The Ramsey Show - App - Debt-Free: All They Did Was Stop the "ish" (Hour 2)

Episode Date: May 6, 2019

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Max is starting us off this hour in Philadelphia. Max, welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave. Thanks for having me on. Sure. What's up? All right. Dave, I'm brand new to the show, but I feel like I'm in an unconventional situation, so I thought I'd call you for some advice. Sure.

I'm an artist, and I am in $40,000 in tax debt, and I have $55,000 in my pocket and $25,000 in a Roth IRA. And I'm looking at buying a duplex. Okay. And the duplex would almost pay for itself kind of thing on a month-to-month basis. But I would still have this $40,000 in tax debt, and I know that goes against your plan, so I'm asking you what. Yeah.

Well, the thing you want to learn is not necessarily whether something goes against my plan or not, but get behind it and say, okay, why would I say that? The thing you want to learn is not necessarily whether something goes against my plan or not, but get behind it and say, okay, why would I say that? All right? Yeah. And the reason I would say that is the IRS is one of the worst possible creditors you can have. They have unlimited power. You're messing with the KGB, buddy.

I mean, and they have high interest and high penalties. And number one, number two, number three is we do not find people building wealth. And all the data that we have of doing this for 30 years, on average, the person that builds wealth stays clear of debt. And that causes them to build wealth because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. What kind of artist are you? I do painting. Oh, cool. Okay. And I don't know if you meant music artist or what you meant, but okay.

And so what is your average income in a year typically? So that's kind of why I'm trying to feel backed into the situation. I normally make about $40,000 a year, but the last two years I did really well and made almost $100,000. Way to go. What was the difference? I definitely moved into a new market out here. Moved from Texas. You're kind of coming into your own. Your stuff's catching on, right?

Yeah, yeah. I started doing shows myself instead of having galleries representing. Oh, okay. So you're kind of figuring out the business side of it. Yeah. Is there any reason to think that the next two or three years aren't going to be 100? That is what I'm worried about is, you know, the majority of the people, my peers that have made it to this point, have fallen off really quickly.

Why do you think they fall off really quickly? They kind of run their well dry kind of thing of like they have people willing to pay for their work, so they make as much work as they can and then they sell it all. And as soon as, it's kind of like a stock deal. If people see your paintings not selling, they don't want to spend the money on them. So you need to create a balance between supply and scarcity and urgency. Absolutely. To not run the well dry. So you've observed that and you've watched it happen, and so you dial back on your supply enough to keep the scarcity going

so the well doesn't run dry oh by the way you keep looking for new wells while you're doing that which is what you did when you moved there and you doubled your income right okay let me tell you why in my experience of coaching people financially why i think their well runs dry they get lazy when they make a little money and they get sloppy with the business side of it and they they don't concentrate on how they got to the new level of success instead they just think it's going to run on forever and they don't observe they don't step back from the business side of it and observe what caused it and you seem to be ahead of that you seem to be an artist that has the ability to

look at the business side a little bit and see it. So all of that to encourage you and say, if I were in your shoes, which is how I answer questions here, I would write a check and pay off the KGB today. I'd be debt-free. That would feel good to get those people from around your neck. I would set up my future finances so that I never owe those people again, meaning I'm going to do my quarterly estimates and get with an accountant and set up a proper set of books for running your business. You are running a business. And then I would begin to save towards buying my first home or duplex if you want to do that.

It is a misnomer. I own quite a bit of real estate. I love real estate. But to say that real estate pays for itself is a misnomer. Those tenants pay sometimes. And they don't always pay, and sometimes they don't pay and they stay in your property. Oh, and they tear it up while they're there. So this becomes a negative event.

It's not like this automatic thing that i can just buy a duplex so i don't ever have to worry about a house payment because somebody else is going to take care of everything it is a lot more to it than that and so uh it's okay to buy rental property i don't have any issue with that um but it's not as much of a easy thing oh it'll just pay for itself thing as a lot of people kind of feel like with their first property it's going to be. You discovered landlording is actually work like a lot of things. And being kind with people and grace-filled with people, meanwhile being firm with people.

