The Ramsey Show - App - Dealing With Massive Student Loan Debt (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 13, 2024

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me, and we are here for you. George, take those money questions, and I'll weigh in. I'm here on any of those bigger shovel, more income questions. You want more income? Let's talk about it, because that helps you get through the baby steps faster, and I'm here to help with that. George weighs in as well. Let's start this hour off with Allie in Tucson, Arizona. Allie, how can we help?

Hi, can you hear me? I can, loud and clear. George, can you hear? Absolutely. There you go. Perfect. So my question is about investing in retirement versus paying off the house quicker. We are a single-income family. My husband has his preferences set to where 15% comes out of his paycheck every month or every week to his 401K. For some reason, that has not applied to the bonuses you get throughout the year. And we're just now taking a look at that and wondering if we should make our own individual contribution to the 401k for the bonus amount, or if that money would be better used paying off the house. Aha. Okay, what's his income? His base rate is about $95,000.

Okay. The bonus last year ended up being a total of about $15,000 gross. $15,000 in bonuses? $15,000. Yes. Okay, so about $110,000 in total compensation. Yes. Has he checked with the HR team? I'm not sure if he has. We'll have to double

check on that. That would be my first step is just to talk with them and say, hey, I know these bonuses are happening. I don't see the 15% coming out. Is there a way to apply that to the 401k, even if it's retroactively and get some intel on that on their side. Okay. And if you can apply it, then go for it. That's 15% of your household income and any extra money beyond that 15%, I would apply toward the principal and the mortgage. And if you can't apply it for some reason, you can't do it in the 401k, you could do it in a Roth IRA and contribute to that. Okay.

And the max this year is $7,000. Okay. And the max this year is $7,000. Okay. You'd recommend treating that bonus as just regular income and do the 15% rather than throwing it at the house. Yeah, because this bonus is part of his compensation plan. And so I'm just going to consider it just like the IRS would. This is your gross household income. And so I'm going to do 15% of the gross household income into retirement. Got it. Okay. How much extra money do you guys have to throw at the

mortgage every month? It varies. The last few months, it's been around $2,000. Awesome. On top of your normal payment. Yes. there's a kink there. It is a rental property. Oh, but you guys aren't living in it. No, sir, we're not. Are you renting or do you have your own primary residence with a mortgage? We are renting. We have extremely subsidized rent through my husband's work.

Okay, so you're renting very cheaply and you hung on to your property as a rental. Yeah, we actually purchased it last year. Oh, while you were renting. Yes. Okay. Yeah, I think it's a great goal to have a paid off rental. That thing will cash flow like nothing, nothing else. Yeah.

We're intending for it to, whenever we do move to a more permanent situation, to sell it and use the equity towards our personal residence. But since we don't have anywhere here that we want to live and buy a house, we went forward with the rental. That's wise. You guys have done it really well. Off to a great start. All right, let's go to Raleigh, North Carolina. Julian is there. Julian, how can we help?

Hello? Can you hear me? We hear you loud and clear. What's going on? So I just graduated recently in May, and I ended school with about $270,000 in student debt. And I'd make $52,000 annually pre-tax. And I think I'm just looking for direction. What was your degree in? Computer science.

Wow. What happened that caused you to go $270,000 in debt for the computer science degree? It took a fifth year, and the school has, it's a public school, but it's basically private school tuition. Yeah. And I didn't get any scholarships or anything. Is it out of state? It is. Man. So what are you looking for? If we could snap our fingers today, what would we want as far as work?

As far as work? Yeah, your job. Let me ask it a different way. What are you looking, what's the path up the ladder for you making more money? What's that look like? What are you aiming for? I'm aiming to live comfortably and pay off these loans or at least make it so my co-signers, you know, don't get in trouble in the future.

My uncle and my father. Oh, yikes. No, but let me re-ask one more time, Julian. What are we looking to do? Are you wanting to go into coding? Do you want to go into cybersecurity? What is that computer science degree that you overpaid for? What are you looking to do? I know you're looking to be comfortable, but what is the professional path up the ladder? Name it. Software engineering. Okay. So what's keeping you from moving up right now? Well, I'm afraid of the impact on my co-signers, and one of the solutions I sought was if you join the military and do 10 years, then you could have them forgiven or something like that. Yeah, but let's take co-signers aside. Forget the co-signers.

