The Ramsey Show - App - Dealing With the IRS (Hour 2)

Episode Date: April 2, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. The phone number is 888-825-5225. George Campbell, number one best-selling author of the book Breaking Free from Broke, is my co-host today. Ramsey personality extraordinaire. Again, the phone number 888-825-5225.

Eric is in Chicago. Hi, Eric. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hello, Dave. Hello, George. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up?

So I had recently got married about a month ago. Congrats. Appreciate it. So we have been pretty much on the same page financially. We want to combine everything together, and I just want to make sure that I'm following the right steps when doing that. Obviously, this is not something I've done before. And so, yeah. Okay, cool. So what are you combining exactly? Does she have a checking account? You have a

checking account? How simple is this? So we, yes, we both have checking accounts. She has considerable more investments than I do. She's been very good with her money. And then we both have houses currently as well that we bought separately when we were single. And then we're essentially right now thinking about renting one of them while we're living in the other. But we do still have mortgages on both of those houses. You guys have any debt? We don't have no debt. Okay.

No, only the two mortgages are on the debt, which is great. So when you're talking about combining finances, it's also how do we combine this real estate situation? We have her name's on one mortgage and deed, your name's on the other mortgage and deed? That's correct. Well, I don't know Illinois law, but in most states when you get married, your primary residence is automatically shared

whether you change the name on the deed or not. Okay? Okay. And the actual, the other residence doesn't matter. I'm more concerned than the names on the accounts. Number one, I would combine the operations of the household into one checking account. That's what you and Whitney did when you got married. Yeah, and you actually don't need to shut down your account.

You can turn your checking account into a joint checking account, and then she can close hers out and move the money over. Or vice versa. Exactly. And even the name on the investments, I don't worry about the names on the titles of these things. I'm more worried about the way we start using our pronouns and that we are considering our rental house our primary residence instead of like well

i can't talk about that house over there that was his house before we got married no you get to talk about it you're now married and um you know i can't talk about her investment she was doing good with investments before we got married no it's now our investments the preacher said and now you are one and the old uh the old wedding vows said unto thee all my worldly goods i pledge i mean nobody says that stuff anymore but maybe they should but that's what you should be doing and so i don't care if you go change the names on the deeds that's irrelevant to me unless it just makes somebody feel better the only thing i do care about changing the name on is the checking account shut down one dump everything in the other one but um you know we have um uh one mutual fund that is in sharon's name only because it's some money that was given to her when a family member

passed away and she said i want to put that in a mutual fund so i just put it in a mutual fund in her name i think anything about it but there's no question in the Ramsey household that everything that we have is ours in spirit. And so that's the main way I want you guys to start looking at it instead of like, you know, I feel guilty for the debt I brought in. I feel guilty that she brought in more in investments than I did, so I don't feel like I have the right to speak up into that. Oh, yeah, you're married. Yeah, we're definitely combining our decision-making. So you see what I'm saying? It's more the spirit and the decision-making flow and the way we discuss it and the way we feel about it than the actual names on the deeds that propel propel people forward you follow me yeah absolutely and i i

think that we both are on board and we want to get to that point but you know you you definitely tell when we speak about it we still say your house or my house and and kind of getting out of that mentality you know it takes a little bit of time maybe well i mean we still we still say whose car we take into church your car are you taking your truck to church you know and so but we both understand we both own it and so you know i would never buy a car without my wife present i would never buy her a car for sure without her present and so on you see what i'm saying so it's it's the function more than it is the the label is and the spirit behind the function that i'm looking for that's what causes people to prosper it's not the technical retitling but i think it'll take

some time for you to say to start saying ours and we instead of yours and mine now if the dog goes you know goes pooping the floor it's definitely your dog that's the key it's not our dog i was told that this morning so i'm just telling you that's your dog your dog tore that up that your dog just tore that up and i went my dog why is it my dog i'm gonna tear something up it's your job to clean it up that's it so but i mean so my point is it never quite goes away but you know if you work at it and you say our goal is to be a functioning unit a great partnership not one domineering or one shamed or one whatever toxic version. See, that's relational stuff as well as financial stuff. Is that making sense?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think kind of a follow-up question too is that since we both still have our mortgages on our houses, you know, selling one and pulling the equity and putting it in the other, we'd get us closer to not having a mortgage. Obviously, it's not something that we need to pay down, like consumer debt or anything. I like it. Would that be something that would probably be the best idea? It will propel you forward in your wealth building more than keeping it.

