The Ramsey Show - App - Debt is Not a "His & Hers" Thing When You're Married (Hour 1)

Episode Date: February 22, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Justin is with us in Phoenix to start off this hour. Hey, Justin, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, thanks. Pleasure to talk to you.

You too, sir. What's up? So, I have dug a pretty deep hole, and I'm finally getting to get to my bigger shovel later this fall. And that puts me in baby step number two. And by my calculations, it will take about eight years to pay off these big mountain of loans, doing rice and beans, which would mean delaying my retirement funding by about eight years. So I've been doing some financial calculators,

and it seems like that would cut my retirement fund at age 65 and half essentially and if I followed the repayment plan that would take obviously longer I would pay back about 150,000 more but I would double my retirement fund at age 65 so I love your system and I want to follow it but I need a little convincing on how to follow the steps, seeing as how a bit of a disadvantage it feels like. Okay. And so how much student loan debt do you have? About $550,000. $550,000?

Yeah. Okay. And so what is your field of study? Medicine. Yeah. Okay. And so what is your field of study? Medicine. I'll be a family practice doctor in the fall. I'll be done with residency. Okay.

You'll be practicing in what part of medicine? Family practice. Family practice. Yeah. Okay. And pray tell, why did it take $550,000 to be an MD to do family practice? A lot of poor decisions. Most of it was advice from other people early on in my career to worry about loans. It's just another drop in the bucket.

Everybody has them, and just take what you can, and you'll pay it back later. Don't worry about it. So it was just misguided and I'm taking on too much probably. I was hoping you were going to tell me you were a neurosurgeon. But family practice, what are you looking at?

I have another eight years to finish that. What are you looking at family practice? A hundred and a half a year income? A hundred and eighty starting. Mm- that. Yeah. What are you looking at family practice, a hundred and a half a year income? 180 starting. Okay. And then going up from there. Right. Okay.

And so why does it take eight years if you're making 180,000? Because you could just kind of like squeak by on 80 and put 100 on it and be done in five years. Yeah. After taxes and tithing, I'm down to 110 essentially. And then we are planning on putting in the baby steps would be about 85 a year, leaving us 20 to 30 to live off of. Okay. I think you did your tax calculation wrong or something. Because it would seem like I think we are able to get more than 30,000, I mean, more

than 80,000 on this. But 80,000 on it doesn't take eight years either, does it? Just with the interest rate, it looks like over the next eight years it would total up to about. And your income doesn't go up in your scenario either. It should. That's with me kind of building in like a 5% raise every year, which is a little bit maybe on the favoritist side. Yeah.

I'm thinking you're going to get more raises than that, hopefully. And is there other things you can do if you're doing family practice? I mean, can you work ER on the weekends or something? Most places won't let you because they don't want you to come in tired from working other shifts based on assigned work. They won't let me work other jobs. But hopefully that mode changes. If they're not giving me the work I need, I am hungry for,

and I can make out more deals with them. But they said that they can put me to work as much as I need and kind of build. Yeah, because, I mean, you could probably pick up another 100 a year working ER on the weekends. If you can physically have the stamina to do it, I mean, it's a lot of work. And I don't want to, you know, obviously we don't want someone not getting proper care because of your fatigue or something like that.

But all I'm trying to do is just try to increase the size of your shovel because what I don't want to do, I think you've run out your worst case scenario on every possible scenario to get to eight years and that's the only way your uh your question even starts to make any sense as if it's at eight years but uh but i really am not my point is i'm just not going to accept the eight years i'm going to go with a four-year plan a five-year plan something like that and yeah i am going to delay retirement because four-year plan, a five-year plan, something like that. And, yeah, I am going to delay retirement. Because this is a vast problem. I mean, this is a patient that has come to you with an extreme situation.

And so the care, the plan for their care has to be extreme. And, yeah, you've got to be extreme. You're going to have to go crazy to clean up this extreme mess. And, no, I would not start retirement. Yes, I would get on beans and rice, rice and beans. Yes, I would pick up as much extra income as I can pick up. Yes, I'm going to maximize my MD financially any way I can for a period of time to clean up this mess because you're just saddled with an unbelievable amount of debt. It's just hard to even fathom it.