You need to be making six figures in software engineering ASAP. And you need to pay off the two cents. Or on a path. I want to be realistic. You should be in that 65-70 range pretty realistically. Have you done your homework on this? I guess not. What are you doing now for 52?

I work remote for a small company in Canada doing cybersecurity during the week. My friend, I don't think your sights are high enough. And I'm not, by the way, I'm not getting on you. I'm trying to push you a little bit. Julian, like your path to software engineer, let's go. Let's start working in Raleigh, North Carolina. The research triangle. How is it that you aren't on a pathway to making 70, 75,

six figures in one or two years as a software engineer? I think it's just effort. Am I right or am I wrong? I didn't know it was possible to do that that soon, I guess. It's absolutely possible. You may have to pay your dues for 12 months, which you're already starting. I mean, at least you're in the technology field, but you need a ladder, a path forward. And you don't need to go to the military because all I heard was a guy who goes, well, I'll go 10 years and pay my penance and then hopefully they wipe my loans away. No, go make really good money and do what's right and pay off the loan and take care of your uncle and your father who bet on you. It was a bad bet.

They didn't need to do that, but you did it. Hang on the line. Let's give him a copy of my number one bestseller, The Proximity Principle. You need to get around software designers in Raleigh. It's your second job, coffee, lunch. Find out what opportunities are there, how they got where they are. Get after it, young man. Opportunities come when I'm around the right people in the right places,

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money in your work and in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the number. 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. My colleague and good friend George Campbell joins me this hour. And George, I gotta tell you. What's clumping your cat litter, Ken? What?

Clumping my what? Your cat litter. That's an old saying. What's clumping my cat litter? That's an old saying among the Gen Xers. I thought you'd appreciate that. That would irritate me, and I'm irritated. Well, what's irritating you? Whatever you say, I gotta tell you, it means Ken's irritated. I've got to tell you.

I think we need more haggle. We don't have enough haggle in today's economy. We've lost our haggle. We've lost the haggle. And this is not a minute issue. This is a massive issue. Let me explain. Do you know what I mean when I say haggle, George?

100%. I love the haggle. I like to bargain. It's a kind of slang word for bargain. And have you ever traveled internationally, George? Yes. Have you been to one of these markets where they're selling goods? There's a lot of haggling going on. I mean, it's a normal deal. You show up, you smile, and you haggle. And no one's upset about it. Everybody gets the haggle. You're haggling. I'm haggling. We're all haggling. We're all haggling. I think we need more haggle and no one's upset about it everybody gets the haggle you're haggling i'm

haggling we're all haggling i think we need more haggling united states and we don't have the haggle in one major area and it's got me a little upset i am in the middle of uh now research to buy my second child a car he's turning 16 in april and here i am and i'm reminded of the experience that i had last year trying to haggle so let me let me give you the the kind of the the bad guy in this deal it's carmax i'm gonna throw him under the bus just like that i am i'll tell you why uh they started this nonsense 30 years ago did you know this they've been marketing the hey we're the no haggle guys they were the first ones to come out in the car industry that I know of, and they made it a national campaign slogan. It was, you come to CarMax, and we got the no haggle pricing. And I

remember first time hearing it going, oh, how does that work? I remember when they came out with it, George, I went to myself, I'd like to haggle still. And I remember going to CarMax going, is this really a thing? And boy, oh boy, is it. They weren't interested in haggle still and i remember going to carmax going is this really a thing and boy oh boy is it they weren't interested in haggling now the price is the price the price is the price and the notion was and they did a good job and they actually won with the messaging they said look if you come to carmax you can buy your car you don't have to worry about the uh slimy car salesman trying to work you over on price but But I can tell you that it's actually hurt us. It's gone against us. It was brilliant strategy. You know why? Why? Now every car dealer