Okay. Because everybody thinks owning real estate is the answer to everything. And I'm a huge advocate of real estate. But we know from the data that we've collected on millionaires that getting their personal residence paid for, becoming 100% debt-free, was one of the huge arcs in the story that caused them to become a millionaire

mathematically and we know that and so you know but you've just been married 20 minutes so you know if you guys want to sit in this for a little bit and say okay we're going to visit that decision next spring a year from now we're going

to rent it for a year and we may have to clean it up a little bit after the renter to sell it but it can't just be well dave said i should or if you're both just gung-ho you want to sell it sell it i don't care but if it's uncomfortable for someone to do that then you can sit on it a little bit but the point still is moving in the right direction and having that alignment that will help you build wealth so fast that's a big deal how long did it take you and Whitney to get aligned? Oh, my goodness. Well, she worked here at the time, so it was a snap of a finger.

Okay. We were lucky in that regard. She was smarter than me, better looking, and better with money. So you were lucky in that regard. Yes. I'm catching on. All right. That's how that works.

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The number of people using this and starting to use it, brand new. This app, we've had it around, but we've added a bunch of features in the last 18 months. And the popularity of those features and just the idea right now in America that I need to control my money with the budgeting process has caused this just to explode. That's so true. The financial roadmap is just one. We've got the paycheck planning tool. So for people who need to know, hey, am I going to run out of money

before the end of the month? This will help you figure that out. And some people that have the spouse or maybe they're that person who they are like, I don't want to budget. You're not budgeting just a budget to be a nerd.

You're budgeting to accomplish. And you're not budgeting to punish your spouse. We are making a decision with our money like two grownups because we want to go somewhere. That's what this is. It's telling your money what to do instead of wondering want to go somewhere that's what this is it's telling your money what to do instead of wondering where it went that's all it is i it's not a it's not i

don't really live on a budget it's restrictive no it's grown up for you to tell your money what to do and to not not to intentionally go into overdraft every month because you can't do sixth grade math that's just being a grown-up and so uh it's no lot you know a couple years ago the millennials they're not cool anymore but you guys said adulting oh that's right adulting you can't say that it's not cool anymore you made you sound cool if you said adulting about two years ago three years ago now it's like you're just a boomer trying too hard now now there's loud loud budgeting. Gen Z made that one up. Loud budgeting. Have you heard about that?

It's better than quiet quitting. Exactly. It's the opposite. It's just loudly saying, I have boundaries with my money. I'm going to make a plan for my money. Really? What you made cool 30 years ago is now cool again, Dave. The trends come back around.

It's probably on every dollar. If you want a loud budget, every dollar will do it. We could turn up the volume, I'm saying. There we go. Rhonda is in Seattle. Hey, hey ronda welcome to the ramsey show hi thank you so much for taking my call i appreciate it sure what's up so um i wanted to ask some advice um over the last few years my husband and i have really been having a lot of trouble with keeping up with adjusting our withholdings every year. And, you know, we end up paying thousands of dollars come tax season, which is now. And again, this year we owe quite a bit.

And I feel like I'm saving all year just in expectation of this huge tax bill. Why are you not calculating your withholding correctly? I don't know. What are you doing incorrectly? Well, I think I just wasn't aware of how much I needed to do that, and I do feel stupid admitting this because of the importance of it. So the answer to how do i stop doing that is to become aware yes and then go calculate it right yeah yeah yeah so um technically speaking

technically speaking here's your math all right yeah if you knew at the beginning of the year in january what your income is going to be approximately for the year, and what your deductions are going to be approximately for the year, that you could calculate the exact amount of income tax you're going to owe in total. Does that make sense? Yes. And if you divide that into each paycheck, we know what should be withheld in the paychecks then.

Yes. And so, let's just be real basic. to each paycheck we know what should be withheld in the paychecks then yes and so it's a sim i mean let's just be real basic let's say it's twenty four thousand dollars is your tax bill every year total yeah then your withholding should be two thousand a month right and i think yeah i think our problem is um it just the withholding doesn't keep up with the raises. No, it's all screwed up. Yeah. The IRS is incompetent.