And you're going to pay your payments on time, and you're not going to have a cat in my house. You know, you just have to talk these things through with them and work with them. And, oh, you've got a horrible situation? Well, we give you a little bit of a break here but you have to get yourself in a financial position that you can do those things and be kind and firm and fair all at the same time and we are very firm and very kind we never raise our voice even when we're evicting you and so um but you have to kind of get that callous built that part of business built and i really don't want you getting in the rental business while you're still trying to figure out

the art business i think i'd just be a renter and go make a big pile of money and buy you a house and go make a big pile of money and then later on when things are just ripping and roaring if you want to go buy some rentals i would would. But today, I wouldn't distract yourself from what's important, which is your art and the business behind your art. I think I'd focus all of my guns on that and I'd pay off the IRS today. That's if I was in your shoes. I'm not saying never buy real estate. I'm saying think about when and those are my reasons, my why I tell you to do that. Because I think that's your shortest route to wealth, which is what I'm helping you with.

Because if you will live like no one else, later you can live and give like no one else. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major health care costs. Christian Health Care Ministries is the original health cost-sharing ministry. A Better Business Bureau-accredited organization, CHM members share to pay each other's medical bills.

It's not insurance. It's Christians financially and spiritually supporting each other. It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years. And our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. A couple of things going on around here this week you can participate in for free. There were over 6 million homes sold last year.

That is a lot of houses. And I'm sure not all of them went smoothly. That's why we have real estate agents, mortgage companies, so forth, we recommend so that you buy a home, you get the right way without all the crazy stuff. And to help us get even better, we want to hear from you. We want to hear your thoughts on getting a mortgage and your thoughts on buying a home. We want to take a survey here. What makes it painful? What makes it less painful, painless?

So text the word survey to 33 789 we want to hear from you if you've done a mortgage or and or bought a home this year survey text that word to 33 789 the second thing that's going on is this week we are having one of our financial coach master training webinars It's this Thursday, May the 9th at noon Central Time. Now, what is this? People wanting to learn how to be coaches to help people. If you ride along in the car answering the questions before I can, then you're already almost in coach mode because you can't keep yourself from helping people with this stuff.

And it's how I learned. And so, you know, you can learn from me listening here on the air but you can go through our financial coach master training and become one of our coaches to learn how to do that we uh are having a free webinar thursday may the ninth at noon and uh among the people on the webinar two are going to get free enrollments to the coaching coach training program so how do you do that well text the word coaching to 33 789 and that'll get you help you get registered for the may 9th webinar coaching to 33 789 another text both to 33 789 one survey one's coaching. Zarina is in Raleigh. Oh, and I hit the wrong button. All right, come on, Dave.

All right, there we go. Zarina is in Raleigh. Hi, Zarina, how are you? Hi, Mr. Ramsey, I'm good, and yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I need some sound advice for myself and my husband. We are newlyweds.

We've been married for six months, and now we are looking at combining our finances, but he is a little bit nervous. Together, we have a total of $137,000 in student loans, where mine is over $111,000, and his is a lot less. Did he know this when you got married? Yes, sir, he did.

Did he say the vows at the altar that said, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge? Yes, sir, he did. Did he mean it? I hope so. Then why are your finances not combined? Because he's nervous about my family and how I handle my finances with them.

You give your family money without talking to your husband? Well, before we got married, I used to live with my parents, so I pay for half of the mortgage and I pay for other bills. Still? And still, yes, sir. After you got married, you pay half the mortgage for somebody else when you have $111,000 in student loan debt? Yes, sir. Why?

Because my parents are in their 80s and they don't work. Do they not have Social Security? We're not from this country, so no, sir. Okay. Did your husband know that you were obligated to take care of your 80-year-old parents when you got married? He did, but he also would like some help from my siblings, and that's one part where I'm nervous to talk to my siblings about it. I'm not. It's overdue. I'm nervous to talk to my siblings about it.

I'm not. It's overdue. I agree with your husband. He would like to combine our finances, but because of the situation that I'm in, he doesn't know how to go about doing that. Yeah. Well, the way he would go about it is that the two of you come into agreement on what you are willing to do to support your parents. When you lived there, it was perfectly logical that you took care of half the mortgage because you were a roommate with them. Now that you don't live there anymore and you have your own household,

it now becomes a charitable act to aging parents that you take care of the mortgage, which should be shared with siblings. I agree with him. Yes, sir. Yesterday, like before you got married, this should have been talked about to your siblings. I'm moving out, and we're all taking care of mom and dad's splitsies. Yes, sir. That's where I have to start doing that. Yeah, and I think you agree to do that.

So you think your siblings aren't going to want to take care of your parents? I'm sure that they would if they could, but all of them. I don't come from a financially stable household. We were never taught how to save or do any of that. So everyone is working paycheck to paycheck. Gotcha. And how much does it take to support your mom and dad? It would be about $2,000 U.S.