in the world is no haggle. They just jumped on the no haggle train. And I don't like it because when I buy a car, as I did for my oldest son about a year and a half ago. I bought it from private sellers, and there's haggling. You get the haggle back when you go private. You get the haggle back. And I think, now I'm going to go a step further, George, and you're Mr. Save People Money, so I'm bringing you into this. And that's why I got to tell you, I think we need haggling in every walk of life. I'd like to haggle over a cup of coffee. Tell you what, I'd like to go to a coffee shop and go, listen, I got my buddy George with me. We haggle over a cup of coffee tell you what i like to go to a coffee shop and go listen i got my buddy george with her we're gonna have a cup of coffee probably gonna have more than a cup we're probably in for multiple cups tell you what i'd like to buy one get one

free on this first one because i'm probably gonna buy why can't i haggle over coffee george well i think number one america has a lot of we have a lot of shame when it comes to social situations. I think we have fear. Well, think about it. The tipping screens is another version of the shame-based culture, which is, I feel like I got a tip, otherwise I'm going to get shamed. And the same thing with haggling. It's a very awkward, shameful thing, whereas in other cultures, it's encouraged. It's normal.

Can you imagine going to the mall with Whitney, and you're getting a little something, and you walk into the purse store, and you go, I'll tell you what, the ticket price on this purse is $150. I'll tell you what, would you take $120? Every time my wife, Stacey, and you know Stacey well, she sells everything. She loves to haggle. Well, people haggle with her. I always hear on the phone. She goes, okay. You go to a yard yard sale you know what everybody's doing haggling facebook marketplace haggle people love to haggle the haggle is in a lot of places i think it's time in 2024 george and i'm going to make the proclamation today what say you america i think we need haggle everywhere i think we need to be haggling cars haggling a steak i want to go and go you got the tomahawk right there. You're charging

$65. I tell you what, I'll give you $50 for it. That's a good deal on a tomahawk. Yeah, I'm making it up. I don't know what a tomahawk is. Well, it's 128 ounces. That's too much meat. I can't even look at that section. Yeah, I'm with you though. What do you think, George? Why can we haggle in certain areas and we can't haggle in others?

Well, some are, you know, they're standard businesses. I can't go to the grocery store necessarily and just go, hey, I think $2.50 is a lot for a head of lettuce. Would you do two? The 14-year-old working the register can't help me with that. And so I try to choose my battles. And there's places you can and can't haggle. That's just how it is. I don't make the rules. I think we, the people, could make the rules, and I'm suggesting that we all start haggling a little bit more. Try the haggle. You never know what you'll get. What if we take that reverse shame and we go, and it's the poor 14-year-old kid at the coffee shop. He doesn't know. It's not my problem. Listen, I'd like to get two cups of coffee for one. What do you think, pal? And he's nervous.

What do you think, pal? He's not going to go for that. He's scared of getting fired over this. I think he's scared of telling me, the customer, no. I think we need a little more haggle. If we can do it in the marketplace, George, I think we should be able to haggle at the mall, getting my kid a pair of shoes. Hey, here's the deal. You're charging $119 for that. I was across the street at JD's.

This is Foot Locker. Now, that's a legitimate version of haggling, which is price matching. But that's a haggle. That's haggling. So at Foot Locker, it's $20 cheaper. You give me the Foot Locker price, I think they'd do it. And I always look for the price matching policy. I tell you.

And I'll always take advantage of that. By the way, James in America, I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. All right? I love to frequent J.Crew. And I have decided, as of today, this very moment, I'm going to go haggle for some clothes. What's the worst they can say? They look at me like I'm an alien? that's not the first time that's ever happened there's a version that's classy of this you could go hey i'm not gonna ask for that shirt for half off but could you say

hey you guys got any discounts you're running you got any promo codes you could apply so you're being that's a classic millennial cop that's not haling. You're asking if they have coupons. That's getting a discount. The same end result applies. I want to say yes and. I want to ask for the coupon and then I want to haggle. I want to haggle some more. I'm going to haggle with you just to get you to stop talking about the haggle.

Can people haggle on your books? There we go. Now see this is a very good point. I respect the haggle. The answer is yes. Ken's got a family to feed. When somebody buys something from Stacy that we sell, because we do this a lot in our neighborhood, people buy and sell all the time.

They're always, nobody buys the thing you sell at full price. Nobody does. And I'm just, I'm having a little fun with this, but I'm a little irritated because I think the car industry, I think we the people need to stand up and start haggling. It's going to take some courage. So I have three tips. You ready, James? I wanted to give some practical takeaways. So here are the three how-tos of haggling. Are we ready? I should have given this to the guys to put on the screen because this is gold. George, three how-tos to haggling you can add or edit. You ready? Number one, be strong.

