The Ramsey Show - App - Define Your Future By Setting The Right Financial Priorities

Episode Date: December 26, 2024

While we're out for the Christmas break, we've compiled some of our favorite Ken and Rachel calls from the past couple of years. Enjoy your day and we'll be back with a live show in the new year! Merry Christmas! Ken Coleman & Rachel Cruze answer your questions and discuss: ‘Quit my two remote jobs to take one hybrid?' 'We couldn't agree on money so we broke up.’ ‘Are we teaching our kids that credit is OK?’ ‘Use emergency fund for daughter's quinceanera?' ‘I made an agreement for a house I can't afford.’ ‘How much should I spend on a wedding ring?’

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, very specifically in your money, in your work, and in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the number. 888-825-5225. Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Always fun to be sitting alongside my good pal, my friend. I don't know if you can call a lady a pal, but just my old pal, Rachel Cruz. Old pal. Known each other forever. And we love, love taking your questions. So let's have some fun. Let's get some hope established for you so you can move forward. Let's start off in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the city of?

Brotherly love. There it is. She used to make fun of me. You're welcome. I think you've been paying attention to my little quotes. That's it. You're so happy about it. Melanie, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm excited to talk to you both. Well, we're excited to talk to you. What's happening? Awesome. So I'm in a little bit of a professional conundrum. I love a conundrum.

Me too. Great word. Great word. I'm currently working two full-time remote jobs. That has been great for my family. Wow. Kids in school and all that. I'm fortunate to find two remote jobs. Hold on a second. my family. Wow. Kids in school and all that. I've been fortunate to find two remote jobs.

Hold on a second. Hold on. This is fascinating. I've got to know. Do both companies know about the other? Of course not. So you are a professional polygamist. Are you aware of this?

Can we say? Yes, you can say. Melanie, I am so sorry that you have to deal with him no she's not offended she's not offended at all i i expect ken to give me a hard time i listen not even doing that i just wanted to say professional polygamist because you've got you i've got two you got sister wives you got two companies that you're working full-time for and they don't know about the other. And I'm not even trying to. I think sister wives know about each other.

That is fair. You get my point. It's a fun little metaphor. How are you pulling this off? How long have you pulled this off? I've been doing it now for a year. Are you exhausted? Huh?

Are you tired? I'm a little tired. Yeah, I'm not going to lie gonna lie i mean two full-time jobs yeah yeah keeping them away from each other it's like it's like having a mistress it's exhausting it's a lot of great time management that's all i can say you must be incredible so what kind of money you knocking down so i'm netting 9696 a year. Okay. All right. So what's your question?

So I've just been offered a different job that will cause me to be hybrid, three days in the office and two days working from home, with a base pay of $100K and with up to a potential of getting a 20% bonus of my base pay. Oh, wow. And what has kept you from saying yes to that offer? Well, because I technically would be netting less. I guess, you know, right now my husband and I bring home about 12 a month, and then if I take this, we'd be bringing home about 97. Why would the net be

less? That's not including the bonus though. Yeah, exactly. And you're not cheating on another company and thus risking getting fired from one or both. Yeah. And also I think professionally, the job that just offered me this position would be a step up for me professionally. Great. But I just, I don't know. I just, I'm a little nervous about. So it's the net. Giving up to remote jobs and, you know, flexibility with the kids because I do have like school-age children at home.

Let me ask you, Melanie, let me ask you a real question. And you've been a great sport because Rachel thinks I'm being mean. I'm not. I'm not judging you. I'm just trying to coach you. How long do you think you're going to be able to keep this up and then not find out about it? How long do you think you got? Not very long. I mean, honestly, I think it's more just to do the debt snowball for my husband and I were a baby step two. I don't think you understand the concept. Hold on a second, Melanie. I don't think Rachel understands the concept. She's working two full-time jobs. I hear that.

It'd be like you being a personality for another company, and they not know about it. She knows she can't keep this up because she's going to get found out, and then she's fired. Yeah, but wouldn't it be like having a part-time job, but you're just doing more hours? It's pretty much what it's like, because they are in two different fields. No, no.

No, no. Okay, hold on. Just for point of emphasis here, okay? We're not going to get stuck on this, but I've got to help my friend, Rachel. And Melanie's going to help you. Rachel has to help me here. No. No, she doesn't understand it.

Once she understands it. Rachel, listen to me. Here's what's happening. One company, let's call it ABC, is paying Melanie to work a full-time job. Yes. That's what, 40 hours a week minimum, Melanie? Roughly? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Company XYZ is also paying Melanie to work 40 hours a week. And Melanie, just tell us, how many hours you work in a week for both companies? 80. Now I didn't see that coming. She's trying to get me out of technicality. I still think it's

unethical that they don't know about each other. Yeah, I can get the secret. And again, not to judge you, Melanie, because there's no judgment. It's more protection. So we've already covered. How do you get my... But in my head, if she's working, you get my... No, I always know. She can't keep this up.

But in my head, if she's working both, I get the secrecy, right? But if you're working both full time... Okay, I said, I acknowledge that she kind of had me on a technicality, but it's still dishonest and we still have an ethical issue that she could get penalized for. Yes, but with one company... Which all I care about is Melody. But if ABC company doesn't care that she's also working for XYZ... How do you know?

Because they don't know. No, but what if they're not? Then in your book, is it okay? If they're okay with it? Yes. If they're okay with each other? 100%. So it's the secrecy that's bothering you,

that they don't know about each other. It's not bothering me in a sense that I think she's a bad, it's just, it's risky for Melanie. Yeah. I'm literally playing defense lawyer for her going, I'm not going to tell you what you did was wrong. My job is to help you keep getting paid and not get fired. Yes.

So now the question is, do I take this other job, which has a bonus above and beyond the 100 base. Right. Plus a path for growth. Melanie, you said this is a job that's a better play for you long term. Yeah. Melanie, it's a no brainer. Yeah. Now I'm not working 80 hours a week.iner yeah now i'm not working 80 hours a

week yeah now you're not working 80 hours a week and you're not cheating on another company and you're and again it may be a lifestyle shift because it's a hybrid idea and and but maybe you get into that and and it works and it's great and you can you figure out the logistics with the kids and your kids are in school which is helpful um yeah or you you pan back a year from now and say wow this is hard so maybe i go back to lmno company you find another job right but melanie melanie you do know i'm on team melanie right we love you melanie i do but listen i do and i just wanted to make sure that i'm not kind of shooting myself in the foot with the $3,000 less that I'd be making in a month. Yeah, but you told us you're not including the bonus in that exercise.

I'm not. So you've got to put the bonus in, amortize that over 12 months, and then you start looking at the monthly. It's not quite $3,000 because you said $97,000. So my point is, I think it's all in all, it's not going to be that much of a difference at all in the short term. And we know long term is better if you take this new job. And just for your own benefit. So you're not working 80 hours a week. You're working 40. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's true. All right. Thank you so much. I appreciate your input. Yeah. Melanie, take the job, man, you got to get out of jail free here on this one.

I mean, whoa. By the way, this is a new trend. She is not alone. There are millions of Americans that are professional polygamists. They have two full-time jobs and they don't know about each other. And it is cheating. I don't care how you slice it. I'm all for you getting them paid.

But man, you could get fired and it makes me nervous, you know? Oh man. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981.

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slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budgets. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we are taking your calls about your money, your career, your relationships, anything and everything at 888-825-5225. Up next is Karina in Boise. Hey, Karina, welcome to the show. Hi. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. How can we help? So last week, me and my fiance broke up because we couldn't decide on finances. And also, more importantly, we couldn't decide on how to inherit our kids. He has two boys and I have one son.

And I have a paid for house and I make a bit more money than him. And he has a house with some equity in it, but he has a roommate on the title and mortgage because I guess they invested together. And then, um, so I am, I am Christian and I know God wants us to put our spouse before our children. But I think in our arguments, I was just having such a hard time. And, you know, I haven't been with my fiancé for a week, but just moving forward with him or without him, I need to figure it out for the next time that this comes about and, you know, figure out how to deal with it.

Do you guys share children? Yes, children. Are your children from different folks? Do you share them? What's the situation? Yeah, he has two boys with his first wife. Okay. And I have a son, and I pretty much raised him alone.

His father was not involved. Okay, got involved. Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. And what was the disagreement about Karina? So I think it all started when I mentioned to him that when I moved into my house, which is paid off, I wanted to leave this as an inheritance to my son because I think I sacrificed a lot of quality time

when my son was little because I was going to school for engineering and I was single and I was working so I didn't get to spend that quality time with him. And when I finally got that stability, I wanted to give it to him, kind of to make up for what I couldn't do before. So it's really emotional for me to talk about finances. And my ex-fiance, she wasn't understanding that. And to this point, I get it. Your spouse should come first, but in terms of finances,

I'm just having a hard time dealing with that. Yeah. Did you initiate the breakup or did he? It was just kind of mutual. We just kind of got tired of talking about different scenarios and how we can make it work, and we both argued our points. Like, I know he wants to protect his children,

and I want to protect my son in terms of, you know, what we have established already. So what's your question for us specifically? Like, how can, how do you go about finances in, like, a second relationship when you already bring in children? Do you, like... Because how old are the kids? Do you inherit them, or do you just not get married? Yeah. My son is 21

and then his kids he has a 13 year old and a 15 year old Okay So no, I let Rachel take the bigger crux of the relationship and money He's 21 and he has a 15 year old? No, my son is 21 My fiance is 47

Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I thought you meant he as in your fiance. I'm sorry. I apologize. Yeah, I just want to point out something that's come up twice in the conversation with us, and I just want to get that out of the way and let Rachel kind of help you on this, and I can weigh in on the marriage stuff too. But this idea that the Bible says that you you value your spouse of your

kids this idea that that means you disinherit your son no no no no this this is all going to fall under the same umbrella that rachel's going to advise you on on y'all being on the same page and it doesn't matter if the kids are coming in from previous relationships or not. But no, under no scenario are you going to disavow or, as you're saying, disinherit your son. That's not part of the equation. And if that's part of the conversation, it's not healthy, and you did the right thing by walking. Yeah, and Karina, for you as a mom,

because I can only imagine the sacrifices that you made when he was little, and that's where a lot of this emotion is coming from. And so I feel like I would kind of challenge you to say, you know, this is a symbol, this house is a symbol of your hard work, you feeling guilty, probably a level of mom guilt, of leaving your son when he was younger. And it's excruciating. You know, when I had to leave my kids,

I had a four-year-old crying in the garage when I pulled out to come do this show. It's not fun. It is hard as a mom for those working and that you're like, oh. And so you as a single mom especially went through so much,

Karina, so much in order to have this. But I would just challenge you. Not that this would change your decision, but I want you to, if you can separate this house and what you did for your son and the relationship you have with your son, this house has become a symbol. Um, and I don't want it to be the make or break breaking point for you in the future with relationships. And I, and I understand that it's to protect this for your son. But just as a mom, I don't want you to carry that burden of still feeling like I have to make up for what I did. Because Karina, you did what you had to do.

