The Ramsey Show - App - Debt Is an Anchor - Not a Tool! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: March 1, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's The Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, best-selling author of the book Redefining Anxiety, is my co-host today as we talk to you about your life and your money. So you've got questions about the people you're going to see this week known as crazy relatives. John's here. He's got a degree in counseling.

He cannot help you. I can tell you what I'm doing. That's all. Man. Oh, wait a minute. You just called your relatives crazy. Be careful there. It's a broadcast.

You know what? By this time, we all know those cats are out of the barn. They are what a minute. You just called your relatives crazy. Be careful there. It's a broadcast. You know what? By this time, we all know those cats are out of the barn. They are what they are. All right. Cats are out of the barn. Okay. All right. Good.

I didn't know you kept cats in a barn in Texas. I don't know what's in the barn in Texas. Okay. All right. Just checking. Just checking. The horse is out of the barn. Who comes out of the barn?

Cattle, usually. But what do I know? All right. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Let's move on from the farm animal anthology here, and we will talk to you about your life and your money. Diana is going to start us off in San Bernardino, California. How are you guys today? Great.

How can we help? Good. Well, I was calling. I might get emotional. Sorry. I'm a widow my husband died a year and a half ago and my kids um get a social security survivor benefit it's nine hundred dollars each a month until they're 18 my son is um 10 my daughter is eight and I just want to know how to be the best steward of that money for them. I myself, I'm a teacher.

Thankfully, through COVID and all of this, I still work. I make $92,000 a year, and I myself am on Baby Step 2. I'm trying to keep Sally Mae to the curb. Good, good. But I live on what I make, and I don't use that money for anything else, and I just want to know what to do with it for them. Okay. Wow, what a hard time you've been through.

I'm so sorry. Thank you. Well, my opinion on this is very strong, like most of my opinions. You spend way more than $900 per child per month to take care of those children. It takes more than that to buy food, lights, water, clothing, and so on for an individual in San Bernardino, California. And so if I were you you i would simply take that eighteen hundred dollars a month and make it part of your budget and your budget should take care of your family first food shelter clothing transportation and utilities and then it should start working on the future working your baby steps and you would save for kids college and you would save for

retirement and you'd work to pay off your home and this is all after you clear sally may to the curb but clearing sally may to the curb is a gift to your children because it puts you in a position then to send them to school and you save for that there is no law nor any ethic no nor any moral obligation for you to set this eighteen hundred dollars aside somewhere while you on the left side to set it over to the somewhere while you on the left side, set it over to the right while you on the left are starving to death. You're not starving at $92,000, but you're not like filthy rich or something either. Right. So your budget is tight enough, and I just put the $1,800 in there.

Same thing with child support. You're not obligated to set child support aside for children because you spend more, you single parents out there, you spend more on that kid than the child support is. Right. In every state in America, you spend more on that kid than the child support is. So it's not like you're getting rich off of child support, any of you out there that are living on this. So just mix it in as part of your budget. So I just want to give you the freedom to do that because you've got enough things on your plate without being shamed or guilted about this $1,800.

And Diana, sometimes when we're dealing with grief and it looks like you're about six months in to trying to reconfigure what your head and heart and world is going to look like for those two little kids and then COVID hit, and you've had to navigate this by yourself, right? Yes. There's this mythological notion that if you just follow these steps in the right order

and do the right things, that it will make the passing of someone that you love okay. And Dave is right. There is no magical use for this money. You'd give every penny of it back to have this guy back sitting at your kitchen table. You know that. We know that. And then we also have to recognize that's not going to happen. And so the next right thing to do is to work hard and diligently and intentionally on dealing with the loss of your husband.

