The Ramsey Show - App - Dealing With “Powdered Butt Syndrome” (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 26, 2023

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman answer your questions and discuss:  "How do I talk to my in-laws about retirement?" Dave's take on universal basic income, "What type of life insurance should we get?" from the blog: Common Types of Life Insurance, Explained, "Should I go back to school?" "Will I be able to retire early?" Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Here's an EveryDollar deal just for our listeners: get a 14-day free trial PLUS $15 off your first year of premium. Click the link below and start budgeting today! www.everydollar.com/TRS Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3cEP4n6 Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Interested in advertising on The Ramsey Show? https://ter.li/s64ye3 Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods, moving, and storage studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones here as we talk about your life and your money. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author of the book From Paycheck to Purpose and Proximity Principle, two number ones, is my co-host today.

And so if you want to talk careers and jobs and work, he's your guy. The phone number is 888-825-5225. So, Ken, last time you and I were on here was probably four weeks ago, something like that, or was that last week? It was last week. It was last week we took that call. It's good to know that I'm that memorable, Dave. Well, I took a three-week vacation.

I'm trying to remember before or after vacation, so BV or AV. That's right. So, anyway, we took a call from a lady who was worried about her husband going on strike. That's right. And as we dug further into the call, he was working for UPS. We both assured her that she was going to be fine. Yes. That they were not going to go on strike, that there was a threat of that,

but that the union and and ups would come to terms uh my uh reasoning for being so sure about that was that ups cannot afford to be offline because fedex will take all their business and so they're going to do a deal that's what i that's what i said and you had other information about it yeah and you said what? I said that if they were to go on strike, I thought that it would be very, very brief and that their fund, each major union like that, has a fund that is set aside, essentially a rainy day fund, to pay their members because unions would lose all power if, in striking, they hurt their actual members. So I said, I think you've got enough money set aside for about three months, I believe is what I saw in the news. And so I assured her that I think you're going to be fine. I don't think it'll go anywhere near that long.

And then I said, it's like the people in the news that try to scare us about the federal debt ceiling. And I don't care if it's Republicans in power or Dems in power. Every time this happens, they always get together at the last minute we're gonna shut the government down yeah and they're no you're not they're never gonna do that so it's don't be scared there's no reason to be scared and by the way it settled yesterday boy that cried wolf yeah so yeah but the you're right ups settled yesterday and the reason we bring this up is we were both right. That's right. It's rare. We've both been married a long time, so folks, we needed a moment to gloat. We get to do it here on the air, but maybe not at home. Not at home at all.

We were right. We were right. That's right. We were right. There's a lot of basic common sense observation that leads to that. Yeah, absolutely. All right, Victoria is starting today off in Colorado Springs. Hi, Victoria.

How are you? Hi. Great. Thank you. Thank you so much for taking. Hi, Victoria. How are you? Hi. Great. Thank you. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I just had a question.

My husband and I are 32 and 31. We have four young kids with a fifth on the way. We became debt-free thanks to your teaching four years ago. And I'm wondering how you recommend we talk to my in-laws about their plans for retirement. How long have you been married? We've been married 10 years, and I know as a daughter-in-law, that's not my husband's going to take the lead on that. No, he's going to do it.

He's not going to take the lead on it. You're not saying a word. Okay. Not if you want this to go well. No, yeah, no to do it. He's not going to take a lead on it. You're not saying a word. Okay. Not if you want this to go well. I mean. No, yeah. No, no, no. I'm just making this call on behalf of him.

He's at work right now. Okay. All right. And why is he concerned about their retirement? So they're both 60. It's my husband's mom and his stepdad. They've always struggled financially and have nothing saved for retirement. And at this point, we're concerned that we're the backup plan.

Why are you the backup plan? There have been some red flags over the years. My mother-in-law choosing not to work for a year because she felt she deserved a break, so she was living on unemployment. But why does that make you the backup plan? So my husband is better off than his siblings. Why does that make you the backup plan?

We're afraid that we are, so we need to talk about that. But why? What we're getting at is have they said to you all, have they intimated or come right out and said, hey, we're planning to live with you guys, or is this just a fear? No, there's just a general sense of entitlement there. Might I suggest that your husband feels obligated that you guys think you're the backup plan because he is planning to do it if they don't get it figured out and that's an unnecessary obligation? Is that possible? Yeah, I think so.