You were a single mom. And that was the situation you were in. And so you were not a bad mom for doing this. So giving your son a house or not doesn't make you're not a bad mom for doing this so giving your house a son or not giving your your son a house or not does it make you a good or bad mom um so i want you to kind of separate that that language in your head because i feel like that's twisted into this decision does that make sense yes um because i i i under and i and I, and I applaud you for being so protective of it because again, I, I, I hear what you walk through with it.

So it makes sense, but I also don't want this house to be the symbol of what I did. And I feel bad. And now I have to make it up to my son. Cause you know what your son wants? Karina, he wants you. And,

and, and if he wants his mom to be happy, if this man that you love, um, your, your, your ex fiance, Karina, he wants you. And if he wants his mom to be happy, if this man that you love, your ex-fiance, if that is a relationship that is good for you and it is healthy, and you guys can find the way to reconcile these two things or this thing of the inheritance, which is a big deal, but also at the end of the day like there's a point too of companionship and love in a marriage yeah that's the question i have karina and pardon me for i was trying to listen are you guys on the same page with debt and everything else or is there also some some some separation in the way he sees money and debt and all that stuff

because you've done everything the right way where are you guys on the rest of the stuff, the rest of the money stuff? He's good with money, and, yeah, he's very smart with money, and I don't think there's an issue there. I think it's just more about combining households and, you know, Is he on the same page with you? And I'm being in one. Right. But let me ask you this. Is he on the same page in relation to debt?

That's yes or no. Yes. Okay. Is he also on the same page that when we come together as a married couple, we combine our finances? Yes. He is more for that than me he said that we should combine everything and um at the end of the day we just split it up like when we both pass away we just split it up

evenly between all our kids okay all right all right so i'm the one that's kind of like selfish because i'm i'm like i'm bringing in, and he has two kids, and I have one kid. Yeah, but Rachel's right. I hope you heard Rachel. I'm telling you, she's right. So I've got to tell you, I'm taking a little bit different tack here. I think you guys need to have a nice dinner, and I think you guys need to sit down and

get this hashed out and say what really matters, and let's look at the big picture. And you're going to have to let go of some stuff. I love Rachel's advice there. Yeah, but it's hard. I want to see her give this a chance. I know. Because I feel like this is just about the investment through the inheritance. And it becomes this thing.

And we don't want our stuff to own us. And at that point, it's owning a part of you for good reason. I understand it. But I want you to have freedom from that. And I think it's attached to that mom guilt, Karina, that I really want you to think through. So thank you for calling. I hope that helps. And, you know, I hope you guys can go the way that you need to go, whether it's together or separate.

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I'm trying to look for another adjective. So how about that? I'll take graceful. You'll take it? All right, very nice. Hey, today's question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. Politicians make a lot of promises, and sometimes they might even keep one or two. But if you're in over your head with private student loans, don't rely on the government. Contact Y-Refi. Y-Refi refinances defaulted private student loans and gives you a low fixed rate

loan built for you. Go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y. R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Elizabeth in Missouri. We have two elementary school age kids, five and seven. We budget for the kids to buy school lunch once a week. The school is cashless, so we add money to an account to be used for the kids to scan their ID card and the lunch line. In addition to the regular lunch, the school sells snacks at checkout. We have told the kids that they can get lunch,

but would have to pay us back from their piggy bank money for any extra treats that they buy. Initially, we thought this would be a good intro and teaching them about money management, but then realized that it's more like buying on a credit card and paying mom and dad back later. Are we teaching them that credit is okay with this plan in the cashless system where there's no tangible money to be exchanged? How else can we teach young kids about money management? Oh, that's funny. No, I don't think that's teaching them about debt.

I'm like, they're buying snacks at like they're as long as the pain comes from the piggy bank they're learning yes yes and and the reality is too you know you're teaching them about money management in 2024 i mean there's a lot of yeah it's a good point cashless you know vendors and retailers that it is what it is so so what are you what are you going to do with that with your debit card and all so so yeah that doesn't yeah that doesn't bother me i think this is great actually because treats at school is ground zero for kids learning to kind of be content you're the queen of contentment um over there yeah you know what i mean like you think about it that's where their greatest temptation i know to spend is the treats oh do you have a story well this just felt close

to home because we're our school is the exact same way and there's an app of course that you go and you can load and use apple pay to load the money back in the school lunches all of it um and it turned i didn't know this this is back when my oldest was this was a few years ago when i didn't know how everything worked and one of my my friends was like, you know, you can go back and look and see what all they bought. And I was like, what? No. And sure enough.

Tracking little Amelia's spending. Sure enough. There were treats upon treats upon treats. And I was like. Sweet girl. I was like, I know. I just said Amelia. She was like, well, some of my friends wanted some.

She was buying some for other kids. And I was like, no, no. So the teachers are great because when they're little like that, like first, second grade, you can email them and even tell the teacher, hey, they're only allowed a treat on Fridays. And they kind of help, you know, manage it. But some of these kids, it wasn't always just Amelia, but some of these kids are bartering. And hey, you pay me that and I'll get you. I mean, they figure out how to work the system.

It's like an open air market overseas. It's amazing get you. I mean, they figure out how to work the system, those little ones. It's like an open-air market overseas. It's amazing, yeah. I like it. I like it. She wasn't buying treats for little Johnny, was she? Do what? Who's little Johnny? I don't know.

I'm making it up. I don't know. I don't think so. That'd be Caroline probably, let's be honest. I love it. I love it. All right, let's go to Davenport, Iowa, where Daniel is. Daniel, how can we help today?

Hey, Ken. Hey, Rachel. How can we help today? Hey, Ken. Hey, Rachel. How are you doing today? Good. What's going on? So I'm wondering if I should stay with my current employer or if I should start looking for a different job. Tell me more.

I got to know more. Should we stay or should we go is the question. So I am a husband and a father. I got three little girls and I got another one due in about four and a half weeks. Wow. Congratulations. Thank you. All girls. I'll pray for you. God bless you. Lots of prayers right now.

So my current employer, I told them that my family is growing and what I'm making there just currently isn't cutting it. And just being professional, I informed them I'm a trucker. So I informed them I'm getting my hazardous materials endorsement to get a job that pays me more money, a job where I can be home daily so I can be with my girls every night. They had no problem with that. They understood. But then they asked me to wait about a couple days to a week later, saying that there could be a significant raise coming down the pipe because they did some third-party research in our area

and found out that their salary is pretty bottom of the barrel. Okay. So that was about four months ago, and I've been kind of, uh, politely pestering them and they, there has been no raise thus far. And every time I ask about it, they just say, cause it has to get shot up to corporate. And they say that car corporate has not given them an answer thus far. Yeah. So you're being stonewalled.

So this was four months ago that they told you hang out for about four days or a week. So I love the fact that you have taken this into your own hands and getting that extra licensing. So when are you eligible to step into that role or driving those hazardous materials, which gets you the big raise and a better schedule? Well, I've done, you have to get like fingerprinting all this stuff through like the federal government and everything. I've done all that. I literally just have you have to get like fingerprinting all this stuff through like the federal government and everything. I've done all that. I literally just have to go to the DMV and take the test.

I've taken the test twice, but it's a very hard test and I missed it by four questions last time. So I just passed the test, get the endorsement and I can walk onto these jobs. Let's go. But do not quit yet. We got a baby on the way, three girls at home, a lot of responsibilities. Do not leave this current employer until we have the other gig lined up. That's my clear-cut advice on that.

So let's go. Stop waiting for this current company, my friend Daniel. The current company, they're not going to call you back. I remember in high school, I'd have some buddies. I always got the quick clue, Rachel, but I had some buddies who would ask a girl out about three or four times. After the second, no, it's time to move on. And they're not answering your question. They're kicking it up to corporate and I'm not even sure they're talking to anybody in corporate. So the sign is on the wall is what

I'm getting at. It's time for you to take the next test. Let's get this thing done, and let's move on. Okay. Now, I'm only allowed one question, correct? No, go ahead. When I say we're allowed, I mean a smart one. This just takes care of my immediate, but I actually took your get clear assessment. Okay, great.

And so I just kind of wanted some guidance on that. So I'll just tell you my purpose statement and got it memorized. Okay. But I was created to use my talents of, excuse me, I thought I had it memorized. My talents of communication, instruction, and imagination to perform my passions of leadership, advising and performing to fulfill my mission of service by providing assistance and security. Gotcha. So what's coming off there for me is that's a lot of people work, people and ideas, right? So when it's, when it's, there's some creativity in that, but mostly all of those answers we're driving at, you're good at people stuff and you enjoy people work, correct? Correct.

Yeah. All right. So at that point now, I mean, you, you, you, if you don't have the book, find the work you're wired to do, I'm going to give it to you. Do you have the book? Cause you need, you need some more coaching. I actually currently have it checked out from the library. Oh, well, fantastic. I'm going to give it to you for free today. And from paycheck to purpose. Great. I'll give you both for free today. Christian, let's get this guy hooked up here in just a minute. We'll give you both for free. But here's what you've got to do. What you've got to do is take that purpose statement and you now look at that as a job description, okay? Because it's all laid out for you. So now you go, okay, if this is a job description for me, then where in my area, where in the world of work where I live, are jobs open that allow me to do

this? It's that simple. So you're not sitting around scratching your head, what am I supposed to do? So it's, you're going to be doing people work. You talked about the imagination piece, the instruction piece. So that is a communicative. You have the communication, instruction, and imagination. That is you are going to be working with people, training them. The leadership thing popped up there. The advising thing popped up. So, you know, guide, instructor, coach, that's the type of thing you're looking for. But it may take some time to get into that.

