The Ramsey Show - App - Debt Always Comes With Strings Attached

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fair Wins Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Your host, the phone number is AAA 8255. 25-2-25. The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, number one, best-selling author, and my daughter is my co-host today.

David is in New Orleans. Hi, David. How are you? I'm good. How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I have about $100,000 to $110,000 extra that I just don't know how to invest. I'm at the moment. I'm not sure whether put it towards my house. to pay off mortgage or to invest in like a money market fund or like a high-yield savings account, I'm not sure what to do with it. Good for you. Where'd you get it?

Just saving. My wife and I are very, very frugal. Well, way to go, man. Congratulations. So we teach a process to become wealthy. We have proven that it's the shortest path to wealth called the Baby Steps. Have you ever heard of that? Yes.

Okay. So Baby Step 1, save $1,000. you've done that. Two has become debt-free but the house. I suspect you've done that. No, we still have the mortgage. I said except the house. Except the house. Oh, yes, yes, yes. You're debt-free except the house? Yes, sir. Okay. Then baby step three is a fully funded emergency fund, which is three to six months of expenses for rainy days. Do you have that separate from this 110 or is it included in the 110? Yes, that is separate from that. Okay, how much is in that fund? I would say between, I mean, we have 20,000 in the savings, but we have extra that we can put towards that of up to 80,000, I would say up to about 50,000.

Okay, so you have 50 plus 110 plus 20? No, I have more than that. In total, we have that's included in the money market funds and everything besides the stocks that we have, which is 450,000, that we don't really touch. we have totaled 217 through all our accounts. Okay, so is the stock in a retirement account? No, it's in like dividends. So it fluctuates, but we have a guy that's that monitors all of that and deals with all of that.

And so it started off at $300,000 and now it's at $450,000. How old are you? I am 29, my wife is 30. What kind of income do you all have household income? About $150. Well, you have done an amazingly good job. Congratulations. David, how much is left on the mortgage?

230, you said? 2.32. So I would write a check today from your cash that's laying around non-emergency fund and a little bit of the stock if you had to and pay the house off today. The reason why we're not sure about if that's the right decision. You called and asked me what you should do. We're not sure if this isn't our forever home. I don't care.

and that we will probably move in 10 to 15 years so we don't is so that means you need to stay in debt well that's dumb yeah I mean no when you sell the house when you sell the house and move they're going to give you a check at the closing you're not losing the money okay so here's the thing this is coming from two things number one we know that families that pay off their homes, especially families like you guys. You guys are like super savers. You're amazing what you've done, man. Okay?

So all I'm doing is fine-tuning one little thing, okay? When we did a study of 10,167 millionaires, the typical model of the typical millionaire that we found was they had a million to $2 million net worth and they had, you know, $7,800,900,000 in their 401k's retirements and stock investments. and they had a paid-for home that was six or seven or $800,000. And the paid-for-home, here's what it does, it gets rid of the cash drain on your income. You're going to be able to save the house payment. You know how much that house payment, how quick that one house payment's going to be $1,000 in a mutual fund?

Oh, my God, son, so fast. It's going to blow you away. How quick that one move turns into a million dollars. And you don't have a house payment. And when you walk out in the backyard and you take your shoes off, the grass feels different. you don't even understand that you're setting down 300 pounds of weight that you've been carrying around and when you set it down you're going to breathe deeper like cool mountain air into your lungs so that's where i'm going to tell you to go david what what causes you to be hesitant about it

when you were like well well well and you were backing up what's the what's in your mind what are you thinking well because it's not our forever home um we you know we are thinking we're likely going to move in about okay but you do understand yeah yeah yeah but do you do understand understand that you still have the money it's just in equity it's in the house versus cash in the bank so you so to his point earlier you get it back out so that's not really an argument so did you do you have another one though are you wanting to keep these stocks well yeah so yeah we're definitely gonna keep this like as in we're keeping the you know whatever amount that we have in stocks left or keep it in there for long term because it's been growing very well um in there it's just

We just weren't sure if that makes the most sense because, of course, we talked to the financial advisors at, you know, they're also not naive. Yeah, they won't tell you to cash that out. What's the best for the bank as well? I know that. So that's what I'm calling into the show. I want to get the person of advice that's in our best interest, not necessarily the best thing. The thing that I didn't understand when I first started doing this, David, and you're a wonderful saver, so you're a math nerd like me. I thought this was all a math equation.

It's also a psychological, spiritual, emotional, relational equation. When you don't have a house payment, it changes stuff you don't even know was stopped up. It's weird, how it unleashes you, your creativity, just you and your spouse walk in. My wife and I went for a ride in a little, I've got a 1960 convertible. We went for a riotant last night. We pulled back up front of the house, and we both said, that's a good house. and it wasn't like a bragging thing it wasn't like flex thing it was just me and her two old people in the old car i mean come on you know i mean but we're just looking at the house

going and you wouldn't have felt that if there was a mortgage is what you're saying like there's a well i mean it because you don't own it yeah yeah it changes you might have said that it's a good house but you would have said it of a different even a tone yeah even changes your tone of voice i mean it's hard to grasp all of this stuff until you actually do it here Here's my challenge for you. Pay off the house. And if you hate being debt-free, you can go get you another mortgage. And I've never had any...

It's the only piece of advice we give on this show that I've never had anybody call and give me a hate mail for after they do it. Now, all these people that have theories give me a hate mail, but they're broke people with theories. I don't care about their hate mail. That doesn't... We burn that. That's good kindling.

But we really don't get... I mean, I've been doing this for almost 40 years, y'all. The number of people that call me back and said, Dave, you told me to pay off my house, I hate you, you're awful, is zero. Zero. And it's the one debt no one ever goes back into. Like, we will talk to people on the show. Like, we were debt free, but now we have $15,000 a credit card debt.

I'm like, why did y'all do that? Or we were debt free, but we now have a car loan. Why do you know, like, we'll get those every now and then. Yeah. But we've never. Hardly ever. Once you get the mortgage gone, you're like, oh, my. I just was so stressed when we didn't have a mortgage payment.

So I was like, we got to go back and get one. Let's just go back and borrow on the house so we can invest and do all of this. I'd rather have that mortgage. I can't stand being dead free. It's killing me. Nobody ever says that, guys. And David, yeah, do it. You're 29.

Give it a try. If we're wrong, you can go back in debt. Christina is in South Carolina. Hi, Christina. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Good. How can we help?

So my husband and I've been having this real issue lately. He believes that he can spend the money any way he wants because he earns it because he works for it. And because I stay at home, I can't spend it because the luxuries of being at home with our son, like the power and the water, are my little luxury that I get. So he can go spend it on snacks. He can go spend it on drinks. He can do whatever he wants with it, but I'm not allowed to do the same. How old is this little boy? He is 25.

How long have you guys been married? We've been married for every year. How many kids do you all have? We have one. Okay. It's a very dysfunctional marriage, Christina. Yes, I have been told that I should just let him deal with the kind. finances because no whoever told you that's as dysfunctional as he is who told you that his mother

no that was him he said that oh he told you that okay I bet he did that I bet he did a little twerp um oh my gosh so um you're you're dealing with a child that's the problem And I'll allow me, I try to save money where I can. Honey, honey, that's not the point. Okay. Let me back up and tell you the way this should be, and then we can put that against where it is, okay? The way it should be is when you are married, regardless of where the income comes from, we have an income. We both have a vote on where every one of those dollars goes.

My wife has not worked outside the home in about 40 years. She has an incredible income because we have an incredible income, because we have an incredible income, okay? And she gets to decide with me what we will do with our income. Are you hearing these words clearly? none of that's happening here just because I earn the income at Ramsey and with the things I do in my life and she doesn't have an earned income personally does not invalidate her power or her right to a vote inside the household she has the same exact rights as I do not only morally and spiritually but legally she does and if he thinks he's in control of his income let me teach him what a divorce attorney will teach him. He's not in control of his income. They're going to take a big old chunk of it and give it to you and the kid to take care of the kid. So he really does not have as much power as he thinks he has in the law, much less morally, and he's relationally bankrupt. You treat your wife this way,

you won't have a wife long. Because, honey, you may put up with this for a while, but you're going to wake up in a few years and go, I'm done with you being a jerk. And treating me like a second class citizen. I'd like him to stay home with a kid. Let me tell you, Christina, it's much easier being in a workplace with a bunch of adults than being home all day. It's exhausting. It's absolutely exhausting. You work harder than he does. I can't.

I mean, I think that he does. He's a hard worker. Oh, well, crap. That's not what I'm saying. Christina, it's not that. I'm not saying that. Call me a river. I'm just saying the value you bring to the household is as important, if not arguably, maybe more important. You're

raising human beings in this household. full-time. And so the fact that financially, from a numbers perspective, he has and wants full control and treating you like a second-class citizen is not okay. This is not okay. You have a dysfunctional marriage, honey. You guys, I really think this guy needs more than I can give him on this call. If I had him on the call, I could box his ears, but it wouldn't last, okay? But what you guys desperately need is to get involved in a good, strong local church. A church that is healthy. A healthy church. That isn't supporting his ridiculous idea.

I mean, you get some. But, I mean, you get a church that lovingly will teach you exactly what we taught you and get some men in his life to teach this little boy how to be a man. Because masculinity that's true and not toxic is service-oriented. He serves his wife. He serves his kid. And that's what he should be doing. And he's doing the opposite of that.

You guys desperately need marriage counseling, honey. Desperately. We can't fix him on this call. You're too messed up. this is just a mess and but what I do want to do for you is to confirm that you're not the crazy one okay you're the feelings that you're having that this is improper are accurate feelings they're accurate observations logical observations and these are two people sitting completely outside of there Rachel's marriage does not run this way my marriage does not run this way and

both of them have a lot more zero therapist marriage therapist would say it's not run that way That is a complete level of control and can start to be in the sense that you don't even have the ability to access the money, which then becomes another huge problem. And so it's it's not okay, Christina. It's not okay. And I didn't like this guy earns a lot of money either. He's a big deal on nothing. So this just, yeah, there's so much immaturity here. Sounds like about a 14-year-old boy.