Fair. You've got to go into this knowing that it's not normal. Maybe they're going to look at you like it's weird. Maybe they're going to shut you down and reject you. You've got to be strong, number one. Number two, you've got to know your stuff. Do your homework. You've got to do your homework.

You know, look, Foot Locker across the street. You've got to know your stuff. You've got to know more about that product than they do. You've got to know. And then number three, you've got to have walk-away power. 100%. That's an important stuff. You got to know more about that product than they do. You got to know. And then number three, you got to have walkaway power. 100%. That's an important one. And you actually have to walk away. Here's what I'm going to do. I tell you what, I'll buy the shirt. If you give it to me for this, I'll tell you what, I'm going to go across the street. Here's my number. Text me if you want me to buy that shirt.

That's it. And you leave. The three how to's of Hagley. I think those are strong. And I've done all three of those. Has it worked? Yeah, because they can tell if you're going to buckle. You know, this is a... What's that guy, Chris Voss? Is that his name? Yeah. Yeah, the negotiation book.

Great book on negotiation. Never split the difference. Never split the difference. And Rachel Cruz and I did a whole episode on Smart Money Happy Hour about negotiation, and I pretended like I was Rick the Boat Salesman. It's one of my favorite episodes. My point is that she buckled, but that's the haggle. You can't haggle successfully if you don't use those three things. Be strong. Got to be okay with rejection. Number two, know your stuff. And number three,

walk away. Make them think about it. I love that. Now, they may never call you back and get it, but. That's fine. A for effort. So there you go. Now, that's my opinion what do you say america speak up in the comments let us know however you're watching wherever you're watching you can email the show i don't care i want to know do you want more haggle in the american economy i say yes you've got my vote i think we need more haggle especially in cars i'm tired of paying sticker price on cars.

Don't do it. I don't pay full price for pizza or cars. That's my stance. You need to follow me on your YouTube channel, and I'll haggle in disguise at the car dealer. We'll see if it works. All right. More of your calls coming up. Haggle more, America. Welcome back, America.

You're joining the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, and George Campbell joins me. 888-825-5225. Hey, the money and marriage getaway is back. I thought I'd bring this up since tomorrow's a big day, George. You got your roses? You got the candy? You got the chocolate?

What is Whitney's go-to? We have opted out of the consumerism holidays this year. roses you got the um you know you got the candy you got the chocolate what is uh what is whitney's we have opted out of the consumerism holidays this year just opted out tell me more about this i think america wants to know about this we're getting pizza at home no picking up some pizzas yeah now stacy and i have opted out of the valentine's day mania for probably a decade uh because you just i'm tired of fighting for a table. I tell her I love her every day. I'll take you out on Valentine's Day before. Two days before, maybe three days after. Kind of random. I may stop by

and get a little ribeye, make it at home. And put it on top of the pizza? On top of the pizza. Underrated move. Now, America wants to know more from our money-saving maestro. I've never tried it. I'll have to report back. What other holidays, consumerism holidays, are you guys opting out?

Almost all of them. I mean, outside of Thanksgiving dinner with family and Christmas dinner with family, we don't really do a whole lot of celebrating. Now, when you say opting out, no card for Whitney? Not really card people. Really? Yeah. Man, we've we gotta find a way

for you to send an accidental on purpose text to Stacy. To tell her that? You know what I mean? Drop the hint. You send it to her but as soon as it goes through you go oh sorry that was meant for Ken. And it was you going yeah we don't do the Valentine cards anymore. Wow. Something like, you know what I mean?

She's a big card person. Well I think it depends on the people. You know, if that's her love language Yeah, but what do you do when you're when your wife's a big card person and you're not? You do it anyways. That's her love language. That's what I do. That's what makes you a great husband.

But my wife is more into like, you know, treats and food and experience versus the flowers and the cards and all that. So I think you should make the pizza tomorrow as a romantic gesture. I think what's more romantic is getting a good pizza versus me attempting a gluten-free pizza at home. I digress. I was supposed to be talking about our money and marriage event, and I got excited about Valentine's Day. James, are you a card person?