You don't like that your mother-in-law is lazy and you don't want to take care of her yeah that's a concern yeah okay i got that i'm okay with that um but the um so yeah i think for sure uh for sure he if anybody talks to him at all it needs to be him but he needs to have a real clear uh idea of what what his goal is with his conversation if he thinks one conversation is going to cause them to suddenly become diligent savers i think that conversation is going to fail if he's just trying to discover where they stand so he can decide and you can decide what level you want to participate in their help later.

Then you probably could get that going. Or if he wants to establish a boundary, he could probably get that done and say, you know, Mom and Dad, I just want you all to know we're not your backup plan. And you can say that a lot of different ways, but he can deliver that message. That's an okay conversation that could be successful, moderately. Probably not going to work real well but you could try it and at least that's a something a single conversation could accomplish is just letting them know you know we're we will be your cheerleaders and i'll coach you and help you on handling your money but we're not going to be the ones taking care of you so we need to go and establish that and given that, how can I help you guys or would you let me help you with some input and, you know, help you dial in your plan a little bit and, you know, just be of assistance?

But they're not asking for help of any kind. They're not asking for instruction and they're not asking for money right now. So, you know, you might be able to establish a boundary or beginning, establish a boundary. You might be able to get the, some encouragement and some coaching involved. That would be nice. That'd be a wonderful thing for a son to do for his parents, for his mom and stepdad. Um, but, uh, but you're not going to have a single conversation that solves her two-decade pattern of not liking to work much.

That single conversation isn't going to do that. That's correct. And so you're going to be disappointed because there's not – multiple conversations coming from her son are not going to make her go to work. Okay, that was her dad that had to do that one. And we're way past that that ship has sailed so um and always keep in mind uh folk when you're talking to your mom and dad uh you are facing the powdered butt syndrome once someone has powdered your butt they don't really

want your opinion about money or sex no input help no. No input's helpful there. So, and a lot of people's parents never talked about sex and never talked about money. And everybody was surprised later when they found out they had both. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries.

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full-service restoration expertise like mold remediation, carpet cleaning, odor removal, and more. Visit Neighborly.com today to find Rainbow Restoration Services in your area. Today's question comes from Alan in Pennsylvania. Some legislators in my state are introducing a bill to do a study on universal basic income. At this point, it's just a proposal to do a study, but I was curious what your thoughts are on the government providing low-income people with a monthly stipend. I know other parts of the world have introduced forms of it to varying degrees of success.

Okay, I'm not a fan of any type of universal basic income for a variety of reasons. I'm going to try to keep this short. First and foremost, it does not create incentive. It does not allow someone to see the value of showing up and putting in some work. And we know from human behavior, and we saw this in the United States, it's why we're in the inflationary period that we're in. When we give out more money and unemployment benefits were increased and extended, people spent the money. People don't save the money. People need dignity of work to get up, go do something, get paid, and watch themselves continue to make progress. And the argument for people that are pro-stipend, and I'm seeing this

all over the place, in the United States being tested in multiple cities right now, and it is a social entitlement. An entitlement, if you look at the word in the dictionary, I'll let you do it on your own, it does not create incentive. It actually de-incentivizes people, and they end up misusing it. So for that reason, I'm not a fan of it at all. It's also a slippery slope to a universal income across the board, which we see in socialistic countries like Venezuela, Cuba, and more. Go do your homework on how that has worked out. Yeah. Generally speaking, if you study history, communism has failed. for the little man to get ahead, capitalism in its current form today is not perfect, but it is by far in human history, all of human history,

at this moment in time in the United States of America, the little man has a better chance of getting ahead and becoming somebody than he has in any other government situation in any other economic system in human history uh this is straight out of the carl marx playbook uh this is not out of the adam smith playbook let me help you with that carl marx father of communism adam smith wrote the tome that we were all required to read on capitalism if we took economics so my friend art laffer one of the leading economists in the world says that if you pay people to not work please expect them to not work it's pretty deep yeah it's deep and true

and here's the thing so if if i thought with my 40 years plus in the financial world that this was helpful to people i would be for it even though i am a staunch capitalist just set me on fire and i burn capitalism i mean it does i believe in it to the core of my being and if you you don't like that, that's okay. Go start your own show. This is mine. And so this is what we do. And so if I honestly thought that if you were struggling financially,

