The Ramsey Show - App - Debt Aggravation Can Be a Very Good Thing (Hour 1)

Episode Date: June 19, 2018

The show about you

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is your show. Thank you for joining us open phones at 888-825-5225 that's 888-825-5225 as we talk about your life and your money britney's with us in columbus ohio hi britney welcome to the dave ramsey show hi dave how are you better than i deserve what's? So I just have a question. I have some student loan debt and each month it accrues interest because I'm on an income-based repayment plan. So it accrues more, obviously, than I'm paying each month. So I'm just trying to see if I should move up on my debt snowball or not. No. No? It's going to pay it off in exactly the same time.

Well, I'm on the loan forgiveness, but I only pay $38 a month. Yeah, but you're going to get to it long before loan forgiveness happens. So the only thing that's going to happen is you're either going to pay extra on it by moving it up in the debt snowball, or it's going to build up more of a balance, and the money you would have paid extra on it is now going to a different debt. And it works out exactly the same mathematically to move it up or not, even though the interest is running backward on you. I don't blame you for being aggravated by that, and I'm glad you realized it, and I'm glad it aggravates you because that's going to motivate you to get after it.

Yeah, because this month, last month, I paid off some debt, and I thought I was doing good. You are. Yeah, and then I had a big balance, and I was like, what the heck? Yeah, you are. So how much have you paid off so far? We just started in May, and, I mean, we were able to pay $1,250 last month to debt. Hey, that's a big deal. Yeah, I know, but then I got hit with $1,000 interest on my student loan.

Yeah, but you were hit with that in January, February, and March, too. Yeah, true. You just didn't know it. You weren't watching, but now you're paying attention and it's making you mad. That's good. You're doing great. You got a great start. You're going to be fine.

You'll be fine. How much total debt have you got? Total debt, I have $70,000. Okay. And what's your household income? $82,000. That's our gross income. Okay.

All right. Well, we'll just keep cranking on that budget, and let's get where we're throwing more than $1,200, because you need to be paying more than $15,000 out of $80,000 towards your debt. With that big an income, I want you to increase what you're paying on your debt but you've got a great start you got a great start let's just crank it up continuing to get more intense continuing to get more focused and you're going to get there you're going to arrive at debt free at exactly the same time as if you move the debt snow or remove the student loans up into the debt snowball. It won't matter a bit.

But right now, you really do need the encouragement of knocking some off. You need to have that sense that we're moving in the right direction. Elizabeth's in Chicago. Hi, Elizabeth. How are you? Hey, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? I was wondering, my husband and I are in steps four, five, and six, and so we're, of course, contributing 15% to our retirement. And my company is now offering a Roth 401K, which they did not offer before, starting July 1st. So I was kind of wondering how to prioritize. We both are maxing out our Roth IRAs as well as taking advantage of company matches in non-Roth 401Ks. So how do we prioritize those accounts with our contributions? Well, there's three pieces of this.

There's the old IRA or the old 401K before you converted to Roth because you're going to convert to Roth right now. The balance from before, you don't need to convert it right now. But going forward, I would put everything in Roth. And so there's a current contribution, the past contributions, and the match. The past contributions are in a traditional. We're going to leave them there for right now. The current contributions are going to turn into Roth as of July.

That's awesome. They're going to grow from this point forward tax-free. The matching portion is never Roth. It's not allowed to be. It's always in an after in a before tax setting. And so at some point later on, when you're really doing well, you've gotten the house paid off and other things, and you want to go back and do some more investing, you can flip that traditional portion over to Roth and pay the taxes on that portion. And you can flip any of the match over to Roth and pay that portion.

I actually take my match and roll it to Roth every year, each year after the match is done here at our company. But I'm able to pay the taxes separately from that. Right now you're still working on maybe step six to pay off your house, and I want you to limit what's going into retirement to only 15% of your income right now. You remember that, right? Yeah. So for right now, let's just stay 15% of your income but convert it to Roth,

just like your regular IRAs or Roth IRAs now, but then go back later and roll the matching portion and the old 401K into Roth after you get your house paid off and you've got some extra money to do that. So, hey, good question. Thanks for joining us. Open phones this hour as we talk about your life and your money. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window covering.