Are they in the U.S.? Yes. Okay. Per month? My siblings, most of them are not. Okay. $2,000 U.S. per month? Yes, that's covering four kids.

And what is your household income, you and your new husband? Our household income after tax is $80,976. Okay, so you're making about $102,000, $103,000, right? Yes, sir. Okay, well, that's pretty good news. And your siblings, how many of them are there? I have seven in total. Okay.

Well, here's what it sounds like if I'm at your house. You guys have to talk this through, okay? We can't put your parents in the street. No. That is not an option. No. Okay. Do your parents have any income or any assets?

Not in the U.S. Okay. Do your parents have any income or any assets? Not in the U.S. Okay. What income and assets do they have outside the U.S.? If they went back home, they have their own property, and they don't have much expenses there. Right. And so where is home? Billy, Central America. Okay.

And what is that property worth were they to sell it? Probably about $60,000 U.S. And that would take care of about 30 months. Yes, but I have one brother living there, so we can't sell that. Oh, we can sell it. He can move and rent. It's not his property. This is so, I mean, listen, I understand taking care of your parents, and I want you to be doing that.

I don't want to put old people in the street. That is not my heart. But I agree with your husband that there's a toxic thing going on here, and the only one that's getting ridden is you. Yes. Nobody else is doing what they're supposed to do in this whole story. Your parents aren't selling their property. Your brothers and sisters aren't chipping in what they can chip in. Now, if I were your husband, I would say, listen, I am fine helping to support them as long as everybody puts in something.

Not necessarily equal, because I understand they're in a different country. They don't necessarily have the income. But everybody puts in something. I don't care if it's fifty dollars everybody puts in something and the property back home is being sold yes sir let's pretend you were broke what would they do we don't have to pretend no i mean what that's true because you got 111111,000 in student loan debt. But I'm saying let's pretend you didn't have any options here to participate. What would happen to mom and dad?

They would sell the property back home to keep from being in the street or they'd move back home and live in that property, one of the two, wouldn't they? Yes. Ta-da. Okay. And once we combine our finances and get that out, what would be your best advice for us to tackle this huge loan that we have? Head on as fast as you can, living on nothing.

It's going to be somewhat slowed by the money you use to help take care of your parents. And I suggest to your husband that he agree to something where you do participate in taking care of your parents if the property is sold and the other siblings participate at some level but if they're all going to leave it all on you i'm going to leave it all on them and let them figure it out because i think they're being stubborn and milking you like you're a cow i think everybody everybody's got a place to play here, and nobody's playing but you.

So if I'm your husband, I would have to be willing to take care of your mom and dad, but not when no one else is participating, including your mom and dad, by not selling the property because your brother's living in it. He needs to go get a place to live. That's what he needs to do. Or they need to move back there and live with him.

That would work, too. Maybe that's a better idea. It's up he needs to do. Or they need to move back there and live with him. That would work, too. Maybe that's a better idea. It's up to y'all. I don't care. But you just wholesale taking care of them is not proper. I do agree with your husband on that. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Brent and Courtney are with us. Hey, guys, how are you?

Hi, Dave. We're doing great. Welcome. Real good. Thank you. Good to have you guys. Where do you live? Erie, Pennsylvania.

Oh, cool. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. And all the way down here to do a debt-free screen. Welcome. Real good. Thank you. Good to have you guys. Where do you live? Erie, Pennsylvania. Oh, cool. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. And all the way down here to do a debt-free screen. Absolutely. How much have you paid off? $70,000. All right.

And how long did this take? 18 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? $70,000 to $75,000. Very good. Very cool. What do you all do for a living?

We're actually both social workers. Cool. What kind of debt was the a living? We're actually both social workers. Cool. What kind of debt was the $70,000? Student loan. All of it? Yep. Wow, just like that. Yeah.

Yep. How did you do that in 18 months? Okay, you ready for a story? I am. I'm ready. Okay, so we were doing the debt-free snowball. Dave-ish. We were doing it Dave-free snowball. Dave-ish. We were doing it Dave-ish.

Ish. Gotcha. We were ishing. And all the while, we're paying off actually other debt, too, credit card debt and stuff. This is before. And all the while, we're pouring money into savings at the same time. Started the IRA. Yeah.