if you came up in a family in a socioeconomic setting on a lower rung of the ladder, your best shot at life of having a high quality life was a universal income, I would say go for it. But I don't think it is. As a matter of fact, all of my experience and all of the data we have at Ramsey indicates that your best quality of life is when your character is increased with grit, discipline, calluses. The ability to overcome obstacles gives you much more joy than the dull hum of communism. It puts you to sleep. If the welfare system worked, people would be sprinting out of these government-funded

ghettos into a wonderful life, and instead they've set up camp there generationally. It's not good for you. You have no compassion. I have more compassion than you do if you believe in this crap, because it's not good for you. It's not good for someone. So I always think, you you know the people that think capitalism doesn't work are the ones that grew up here and were trained by a tenured professor

who believes in uh oxy who believes in carl marx more than he does adam smith and they were taught by some idiot college professor that this stuff actually works well it works in Sweden let's just keep in mind here Sweden the entire population of Sweden the entire gross domestic product output of Sweden is way smaller than Dallas okay so you can't really extrapolate that type that size of an economy to the size of an economy like ours and say something works. So that's just bonehead, asinine analysis. Okay? So that's just crap.

Now, what does work is this. Incentive. What does work is a belief that if I leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home, I get to keep it, and the government won't take it from me. That, I had a young guy working for us. Remember when social media first started many years ago? And we learned this new term, SEO. And he was a young tech guy.

And he was from Czechoslovakia, and he had this fabulous American accent, but with that Slavic accent, right? He spoke accent, but with that Slavic accent, right? He spoke English, but with that Slavic accent. I wish I could do it. Hillbilly Slavic would be awesome, but I can't do it. So anyway, Milan was his name, and Milan left to go get his master's degree. He was 25 years old, went to go get it. I love Ramsey.

I love Ramsey, but I'm going to go get my master's degree. That's my best invitation. It's not very good. It's pretty good. i love remsey but i'm going to go get my master's degree that's my best my best invitation it's not very good pretty good and he he said how you gonna pay for it i don't know but i'm gonna figure it out this is america yeah so he goes the the the cost of the master's degree for the first uh semester was four thousand dollars he goes to a garage sale three days after he quit here and the guy at the garage sale was a nike salesman and he had a whole garage full of last year's nike's shoes samples that he used to go to the stores to make the sale used to go to the vendors to make the sales so Milan buys the entire garage of last year's Nikes for 15 dollars he said my whole back seat was full my whole trunk was full I filled up the passenger side love that he goes I put them on eBay he said Dave in 48 hours I got the money to go to school what a country what a country

you don't get that with a universal stupid butt communism stipend yeah you don't get that right you know you got you know the number of people nowadays going to garage sales, buying used clothing for 10 cents, selling it on eBay for $1.60 and making $10,000 a month doing this in mass is unbelievable. The first guy that ever made a million dollars on eBay was buying used golf clubs from people that gave up on their horrible golf game, polished them up, flipped them on eBay. You don't get that if you're sitting on your welfare check. Here's one for you. I interviewed a couple recently on my show who are now making over a million dollars

a year on their YouTube channel teaching people how they were successful at flea market flipping. So they were making about 300 grand a year just on flea market flipping. Then they started making videos of how they do it it and now they're making over a million dollars that is individualism which by the way is the opposite of communism community communal is the root word and they twist it america works because it allows people the freedom to be who they want to be i know a guy that was so stupid that he filed bankruptcy because he was so bad at handling money, and he's made millions of dollars teaching people to live on less than they make. Yeah, right.

That's right. Yeah. What a country! Oh, my gosh. I can't wait for the video that people are going to cut up of you with this new accent. I think it's going to be huge. It's horrible. It's a horrible accent.

I wish it was good because it was so powerful. It's not bad. You can't detect any East Tennessee in that at all. No Middle Tennessee. No Tennessee anywhere. It's hillbilly Slavic. There it is. Just leave it at that.

It's a whole new dialect. I just invented it today. I'll probably make money on that, too. What a country. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Marcy is with us. Marcy is in Oklahoma City.

Hi, Marcy. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm doing good. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So, I was calling to ask about life insurance.

Now, my husband and I have been married for 15 years, and he is 50 years old and I'm 36. But we haven't really discussed life insurance, what kinds of policies or for how much, just to protect us for the future and to protect our assets. Okay. Well, a good rule of thumb is, and we can start with that, and then we'll back into your particular situation, is a 15 to a 20-year level term insurance policy

that is about 10 to 12 times his income on him, 10 to 12 times his income on him, 10 to 12 times your income on you. That will replace the income that is lost. So if you make $50,000 a year, that would be $500,000 to $600,000. If he dies, you put $600,000 in an investment. If it makes 10%, that's $60,000. He was making $50,000. You've replaced his income.