It's going to take years and years and minutes and some minutes. Love those kids. And like you said, man, use this money as though it is part of your income and rock on and go from there. Because it is part of your income. That's right. That's what it's designed for. If the law was that it had to be set aside for children,

they would force you to set it aside for children. It doesn't. It comes to you to take care of your children. And the assumption in the law is accurate, is that a mom is going to take care of her kids. Right. And very few times does that assumption not play out. And we would call those bad parents, you know, which is a whole different issue. Getting out of debt, letting that pressure off of you, like taking that weight off of you, that's a whole different issue getting out of debt letting that that

pressure off of you like taking that weight off of you that's a gift to your kids right use that money get out of debt and mathematically it sets her up to be able to care for them in the next stages as well that's right and so this idea that somehow people have it in their head that it needs to be separated off or whatever and it's part of that magical grieving and that magical thinking there. Yeah, and another situation where the exact same question, the exact same answer comes up is someone gets divorced, they're getting child support, and then they get remarried. And so now they've got a household income that concerns step-parent,

step-father, step-mother, and then you're getting child support on the other side, and you've got an income from the other. Is it okay to mix that in? Yeah, it's absolutely mixed in. Because that step-parent is freaking writing checks taking care of these kids. That's right. That's part of the deal. They're paying for that roof over the head.

They're paying for that electricity. They're paying for that water bill when that kid flushes that commode 63,000 times. You know? And sticks the stuffed rabbit in there and it leaks for 24 hours or they never flush it's that one too oh yeah i see you had to go there i'm just trying to run up a bill you just got gross okay no man hey i'm living it i'm living it oh i wish they were flushing 63 times a day oh man you'd gladly pay the water uh no but yes but yes but yes well you're out in the country you're on a well aren't you yes i'm on a well there you go doesn't cost much all right so where

the cats are in the barn where the cats are in the barn in these uh tennessee barns right for the record for the record america i have a cat that's living in the barn. No. You're a cat guy? No, they just show up. You're a barn cat guy. I'm a dog guy. Okay, you're a barn cat guy.

Right. Cats belong in the barn. I'm the husband of a, I mean, the father of a son and a little girl, and they saw this barn cat, and such it is. Such as it is. And so the tragedy begins. So the tragedy has begun. Their dad's tough and raw. It's all unraveled.

The Grinch is my co-host to this hour. Very few principals. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Dr. John Deloney, two PhDs and can't figure out what to do with a barn cat. We'll be back on The Ramsey Show. Your number one wealth building tool is your income. For business owners, this comes as no surprise, as you're used to putting in extra hours and watching your bottom line. That's why Christian Healthcare Ministries or CHM is a great option for those who are faith

focused and budget conscious. CHM is not health insurance, rather it's a health cost sharing program. It's not harder, but it is different. To learn if CHM is a fit for you or your business, visit chministries.org slash budget. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, bestselling author of the book, Redefining Anxiety, is my co-host today here on the air. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Samantha is with us in Austin, Texas. Hi, Samantha. How are you? Better than I deserve. Good. How can we help? So I'm a first-year teacher. I started in January, and I got six weeks before this pandemic struck. But I'm actually doing quite well myself with finances. I was able to find a place

and everything settled down. I don't have any student debt. I own my car and I have like $35,000 that I'm not sure what to do with. Look at you. And yeah, I get about like $1,000 a month in my increased paycheck since they prorated it back when I started in January. So I'm living below my income needs. And so I was just wondering if I should do something with a 403B deferred tax option. My dad suggested stacking CDs, mutual funds. What would be the best thing to do for someone that's 22 years old? Way to go. Wow.

So you grew up in a household where they taught you how to do this, huh? I listened to you as a kid from my dad. Oh, financial peace baby. Okay. Very good. Well, I'm honored. I'm so proud of you. Well done.

I love meeting 22-year year olds Who are so unlike me When I was 22 Samantha You're making my heart Just swell Way to go You're saying she's wise I'm saying that

Sometimes Sometimes in these current times It's easy to get down On the world my kids inheriting And when I know There's Samantha's Running around out there We're going to be alright

Amen Good for you Samantha Amen You're a rock star kiddo very cool very cool thank you well we teach a thing called the baby steps that you have heard of and i'm going to walk you right through that i mean you've got your emergency fund out of that 35 000 that you set aside in the money market account and that's three to six months not including the emergency fund who are you samantha i don't even know this girl. Who is this woman? I don't know.