We actually got done with some other debt. Got done with Baby Step 3. We actually had twice the amount we needed there. I mean, we really Baby Step 3'd it there. Gotcha. And then we started off our Baby Step 4 as well. So the only thing we didn't touch... So you're just making up your own thing.

Pretty much, yep. A little bit, a little bit. The only thing we didn't touch was the student loan because we were doing the loan forgiveness program Pretty much, yep. A little bit. A little bit. The only thing we didn't touch was the student loan because we were doing the loan forgiveness program. Oh, okay. Now, I think the whole time we were kind of, something wasn't really sitting right with us.

I got through a couple years of doing this loan forgiveness and then I started to hear all of a sudden these stories and seeing these stories on social media about people who completed their obligations and the federal government were like, you know, no thank you. They were refusing to forgive the loan. So obviously that was causing some concerns with me. Yeah, I think. Yeah, obvious, red flag. So we decided that we were going to revisit this. And we kind of mulled it back, you know, hem-hawed about it. But I decided that I was going to start listening to the podcast. And shortly after that, I was listening to one. And you had actually addressed this very question

about whether you should do loan forgiveness, you know, the whole thing. And you went on a tirade about it. I mean, I think you said the word... Not me! Oh, you said the word stupid about 32 times or more. I'm not even sure. So I'm listening to this, and I went home to my wife, and I played it for her,

and we were kind of like, all right, I guess that's our answer. You know, we got to, we got to knock this out of the park. He wasn't unclear. He was not unclear. It was very obvious. Yep. So how much did you have in your emergency fund?

We had 20 plus, 20 grand. 25, I think. 25, yeah. So you chunk all of that on it or all of it but a thousand? We took two separate payments. We took all but a, yeah, all but a thousand we took in two separate payments we took all but a yeah all but a thousand and then just threw it on and then we just you know from there tightened up the budget you know eliminated some things um and uh and you did the other 50 grand or so in in 18 months exactly yeah those numbers make sense okay yeah yeah you still were on beans

and rice though yeah yeah we were cut down a lot. Everywhere we could. So how does it feel to be free? Anvil, like off of my shoulders. Incredible. How long have you two been out of school? Well, I've been in and out of school for a while, but I graduated with my master's degree in 2014. Okay, so five years ago. Yeah. How long have you all been married?

Five years. Six years. Six years in ago. Yeah. How long have y'all been married? Five years. Six years. Six years in July. Sorry. So the answer is you've never been debt-free while you were married. Correct. And even long before that. Oh, yeah.

I lived with debt. My father tried to instill these principles into me when I was young, and I just didn't listen to him for some stupid reason. But I'm sure he's, you know, God rest his soul, he's looking down and saying, you finally did it, stupid. So me and your dad are cousins. Well, he shared a lot of the same principles that you teach, Dave. I love it.

You guys did so great. You've got to be proud of yourself. We are, absolutely. Does it affect when you're doing social work? Does having done this yourself affect how you view some of the cases? They can do this. I think you can do life. It doesn't matter what type of income.

Everybody thinks you have to be the doctor or the lawyer. But too many people think they're controlled by outside circumstances. You just have to buckle down. Whether it's just a relational issue, a financial issue, a physical issue, there's a lot of controllables you can control. I think the idea

that I can control parts of my destiny, enough of it that my destiny is completely affected, that I'm going to go do those things and it works out. I think that's a big message of hope. Absolutely. Speaking of hope. Absolutely. Yeah, I really agree.

Absolutely. And speaking of hope, we actually did end up leading an FPU. We coordinated a course that we just wrapped up a couple weeks ago. So shout out to the FPU guys. I know a couple of them are listening. So was that fun? It was a blast. And we kept telling them, we're going to do this, and you can do it, too.

So there was that hope theme again. Absolutely. You're the walking testimony, man. That's great. Yep. Way to go, you guys. Thank you. Who was your biggest cheerleader?

Actually, probably our friends Tim and Amy. They came with you? They're here. They were our financial peace coordinators. Absolutely. They got the ball rolling for us. Way to go, Tim and Amy. Love it.

They did their scream about six years ago. Wow, cool. So, yeah scream about six years ago. Wow. Cool. So, yep. They came with us to celebrate. Well, you can't tell them it can't be done. Exactly. No whining allowed with Tim and Amy.

It's like. I love it. Absolutely. Way to go, you guys. Thank you. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. That is the next chapter in your story coming up for sure. Absolutely. And you are. We're very proud of you.