Well, and the reason to press into this, Christina, and why it's worth the fight is not only from the financial perspective, getting that cleaned up, but also that mindset doesn't just stay in the money lane of your marriage. That mindset and what he believes about you and your value and what you're capable of starts to bleed into every other part. And so it's not just a one-off thing. This is his character and who he is and how he views you. And that's the problem I have. If your baby is a daughter, you're teaching her how women are supposed to be treated by accepting this treatment. Don't do that to her. That's not fair. If your baby is a son, you're teaching him how he's supposed to treat women by accepting the way that you're being treated. Don't do that. That's not fair. So you guys are horrible parents because you're modeling out a dysfunctional thing before this brand new baby right now.

and so you've got to work on this kiddo you've got to go get some help and you've got to demand it and we're going to go get some help i'm going whether you're going or not and if you don't go then i may go because i'm not going to put up with this and that that's that's where you're going to end up and i will tell you this i've coached families on money for 30 or 40 years now and i i you know i don't like stereotypes much but i see this more often with ladies than I do men like 98% of the time this is a lady they will put up with stuff for so long and then I don't know what it is in the female psyche but once that switch flips once you're done there'll be nothing he can do to get you back because you will be done guys will come back

around but a lady that's just fed up fed up fed up and finally switch flips they are done and you can't reel them back in I've tried to send them to marriage counseling I begged them to give them another chance and everything else and they're like nope i've had it with this guy i'm done and you can't get them back and that's going to happen to you kiddo it's going to build up build up build up and the switch is going to flip and this whole thing's going to be over and you sound like sweet and naive and you are right now but it'll get you'll get over it over it over time and you'll get tired of the abuse so you guys need to desperately get some help for your dysfunctional screwed up marriage because your husband's view is dysfunctional and screwed up.

I hope I wasn't unclear. I hope it's all here. And we have a couple that's on their honeymoon in the lobby. So there's your marriage advice to them. Oh, God. Oh, God. Oh, God. No, no.

I don't think they're that way. I know, I know. I can already tell they're not that way. You could tell just taking one picture with them. Well, what it is, though, is, and we say it on the show all the time, majority of relational calls that we get is rarely, well, rarely about the money. So she calls in and says, well, he says, I can't have any say and that my, what, did she say her privilege was electricity and food or what?

That was her luxury. Oh, my gosh. So like, but I need money is how it's presented, but it's like, no, dear God, do you need a new marriage? Like, it's a marriage issue. So whenever those things start bubbling up majority of the time with couples, and I would say in our marriage, probably with you and mom too, like when there's a money thing that flares up, usually a deeper root of thing is something is happening. Money problems are not the problem. They're the symptom. And that's the case here, too. There's a power struggle

going on here, and you've been losing the power struggle. If you're tired of living paychecks to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. There's new trainings every week this month, and they're all hosted by one the Ramsey personalities, Rachel Cruz or George Camel or Jade Warshaw will be in there helping

you out. I'm going to show you how to stick to a budget and find thousands of dollars worth of a margin using every dollar so you not only get out of debt, but you start building wealth. And you can ask any question during the live Q&A. A lot easier to get a question in there than it is on the show, hard to get on there. Sorry for that, but there's only four lines. We're going to get so many people, and it's a lot of busy signals when you call here.

But you can get in there. Sign up for free at ramsysolutions.com slash webinar. every dollar trainings with the Ramsey personalities. Dillan's in San Francisco. Hi, Dylan. How are you? I'm doing great. I'm excited to be on the show.

Thank you, sir. So my question is, my wife and I have a bunch of debt, about $2.3 million worth of debt, but it's all really low interest rate debt. And I'm wondering if we should be trying to pay it off as quickly as possible. or since we can make more in a high-yield savings or in the market, should we sort of take our time and paying off this debt? What is it owed on? So $2 million on the primary residence at 2.4% on a 30-year fixed.

We have a rental residence, which has about a quarter million at 3%. 80,000 student loans at 1.6%. And then a car loan of about 4%. $40,000 at 4%. And what's your household income? About $1.5 million, but that's new. It's gone up a lot. Way to go, man.

It's gone up a lot. You're doing wonderful. What do you do for a living? I'm a lawyer, as is my wife. Okay. Good. Well, here's the thing. Well, real quick, Dylan, do you love it?

Do you love having $2.5 million? Like, are you good? I'm okay with it So our net worth is like 5.2 So I feel like it's manageable I want to have no debt But part of me feels like it's kind of backwards To pay down 2 and a half percent debt

When you could earn 4% in the savings account Okay, all right It's a good question, valid question All right, so Here's the thing The thing that we forget that no one talks about and no one teaches is debt equals more equals risk more debt equals more risk huge amounts of debt equals

huge amounts of risk huge amounts of debt as a percentage of your net worth equals huge amounts of risk let me illustrate okay you said you had a five million dollar net worth what if you had a five and a half million dollars worth of debt at 1%. You would see, you would feel that risk instantly because your net worth is not enough to cover. You have negative net worth. You follow me? Right. And so even though the interest rate was great, you felt the risk increase when I just gave you the example, didn't you? I did. That would stress me out. Yeah. And so that's, that's, that's illustrates accurately that debt equals risk because you can literally feel it in your physical

body and you didn't even do it you just talked about it and your body start going uh you know and so that that that's your risk meter is measuring that you're feeling that so what is left out of your calculation of i can borrow this money at 2% and i can invest it at 4 i'm making a 2% spread or 2 and a 1⁄2% spread or whatever it is what's left out of that is you've not calculated mathematically for the risk okay and there is actually formulas to do that in graduate-level finance, if you're comparing a risky mutual fund with a not-so-risky mutual fund, we measure the volatility of the fund with a statistical measure of the height and distance to the valley of the – do you think the wavy line that represents the returns,

you know what I'm talking about? If it's a real tall wavy line and a real steep wavy line, that's a risky one. you know what I'm saying, versus a real smooth one would not be risky. The measure of that mathematically is called a beta in statistics. And you can actually use a beta to adjust the high risk versus the low risk mutual fund and compare them apples to apples. The reason I'm bringing all that up is there's actually a thing until you talk about debt and nobody does it with debt except me.

And we started doing it with that a long time ago to say more debt equals more risk. And so you would divide your supposed spread out by the extra risk you're taking using a thing called a beta, and you would see that there's actually no perceived value after adjusted for risk. And so you're kidding yourself, mathematically, is the point. You're not really making the spread because the math formula that you're using is naive. It left out the risk. So you're not being a simpleton at all when you pay off the debt. On the contrary, you're very sophisticated when you choose to pay off the debt,

making this wonderful income you guys have just found yourself in and you're extremely successful lawyers thank you i'm so glad for you i'm happy for you i want you to win so the other thing you ask yourself is uh if you extrapolate these things out way into the future where do you want to be um you're how old 29 maybe i'm 48 48 48 okay okay okay well so when you're When you're 68, when you're 68, do you want a $50 million net worth with a $25 million debt load? All I want is $10 million. I mean, I don't want to extrapolate this out. I don't want to 10x this if I'm you.

And if you don't stop it, you're going to 10x it. And the only reason you would stop it is you decided it's not good. I decided I want to be free I decided I even though there's a little I might make a little money but adjusted for risk I'm not really over the scope of time making a ton of money and it's not worth it I can choose pick and choose my cases differently I can grow my law career even more exponentially if I have zero things riding around on my shoulder when I'm making these choices and so I'm going to encourage you to work toward I don't think it's an emergency I don't think you're bankrupt I don't think you're stupid. I don't think any of that. But it's, it's almost a philosophical discussion

in a sense that we're having. It is a math discussion, and the math I pointed out is wrong, but it's not going to cause you harm. You can out earn this level of mistake. It's not that big a deal. But I wouldn't set out to say, as my net worth grows, I'm going to grow my debt. And if I'm not willing to grow my debt as my net worth grows, then must be because I don't think the debt's good. And so since I don't want a 10x it, why would I keep it? Anything that's great, I want a 10x. Anything that's not, I'd love for you to 10x your income. I don't see anything wrong with that.

That'd be cool. I wouldn't call you out. Wouldn't say you're doing something wrong to do that. And so, yeah, that, that helps me. But you are hanging out with some very sophisticated people who are not very sophisticated with their mathematics if they're making you feel like a simpleton for paying off your debt. Because I just walked you through a fairly sophisticated formula that you probably never heard

before, I suspect. I told it to a bunch of MBAs and a college thing the other day, and they looked at me like I had invented fire. And so, but the, so that, it's, it's, that's how it works. I would pay it off. But I wouldn't be in an, I wouldn't be breaking my back to pay it off. You make a million and a half dollars have a car payment, it's ludicrous. It's ludicrous.

Yeah, especially the consumer stuff. I get that done. crazy. I get rid of that. That stupid student loan and that car payment. I pay that off in about the next two months. But we could make the argument about the rental house and the house a little bit more cogently. But you'd still lose the argument. Counselor. I'm so proud of you, man. You're just killing it. I'm just so happy for you that you're making all that money. Because you work so hard to get there. Well, on the other part, and we talked about this in an earlier call, but the humanity of money, it is not just about the math. There is a

level of peace and security and autonomy that you get when you just own everything. I mean, it is. Like, there's just something there. And so that element will not be in a formula or, you know, but it will be at night when you go to sleep and everything's owned. And there's just a level of peace. And there's not really a price on that. Like, there's something there that's very real.

And you can outchase and out earn the interest rates here and there, whatever. That can be the game you play. But as Dr. John Deloney says, solve for peace. have peace in your life. We live too much of a stressful life. You have a stressful job, Dylan. You know, just eliminate some stress. Feel free, have autonomy over your life and money in those choices.

Yep. Mike's in California. Hey, Mike, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Love it.