So I really like the path that we're on. Let's move into the hazardous materials right now, as soon as we can. Bump up that salary. New baby. Let's get everything stable there. And then let's take the steps next to go into that work that you were absolutely wired to do. Hang on the line, Daniel. You're a good man. You've already got your sign. Your current company, they're not going to bring the race. Let's move on. Hang on the line. We'll get you those two books, and I'll coach you through via the book. All right, quick break. She's Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz. The phone number is 888-825-5225.

888-825-5225. We're here to answer your questions. Let's go to Jason who joins us now in Los Angeles, California. Jason, how can we help? Hey, thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's going on today, Jason? So I have a, excuse me.

I have a, sorry. I have a quinceanera that my daughter wants to plant. And I don't know if you guys are familiar, but quinceanera is pretty much like a sweet 16. Yeah, yeah. We, and I'm in a bit of a pickle as to whether I could or I should, or if I could afford it or should I do it. How much is it going to cost? So estimated is, I'm estimating between 10 and 15,000.

Wow. You got an itemized list on that? No. Another detail on this is that I'm currently going through a divorce with her mother, and this is kind of being planned by her, and these their prices kind of or her prices as far as what they found i'm just trying to see the problem is is that i have just recently actually fully funded my six-month emergency fund but that takes into account any support that i pay her, my ex-spouse. I don't know if I'm technically I can dip into that, but it's an emergency fund and this is not an emergency.

Yeah. Not only that, you can't afford it. You're calling us, ask. The way that you're talking, we know you can't afford it. Am I right? You can't afford 10 to 15 grand. And they're expecting you. So they're planning, like she's planning it and they're going to expect you to foot the whole bill?

Not foot the whole bill, foot half. She was asking for, at the beginning of all these talks, was half of 10, which was five, but I don't think that's realistic of what it would cost. I can, if I save up until the point of when this is supposed to happen, I could probably save about $4,000. Okay. I save up until the point of when this is supposed to happen. I could probably save about $4,000. Okay.

But I'm just, whether I should do this at this time in my life is a big question. Jason, do you have any other debt, Jason? No, no debt. No debt, okay. But you're fully funded emergency fund. How much do you make a year? Overtime's been good this year, so it's about $120. $120, okay. So here's my two things that I keep thinking as you're talking.

Number one, how we define an emergency to actually dip into an emergency fund is when something is unexpected so this doesn't really qualify because we know that she's going to be yeah is it is it is it 16 years old or is it 15 it's 15 15 yeah okay so we knew she was gonna turn 15 so it's not unexpected uh is it urgent do i have to do it like right now right now right now yeah i guess i guess urgent would somewhat qualify and because there's a date there and is it necessary right so these are the two things so honestly this whole thing it does not check off all those boxes for me so no it's technically not an emergency um so that's

that's one part of the discussion the second part is that you could bring together some money right and let's just say and pretend that it is ten thousand they want you to do five you could bring together some money, right? And let's just say and pretend that it is $10,000. They want you to do five. You could say four. Could you take $1,000 out of the emergency fund to get to the five? Sure. Like you could, right? I mean, it's not the end of the world.

But my biggest problem with all of that, though, Jason, is that just like weddings, just like another party, just like vacations, anything, if you don't keep a strict budget and have a limit to what you're going to spend It gets expensive more expensive. I mean a house even when you build a house same thing like The line continues to move so jason if you decide to do this and to save the four thousand for her Which I think would be great, right? Like I don't think that's a necessarily a bad thing Okay, ken's not that happy about it. If you do it though, there has to be very clear

communication and boundaries with your future ex-wife to say, and your daughter. I would bring her in on it and say, guys, this is what's going on. Here's what I will have for you. This is it. This is all I can do in good conscience and in good faith at where I am in life. This is what I have. Work with that. Right?

And you set the tone. You set the amount on what you can do, Jason. Because if you tell them, sure, I'll do half, it's going to go from 10 to 15 to 20, and there's going to be no boundaries. So you have to set that boundary. Okay, Ken's dying over here.

I'm dying. I'm dying. I agree with everything Rachel said. I just want to say this. I'm going to answer this as if I was in your shoes. And I don't know if there's any special features to this party, so I'm going to try, I'm going to, I'm going to answer this as if I was in your shoes. And I don't, I don't know if there's any special features to this party. So I'm completely ignorant. But if my daughter, Josie, who by the way, turns 15 tomorrow, if she came to me and said,

I want a big party and I've got a budget, I think it's going to be 10. I would ask for an itemized list. There's no way I'm even going to give four, five, six without seeing where in the world is $10,000 going for a party for a bunch of 15-year-olds. So I'm starting there. And so I would say that everything Rachel said is absolutely right. You give your number after they give you numbers. You don't just get, well, it's going to be 10, maybe 12, maybe 15. You give half. And you have to ask for specifics and have a real conversation with your daughter. And you're in a

very tough situation now with the divorce. And now she's got two. And don't let the guilt right over that. Just say, baby, here's the deal. okay? Give me your budget. What do you want for your party? Let's just walk through it. Let's teach her. This is a teaching moment to go, yeah, I'd like to drive a Lamborghini, but I can't. And so I know you want a $10,000 party, but guess what? Me and mom can't do a $10,000 party, but we can make it an amazing party. And this is how much money I can give towards an amazing party. I think that's the conversation. Well, it's not, I think that's exactly how I would talk it over with my daughter, Josie. I'd get her wishlist, get real numbers. And then how can I meet her expectations in a much more budget conscious way? I think that's

where you start. It takes the pressure off because now you're dealing in reality and and then you go look babe this is what I can do yeah and this stuff Jason and I know it's such a cultural part right I can see it like I know that yeah it is and and I know like you know um and we I remember we had a guy call um I think it's from India in the wedding that he wanted to spend like half a million dollars right so like i i totally am aware that there are certain things culturally that the expectation is really big but culture should never outrule common sense but that's it too so i'm like it's and you could say that about the american culture right weddings or whatever like you could plug in other things so so you do have to there's going to be multiple areas jason within you that you're going to have to be like this oh this is not doesn't feel right it's not what I wanted but part of being a grown-up to Jason is looking at the numbers what Ken's saying and it's like here's just here's the reality

here's the reality of what we have and what we can and what I have and what I can do um and so coming back to you Jason you have a real number in your head that you feel like I can't afford you feel like a guy who's in control of his money situation. You sound really stable. What's the number that you go, if I set it on fire for my daughter, it wouldn't bother me. It wouldn't give me a Maalox moment. What is that number? Well, right now the big thing that is heavy on me is that I haven't even gotten into my investing portion of my life for the future. I get that, but you didn't answer my question. What's the number that you, if you know, I can give this money to my daughter and I'm not going to lose sleep over it?

As of now, I would say maybe for something like this, $3,000. Okay. Then now we've got a starting number. Yeah. I'm trying to coach you through this practically. You've got a number where you go, I know you don't want to spend any money because you think you're behind. You're not. You're going to be fine on your investing. You've got to weather this divorce.

You've got to figure out what the payments are going to be and all that, and you're going to restart. Okay? But you're okay. But if the number's $3,000 and you go, that's my baby girl. She wants this i can give her three grand then let's start with that then go get the itemized list let's see if we can you know get closer to it that's what i'm trying to do is get you to a point where you don't let guilt run the day and make a bad financial decision and i think the three thousand

is a common sense number would you agree i would say so yeah all right and your ex-wife's not gonna like it yeah so prep for that and your daughter may not like it she don't like you right now anyway so we're not losing that deal i mean i'm not trying to be insensitive i'm just keeping it real what are you gonna do make her not want to be married to you more? I mean, we've already crossed that bridge. So you got to stick to your guns, man, and get the itemized list. I'm in for you, Jason. Yeah, Jason, you're a good man. You're going to be fine. It's going to be a great party.

Yes. Rachel, by the way, will come do a dance or something. I'll come party. Send that request. 15-year-old girls. That'll be great. You'll tell a story. This is The Reign of Show.

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888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. Let's go to Preston who joins us now in Dallas, Texas. Preston, how can we help? Hey, how's it going, Ken? Thank you all for having me this morning. Sure.

You know I'm a married guy with three kids. We got a good income of about $185,000, $190,000 a year. But it seems like we are hemorrhaging money through our miscellaneous budget item and our food item. You know, we've got one car loan.'ve got about twelve thousand dollars left on that i've got some medical debt we had a child this year so we've got about six thousand dollars there and then we've got uh just some student loans left over uh that amount to about forty five hundred and then a mortgage that's about two hundred thousand left uh so total debt is about two hundred and twenty two thousand dollars uh we make you0,000, and it feels like at the end of the month, we just have nothing left. I really just kind of wanted to get some insight on what should a family spend, you know, monthly in a miscellaneous item, maybe in the food budget.

But we are just spending pretty much what we earn. And, you know, we've gone up in salaries over the last five years tremendously. We've doubled what we make, but we're still spending everything we make. And so I cannot figure out how to get over that hump. Yeah, it's the classic lifestyle creep, right? It's just a little bit here and there. And over time, that starts to become your norm. And then you just add a little bit more, add a a little bit more and then you look up and you're exactly yeah what you're saying um president are you guys doing a very detailed budget very detailed i am in accounting which is kind of ironic but i'm not good at accounting my own expenses uh but you know we we set a food budget of let's say 1500 to 2000 a month and then you sit there and go hey to $2,000 a month, and then you sit there and go, hey, we just spent $3,000 on food.

And you sit there and go, how are we doing that? Well, as George would like to not hear, we eat out all the dang time. Yeah, that's it. That's it. I mean, yeah. Let's just go out to eat a few years. I know. And we all know that we're going to spend way more there than we do eating at home.

