he is launching his new book own your Your Past, Change Your Future, to walk you through a not-so-complicated approach to relationships, mental health, and wellness. This book provides a clear five-step path to becoming mentally healthy by getting connected, mastering your thoughts, and controlling your actions. Dr. John Deloney wants to help you leave the past where it belongs and get you on the

plan to healing. So pre-order your copy today for only 20 bucks and get free bonus items including a month of one-on-one therapy with better help at ramsaysolutions.com. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. He is a best-selling author and host of The Dr. John Deloney Show. Hey, guys, there's never been a better time to find a job doing work you love. And that's why I can't wait to tell you about the exciting roles that we have open here at ramsey solutions we are hiring about 300 folks this year we need developers ux designers writers to help us build the digital products that actually change people's lives and if you want to see what it's like to work here well you can follow us on

instagram and facebook by searching ramsey careers uh all kinds of fun stuff going on what it's like to work here, well, you can follow us on Instagram and Facebook by searching Ramsey Careers. All kinds of fun stuff going on here. It's a lot of hard work and a lot of really, really smart people that care very, very deeply. And so if you want to mail it in and collect a paycheck, probably not your place because we get after it. Because what we're doing really, really matters to us and it matters to the people we work for, you guys that listen. So you can apply for your dream job at RamseySolutions.com slash careers, RamseySolutions.com slash careers. John, one of the things that has happened with this surge in real estate

is a surge in real estate values. A lot of you are sitting on a home that is worth a whole lot more than it was 20 minutes ago than it was two years ago than it was three years ago there was a big hurricane and i can't remember the name of it that hit florida and did massive destruction before katrina hit new orleans so several years back, in other words. And after that hurricane, State Farm made the decision that they were no longer doing policies that covered the value of the house. Instead, they're going to do policies, homeowners policies, that they state the value. And State Farm was the biggest player in the homeowner's insurance world and so everyone followed suit and and uh sometimes some of the policies uh in other words you buy a house

for 300,000 bucks we'll make up a number and you buy a homeowner's policy for 300,000 bucks to cover the home you just bought and it might have an inflation clause on it that the next year it's a little bit more next year it's a little bit more, and the next year it's a little bit more, but it would not be unusual for a whole bunch of you listening right now to have a home that you paid $300,000 for, that you've got $350,000 worth of coverage with those inflation kickers on them, and the thing's worth $550,000, and it burns down and you can't rebuild it. You can't build a driveway with $300,000 right now burns down and you can't rebuild it you can't build a driveway with 300,000 dollars

yeah yeah and so what what i'm telling you is is that you have it is now incumbent upon you because the insurance business changed as of that hurricane that i can't remember the name of uh the insurance business changed and it's basically stated value plus or minus inflation kickers and the inflation kickers aren't enough and so you have to revisit your homeowner's insurance once a year and make sure you have the right amount of coverage for the value of the house how will you evaluate your home on an annual basis like that i mean you can jump on just one of those websites and look at it you're not going to be far off but you kind of know i got 189 000 for the coverage and this house is worth 600 grand our neighbor just sold their house right yeah so you know you're like way off yeah and so you can toss that to your insurance

provider and they they'll they'll do a little research on it and tell you what to cover the house for but you need to update your coverage because the value of your home is growing and your policy is not. You know what really freaks me out is the millions of people who in 2020 and 2021, when the housing prices started to surge, took out a big home equity loan to pay for their new bathroom they want to get done during that gap. And now, not only is the insurance coverage not there, but they're going to be on the hook for that loan. They're going to be staring at a burned-down lot, holding a check that can't replace the driveway, plus you owe us this equity loan.

Exactly. What a mess. If you'd refinanced the first mortgage, they would have required you to update the insurance, but many times a home equity loan doesn't. Wow, what a mess. You're exactly right. So you could literally be upside down in the house, like on an old day's in a car, that kind of thing.

So what I'm telling you is get online at RamseySolutions.com and click the ELP for insurance and get a free quote on your car insurance and your homeowner's insurance and keep your homeowner's insurance updated for the right amount of coverage. Because if your house burns down and you have 50% of it covered, you're going to build a very small house on that lot. I mean, you're going to be screwed up. And if you've got a mortgage, you know, your mortgage is probably less than that. You're going to end up with nothing.