I just have a quick question. to cut to the chase, I had to take out a loan that I didn't want to take out because of some damage to a home I just purchased. I have, we're currently in a lawsuit to get that money back. So do I pay it off, Gazelle intense the Ramsey way, or do I, since I stand to make this money back, do I use my margin to not miss out on compound growth? No, you pay it off as quick as you can, because when you get the money, later you'll have the money later but until then you'll have the debt whether you win the lawsuit or

not yeah so we need to get rid of the debt and they're independent of each other and having the debt doesn't make you have a stronger case for the lawsuit the lawsuit will be answered on its merits only heard so yeah i'd be i'd be done with it i'd be done with that debt as fast as i possibly could i'm sorry you're going through that though that's a really uh there's nothing worse than a home being broken except a home being broken and a lawsuit these are two of the worst things you can go through it's just awful I'm so sorry wow wow Josh is in Illinois hey Josh what's up hey how's it going better than I deserve how can we help all right so I had a quick question um so I live with my two younger brothers and one of them works full time and he you know

fully does his part and another one works just barely enough to just barely cover his part of bills how old are these people so the one that's barely working is 20 and the one that is working is 23 and you're how old 25 okay so you have one lame roommate one good roommate both of which happen to be brothers yes my brothers unfortunately all right so I am currently working on paying off the last bit of debt that I have and I was considering moving out at the beginning of next year but I have this like weird things of like guilt if they're going to be able to survive because the one brother would probably end up still staying with the younger brother and the younger brother I don't know if he's going to be able

to drag his weight so I feel like I kind of have to stay and I was also thinking of staying in new ways because I'm still working on paying off a car that I purchased a couple years ago. What's the motivation to move out just because of the financial craziness? Partially, but also I have a girlfriend of two and a half years, and sometime with the next two years I want to, with the next year or two, I want to propose and get married and then, you know, of course, little bit there. Okay. Where would you, would you just go rent somewhere else? Is that what you were thinking? In the meantime? Yeah, most likely.

Do you think you can find something cheaper? Cheaper? I doubt it. Okay. What do you make? I make $57,000 a year. Okay. Okay.

You make the decisions and you give them enough notice and you make the decisions based on what is the right thing to do. Propping up someone who will not work is not ever the right thing to do. That's enabling misbehavior. Okay. That's what I was saying. And so, you know, you can love someone who misbehaves, but you don't have to love their misbehavior, okay?

You can love your little brother, but you don't have to love his laziness, right? And so I would just tell them, hey, guys, this worked for a while. We were three young guys coming out of the house. We did it together. It worked for a while. And I'm ready, because of this dating relationship, I'm going to start talking about moving out and I'm giving you like four, five months of notice here that that's what's going to happen.

And so you guys need to start making plans to be able to move somewhere else or to make up the difference with me being gone or to find another roommate that replace me or whatever it is y'all want to do. But then what they choose to do with that knowledge is on them, not you. So that removes all guilt. Okay. All I can do is present to someone what the situation is. How they react to it is their decision. Now, Josh, there's not a contract that you guys signed that you'd be breaking in any way, right? No, all these ends in, I believe, the beginning of February, so.

Okay. Is that when you would move out then? Yeah. Okay. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. I would tell your brothers, I'd tell your brothers over dinner, and then I would send an email to the landlord and copy your brothers that I'm making plans. to leave in February, my brothers will let you know what their plans are, but I will not be here after the lease expires. I want to let everybody know that and give everybody plenty of notice. The landlord knows what's going on. But that also gives your brothers a little shock to the system. It's like, this is really happening.

Yeah, and talk to them in person first. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't send an email. That's why I said to have dinner with them. Have dinner with them and tell them what's going on. Okay. He checked their Gmail. And they're like, where's Josh going?

Josh, don't make this about them. This is just what you're doing. Yeah. This is what I'm doing. I just want to let you know what I'm doing. I love you guys, and it was fun for a while, and now I'm going to go do this. And, you know, that's, it's not, it's not a, it's not you, it's me. And so, you know, right?

So when it comes to, you know, making this about me, I was considering staying with them because I currently have about $23,000 in that. It's a car loan. Well, sell it. See, I've looked into that, and I got it back in 2022 and stuff of super expenses. Kelly Blue Book puts you at, at most, I'm thinking, maybe $9,300. Okay, well, you're pretty stuck. You probably need some extra jobs out.

I'd work my tail off and get some extra jobs. Yeah, yeah, just have at it and tear into that thing. But I don't think that's a reason to stay. I think you can pay off that car or get rid of the car problem, whatever is you do with it, whether you're there or not. Yeah, but I also heard him say. The little brother is paying. He's barely making the bills, is what he said, but he's doing it. So if it's a situation where you have cheap rent and it's not, like, affecting the, I don't know.

I don't know if there's, like, a reason to get out. Now, if he stops paying and then you have to pick up his slack, then that's, that's one issue. That's what's happening. We don't exit if everybody's bills are being paid. He's not, that's, he's, he's, he's, it's time to go, man. It's time to go. Time to go. open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five you got to be real careful with um

the here's the thing i've learned it the hard way here on the show answering these questions for 30 years and also in my personal life that um the better angels in all of us the nicer parts of all of us all have the ability to enable we all have have the ability to want to make everything okay for someone else and sometimes we want it more for them than they do and that's when enabling happens enabling is never good enablers are always when i'm talking to one they're always the nicest people they're just the sweetest people they just want everybody to be happy and they're just helpful and but it they they took their sweetness to a toxic level and and ended up giving a drunk a drink yeah the drunk's really happy but but

but you just gave a drunk a drink. You just said, hey, here's some Jack Daniels, buddy. And, you know, I mean, you just, you know, and so if you're covering for your little brother who's not working much. Mm-hmm. And. Well, I agree if he wasn't paying the bills.

But he said at the beginning of the call, though, his wording was, which I listened, the wording was, okay. He's barely making his bills, but he's making, I mean. Yeah, but we know. It probably, yes, there will be a time. The pattern is there. That's fair, fair.

That there's going to be a problem. I can predict it. But would you pay an extra $500 and rent somewhere, or like, Would you up the rent to move out? It's going to have to of some kind. But I think he's got to get in a functional situation if he wants to enter a functional relationship with the young lady.

Yeah, instead of hanging on back here, cleaning up behind him all the time. And so there's some gain there. And I think it's going to be the best thing for the person that you're enabling is when you stop. It's really good for him. It's like, I love you too much to participate in your crazy. I am no longer signing up for the trip to crazy land.

You've taken that trip by yourself. And you've got to talk this through, man, and just go, I love you. And no way. No, no, you go do that stuff by yourself. I don't do that. And I'm not going to help you do it. And I'm not going to finance it while you do it. Child of mine, a parent of mine, uncle of mine, little brother of mine, whatever it is.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey host, Ramsey Personality. Number one bestselling author is my co-host today. Robert is in Florida. Hey, Robert, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve.

What's up? I am calling because my wife and I recently went to Montana for a couple weeks. um first time we've ever really experienced the country other than the east coast and uh we're close to retirement and now we're considering buying a motor coach and spending two years uh you know we're still having a home base but two years going on long trips and seeing national parks and you know it's just something that's in our gut that we want to do but i know how you feel about things with motors and wheels and, you know, things of that nature. So considering our net worth, do you think, you know, we should do this, or do you think

we've lost our minds? Well, what's your net worth? Right around $3 million. Okay. All right. So what would you spend for the bus? Probably $200,000. Okay.

So there's a couple ways to look at it. One is you say, okay. Did you, when you just did this other trip, did you take a coach or did you just drive the car? No, no, no, we flew out there and we bounced around, you know, we went to Glacier National and a couple other, you know, really beautiful places. Beautiful, yeah, that's cool. Good, good trip. Okay, so the answer is yes, you can afford it, okay? And the way I determine that is this.

I use the burn the money in the middle of the floor analogy, okay? So if I take $200,000 and I burn it in the middle of the floor. or I throw it out the window of the car on the interstate just to watch the traffic swerve, okay? Does that change my life if I have $3 million? No. Right. So if this is the worst possible decision ever,

your life is still okay. So the answer is yes, you can afford it. But then I'll give you some suggestions on things that Sharon and I have experienced. Okay. A correlation might be a second home. Okay. You go, we have friends that go to the beach. And while they're staying at the beach, they go, I've always wanted a house on the beach, a condo on the beach.

Okay. Yeah. And it sparks their interest, just like yours has sparked on this. They've never had a house that was a second home, and they've never lived on the beach. They've stayed there two weeks. Yeah. So what I suggest to them is, before you spend. $10,2 million on a beach house, why don't you just go rent one for five months and live there

and see if it's all it's cut out to be. They came home and didn't like it and were glad they didn't purchase. So the correlation here might be, why don't you rent a motor coach for a month for 20 grand? For 20 grand. And let's burn 20 grand up before we burn 200 grand up and make sure it's as much as a romantic and as much of a thing as you think it is. It might be, and it might not be. You might be, I prefer to fly in private,

charter, and rent an SUV than I do drive with all these Yehus. You might decide that. Right. And by about the same amount of money, by the way. There you go. I know it's, I know I'm not going to come out of this, you know, on top as far as money goes. No, you're going to lose the money.

oh yeah oh absolutely this is gonna you're but it's what you'll enjoy robert so one couple doesn't like the beach well we know plenty of couples that do and have a house yeah go go try it and if they had liked it then buy the house right yeah if you like the motor coach after renting it for a month go do that but i mean the number of guys that buy a motorcycle and it sits in the garage 24 seven and they drive it twice a year and they thought they were going to go on all these trips and stuff is a bunch okay yeah and you could have rented the stupid motorcycle for the weekend and had the best motorcycle on the planet and gone and done road through the fall leaves or whatever it is you want to do, right? It's okay. Go do that stuff. But I'm just saying try it

before you buy it is what I would do. I'd invest a little bit of money in that. Sharon and I actually did that on a second home area that we did. We rented a home for 30 days and looked at other homes in the neighborhood while we were there. And we loved it and ended up buying a second home in that neighborhood. And, but we, by that time, we had been there 30 days, we knew everything about all the ups down, sideways. We knew how bad it. And, and that, and so, yeah, when you own another vehicle, you got one more thing that breaks all the time. I was going to say, that's the other thing is the maintenance side of it. It just breaks all the time. It's just, the more crap you own, the more repairmen you have to know, houses, cars, all that stuff. More money, more problems,

you know. More money, no problem. That's it. Yeah. That's it. So, I mean, I, I want you to try it out. I want you to go do it. You can afford it is the answer to your question. But before you turn this one weekend trip into this $200,000 decision, I would baby step into it, no pun intended. That's exciting, Robert. Yeah. From the way you were talking, I think you and your wife, I think this will be the retirement.