But it's really just frustrating to be wiped out. Well, that's what's hard about this, Preston, is with personal finance, we always say it's 80% behavior, it's 20% head knowledge. So you have the head knowledge of the numbers down with the budget of here's what we're going to do. But then you guys are not living on the plan that you've created. You're going over $1,000 in food. You're throwing a few hundred bucks here or there throughout the month on all this other stuff. And so when you realize that it's more of a discipline problem with you guys

and the choices that you're making in everyday expenses, it is. It's sucking the life out of y'all. What I would do, Preston, I would challenge you guys to say, and you know what, if you hold on the line, I'm going to give you the premium version of EveryDollar because I think EveryDollar is one of the most helpful budgeting tools because it's going to be able to connect to your bank and you're going to be able to really be able to see in the way they do the paycheck planning and everything. It's a really well, be able to see in the way they do the paycheck planning and everything it's just it's a it's a really well easy thing to see and your wife can have the same login so you guys both have the app on your phone and i would practice preston acting

like you guys make 80 okay act like you're like you're making 80 grand and do a budget off of that and just see what see what happens say okay we then that means we have to way cut back here that means these you know 18 subscriptions we're paying for we can't do that uh that means maybe the kids that are doing the fun little gym classes every two days a week they're not going to do that anymore like you will have to cut back because i want you to take that 80 grand or more quote unquote i'm kind of just using a random number because I want you to take that 80 grand or more, quote unquote, I'm kind of just using a random number, but I want you paying off the student loan, the car loan. I mean, all these loans that you guys have besides your mortgage, you guys could get this knocked

out so quickly. And what I love about this, we always just call it gazelle intense because it is deep sacrifice. You are running like your hair's on fire. And it's like it is scorched earth. It's like we're doing nothing. We're doing nothing. And we're cutting back. And so that means maybe even cutting back more than 80. I was just saying as a fun mathematical game on the budget, just look to see what you would cut. Start there. And then I would trim back as much as you guys can, Preston, because I want you guys to feel progress with your money. And it feels like you're spinning your wheels. You got all this debt hanging around. You're living still paycheck to paycheck. And there's been no progress. And so in order to get these wins, there's some stuff in

lifestyle that you will cut. And it'll hurt. It will not be fun. And I know with a new baby, it's like you guys are all exhausted. I get it. But this is the time to do it, to buckle down and say it's now or never. It's for a short period of time because then when all that's gone, Preston, I mean, how much is going out in payments for this debt per month besides your mortgage? Do you have that? How much is going out just to debt? I do. So for our medical debt, we actually, we've got a high deductible insurance plan. So we've got an HSA that I've got that set up to wipe that out in the year to where, you know, that doesn't hang around. So that's automatically off the top. And then we've got my wife's car loan that we pay about $2,500 a month on it.

Holy crap. What kind of car is it? We're taking some chunks at this. Oh, you're paying extra. You're paying extra. Oh, okay. Payment's only $500. Okay, okay, okay.

Payment's only $500. Okay. But I think we've got more in the budget, but, you know, once we get to the end of the month to make an extra payment, it's not there. And it's just super frustrating. Yeah, I mean, it's because you're living like you're making $190 and spending everything. Yeah, so let's just look at this.

What's the smallest debt that you have? That'd be the student loans. We've got three of them for the Sally Mae loans, but they total about $4,500. Okay, so instead of focusing on the $12,000 car loan, focus on the student loan and go ahead and just get that knocked out. So what's the payment? What's the minimum payment on the student loan right now,

the three of them together, if they're all in a bunch? And that's the bad deal is you all know they're in forbearance, so we haven't even been paying on them. We've been just chunking at her car loan, and I know that's not what Baby Step 2 is for that gazelle intensity. Here's the point I'm trying to make. If you stay with this, if you stay with this and you work this plan, you guys cut, first of all, you need to stop eating out.

Like, no more. You guys got to stop. You got to get everybody on board. Eat turkey sandwiches at night. Do eggs and bacon for dinner. I mean, like, you can do cheap meals, right, for a season. It's not forever. You're an accountant.

Your issue is not the numbers. The issue is the behavior. And if you guys try it for one month and go, you know what, we're all in. We're not going to eat out one time at all just to see how much money you can save extra. And the point is we knock out the student loans, then we knock out the car pay, and all of a sudden you've got more margin than you realize. Here's the, I know you're discouraged, but you've got more margin in that budget than you realize. But you've got to change your spending habits. And if you do that, and if we can get some extra income, we sell some stuff in this debt snowball,

whatever we got, we can find margin pretty quickly. As detailed as you are, grasping the numbers, you and your wife have got to sit down and go, if we do this, and then we do this, and we do this like crazy for the next six, 12 months. Here's how much progress we'll make. And then all of a sudden you go, oh, this is doable. I think you're just discouraged right now. And Preston, I'll add on that for Ken, because this is always helpful for me. Whenever we're doing a big goal, so whether for you it's getting out of debt or it's saving up for something, look at the timeframe, run the numbers like what we're saying and just know and say, okay, we are confident, it's July right now say okay we are confident you know it's july right now so we are confident you know by dang christmas we're gonna be we're gonna do it from now till christmas it's just it's go time i mean or whatever the the date is but have that date because that gives you

the the light at the end of the tunnel that you're not going to like live in this world forever and ever amen you can actually enjoy what you're working but you're not enjoying your money now because again i think so much of it is this debt and so much of it is that lifestyle because once you guys pay this off do you have any savings at all preston do you guys have cash in the bank yeah we have some but not enough to to cover any of it how much we've got our emergency fund just to to start our emergency fund. Okay, so you've got $1,000. That's where you're at. Yeah. Can you sell your wife's car?

We're running out of time, but, I mean, you've got to look at everything, man. Selling cars, everything, you know? You've got to reduce your monthly payments and increase your income. So for you, my friend, I know you're an accountant, but there's a lot of gig work right now for accountants. I'd be working 60, 80 hours a week doing accounting work because you can get paid very well for freelance work. Income goes up. Expenses go down.

Let's get after this talk quick. Like get after it. And then you'll see some breathing room. And then you realize, okay, we can stay the course. Thanks for the call. You'll get there, Preston. This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order? Yes, I have, George.

Sketchy and never trust them. And that's why we recommend Delete.me. They help with that. Yeah, they do. Delete.me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites. And it is an incredible service that everyone needs. And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids' names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find. That's right. And then once they remove your information, then they're going to send you a detailed report telling you where they found your information, when they removed it, how many hours they've saved you. I mean, it is incredible. So detailed and it's beautiful. I love these reports. So far, get this, they've reviewed 27,000 listings on my

behalf, removed me from 240 data broker sites and saved me 77 hours of time. It's incredible. Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts, weird emails, spam calls, all of it. I love it. So you got to be sure to check them out. Ramsey fans get 20% off their annual plans. Just go to joindeleteeme.com slash Ramsey. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Super affordable. It's amazing. So again, that's joindeleteeme.com slash Ramsey. Make sure to check it out, you guys. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me as we are here taking your calls, 888-825-5225. We're talking about your life, whether that's your money situation, your work situation. We are here to help today. Let's go to Ogden, Utah.

Connor is there. Connor, how can we help? Yeah, thank you for taking my call. So my wife and I are about ready to move out of our home. We have a little daughter, and we're outgrowing it. So we've been looking at our options, and because my parents are so generous and we've been so blessed, they told us about a week ago that they were going to be giving all their kids an inheritance early so they could watch them spend it.

And the inheritance is about $300,000. Wow. Yeah. That's awesome. And so that opens up a lot of options for us. We have been kind of weighing in our heads. And one of the things is our current home is in a college town and we've been thinking about maybe just paying that off with $100,000 or $115,000 is what we owe on it still. And then renting it out and then using the other $200,000 as a down payment to our next house,

which would give us a comfortable house payment. But the other option is we thought maybe we would just sell this house now and take the $200,000 in equity and put it towards our next down payment, along with $300,000 or whatever to basically buy our next house in cash and not have a house payment. So we're just trying to figure out between those two options what would be maybe there's another option that I'm not thinking about either that you can fill me in on. No, not off the top of my head of what you guys want to do.

I mean, I think this is a really smart move and I think a beautiful way to honor your parents and the legacy and the inheritance that they're giving you. I'm sure they would appreciate seeing this versus taking 18 trips around the world or something. I don't know. There's something about it that is like, oh, there's like a stability. It's an investment. Which way are you leaning? I'm curious to know, are you two leaning the same way? One of you leaning one way, one leaning the other? My wife is leaning a little bit towards the renting. And I'm kind of honestly in the middle. I could see it either way. I like the idea of having the extra stream of income coming in every single month. But there's also that feeling of just

not having any debt at all with our next home. Yeah. And just being free and clear. Connor, do y'all want to be landlords? Like the idea of an investment property sounds like, oh, that sounds great. And yes, there's passive income. And I come from a real estate family. My husband loves real estate.

So like I get it. But because of that, I also know all of the work that goes in. And then you said college town, that I'm sure you can find a great group of college students to run it out but you're also renting it out to college students so um or possibly you could obviously not do that but i mean the landlord thing it's that's not just a oh yeah that's cool and fun i mean it ends up kind of being a part-time job and if you're working full-time i'll be honest it may land into your wife's lap of her having to go and fix this the sink breaks and they you know like it's it's a it's a too. So I just want you guys to keep in mind. So it is a great way to have passive income. But if I were you, I would just be free

and clear. And then if you guys want to save up because you won't have a mortgage if you just sold it and then paid cash for your primary residence, yeah, I mean, that's phenomenal. Then you could save up a lot. And if you guys chose to go into real estate investing, then you could and start small, maybe even a different location. Right.

Yeah, so fun little exercise. How much do you think you could get per month for that house in the college town? If you paid it off with some of this inheritance, how much? $1,350 is about what the rent would be. Okay, so again, what's that going to end up being? $18,000, $19,000, $20,000? I'm not really great at math, but somewhere in that range, right?

Mm-hmm. $15,000, $16,000, something like that. So you have to sit there with your wife and go, okay, here's the income that this would spit off, but that doesn't include the expenses that Rachel was touching on. It's not going to just be that. It's not going to be free and clear $15,000 to $18,000.

You're going to have to replace carpet in three years. You're going to probably repaint the wall. I mean, it's just, yeah, it's a thing. I learned that one from George. I was with George. George Campbell threw that at a caller the other day. I was like, that's a really good exercise because it's like, is it worth?

Is it worth all the work? Let's just call it net, just for easy numbers, $14,000 a year. You're going to have expenses. You're just going to. And you got all of this for $14,000? And to Rachel's point, what's the tradeoff on a huge down payment or buying a house cash in this point in your marriage so i'd get rid of the house too i really would okay it's just but i mean you got

to sit down with your wife and cast yeah and there's not i don't think there's a wrong answer here that's correct something because one of them's gonna be paid off if you were gonna still have debt on an and debt on a primary residence i would tell you to get rid of it hands down but uh for it being paid off, there's not, yeah, it's not right or wrong. It's just truly where you guys want to put your time and your efforts. You know, if it's, if it's my dad or my husband, they're probably going to keep it because they love real estate and they're like, oh, it is worth it because of, you know, they just, it's part of what they love. But to me, I'm like, and the college, oh man,

I just remember that I remember renting a house in college. Mm-hmm. Oh, man. I know. Winston lived with like six guys in a rented house. It's disgusting. I'm already disgusted. It was terrible.

