The Ramsey Show - App - DELONY RANT: Be Your Kid’s Parent, Not Their Friend! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: January 31, 2022

Home Selling, Home Buying, Relationships, Debt, Saving, Career, Retirement, Investing As heard on this episode: Sign Up for a FREE trial of Ramsey+ TODAY: https://bit.ly/3rZTUAx Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: https://bit.ly/2Q64HME Insurance Coverage Checkup: https://bit.ly/3sXwUn5 Complete Guide to Budgeting: https://bit.ly/3utmVXi Check out more Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3fHhbVE

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm George Campbell, your host, joined today by Dr. John Deloney, and we would love to talk to you. Maybe you've got some questions about some things happening in your life. You're at a crossroads. You need some confirmation. You need a third-party opinion, maybe. We are here for you.

Give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. Phone lines are open, and some say the advice is worth what you pay for it. What do you think, John? I agree with that. Yeah, we it what do you think john i agree with that yeah we're in full agreement there i agree with that ryan kicks us off this hour in charlotte north carolina ryan welcome to the ramsey show hey sorry i'm a little bit nervous but i figured i'd call in real quick and hey george is real nervous i'm so intimidated you're in good company

brother you'll do great we're here for you man man. How can we help? Hey, one, the main question is, I don't really know anything about cash out refinancing. And is there ever a situation where you would say it's okay to do that if you were remodeling a home to make it bigger versus going out and just purchasing a larger home and taking out the mortgage anyway, it would be that side. Oh, so you're saying instead of going and buying a new house to upgrade, should I just do the cash out refi and do the renovations at the house I'm currently in? Right, but I don't really know anything about cash out refi. Is that essentially the same thing as the HELOC? I mean, I know they're not the same thing, but would it be the same fee?

Would it be even remotely something that you would consider saying okay to do? Yeah. Well, what's your situation right now? Is that you would consider saying okay to do? Yeah. Well, what's your situation right now? Is that just what you're trying to do? You're wondering if we should remodel? Yeah, because we've got a 1,950-square-foot house, and it's just getting really cramped. We've got two kids, and we could add another 500 square feet to it because we have an attached carport, and it would look exactly like the house. So it because we have an attached carport.

It would look exactly like the house. So it's definitely something that we've considered. But is it something that we even want to go down the road because we follow the plan? So we're in 456. So it's really just a matter of is this something that you – because we don't have the cash to do it. So is it something that you would even suggest doing to get the cash out to be able to remodel the home? Sure. Well, with any refinance, there's going to be closing costs, and so yes, it will cost you money, and personally, I wouldn't do it. I would save up over time and pay for those renovations. Is that going to be too difficult for you guys right now?

Well, right now, we've got two two in daycare and the budget's already had enough with the 15%. So it's going to be at least two years before we can start saving a good amount of money because daycare is just so expensive right this minute. So it's not, and it's not really a necessity. It's just one of those things where we would like to do it. So I just don't know enough about it to say cash out refinance would be an option because obviously I don't want to add any more debt to the mortgage, but it's something that I don't know enough about to say, is that even something that Dave would say it's okay to do? Let's take the interest rates off, and I know I'll get some heat about this, but would you put $60,000 on a credit card to do what you're about to do? No, absolutely not.

Right. And so I want you to think of it as, I know if you put it in a more, if you roll it up into a new mortgage and just a cash refi simply, you're going to refinance your house that let's say it costs $100,000 and you're going to go refinance $140,000

and you're going to take that cash, you're going to take that 40 grand and you're going to invest it into your house, right? So I would prefer you to think of it as just a credit card as you're taking on debt to complete a house project. And here's why. The number of people, if you look back over the last two years, just scan social media, right?

A, that's going to make you less intelligent if you do that. Let's be clear. But go ahead and do that and look at the number of people who have run into building issues. The cost of the renovation went up halfway through it. It went down. It went up. People went off the job. They quit. At the end of the day, that bill is still due if you take out debt for this project.

If you're cash flowing this project you can stop you can pause you can wait until these so the timelines are annoying they're not catastrophic you hear what i'm saying right so i i know man having two little ones it's dude everything feels like you were living in the middle of a tornado and that you feel like that 500 square foot would be a game changer and it would be what i don't want you to do in this unstable environment economically is to take on $40,000, $50,000, $60,000 debt of a remodel, and then suddenly something happens, and that bill's come and due no matter what. Yeah.