You're heroes. Thank you. Well done. Very well done. Brent and Courtney Erie, Pennsylvania. $70,000 paid off in 18 months, making $70,000 to $75,000. All they did was stop the ish. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! And the crowd goes wild! I love it. I love it. I love it. Congratulations, you guys.

Very well done. Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. That's 888-825-5225. Adrian is with us in St. Louis. Hi, Adrian. What's up?

Hi, Mr. Ramsey. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Well, at the moment, I'm kind of lost and overwhelmed. I'm getting conflicting advice from different people. My fiance and I just started a financial peace class. Good.

But we're struggling trying to figure out the budget and how to get our baby step one started. We're both working full time, and I'm also trying to do a couple side jobs as well, and we just don't seem to be able to get any traction yet. When are you getting married? Haven't set a date yet. His annulment through the church is still in process, and we'll set a date after that point. Gotcha. Okay. Well, your finances are separate until you're married because you're not married.

Right. But we have done our... Yeah, there's not a we. I mean, you can run a single budget that the two of you look at, but you don't pay his bills. He doesn't pay your bills. We have been operating out of joint accounts, though. Okay. I wouldn't be until you're married.

Anyway, aside from that, then, how do we get the budget rolling? What is your income? I make about $59,000. $69,000? $69,000? $59,000. $59,000. What does he make?

His is a little more variable. It's right around $20,000 to $22,000. $59,000. What does he make? His is a little more variable. It's right around $20,000 to $22,000. He works in retail right now. So why is he not making any money? It's a job he's had for a long time. He needs to get a new job. His job sucks. That's your problem right there.

He's not making any money. He can't pay his bills in a second you drive that's exactly what's going on here he's got a career that needs to shift immediately if not sooner and he needs to take three part-time jobs until he gets that career shifted that's what's going on that's that's that you have an income issue that's the thing when you combine your situation which is not yet combined. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Anthony is in Youngstown, Ohio. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Anthony.

Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Okay. So I started the Baby Steps a few months ago. I've read the Total Money Makeover, and I'm actually coming into one of my last debts and I had a question. So I just financed the mortgage. I did not put 20% down, so I'm paying

the PMI. The last debt that I have is my wife's student loan, which is approximately $35,000. And I wanted to know if it was smarter to take that money and refinance the mortgage and get the PMI off or just go ahead and finish up baby step two. The only way you get your loan to value down below where there's no PMIs to use the money you would have paid on the student loan? Do you currently have enough equity to do away with PMI? No, I don't. I would be saving up instead of paying off.

No, I'm just paying on student loan. Okay. Just to get the student loan gone. When you get up to Baby Steps 456 and you start beating on the house, you're going to get the loan to value down to where you can refine and get rid of the PMI that way. Oh, I see. It's a Baby Step 6 thing. It's part of paying off your house, in other words.

It's not part of Baby Step 2 where you've got the other debts. Okay. That makes sense. It's a good question, though, because that just shows you're thinking and you're being intentional. I'm trying to. You know, that's the trick is people just pay attention, right? Yeah. You know, you're really focused on what to do and you're thinking through it so it's a valid question but now we leave pmi and anything associated with the

mortgage and baby step six now if you could refinance your home today because your loan to value is where it is and get rid of the pmi that is not a baby step issue because that doesn't cost any money out of pocket you could roll the refinance costs in. Let's say you owed 70% of value. You could roll your refinance costs in and get rid of PMI. Or you probably could get an appraisal if you have a conventional mortgage and get the PMI dropped. Now, FHA, you got PMI forever. Same thing with a VA loan.

So you might want to refinance in those cases. But you just have to run the numbers out. But you could refinance without any cash out of pocket. And if you could do that, then the question becomes independent of the baby steps. But while it's actually affecting you paying off the student loan, we're choosing between PMI and student loan. We'll choose student loan. Jordan is with us in Canada. Hi, Jordan.

Welcome to the Daveave ramsey show hi there i just got a question about my my business sure okay so i'm a proprietor of electrical contractor and i've got twenty thousand dollars credit card debt of you know buying material and everything and i'm just wondering if i incorporate my business and i carry that credit card to my business so it's not on my personal debt. Your bank in Canada might do that. In the U.S., they're not doing that. You're going to have a personal guarantee on that credit card in the U.S., and that means that legally there is no business debt. It's all personal debt.