Oh, yeah. Lock parties. Terrible. Games and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. We were good renters, though. My group of friends. We were very clean.

We took care of that house. All right. I was an old soul. Yeah. Well. In the college days. care of that house. I was an old soul. In the college days. I think you're still an old soul. Not as old as me, though, apparently. Not quite north of the border. Like, goodness.

Melissa's up in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Don't get me started on Chattanooga. Melissa, how can we help? Hi, Rachel. Hi, Ken. It is a pleasure to speak with you today. I'm so grateful. I'm in a situation now. I have a possible fork in my career path, and I'm hoping you can kind of help me unpack it a little bit. Sure. So what's going on? I had my quarterly check-in with my supervisor today. Now, it's kind of a backstory. We work

for a big company who has two retail locations. I work for the smaller of the two, and it's quite a bit smaller. I manage, I oversee it, and I have three teammates who work for me. So we've been working really, really hard for a few years now, even through COVID and all of that on expanding, growing, providing more service for people. And we're at the point where the company or the building that we rent, we're possibly having our lease being bought out by somebody else who shares the building. Now, we're not in a position where we can rent a new location. We've got a really sweet deal with this building. So what it sounds like, I've got probably a 60% to 75% chance that we are going to close my location. And we're going to be absorbed into the bigger location.

My teammates will blend just fine. The thing that we run into is my position. My director is super awesome, super supportive, and really thinks that there is a cost of progression for me to take her position as she plans to exit the company in the next two to three years. I'm not so confident, but I'm also kind of interested. I think maybe it would be a huge leap from assistant manager to director, but I'm just not sure what I want to think right now. It's a lot. I get it. So what would the interim look like?

So if they shut this down, the smaller location where you're in a manager position, and then you go to the bigger location and you're underneath that director, what role are you in? Are you making the same amount of money? We just started discussing that. It would be a new role created for me, sort of a GM in training, along with whatever else. So I actually get a legit paycheck with a legit job at the other location while I'm training and helping the business grow, but also learning the ropes of being a director over there. Okay. If you knew that the path was two to three years, it was guaranteed you were going to replace her, would you be on the phone with us? I'm pretty sure it could happen. I'm just not sure if it's

the right choice for me. That's what I'm asking. Okay. So you're not sure if that's the long-term play for you. And I love that. So how soon is a decision going to be made where you're going to have to choose? I got about 30 seconds, so give me the quick answer. We're looking at probably end of year. We'll know what's going to happen with the lease. All right, so here's what I would do. And then I have to decide if I'm staying or going. All right, so here's what I would do.

I would spend time right now thinking about your long-term future, knowing that you have a safe option to at least take this for the interim while you still figure this out. Okay, so I just want you to breathe. Stay with the company while you still figure this out. Okay. So I just want you to breathe, stay with the company until you figure it out long-term. Hang on the line. Let's get you an assessment, the Get Clear Career Assessment. I'll give that to you, a link and a code. I want you to take that as you consider long-term what your options are, but I'm glad you're stable right now. Thank you for the call. This is The Randy Show.

There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on. Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a Baby Steps millionaire.

So get started on the American dream of home ownership today at churchillmortgage.com. That's churchillmAccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. RentWin Tennessee 37027. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Rachel Cruz. Thrilled you are with us.

The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Levi joins us next in Reno, Nevada. Levi, how can we help? How are you all doing today? Well, we're having a blast, Levi. What's up? Well, I wanted to say thank you first off.

Started listening to you guys about six months ago, and it's really made an impact. Awesome. I can't actually. Just started binging yours. Looking to change careers soon, but that has to do with my questions. Yeah, great. So I've never been married, and I've got a girl who I want to propose to. Where does that fall on the baby steps as far as buying a ring,

and how much should someone spend? I just finished paying off all my debt last week. Wow, congratulations. Congratulations. Congratulations. How much did you pay off? It was about, I'd say about $20,000 in six months. Nice. Levi, congratulations.

That's impressive. What's your emergency fund going to be? Three or six months? Four months? Five months? And how much will that be? Right now, it could be very little. I'm in a unique situation where I don't have rent, which is how I paid everything off so quick.

Awesome. But which rent in this area? $20,000 would be a good one. Okay. All right. How much are you thinking on the ring? We have Rachel here, which I feel like is an expert on this. When it comes to jewelry, she's the expert in the room.

No, I think our rule of thumb is one month's Salary Is what we would Recommend And where does that fall As far as should I be focusing On getting that emergency Fund before spending You know $3,000

Um It'd be nice to have some But also I'm like We don't $3,000? It'd be nice to have some, but also, I'm like, we don't tell people to stop the baby steps to get married and to do all this, so if you can do both at the same time, save some money for the emergency fund and then be saving on the side, too, for the ring.

How long have you been dating her? It would be ideal. I've been with her for two and a half years. We actually lived together, and her elderly parents, who did not know anything about Ramsey, lived with us. Oh, boy. That was a loaded chuckle. That was a loaded chuckle. What does that mean?

They had no money saved up. One of them actually needs to be in a nursing home. We can't afford it. So in all seriousness now, I'm assuming that she's going to say yes, right? You feel pretty confident we're going to get a yes out of this. Is there expectations for the parents of you all to continue to live together and for you all to have to take care of them, that's a pretty heavy burden. Yes, it's a package deal.

She's from Guam. It's just kind of their culture. Got it. And you're all in on this? Yes. Okay. All right. That's great.

Yeah, so Levi, to answer your question I would just I would do both but um well now that I know what I know Rachel I'm going to tell him to wait get the emergency fund fully funded they're living together you you know I mean what are we going to wait a couple more months I'd wait and get the emergency fund well Mike you're basically married you're playing married so I want you married as soon as possible oh Oh, I see what you're doing there. Yeah, I'd go quicker. I would say save it up. You can pick a slush fund in the budget. Yep, yep, and just put some money aside.

Yes. Well, you guys want a wedding, or are you guys kind of low-key with it and no big deal? I'm definitely low-key. Yeah? She will want some kind of ceremony. Okay. I've never been married. She has been will want some kind of ceremony. Okay. I've never been married. She has been.

Okay. So the ceremony is important, but very, very inexpensive. Yeah, that's great. So be cash flowing that as well. And then once you guys get married, combining your incomes and all of this, and if you have anything left to build up the emergency funds, do that. But I would, yeah, I'd get married as soon as i would i would get married yeah you guys know do you know where you're gonna get registered

he has no idea what i just said do you even know what that means i don't oh that's so great i knew it well uh she can explain it to you it's where married that's where engaged couples they they go and they put their gifts together old man i just think that's where you get registered i could tell i think it's funny because levi is so naive and i think that that's really great he doesn't understand about all the stuff he's about ready to get into they're older we got married young so the registering was really exciting the younger you are i feel like the more exciting that stuff is i just thought it was funny i didn't i did brought no redeeming value at all i agree let's go to david in fredericksburg virginia david

how can we help uh yeah i wanted your take on a reverse mortgage i'll be turning 65 next year and getting tired of construction work. Wondering if I could go part-time and use a reverse mortgage so that I can stay at the house that we had built for a few years longer. No, David. No, we do not recommend reverse mortgages because it does exactly what it says. It puts you back in reverse. You guys are progressing, paying off your house and building this equity,

and you're going to start right back over. And so it is a product that is marketed to 60 plus, you know, whenever you look at any, even, I mean, seriously. No, that's true. Seriously, David. Yes, that's what I'm calling.

Because it's doing exactly what you are thinking. It's like, oh, that's kind of nice. I can pull back from work, all of that. And it's not the way to go because you're going to be losing equity in it. And it's not smart, not smart at all. So what, David, you said you're 64? I'll be 65 in January.

Okay, okay. And how much do you guys have left on the mortgage? We've got left on it about 180 and it's valued at almost 500. Oh, nice. Do you guys have any other debt? Oh yeah. Yeah. We've, we've had the land forever. We got about 20,000 in debt. Okay. We keep paying off and going on vacation and running back up and then paying it off. Okay. David. Okay. Listening to you guys has been a good sin. Good. How much do you guys make a year? We make about $65,000 a year.

$65,000. Okay. Is it all credit card debt? Yes. Well, yes, it is credit card debt. Because here's the thing too, David. And that might be high on the credit card debt. Because here's the thing, too, David. And that might be high on the credit card debt. It's probably more like about $10,000.

Okay. So what's the other debt of the $20,000? What else do you owe? Maybe some medical and the wife. We've been budgeting quite well. So it's something that we've learned over the years to uh try and keep a control on that spending beast okay and david do you guys have anything in retirement about 30 40 thousand dollars okay um okay i've got i've got some property that I'll be selling. Okay.

I've had it for years. And by all means, I'll start selling some of my heavy equipment that I've got that haven't been using. Okay. So if you sell the land, liquidate property or liquidate the machines, everything, how much do you think you'll come out? Probably close to $300,000. Oh. Okay. Nice. probably close to 300,000 oh okay nice because I'm just thinking of your retirement and you guys long term

because I know you probably want to pull back from working for sure but these the habits that you guys have been in David like you said like well we go on vacation we pay some stuff off we go back all this this reverse mortgage it's going to just magnify the bad habits that you guys have created so it's not going to be good for you in any sense it's not a great it's it's a terrible um situation in general

but also when you when you guys are not you're not being disciplined in it and so i would if i were you and your wife i would sit down and really map out a plan and say okay we are 65 years old we owe 180 still in the mortgage. You got $30,000 in retirement, $20,000 in debt. And it's time to really start cleaning this up, David. I mean, honestly, be paying off this debt as quickly as possible. You guys need some savings in the bank for an emergency fund. And then we're going to start piling on retirement and whether that means selling the land early to get some money in. But I want to be able to map out, I want you to be able to map out a plan to get you to retirement. And reversing the mortgage doesn't do that. It gets you back into a horrible situation. You're

not pressing forward when you do that. Yeah. Great advice there. And hey, you still got time and you've got some assets that you're going to be able to get a windfall of cash. So really dive into the baby steps. Really walk it out. Hey, David, hold on the line. Austin's going to pick up and give you guys a free trial at the Financial Peace University. I want you and your wife to go through it. That'll do it for this hour of the Ramsey Show. Thank you so much for being with us.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, specifically in your money life, your work life, and in your relationship life. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. It's a toll-free number, not toll-free. Toll-free, actually. Made up a word there. It's always fun when you're in a hurry, right? Toll-free, 888-825-5225 i'm ken coleman

rachel cruz is about to make fun of me go ahead well toll free i feel like that's like what we used to hear back in the day like on tv when it was like a call for this product i'm an old radio guy there's a yeah the internet everybody Everybody pretty much knows it's toll-free. You're going to give us a P.O. box to write to, Ramsey? Yeah. And make sure you go to www.ramseysolutions.com if you're a new listener. We've got a new listener survey that'll help you catch up. Remember, that's www. Just kidding.