Zero. You're going to pay off the mortgage and have a burned up lot. Yeah. That's all you're going to have. And so you're going to be in a mess. So make sure you keep your coverage up to date. And always price shop it with one of these insurance brokers. Now, the difference in a broker and somebody like State Farm, one of these name brands,

if they've got a celebrity endorser, they're probably a captive company, meaning state farm agents can only sell state farm. Or a lizard. That's right. That lizard thing. That's the other one, yeah. And so you can, you know, Nationwide can only sell Nationwide. And so, you know, they're captive agents is what we call them in the insurance business.

So instead, you want to get a broker that will shop a bunch of different companies and find you the best price in your situation. And so many times when someone goes to RamseySolutions.com, clicks on the ELP, and gets with an insurance broker and shops, they not only get the right amount of coverage because their house has gone up in value, but they also get a cheaper rate. And so if you're buying the same amount of insurance, a lot of people save $700, $800 a year by changing their car and their auto

and homeowner's over because people are fairly lazy about our insurance shopping. Sure are. We get it in place. It's rip it and forget it, right? I mean, you just put it on there, and you pay the bill, you pay the bill, you pay the bill, unless something comes up and shakes you up. But I'm telling you right now, I don't know what the percentage is, but I would guess north of 50% of you listening to me right now that own a home

do not have the proper amount of coverage on your home because your home's gone up in value and you didn't update your coverage. And the insurance companies do not update it. They took that responsibility away from themselves and gave it to you. And having sat in the middle of the street with somebody watching their house burn down on a couple of different occasions, that sounds like a nightmare on top of a nightmare. Oh, it is. It's one of the most horrible things to go through emotionally.

And then on top of that, to not have the money to rebuild is just a horrible thing. So make sure you're updating your insurance. RamseySolutions.com. Click on ELP. Michelle's with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Michelle. How are you? Hi, Dave.

I'm good. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Twofold. I got an ESOP distribution from a company that i worked for and it's about 1.4 million sitting in a schwab account it's in an ira and i'm with everything that's going on i'm afraid about having all my eggs in one basket. And my husband and I are both retired.

I'm 61, he's 67. But we still have a mortgage and a home equity line of credit. We don't have any credit cards. We're debt-free in the credit cards. And up until last week, we had two paid-off cars, but an engine seized in one of our cars so we had to go buy a car this week um my question is whether to given what's going on in the world and you know the great reset i was just watching i have glenn beck's book and i was just watching your program

that aired today um i'm just a little afraid of, of having all my eggs in one basket. And given what's going on in the world, if we should just take, I think there's about $160,000 that we could take out in cash and just pay everything off. You should do that anyway, but not because of the fear of what's going on in the world. It's just a smart financial move. You've got a million dollars. You should not be carrying around a home mortgage of a couple hundred grand.

You ought to be paying it off. Okay, well, that was my thought process, too. But not because of the great reset, just because it's smart to pay off your mortgage. Okay. Okay, and same thing. Never borrow money on a car again. You're a millionaire. Come on, girl.

I know I was planning on paying it off next year. How about just never borrowing on a car again? You're not a broke person. You're a millionaire. Now, with the rest of the money, what I would do is sit down with a SmartVestor Pro, click Ramsey Solutions, and click SmartVestor Pro, and find somebody in the investment business that can help you do a rollover and get that diversified across do a rollover and get

that diversified across several types of mutual funds and give you a little more safety. Yeah, I'm with you. I would not have it all in one account, but I'm not sure what you've got with Schwab there necessarily. You may not really be in one account, but I'd be in several different mutual funds with that much money and I'd be debt free. You could borrow money on cars. You're a millionaire. This is the Ramsey Personality, is my co-host. Thank you for joining us in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the Debt Free Stage. Larry and Kamisha are with us. Hey, guys, how are you?

Hey, Dave, how are you? How's it going? Welcome. Where do you guys live? We currently live in Fayetteville, North Carolina, and we just moved there from Tallahassee, Florida. Tallahassee, Florida. All right. Fun, fun.

Well, welcome to Nashville. All the way here to do a Debt Free Scream. How much did you pay off? $60,563. Love it. Not that we're counting, right? How long did this take? 20 months, Dave. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? When we first started this journey, it was $84,000, and when we ended, it was $116,000. Wow, nice jump. Good job. What do y'all do for a living? I'm a program director working with people with intellectual and developmental disabilities.