So that's the baseline for discussing this, okay? Then we put you on the baby steps plan and we get you out of debt, and then we start saving for retirement. So as your retirement increases and your debt decreases and your kids grow up, your need for life insurance begins to go away. So, for instance, I have no debt, several hundred million dollars in real estate, and my kids are all grown and gone and self-sufficient. So if I die without any life insurance, Ms. Sharon's going to be just fine.

So I have become self-insured by building wealth and staying out of debt we've been able to um we don't have any debt good and we have been able to build our um our wealth up he makes about what how much nest egg do you have um we have a portfolio that is about $800,000, $850,000, depending on the economy. And what does he make? He makes about $150,000 a year. Okay. And do you have any children?

He has one son, but his son's older. Okay. But the two of you have no children? No. Okay. And do you earn an income? I don't. I stay at home. Okay. Cool. you earn an income? I don't. I stay at home.

Okay, cool. All right. So if you want to replace his $150,000, let's pretend his $800,000 would create $80,000, leaves a deficit of $70,000. Okay. Okay. Ten times that would be $700,000. Okay. Okay. Ten times that would be $700,000. Okay.

All right. And the faster your, is your home paid off? Yeah, our home's paid off. What's it worth? And we don't have any, it's worth $260,000. You stay in it if he dies? Nope. Okay.

No, because I'd probably want to move home. Okay. Yeah. Okay. The hesitation told me. Yeah. Okay. All right. Cool. Okay. No, because I'd probably want to move home. Okay. Yeah. Okay. The hesitation told me. Yeah. Okay. All right.

Cool. Yeah. And if you moved home, if you spent less than 260, that'd give you more to live on. So you're probably okay. Because the truthful story is, I mean, without any insurance, the truthful story is if he passes away, it'd be horrible and tragic. Yeah. But you're going to have 800,000 plus 260 from the sale of a house you're gonna be a millionaire matter of fact you're millionaires

now okay okay and so you and you're 36 years old you're probably gonna go have a a life after this that probably involves creating some income right so you're you're you know you're probably self-insured in actuality today but if you wanted to shore it up and put a half million on him that'd be fine okay you're not creating an income if you pass away he doesn't need to replace the income that you're creating since there isn't any so we don't need to insure you and you're not playing mary poppins to three kids that he's got to hire people to take care of if he to keep working if you pass away so again we don't need to insure you at all he's just a millionaire if you passed away okay making 150 a year and again what we're reducing a very tragic horrible heart wrenching situation to a series of math numbers, so that's pretty dead gum cold.

But that's the way it works out, right? Well, just to make sure that, you know, we're both protected or... You're protected. You got 800 grand. Okay. I mean, that's a lot of protection. And the truth is in in seven years if that is invested in good mutual funds that 800 will be 1.6 so you don't need a 15 year what i

would do if you really just want super safeties i pick up a half a million on him on a five-year policy won't cost that much if he's healthy if he's not fat and he doesn't smoke that won't cost you know he's very healthy okay i won't cost a lot then at 50 okay i mean i can buy it at 62 i'm slightly overweight but i still qualify and i and i don't smoke so these are the two things that kill you on life insurance no pun intended and so um but yeah if he does that you pick up a half million five-year policy go to zander Insurance and price that out, and that probably won't cost you much, and it'll give you a little peace of mind. But when you look up five years from now,

don't renew that stupid policy, because you're going to be worth $2 million, $2.5 million at that point. And if he dies, you're going to be just fine, just like Ms. Sharon is. And by the way, she has completely planned for me to die first, Ken. Yeah, yeah. I don't understand how her estate plan is sure that I am dying first. But she's in much better shape than I am. She is. But I think it's an evil plot.

You think so? I think it could be. I think she has a hunch. I understand. I don't know. Is she going to travel the world? She's a very social person. I suspect.

We'll never see her again. She'll be one of those old women that lives on a cruise ship. I think so. She's very social. Walking. Walking fast. Very active. Walking fast around the cruise ship.

She will. That's her. That'll be her. With some of her friends. Oh, yeah. And if they weren't her friend before the walk, after the walk, they're her friend. Yeah. So there you go.