Yeah, I didn't really know anything about what that is for one, and then also if that would even be a positive. You're refinancing and they give you a pile of cash and you go further into debt yeah so the idea is if you had if you have a mortgage on a $200,000 house and it's worth half a million dollars they want you to take out a bigger refi for that you know what I'm saying and you can spend that money on a new roof or new game or whatever so they're going to just hand you cash but they're going to it's going to roll up into a new mortgage.

Yeah. At the end of the day... I knew there was HELOCs and stuff like that, which are absolutely not an option. Same thing. I didn't know anything about it. Yeah, I just take it the same thing here. At the end of the day, Ryan, it's a shortcut.

And I know you've got a lot going on. You went, man, we can just get this stuff done with a quick refinance and life will be great. But remember, you guys worked so hard to get through Baby Step 1, 2, and 3. Now you're in four, five, six. I want to see you pay off that home. I want to see you become a baby steps millionaire. And it's going to be a lot harder taking this step backwards, doing a cash out refi to get these renovations done versus sacrificing, doing what it takes. Maybe you are working extra and there's some long nights,

long days in the season. But man, when you pay for those renovations with cash, it's going to mean a lot more, and it's not going to set you guys back with your progress. Okay. I know. He's like, well, that's not what I wanted to hear. You guys are the worst. Y'all ruined my life.

Thanks, you idiots. No, I mean, it's not even a necessity thing. We were just in the beginning stage of discussing it, and it was one of those things. It's like, you're in four, five, six. Do you really want to go into that situation situation and then the conversation was brought up about going and purchasing a larger home well that's even more mortgage anyway right so it was that was a that was a sticking point where like well i don't really know actually now that you say that how

old are your little ones i just figured i'd call and ask them ask the experts anyway how old are your little ones uh two and four. Two and four. I'll just tell you, having been there, everything feels chaotic. And when things get chaotic is when we often start either, A, compromising on our values or we start

looking, like George said, for shortcuts or okay, let's just try this or what about this? Looks like a good plan. Just go back to the basics. Don't owe anybody any money. And don't take out money that's not yours. Don't let somebody sweet talk you into borrowing money from them in order to get something right now that you think is going to feel better right this second. Because that two-year-old and four-year-old,

very few things make life with a two- and a four-year-old feel less chaotic. Even when they're on top of each other, even when they're driving each other crazy and making bedtimes hard, all that's just crap everywhere. I get it. Don't borrow money. Just stop. Let that be the end of the conversation there. You know what's going to happen now, John?

Ryan's phone just heard him talking about cash-out refis. It's going to be showing him ads for days on end about how this is the solution to all of his problems. That's right. That's right. That's how this works. You got to say no to the distractions, no to the traps. You know the plan, man. Stay on the course, cash flow everything, your life will be better for it. Open phones this hour. Give us a call, 888-825-5225. We'll talk about your life, your money, relationships, boundaries, mental health. We are here for you, America, and we would love to talk to you. This is The Ramsey Show. People all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs through Christian Health Care Ministries. Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, is a non-profit organization that helps members carry one another's burdens with health care expenses, and they have successfully

shared each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years. See if CHM is right for you by visiting chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. Welcome back. You are listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined by my great friend, some might say best friend, Dr. John Deloney. Are we great friends? No. I don't think we are at all, actually. It was a good effort, though. I like that you're going for it.

I'm trying. I'm seeing what will stick with you. So far, no bueno. We're not friends, but I think we will get there one day. Well, you know who is my friend, Hannah in Tacoma, Washington, who happens to be joining us right now on the show. Hannah, how are you doing? I'm good. How are you?

Great. How can John and I help today? I was just calling. Me and my partner just got engaged, and he actually just told me about the baby steps maybe three weeks ago. Congratulations, and welcome to the gang. So I have my $1,000 starter fund and I've paid off two credit cards in the last three weeks.

Way to go. Way to go. Thank you. The reason for my call is, I know you guys say don't combine your finances until you're actually married. Correct. Which is completely understandable.