And I'm a business analyst at a university. Okay, very good. Good for you guys. What kind of debt was the $61,000? Credit cards, student loans, car payment, a car loan. We had a college loan. Well, it wasn't a loan. It was parking tickets oh no that's classic

college campus university man they'll get you that's a that's a that's an extra tax on the university yeah so you guys were normal oh yeah how long you've been married before years in june all right so what happened two years ago halfway into this marriage and you went uh-uh something got to change what happened what was what was the the deal breaker that got you on this ramsey stuff the deal breaker i think on our honeymoon we had the biggest argument ever oh no we hadn't talked about money much and so it just came out and we just had a huge money argument and it was just like man it was a wake-up call like man who was wrong i wasn't clearly clearly that is a way like you are wise he's wiser than fighting on his honeymoon he's learned yeah all right yeah i had to you know

just make some decisions it was the war to end all wars. There you go. So what happened 20 months ago got you on this plan? So I've been talking with my pastor for a while in Tallahassee, and he kind of introduced me to Dave Ramsey and the plan, and it just woke me up. I'm like, man, we can do this. And so just trying to get her on board, like, let's do this. This is going to really help us and really help uh change our lives and change but she was already wanting to do it back at the honeymoon yeah not at all no no no it was

the wrong oh oh oh oh okay i was i was the free spirit i wanted to spin spin spin okay all right so kamisha how did he get you to consider this whole new way of handling and looking at money? Well, he brought it to my attention, and I still was not impressed. I bet. And then one of my coworkers, she actually went through your plan, and her and her husband became debt-free, and she shared the story with me. And I said, okay, Lynn just told me about this. You know, Larry just told me about this. Let's give it a try.

Eight months into it, I still was not convinced. I still wasn't convinced. Yeah, we took FPU in February of 2020, right before the pandemic hit. You are a hard sale. Absolutely. You're a hard sale. Absolutely. Eight months of the 20.

But what happened then? How did you become convinced we paid off our credit card she started seeing results ah i started seeing the results and it was worth it you started saying it was worth it absolutely and believing you were actually going to make it yes clearly we were so busy because we're both in school so we're both in school um getting our masters and we have a three-year-old, and just trying to balance everything. We're both graduating this semester. So just- Oh, no.

What are your master's in? I'm getting my master's in public administration. And autism spectrum disorders. Oh, yeah. Beautiful. Wow. And hey, there's nothing like a pandemic to pucker up a university business analyst, right? There you go.

There you go. There you go. Wide open. Wide open. I've got some buddies that were still sweating, right? Like, hey, we should probably get out of debt. Absolutely. So it was definitely a wake-up call.

And, you know, we were on track ahead of time. And then, you know, when that pandemic hit, it was like our last two classes of FPU, we did remote. And so it was like, man, we have to really pay off this debt. Wow. And go full steam ahead. So I'm guessing that neither of you had a picture growing up of what debt-free living looked like. Absolutely not. No, not too much. I know my parents, you know, we were in a good position and really prepared us.

But really not, you know, for this debt-free journey was something new for us, but I knew it was our purpose. What do you think, man, you got a three-year-old. Tell me about what you're thinking about having a three-year-old that will never understand that level of stress, will never understand not being completely and totally free. We look at her with so much gratitude. We were just talking about her today, and we said she's so blessed. She doesn't know the things that she won't get to experience, you know,

that we were able to protect her from just by going through this journey. Wow. Absolutely. Changed the family tree. So will you ever go back in debt? Oh, no. Not at all. Not a chance.

No credit cards. We actually, when we took the FPU class, he was the only one to cut up his credit card, like, first day. And we cut the credit card, and we have not used credit cards since. Did you hit him on the way home in the car? No, no. I was impressed. Yeah. And we just finished leading FPU as well.

We just finished. Our week nine was on Sunday. Wow. Thank you. We just finished leading our class. Shout out to Steve. At the new place in Fayetteville. Yeah.

Wow. Very cool. Well, thank you for doing that. Well, you guys are star pupils. Leading our class. Thank you. At the new place in Fayetteville. Yeah, wow. Very cool. Well, thank you for doing that. Well, you guys are star pupils. No question about it. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Very, very well done.

Absolutely. Now that you're 100% free and you're on the same page, how's it feel? It's gratitude. It just feels, I'm grateful. I'm so grateful just to be able to lead my family and to create a pasture and to know that I'm really walking this thing called life, that God really designed us to walk it the right way and to not be a borrower anymore, never again. So we're on this journey together.