You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you save even more. The promo code RAMSY is how you get the best deal. Check it out. Blinds.com, use the promo code RAMSY. Tony's in Massachusetts. How can I get my wife on the same page as I when it comes to side job opportunities? We're on baby step two, and I was offered a side gig on Fridays and Saturdays worth an extra $400 a week. My wife isn't fond of the idea.

She thinks I will never be home. Am I being overzealous? She doesn't want to get out of debt as bad as you do. side gig on Fridays and Saturdays worth an extra 400 a week. My wife isn't fond of the idea. She thinks I will never be home. Am I being overzealous? She doesn't want to get out of debt as bad as you do. I don't know how to fix that exactly, other than the two of you need to start talking about why you're getting out of debt a lot more rather than what you're doing to get out of debt. If she was fired up about getting out of debt, she would be kicking your butt out the door to do an extra job.

But she's not fired up to get out of debt. That's what this is telling us. And why is she not fired up to get out of debt? Because she hasn't figured out why she wants to be out of debt. What would it be like to have no payments? What would it be like to be able to invest and become a millionaire? What would it be like to be able to invest and become a millionaire what would it be able to be like to be able to increase our generosity all of that is what happens when you get out of debt you've obviously got that wrapped up tony you got that in your head she does not otherwise um she'd be sending you out the door

my wife grew up on a farm and her dad owned a market, which means they worked all the time. So I've never had an issue with my wife doing anything except, why aren't you at work? She doesn't know anything else, and she has a pretty low tolerance for people who don't work a lot. So I'm blessed, I think. If I wanted to slow down a little bit, though, it just makes me into a wuss. Oh, well. Oh, there you go. So, yeah, Tony, that's what's going on.

You don't have a why. What happens, folks, when you first approach this whole idea of we need to get control of our money. Our money's killing us. We need to be able to invest and save for retirement so that we can retire with dignity. We need to be able to invest and save for retirement so that we can retire with dignity. We need to be able to invest and save for our kids' college. We need to pay cash for stuff so that these banks don't own us.

As soon as you start seeing that, you start figuring out how to do it, and you forget sometimes to go back and say why you're doing it to the people around you. So you've got to spend some time with the people in your life that you love, talking about why we're doing this, why we're doing this, why we're doing this. And once they get your why, they'll be on board, as we say, and they'll be the biggest cheerleaders, and even more so, they'll actually help. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. The Equifax breach is being called

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Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Greg. How are you? Good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm calling in about a question as to whether to file bankruptcy. I'm 56 years old. I've been through, in the last

three and a half years, a very lengthy, costly divorce after a 35-year relationship, 31-year marriage, two beautiful children, but the attorney debt is in excess. I've actually paid them $32,000 in the past three and a half years, and I owe, right now,

just under $100,000. I'm not a celebrity, but it sounds like a celebrity divorce here. You owe $100,000 in legal bills? Yeah, just owed to the attorney because of interest. And here's why. I went to live with my mother when my ex filed for the fourth time in the last eight years during the recession. She filed, dropped, filed, dropped, paid the retainer out of our money, but she couldn't make up her mind whether she wanted to stay in the marriage or not.

And then the fourth time, September 2014, she filed, and that's the one I'm currently in. We're legally divorced as of December 2015 after a five-month trial. No alimony either way, decided before trial, no child support because they were emancipated above age 25. But yet she still took me to trial because her lawyer said because he lost his job or left his job in May of 2009 during the recession, my job was headed to China after a 26-year successful career. I made twice as much as she earned, and I was the saver. She was more of

the spender. But we were getting into a situation where love to each other when we didn't have much when we got married. But you get a Louis Vuitton, I love you. And you get an iPad, I love you. And that's not a marriage. That's materialized items. And so it dissolved, went dysfunctional. And we're divorced as of two years ago. But the settlement of assets is just occurring as I speak. They had to get a third-party accountant assigned by the court to give the money. I don't have boats or short homes or a complex. I have a consulting business, but it really didn't have anything. So what assets are there?