Are you guys a card couple, or you get each other Valentine's Day cards? Yeah, but we're usually DIY kind of cards. So I see you with a pair of little scissors and the construction paper. It's more about the kids at this stage. So it's kind of a, you know, it's all about the kids. Dad of the year right there. This is something I want to know. In the comment section, are you people card givers at Valentine's Day

or do you just skip all the nonsense and do the pizza at home? I'll give you a life hack. I refuse to spend more than 99 cents on a card. Can you get a card in today's inflationary? They only sell 99-cent cards at Trader Joe's. That's where I go to get my cards. I like Trader Joe's. Hey, our Money and Marriage Getaway is back.

It's this fall, October 24, 25, and 26. Join Dr. John Deloney and Rachel Cruz for a weekend away in Nashville. Two and a half days of teaching on communication, intimacy, and money. A lot of Q&A, a lot of fun. And you and your spouse can get away and build your marriage. Platinum tickets already sold out. There's a few VIP tickets left, which includes meet and greets with John and Rachel. Visit ramsaysolutions.com right now to get your ticket. They start at $799.

That's a little bit above George's budget. Visit RamseySolutions.com slash events, the money and marriage getaway. And I heard it was great last year, or this year, I should say. It was amazing. I did get to speak. I did a great budgeting talk at this previous one. I hope I get invited back. We'll see. But it is $79989 per couple which is a steal for a weekend marriage retreat right and we make sure it's worth your while by the way that's a good time i feel i should be responsible and point out that this is a no haggle ticket price and haggle unfortunately uh the ramsey solution's not on board with my more hagglele clarion call today to help the American people. I'm a patriot.

I feel like this patriot level... Is this constitutional? Yeah. Free speech. Haggling is free speech. Don't get me started. Steve is on the line in the Motor City. Detroit, Michigan. Home of the Lions, who almost won the NFC

Championship. Steve, how can we help? Hey, guys. I'm recently running into some medical issues that has my family dipping into our emergency fund. I'm just kind of wondering how much do we bleed down that emergency fund before taking the next step, and what would the next step be as far as selling the house, selling the cars, dipping into retirement, and what the process would be like. Can you tell us a little bit more about your medical condition,

and is that going to affect you working going forward? Yes and no. So it's actually been about two years. You guys really want to go down the rabbit hole. It's long COVID or post-COVID. At this point, it's basically leaving me bed-bound for most of the days. There's no cure or no timeline of recovery at this point. I've seen people recover after two years, after three years, things like

that. Are you married? I am married, yes. Is your spouse working? She is working, yes. What's the income of your spouse? She brings home after taxes and everything like that, right around $2,200, $2,300 a month. And that's the only thing keeping the family afloat right now? Correct. So did you leave your job? Were you fired? Or what happened there? No. So I went on short-term disability because of the illness and everything like that. And that ran us through basically up until December of 23. And now the disability on that has ran out. We're currently in the process for filing for Social Security disability, but reading everything, it sounds like it's going to be an uphill battle. How old are you two?

I'm 35. She's 31. And how many kids? We've got one two-year-old. Okay. How much of a shortfall are you having based on her income? How much more money would you need to kind of not be living, you know, way below? I mean, using a budget, we'd probably $500, $600 a month, and that would be very, very minimum. That would be break-even, just paycheck to paycheck, but you would be making it. Yeah, without having to spend that extra from our emergency fund, that kind of stuff.

Well, that's not, I don't want to in any way minimize your situation, but $500 to $600 a month, that's extremely doable for your wife right now. She may be working a lot longer, but you can't. And if she's working a part-time job or she gets a better full-time job, we can get that $500 to $600 a month. Yeah, and I don't want to make excuses. It's just, unfortunately, it's to the point where we have child care kind of during the day, and then when she comes home, she's a giant help with our child,

who I'm i'm unfortunate because i'm not fully able to take care of are you able to do any work from your a computer at home uh not consistently no like a phone call like this could wipe me out well i mean even a digital job where you're not having to talk all day. No, screen time, things like that. It'd be very minimal, maybe an hour a day. So what are you able to do all day? Very little.