But I was wondering, since I'm the one with debt and he's debt free, would it be kind of skipping steps if I had him save up our three to six month emergency fund? Because we do live together. We just don't have like joint accounts or anything. And then I continue to pay off my debt by myself while he does our three to six month emergency fund. Is that. When are you guys getting married? Well, we're going through premarital counseling right now and then have a real wedding later when there's a little less COVID and a little more savings. A little less COVID, a little more savings. Like a country song, a little less COVID, a little more savings.

I like it. So here's the thing. You were right that you guys should not combine finances. And here's the thing. You are on your own journey right now in the baby steps paying off your debt. He's on his own journey, debt-free, building up his emergency fund. And so this is not a our situation yet. And so if I'm him, I'm just saving up my emergency fund. And when it comes time for us to get married, well, guess what? We are now in baby step two, paying off our debt.

Right. How do you all split the bills up right now? We do the Suzy, I can't remember her last name. It's like this mathematical equation where you figure out your percentages. Suzy Orman's Pythagorean theorem. Yeah, something like that. Was ours not good enough for you? No.

How do you determine who pays what bill? Oh, well, we add all of the bills that are our bills, so like internet, rent for the apartment we both live in, and stuff like that. We just add that up, and then we find out the percentage based on who makes what amount of money. Oh, wow.

So it's skewed. If he makes more money, he has a bigger share of the bills. Correct. Interesting. That was his idea, for the record. Even if you just leave the lights on all over the house. See how this gets messy real fast? Yeah.

Where this makes way more sense, and we get pushback from all over the place makes way more financial sense marital sense and it makes way more partnership sense like you and i are in this together because we got married is to put all of your accounts when you get married put all your account put all your money into the same account and everything comes out of there when you start dividing up responsibilities by who makes more and who doesn't last and all that is a marital recipe for a relationship implosion because you're always going to be saying well i did dinner well then you should you know we always have that one friend this is before venmo of course we always had that one friend. This is before Venmo, of course. We always had that one friend that would be like, hey, you owe me $4.28. I got Wendy's like four years ago.

And you're like, what are you talking? That's what our marriage is turning to when we live like that. I love your idea of running to the courthouse and getting married and starting from scratch here. And just saying, all right, we're all putting all of our money together. Every month we're combining it. There will be seasons when you make more, he makes more, whatever it is, and then we're going to build out of that together. I love that plan.

Right. How much debt do you have left? I got it down from $37,000 to I think it's like $36,000 and some change. Okay. How much do you make? I make $35,000 a year right now, but I am lucky to have gotten a job right before the pandemic where we have a union negotiated 50 cent raise every six

months. So it's steadily climbing up every six months. And then I am in line right now to actually change positions sometime maybe the next six months, which would change my pay grade on the scale. Very cool. Okay. That's awesome. Well, good luck, Hannah. Congrats on the engagement. But, hey, stick to the journey on your own until you guys are married,

and things will be better for it. Yeah, so right now, just to refresh, until y'all get married, you need to have your emergency fund. He's got to have his emergency fund. Right now you are dumping everything on cash and he's going to take an emergency fund out of his whatever magical percentage y'all have come up with. And they, yeah, the new algorithm. I never heard of that mathematical formula.

I feel like that would cause a lot of resentment in my house. I can't even tell you. It just feels like such a disaster. But anyway. All right. Here we are. Amanda from Tampa joins us next. Let's see what Amanda has to say. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Thanks. My question is, I kind of did things backwards. I'm a young, single mom, and I just bought my first home back in February. So it'll be a year next month. It was kind of a rush thing with either rent again or buy a home. And so I bought it and, but I'd still have some, I have a car debt and two credit card debt, but I have a $2,500 in savings and I have a 401k and I didn't know where to go to next.

I kind of went all over the place on the baby step. So you want to refocus and go, hey, I know I'm doing too much at once. How do I start making progress? Yeah. And so I did just get a job offer to become a project engineer that gives me a pay increase of almost $12,000 for annual income. It's now 55K a year salary. Great. Cool.

From what I was making now. I did graduate college back in August with no debt to school at all. So what's your total debt right now? My total debt is my car, I owe about eight, but I'm paying that off with my taxes, so that'll be done. You got a refund coming in? Yeah, so that'll be gone. I'm using the whole thing to pay off my car, and then I have less than $1,000 in credit card debt. Very close.

So you got $9,000 total about? Yeah. And you'll be debt-free here the next few months, right? Correct. Okay. Sidebar, stop getting a refund. Change your withholdings, work with your employer on that, because the government's just hanging on to your money interest-free right now.