My huge IRA with my 401K rolled out. It's approximately valued at $650,000 now. Okay. And out of that, when they tally up all the numbers, she got the marital home, and we will roll. I haven't seen any proceeds from the marital home, although I'm supposed to get 50% credit. I will have to roll over a third of that $650,000, about $250,000. I got you. Are you working now? about 200,000 to 250,000. That's the speed. I got you.

Are you working now? So I'll yield 400,000. Are you working now? I am for six months. I was a caregiver for my mom during the same time. Are you working now? What do you make now? Yes, for six months.

For six months, part-time. It's insufficient income, but it qualifies me for low-income housing, and I'm waiting to hear today or tomorrow. What did did you used to do i did electronics uh fcc and regulatory approvals for an anti-shoplifting company for what did you what did you make oh i made at the end i started at 12,083 but i ended in in 2009 at almost 93,000 plus 10, but I ended in 2009 at almost $93,000 plus a $10,000 bonus a year. So why can't you make that again? Well, first of all... Instead of living in lower-income housing.

Well, the industry has changed. Brick-and-mortar security is going up on the Internet, so I went back to school in 2009 to 2012 and achieved an associate's in network management, and I'm currently's in network management. And I'm currently in my last year. If I rolled for September, I couldn't have rolled because my money was frozen. I was caring for my mother. Do you have any other assets other than the $400,000 401K?

On my side, no. Hers have all been calculated. Her small little 401Ks. No, I'm saying you're divorced, okay? I'm sorry that you went through this horrible thing. You're divorced. The net result is right now. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. The net result is that you have $400,000 in a 401k.

You're resetting your career and resetting your life after your heartbreak and after your financial ravaging. But right now you've got $400k in a $401K and a $100,000 legal bill. And credit card debt of $25,000 because that's what I was living off of right there with my mom. And so if you start making $93,000 again, you can repay that. Yeah, I don't think that's achievable right now because the industry has changed, and what I used to do is all the work.

If you're going into network security, it's very achievable. That's my new career. I know. I'm looking into the future, man. I'm not looking at the past. I know, but what I'm saying is I have 11 classes of about three years part-time at night to finish my bachelor's. Good. Good.

Finish it up. Let's get with it. I've got to fund that, and I'm doing part-time work, and I make part-time work as a contractor, as an engineering consultant. I'm making $15,000, and that's not after the withholding for Social Security and all. All right. Let me tell you what I'm hearing, okay? I'm hearing a guy whose heart really got pulled out of his chest and stomped on with a stiletto, okay?

Oh, yeah. And you're still trying to get your breath, even though the divorce was actually final two years ago, and finally we're getting a settlement on this. This has been an outlandish process for you. You've died three deaths during this time. And just in talking to you, your emotions are raw. You're hurting.

And I can feel it. And it's hard for you to look towards the future because you're wallowing in all the poison of the past. So, no, I wouldn't file bankruptcy today. I would call the attorney and just say, hey, I appreciate what you guys did for me. And it was a ridiculous process we all went through. I simply don't have $100,000 right now. If I can get this new career started in the next year or so, I should be making good money again,

and I'll call you and we'll get on a repayment plan. If they want to sue you, they may force you into bankruptcy court. But if you want to run to bankruptcy court, it's not going to help your broken heart. And you're not going to have you know you've actually got the money if you want to get out of your 401k uh when you hit 59 and a half um but i i you don't have to i mean you can file bankruptcy and not pay them but i think more of this is you've just you've just been kicked and kicked and kicked and kicked and you can't breathe and so if i if i'm in your shoes

if i was your best friend i just walk up beside you put my arm around you and say okay let's just breathe and you're not allowed to use the rearview mirror anymore if you only use the windshield because everything that's in the rearview mirror is ucky let's not even look in the rearview mirror it's all blood guts and body parts laying back there on the road. It's bad. Let's just look out the windshield. Where are we going from here? Where are we going from here? And if where we're going from here has no options and you're forced into bankruptcy,

I'm not going to be mad at you. But I don't think that's what's going on. I think your heart and your nerves and your emotions are just raw because you fought this for so long you just had the crap beat out of you man and so um i gotta tell you it's hard to heal emotionally when you go through stuff like that so if you're not plugged into a good church i'd highly recommend you do find you a good pastor find you some good people walk with you they'll love you and um you know they'll speak some life into you and say you've got a future. Because, you know, the last 10 years of your life sucks.