AOL keyword, Ramsey. AOL. That's right. I don't know why I say that. I think it's an old radio ad. Toll-free. Nobody even knows what that means. What don't know why I say that. I think it's an old radio hat. Toll free. Nobody even knows what that means. What is that? Do I have to pay a toll to call? I know. It means it's a free call. Just Grandpa can. All right. Have you had enough? See if Shelby...

Are you feel good about yourself? I feel good. I feel good, Grandpa. All right, good. Thank you very much. Shelby is on the line in Sacramento. Shelby, how can we help? Hi, thanks for taking my call. So my question is about when do you decide to put paying debt on the back burner, I guess. I have a lifestyle right now that's completely unsustainable. I have a three-month-old and a 15-month-old. I have no childcare and I am also working part-time 25 hours for a week from home and balancing those two things has been impossible. And, um, currently my kids are really suffering, honestly, sorry. Um, because my job is so demanding that I'm not there for that the way I want to be. And I want to leave my job, but my job is paying for our debt repayment, you know, almost in full. And so if I were to quit my job and be at home with my kids

full time, it would significantly delay our ability to pay off our debt. And so I'm kind of just, I feel kind of trapped one way or another. Okay. Well, Rachel, I'll walk you through the numbers on this, but you guys can still get through this, but you can't get through it, period, if you're burning out emotionally. And I am. I know. We can tell. And I just wanted to tell you, you're enough. You're doing fine.

You're busting it. You guys will figure this out. But there was a season of life where Stacy was, was working and to help bring in extra income. I was going for it and my income was, was much lower. I took a strategic sacrifice and we went through something similar like this and she was trying to help in which we had three kids under the age of three. And I gotta tell you, you know, I, I, I was an idiot for not realizing it sooner.

And I just said, Hey, I'll make up the difference. But what matters right now is that you, the nerve center, the CEO, you know, the mama, the wife, you have got to just be home taking care of the kiddos. So I certainly empathize with what you're feeling. I just want to tell you, you're not a bad mom. Those kids are okay. You've not done any damage to them up to this point. That's all I wanted to say.

Thank you. I appreciate that. So good. Okay, so Shelby, how much are you bringing in with your job? I bring in about $2,000 after taxes. Sometimes I work a little bit more, but that's kind of the average right now. Okay. And what about your husband? He brings home about $5,200. Okay. And how much debt do you guys have? We have $30,000. It's just two cars.

I shouldn't say just. It's still $30,000 in debt. It was two cars. And currently, if I were to continue working, we'd be able to pay off all of our debt in a year. Okay. Okay. Curious real quick, what does he do for a living? He is a construction design manager. I'm so sorry. I don't know if you can hear my kids.

You're fine. You're fine. You're talking to two people who have three kids each. We've been there. It sounds like it's beautiful place at our house all the time, screaming and crying. You're fine. You're fine. All the time. Yes. All the time. But my husband is a team lead, technically, for a construction design company. He is in the process of requesting a raise, but it hasn't happened yet, and we're not sure if that's going to be possible. Is he pretty handy, though? So, handy, no. So, he does computer work.

He is not a construction guy. She's like, nope. Join the club because you're talking to the chief non-handy guy right here. I can barely change the toilet paper, you know. And I have to get instructions out. I do my own oil changes. My husband can't. Oh, there you go.

Shelby. Shelby, you're a really sweet lady. Please don't tell anybody that again. What do you do? So I work for a nonprofit. I'm the program manager so i run day-to-day operations and it is not what i want to be when i grow up sure sure okay well so the good thing is i mean the numbers are not crazy shelby you guys don't have two hundred thousand dollars of student loans and it's going to take you eight years you know what i mean like

this is doable what you're saying is like instead of going paying it off in a year it may take two years because you have two little kids at home and you guys are trying to figure out or he goes i i wonder could he make a thousand dollars extra a month yes or two thousand if he makes two thousand i'm not putting this pressure on him rachel but if he makes two thousand a month through side hustles or something then he fixes this issue. He's fine. He replaces your take home. So he needs to make $2,000 after tax and we don't miss a beat and you're with the babies. Or Shelby with your administration

skills like you could do like be an online assistant for one person for 12 hours a week. You know and it's something small and you bring in half of what you're doing. Just bring in $1,000. And that would still be something. Yes, totally. And then he matches it and then you guys do it or you guys back it off a little bit and

it's 18 months. So you paid off versus a year. Like you're okay. Nothing is on fire here. And we do celebrate the urgency of getting out of debt on the show. Like we, we love it because when people taste that freedom, they are like, they're all in. Right. And for some people, it takes them longer because of income, because of stage of life.

I mean, all of it, right? So this has to play with who you are. And if you're at this point where you're like, I don't want to do this all the time. Like, I'm exhausted. This is not fun. You know, there's going to be points of that in sacrifice, period. But for the long game, you don't want that for the long game. So, yeah, I mean, I would be great if you guys pulled back a little bit.

Again, like Ken said, if he could supplement something on the side just for like two nights a week, you do some assistant work, be a virtual assistant, bring in $1,000 a month or something, you're going to be able to get through this. Are you guys just curious, are the cars, would you be upside down in the cars if you sold one or both or what's the situation? That's a good point too. Yeah. So unfortunately we, we bought these cars when we were young and didn't know anything about money. So we're have negative equity in both of them. That's fine. You're going to pay them off.

Yeah. The plan is to pay them off and then sell one of them because we don't need two cars. You're great. I can tell you right now, Shelby, I can sense to pay them off and then sell one of them because we don't need two cars. You're great. I can tell you right now, Shelby, I can sense a difference in your voice from the start of the call to now. Yeah, I feel better. I think you called asking for permission. You didn't need it. But you've got to take care of you. And what's your husband saying?

What's his take on all this? He agrees. You know, I think he's really stressed about the amount of debt we have, but at the same time, I have a wonderful husband, and he really just wants me to be okay. Yeah, me to be okay and the kids to be okay. Hey, he can make more money. He can make more money.

I'm telling him, go watch this on YouTube. Hey, listen, bro, you can make more money than you're making. I know you can. You just got too much skill, too much experience. You can take this burden off your wife. It's going to be a win for everybody. But you guys are fine. And it's for a year to 18 months to 24 months.

This isn't forever. Short time, short period. I kind of miss the screaming baby face just for about a second. Come to my house, Ken. Then I get over it. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back, America. You've joined the conversation here on The Ramsey Show. Welcome back, America. You've joined the conversation here on The Ramsey Show about your life,

specifically your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz this hour. We are here for you. Let's get back to the phones. In Phoenix, Arizona, Ray is waiting. Ray, how can we help? Hi there.

Thanks so much for taking my call. You bet. I am on baby step one and I'm struggling because I don't necessarily know how to manage that feeling of insecurity. I keep getting of only putting a thousand dollars in my emergency fund and then moving on to baby step two. Oh, that's just a really good question. So tell us what you are specifically worried about. Cause I feel like I heard you say, I'd like to have more than $1,000 saved.

Is that what this is really about? It's exactly how I'm feeling. I'm feeling like even when I do get $1,000 in it, I'm not going to have my budget where it's cut out, where I'm spending every single dollar every month. I'm scared something will come up and $1,000 isn't enough to cover it, and I'll be back in a spot where I've got to take out debt. Okay, so do you have margin? It feels like you've got margin in your budget right now.

I do. What kind of margin do you have? It's going to be fluctuating throughout the year, but I'd say it's a good chunk once I start getting rolling on my debt snowball. What's a good chunk? What was that? What is a good chunk when you say that? What does that mean? Is that $200? Is that $2,000? So it's going to fluctuate. Yeah. Some months it will be like $300. Some months it can be up to $5,000. Okay, perfect. And how much debt do you have? $65,000. $65,000. What is that debt?

$55,000 in student loans, $3,000 on personal loans, and then $7,000 on a car loan. Okay. And how much are you making a year? $85,000, in between $85,000 and $105,000. Nice. Good for you. Yeah, good for you. That's great.

So, yeah, I mean, I think part of that $1,000 emergency funds, there is going to be a level of angst and urgency, which makes people go through the baby steps, baby step two that much faster, because they're like, Oh, my gosh, I feel like if something were to happen, but the truth is right, majority of emergencies that we see, whether it's new tires on a car, you know, whatever it is, most of it is under $1,000. So majority of it is. And if not, all you do is you pause the debt snowball, stake current on everything, pile up some cash with what you need fixed and fix it. And so just having the idea that there's going to be no debt, that debt is not an option, you find a way to get through it all you find a way like you really do

so if it's the car that's breaking down you go and get three options and you fix the small part that you can to get trucking along to you save up to fix the rest i mean you just you figure you figure it out and so the problem is that debt has just become such a safety net for people that mentally you can't even imagine you know not having the credit card just in case of an emergency. And so that $1,000 will cover most of the stuff that you need. And if it doesn't, you just pause, pile up some cash and go through it. And Ray, here's the deal. I love how Rachel explained that because if you think about that and she's right factually, most of those emergencies are under $1,000. But I got to the point when I first started this many, many years ago, Rachel, I didn't want to touch the emergency fund. And my first step was not to touch the emergency fund. It was to rework the budget. Yeah, totally.