That's true. My friend. My friend. So, yeah, I think that's probably what's the way this is going to go down so apparently our entire state plan is planned around that so if i was a betting man i would probably put the chips on sharon 75 of the ladies husbands are the ladies outlive their husband yeah statistically for whatever reason but i really think it's an evil plot i'm i'm not sure ryan is in minnesota hey ryan what's up

hey dave hey ken thank you for taking my call sure how can we help so um i was just calling question mostly for mr coleman here um so i've read uh proximity principle paycheck to purpose did the click get clear assessment and uh kind of was positioning myself for kind of the next step in my role, which I've been in for nine years. That role would just more so be a supervisory position. My company, you know, is splitting off and some of the supervisory positions were going to become available. And as the split off has happened, time came for the positions to be fulfilled. And instead of interviews, they did appointments. And I was not one of those. So kind of my question is just kind of where, you know, your fantastic books have taught, lead me towards is I like project management and kind

of more teaching. So do I stick with the company, wait for another opportunity, or do I pursue kind of project management certificates or MBA with that? In cash, of course. Well, I would stay. If you're pursuing project management, stay in your current company, and you're going to get that certification and training on the side. You don't need to go to school to get a project management degree. There are some very, very clear skills, and you can get certifications. In fact, we have a course at Ramsey led by me and our chief technology officer, Brendan Wojko,

that a lot of people have taken and used to get hired. So in that case, I would stay put if I'm going the project management route. I would not pursue the MBA unless the MBA was something that was required by a certain company or a particular type of a job in an industry where it may not be said that it's required, but it's pretty much a cultural thing that you've got to do. Other than that, my friend, you know where you want to go. I think you wanted to be in leadership. You certainly like the instruction side of leadership, it sounds like, with the teaching side of things. But I'd stay put, get qualified while I'm where I am, look for an opportunity, and then move on. But I'd stay put. I wouldn't go to school.

This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jessica is in San Francisco. Hi, Jessica. How are you? Hi, sir.

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I have a question for you. I'm a net worth millionaire good for you and um thank you i would like to retire early and i'm not sure if i'm funneling my money correctly into the ira versus the brokerage because i've been paying down the house aggressively um so i'd like to get your input on how I can channel that money

to retire around the age of 55. Okay. So let me get under the motivation for just a second because it does enter into the answer. When I hear retire early, it can mean one of two things. It could mean I want to be wealthy enough to retire early, or it could mean I hate my job, and that's the soonest I can see a way to get out. Absolutely love my job.

I'm not sure if I'm mentally able to retire early because i love my job but i want to have the option there we go okay so instead of retire early i want to be able to i want to be able i want to be more financially independent than i am now and keep may keep doing what i love because that's my case, okay? I haven't needed to work for a long, long time financially, but I work because I love what I do. I'm having a blast. I had to run me out of here with a stick. You know what I'm saying?

Okay, so anyway, and I just like winning, and we win a lot at Ramsey, so that's fun too. All right, so if you want to have access to enough income that is not penalized, you're going to have to have what we always call bridge accounts, accounts that are not in retirement accounts to be able to access them before 59 and a half, a large portion of wealth. But I would think getting your home paid off, particularly in the San Francisco market, would be a big part of this as well. And so how much you said your net worth millionaire give me a little breakdown on that what how's that categorized um my net worth is just under about 1.7 okay my mortgage is

currently 160 left and your house is worth about 1.5 okay so the house is almost paid off good and uh how much is it and so that that's uh 1.4 of thes. $74 is in a Roth. The rest is in traditional brokerage. I have about $152 in savings. I have about $45. I want to throw a chunk of that. And your income must be ridiculous. What is it?

It's anywhere between $185 to $200. Really? You have piled up some. Well, you've got this huge equity in this house, but you've done a great job. Did you inherit this house? I inherited about $500,000, which helped with the down payment. Okay. All right.

That explains it. Okay. Well, you're doing extremely well. I was kind of waiting on a $700,000 income with these numbers, but the inheritance offsets that, so I get it. Okay, good. You're doing a great job. You're doing a great job.

So you're at baby step, what we call 4, 5, 6, and I'd be putting 15% of my income away into retirement. If you want to put some of that in brokerage, meaning in mutual funds, but not in retirement uh that's okay but 15 of your income needs to go towards mutual funds some in retirement accounts some in uh and everything else goes towards the house till the house is paid off once the house is paid off i'm going to put 15 into retirement and any other money i can scrape together over into bridge and you're going to be just fine you're going to put 15% into retirement and any other money I can scrape together over into bridge, and you're going to be just fine.