I'm excited for you. You think they're going to like it? I think they'll like it. Yeah. There you go. There you go. That's the thing. So, now if, Mark, is it, Mark, I'm just, I'm not going to Raleigh, North Carolina.

Hey, Mark. Hey, there. Thanks for taking my call. Sure, man. What's up? So I'm at this crossroads. I'm 57 years old. I've been trying to do the baby steps.

I'm all out of whack as far as the order, I'm sure. But sort of where I find myself is I'm looking at potentially work changing a little bit for me in the next, say, by the end of the year, or me changing myself. So basically where I am financially, I'm trying to figure out, I think I know the answer, is I've got about 310,000 saved. Oh, about 240 on my house. I have about 450 in an IRA. And I was debating on should I try to play catch up a little bit before this potential change happens as far as my income? Or should I just pay the house off and be done with that.

Pay the house off. And move on. I pay the house off by nightfall. I wouldn't have that money in the bank and have a mortgage. You borrowed on your home to have money on the bank. Right. Net net. Yeah, net net.

So what are you talking about change? You're going to make less income? Yeah. Like right now between my wife and I, I'm sorry. Why? Just potential of work downturn and work right now. What field are you? I mean, I, advertising.

Okay. And the other thing is I'm also looking at as I may want to just change my life as well. in other words, not keep pursuing that, but try to do something that has a little bit more impact and gives back a little bit more. Maybe we're talking about just a life change in general versus pursuing that. Okay.

Well, you would be a lot more free to do that if you didn't have an ounce payment. I mean, that's kind of what I was thinking. Yeah. You read a halftime by Buford? I'm sorry? Have you read a book called Half Time by Bob Buford? No, I have not.

You have to pick it up and read it. You're describing it. The second part of your life? Yeah, it's the, yeah, first half, back half, particularly with males. It's been the first half of our life in acquisition, the second half searching for significance. That's sort of where it mad. I've done a lot of things to help a lot of people in advertising world to pursue what they wanted to do. And now I'm sort of like I don't feel like I've given back as much as I'd like to give back and actually make an impact, you know what I mean, on things in a positive way.

Yeah, I agree. I think that's cool. I think it's good. And you need to pursue those issues and take them to ground, either whether you do it inside your career or with a separate career. Either one's fine with me. Yeah, pick that book up. You'll like it. It's called Half Time by Bob Buford. It's a really, it's an old book, but it's a great book. in Florida. Hi, Michelle. How are you? I'm doing all right. How are you all? Better than we deserve. What's up? So I'm calling for your advice today. I lost my husband about six months ago. I'm sorry. Thank you. How long were you married? Almost 30 years.

Wow. Okay. So he was just like a couple years. We could have retired, but he wanted to work for a couple more years. and we have two homes. They're both paid for. One is in Florida and one is in Utah. And our plan initially was to go back and forth between a home. But now that he's passed, I'm just, I'm calling to kind of like what would Dave do.

Financially, I'm just wondering if you think it would be better if I sold one of the homes or both the homes or, you know, diversify and invest that money or in the long. and what would be best financially for me. Well, I mean, why would you keep both of them? Well, I was thinking that mostly for investment, like one I would live in, and then the other So where are you planning to live? I'm not sure yet. I kind of vacillate. I would like to go out to Utah, I think, but my job is here in Florida.

My friends are here in Florida. Do you have kids? In Utah. I do, but they're grown. The last one launched this year. Where are they? Three of them are in California, and one is in Georgia. Okay.

Do you have grandkids? No. Okay. Not yet. Okay. But the potential would be California, it sounds like, mainly. Yes. Yes.

All right. So you're how old? I'm 55. Okay. And your life is currently centered in Florida. It is. So what's the draw to Utah again? I just like it out west.

Oh, okay. Oh, okay. And they're both paid for. Did he have life insurance, Michelle? He did. I mean, honestly, he left me in a really, really good situation. I have choices. So I have over a million in like Roth IRA and 401K,

and I have about $600,000 just sitting in a high-yield savings account right now that I'm trying to figure out what to do it. Okay. I would only want to own a home where I'm going to do life unless I was going to actively use something as a second home. And I don't, I like the mountains, is not I actively. use Utah as a second home. Is this like Park City, or?

It's south of, no, it's south of Salt Lake. But in the mountains, or is it just in a suburbs? It's in the suburb. It's in the, like, the Wasatch Valley area. Like, I have a beautiful area. Okay. Yeah, another way to ask this sometimes as I reverse engineer it in my own head, would I do it if I didn't have a house in Utah today,

and I'm a six-month widowed and I've got my life centered in Florida. I like Utah and I like the mountains. Would I go buy a house there or would I just go up there and stay some? I don't hear a house in this. Okay. I hear visits. Yes, it is visits right now because we were both still working. Yeah, and you're still working.

I mean, you're not shutting your life down in Florida. No, well, not anymore. You probably have enough money to retire. But you're probably not going to go to Utah where you don't have any connections and sit around all day. No. That's weird. That would be lonely. I guess I was wondering because my house is worth so much more here in Florida,

and I thought maybe that wasn't wise either. No, I think you're fine. What's it worth? What's the one in Florida worth? About 1.5 or 1.6. You're fine. It's not. Okay.

It's still not. And it's paid for. And it's paid for. It is. And the house and, yeah, I, I, I don't think you're going to get the incremental joy and use out of the Utah house with, with him in heaven that you were going to have before. But I do think you still love the mountains and you probably go up there and visit some and do some vacationing there. But you're probably not going to, and you don't want to rent it. That would be a horrible idea.

Oh, okay. Renting something halfway across the country is really, you would never say, you never say, you never say I'm sitting in Florida and I'm going to go buy a rental house in Utah. That just wouldn't be logical. You would want to buy a rental house in the area where you are if you want to own real estate. But, I mean, there's no rush. As you said, you've been left in a wonderful condition. And if you want to take some time and pray about it, it's only six months.

You can take some more time if you want. I would not rent it. I would only keep it if you feel like you're going to get enough use of it to justify owning it and maintaining it and paying the insurance and the taxes, which is probably going to be $100,000 plus a year. Utilities, maintenance, taxes, property taxes, and so forth, and, you know, making sure everything's taken care of just for it to sit there to be there when you want to go visit. And I really think you could go, you know, to the montage at Deer Valley and stay for a long

time for $100,000. Right. That's why I called you. Yeah. But I, but I also, I'm fine with 30 years of marriage and your, your life just got changed. And if you take a minute and cry and think about it, I'm okay with that too. Okay. But please don't rent it. Please don't rent it. You'll hurt your own feelings if you rent it because your dream is going to have renters living in it your old dream that's dead now and it's going to have renters and you're not going to like that emotionally don't do that don't do that to yourself so sell the house before you rent it but i think you're going to i think you're going to sell it and you're going to enjoy the money in other ways doing some other stuff

yeah put it towards um the travel end of it versus owning it yeah you can just you can move about the country as the commercial says yeah yeah that's um wow i'm sorry i'm Michelle, though, that's hard. It changes everything. Well, and it's probably a level of letting go of kind of what you said of what was supposed, yeah, of what's supposed to be. So there's like a little bit of that grief. It wasn't supposed to be this way. We were supposed to finish up working and then get to go to Utah, you know, and it'll be a sad selling for sure.

Yeah, it's, and it's not even, um, from like a touristy standpoint, you know what I mean? Like you wouldn't even like a VRBO like, not even like long-term or short-term rentals. Oh, no. You cringe. Yeah. V-R-B-O, yeah, no, that's... Verbo, I know, but we're talking about, we're talking about serious amount of maintenance now.

You're now running a hotel. That's different than renters. That's another step up of, uh, yeah, that's, oh, man. Now you're buying sheets. Yeah, this is, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. All right, Dean is in Pittsburgh. Hey, Dean, what's up? Hey, Dave, um, how are you doing?

Better than I deserve. How can we help? So, I got myself in kind of a bad, situation here. I had an ex-Biance and I co-signed a car refinance. When we were going to get married, she had over a 25% APR on her car. She was drowning in the amount of interest she was paying. So I co-signed it got it down to a 7% five-year loan and suddenly she stopped paying for it. Shocking. She isn't, yeah, she's not being cooperative with me or the bank. So, wait a minute, do you, you don't have any ownership on the car, right?

None at all. None at all, sir. Okay. All right. How much is owed on this car that she's going to get repoed on you? About $7,000, and it's a 2013 T.S. So it's probably not worth more than a thousand, and I think they'd be very lucky to get $500. Okay.

All right. I got really bad news, dude. you can't, the amount of money is not worth suing her over. You're going to lose some money here after they repo it and you're going to get your credit tagged after they repo it and you're going to end up writing the bank of check for $3,000 or $4,000 to get your name out of this mess before it's over. You could start on that now if you wanted to, offering them $3,000 to release you and let them go after her.

But good luck with all that. When I do something stupid and it costs me money, man, I call it stupid tax. So when you write this check in the four column, write stupid tax. Guys, if you like what you're hearing around here, please click the share button, the follow button, the subscribe button, let people know we're here, tell people about the show, spread the word for spread the love. You are our marketing plan. We appreciate it. Guys, if you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on? How would they pay the mortgage?

How would they afford groceries? If anyone in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance. But how do you choose from all the options that are out there? Well, it's actually pretty simple. Life insurance is one job. Replace your income. And term life insurance is the only kind that does only that. The others, like Whole Life or Permanent Life, try to add in investing,

and they dumb down the insurance part, and they raise the cost really high. You only need life insurance while someone depends on you finance. So if you're like most people, you need a policy worth 10 to 12 times your income for a term of 15 to 20 years. And it should be a level term policy, meaning the premium stays the same. For more info and resources, use our free term life insurance guide. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash term life guide or click the link in the description. And we'll help you out. Josh is in Pennsylvania.