They tell you the number of deductions. My daughter, when she first got married, now she's married with kids now, but I'll never, first job, she came over and said, Dad, how many deductions do I need to do? And we calculated out what her tax was going to be. She was a single lady out of college not making a ton of money and we had to claim seven deductions she had no deductions but we had to claim seven deductions to create the proper withholding so that the proper amount was

so that she didn't owe any tax and didn't end up short like you have and so um or and didn't get a big refund either one so but that's dumb i mean so obviously their tables are screwed up right right so you can't really go on the irs says you should have some no you got to actually say this is the amount of tax io it's almost like you do your tax return a year early right and that's the that's the most precise way to adjust it now if you if you hadn't had the trouble you've had it may it may be but let's say if you had a steady thing for the last three years you've gotten around three thousand dollars that you've owed every year okay but nothing has really changed then we probably know we just need to adjust it by three thousand dollars a year right

250 bucks a month right easier yeah that's easier than going and doing your whole tax return and figuring out exactly what tax is owed because nothing has changed but now if a bunch if you got married move states uh income went up or down bought a house had a kid had a kid there's all kinds of stuff that can throw that off right in which case you would need to go and run your calculation so what's your household income ronda um it is this year well last year it was about 200 combined um what's your husband do for a living um he's got a federal um government job and then he's also got military retirement. Um, Homeland security.

Okay. What do you do? Um, I work for the state. Doing what? We both have government jobs. Um, I work for the court system. Okay. I'm trying to learn about you guys for a second before I made this suggestion because here's what i would do it sounds to me and you tell me if i'm wrong

okay but it sounds like this whole thing just makes you want to throw up all the time like i just don't want to deal with it at all and because i'm afraid i'm not doing it right and it scares the crap out of me and I don't want to keep doing it right because I feel ashamed and that's kind of what I think I'm hearing and so if that's the case and I'm in your shoes I'm just going to go get some help you make 200 grand a year spend a little bit of money and go see a tax professional go to Ramsey Solutions and click on ELP endorsed local provider for some of the tax pros we have. Have them sit down and calculate this for you and tell you what to do. Okay.

And make them show you the numbers. Don't just do it blind. Right. But that way you don't have to go, God, I don't even know where to start calculating this crap. Right. Yeah. And I don't want to do it wrong again. And I kind of hear all that.

And it's okay. Now, the trick, anytime you're hiring somebody to help you because of that feeling, is to make sure you lean in enough to where you understand why they're telling you to do what you do. Right. You don't just blindly go, well, my tax guy told me. That's when you get screwed up, right? Yeah. So learn enough.

But that way you don't have to do it it's worth a couple hundred bucks let somebody else do it for you yeah definitely i think that that's yeah the other way to go and i think just moving through the transitions of all the other things you mentioned this is our first year without um a dependent and um you know getting raises and i have a i had a side job um yeah and they didn't take hardly any pretty much any federal taxes out so i knew that i was going to have to save them out for that so it but in the end it's like okay still or you could just adjust your withholding you could just adjust your withholding at the state or homeland by the amount that the side job is generating right yes either way as long as they're getting their money they don't

care right right yeah yeah have somebody help you calculate jump on ramsey solutions.com slash tax i just went through this this weekend with my tax pro and they showed me all the math and numbers and it was super helpful to break it all down so worth reaching out to a pro and have the peace of mind there and fully understand what's going on. I always see how much I'm paying. It just pisses me off. I would love to be your tax guy, Dave. That would be fun.

Yeah. It's like you're doing taxes for the Grinch. This is the Ramsey show. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my cohost today. Thank you for joining us. We're so glad you're here. Hey, thank you guys. We're seeing our numbers on Spotify and our numbers on Apple podcast.

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And it's a big deal. And also, if they've got a share button on your platform, use it. Or just tell people about it. Or click a link and send it to your friend. And cut it out and cut and paste it and say, this is a show you need to be watching. This is information that's life-changing. These guys and gals are fun and funny and helpful, and those are the things we are. Sometimes we're mean, but most of the time it's just because we love you.

Sometimes all at once. And it takes that to get your freaking attention. You've been funny and mean at the same time. That's one of your trademark moves. What? Yeah. David is in Phoenix. Hey, David, how are you?

Hi, Dave. Hi, George. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? Dave, I've got a question about a Roth conversion. I'm trying to figure out whether or not that's something that would be right for me. I'm 69, still working full-time.