Who is this woman? All right, and so now you take the $35,000, and I'm going to earmark it for a future down payment on a home, and then I'm going to take 15% of your income and start investing that in 403B, 401K, or Roth IRAs, or some combination thereof in good mutual funds that have a long track record. First, does your 403b have a match? It does not have a match, and that's why I haven't started it. I was thinking maybe I should do a Roth IRA through my bank instead. No, you should go to SmartVestor Pro and get your Roth IRA because banks are sucky at investments. And so we want good investments, and you want to go into good mutual funds for your Roth IRA.

And what are you making a year? They just upped it to $50. Okay, so we need to do $7,500, so you can do $6,000 in your Roth. Okay, so that's easy. And then you could put like $100 a month in your 403B if you want to and some good mutual funds or $200 or whatever, and then just do your Roth IRA, and that will get you there. That will have you where you need to be as far as 15% of your income.

Above that, I'm going to continue, if you want to save even more, I'm going to just continue to add to the $35,000 as the down payment fund for your future home. I'm going to guess and say it might be three years for you to buy a house. And given that, I might put that in a mutual fund with your SmartVestor Pro as well. So go to DaveRamsey.com, click SmartVestor, and it'll drop down a list of the SmartVestor Pros in your area, the people with the heart of a teacher. And believe me, they will be as excited to meet you, Samantha,

as John and I have been because you're inspiring. You're amazing for 22 years old. So sit down with them. They'll help you get a roth ira started maybe even take your 403b options they'll help you pick some of those you'll have to go back to your school system to actually do the investment and then in addition to that they can help you place that 35 000 in a mutual fund or funds to grow it for the next three years or four years for a house fund, and that's a good way to do that. And, yeah, they'll help you do that in a way that doesn't eat you up with commissions

and also allows you to invest in something with low turnover so that you don't have a bunch of taxes on it or anything. Wow, you have got an amazing head start. If you keep on this track and you don't marry an idiot you're gonna i mean you will if you don't screw it up by doing that right i mean you're gonna be worth tens of millions of dollars should be a millionaire before she blinks yeah yeah and everybody listening to this you can do it you can grow a samantha you can do it it's possible you can all your children do not have to misbehave no you can grow a Samantha. You can do it. It's possible. You can. All your children do not have to misbehave.

No. You can grow a Samantha. It's possible. I've done it. I've got three of them. You've got three Samanthas. I do. I've got two Samanthas in training.

One of them is a long way. One of them I can see it happening and one of them... Well, the interesting one is the problem child became a Ramsey personality. Strong, loyal personality, big spender. That's right. Yeah. We wrote books about her spending habits, and now she writes books about her spending habits and sells millions of them. Go figure.

But, yeah, she's authentic, I think they say. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's what it is. So there you go. But, I mean, you can do it. You can do it. And kudos. Hats off to Dad and Mom there.

Mom and Dad. High five to them, too. You want to change your family tree? You cannot make enough money or invest enough money or build enough net worth to change your family tree if you don't teach the next generation to handle it. And they are watching, not listening. Not what you say, what you do. More is caught than taught, Rachel Cruz says.

Much to her credit. How do you act at to her how do you act at thanksgiving how do you act at christmas how do you spend how do you talk about gifts that you are happy about not happy about they're absorbing all of it and that's the person they're becoming yeah you can you can give a long speech and one eye roll can blow it off done that's right that's it michael is with us in san an, Texas. Hey, Michael, welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hi, John. It's a pleasure to talk to

you both. I'm a big fan. Thanks. How can we help? Yeah, so I have a lot of stuff upcoming in my life. I'm getting married. Yay! You don't sound real happy, Michael. Oh, yeah. I i'm sorry i'm just i'm just really nervous all right that's okay you get one of those it's okay we won't tell her

awesome so yeah uh i'm doing that getting married uh she's bringing in about two hundred thousand dollars in student debt um and she'll be graduating the year after so i'm just trying to get a sense of how should i plan for all those new responsibilities and at the same time on cash flowing a master's run run just kidding don't do that no shut up john she's gonna be a surgeon she is a doctorate in physical therapy for 200k well 160 to 200 you know it's a little bit of a living expenses it's a private institution yeah you think man for pt to make 80 grand right okay what is your master's what's your master's in? What's your master's in? Real estate finance. Why do you need a master's in real estate finance? What is that?