It just really does. And so I don't blame you for being where you are. But, you know, you've got to look out the windshield. Because you just machine gun me verbally with all that stuff. Because it's all so fresh and raw for you right now. Wendy is on the line wendy's in los angeles hi wendy how are you hi dave thank you for taking my call today sure what's up um so um i'm 45 years old and my husband and i own three properties here in southern california and two of these properties are rentals. And our goal is to continue paying down all three of these mortgages and eventually pay them off in 20 years.

Great. But then we want to be able to live on that monthly income, the rental income, and that would give us a tune of roughly $120,000 a year. What do you guys make a year now? $325,000. Awesome. And how much do you owe on the rentals? So, let's see.

We owe on one of the rentals, we owe $110,000. On another rental, we owe $675,000. And then we have a personal residence. And how much on your personal residence? We owe $575,000. And then we have a personal residence. And how much on your personal residence? We owe $530,000. Okay, cool. Because you make such good money, you ought to be able to work your plan. Let's get them paid off.

Well, my question is, because the properties are valued so highly right now, we're entertaining the property and then paying off our primary residence completely and then just building on our wealth. Well, you could do that. You could do that and then turn around and use the cash that's all freed up to start buying paid full rentals. You can do it either way. There's nothing wrong with either direction. Might do some of each.

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Hi, Tricia. How are you? I'mricia. How are you? I'm great. How are you, Dave? I am better than I deserve. Where do you live? We live in Jefferson, Maryland, outside of Frederick. Okay.

Very cool. Very cool. And you got your kids with you? Yes. This is Audrey. She'll be 17 tomorrow, and this is Aaron, 22. All right. Awesome.

Very cool. So, down here to do a debt-free scream in Tennessee. How much have you paid off? I paid off $252,000, sir. Whoa! How long did this take? 37 months. Okay.

There's a story here. And your range of income during this time? I make, with child support, about $235,000. Okay. Very cool. So you make good money. What do you do for a living? I'm a pharmacist.

Okay. Good. Good. And $252,000. What kind of do for a living? I'm a pharmacist. Okay. Good. Good. And $252,000. What kind of debt was this? It was my home, sir. You paid off your house? Yes.

I'm looking at weird people. I love it. Congratulations. Thank you. So well done. Thank you. Very, very cool. So tell me the story.

What happened 37 months ago and enabled you to do this? I'm not sure you did all this out of your income, so tell me how you did it. Okay, so in 2010, I unfortunately went through a divorce, and my husband moved overseas. And so during that time, we were without any income at all from him for about six months, and I was only working part-time, so it was a really scary time. We unfortunately had to move and rent a home for a while. And when things kind of got more settled and things settled down as far as him requiring to pay for child support, which is actually more than my income.

So that's why I was able to have so much money to put towards a home. And we got into our home in 2014. I just never wanted to have that feeling again of potentially not having a home. So you were used to living on nothing, so you did cash flow this. You just lived on nothing. Yeah, we did. And you paid off this house in three freaking years.

Yes. Absolutely amazing. I mean, you've been on beans and rice. We still lived. I'm just not a material person. I think we were down to two bowls at one time because all the bowls kept breaking. And I'm like, we're not buying new dishes until we get this house paid off. If somebody's going to share a bowl, we'll have to wait, do dinner, and shifts.