Hey, Josh, how are you? Good. How are you guys? Better than I deserve. What's up? so i'm calling in we we had 90 000 that we have paid it down we only have 28 000 left um and we have about 20 000 in crypto that i've had for years that it's just kind of sat there it's like everybody else has i'm just wondering should i liquidate that to just get through baby step two here

and just finalize everything yes simple answer yeah Anything that you had money in that was not retirement, we would tell you to liquidate it and clear your debt. Okay. And focus very intensely on your debt, because when your debt is cleared up, you then have control of your most powerful wealth building tool, which is not investments. It's actually your income. And when your income's all going out in debt payments, you've limited your ability to bill wealth. Correct. I mean, look, followed you guys religiously for a while.

So, well, not too religiously. You've got $20,000 in crypto, so you weren't real religious about it. But the, I mean, semi. I mean, you went to church on Easter, but that was it. And so, but that, so anyway, the, anyway, the thing is, yeah, if you had the money in Apple stock, if you had the money in mutual funds, if you had the money in a money market account, if you had the money in a shoebox under your bed, we would tell you the exact same thing to liquidate it. and pay off your debt as fast as possible. It just gives us a little bit more joy when it's something as stupid as crypto

to tell you to do it. So, yeah, but yeah, I definitely go do that, for sure. When is a world that Dave Rams would ever buy crypto? I don't gamble much. If it ever became a proven investment for you? Well, it's not going to be a proven investment because it's a commodity. and commodities are never a proven investment.

That's a problem. Commodities like gold or oil. I don't buy bears of oil either. Sure. Blockchain. Exactly. And I don't buy blockchain. And so I don't buy crypto.

So it's a currency. I don't buy the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can invest in the Deutsche Mark or the end. They're a proven currency. You could look at the track record and see how that is done versus the USD, right? Or the euro. I mean, you could play.

It's a currency. It's a cryptocurrency. Yeah. And so a digital currency. So you could, you know, but I don't invest in currencies. So crypto is no exception. It's just the least appealing because it has the least track record of all of them today. Someday, though, it could have a long track record and it could be very much more legitimate than it is now.

Right now, it's just all the cool kids doing stupid stuff. And it's just, it's maddening because people are using up their wealth building power that they could have actually become wealthy and they get screwed over trying to be cool. and because it's very faddish it's as dumb as beanie babies or you know really I mean people were buying beanie babies and I've had people call me on the show

in the old days Your wife My wife No no no she bought beanie babies like crazy But she never once said it was your college fund Oh true yeah I had people put their kids college fund In Beanie babies

The Princess Diana Bear We had a special thing for the tag I got one the dog carries it around But I don't know one that is sold I know. They supposedly sold for $10,000, but I've never seen one. They're for sale on eBay, but no one's ever bought one. So anyway, it's hilarious.

I mean, you know, we had, you were a baby, and there was a thing that went around. People decided they were going to, instead of investing in cattle and pigs, they were going to buy emus. Because emu meat was somewhat like ostrich meat. And we had emu. We had friends that bought farms and bought emuos. I mean, this is the same, it's the same category for me as crypto. I mean, it's just the same, it's just a fad and beanie babies. And so it's just because it's just something everybody's into and all the cool kids are talking about it.

And it's just, you know, people are just doing it in mass. And so, because they're loose in their butts, they really are. And so. Well, the amount of, what's wild to me is the amount of scams. And the amount of scams within it. And the amount of things people have lost. I mean, so much money people. have lost in it. Yeah, I mean, the other day, we took a call, Jade, and I caught a catfish. I mean,

Jade caught the catfish. The guy was catfish in this girl from Russia. She had never met him, and her boyfriend with crypto. And she wanted her to cash out her 401k and put it into crypto with him. And she'd never met him physically. It was a complete, you know, romance scam over the internet, but they're using crypto to do it. So, oh, my God. I mean, that stuff's everywhere. We're getting that stuff in here. And by the tidal waves into our offices by email, help us with this help. We're not the FBI. We can't help you with this. It's just, you know, try not doing stupid stuff. That'll help. It's just, oh my gosh. Wow. It was so sad, too. It's the first time maybe she ever realized that she didn't have a real boyfriend was when Jade told her. It was

awful. Man. It was just devastating. That's why we all need friends. Yeah, right. People need people. John is in Louisiana. Hey, John, what's up? Hey, how's it going, guys? Better than we deserve. how can we help that's good it's good hey uh got a blessing brought on us uh my parents are gifting us their modular home and about three acres of land on their property and uh i guess really i have a few questions but my first one is should we use the money that we receive from selling our current home to remodel and upgrade the place that we're receiving or should i pay off some debt with that money okay so many questions um how much debt do you have uh once my house is sold my current home

i would have about 60 000 60 to 65 000 in vehicles that is it okay um so uh and but i mean you're getting money from your current home right yes yeah about 140 we should sell around 190 to a $2.10, somewhere's in there. And you have other debt that you would use that money for, or you're asking whether to pay the cars off with that? Yeah, should I pay the cars off with it or should I fix up the home? You should pay the cars off or you should sell them. What do you make?

What's your household income? Together we bring home $77,000. Okay, you don't need $65,000 worth of cars, her. You're going to be broke your whole life. Right. You've got too much tied up in cars. Okay, yeah, we do have a little plan with the no-house payment, obviously. We plan to pay both vehicles off in two years.

Doesn't matter. You still got $65,000 you're going to turn into $10,000, and you don't make enough money to do that. You've got too much of your life invested in things going down in value rapidly, whether it has debt or not. Yeah, John, we would say anything with motors and wheels, it should be half your annual income. So you guys should have closer to like $30,000, $35,000. Max. Your cars are killing you. Yeah.

You owe almost as much on your cars as you do your house. Wow. Yeah, it's about half. I know. It's devastating. Okay, that's first part. Second part. Okay, second part.

Modular house. Help me with that. Is this a trailer? The difference between the difference between a modular home, I got a, a definition pulled up, modular home and manufactured homes. The modular homes are factory-built homes that are essentially the same as traditional homes, once assembled. So pretty much they're made with better homes. If I walk up to it, I can't tell that it wasn't stick-built.

No. Okay. So there's wall sections put together, and they came on a truck, and that's modular. That's the proper definition. But I can't tell that this house, it doesn't remind me of a trailer. It reminds me of a house. Yes, it reminds you of a shotgun-style house. Okay, then you can fix that one up.

That's fine. But if you can tell, if it looks like a trailer, it's a trailer. Natasha is in California. Hi, Natasha. How are you? Oh, I'm doing great. Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve.

What's up? Yes, my husband and I. have a little bit of debt, but we also have savings. And so I was wondering if it'd be a good idea to take from our savings to pay down our debt. How much savings? How much debt? So total savings is $75,000, $45,000 and just a regular savings account, $30, and a separate IRA or simple IRA. Oh, so part of this is retirement money. Okay. Yes. So 35 and say to again the 45 in savings okay and how much debt and then a 65,000 total on what one is a business vehicle and one is business credit card and a consumer credit card from our personal okay

they're all consumer by the way because the business was not loaned any money it doesn't have any money you signed them personally yes you qualified them as business no one else did okay just to help you The law doesn't see it that way, in other words. The bank doesn't see it that way. They didn't loan that business any money. It doesn't have any money. Yes. So is that your husband's work truck?

Yes. What's he do for a living? We own a film production company and an event production, so it calls all our equipment. Gotcha. Okay. How's the business doing? Is it making money? Well, yes.

Yes, we make money. Good, good. Congratulations. Thank you. All right. Um, well, what we teach folks, um, in the business you should be holding back some of your profits in the business account for retained earnings, which is a savings inside the business to cover the ebb and flow of business and cash flow. Okay. Okay. So you've got to be keeping some cash over there to cover different bills that come in before the customers pay their bills, okay? Payables versus receivables, cash flow. And, um, so, um, and probably even for some growth, if you want to buy some equipment or things like that, you'd have a little cash over there.

So start setting aside a percentage of your profits in the business to keep there in the business. Then when it comes home, we work with to run the household, and that would include paying off all of our debts. Hmm. What kind of income? What's your household income off of this business? What's the taxable income? So total taxable income,

the is 184,000. The profit? For both of us. No. That's not perfect. You'd only pay taxes on profit. Okay. So, yeah.

Oh, yeah. So then that would be our profit. Okay. So that's... My husband also has a 9 to 5. Like, he also earns a salary. Oh, I see. Okay.

All right. Yeah, I want to clear these debts, whether they're labeled business or whether the not as fast as possible. So yeah. So anyway, and on the personal level, what we teach folks is what we call the baby steps. And the first baby steps have only $1,000 saved. Everything above that, that's not retirement we would throw at the debt. So the answer to your question is, yeah, we would take most of this $40,000 and throw it at the debt. But in your situation, I probably need to pull some of that $40,000 and set it in the business account to make sure we've got enough to cover the

slush I'm talking about. Is there any savings in the business right now? Do you have any money set aside? Not savings, it just sits in the active account. No, but I mean, how much is in there? Oh, good question. About, we roll over maybe about three to four thousand a month. Okay. Or some months are good, some are, you know, it just. Yeah, you need to keep a little in there so that it doesn't drain back out of the house, okay?

And then pass that, we're going to pay off the debts, smallest to largest. and I'm going to pay the $40,000, all of it, but $1,000 at these debts. It sounds like that's going to clear up everything but the truck and a big bunch of the truck. Right, yes, we owe $39,000 on the truck, $39,000. Okay, and so you've got $16,000 and other debt? Yes. Okay, yeah, cut up the business credit card, quit using a business credit card. Okay, make the business cover.