I'm hoping it'll help me along the road. Which road? Go sell houses. What road? I want to sell buildings instead. You want to do commercial real estate? Yes, I'm currently an analyst in a firm right now. Okay.

And I need to learn, essentially. Okay, all right. Well, in a firm right now. Okay. And paid to learn, essentially. Okay. All right. Well, that does make sense then. Yeah. My degree was in real estate specialization in finance, so I didn't do a master's, but I did. Yeah, I just didn't. Okay.

So what do you make? I make $23,000. You're an analyst in a commercial real estate firm? You make $23,000. You're an analyst in a commercial real estate firm? You make $23,000? Yeah, pay to learn. And essentially, 12 to 16 months, I switch over to the brokerage side. That's a little bitty spoon to dig out that big old hole y'all are in. That's why I'm calling.

Okay, so what you've got to do is we have to work on what's called the shovel-to-hole ratio. The shovel is your income. The hole you're in is $200K. And the two of you together start planning how you're going to make enough money to pay this off. And the more money you make, obviously, the faster you're going to pay it off. And I'm sorry, Michael, but that's the system. That's how it works. So I can't predict your income as a commercial broker in this world, particularly.

Yeah, this is scary. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage caleb is with us hey caleb how are you man i'm excellent how are you better than i deserve welcome where do you live fort worth texas oh good for you john always uh connects up with the Texans. 817. You know it. That a boy. There we go. So how much debt have you paid off, brother? $110,000.

Well, I guess $110,695.02 to be exact. How long did this take? 46 months. Wow. And your range of income? $60,000 to $72,000. Cool. What do you do for a living?

High school band director. All right. Good for you. What kind of debt was the $111,000? A little bit of everything. Undergrad, graduate, interest on those student loans, credit cards, car, French horn, and then a loan from the bank of mom and dad. Ooh.

Everybody's in line. Yeah. Everybody. You had a long line, too. It was a long line. The French horn debtors are fierce, right? Dude. You don't want to mess with them.

They'll break your knees, man. Don't want to mess with the French horn mafia. So what happened 46 months ago that lit you up, man? I was in grad school, already deep in more debt. And one of my friends put on her Facebook that she read this book called Total Money Makeover. And it sparked my interest. I reached out to her and then I got the book actually in January of 2016. And it was really stressful because I didn't have an income. So I wanted to do all these things, but I had to wait until I had a full income. So for about six to seven months, I was living off of my student loans, like agonizing, waiting for a real job to finish school and get an income to get going on it. So as soon as you hit the ground after school, you took off. Yeah, over $2,000 a month.

I did everything in the book to pay it off quickly. Man, amazing. Congratulations. Thank you. That was a big mountain to climb. Yeah, a lot of vacations that I didn't go on or things that I didn't buy, an old truck that I kept way too long. Almost four years.

Yeah. And so you're what, in your late 20s? How old are you? Yeah, we'll go with that. No'm 30 31 okay 31 well close enough yeah and so uh yeah like you're everybody that your friends are out doing all kinds of stuff and you're working to get out of debt yeah a lot of my friends were going vacations or even if i could go on like a wedding trip um i wouldn't do the extra things that they were all out doing i was just happy to be at the wedding and you know pay for the rental tax but it's like we're going rafting i was like like i gotta say no at some point guys i gotta pay off my debt eventually so yeah way to go so band directors are similar to football coaches right especially texas you're

yeah you're inspiring young people you're getting them to to think to understand they're they're bigger than they have bigger dreams. They can accomplish more than they thought they had. They go past limitations. How has this journey impacted how you impact high school kids? This is a metaphor. A lot of my students will kind of laughingly roll their eyes, but this has become a metaphor. One of my students when I was teaching in Houston suggested that I start a YouTube channel.

I would just make little YouTube videos about how to budget how to think about money um the future millionaire band director uh it's got 800 subscribers dave watch all right and thank you man i like the title too yes i like the title a lot and so that kind of now i'm doing like a little mini series about like getting students ready for college and what kind of questions to ask how to go to college for free there are still music scholarships out there things like that we're going to double your subscription today let's hope so so uh tell everybody again what's the youtube channel what's it called the future millionaire band director all right everybody go sign up and watch it it's got everything it's got high school band it's got college advice and financial advice i mean what more could you want? Nothing. That's awesome, man.