So it's called post-exertional malaise. But basically, the more that I do, the worse that I feel. So I could get up and I could do something all day long. Not a lot, but I could be up and moving around. but then it'd lay me in bed for the next week at a time. It's about a wild ride. It's very bizarre. I'm just staying on the money thing right now because this is about brainstorming and going, how do we get more income in? And I understand the childcare issue because she needs to help when she gets home. But friends and family, I mean, this is a rare situation.

You're surrounded by people who know your plight and they go, hey, we'll help out until bedtime. Yeah, I mean, we've got a great support system, but it's to the point where, I mean, my mother's coming over and kind of taking care of my daughter during the day. We do have other family and friends who help out a lot, and we lean on them quite a bit. So I guess it might be a possibility to expand that. Steve, it has to be. What are your other options? You have no other option.

You can't burn your emergency fund. The goal is to use as little as possible from that fund. It's not sustainable. You can't go into debt and live off credit cards. It's just going to make the problem even worse. So we have to figure out how to spend less and make more. That's the only way to get this $600 in margin. Yeah, and unfortunately right now, it is on your wife.

And that stinks. But she can make more money, and that solves this problem. It keeps you guys from burning through really important funds. That's our reality right now. So we got to work within that reality. I'm so sorry this is happening, Steve. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back, America. This is The Ramsey Show, helping you win with your money in your work and in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. We'd love to hear from you. I'm Ken Coleman.

George Campbell joins me. And we're going to go to Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Tom is there. Tom, how can we help? Hi, guys. Hey, yeah, I'm 60. Be 61 in June, zero in retirement. My wife and I bring in about $7,200 a month after taxes.

That's clear. I have about $26,000 in debt right now between credit cards and personal loans and the tax bill that's due the end of June. I have my budget out. Everything's done uh my question is in october when they are paid off uh i would like to do a uh max out two roth iras and then uh and then do my 401k at work that still leaves me about 2 000 a month extra to invest. Where is the best place to put that so I get the most return on it for the next four and a half years, five years? What happens after five years?

I would like to retire when I'm 65. Oh, boy. Well, I wish you could just announce that once you turn 65, you get to. Man. I would like to do that. I would love that for you turn 65, you get to. Man. I would like to do that. I would love that for you, Tom, but I don't know that the numbers will work out if you just stop working. Yeah, we're going to get about, we'll get no less than $4,000 a month from Social Security. And I take into fact in 2034, it's supposed to go down 80%. So I have all those numbers crunched in there and everything. My thought is if I can get around $150,000 to $160,000, $175,000, I can take an extra $1,500 a month out of the investments,

and that's at 8%, averaging 8%. I know it's pretty aggressive. We have a Fidelity growth fund in it at work, which averages 8 to 12. So I've looked at that. So I've done some homework, but I'm just curious if there's anything other than the 401K where I'm going to get hit with taxes probably when I take that out. I'm going to max out the two Roth IRAs for my wife and I. Yeah, and outside, you've got 401k through your employer. You have the IRA outside of an employer,

and then you can also invest in health savings account. If you have access to one of those through a high-deductible health plan, that's another spot you can invest. Okay. Is that taxable at the end of the year or whenever I take it out? Because that rolls over, right? You can roll that over. Yes, the HSA will roll over. And if you use it for qualified medical expenses, you can take it out tax-free. It'll grow tax-free. If you use it for something else, then after 65, it kind of turns into more like a traditional 401k, where it will become taxable income if it's not used for those medical expenses. So those are

three options for you. Outside of that, there is a brokerage account that's not connected to retirement, non-retirement brokerage account that is taxable. So you'll have short-term capital gains, long-term capital gains. But I feel like right now we need to just focus on stacking, getting out of this debt. Do you have a mortgage as well? No, our house is paid off. Good. So we have this $26,000 in consumer debt you said will be done by October. Yeah, I have a $5,000 tax bill. Our taxes are $4,500 a year, which is why I want to probably sell the house when I'm 65 and downsize. Oh, would you pay cash for the next house? Exactly, yes, absolutely. Yes, that's a downsides. Oh, would you pay cash for the next house? Exactly, yes, absolutely.