It debit cards all you need there. Make it cover itself. It has to cash flow its own deal. It has to create money, not drain money. And so when you sneak off money over on the side on the credit card, it makes you feel like you're doing better in the business than you actually are. And so you've got to get rid of that problem from a business management or acumen standpoint. And then, but if we clear, if we pay that credit card off and cut it up, we pay off 16 out of the 40. And then we start throwing chunks and chunks and chunks at this car, you could be done with this car by Christmas and be 100% debt-free and then rebuild your savings, your emergency fund, a fully funded emergency fund, and your personal is three to six months of expenses, which in Euro's case is probably $30,000 or $40,000 again. I want you to get back up to that $40,000 number by this time next year. But you could do that. You could be debt-free and be back to your $40,000 number by this time next year if you've concentrate on it and tighten up your budget really tight.

Yeah, and the fact that you guys have other jobs. I mean, he has another full-time job, too, on top of it. It's a total of $184,000 household income. Of everything. Yeah, that's what she said. So it's good, yeah. You guys can do that. That's reachable there.

Megan is in Delaware. Hi, Megan. How are you? Hi, and well, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm calling regarding two investment condos that my husband and I own. We've owned them for about 20 years.

We have a fiduciary advisor who's advising us to sell them and buy one or two multifamilies in a different state where we could possibly or hopefully get more rent compared to what we're getting now. And my question to you is, should we do that or should we sell the apartments, just take the equity and get the tax hit but then just have the equity and not have any more investment properties anymore? Yeah. Multifamily is very intense to manage because it's multi-family, and being in another state is a nightmare as far as I'm concerned. I own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate, and I don't own any multifamily in another state. Oh. Yeah, I think that's part of our problem, too, is we're overwhelmed.

We have kids, and we both work full time, and we're overwhelmed thinking about how much energy. Your advisor is telling you what he wishes he could do, not what you should do. Mm-hmm. Yeah. She owns a lot of multifamily. That's kind of how we found her. You found her because you were looking to do multifamily? No, we found her because I had – it was hard to find an investment or an advisor who would help us with our real estate because we have so much equity and so much of our wealth is in real estate.

in our 401 case. Oh, I see. Yeah, I wanted somebody who specialized in it. Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, you got. That's fair. Yeah.

Yeah, that's a fair assessment. And, but she's going to take you, I mean, you know, when you're a hammer, everything's a nail, right? Well, and if you're tired right now, Megan, then that's, that's triple, quadruple tires, right? You're not, you're not getting rid of the tired. Meg, let you better back on. I want to ask her. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Megan, if you sold both of those, how much would you guys net out if you sold your condos and didn't buy a multifamily?

So they're worth $1.6 million together, and we own one of them outright, and we have $120,000 less on a mortgage with the other one. Okay. And what's your, what's in your 401K? My husband and I together have $4.5 million. Way to gosh. Well done. Good job. Well done. Thank you. proud of you yeah um if you don't want to own real estate anymore then because of the hassle of it then you don't want to own multifamily in another state okay if you do want to own real estate it's okay i'm so worried down the line because i hear you and and so many wealthy people who have a little bit of both and i'm afraid if i sell it then i won't have any more real estate is that

okay that's a good question it's okay if you don't want real estate i mean i know people that hate idea of owning real estate because it is a real estate gives you a much greater rate of return than the stock market will but it's also a much greater hassle factor it is yeah you don't you don't have the neighbor you don't have a tree fall on the neighbor's yard when you own a mutual fund yeah and if you guys are tired megan i would i mean just you could sell them and then spend a couple of years just investing and then if you guys want to get back into real estate you can you know go into a type of real estate that's much less intensive like you could roll this into a 1031 exchange to go buy some warehouses on Triple Net,

and they don't take up any mental calories versus multifamily, the other end of the spectrum on mental calories. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co-host today.

Sarah is with us in Detroit. Hi, Sarah. How are you? I'm great. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I am calling.

I am recently divorced and the mom of two teenagers. And I'm trying to figure out my best path forward with my retirement money. I was never the one in the marriage who focused on this. And so in listening to your show, I'm really all over the map with my baby steps. But the one thing I do have, I was able to keep my 401K with the divorce. I have $9333,000 in my 401k. Wow, good for you. Not bad for somebody that didn't know what was going on.

You got a million bucks, girl. I know, I know. I'm 47. I'm a child welfare worker. And with my job with the state, I'm actually able to convert that 401. to a Roth IRA. And I hear that you say on your show that Roth is better than 401K. So I'm trying to determine if that is how much would I be paying, like, tax implications.

Is this smart to do at my age? Are you still working? I am still working. I can retire in about five years. I don't anticipate retiring five years, given my income. I would change your current contributions to be Roth only. but that's different than the 933. Anything of the 933 that we move to a traditional is going to be taxed.

Okay. Now, I'd like for you to do that over time, but in context with a bunch of other things going on, not just go, hey, let's write a $250,000 check in taxes and move $800,000 over instead of $950, okay? Because that's what it's going to do to you, and I wouldn't do that. Okay. It's going to cost you $250,000 in taxes to move this right now, and I wouldn't do that. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Okay. So, but I do want you to systematically move it over a number of years in context with everything else you're doing that we've not gotten to yet. Okay. Okay. So you've done a great job. Congratulations. You're a millionaire. And from this point forward, you're going to make contributions in the Roth.

So call HR, change your, change your 401K from this point forward to be Roth contributions. Okay. Roth 401K. Roth 401k. Okay, she's asking about a Roth IRA. You have a Roth 401k. Is this Roth IRA now? No, it's not. I have the ability to switch it over to a Roth IRA.

No, yeah, you can switch it to a Roth 401k. You can't switch it to a Roth IRA unless you quit. Okay. Gotcha, okay. You can't move a 401k while you're currently employed. But you could roll it to the Roth 401k and do the same exact thing. That's what I was talking about. Do you have a Roth IRA, Sarah, or just a traditional IRA?

That's a traditional 401K. I just have the traditional 401K. Well, she should open a Roth IRA as well. Yeah, that wouldn't be a bad thing. Are you debt-free now? So I only have, I'm working on it. I just have final lawyer's fees that I have to pay. But I should hopefully, in the next two months, I should hopefully be done with that.

Good for you. But then I do have to save up. for my three to six months. And it's crushing me to not continue putting money in my 401K or opening up the raw. That's okay. You need, listen, you've been through hell and you need an emergency fund. You're going to feel better when you got 20 or 30 grand laying around, and then you go back to your 401K.

You're okay. You're not going to retire with dog food kid. You got it. You did it. You're a millionaire. Thank you. Okay. You're okay.

Thank you. The only question now is just how we can maximize it, not are we on, you're not going to be homeless. I mean, you're good. So we're good shape. So what I will tell you is jump on ramsysolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pro. And find someone in your area that that's the people that we recommend in that world that will sit and spend some long form time with you and catch you up. Because what you are is a smart, intelligent person that does not have this particular information.

Correct. And so you've got a little bit of learning to do. not difficult learning and the smart vestor pros we will not send people to investment people unless they have the heart of a teacher because I want them to teach you so you're making the decision with the information they give you not my guy told me to okay I want you to be confident and competent going forward because that creates a sustainable situation but what it's going to look like Sarah is pausing at all that retirement right now not doing anything with it, pausing it, getting that cash save for your emergency fund. And then what it'll look like

in four years, probably is that you're going to have a Roth IRA as one account that you're going to be funding. You're going to have a 401k traditionally. And then a Roth. And so you'll, and then slowly moving some of that money over time. Yeah. And then I would move some of that traditional to Roth each year without tripping your tax brackets. That's right. That's right. And that's what they're going to help you do. Yeah. And so over a 10 year period of time, you're going to move it all to Roth. But instead of just writing a singular check up front, boom, and taking the hit, I wouldn't do that. I'd move it gradually and let someone help you do the math on that and show you why you're doing it that way.

Rachel's exactly right. But yeah, you'll get the lawyer's fees and the emergency fund cleaned up and then you can start your 401K back, but start it back as a Roth, and you'll be doing a Roth that individual on the side. And then the last step will be to gradually start moving some of this 933 into Roth inside your 401K, unless you leave, and if you leave, you can move it inside of an IRA. Either one would be fine. So very good, very good. Wow, she's done great.

Mm-hmm. It's great, Sarah. We have talked to several multimillionaires today. Mm-hmm. An unusual number. A lot of people doing. One particular day. Yeah.

Four million, eight million, three million, a million with her. Pretty cool. It's great. Pretty cool. Folks are doing better out there than a lot of people think folks are done out there. It turns out the stuff that, that we're talking about around here works. Some people are doing it without us talking about it because they never heard of us.

Some people are doing it because they followed exactly what we told them to do and they become baby steps millionaires. But either one works. I mean, we're just happy. We're happy for you when you succeed. And we're going to love you enough to tell you the truth, whatever the situation is, and help you get things aligned so that you can succeed in all of these things. And the interesting thing is that we keep coming back to on this show.

when we have from day one, personal finance is 80% behavior. It's only 20% had knowledge. The mathematical knowledge to become extremely wealthy you learn by the sixth grade in most schools. Okay, compound interest is multiplication. That's all it is. If you know how to do multiplication, you're ready to go. And then you can add and subtract into a budget and tell if you're spending more than you may. so it's not about that it's about controlling the person in your mirror becoming a person of character

developing only quality relationships and exiting toxic ones or redeeming toxic ones whatever so that they're no longer affecting the whole process because this whole thing works together your spiritual walk your relational walk your behavior the way you take care of your body the way you treat each other in your family all of these things enter into whether or not you actually can become financially successful. Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Why Refi. You may think no one can help with your defaulted private student loans, but why refi is different. They work with borrowers in tough spots without judgment.

Check them out at why refi.com. slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. Not available in all states. Today's question comes from Jill in Michigan. I recently got engaged and we're trying to figure out how we should be splitting the wedding expenses. I understand that you always recommend that married couples combine finances, but what do you do in the stage where you're moving from a boyfriend to a girlfriend to engage and planning a wedding when most of the cost will come out of our pockets and not

from our parents? Yeah, it's a great question, Jill. I mean, I can tell you what Winston I did. We just opened up a separate checking account completely and put our wedding money in that. The wedding checking account. Yeah, we called it the wedding checking account. And then used debit card, wrote checks and stuff out of that account. So, but from the splitting expenses, I think you got, I mean, however much you both have to spend on the wedding, that's going to be the budget. And it may be coming more from him or from you.