Way to go. Very cool. So now that, I mean, the impressive part about your number is not only the height and the amount, which is huge, that you knocked out, but the fact that you stick with something for 46 freaking months. Most people in America can't stick with something 46 seconds. They can't be married 46 months.'d you do this man well um my twin sister always says that i'm like super obsessive when i do something i just jump like all in and uh this is one of those things that

i became obsessive about when i was living in houston my family's from dfw so i would drive to see them listen into the podcast obsessing over my every dollar budget like where can i where can i like shrink the budget where can i fix it and uh what habit do i need to change can i carpool to work do i need to move out into a bigger rent house so i can pick up another roommate to lower the rent it was like every part of the budget got a good look at least once or once or twice a week to figure out how to you know scrape some off you know you went truly gazelle intense that obsessive idea this thing i'm going i'm going to do this and really i I'm going to put the blinders on. And you really don't hear the negative voices much when you get that fired up.

Yeah, I was fortunate enough that my family was like, you're crazy, but go for it. But you're ours. Yeah. You are crazy. And my students were also super supportive. Anytime I would bring my lunch, they'd be like, ah, look at you, Mr. Shoe. You're taking care of your finances. It was really cool. Way to go, man. So someone coming out of grad

school with a pile of debt right now, like you did 46 months ago, is listening. What do you tell them the secret to getting out of debt is? I remember reading one of the chapters of your book, and for me, I had to first understand that debt wasn't a tool. I used to tell my students, like, way back in the day that you had to take out student loans if you wanted to use that as an investment in your future. Because I thought debt was a tool to get you somewhere. And I think that if anybody's going to have to pay off their debt, they're going to have to understand that, first and foremost, debt is not a tool. And if they don't understand that concept, they will never get out of the gate, even. And I've got a lot of friends who say that they're going to pay off their car or their credit card,

but I'm going to keep my student loans for forever. I have friends who have told me that they're just going to be in debt for the rest of their life. So they have to understand, first and foremost, that debt is not a tool. It's an anchor. Yeah. Yeah, that's a big one. That's a big one. And then you said you were obsessive, and that's what enabled you to persevere and stick with something almost four years.

That's so impressive, so impressive. Very cool. I'm so proud of you, man. Well done. Very, very well done. Who were your biggest cheerleaders? For sure, my dad was always super supportive. My family was really, really supportive, even if they were making fun of me.

My coworkers who I went to work with every day, we would go out to lunch once a week, and sometimes I would not have budget anymore to go out to lunch, and so I would just bring my lunch to wherever we went out to eat, and they were always super supportive. My students gave me lots of positive vibes. My boyfriend was super supportive of the whole thing, and so

now anytime I offer to buy dinner, he's always super shocked. He's like, oh, we're going to loosen the budget a little bit for that. Well, well done done sir very very proud i'm proud of you man thank you we got a copy of chris hogan's book for you everyday millionaires and that definitely is the next chapter in your story so we're excited for you well done well done caleb from fort worth texas 111 000 paid off in 46 months, making $60,000 to $72,000. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Yeah! Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo! Well done, well done, well done. Great job, man. That's a lot of money over a long period of time.

46 months. And I got to tell you, man, he's right. You do have to become obsessive. That was a really good analysis on his part. 46 months, Dave. 99% of Americans quit their New Year's resolutions already, right? Yep. I just made that stat up, by the way, because it supported what I was trying to say here.

But you just keep going. 88% of the statistics are made up on the spot. That's right. But you just keep going and going and going. What a way to persevere. You know, I remember the first time I ever actually went in a gym and got a personal trainer many, many years ago. I would have loved to have been there for that. Yeah, you wouldn't have either.

It was ugly. It was really ugly. But we couldn't get on the treadmill and stuff because there's too many people, right? The machines were busy. Everything's busy, busy, busy. And it was like second, third week of January. And he goes, don't worry about it. Valentine's Day, they'll all be gone.