So I love that it's knocking out your debt, but that was your money. And so you could have been using that all year long to become debt-free versus waiting until now. So let's refocus this thing. You're going to be debt-free in a few months. Correct. And you have $2,500 in savings. So let's go ahead and knock out that credit card debt today. Okay. And then we're going to knock out this car debt once this refund comes through. Then we're going to be working on baby step three. So we're going to save up three to six months of expenses. And you're going to pause investing right now so that you can do that.

You said you're investing in your 401k? Yeah, I invest like $5. It's not much. I just throw it in. Literally $5? Yeah, I just, whatever's in my head, I just throw it in there and not forget it. I just forget about it. I didn't know you could even do that. It's like a spare change jar. I just don't know what I'm thinking. Okay, well, we'll pause the $5. Would you like to round up to the 401k? Yes, I would. Well done. So you've got this great Would you like to round up to the 401k? Yes, I would. Well done. So you've got this great new income, and I want to make sure that we use it wisely. So very quickly, this is going to take you less than six months.

I want you to save up three to six months of expenses, and then you can start investing again. And when you do, it's not going to be $5 because you have all the margin now, don't you? You don't have a car payment. You don't have credit card payments. So you can now invest 15% of that $55,000 into your 401k. Okay. You see what I'm doing here? And you feel the progress? You're like, wow, if I just do this stuff in order, one at a time, I feel like I'm winning. Yeah. It's like when you used to watch old videos of punt returners in a football game that would run 60 yards back and forth and they would

never get anywhere down the field. And then you'd see some folks just put their head down and run and then they make progress, progress, progress, progress. If I had a nickel for every punt return I've watched, John, I would have less than a nickel. I'll tell you that much right now. Zero nickels.

Thanks for the question, Amanda. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey folks, it's time to put 2021 behind us. February starts tomorrow. Can you believe that? Last year left a lot of people feeling burned out and sluggish. Eeyore was their spirit animal. But 2022 is a fresh start, and this is your wake-up call. If you're ready to own this year and actually accomplish your goals with money, your career, and life, we've got a plan to get you there. You can make 2022 your best year yet. Right now, we're running our New Year's sale, so you can get up to 73% off our best-selling books, assessments, and envelopes.

That includes Dave's brand-new number one national best-selling book, Baby Steps Millionaires, that will show you the quickest right way to become a millionaire. Or if you're looking for a better way to manage your cash, especially in categories that always blow up your budget, like food, pick up our popular Essential Cash Envelope Systems. Maybe you're having a hard time bouncing back from the last two wild years. Well, you could start 2022 off with our best-selling quick read from my friend Dr. John Deloney, Redefining Anxiety,

so you can learn what anxiety is, what it's not, and how to get your life back. Best part is, it's only $10. So visit the online store at ramsaysolutions.com slash store to get serious and make real progress. But hurry, the sale ends today. That's right, it ends today. Karen joins us in San Antonio. Karen, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, first time caller. So I'm a little nervous, but I'm trying to get some information for you a little bit. Hold on, Karen. Hold on. Speak directly on your phone for me.

I'm having a hard time hearing you. Okay. I am debt-free. Awesome. And I have come into some inheritance money. Who passed away, Karen? I'm sorry? Who passed away?

My father-in-law. I'm sorry. Thank you. I'd like to know what's the best way to make more money from this money. How should I invest the best way? Gotcha. So how much money is it? About $30,000, $35,000.

$35,000. about 30 35 000 35 and you said that you have no debt i didn't hear about your house you have a mortgage note too no no i'm debt free i'm on my own home on my own car i have a retirement of about $60,000. Okay. How old are you? T-I-double-A. Correct. How old are you, Karen? 59. 59. Okay. When did your father-in-law pass away?

This past July. This past July. Sorry. Well, let's talk about this money. So you have a paid-for home. You don't have a lot in retirement. Do you have any other retirement out there? What's your game plan on that side?

No, that's all I have. Okay. Well, you managed to have a paid-for house, so that's awesome. You have no payment in the world. Yeah. Okay. Well, this is good news. So if I'm you, you've got a fully funded emergency fund in place?