I don't know, whatever you guys decide the total is going to be of what you guys can afford. Yeah, the amount percent. percentage-wise of who comes from who, that doesn't bother me. So if it's a $20,000 wedding and it's $10 and $10, that's great. If it's $5.15, that's great. I mean, I don't care. But yeah, I would put it in one account and then you guys just use that account as the wedding account. And then once I ended up just migrating all of our money to that account eventually and closed out our other two. And that became our, you know, joint checking at that point. But post-wedding. Post wedding, yeah.

Yeah, the, so, yeah, I think the main issue is you sit down and say, okay, with my budget and my debts and my savings, here's what I can contribute to the wedding. And with your budget, your debts, and your savings, what can you contribute? And we both come to a number, and it doesn't have to be the same number. I agree with Rachel, but it does need to be laid out ahead of time. So you say, okay, I can put in five and I can put in 15, we've got our 20, okay. and then you've got and we're both have a clearly aligned goal of and here's when I'm going to be able to do that when I sell this car or when I do that and that's how we're going to be able to fund that and then that'll help you come up with your wedding budget and then I'll go a step further beyond the question and tell you um we had um in classic Ramsey style three uh wonderful fun parties that were weddings that were honoring to God, and we had a blast at all three of them, all three kids. They were absolute fun celebrations.

We liked a party. And that was the positive. And the other positive was that all three of them were in huge compliment to all three Ramsey Gen 2s. They laid out a game plan. They put a number on it, and then they broke it down. line by line what we're going to spend on the wedding and they stuck to it by and large and so no one had a little uh four-year-old in the cereal aisle meltdown bride braida fit and no mother-in-laws

had a bridezilla fit uh like some of these things you see on these reality stuff and all that this was just like okay here's a project and it's going to cost this the dress is going to be this the reception is going to be the big number usually. And if you're going to throw a party, it is. And here's the videographer, and here's where we pay the preacher, and here's what the venue costs. And you're running a project, like you're building a house. Here's what the carpet costs. Here's what the lights cost.

And that's the budget. And we stick to that then. We don't go, oh, you know, we can do without the lobster flown in from Madagascar or whatever, right? I will say, because it's a story you wrote, Smart Money, Smart Kids. I did go over a little bit with the chairs at the reception. You did, you remember that? I did remember that. And I was like, hey, I just had to have the gold chairs.

No, no, no, no, no. It was just the, yes, when everything shook out, there was a, there was a small deficit. But it was, it was not. No, it was not significant. And it really was. But in Rachel fashion, I spent every last penny of the three kids. This one here is the one that went over, yeah. And so, but it was just, it was enough that it made a really good joke.

And so, and we make fun over for the next 25 years. So that's it. But the, it's good family legend stuff. But anyway, the point being, you lay out a budget and you say, this is the number, and that means we're going to spend X on dress, Y on reception, and this, and we can't do the open bar or we can or whatever we're doing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you look at the cost, you can't just say, oh, none of this matters because of romance. Yes, it does.

You're going to screw up the romance with the money. And it's honestly, and it's good learning. I mean, I know people, depending on when you're getting married. You always have to make choices. Yes, yes. And I remember we had to do stuff like in the actual church, the pews, you know, the flowers on the side and all of it. We had to mix those and do berries instead.

We were getting married on Christmas because we didn't have our flower budget was over. So it was like, okay, we got to cut flowers somewhere. Where are we going to cut it? You know, so it is. You are figuring it out, but it's a great test run as a couple. Now, the guy usually doesn't care. I feel like it's usually the girl that probably has more opinions and emotions around There might be some mothers or mothers and moms involved.

Well, yeah, that's you. Thank God not for me. Anyway, it's good. It's good. You learn some boundaries there, too. Yes. So it's, but do not enter this, and this couple here isn't because the way she's asking this, I can tell.

She's not guilty. But do not enter this like I have unlimited ability to spend just because I have a right to. This entitlement thing on weddings is out of control. And, you know, and it's partly because we have. have 16th birthdays now that are out of control. And then that extrapolates into a wedding that's out of control. And so, and I don't care what you spend.

It's the out of control part I don't like. Okay. I mean, a friend of mine, they spent $125,000 on the wedding the other day. And that didn't bother me a bit. They got billions of dollars and that's not a big deal. So, but it's the, it's that the supposed grown woman and the supposed grown man that she's marrying cannot be told no one can tell them no like they're little spoiled brats or something and that drives me bananas so but if you're paying for your own you got to tell yourself

no like jill's done so jill's not guilty of that for sure but guys just be be careful with that it's it can get out of control really really quick uh frank's in alaska hey frank what's up uh not much are you better than i deserve how can i help great great so i am looking at retiring about a year and a half, or leaving my job at least. My wife's going to keep working. We have a house mortgage at $300,000. Our house is currently worth probably about $6.50. I have two vacant lots right next door to me that are completely paid off. And I'm looking at possibly building a duplex on one of these lots and living in one side as a way to become mortgage-free within my retirement. I don't want to go into retirement and carry a mortgage. So you'd sell your house?

house? Well, that's a question. My mortgage for my house right now is like $1,300 and I know I could rent it out for like $3,000 a month, and I'm thinking about just holding on to the house and using that as a supplement the income to pay off or to pay off the mortgage on a duplex. I thought you were going to be debt-free. How did you not end up debt-free? I thought you told me you were doing this to be debt-free. Well, yeah, I'm looking to be mortgage-free. You're not mortgage-free. You've got a mortgage on the house. And the duplex.

No, he's clearing the doplex. How are you clearing the duplex? Well, clear in the duplex. Well, I have $200,000 to pay down on the duplex in cash, and then eventually selling the house to use that to pay down on the duplex. Okay. So, no, I would not do your plan. If you want to do something to become debt-free, do it, but don't have to do it and eventually do it.

You need to pull the trigger on the whole thing at once when you get ready to do it. No, I would not do this. I don't buy rental properties, investment properties with debt, period. It adds to risk. It doesn't reduce risk. So if you want to sell one of the vacant lots and sell your home and take the equity from your home and $200,000 and build a duplex. to move in half of that debt-free. We can talk about that one.

The downside then is that your tenant lives next door to you. The upside is your tenant lives next door to you. Yeah, just knock, knock, knock. Hello. Yeah. Hi, this is leaking. Hello. The light bulb's out.

Happy retirement. Something's dripping over here. Yeah. Doesn't sound fun to me, but some people can do it. Alexander is in California. Hey, Alexander, how are you? Good and you? Better than I deserve.

What's up? I'm in a predicament right now, and I need your advice. Okay. My mother passed away early March, and she has a life insurance policy for about $300,000, and it's split between me and my brother. My mom read out the policy when we were, minors in case she died of her disease as she passed away of not that long ago,

and the money is being held by my aunt and my grandma. I'm sorry. No, wait a minute, stop. That's not possible. Okay. Your mother bought a life insurance policy, and it had a beneficiary. Oh, I'm not sure how that stuff works, but. Well, I'm telling you, that's how it works, okay?

All right. And the beneficiary is who the check should have been written to. Now, did she make your grandmother the beneficiary, or did she make you the beneficiary? The paperwork states the money supposed to go to me and my brother. What paperwork? My stepfather gave me the paperwork of what the insurance policy was. Okay. How old are you?

I just turned 18, February 27. When did your mother pass away? March 2nd. After you turned 18. Yeah, I believe it was two days after I turned 18. and my mother passed. I'm so sorry. It's all right.

And your brother is how old? My brother just turned 24 a few days ago. Okay. So if you were named the beneficiaries, the check should not have been sent by the life insurance company to anyone but you. I'm confused how it got sent to your grandmother. I think it's because my stepdad said that I think it was written to my aunt and my grandma, but it states on the paper that the money is supposed to be split between the

children, which is me and my brother. No, honey, that's not how life insurance policy works. There's no paper that does that on life insurance. You haven't seen the paperwork, have you? I have the paperwork. But you've not looked at it and understood it. Okay. All right.

So I don't know what has happened based on the story you're telling me because you're getting told by family legend that paperwork says something. but I don't think it says what you think it says. And here's why, okay? A life insurance policy has a beneficiary on it. The beneficiary gets sent the check, period. If the life insurance company sends the check to someone else, they're going to lose all the money

because the person, the beneficiary is going to sue the life insurance company for all the money, and the life insurance companies just simply don't do that. They will not write the check to anyone that's not the beneficiary. okay so i think i'm guessing because you don't know and i can't tell but i'm guessing that this policy said that the life insurance was to go to your grandmother and a will or a verbal agreement with your mother said it was supposed to go to you once it went to your grandmother thinking that you were going to be a minor at the time yeah i think that's the way i said that explained it yeah but i think the reason their grandmother has the money is she was actually

the beneficiary. Okay. And unless you can produce a piece of paper like a will or something else in writing, not family legend, but in actual writing that your grandmother owes you that money because that was your mother's written will and desire. Does she have a will, Alexander? Do you know? I have no idea, to be honest.

So when you talk to your grandmother about this, what does she say? Well, I talked to my aunt about it because it was written off to both of them. So they both got their own checks, which split the money. And what did they say? Well, my aunt told me about it and my stepdad told me about it around the same time. And every time I bring it up to my aunt, like the story always changed. Like the amount of money changes or like the way she explains that the money will be spent change it. I mean, I'm not so close to her.

I'm being closer. That was maybe. Hey, you're breaking up, Alexander. We can't hear you're breaking up, huh? Are you back? Wherever you walked, walk back. Oh, uh. There you go. Yeah, you're there. Thank you. Thank you. All right. My bad. Every time, um, I do talk to my aunt, it's like something changes about it. Or like she has, like, a new role of what the money will be spent on or something like that. for you or for herself for me and my brother so she says what you have to spend it on college

or you have to spend it for a down payment or like what does she say well she'll bring up college or she'll bring up like me moving out to the Bay Area with her and going to college out there and I pay her rent but if I ever ask her for money for like something maybe I seek interest in or like to put towards my future she's always iffy about it and saying that it's not what my mother would have wanted. Okay. You do not have a legal problem. You have a relationship problem.