I love it. Making it happen. Yeah. Pre journey together. I love it. Making it happen. Yeah. Preach it. I like it. All right, Kamisha, what's one thing you can give us that a husband can tell his wife when she's

like, I'm eight months in, I'm not doing this. Give America one line. Be patient. Be patient. And to the wives, I would say,

you know, trust your spouse. I was so afraid. I had FOMO, fear of missing out. I didn't want to let go of things. And I had to just let go and just trust him because he was trying to lead us in the right direction. But I was worrying about my status and, you know, wanting to get my nails done and wanting to go out to eat. But it was bigger than that.

And so he had the vision from the beginning. And I just had to trust him and trust the process. And now you can get your nails done and go out to eat. Whenever you want. Anytime you want. Anytime. You got no debt. I love it.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Live like no one else. So great. You can live and give like no one else. All right. Now, when you're teaching the class, what do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is? For me, it was just really losing your reputation.

I think I really had to lose my reputation of having this status, of having these things. It's not about that anymore. I had to really figure out a new reputation. My reputation was to lead my family in the right direction. Also, I just had to stop listening to broke people. She doesn't like me to say that, but I really had to stop listening to broke people. She doesn't like me to say that, but I really had to stop listening to broke people. Like, if I didn't want to trade places with you, I'm not listening to your advice. So really, you know, just studying God's word and listening to, you know, your podcast every day really kept, you know, keep us motivated and staying on track in the right direction.

You guys are amazing. You're an absolute power couple. We're so proud of you. Thank you. It's incredible. Well done. We got a copy of the Baby Steps Millionaires book for you. That's definitely the next chapter in your story.

You are on your way. Thank you. Very well done. And a copy of Total Money Makeover. You can give that away to somebody and stir up a holy ruckus. Oh, yes. I like it. I like it.

All right. It's Larry and Kamisha. They paid off $61,000 in 20 months. Quite an adventure. Making 84 to 116. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

We're debt-free! Woo! Yeah! I don't care who you are. That's fun. Oh, man. Stop taking advice from broke people. If I don't want to trade places with you, I'm not interested in what you have to say.

That will preach, Larry. About my parenting, about my marriage, about my money. I don't want what you have. No, thank you. I will pass on that. I don't want what you have. No thank you. I will pass on that. I like it. This is the Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our scripture of the day, 1 Corinthians 10.13, No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful. He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

Abraham Lincoln said, Discipline is choosing between what you want now and what you want most. Ouch. Ooh, that's good. Travis is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Travis. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Yes, sir.

How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? First off, I need to say thank you. I feel like you and your team and your plan, uh, has definitely saved my marriage. Um, so I'm active military and we're getting ready to sell our house, which the profit from selling our house, we will pay off all our debt and then have roughly about $50,000 left. Wow. Um, so with that being said, we're, you know, we're moving because of the military.

So we're moving from Charlotte area to West Virginia. Um, so we'll be taking a pay cut, um, and we'll be debt free. So with that extra 50,000, is that something I've talked to a couple of financial advisors? Is that something that we put towards the house? We'll be using a VA loan to purchase a house. I've talked with others that say, you know, to put it in a Roth IRA. I've talked to a couple that say it's not a bad idea to always invest in, you know, gold and silver. So I'm just kind of curious what to do with that amount of money because we've been in debt just forever.

So we're kind of going into no man's land. Well, thanks for your service. So how long will you be stationed in West Virginia? Hopefully it's my last move, but probably around five years. Okay. All right. Well, be careful when you buy a home there that you buy in an area that is hot enough that you can resell it, because I'm assuming after five years you're not going to stay in West Virginia. Am I right? Correct. Okay. So, I mean, you need to be able to get rid of this house when you leave.

And so if you buy in an area that is slow-moving in real estate, it's not going to go up enough in value, and you're going to have trouble getting rid of it. So be careful of that. Do some studying with the real estate agent when you are picking the area, okay? Okay. So that's thing one. Thing two, you're not disabled because you're still active duty, right? Correct.

Yes. Okay. So the VA loan is not your best deal. Okay. It's more expensive than a Fannie Mae loan. It is a benefit to veterans and to active duty, and it should be, since it is supposed to be a way to honor you guys and gals for serving, it should be cheaper, but it's actually more expensive than an FHA

or more expensive than a Fannie Mae even yet. And so I would do a conventional loan, and if you want to pick out a realtor that we suggest, just click on Real Estate ELP under Ramsey Trusted at RamseySolutions.com. You can find the real estate agent and they'll help you line all that out and they'll show you the numbers I'm talking about. But the, uh, the VA loan has been sold to you as part of your package. And it's something that was supposed to be good for you. Uh, but they're so stupid at how they run it, as you can imagine that it's more expensive. So I wouldn't go that route. So that that's thing one.