They'll be gone. It's the Valentine's Day curse. Forty-five days, the gym is empty again. People can't stick with it. Valentine's Day, they'll all be gone. They'll be gone. It's the Valentine's Day curse. 45 days, the gym is empty again. People can't stick with it 45 days. 46 months. Wow. You know, Caleb stuck with this. And I like what he said about it's all of it. It was the personal decision to listen to things and then to practice and then to have accountability and have friends and have students who are watching him to make sure it was all of that all together right it's everything

it's not just one thing or this thing or one big great new rotten speech and then you're like i'm retarded it's all of it over and over and over again the the it is a marathon it is not a sprint and uh the good news about someone that's done it like he like caleb did is he he will never go back no man it's over. To stick with it 46 months, you have to be changed inside. Love it. Not just have a cursory drive-by with the ideas. And he gave a picture to who knows how many young people.

That's what sacrifice looks like. That's what bringing your lunch looks like. That's what that old truck looks like. Amen. And they got a new picture of what debt-free living can look like. This is The Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thanks for joining us, America. This is the Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Fred is with us. Fred is in Idaho Falls, Idaho. Hey, Fred, what's up? Hey, what's your recommendation for long-term care insurance? You usually recommend it at 60. Statistics or history, you probably wouldn't use it for 20-plus years should you invest that premium money into a good growth account and insure your self-insure.

Well, let me pull up my cheat sheet here on your statistics because they're wrong um but i don't have memorized so i'm going to flip through my cheat sheet here 70 of the people over 65 will require some type of long-term care before their death seven out of ten americans will spend some time in a nursing home uh at some point um so i uh the numbers that i have seen and I don't have them on this cheat sheet, but let's see if I can find anything here. The average age of a claimant is 79, to your point. So 71% of claimants are women. 51% are due to cognitive issues. that was a new one i hadn't

seen before okay so uh the numbers that i've seen and they're not on this sheet and so i'm doing this from memory fred are that uh it's less than one half of one percent of the people prior to 60 use nursing homes and so never buy a long-term care insurance and policy until you're 60 but when i looked at the stats the reason i came up with that number was or the reason i came up with that as my guideline for folks because i do believe in long-term care insurance unless you have five million dollars or more in net worth because you can self-insure then uh but i uh that but the percentage increased, likelihood of use of a nursing home after age 60, the percentage increased, the graph was such a steep curve. Like every minute you're over 60, your chances of going increase dramatically.

And so if you have a substantial net worth over 60 like two five million plus you'd self-insure but otherwise i'm going to tell you to get a policy uh but you're you would be right the older you get the higher the likelihood is you're going to use it and that my cheat sheet says the average age of someone using it is 79 the other thing that can happen in your 60s even if you're not using it until your 70s, is you have a higher probability of losing your health just due to getting old and thereby not qualifying to get a policy. That's what I was wondering. Is it cheaper to buy in if you buy in at a younger age?

Well, that's why people want people to do it at 40. It's much cheaper to buy at 40 or 50, but your likelihood of using it is so low that the premiums don't offset. So it doesn't work out. So insurance companies are pretty good at math. They do a good job about figuring out that premium. If you have an insurance premium that's cheap, there's a reason. It's a very low probability of the event happening, whatever the event is, right? And so it doesn't cost much.

Well, that's because it ain't going to happen. That's what you're looking at. So statistically, I remember clearly the conversation my parents and I had when they told us, I think it was for Christmas. That's what we got for Christmas. They gave you a long term care policy. They got themselves. I know. And that was giving you a gift. And it was we all it was just this. Right. Because because me and my brother and sister had talked about it. Hey, what's going to happen if? And we had talked to my dad and my mom about it. And they circled up and said, it's going to lean on us a little bit budget-wise, but it's the right thing to do.

And it was a gift. Yeah, it is. And 70% of the ladies outlive their husbands. And so if you're listening out there, married couple, ladies, the typical scenario that's tragic is Papa goes in the nursing home. There's $200,000 in savings. He burns through it, cracks and scrambles the nest egg, and dies. And then Mama's left to live 10 more years with no money because it all went to the nursing home.