This cannot be solved by a court of law because you don't have any standing. Unless there's a will somewhere. And if there's not a will and you don't get your hands on a will that dictates, but a will very seldom dictates what happens to life insurance policies. It only dictates what happens to an estate. So you can have a will and it won't, it does not. supersede what the life insurance policy said so the life insurance policy um i i i i'm afraid that you are going to have to develop a relationship with your aunt that is not adversarial

and that she needs to become convinced this is for your own good she thinks she's supposed to manage this money that your mom wanted her sister to take care of you that's what she thinks and she's got some weird definitions of what take care of you means and they're different than your definition but you're 18 and you've just lost your mom and that's part of the deal so but I I'm not a lawyer

Alexander you could go spend some money with a lawyer if you want I think you're wasting it because I don't think you're going to persuade your aunt to use the money that is in some way that is good for you How much is it? How much does your aunt have? And how much does your grandmother have?

$300,000, $1508. Is that right? Yes, correct. Okay. And so, and your grandmother has some as well? Yeah, my grandmother has her check, put in a separate bank account from hers. And what does she tell you? You haven't talked to her? No, I haven't talked to her yet about it.

It's mainly my aunt trying to be in control of it all. That's why. Okay. Well, I haven't heard anything that your aunt was using it for herself. I've heard that you are not in agreement as to what's good for you. She wants to use it for one thing that's good for you. You want to use it for a different thing that's good for you. And you want control of it.

And I don't think you're going to get control of it. Your mother didn't leave you in control of it. She left your aunt in control of it. That's what it sounds like. And I don't think there's any piece of paper anywhere floating around that's going to give you control. not in the story you told me. I'll be shocked if you find it. If you find it, then I would take that piece of paper, whatever it is, the will or anything else you can find,

and sit down with your aunt in person and say, this piece of paper says that I need this money, and if you don't write me a check, I'm going to have an attorney ask you to write me a check. And then you would seek legal counsel. But I don't think you're going to find that piece of paper, Alexander, I don't think it exists. I think this was a handshake between your mother and her sister and her mom. and her mom to take care of her boys. And the boys just don't agree with what take care of is defined as. That's what it sounds like.

You hearing me? Yeah. So if I were you and your brother, A, I would look for this paperwork and not be adversarial about it until you find the paperwork. And if you don't find the paperwork, or if you do, buy an airline ticket or get in a car and drive and sit down in person, with your aunt and start trying to come to some alignment on what she thinks is good for you and what you think is good for you because I don't think the story's changing as much as you

think it's changing. I think that you've gone through a lot of tragedy and hurt and heartache and you want to do what you want to do and she's telling you no. That's what it sounds like. Our scripture of the day, 2 Timothy 2.15, do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Theodore Roosevelt said, far and away, the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing. Amen. Hey, the Ramsey goal planner is out and for sale. Set you up for 2026. It's jam-packed with monthly content from Jade, Rachel, and Dr. John Deloney to help you start each month on track with your money, your faith, and your relationships, and then follow through on your goals. We sell out every year. Don't wait. You can get yours for 4997 at Ramsey Solutions.com slash store or click the link in the show notes. Jake is in Boise, Idaho. Hi, Jake. How are you? Well, staying out of trouble, so can't complain too much.

Good. Thanks for having me on. My pleasure. How can we help? So, issue or a problem that came up is we had a murder happened right next door. Whoa. Oh, my gosh. My wife is a stay-at-home mom with two under two at home, like two little ladies.

And so obviously, like, she was at home and everything went down and all that fun stuff with all the cops showing up. But so she doesn't feel safe there anymore. It wasn't like a gang violence. thing was just a crazy guy that um yes i'd say i guess you could call it random it's like a crazy guy decided to go after some family members i'll put it that way so i mean i'm sorry say that again yeah a crazy guy just decided to try and uh just access six either and kill on one of his one of his daughters and then tried to kill another one of his other kids and that way wait a minute the murder was domestic violence gone crazy he knew the people

people he was killing, and they had nothing to do with your family? Correct. So this is not a crime spring in the neighborhood. This is crazy people lived next door. Yes, sir. Okay. So why would your wife be afraid? Well, she was at home through.

No, no, but do you have crazy people in your family that are going to come attack you? Because that's what happened. Not that I know of. Well, that's what happened. He says not that I know of. It's fair. It could be. I feel the same way, Jake.

I'd go the same way. Pretty sure no. But. Oh, brother. No, seriously. So, I would be I would be logical to be afraid if this was a random act of crime in the neighborhood.

But this was associated with the family and the people in the, a family member did this to another family member. Am I correct? Yes, that's correct. So there's no, there was no danger presented to your house except for stray bullets. Yep. Exactly.

Okay. So now that he's gone, there's no danger other than all the ickiness of this. Yes, exactly. That's my very logical brain. That's not very emotional brain. I'll put it that way works. Well, that's just, that's kind of my thought. It is emotional and it's logical, but emotions need to, they need to be run by logic, and we need to accept both.

They're both, it's valid to say a traumatic thing happened next door. It was traumatic to me and my wife and my little girl. girls, that cop cars were everywhere and people died over there. But that's traumatic. And dealing with that trauma is a valid thing. And that's a sweet thing for you to do and you and your wife to work on together. That's different than we're in danger. Yes.

Okay. And they're very separate things. Yeah. Okay. All right. I'm back with you now. I had to catch up because I didn't know the story enough. All right.

I'm sorry y'all been through this. How old are your babies? Under two. One just turned through yesterday, or today, and then another one. The other one is five months old. Oh, so the five-month-old has no idea. And the two-year-old might have seen a cop car. So really, it's your wife.

It was traumatized by it. Yes, that is 100% correct. Because I don't think the two-year-old grasps are probably what's going on. Oh, yeah. The kids are just fine. They decide it was a fun thing. And what she's saying, Jake, your wife. So because of all this, she's saying she wants to move.

yes exactly she just doesn't feel safe going on a walk to the neighborhood anymore doesn't want the little ones playing out in the backyard as much and just but she is feeling like she needs to move and I want to be able to provide that for her okay let me stop you Dr. John Deloney would say that she's not going to feel safe anywhere because the lack of safety is not due to the actual presence of crime it's due to the trauma and the trauma's inside of her and it's going to go wherever you move okay um

this happened like a couple weeks ago i've been talking to my wife quite a bit she still feels how she feels do you guys have any advice and navigating yeah i think you guys need to see a therapist she's been through hell you have somebody help her with her trauma yeah i mean i i'm not faulting that she has these feelings there i i would feel the same way yeah it's creepy oh it's weird it's creepy it's super weird but it's not it's also the the cause Yeah, if there was a break-in of, you know, if there were people breaking in Rachel's neighborhood. There were guys going in and knocking doors in and stuff in her neighborhood,

and they caught them. So everybody feels safer now in her neighborhood, okay? But that was not associated with a single family thing. If the next-door neighbor's 16-year-old stole his mother's diamond brooch and sold it to buy drugs, that doesn't make you scared unless he's going to come in your house to steal your diamond brooch. And so there's no, there's no logical reason to be afraid when you're walking except that you've been traumatized.

And that means if you move across town, you're going to be afraid when you're walking still. Does that make sense? Yes, it makes perfect thing. So I don't care if you move, but I don't want you to think moving is actually going to fix it. That's going to solve her fear. It's not going to solve it. So I would challenge you, I think I'm okay with you moving. I might move.

but I'm not going to move because I don't feel safe okay because that tells me that I haven't dealt with my trauma yet so I would sit down with a therapist I really would because I think your wife's really been traumatized it's fair well there was a murder in the neighborhood next to us and it was terrible but it was a family oriented thing we would be traumatized yeah it's so scary but also my kids will still ride their bikes in that neighborhood

because it wasn't it wasn't to your point It's not a drive-by shooting. Dangerous people around. Right. Yeah. It's not what's going on. So, but if, but if, but your wife has now internalized it is what I'm saying. And that's okay.

I understand. It's, it's a wound. Trauma is a, it's a valid thing to, for her to be scared and to have gone through this. But to extrapolate that to, if I live on the other side of town, I won't be afraid when this had nothing to do with the house. Then that's, that, that means you got something else to work on. Yeah. So I would see. If it was me, we would sit down together and see a therapist.

Do six months of that. And then if it's for some reason, it's still not good, then maybe try the move. I don't know. I might move anyway, just ickyness. I can move off of it. The memory. The memory is weird because it'll always be the murder house as long as you live there. I mean, it's weird.

So, yeah, I bought a house one time when I was buying and selling real estate that a guy had been killed in. And it was like it had a stigma, the neighborhood. But the people that bought it had no idea. And it wasn't, I mean, I didn't have any idea when I bought it. Sure. I didn't care. I was buying a foreclosure. Right, right.

And so, but it was, but it's still, there's an ickiness. I mean, life was ended there. It's weird. Mm-hmm. It's just strange. So the ickiness is a reason to move, but not, if you're actually using, I don't feel safe, then that tells me she needs some other stuff. She needs some other help with this.

And that's okay. It's not, it doesn't mean she's a bad person. It doesn't mean she's, you know, It just means she went through some trauma But don't take that with you to the other side of town And then go, well, I can never go outside the rest of my life and walk Because one time, 42 years ago there was a murder next door And I never dealt with my trauma

That's how stuff develops And so you don't want to late live there And I'm channeling my inner doctor John DeLondon I was going to say, you said internalize You were using some Using some John Deloney words Yeah, I know I was like man trauma goes with you

Well I've been hanging out with him I know from him He's smart dude. It's good. So, there we go. It's real, though. So real. It's so sad.

I'm sorry y'all been through that, Jake. I know. And I'm just glad everybody's okay. And what you don't want to do is make a stupid financial decision based on the height and emotion either. So just let some stuff settle. Yes. Be calm. Go do some work.

And then if you guys need to make a wise decision to move, do that. And ickiness is an okay decision. But that's nothing wrong with that. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only only only, only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.