Yeah, you really did. I mean, to make that work, to make these numbers work, you had to do that. You did this very, very quickly. But you really had that I'm never going to be here again moment and it was deep in your soul yes yes i wanted the security for my kids and i wanted to be a good steward of my money that i was being given yeah how's it feel to not have a payment in the world it feels wonderful and the ability to give back to others and the opportunities i've had just in the last few months to do that has been really neat yeah yeah you're in a position to do that for sure

not a payment in the world making a couple hundred grand life is pretty. Yeah, you're in a position to do that for sure. Not a payment in the world, making a couple hundred grand. Life is pretty good. And now you're a full-time pharmacist, so when the child support stops again because everybody's grown and leaves, then you're still going to be making great money. Exactly, exactly. Well done. Good for you. I do want to say one thing real quick, is that God was so faithful during all of this,

even though, you know, even in those bad times, there were people that walked beside us. I had a sister and my cousin, who happens to be my best friend, that was on the phone with us through all that time, you know, for hours at a time. And it was just, you know, the faithfulness of God, I just cannot emphasize enough. Well, and it shows up in kind people that are there with a shoulder uh for you to lean on and uh emotionally because you you must have been married a while 27 years 27 years wow yeah so that's a real heartbreak to go through but somehow you managed to turn and look forward instead of looking backwards you know just a few minutes ago i'm talking to the gentleman who's still

everything's in his rearview mirror. He's just concentrating on that right now. But you've gone the other direction. You're the opposite of that in that you're looking forward. You've got a game plan, you know, and you healed from that somehow pretty quickly. Congratulations. Thank you. And so did these two.

They've been wonderful kids through this all. I bet. Well, they're all the way down here in Tennessee doing a debt-free scream with you. Yeah, he's missed a lot of soccer. He's been upset. We know they're top-notch. Very cool. What advice do you give to somebody that's gone through a heartbreak

like that and wants to get out of debt? How do they do it? Well, I did take Finance for Peace University, which was really beneficial. I'm a joiner. I'm very extroverted, so I did divorce care. I just got help in any way I'm very extroverted. So I did divorce care. I just got help in any way I could just to kind of heal and work through this. Which one of those things was the most helpful?

Not for natural peace. I mean on the divorce side. Probably for me. I did even celebrate recovery because I realized through all this I was probably a pretty big codependent. But I would say divorce care. It kind of like flipped the switch for me. And it was at a point where things got better. I was able to breathe again when I went through that program.

Yeah, you start thinking maybe I'm not crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And then Financial Peace University gives you the tools to work on the money stuff, right? Oh, exactly. Yeah, very cool. Well, good for you. Very well done.

What was the hardest part of this process for you all? I would say just even though it's only 37 years, or 37 months, excuse me, there were times when it just seemed like it wasn't going down fast enough. You know, I just wanted it to be over. So I think just the longevity of it and sometimes having to say no to things that all three of us wanted. Yeah, but when you turn the corner and you saw that last ten or twenty thousand dollars laying there that had to be a you can see the tape at the end of the race you're going to break through you're going to

finish the race yes that had to feel great it was and it is congratulations thank you very proud of you congratulations very well done we've got a copy of Chris Hogan's Retire Inspired book for you. That is the next chapter in your story that you become a millionaire now, and you're well on your way. What's this house worth? About $350 to $400, I would guess. Yeah, you're well on your way then. Good for you. Very cool.

And outrageously generous as you go along, which you said you're already doing that kind of thing now that you're free. So very, very well done. All right, it's Erin and Audrey and Tricia. $252,000 paid off. That's her house. She's 100% debt-free in 37 months. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. We're debt free! Wow! Love it, love it, love it! Very well done. Man, you're fabulous. That is awesome. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. John is with us in Pensacola. Hi, John. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. How are you? Better than I deserve.

What's up? Well, I'm trying to make a decision about retirement and paying off my house and have a certain amount in retirement funds and just looking for some advice. Cool. What do you owe on the house? $228. And how much is in your nest egg in retirement? Well, it's in a bunch of different accounts, but altogether it's about $685.

Okay. All right. Well, the way to ask you, how old are you? 65. You got any other form ask you, how old are you? 65. You got any other form of income other than this nest egg? Yeah, my employment. Okay. You're still working then.

Okay. Right, right. And what do you make now? $120,000. Okay. That's helpful. Okay. Well, one thing's for sure.