I'll be working for a few more years. I've got a self-directed traditional 401K and then a small traditional IRA. And, again, just trying to figure out whether or not, you know, tax-wise it makes sense. How much is in all of those? Those two, about $605,000. Okay. All right. And what will happen, what are you going to do with that money,

that $605,000, in the next 20 years? In the next 20 years, well, when I stop working, probably in a few years it will'll just start supplementing my – I've got some retirement pensions, but it'll just supplement the money that we're living on. Okay, so here's why I'm asking, all right? There's a couple of things that go into the answer of the math on this. The longer you're going to leave the money alone, the more sense

it's going to make to convert it and go ahead and pay the taxes it's not going to make any sense to convert it and pay the taxes out of those funds do you haven't let's take the 600k it's maybe 200k in tax do you have 200k in addition that you would pay the tax without without messing with this yeah we got some other mutual funds and things okay yeah yeah so because if you just reduce it by the let's say you reduce the 600 uh by the tax amount and then it becomes tax free it's an exact wash it doesn't there's no there's no benefit to doing that uh well there's no benefit mathematically now the long if you pay the money outside number one and number two the longer you leave it alone the more it's going to make sense then there's two other factors for you to weave into whether you want to do this or not one is you've got mandatory withdrawals on it now beginning at 72

and a half okay your uh required minimum distributions or rmds you're aware of that probably correct it used to be 70 and a half they just moved it to 72 and a half okay so with a roth you don't have that gotcha the second thing is when you die and you leave a traditional the taxes will be paid by the person the income tax on that account will be paid by the by the person who inherits it there's no inheritance tax on it but the income tax will still be paid as if you you will either pay the income tax when you pull it out or they will pay the income tax when you pull it out if you leave a Roth to someone there's no tax because there's no tax on a roth okay i got you so it's good for estate planning it's good to not have to screw with the rmd but if you're

going to turn around and be using up the money in the next four or five years it's probably probably not good right right okay okay so what could an idea be then, Dave, is to use, let's say I went ahead and did that. I retire a few years, and I start living on the money that are not in those vehicles, that are just in regular mutual funds. Yeah. And then when those run out, per se, or what have you, 10 years from now or whatever, then start using the other money. You could. You could do that.

What's your total net worth? $605,000 in those that I just mentioned, and then $725,000 in just regular mutual funds. Your house paid for? Yes, sir. What's it worth? $750 or so. Okay. So you got about $2.1 million net worth.

Okay. Give or take. I mean, you may have some other assets we hadn't talked about, but that's about where we are. So I'm 63. I will never touch my retirement account. I've got plenty of other assets so i have converted it all to roth so i don't have to screw with rmds and my kids don't have to pay taxes on it no rmb no taxes

okay because i'm not going to touch it it's going to go to them gotcha it's probably you know because i've got i'm going to live off of other stuff i've got a bunch of real estate i've got a bunch of other income and so on. Right. So I'll never touch that stuff. So it's a pure estate planning and RMD play for me. So every year, my 401k here at the office, I have to match myself. But matching a 401k is required to be traditional. It cannot be Roth.

And then I flip it to a roth in december of every year so i don't own a all a hundred percent of mine has been converted to roth but that's the reason because i'm never going to touch it okay and so it's going to grow tax free if i live like into my 90s and i'm 63 it's going to be millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars just that one account right going to the kids completely tax-free it's awesome okay okay gotcha so that's the way i'm looking at it but again if you're going to turn around and pay the taxes by converting it and flip turn and take the money right straight back out it does the math does not work don't do that okay gotcha so that that's the way i'm that's why i'm trying to

go through this um and george you know that's what this is one of those things that has changed with me it's not the advice has changed but once i got to this age finally i started doing this show at 32 right wow so when i got to this age we talked about roth like it was some distant it was sort of hypothetical it's out there in the mist somewhere. And now the stinking thing's staring me in the face, and I'm going, yeah, but I did all this other stuff right, and I don't even need the money. So I've got to start thinking about it even different yet again. And so we used to say convert it to Roth because it's going to grow tax-free, and you'll have

all that tax-free money when you get to retirement, which I do. I've got all that tax-free money. I'm 63. I can access it. Zero penalty, zero tax. I can get a hold of it right now if I want it, right? But why would I? It's growing for the next 20 years with zero tax on that growth.