But, yeah, you've got to clean it up because you just can't play with something like this. This is like I'm going to have a, you know, when you've got something extreme, you have to react to it with extreme, and that's the only way to fight it. And so you've got to go bananas on this, and you've got to knock it out, and it's got to be a lot sooner than eight years um because i agree with you you're going to end up with less money uh at retirement if you go with eight year plan but it's a year plan just isn't right um the other possibility if you haven't taken your job yet um is is there a uh a signing bonus with one of these hospital companies that wants you on board where they pick up part of your student loan debt? I've run into that several times, and I don't know whether

there's enough demand for family practice to do that or not, but I've had docs say, you know, such and such a hospital will pay $200,000 of my student loan debt, and I'm agreeing to work there for five years or whatever but that's a signing bonus in a very real sense and that's something to look at too if you haven't already landed your actual position is um that becomes that those kinds of benefit packages or signing bonus packages um in your case is desperately needed so yeah we've got to clean it up though justin you cannot drag this out. And you guys have just got to live on nothing,

and you're going to be working a lot. And all of that is because of the decisions you made up to this point. As you said, the bad decisions. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. There's nothing smart about smartphones if your wireless plan is blowing your budget each month. Pure Talk USA offers smarter wireless with unlimited plans starting as low as $20 per month. You never pay data overage fees and we never turn off your data. No contracts, no hidden fees. And if you're thinking our low cost means less coverage, think again.

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Hey, Cheyenne, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. It's such a pleasure. Pleasure to talk to you. How can I help? So I have a question. My husband and I, we've listened to you for about a month or so now, so we're trying to get everything, kind of make it understandable to ourselves. We're both playing the debt game, and so I have student debt. We paid off our car last month, the one car we had, thanks to you.

Good. And so we just have our student loans, and we have the house. So I've been super aggressively paying down my student loans. I've gotten down from like 90 to I think about 38 right now. And my husband has started OT school. And so he is currently kind of starting his debt cycle. So my question is, is his upcoming semester, his summer semester, he will have to take out, of course, more loans, but it's going to be a grad plus loan, which means higher percentage interest. So the question is, should I pay less on my current student loans, like be less aggressive with my debt, and try to cash flow his summer semester,

or just kind of continue what we're doing and then attack his debt once we get to his debt? Yeah, step one to getting out of debt is don't borrow anymore. Right. And then step two is to begin to work through the debts. So, no, you should not be paying down debts until you're first cash flowing anything you're doing. So he's in what kind of school, OT? Yeah, occupational therapy. Oh, okay.

And he's actually in Belmont. So we come to Nashville every third weekend for his schooling. Okay. And, okay, so, yeah, you need to roll up your sleeves with your budget, and before you reduce any debt, you've got to cash flow his school. Okay. Yeah, my biggest worry was if I was accumulating, because I have more loans than he does right now,

that he has to pay me more interest. No, no, listen, listen, Cheyenne, Cheyenne, you're married. And since you're married, we have student loans. Okay. And we are trying to get our husband through school. And so, no, it's not his and yours. It's now, the preacher said, and now you are one. Right.

And so we have household goals. We have marriage goals. And it is for both of us, all of us, to be 100% debt-free. And the best step on that is to – it's not your roommate. It's your husband. The best step on this is to – the best way is to not borrow anymore. That's the thing. Devontae is with us in Norfolk, Virginia.

Hi, Devontae. How are you? I'm good, Mr. Ramsey. Thank you so much for taking my phone call. Sure. What's up? So, me and my wife are on about $85,000 in debt. We're both active duty

military in the Navy. And that debt is about, I want to say, a couple of cards, credit cards, no student loans, two cars, and a vending machine. My question is, do we keep our account separate until we pay off our individual debts? No. Or do we now? No, you don't have individual debts.

Just like I was just explaining to her a second ago. No, when you're married, you need to combine everything. The old-fashioned marriage vows said, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge. And so you have joined, and you are one. And so just put it all in a pile, all of your income in a pile, all of your debt in a pile, and work it as one unit all the way through.

And number one, you'll get a lot better marriage relationship by doing that. But number two, you'll actually make more ground financially and mathematically by doing that. And so what do you owe on your cars? Well, she bought a car brand new, which I co-signed. I have a car that's at $15,000. And hers is at what? And hers is at $30,000 right now. Yeah.