We know when you get to retirement, actual not working anymore, you want to have the house paid off. Agreed? That's what I'm thinking. Yeah, for sure. For sure you don't want to go into retirement with a mortgage. What's the house worth? It's worth about $550.

Is it where you want to live? Yeah, yeah. We pretty much decided that's where we want to live. Okay. Then another way to ask the question is to say, if I had a paid-for house instead of a mortgage, and I only had $460,000 in my 401k accounts, my retirement accounts, would I go borrow $228,000 on my house that's paid for so that instead of $460,000

I had $685,000? Right. You see what I'm doing? Kind of looking at it backwards. I think if you were sitting there with a half a million dollars in your retirement accounts at $65,000 making $100,000 a year and your home was paid for, I don't think you'd borrow $200,000 on your home to put into retirement, would you? No.

Okay. Then to pay it off is just doing the opposite of that, isn't it? So I'm going to pay it off. That's what you would do, pay it off? Yep. Definitely would. So I've got like one account that's got $52,000. I could take it out.

I'd have to pay tax. And I have a couple of Roths, you know, 31 and 6 and that. Yeah, I would just sit down with your advisor and work through the different accounts and figure out which ones are going to be the most tax-friendly for you to, you know, pay it off with so that we get hit the least and then it can continue to grow. That's the plan. But yeah, I'd definitely pay off the house.

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We're glad you're here. This is the Dave Ramsey Show, a show about you. Adasha is with us in Las Vegas. Hey, Adasha, how are you? Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, Dave, I've been listening to you for a very long time. Like almost every day I listen to you on YouTube while I'm at work with my headset. So just so you know, daily I listen to you and I pretty much have lots of questions, but this is the main question that I probably need help on. It's kind of like a dispute between me and my husband. I basically want a second job. My first job is housekeeping and it's very strenuous work. So my second job will have to be like little to no work so I was thinking about like maybe just something small like a gas station job but my husband doesn't want me to do that type of job because um we live in a bad neighborhood and he doesn't want to lose his life basically we're only making right now $42,000 a year. I'm bringing in $34,000.

He's bringing in roughly around $6,000 to $8,000. And he just started a new job. So this is his second week training on his new job, and he'll be working with the school district making like $22,000. So within the next year, we'll be up to $56,000, but I just feel like I need to put more into the pot because we're $50,000 in debt, and I feel like it needs to go away as soon as possible. So I need help, Dave.

I really do. He's right. I wouldn't put myself in jeopardy for the few dollars that you would make sitting in a market. But working an extra job is not a bad idea. I just think we need a different one. Yes, sir. And I think you narrowed it down to one possible choice, and it's a bad choice. So if it's that or nothing, do nothing.

But I don't think that's the actual equation. I think there's some other things you can do. Now, yeah, cleaning houses is hard work, but, you know, getting out of debt is hard work. Work is called hard work. So, you know, it is strenuous, yes, but you're young, both of you are young, and you could do all kinds of different things to create income. It doesn't have to be that you put yourself in a situation where your safety is in question. But I wouldn't put my safety in question for minimum wage.

No, thank you. And I agree with him on that. But is there something else you can do? Yes. I just don't know what it is today. But I think you guys together need to have a goal together of using his new income, your all's new good household income, plus any extra job money that the two of you can generate to get out of debt.

And, yeah, I would create some extra income, but I just wouldn't do it there. Charles is with us in Portland, Oregon. Hey, Charles, how are you? Hey, Dave, wonderful talking with you. You too. Hey, I just graduated seminary. My wife and I have been at it since, well, we've been on the Dave Ramsey plan since August of 2017. And praise God, we've been able to kill 17,000 debt worth of credit card and personal loans.

Good for you. And we actually cash flowed the last semester, so you'll be happy to hear that. That's awesome. Well done. Yeah. The problem is now I have $178,000 in debt, and I'm not a doctor or lawyer, and neither is my wife. $178,000 for seminary?