No. You don't? How much do you have in savings outside of this $35,000 inheritance? Probably about $1,200. Okay. Well, congratulations. You now have an emergency fund. Yeah, there you go. Not much of one, but yes. Hey, $35,000 is great. How can I make more money off this money to put away for retirement or anything that should happen? Well, you don't make money from the emergency fund because it's insurance. It's not an investment. And right now, if something goes out, if the HVAC goes out on the house, how are you going to pay for that?

Oh, I guess my savings? I don't know. You don't have savings. You just told me you had $1,200 to your name. Right. Well, that's my savings, yes. So that's what I'm saying, is I want this to become your emergency fund so that when life happens, you don't have to go backwards into debt, which is going to help you, by the way, build wealth and retire with dignity. Do you still work? Yes. What you still work? Yes. What's your income? About $35,000 to $40,000 a year.

Okay. And do you have much margin at the end of the month since you don't have a mortgage payment? How much money would you say you could scrounge up at the end of the month if you got tight on the budget? About $800. Okay. Do you have a 401k through your work? No. So no retirement options?

Yeah, they don't offer one. The only thing I have is my TIAA, about $58,000. Okay. Well, I would be investing into whatever option you have. You can also do an IRA. A Roth IRA is a great option that's going to help your money grow tax-free. So I would be maxing that out every single year as long as you're working with the money that you have coming in from your paycheck. But the inheritance is going to be your emergency fund.

I don't want you to invest that because this just saved you, by the way, about six months or more of saving up for this emergency fund with the blessing of this inheritance that came into your life. What is the normal amount for an emergency fund? We say three to six months of expenses. So take one normal month of expenses and multiply that by three or six. In your situation, are you single? Yes. Okay, so I would lean towards six because your income is all you have. If your job goes away tomorrow, we need to make sure that you've got that big umbrella to carry you through until you find something else.

Now, I want you to get in a regular rhythm of putting for a season, a couple of years, take that $800 a month and begin dumping everything into your retirement accounts. Now you are fully funded in your emergency fund. You're bulletproof now. And then you can begin to really double down on these retirement accounts. And that is going to grow money and grow money and grow money. I can hear your disappointment that you thought we were going to give you some magic account that was going to double or or triple this 30 000 bucks do you hear what george is saying about it's just a matter of time before you roll an ankle or

your car transmission falls out or you need to redo a hole in the roof and then suddenly you're going to a bank or getting a credit card again do you hear that okay yeah yeah i got you okay being able to sit on this, you might be able to sleep for the first time in a long time. Just having peace that if come what may, bills wise, that you're going to be able to just get to the next month, it's just going to be annoying. It's just going to be a frustrating, annoying thing. It's not going to be catastrophic or you're going to have to go get a credit card out again. So Karen, let's say your monthly expenses are $4,000 a month. We multiply that by

six, we get a 24,000, we'll call it 25. So you can feel good. So this inheritance 25 of that I'm going to park in a savings account, I'm not going to touch it. I'm going to let it sit there and it's not going to make you any money. And that's okay, because it's there to protect us. Now the extra five $10,000. I if I'm you, I'm going to fully fund a Roth IRA for the year and let that money grow for the next 10, 15, 20 years. So that is something you can do right now that will help you make that money. And you can connect with a SmartVestor Pro. That's our financial advisors that are trained the Ramsey way. You can trust them. They have a heart of a teacher and they can walk you through that process if you need someone to kind of hold

your hand through this as you head into retirement. I want to make sure that the money you do have coming in, we are very wise with it. Okay, and I can find that information on the Ramsey website? Yes, jump on ramseysolutions.com. You can click on Trusted Pros there, and you'll see the investment side and our SmartVestor Pros. We've got one in your area in San Antonio that would be happy to help you. And let me tell you, they're going to make you make the decision. They're not going to tell you what to do. They're going to show you your options so that you are educated and can make a decision that's right for you.

But you do have to get really intentional about using your access money every month and putting it towards retirement. How long do you plan on working? Okay. Well, I'd like to quit today, but I don't think that's possible. I don't know. Probably another five, 10 years, I guess.