And so $45,000 of your $80,000 is cars. And what's your household income? Our household income with BAH, which is basic housing allowance, mine alone is $48,000, and I think she makes around the same, probably about $45,000. Okay. Then there's no possible way you should have a $30,000 car

when you're $80,000 in debt. That's insanity. This car was a really dumb idea. And what I would do if I woke up in your old shoes is I would look at two of you looking at it together, but I'm getting rid of the $30,000 car. And it's almost half of your debt, that one thing. And it was dumb. You could not afford that car. And you bought more car than you should have bought. If I woke up in your shoes, I'd sell that, and I would start to plow through this debt together and, again, start talking about our household income, and you don't even know what she makes. I mean, you guys really, really, really, really are going to have to start working on the same page here.

Hold on. I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover, to help you do that, and thanks for your service, sir. We appreciate you. Open phones at 888-825-5225 nick is with us in detroit hi nick welcome to the dave ramsey show hey dave i appreciate you taking my question sure what's up simple well maybe i have um suddenly taken a financial hit and i'm wondering if I should put my student loans in forbearance or deferment. A financial hit. You lost an income?

Yeah, two jobs, my primary income of about $700 a week. I was seasonal and thinking I was going to be one of the crew that got left on, but along with 40 other people, I was going to be one of the crew that got left on, but along with 40 other people I laid off this week. So I had more than enough, but now I've only got a $400 a month income. So with $370 a month on student loans alone, around $2,000 total of monthly expenses, I'm wondering, should I put that $370 monthly payment into deferment or forbearance? I mean, I'm aggressively applying for jobs.

I could have one within days, but I don't know that. You might as well, because you're not going to pay it. Okay. I mean, you don't have the money to pay it. Period. Whether they put you in forbearance or whether they approve it or whether they don't, they're simply not getting their check, because you don't have enough money to pay them. And so you're right.

You've got to take care of food first, lights and water second, rent third, transportation, food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities, basic life necessities. And the student loan, Sally Mae's not on that list. She's not a basic necessity. So we'll get to her when we get to her as soon as you get to working again as soon as you get your hours back up right but uh but for right now they're simply not going to get paid and hopefully they will uh you know accept your forbearance and um it won't be something you have to force on them by just simply not paying them but if you can put it in hardship deferral or forbearance or whatever you need to do with them in order to give yourself a few months off while you get squared back around with your income and get things going again, yeah, you've got to do it.

You don't really have a choice. I'm sorry you're facing this, but the good news is you're out there hustling. You'll find something. It's just a matter of when and what, and it might end up being the best thing ever for you. You might make more money than you've ever made in your life. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Selena is in the Facebook group, our official Facebook group, called The Ramsey Baby Steps Community. And you can join it.

It's a private Facebook group, but you apply and we'll let you in and you can be part of it. She says, can you settle an argument for us? I have three loans, $24,000 at 5%, $30,000 at 3%, $33,000 at 11%, which should be paid off first, your smallest, $24,000, $30,000 next, $33,000 next. You list your debts, smallest to largest, Selena. You pay minimum payments on everything but the little one and you attack the little one with a vengeance and you got a pretty good pile of debt here so you're looking at extra jobs you're looking at selling stuff and you are not going to see the

inside of a restaurant unless you're working there you have a mess and so time to roll up your sleeves and get after it but we always tell, with the rare exception of maybe the IRS being at the front or something like that, 99% of the time you're going to hear me use the debt snowball where you list your debts, smallest to largest, regardless of interest rate, and pay them off in that order. So that's what we'll do here, Selena. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I get asked all the time about what people need to do to improve their family's money situation. Two of the most overlooked things are term life insurance and disability insurance.

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Call 800-356-1780 or visit zander.com and compare online. That's 800-356-1780 or zander.com. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Diab and Laura are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Amazing, Dave. Amazing, Dave. How are you? Honored to have you. I'm better than I deserve.

Where do you guys live? Howell, Michigan. It's about 50 miles northwest of Detroit. Wow. Okay, cool. Good to have you. Thanks for coming all the way to Nashville to do your debt-free scream. How much have you paid off? Well, Dave, we've paid off $202,311.51. Wow. How long did this take? That took us two years, eight months, and seven days.