And so that's why you get long-term care insurance policies. It's for you ladies,-term care insurance policies. It's for you ladies, actually, statistically speaking, anyway. And yet the highest number of claimants is female, but that also would be after their husband pre-deceases them. 75% of the husbands pre-decease their wives. That makes sense, because when I used to visit my grandparents in the nursing home, there's always that guy. So he must be in the other percent, right? The one guy that just thinks he's 88. Well, he's Casanova.

That's right. He's 88. Because he's a rare bird, yeah. He's waving that cane around. It's like he's attending a girl or girl's college and got in. Yeah, he's got it made. I was going to say, brother, you are not that handsome. No, he's just rare.

Which is also an advantage if you don't have the other one. John's with us in Louisville, Kentuckyentucky hey john how are you hey dave thanks so much for taking my call sure okay i'll just get to the point here real quick um my son needs braces if we pay the braces up front we will save $500, okay, out of $4,600. So it'll be able to pay for $4,100. Now, we have $3,700 in savings. We have $4,500 in the bank so we could pay for that cash. Now, she wants to pay for it to save the $500. I don't want to, I want to pay the thousand dollars and then we can make, I think it's $188 payments for 20 months because my furnace is 17 years old and my car has almost 300,000 miles on it. And I drive 27 miles one way every day. Um, and I, I just need some wisdom.

Okay. Well, um, I've been doing this show 28 years. I've never told anybody to borrow money yet. And this is borrowing money. So this is borrowing money. Yes, I've got to tell her she's right. Well, if you want me to blow the whistle and throw the flag, I can. But you're right, too.

I mean, you've got some valid concerns there. So what are some ways we can look at how we get to these other issues, the furnace and the car, because we're taking you dangerously low on cash. And so if we're going to do this for this child now and not wait six months, which probably wouldn't be the end of the world if you did i'm not in i'm not an expert on dentistry but i suspect they would probably still be able to straighten their teeth if you wait six months and um which might be a plan and during that six months pile up some more cash to where it gives all of you some more comfort uh that's probably what the

ramses would have done but if you don't do that then what we do have to do is we have to put the house on the whole home on beans and rice rice and beans as if you had a bunch of credit card debt or something and you're being gazelle intense because you've got some known things coming at you so your analysis of that is correct i mean that furnace is going to go out and that car is going to go there's not any question in your mind or my mind. I just don't know when. It's not a matter of if. It's just when.

Is it six months or is it 18 months? But it's not eight years. I never even thought about waiting. I mean, it sounds silly. I never thought about waiting six months. He's 11 1⁄2 and has got all those permanent teeth. I've never thought about waiting six months. I'm sure the doctor is going to tell you that I'm a quack because when it comes to dentistry i am i have no

qualifications whatsoever except i'm a dad that bought a couple of sets of braces over the years i did i did do the same exact analysis and they they make it almost sound like you're not borrowing money it's more like you're renting these braces but they'll give you a discount for paying the rental up front like they're gonna re-rent them after you give them back. But anyway, I don't know. But to me, I looked at it with our two that had braces as debt, and I just prepaid it like your wife is suggesting. But I think that means that we have to look at there's three valid things that need to occur here, furnace, car, braces. And we've got to treat all of them like they're very important because

they are and john i i need you didn't ask for this but i just got to speak it out there i know the tension i feel when i want to buy something when i have to buy something and then my wife says hey hank needs shoes and the temptation is to let him know i'm buying you these shoes at a cost of, right? So the temptation is going to take that boy. Buddy, you better appreciate them. I'm driving this truck, and what I'm going to ask you to do is don't put that in the heart and soul of your 11-year-old, that he's a burden to his family, that dad can't drive to work, or we can't have heat. And John didn't say that, and you said he didn't say that.

No, I know he didn't. We're just making sure he doesn't. If everybody out there, man, take care of your kids because that's the right thing to do. And don't make them feel more of a burden than they already do. Yeah. Amen. Good stuff. And be kind.

And unified. No, Dave. Stop with your propaganda. Just kind. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show. Did you know that over 16 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? And a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, head to DaveRamsey.com slash show.