We paid our four walls. But I mean, I would go, can I cash flow this without touching the emergency fund? And Ray, with the margin you're talking about, gave us a range of 300 on the low end to maybe 5,000 because you've got you know a little bit different income flow you're gonna be able to be okay and I remember one time I'll give you one more story here just to just to drive this home psychologically I remember it was early on and Stacy and I we had no kids and we bought our first house here in Franklin and we were on this journey. We had student loan debt. That was the only debt we had. And so we were working it and going after it and all this stuff,

and our HVAC went out. And I mean, I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. I'd never been through this before. Didn't know what to expect. It freaked me out for a minute. And I got the guy out there, and he was like, all right, here's the deal. We can do a small fix, and this will get you through. And then I started figuring out, okay, if I have to buy a new one,

how much would that cost? And by just not freaking out and realizing I didn't have to pay anything right now, I didn't have to get out a credit card and go buy a new unit. There was a way to work through it, cash flow it, and us not go backwards. And we never missed a debt payment

that we were paying extra on the loans. Here's my point. When something like that happens, you can always pause and figure it out you can talk to the people that you get the service from hey let me get on a you know a plan here you know yeah it's not the end of the world i think everybody thinks i gotta have that credit card i gotta have i mean we get this call a lot when someone's got let's say they've got forty thousand dollars rate in their savings account and they call us up and they got $38,000 in debt, and we go, empty it. Pay it. Pay it now.

Ray, you just felt it right there, didn't you? Yeah. And so this is advice we give all the time because most of those emergencies, the point we're making is you can manage your way through it. You can. And, Ray, I mean, a big part of this too is feeling this intensity of getting out of debt. I mean, like we talk about the behavior change aspect of all of this and you have to do something different to get a different result. And you obviously are at a point that you're not happy with where you are financially. So you want to change your habits. You want to change the way

you're looking at it. And the more, the faster you attack this debt and it is gone and it's out of here, which, you know, you're going to, you know, if you guys buckle down and you work extra, you make some more. I mean, you know, to be able to get this paid off in what, probably three years, there's something powerful about having this intensity towards that baby step two, which is really key. And so we want that thousand dollars fast. We tell people 30 days or less, get that, sell stuff, do is really key. And so we want that $1,000 fast. And we tell people 30 days or less, get that, sell stuff,

do whatever you can, get $1,000 and move on because you want this momentum to start. And the more you kind of like placate, okay, well, we need like 5,000. It's going to take us six months to save it up. And it just drags the process on as your income continues to go to payment. So getting to that baby step two quickly and going through it as quickly as possible is really the,

is your best bet to building wealth from getting to point A to point B, getting your income backwards. Yours is one of the biggest things you can do. So it's the fastest way. And again, Ray, you're, you're a grown,

you're a grownup. You can decide, you can get off the call and decide to do what you want. But this has just been proven over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Yeah. You know what you need, Ray? I think Rachel's right. You know what you need?

You need a big win in the next week. So what's the smallest debt? Was it the $3,000 personal loan? One is $1,000 left on it, and one is $ and one is 2 000 okay so the debt snowball you're familiar with this yes yes all right how quickly could you pay off that one thousand dollar chunk how quickly i've i've budgeted it in for september nah that's that's i appreciate that i said let's just have some fun here see if we can get you some momentum what could you do ray side something here there sell some stuff how what could you do to get a thousand dollars outside of your current

income before end of september what could you do uh yeah i mean i'm i need to sell my vehicle and i could easily have that done no that's selling the vehicle i'm not saying we got to jump to that because that's one of your what's that vehicle worth uh i think it'd be i think it's worth around like 8 000 right now and i've got 7 000 left on it yeah but then you got then you don't have a car i have another vehicle that i get it it's a work vehicle that i can use for the ray of hope we needed oh i see what she did there, folks. A little word play. Do it, Ray. Do something crazy.

Sell it. Sell the car. You'll get $1,000. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. You'll have $8,000. We knock out two debts with that one sale. What's your car payment right now on that?

$2.35, and I'm paying $1.50 in insurance. Boom. You just gave yourself a raise yeah the car's gone the personal is gone you're taking a little bit out of that student loan and you're on i mean you're getting there ray you with us yeah it's just it's hard i haven't even got through baby step one though that's the hard part i just need to do it. Sell the car and get Baby Step 1 done. Yeah. Dude, rip the Band-Aid off. Just do it.

You've got to just decide. It's one of these things. It's going to feel so good. Gosh, who was I watching on Instagram? It was some health guy. He was like, oh, no. No, you know who it was? It was Tony Robbins talking about his workout or something.

Oh, yeah. And he's like, there's no negotiating. You just do it. You just have to do it. There's no negotiating. Yeah. Just, just, just move. Just do it. Just do it. So Ray, well, Tony Robbins. Cold plunge. Just do it. Jump in the cold water. Just do it. It's going to be great. By the way, I love what you did there. What? I'm going to call this segment Wordplay with Ray. I see what you did there. You remember what you did? Yes, I do. I call you Ray. All right, folks. Ray's going to do it. It's going to be fun. How many of you need to just do it? I love it. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.

I'm joined by my colleague, Rachel Cruz. This this hour the phone number for you to jump in is toll free it is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five we'll take your questions related to your money of course and then got some job and work questions income related questions we're here to help and taking on a topic that I don't think is new to anybody if you're talking about money and you're thinking about money it's money fights Rachel money fights and I've been married 25 years you're how long you and Winston how many years I'll be 14 14 so combined we've got a lot of money fights that you and I represent. In all those years, everybody has the money fights. And a fascinating article you've got, headline,

Why Do Couples Really Fight About Money? What is going on here? What do we know? Yeah, so this is interesting. So this came out from psychologytoday.com. And it says, yeah, talk to anyone about their relationships with their partners, and you'll discover that every couple has disagreements. So in an attempt to identify the contents of financial issues

uh i said this name i said that i think the name wrong oh pete's is that what you would say yeah yeah they did a study the two studies conducted yep two studies study one they gathered descriptions of fights about money from posts on reddit god god bless you uh from this large pool of data they were able to identify two overreaching themes when it came to money arguments, Ken. One was concerns about fairness. Number two was perceived responsibilities. And many of them identified these issues falling under these two overreaching themes. They list some more of the issues down below. And then they did a second study where they gathered data,

a financial conflict from couples in a committed relationship, and two overarching themes happened in study two. Concerns about fairness and responsibility reemerged. And additionally, new con was mundane expenses, the conflict of that, which was related to disagreements about minor purchases,

such as how much money you should spend a birthday party oh 100 or yeah who can pay for uh yeah related expenses so car really yeah no car related expenses so here's the thing i identify with that one because we joked about this i think last time we were on the air i get a little irritated at stacy spending money on little gifts. Ken's not a giver. I am a giver, but women just find reasons to buy gifts. And so I remember early on. Now it's not a big deal.

I'm talking early on when we were really trying to figure all this out. Oh, sure, sure. I'm talking early in marriage. Yes. Listen, I said I've been married 25 years. I've long since learned to let that go, or I wouldn't be married this long. So this was a long time ago, but I do remember that little things like, well, we're spending this much on this little party.

There's another one that got us. When the kids were little, they get invited to birthday parties. You're in the thick of this now. At least the two girls are getting invited to birthday parties all the time. I'm going to venture to say that both your girls get invited to five to ten parties a year minimum. Sure. True story? Yes.

All right, but that adds up. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's why I love Amazon, because you can get really cheap gifts. And you have some good content on this on Instagram, at Rachel Cruz. Check it out. I know, because you could easily spend, you know, for these toys that these kids want. It's ridiculous.

50 bucks, easy. It 50 bucks easy so i'm like no we're gonna lower that okay so here's what's interesting about what they found though ken the first study concerns about fairness and perceived responsibility i think tell me if i'm being naive if you can if you had all of your money together as a married couple like we talk about there's not technically fairness because you're seeing it all together right it doesn't matter who brings in the income. The amount of money that hits our account is ours. That's right.

And then perceived responsibility. We're all responsible for all the bills together because we're one. It's actually perceived irresponsibility. And so if you look at that, so what they're saying is you're being irresponsible with debt. You're being irresponsible in planning. These were the things that came up that created conflict. So they were perceiving that their spouse was irresponsible in the areas of impulses, of course, gambling, broken promises.

And then under fairness, I pointed this one out, terms of arrangement, such as should we combine finances? And we talked about that a lot. You know, if you look at another one under fairness, contributions, you know, who's paying these expenses? And it's like, that all goes away if you do what Ramsey Solutions and what we believe, which is we're all on the same team. It's not your money.

It's our money. Yes, yes. So pretty interesting. Okay, but perceived, why does it say perceived responsibilities up here? Or, yeah, anyways. Well, are you responsible or irresponsible? So what I'm seeing is the findings were... So not just specifically about what bills you're responsible for. That's right. It's more about are you responsible or irresponsible as it relates to debt, budgeting. But here's the point.

The reason I point that out is because a lot of tension there when one of them, this comes back to what our basic teaching as we begin to move people through Financial Peace University is the nerd or the spender. And so the idea is there can be tension there because the nerd, the natural saver, thinks that you're being irresponsible and you go, slow your roll. I'm not irresponsible. I'm just trying to live life and have fun. Yep.

Yep. 100%. 100%. Well, what's interesting too about that is I'm like, to live life and have fun. Enjoy. Yep. Yep. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Well, and what's interesting too about that is I'm like, even the nerd could actually be the spender. And like, that's mom and dad. Dad is the nerd, but he's way the spender. My mom is a little bit more of the free spirit, doesn't care about the budget, but she's the saver. So you combine all these, this twisting of everything and it's all braided together there in marriage and having to figure it out so yeah i mean but this is a big thing you guys because under all of that is budgeting impulse spending

gambling broken promises planning debt so all of that for the most part overarching can't i hate to say fixed because i know it's just never quote-unquote fixed but it can be this level that yeah we actually are way more on the same team. When you communicate, you sit down and you talk about it. So all of that, it's just fascinating. And then, yep, all of the mundane expenses, which I tend to spend more money on. So you take that. That's where our stuff comes in.