All right. And what was your range of income during that time? We started out at about $130,000, and then we quickly increased that to about $190,000 with some extra jobs and some changes in employment. And that's where we're at right now is about $190,000. Wow. What do you guys do for a living? I'm a compliance officer with a health insurance company. And I'm a recruiter. Very cool. Good. So you guys, you got your incomes way up in a short period of time. That's pretty amazing. Yeah, and really, really what it came from is I was an instructor for a university, and I would travel around the country every weekend, typically between 12 to 15 times over the course of the year,

and really left being a single parent for many, many months, including some birthday parties, including our own sons that I had to miss. But we had a bigger goal than worrying about the short term. And that was her side hustle. She worked 40 hours a week before doing that, too. Wow, and that kicked it way up. Wow, good for you guys. You've been after it.

What kind of debt was the $202,000? Well, Dave, the biggest portion of the debt was student loans. We had $165,000 in student loans. We had cell phones, a website for my wife's business, car loans, having to cash flow a bathroom for some Murphy issues that popped up, and then paying for a new car while we were going through the journey. Yeah. Wow. Good for you.

Well done, guys. Well done. What got you started on this whole thing two years and eight months ago? Well, I read the book about, I'd say probably eight years ago, and we pretended for about, what, five years of that? Yeah. Of pretending like we were actually doing the plan, and we had put the budget together, blow it up,

and I remember December of 2015, right before January, and I said no more, and he said no more. And we just got at it. And every year we just kept pushing and pushing and pushing and joining groups and keeping the message alive in ourselves as well amongst the groups that we were in. Yeah, and our son, when he was born, Laura had a change in employment where she wasn't working at the time due to some factors. And we were living off just my income at the time, which was about $57,000. And we thought to ourselves, we're making this much money and we're not getting any debt done over what we used to live on. So we thought, you know, let's go back to that. Let's live off one income, less than one income, and just go forward. Yeah, okay. So what is the difference of, what does it look like for somebody that's listening,

that they're kind of doing the plan, they're doing ish, like you did for five years, and then what's the difference in ish and really being game on? For me, it was really understanding the why and the other part was really understanding the impact that we can have to the kingdom of god which is a huge why oh it's so big yeah it changes everything when you when you've got a good noble reason to fight scratch and claw you will fight and that's what you've been doing for two years and eight months you've been getting after it hustle and grind. Totally. And for me, we've got a seven-year-old son.

We don't want him to have to take out student loans. We want him to learn really the value of the money, the value of spending, saving, and giving. And we just want to be able to give ourselves. Yeah, absolutely. Well done, you guys. So what is the secret to getting out of debt? I'm the big nerd. I have the seven-layered spreadsheet.

And really, it's being honest with yourself of what are you committed to in the now. There was some really weird meals that we would have at the end of the month because we would be all out of the budget for our groceries. The other secret is really surrounding yourself with a group of friends that you can call and say, this is terrible. I can't do it anymore. And I think for me, there's two things. One is realizing that this is a choice. So I think when you call this a choice, you kind of take the power back from the situation. And we were each other's, we were each other's, you know, pick me ups when, when it was getting rough on each other. And luckily it kind of changed times. One time it'd be me, one time it'd be her. And then we would sit down to talk to about it and talk about this just being a choice that we're making to get

ourselves out of debt. And we could go screw up again, but we don't want to, we're choosing to do this. And I think that gave us a lot of power. And then the other thing is, I think that communication and a budget and being there for each other, I think this really just was an amazing step forward in our marriage. So I think that really fully embracing it and not ishing it, I think made us a better couple as well as friends and, you know, husband and wife. Absolutely. Cool. Well, congratulations, you two. Thank you.

Very well done. And you brought your son, and his name is what? Liam. Liam. And how old is Liam? Liam is seven years old. Seven years old. All right.

So has he been practicing the debt-free scream, too? He has. All right. Good stuff. I love it. All right. It's Diab, Laura, and Liam. $202,000 paid off in two years and eight months, making $130,000 to $190,000.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! I love it. That is fun. That's fun. I love it. That is fun. That's fun.

Well done, you guys. Very well done. Absolutely fabulous. Tom is with us in St. Louis. Hey, Tom, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, thanks for talking with me. Sure, what's up? I got a question. I'm talking about a 401k that I recently retired from my job after 30 years.