Nowhere else I can put it that it's going to do that for me or for them. And so it's changed my perspective of how important that tax-free thing is when you look at it through the lens of the estate tax or the RMD. Yeah. And for people wondering out there, should I be doing this? There's a certain spot in the baby steps. We tell you that's the right point. It's not in baby steps one, two, three, even four. It's seven. It's once you have a paid for house, then you can take the hit and pay the taxes on that. But before that, you should be focused on the home payoff. That's a very important clarification.

Investing 15% before that. We were talking to a multi-millionaire Baby Step 7 guy, and I just assumed everybody knew that. So you're good clarification. I don't want people to go out there just converting left and right after hearing that call. That man's in a very different place. He's got a paid-for house. He's done the Baby Steps. Yeah, he's got extra money laying around.

You've got extra money laying around, and you're in your 40s, 50s, or 60s, and you're in baby step seven, and you want to advance your wealth. The way to do it is to get the government's hands off of a big block of it by converting it to Roth. And the RMDs, these required minimum distributions, the reason they have those on traditional is because the government wants their tax money. Yeah.

And they don't get any tax money out of the Roth. It's done. You've already paid it. So they're going to get their money. They're going to get it out of your kid's hide or out of your hide with the RMD or when you take it out otherwise. So yeah, or when you convert it, they're going to get their money. So the traditional is going to be taxed.

It's just a matter on who and when. And so you can control all of that with this conversion discussion. So you can talk to one of our SmartVestor pros, and they can help you do the calculations on this. Go to RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor and get somebody that we recommend in your area. George Campbell Ramsey personality is our co-host today open phones at 888-825-5225. Kyle is with us in Milwaukee. Hi, Kyle. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, guys. Thanks for having me on. Sure. What's up? So I have a quick question kind of that my wife and I have been brainstorming. I took a job about a year ago that makes me commute 50 minutes one way. Um, and this is kind of, you know, um, causing a little conflict in work schedule with her being a teacher and working first shift and me kind of working some days first and second shift, but most days just, you know,

second shift. We don't really see each other, um, that much, but, um, we're kind of in a pickle because we, we do have a good deal in terms of, you know, expenses. Our rent is only like $400. It's kind of a deal that we got when we, you know, moved in together during college. What do you make? What do I make? Well, we together make about $ 120. We bring in about 120. What do you make? Um, I make about 7,000 a month. She's a teacher.

She makes about three. So about 10, 10, 10. And if you were to move close to your work, how far is she from hers? Well, the thing is she could get a different job since she's a teacher. She could get a job, um, you know, kind of in any city, you know, the market for... Yeah, because she's not making much. No, she's not. So that's kind of the other thing. It's like she can be flexible with her job and we can move closer here for time's sake. What's the difference in rent from where you are now to where work is? Yeah, that's actually a great question.

The closer you get to Milwaukee, the more expensive it gets, you know, in terms of, you know, taxes and whatnot at the end of the year. So the difference would probably be, I mean, you know, going from $400 to like $1,500 plus, $2,000 plus. You guys make $10,000. That's $1,000 to like $1,500,000 plus, $2,000,000 plus. You guys make $10,000,000. Mortgage. That's $1,000 a month. Yeah.

$1,000 a month. Yeah. This doesn't seem like a big conundrum financially for you guys. No, I don't think it would be, but, you know, I watch your show and whatnot too, and I'm like, you know, we're calculating everything, and we're like in five years if we just kept doing this we could have like three hundred thousand dollars in cash um saved up we could purchase a home um straight up in cash you know we wouldn't have in five years

you would have three hundred thousand which is sixty thousand a year if you reduce that by twelve thousand a year that'd be forty,000 a year you're saving. So in five years, you'd have $250,000. Okay. And that's not including if you get a raise in the next five years or if she gets a better-paying job. So those are other factors that play into this. My point is the fact that you have cheap rent is not what's causing you to buy a house in five years it's your incredible savings rate yeah we're pretty we're pretty frugal when we watch you we watch you know grand steph stephan

yeah that's what that's what did i mean not graham stephan he's great but i'm but he didn't do it you did it but you're you're frugal that's my point000, 48,000 of the 60 a year you're talking about saving has nothing to do with the rent. You understood what I did? Yeah. 300 divided by 5 is 60 minus 12,000 for increasing $1, dollars a month is 48 yeah okay so 48 times five basically 250 000 you're going to have instead of 300 000 it makes a dent and that's the difference in the rent deal so moving does not keep you from accomplishing that exact same goal except that

you're not going to buy 300 000 our house for house for cash. You're going to buy a $250,000 house. But I'm saying you're right on track for all that. That's what I'm thinking. So I don't know. I don't know. I know what we would do, but we're weird in so many ways. Sharon and I, I have never in my life had a long commute. And so, I mean, this morning I drove eight minutes to the office.