That's right. But it's really, you nailed it there. I mean, that's what the study finds. That's where the tension lies. And so to the extent that you can go, all right, so responsibility, irresponsibility, what I'm feeling. This is a conversation to go, I feel this because this is the way I'm wired with money. Know Yourself, Know Your Money, a fabulous book that you wrote, really does help unpack stuff like this to know, wait a second, how I perceive money may be very different than how my spouse perceives money, but that's important to understand because that's where tension arises. A hundred percent. And going into those conversations, you guys, with, this is one

thing I feel like I've just learned over and over. It's humility. Like, I feel like I know what's right and I feel like I know what's good, but what if I don't know everything? And same with the spouse. Like if you both come in and say yeah i i feel like i can learn so i i want to learn i want to hear what you have to say and you both come in like that like that's a totally different emotional take than i'm coming in with what i want what i know is right it's like these absolutes that i think really get us in trouble ken and there's probably so many other areas of marriage but especially with money like if you are the spender go in with the saver with your spouse and be like what are they feeling what

like because maybe they actually have wisdom going on within them that i can learn from and then savers same thing like go to your spender and say gosh what are areas of me that probably need control uh i have a level of scarcity, you know, like these things that could be negative on your side, what can you learn from your spouse? But that humility piece, I think putting the pride aside. That's really good. I wrote down four words just looking at the study. Do they all have the same beginning letter? No, they don't. Oh man, Ken. But it starts off that way. I wrote down same page, same account. I think the key to not having a bunch of big fights, same page. That means what do we believe about debt?

What do we believe about saving? Like, are we on the same page? Gambling, right? That's right. Are we on the same page? It doesn't mean that we agree on everything, but it means we're on the same page. Stacey and I have realized this in parenting. I know you and Winston are in the middle of this.

You're learning your parenting styles. And as the kids get older, the conflict gets greater and your styles come out. And it's, we have learned that, and I think this is true of money. Stacey and I aren't always on the same line. There's lots of lines on the page, but we are on the same page. And I think with money, I think it's as complex as parenting. There's a lot of stress in parenting too. And so I think if you're on think it's as complex as parenting. There's a lot of stress in parenting too. And so I think if you're on the same page, we may not always want to be on the exact same line, the same word, but we agree this is where we are on the same page. And I think that allows us to then go, okay, we do need to be on the same account. I'm still flabbergasted, Rachel,

by the amount of couples that may be on the same page, but still have separate accounts. And that creates all kinds of weirdness. And I don't know that you could truly be on the same page but still have separate accounts. And that creates all kinds of weirdness. All the time. I don't know that you could truly be on the same page if you have separate accounts. If you're paying for separate bills to run one household, that's just weird to me. Yeah, it's weird. It doesn't help you get on the same page for goals, shared goals, a shared future. So really interesting stuff, Rachel.

Hey, we're here to help you. Don't move. We've got to do a few commercials. We're coming right back. You better be here when we get back. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Rachel Cruz.

Thrilled to have you with us today. Our scripture of the day is Proverbs 12, 17. An honest witness tells the truth, but a false witness tells lies. Our quote of the day from Robin Williams, but in character, apparently. This is a twist. I saw that. I thought, is that real? But it is. Did you ever see Mrs. Doubtfire? I owned it in a VHS tape. Oh, well, that's very nice. This is Mrs. Doubtfire as played by the incomparable Robin Williams. I admire that honesty, Natalie. That's a noble quality. Never lose that because it often disappears with age or entering politics. Well said, Mrs. Doubtfire. That's great. I tried to do, I was trying to think of the little coup that he did as her voice. What was the name?

Ooh, Natalie. God, that was such a good movie. It was a great movie. Man, I need to go back and re-watch that one again. Fantastic character. Sally Fields, man. Yeah, and who wouldn't do that? What dad wouldn't do that to be close to his kids?

So there you go. Natalie, excuse me, Natalie was in the character. Nick, actually. Wow, words and everything's hard for me in this last hour. I don't know what's going on. Nick is on the line in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Nick, how can we help? Hi.

Thank you for taking my call. I'm just calling. I just got married three days ago. Oh. Congratulations. Please hold on a second. You're not calling us from the honeymoon, are you? No.

Actually, I'm at work, and we didn't take a honeymoon. All right, very good. Very good. Good for y'all. Well, anyway, so we are looking to buy a home. Right now we're both living at my parents', and we're looking to buy a home. And I guess we're kind of, or I'm more wondering why, if we're going to plan on selling it like in five years, why not just do a third year right now instead of 15?

Why would you sell it in five? Well, I figure this, this would just be a starter home. I'm actually a carpenter. So I'd like to build my next home, um, in a few years, obviously, like I said, five or seven years, something like that. Um, so I'd like to sell it, like kind of fix it up and then flip it almost. Okay. Well, my first piece of advice, Nick, you didn't ask for this, but if I were you guys, I wouldn't just rush into a home. I mean, you guys got married three days ago. So part of me

would say, hey, for the next six, seven, eight months, I would move out of your parents and go rent somewhere, even if it's a six-month lease at an apartment or something, just for you guys to have your own space, build your own world. Something just happens when, and I understand people moving back home to save money. I mean, people do it for lots of reasons. But there's just something to be said

about having the dignity of, when you open the refrigerator, you guys got to decide who's going to go to the store to get food. You know what I mean? There's just these day-to-day decisions that I think are really important for a newlywed couple to walk through. So that would be my first piece of advice is go rent somewhere. And then do you guys have any consumer debt?

Nope. We are completely debt-free. Awesome. Do you guys have some money saved? Yeah. We have combined $61,000 in the bank. Oh, amazing. Fantastic. Great job. So we use some of that, I guess, for your down payment. Yeah, we were looking at, we just were doing the numbers yesterday. I think having $11,000 emergency fund,

$5,000 leftover for other stuff. So I don't know what that is like. Yeah. $38,000 down payment. And then there's like closing costs and stuff like that. Yeah, for sure. Okay. That's awesome, Nick. Well, well done on running your numbers. Yeah. So with a 30-year mortgage, like I understand some people say, well, we're going to just pay it like a 15 or we're going to pay more on it or we're in this timeframe. But, and for me personally, I would still go ahead and do the 15-year because you're going to be building equity within that, be paying more on the principal, and you're going to have more when you sell. And you never know what's going to happen. You know, you guys may be in there longer than you even expect. So our rule of thumb always is a 15-year fixed rate with your payment being no more than 25% of your take-home pay.

Right. And I guess the reason I'm asking this is I'd like to do 15, but with our income, we have about a 20% down payment for houses that we're looking at. And with our income, we aren't at that 25% with a 15-year. Well, okay. So then what house would you be able to get with it being in that 25 percent well that's like if we did a 30-year our payment would be like no i know i know yeah yeah but i'm just saying then at that point it ends up being just too much house because if we always again we do the math in that formula of the 15 years so so if you're calling us we're going to always advise you that way uh so that would mean that you would just have to get get a different house okay that makes sense

yeah okay probably not what you wanted to hear nick but that's what i would say and and again houses like they're um they're a big part of our world uh it's where it's a very personal purchase it's a personal part of our lives it's where you raise your kids it's where you's where it's a very personal purchase. It's a personal part of our lives. It's where you raise your kids. It's where you eat dinner. It's where you have your first marriage fight at the kitchen table, right? Like, I mean, like all this stuff, your house is, is a very intimate part of your lives. And so I just don't want it to take over Nick. And that's why we always, and we're, I know, I understand it's a conservative formula that we use but it's the one where just where your house doesn't have you and ends up being a burden yeah and I think because you are as a carpenter want to build your own home one day I would rent

a little bit longer and and I would rent that entire time I really would to be saving not even buy I would not buy yeah I would wait save up you've proven that you saved I think the goal here initially was well let me go buy a flip it, make some more money to fast forward everything. But again, I just think that brings in all kinds of risk. You never know what's going to happen. And I agree with you. I'd sit tight. Actually, I would rent and save, save, save, save, save, and build the house that you want to build. Thank you for the call. Alex is up in San Bernardino, California. Alex, how can we help? Hi. Hi. Hi. So my goal is to be a DJ. I'm 20 years old. I live with my parents. I'm currently going to college and I just want to drop out. Do you think

I should man up and finish college or do you think I should get a job, move out, and rent? Okay, what would you drop out to do? If you dropped out today, what would be the plan? I'd work at Amazon. For what purpose? Just to stop going to class? Yeah, and just... What are you pursuing right now?

What path are you on in college? What major? Marketing. And you have no desire to do that? Not really. I'm not really into college. I get it. Or school.

What's a full-time DJ going to make? I don't know. I'm sorry, that's a serious question. What's that possibility look like? That's true. I turn 21 soon, so I'm going to try to apply for clubs near my area. So you don't know? I should look at that, yeah.

Okay, so here's the point. We don't drop out of anything into nothing, right? So I totally get that you're not into college. Believe me, dude, I don't have a degree. I couldn't stay in college either. I get it. But to drop out to nothing just to go to Amazon without knowing what the plan is, let's say you do that, okay?

You drop out, you go work at Amazon, that's honorable, you're making money, whatever. Okay? But you have no idea what a path to being a successful dj looks like and then you look into it and you go oh i it's not as uh lucrative or as exciting as i thought it was once i actually dug in so now what yeah what i'd rather you do is sit tight have some discipline okay and then what i would do is i'd start hanging out with guys that are djs i would start you know uh if you got to work you know behind the bar or something like that you know uh just to get around djs i would start you know uh if you got to work you know behind the bar or something like that you know um just to get around djs you're not even 21 you probably can't even do

that the point is you get in you get in close proximity to djs for real and really understand like what do you make what do you make on a weekend because there's a difference between a dj and a high-end club in south beach and the DJ in, you know, Sheboygan, Wisconsin. I mean, it's just different. You want to DJ weddings? I mean, you got to know what you're dealing with. It's true. You got to know.

I know. Alex, listen, if I were you, I would stick out college, okay? I know it's a drag. Not just to stick it out. No, but when you graduate and you have a college degree, there is a marketable sense that he will have if he wants to go into something else. If he wants to go into business one day or something, it's there. I do, personally.

My point is, figure out the future. Yeah, and I wouldn't drop out right now, Alex. Not right now. I want to know what a path to being a DJ looks like. And if it's not successful, what else is out there? But stay put until you figure it out. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, I understand. Alright. There you go. Thanks for the call, Alex. I need to learn more about the DJ. I was going to say, your knowledge, though, is sweeping.

Well, I've been to some nice clubs down in Miami, and that's a whole different ballgame. They're flying these guys and gals over from Europe. I know these things. She is Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. Hey, thanks to everybody in the booth. Thank you, America, for listening. This is The Ramsey Show.