Talking to a couple different planners on what to do with my 401k. There's about $1.6 million in there. One planner is talking about all annuities for income growth, long-term care. The other is bringing in no annuities but doing an IRA self-pension, he calls it, to set up your own kind of pension. So I was wondering which one of those two may be the same. The third choice is I was there so long I can actually just leave it where it is and just do it myself but i don't know if i'm that competent to do that okay and there's a fourth choice always okay and that's the one i would do i wouldn't do any of that um personally i i mean i'm 58 and i'm not going to do any of that with mine. So I'll be simply taking 401k money and rolling it into an IRA and a series of growth stock mutual funds. And I will sit with an advisor that helps me select those.

And I learn about it. I know what it is. You're going to learn about it. You're going to know what it is you're going to learn about it you're going to know what it is and um all these double backflip barrel of fish hook stuff is not necessary there's just not that much to this i mean if you can make those if you can make 1.6 create 10 a year then you're living on 160 grand life is good right oh that's great you know and so um not necessarily you have to pull that off but um but you ought to be the market has averaged that and more um my mutual funds have averaged more like 12 percent over the long haul uh and uh so you know that i'm just looking for some

mutual funds that are performing and uh i personally have recommended and I personally invest in the four types we talk about, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. With 1.6, I'd probably have a couple in each of those categories, and that would put you in about eight mutual funds across 1.6 million, and that would be plenty of diversification. From my book, I mean, you can do whatever you want, but if that's the kind of thing you want to do, just click SmartVestor at DaveRamsey.com, and they'll help you.

I mean, you can find one of the folks that we recommend, our SmartVestor pros, and sit down with them, choose them, choose from one of them. But you're not going to get annuities advice from them, and you're not going to get any of this other garbage that's, you know. Right. Just keep it simple. There's nothing that doesn't have to be complicated. So, hey, you've done very well.

Congratulations, sir. Sounds like you're an everyday millionaire. Love it. Well done. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Cameron's with us in Austin, Texas. Hey, Cameron, welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I have just started Financial Peace University with my

new wife and I have been budgeting for a couple years but I've done the steps a little bit out of order and so my question's about kind of what I should do about that. I got a job at a startup company right out of college and so being at a startup, my first step was to put $10,000 away in an emergency fund instead of the $1,000. And now I've got about $14,500 in debt. And I'm wondering if I should pull out $9,000 of that and throw it straight towards the debt. That's what we teach yes okay even okay yep gotcha that's exactly what we teach and use all non-retirement investments or savings towards the debt until the debt is gone and then attack the debt and when you're out of debt and baby step two everything

but your house then you go back to the one,000 account and as quickly as possible raise it up to three to six months of expenses. And that's exactly how we teach to work the baby steps. And what that will do is it will give you the fastest reaction and the fastest turn time towards getting those first three things done. Because when you can get out of debt and you have an emergency fund in place, those three steps, that's just foundational. Now you've laid a solid foundation to start to build wealth with. But when you get things out of order, you know, it just takes forever. And so that's why we work it that way.

Hey, good question. Thanks for calling in. Jeff is with us in California. Hi, Jeff. How are you? I'm very good, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

What's up? Well, I'm 69 years old. I've paid off an enormous amount of debt in the last three years, and so I have a really good income. Good. I have one piece of property left to pay off. I've got 46 months left on it. I only have $140,000, however, in retirement. And so my question is, should I just continue

on the monthly payments on this 46 months on this one piece of property, or should I try to pay it off really rapidly and, you know, focus on getting money into retirement? Either way, I'm, you know, I've got a plan for putting money into retirement. But, you know, I listen to you, and I hear you telling people, boy, try to get that debt paid off ASAP. And when I put the question to my accountant, he said, well, you could, but you're going to pay a lot of income taxes when you do that, to be able to do that. And so he said, well, maybe just pay it off over two years instead of the four. So that's my question, basically.

What is the income tax implication? I don't understand. Well, he said to pay off, because there's about $88,000 left in principle to pay off. So he said to do that in this next year. So I could pay it off within the next year if I focused completely on that. Yeah, and so why would that create an income tax problem? Because it's a commercial property, so you'd have to take over $100,000 in income to pay that much off, whereas if I just paid off... How can you not take income?

Are you pulling it out of an investment to pay it off? No, no, no. It's all just... I'm self-employed. Yeah. So you're going to pay taxes on your income anyway. But he felt that if I paid it off... No, no, no, no. Wait a minute.