It's only in your mind that it's business debt because you use the debt for the business. And so it just becomes part of your debt snowball, which is what I think it is. I think even if you incorporate, they're not going to let a business of your size carry a credit card without the guarantee of the owner, meaning it becomes personal debt. Okay. Yeah, that would be normal anyway. There may be a nuance in Canada that I'm not aware of. I'm not an expert on Canadian details, but conceptually, that's what it would be in the U.S.,

and I suspect that's what you're going to find there as well. Jennifer is with us in Springfield, Illinois. Hi, Jennifer, and welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, thank you. Sure, what's up? Okay, I have a question. My daughter started school last fall, community you. Sure, what's up? Thanks for taking my call. Okay, I have a question. My daughter started school last fall, community college. Great.

And she had to, yes, she had to take out a loan for a vehicle. Why? It was just a small loan, like $3,200. Oh, crap. Because, well, she didn't have any money. But since then, she's gotten a better job. And they told her when she took the loan out at the bank that she could not pay it off early because she didn't have any credit. Sure she can.

Yes, that's what I told her. There's no such thing as you can't pay a loan off because you don't have credit. That's a banker trying to bully a young person around and saying you shouldn't pay it off because if you pay the payments and give us all the interest, then you will build your credit. That's advice. It's not a regulation. Okay. Okay. Exactly.

It's advice that was given so strongly your daughter thought it was a law. Yes. And she's young, so she didn't know. But my question is, how do we help her establish her credit? Why would she establish credit? Well, I don't know. For a future. So that she could get into debt?

Well. Because that's the only reason I know to establish credit is so that you can get into debt. It's a dog chasing its tail. It's I go into debt so that I can establish credit. Why? So that I can go into debt so that I can establish credit. Why? So that I can get into more debt and establish more credit.

Why? So that I can build tall buildings in the skyline that i don't get to own called banks yeah that's true yeah so i don't establish credit my credit is zero i don't have one it's indeterminable they're not sure i'm alive oh okay they think i'm a martian but you know what if you don't have any debt you end up with money because you don't give it all to car payments and student loan payments and MasterCard. Who named that anyway? Cindy's with us in Houston, Texas. Hi, Cindy. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave. Nice to speak to you. You too. I have a question my 82 year old father and mom recently moved in with us and me and my husband are not in agreement i feel like he should be contributing to the household expenses my husband doesn't think he should. So how did he move in without you two being in agreement first? Exactly. It kind of was thrown on as he was either going to come here or he was going to be in the nursing home. So it was like we had 24 hours to make a decision and not to put him in a nursing home.

We brought him home. So you guys did not have a unity prior to making a decision this large, which was a marital mistake on your all's part. So now you've got marital discord and an 88-year-old man in the crossfire. We sure do. Yeah. And so who was going to pay for the nursing home if he went? It was going to come out of his retirement and his money that he had okay

so he should contribute out of his retirement and the money that he has to your household income i agree what is your household income today it is a 94 000 what's your what's your net worth your you and your husbands um well we're not i mean there isn't i mean we're 95 000 in debt so oh my god you're 95 000 in debt what's your income yes we're 94 our income yearly is 94 000 you're 94 in debt and you have a 94 income yep oddly enough okay all right that's confusing as crud. How old are you two? I am 50, and my husband's 49. And he has an 88-year-old father? Mm-hmm. Okay.

So he was 40 when he had him. Okay. Yes, he was. Okay. Does he have siblings, your husband? He does. But unfortunately, my husband is a sole care for her. Oh, I don't mind that.

And I think it's wonderful that you're taking care of his dad. I think that's all fine. The thing is that his brothers and sisters are profiting off of you while you're broke. Because you're supporting the care of this gentleman living with you. And he should pay you what he pays some portion of what he would have paid the nursing home that's fair that reduces his estate and thereby what brothers and sisters will get upon his passing but that is what would happen had he been in a nursing home as a matter of fact it would have been reduced even more and he would have had a different quality of life he gets the

wonderful thing of living with you guys yes yeah so i think it is fair for him to contribute something maybe not completely equal to um what the nursing home would have cost but free is not fair it's not right it's not right because when your father-in-law dies your brother your brothers and sisters-in-law are going to get more money that would have been in your pocket and you're $94,000 in debt. And that's not right because they're contributing nothing to his care. Zero. Zippo. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Correct. And so my brother and sister-in-law live next door to my father-in-law and do a wonderful job looking over him. And I would do anything for them because they have all of that on them. And I'm in the other end of the state. Sharon and I think they're amazing, and they will never bear any cost in excess of what the rest of us chip in because we are thankful they're there to take care of him, and that ought to be the position of this family.

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