Seminary, flight school, my undergrad, and her undergrad. Flight school. And a lot of bad decisions along the way. Okay. So what is your career path and what is her career path? What are you guys going to be making? Right now my wife's a social worker. That's what she went to school for. She's making $42,000 and having just graduated in April I was doing construction and side jobs. That's what kind of got us out of that $17,000,

because she was making ends meet and my money was going towards debt. So I'm called to be a pastor. We're hoping in two years to be out of debt. I know it sounds crazy, but we believe it's possible through your plan and through God. So we want to plant churches internationally, and everything we want to do, the debt's standing in our way, so we're sick of it. We have such a big calling on our lives that we know God wants to take us there, but what I'm wondering is do I take a pastor gig for the next couple years that makes $30K

and do a ton of side jobs, or do I do ministry for the next couple of years as a side gig? Whichever one makes the most money. Because at this stage of the game, what you've discovered is the very real truth that the borrower is slave to the lender. You don't have choices. Yes. Your choices were given up when you signed the papers for $178,000 in student loan debt. So what you guys have got to do in order to be able to do your calling at some point into the future,

you guys have got to create as much possible income as you can, both of you. So your callings are held back by this. So let's do anything to be able to get towards the calling, and that is even if you do nothing in the calling right now either one of you and you can make three times more money then go do that for a short period of time okay you know three or four years to clean up this mess you just got to have a good size shovel because you got a big hole right and we feel responsible a hundred percent good all the side jobs we've been we've been killing it uh working hard my

my wife's fully on board. I've read three of your books, so we're pumped up, man. We're just sick of the debt. I'm proud of you. I mean, I think you've got the bull by the horns. It's just a big old bull. Right. You know, you're getting after it.

You've got the right attitude. And so, you know, if you can work construction and make twice as much and, you know, just your ministry stuff is side job or volunteer or whatever, and that keeps that portion of your calling tickled while you knock this out, then go do that. That's okay. And that's just the price you're paying for the decisions in the past. It's reaping what you've sown.

And so, but the good news is it's not a 10-year problem. I mean, it's a 3-, 4-, 5-year problem depending on how much you guys can make. So anywhere from 3 to 5 years from now, you're debt-free depending on how much income you can generate between the two of you, doing anything and everything that's legal and moral. And the faster you get this thing out of your life, the faster you can lean back and go, okay, God, what do you want to do now? Let's play. And it's okay to ask him for help, by the way, because you're driving your life right straight into his calling of your calling on you.

So, God, help me do this. Show me how to make money. Show me where I can make some money. God, lead me into good jobs that pay very, very well to clean up this mess. It's interesting when you repent, turn away from bad decisions. That's what repent means. You know that. It's interesting how God blesses the new direction.

Sometimes you get out twice as fast as you got in, but it still took you five, six years to make the mess, so it may take you three or four years to get out, that kind of thing. Hannah's with us in Los Angeles. Hey, Hannah, how can I help right quick before I run out of time? I hit Brian instead of Hannah. I've messed up everything now. I'm just going to go to this email.

Kaylee is on Twitter and says, Dave, do you need umbrella insurance if you don't have any assets yet? No. Umbrella insurance is once you start to build some wealth. If you've got a half million dollars or you've got a million dollars in assets, something like that, you start to be a target and you pick up an umbrella policy, which is an inexpensive additional liability policy that sits on top of your homeowners, your car insurance, and takes you where you want to go. And, you know, that's the direction to go.

But no, you do not need an umbrella policy. But a million-dollar umbrella policy, for those of you that are starting to build some assets, only $200, $300, depending on where you live, something like that. It's very inexpensive. It's one of the better buys in all of the insurance world, for that matter. They get an extra million dollars in liability coverage. If you're starting to have some assets that somebody could sue you and take away, for instance, if you were in a bad car wreck or if someone got hurt on your property or something like that where you could end up having a real problem financially.

And that liability umbrella is an easy thing to get and add on when you do that. But you don't need to do that until you have assets. I wouldn't spend the money to have extra liability insurance when there's nothing for somebody to get. You're not exactly a target at that point. If you want to learn more about that or just getting a better deal on your car and homeowner's insurance,

just click ELP for insurance at DaveRamsey.com and they'll help you out. Those great brokers will shop around and get you the best possible deal out there and cause it to work for you. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly Daniel, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show.

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