And he lives 15 minutes away. You do the math how fast he was going down the interstate. But anyway, that's also true. But aside from my driving habits, the chance I'm burning up two hours of my life a day is pretty close to zero. Yeah, that's the thing. You get your life back. My dad did this growing up, Kyle. He drove an hour each way to work outside of Boston, and it took a toll on him. I just talked to him the other day, and he said, man, you don't know what that did to me for 20 years doing that and i don't think it's worth it yeah you can avoid it i would

change something at you know now i can do it i can do it for a short period of time i can do anything for a short period of time we can embrace pain to have a greater outcome that's an amazing thing what you're talking about doing is you know we can put up with this if it gets us to our goal of paying cash for a house i like your your mindset with that um and so but there's a lot of different things that could change you could change jobs you could change locations you could change entire cities you could change a lot of things but uh but i'm doing some number of those variables to get my life back as a newly married guy that never sees his wife that's just that's hard yeah i'm a short commute guy that's so i wouldn't be able to do that and the rent's not five thousand dollars i am a complete wuss i have to have my home time well i think

you'd have more road rage if you had a longer commute america doesn't need that right now dave we need healing you know longer dave's on the road. Why are you saying I have road rage? I do not have road rage. I've driven behind you and in front of you. That has nothing to do with road rage. It has to do with you being in the way. My little Tesla car. Get out of the way. You and your little battery car. Move over. Get out of the way. And then you

won't have a problem. You've seen that Mad Max Fury road? There's a sign that says don't drive in the left lane if you're slow. Dang. There's a sign that says that, George. It can only go so fast it's on a battery. Get in the right lane, and then you don't have these problems. It's not a problem for me. I don't have any road rage at all.

Mad Max Fury Road is a documentary about your driving. That's not even a fictional movie. Fury Road. Fury Road. It just filmed Dave driving and then CGI'd it with some actors. That's all it was. I have never flipped a soul off. And it's been 20 years since I flipped somebody off.

Turned from I never to it was 20 years. Well, I had to be honest. But I don't have road roads. I don't get mad. I drive fast, but I don't get mad. Thank you. I get frustrated with people like you in the wrong lane. But other than that, move your little battery car over.

Oh, man. Those little battery car over oh man those little battery cars are supposed to go fast you could just push on that thing and make it i could take you in a race i know you could you probably could you're too competitive yeah you run fast i've seen you run so you're quick you're quick on your feet you're that guy that's fine so if we don't laugh we cry the deal is this okay there always, it's a good discussion with Kyle in Milwaukee because there's always a tradeoff in personal finance. Some of you are listening and going, I live in L.A., everything's an hour commute. Just get on the 405.

Now you're talking an hour right there. I mean, period. So I get it. I get it. I live in Nashville, so I'm spoiled as long as i don't try to go to nashville which now takes three times as much time because all you people from la moved here so uh and the stinking place is now crowded but anyway the uh but but you know i understand some of you a commute's a normal thing that's okay so i was saying i know what i would do but that's not a a financial principle it's

not a moral imperative that if he wants to do that and and it's fine with him and it's fine with his wife but he called because it wasn't fine and so but you get to make choices and when you're making choices there's always a trade-off the choice is i'm going to drive a i'm going to drive a not so great car so later in my life i've got so stinking much money i can drive whatever i want to drive i'm going to live like no one else so that later i can live and give like no one else when you say that you're saying i'm making choices and what we want you to do more than just follow us blindly, is learn that principle of intentionality. Because no one wins the Super Bowl on accident.

No one has a great marriage accidentally. No one accidentally builds wealth. And so be very intentional and look at it and go, I'm going to make that trade for that result. And so we're saying, are we going to make a $1,000 a month trade to not have a two-hour commute? We're both saying we personally would. As long as it's a quarter of your take-home pay,

no more than that on the rent. Exactly. And it was. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time.