Uh, then the last piece is i'm going to put all the money towards the house other than debt free and have an emergency fund because i'm going to put as much down as i can because we have the goal of getting the home paid off even if you're going to move later if you have a huge equity because you paid down the home aggressively and use this down payment you're going to get all that money out of the house when you sell it so put as much down as you can and whoever the advisor was that told you to buy silver or gold never go near them again yeah don't don't drink beer with them don't mow their yard just walk away man yeah here's why i just pulled this number as a matter of fact i hadn't looked at it in a while but i pulled it because of something else I was doing today.

I was on my friend Glenn Beck's show, and he's a big gold bug. And the last 10 years, gold has an average annual rate of return of 3.7%, and the stock market has an average of 12.4%. That's why I'm telling you to run from people suggesting gold. Okay? And so I do not invest in precious metals of any kind, ever. I invest in real estate that I pay cash for, and I invest in good growth stock mutual funds

that a good smart investor pro at Ramsey Solutions can hook you up with. We're not in the real estate business and we're not in the investment business, but we'll hook you up with people that will help you do the thing you're trying to do, purchase a piece of real estate, make the investments the way that we teach, consistent with the way we teach. Alan is with us in Lexington. Hi, Alan, your question. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. Yeah, my son is staying with us right now, and he has been going through severe depression as a result. He quit his job. He's from Alabama, but he quit his job in Alabama. He's working with Boeing and he had credit card debt, couldn't keep up with his credit card payments. And so they turned over to collection agency,

which then went to a lawyer. And so we came up with, cause I've listened to you a lot. So we came up with an amount, we would pay them and he's $15,000 in debt. And we came up with an amount. We would pay them. They would not even talk to us. They said they had to talk to a lawyer through us. And so I'm just wondering where to go from here. Well, that's absolute horse crap. Yeah, that's not true. That's just not true. Now, they're not allowed to talk to you about his account.

They have to talk to him about his account unless they have a legal document allowing them to discuss with you, but they don't really want that document because they don't want to talk to you. They want to bully him, and they've already figured out they can't bully you. Yeah, they may be talking about power of attorney for you to speak on his behalf of his account. Right. Yeah, because they cannot disclose stuff about his account because he's an adult to another adult without his permission. It's a violation of the Federal Privacy Act.

Right. But they don't have to go through a lawyer to have this discussion. Now, power of attorney, if you misunderstood or they misunderstood, yeah, you'd have to get a power of attorney, a special power of attorney allowing you to negotiate this on his behalf. And, you know, we used to do some of that negotiating stuff on behalf of customers that we were coaching them. And so we would have people sign these power of attorney and we would send it to the people. But the creditors, they hate it because then they found somebody they can't bully. And their goal is to bully him. So what state of mind is he in right now

he's gotten a lot better he's got he's um he's working with a therapist and uh could he moxie up five minutes of badass to get on the phone and bust him i think he could right now yes and see the other reason they want to talk to us is there's several of us on there to talk to them and they they said we cannot take conference calls so well then they said and we can't talk to you know they talk to him unless it's through a lawyer so that's nonsense that's just not true so here's what i would do i would have him um practice this with his counselor and this can be a really big breakthrough moment for him practice the conversation and have him tell his counselor, I want to practice this because I'm going to be calling this credit card company that I got behind,

and now they're raking me over the coals. Heavy conflict. My pulse rate's going to go up. That's right. And then that counselor's going to push on him in a safe environment there so he can practice this, and then he can sit with you guys. And, man, this could be a big win for him on multiple levels yeah you're you're right and even now his counselor has actually pushed him into actually

calling this lawyer i mean for a long time he just ignored he i mean it was so bad at one time he just curled up in bed and stayed there okay and he has come a long way since if you're able to i want you to high five just that one statement you gave me tells me that that counselor is worth their weight in gold and if you ever have a chance high five that counselor there's so many folks that just want to sit and chat and sit and talk and this counselor is pushing him to get out there and take some action that's such a beautiful thing i'm'm so glad that you found a therapist that is doing that for you. High correlation between this type of action

and recovery on depression. Love it, love it, love it, love it. Very good. Keep fighting, keep fighting. But the answer is no, that no one has to have a lawyer to deal with a stupid credit card company. They're just a stupid credit card company.

Believe me, they're dumber than a rock. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash show.