You're going to have plenty of money. What I'm doing now is $1,700 into a Roth IRA and then $500 into brokerage. I don't know if that sets me up in the right place. No, you've got to do more than that. Yeah, you make $195,000. 15% is $30,000 a year. Well, no, that's probably pretty close. $ 500 bucks a month that's what we're dealing with so um put more into the brokerage yeah like 300 more into the brokerage that's fine yeah something like that and then and then make

sure you're just any other money you can scrape together let's clear that 160 because if you clear that 160 um you're to have a huge asset there that you could do a lot of different things with. But the other thing is you got rid of your most expensive line item in your budget, which is your housing. Okay? Right. And that house is going to continue to go up in value,

regardless of the problems that San Francisco has. You're going to still see increases in value there. I want to pay the house off in like three years. Good. That's a good plan. Okay, so you're going to be 40 with a paid-for house, and then we're just going to load up. We're going to put 15% into retirement, regular retirement, 401K, Roth IRAs,

and we're going to put the rest of it over into mutual funds. And if those accounts double every seven years, you're going to be in really great shape at 55. They will double every seven years you're going to be in really great shape at 55 they will double every seven years plus what you put in i'm sorry you think i'm on track oh you're definitely on track and you're doing a great job congratulations you're amazing wow yeah wow a lot of hustle and i want people to hear that yes they had the inheritance which allowed them to do the big down payment but just the discipline to knock that out and to be sitting on a home worth that much money i mean that is a game changer yeah and you can do it on that kind of income yeah but they sacrificed i mean they've

worked hard she's in one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world correct and um you know and took advantage of that uh but didn't overdo it. That's right. Didn't go, well, it's San Francisco. I have to buy $5 million. No, you don't. She's in a million and a half, which is modest. Yeah, what would you say that is? That's modest. 2,200 square feet?

No, no, not even. Not even that big? Okay. Depends on where it's located. Sure, sure. But, I mean, it's – Yeah, it's not huge. This is not a – she's not living in a mansion, and she's a millionaire at 37.

Let's just keep this in mind. Well done. And I also love what you asked. We have a lot of new people coming all the time. I love how you qualified why the early retirement. And here's a woman who loves her work. She said, mentally, I can't see myself quitting. But what I heard from that is it gives her options she may not work for that

particular company but the type of work when you are 55 and and able to walk away it's not that you walk away from work it's that you may walk into something completely different and that we're not we're not made to just shut down yeah and just coast yep i thought that was interesting i love how you framed that as the motive we talked about uh jade and i talked about it earlier in the week on this show um the discussing the fire movement this oh yeah thing and early in my career a lot of people were doing stuff like teaching people to be financially independent and um that's a um that's a scary phrase yep that's a scary phrase i want to retire early and do what right you know that's a scary phrase okay so uh in her case she doesn't she wants to have the wealth and so number one you're never going

to the the more financial you, the less independent you are. You're more dependent. Crap, the more stuff you own, the more repairmen you have to know. So we dealt with all that the other day on the air. But the retirement thing is the same way. Having the money to retire is one thing. But what you said is perfect. It gives you lots of options.

And here's the weird thing. People that don't have to work will get joy from a job that they hate, that they might have hated if they had to work. Really true. That's absolutely right. Because you feel stuck. That's correct. And so our career field. That's right.

Or whatever else. And it's like, I'm doing this because I want to. And therefore, I like what I'm doing. And, you know, it's not drudgery. Real quick for those, the FIRE movement stands for Financially Independent Retire Early. And Dave, the guy who's considered the founder of the movement, I shared this on the Ken Coleman Show about six weeks ago, he's now going back to work. He thought he had enough, and now he's panicking. Do I have enough to keep staying? And he's like, can I actually miss work? So here's a guy who thinks he miscalculated, number one.

But then he said, I just miss showing up every day and doing something that I enjoy. So that guy is back in the workforce. And, you know, again, work that has meaning where you're lifting someone's life, whether you're fixing their transmission or their budget. I don't care. You're lifting someone's life. You're being of assistance to other humans. That's work that has meaning. It's man's search for meaning, Viktor Frankl.

So there you go. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, folks, Ken Coleman here. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Get your daily dose of advice on life and money. Check out all of our shows from The Ramsey Network wherever you listen to podcasts.