Yes, that's a good plan. The proceeds from this and get something smaller, hopefully maybe have another 50 or 60 left over from that. And then you do have catch-up contributions with the 401k and the IRA at your age. Right. So I would take advantage of all of that, max everything out, once you get rid of the consumer debt and once you have a three to six month emergency fund. Right. Yeah. I have the thousand. I'm not worried about the thousand. I have that. Well, you need more than that once

you're out of debt. Yeah. Yeah. So you might not be investing till next year. Correct. Correct. Yeah. Okay. But that's the game plan. You might need to work longer than 65. Pardon? You might need to work longer than 65, and I would plan on that. Yeah, I've done the numbers all the way up to 67, which is my max or my actual retirement date. So, yeah, I've looked at it. And that gets me like an extra four or five hundred a month to my social security not that i want to rely on that because you never know but yeah what do you what do you enjoy doing tom if let's just fast forward and let's just assume

you're you're bored out of your mind a year into retirement and you're like man i gotta get out and do something what do you what would you do what What do you enjoy? I already, this is another bonus on that. I did start, I've started two companies during the timeframe from I was 18 through now. I've started two companies and sold them. We've done very well. We've been blessed. The problem was, and I'm going to, I'm going to say this. My dad passed away when he was six months away from

retiring. And, um, he, uh, I had a heart attack four years ago. So I was like, I'm going to live like it's my last because you just don't know. And I think that's where I fell into a trap of some of the other stuff. So I have actually about three months ago, started a small company, small business, uh, to take care of me if I'm bored. Uh, my wife and I love to golf. And so we have that also, that's an entertainment thing. But as far as making extra money, I started a small candle company, local. I'm already in some retail shops looking at doing an Etsy thing. I'm not looking at blowing it up anything huge, but there is some extra cash flow. It is financing itself right now.

I'm reinvesting everything. I've only put about $600 of my own in it to get it started. So I do have some things there. Well, that's good. And you know why I asked that question. Yeah, I have a plan. And, yeah, that was my one fear was being bored out of my mind. Because you're going to need to go off the golf course so many times before you're like, okay, I'm done.

And that's my point. You can slow down, enjoy life, do those things. But fully retiring in your situation, if you're supplementing some of your basics like gas and groceries and utilities in that paid off house, working for yourself or somebody else, that's supplementing because you are way behind on actual retirement. And George is right. That's not going to add up that quickly. So having a fallback plan right now is really smart. And I would say to you that we need to change the way we talk about this in America. This idea of retiring doesn't mean just waking up and just fotsing around all day doing hobbies. There is a way to work. I think we should continue to work on some level, not necessarily because we have to, but because we want to. And I think that we've got a lot of people that are George Boomers that are moving into retirement, and we're watching people come back.

Because they're like, I want to do something. And in this case, Tom, the right do something could really help you out on those basic expenses for a while. Tom, can I ask, as a case study, what causes someone to not invest a dime until 61 years old? Well, I think, you know, I fell back on that one where my dad, like I said, he was six months away from retiring. And I hate to say this. My motto was money is only something you need if you don't die tomorrow.

And that was my thing. And just two, three years ago, we took 17 golf trips down to Virginia. So you've just been YOLOing your entire adult life. It's kind of that Tim McGraw song. Live like you're dying. Living like you're dying. Skydiving, Rocky Mountain climbing. Wow.

3.7 seconds on a bullring. Yep. Yep. And then all of a sudden, it hit me like, oh, crap. Yeah. I got to do something here. There's a lesson to be learned there. Enjoy life, but also ask yourself the question, hey, how am I going to retire one day?

I would find something that you enjoy doing because I think it's... I enjoy the candles. I've had good reception. Not a lot of margin in those candles, though, are there, Tom? More than you think. Really? More than you think. But you've got to move a lot of candles.

Yeah. That's what I'm thinking. I buy a candle like two times a year. I'm about 85% profit margin on a candle. Okay, I've got to tell you, I'm very surprised by that. I'm going to do some research on candles, George. I think we're in the wrong business. Mine are soy, all natural.

I have a great place that I can go pick up all my materials myself. I don't have to pay for shipping or anything, so everything's real close. Tom, the candle maker. Tom's figuring it out. Guy is going to candle make his way right into retirement. Light one up for Tom, shall we? This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you.