All in one year. How much do you make a year? Probably a little over a couple hundred thousand. Okay. And you pay taxes on that, right? Right. And paying $80,000 off in debt does not change that.

Well, if I paid it off at $ twenty thousand dollars a year because i'm i'm self-employed so i can if i if i focus on the retirement the money comes out into a pension plan so it's not taxed okay so the difference is i take it out of salary and pay it on to the property then it's taxed okay Okay. So if you throw it into a 401K, is what you're saying, you're putting it into a traditional 401K, which is like $20,000 a year you can do, and you're not going to pay taxes on that.

That's the issue. Yeah, they're telling me between my two accounts, my profit-sharing account, they believe I can probably put close to $60,000 a year in it because of my income and my age and everything. And shelter all of it. Right, exactly. Okay, that does make sense. All right.

And this is not your home. It's an investment property, right? No, I'm, yeah, I was, I got divorced three years ago. My ex got all the cash, and I got all the debt. And I have my business and two properties. Okay, all right. And so I've paid off over $300,000 worth of debt, and I'm almost debt-free except for this one property.

It's a commercial property. I got you. I rent. I got you. And I love renting. At 69, I'm probably going with your accountant. Let's pay this off over two years or three years and max out all of the things you can do because you've got some catching up to do rapidly on your retirement and profit sharing stuff, right? Right.

Yeah, so I'm with him. But I think you can still pay this off with your income and the numbers you're giving me. If you throw $60 into, you're making $200 and you throw $60 into your pension stuff, your profit sharing and into your 401k, keep the taxes off of that, you still can throw $30 or $40 at this thing and be done with it in a couple of years. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

And so, yeah, that's what I would. I would shelter as much as I can, throw it in there, get that going in good growth stock mutual funds like we talk about all the time. And I'd try to get this investment property paid off. I don't think I'd go four years. I think I'd probably do it in two, maybe three, but probably two. Meanwhile, having done what your guys are suggesting and sheltering as much as you can. So, good question. Thanks for joining us.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Did you know there's about 2 million active real estate agents in the U.S.? Yeah. It's safe to say that not all real estate agents are equally skilled. That's being polite, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, it's the Pareto principle, right? 20% of the people in that business make 80% of the money and 80% of the sales.

And that means the other 80% are not who you want listing your house, right? Not who you want picking out. They just got their license, and it's your Aunt Sally, and you're going to do your largest financial transaction with somebody that's new. That's dumb. Don't do that. There's fewer houses for sale right now in a competitive market. It's really important to list your home with someone.

When you get ready to put a home up for sale, it's very important that you do it with someone that knows what they're doing and that is at the top of their game and is at the top of the market and is one of the best there is. High-octane, high-protein real estate agents. And out of 2 million, most of them aren't. Most of them aren't. So our endorsed local providers, the people we endorse in the real estate world,

are experts, and they have proven track records of selling more houses. They're not pushy. They're not jerks. They're not going to, you know, they're just going to serve you, but they know how to get the most out of your house when you list it with them and get it the fastest. And they're willing to take the time to learn about you, work the process with you. If you're thinking about buying, they'll show you the whole process there as well. So if you're thinking about real estate, click real estate beside ELP on the front page of our website, DaveRamsey.com slash agent, and you can find an agent or just go to the front page of the website and click ELP for real estate. I got to have dinner with a bunch of our

ELPs the other night up in Grand Rapids, and some of them were SmartVestor Pros. They're not ELPs. And some of them were tax-preparing ELPs, and some of them were real estate. And the real estate people, I just, man, I got my real estate license when I was 18 years old in 1978, 1,000 years ago, right? So I've been in and around the real estate business my whole life. I love real estate, and I love real estate people, too, for that reason been in and around the real estate business my whole life. I love real

estate, and I love real estate people, too, for that reason. But it's a wacky business. A percentage of them are just crazy, right? And you've really got to get somebody that knows their stuff if you're talking about selling your most expensive asset. So list it right. Be smart about this, folks. Be smart. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniels, our associate producer and phone screener. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, and we'll be back. This is James Childs, producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. Once again, you made the Dave Ramsey Show one of the top five most downloaded podcasts last year. To get your daily dose of motivation and inspiration, subscribe today.