So here's what's great about sitting down with a smart investor pro, and I did it the first time and it was eye-opening, is they just help you reverse engineer. If you retire at this age, here's how much money you're going to need. And if you put this much money away

every month times what we think it's going to need. And if you put this much money away every month, times what we think it's going to do in the market, and of course we're just guessing like everybody else is, but they're better guessers than I am. Here's what you're going to need. So you get to deal in actual data, actual facts, right? Not just, well, I'd like to quit, but

I can't, so I'll just keep plugging along. It gives you a guided path towards where you want to go with your money. Good stuff from Karen there. This is a question we get a lot, John. What do I do with the inheritance, with this blessing that someone that was near and dear to me left to me? And one of the best things you can do is be a good steward of it,

is to manage it wisely, is to filter it through the baby steps to set yourself up for financial freedom so that you don't have to worry. You have options. And I want to do that to my kids. I want to leave them in a better place than I was, and that's exactly what the inheritance does for people. And I hope that Karen can retire with dignity and sleep easy at night knowing she's got an emergency fund thanks to this father-in-law.

Good stuff. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined today by Dr. John Deloney, and we are taking your calls. Give us a call, 888-825-5225. Dennis joins us in Wichita. Dennis, welcome to the Ramsey show. Thank you. Appreciate it. How can we help today? I have a, well, actually, it's my daughter has a situation. She's 17 years old. Her mom got her a checking account when she was 16,

and she's been working and putting money away and being very responsible. Well, a couple days ago, she got a message on Instagram from somebody she did not know saying that they enjoyed some of her pictures and they wanted to use her pictures, and they would pay her for it. Well, what they ended up doing was they sent her a check via email, said, OK, for $3,000, we're going to pay you for the pictures. You keep $500 and send us back that money when you deposit it, the $2,500. It was zealous. So she did that. I know, uh, I would have saw it instantly,

but I told her, but things happen. Well, anyway, she didn't think anything of it. She went ahead and as soon as, as soon as the account said that that money was there, she sent it through Zelle to this individual. And then they tried it again for another $2,500. And then my ex-wife got a text message saying that the account was overdrawn and there's suspicious activity on it. And so they went in, they filed a police report with the local police. They sent it over to the bank's asset protection. So my question is basically this. They're saying that they got the second one stopped,

but the first one, she may be on the hook for $3,000, which I mean, I kind of agree with, but I kind of don't agree because I thought there should be some better protection on a checking account for a minor. And that's what it was. So we're kind of, what do we do? My thought was just let them sue her for the money,

get in front of, this way she gets in front of a judge, they can at least talk to an impartial person, a judge, and say, hey, this was scammed, we shouldn't be owed this, they didn't do anything to protect this account from fraudulent activities and fraudulent checks because it's definitely fraudulent. So we're just kind of, what do we do? How honest can I be with you? Perfectly. Go ahead.

All right. I don't know what state. You're in Kansas there. Every state's different but if i'm a judge and you bring this to me i'm going to turn around and say where were the parents of this minor because they're ultimately in charge when you open an account like that and so yes a bank should have they're going to open up an account for minors there should be protections and all that but any to anything legally always rolls downhill to the parent.

Not always, but almost always rolls downhill to the parents or uphill to the parents. And so you can do that. I think this is an extraordinary, expensive, pull-your-hair-out, frustrating, but extraordinary gift for your daughter if you all frame this right. If you frame it as making this the bank's fault, then you're teaching your daughter that if we make a big mistake and we

screw up, even we try to do right, we thought we'd get this, then there's always somebody else to blame. If you teach your daughter, man, we messed up. You messed up big. I'll split this with you or you can work it off in this way. It's going to be a very expensive thing to learn. My promise is this never happens again. I just was dealing with somebody who's a friend of mine who's got college-age kids, was caught up in a sexting thing and a very similar scam via Instagram. And it was a mess, caused a lot of heartache and a lot of police reports. Here's what I can promise you, that will never happen again.

Right? And I'm more interested in setting up a 17-year-old with a $3,000 lesson. Usually it's a car wreck or something like that, that you can learn a lesson like this. Set it up a lesson like this, and this never happens again than I am about, well, they should have had man i

personally i'm not going to go down that road and if i'm a judge i'm going to look at you dad or look at your ex-wife and say where were the parents when this stuff was going on um that's my that's my take on it george got thought yeah i just keep thinking man this could be a expensive road to go down just fighting this thing in in court when we get we don't know who this guy so as far as recourse goes, sure, you can report it to Zelle. You can go after your bank and say, hey, this was fraud. This was legitimate fraud. But at the end of the day, there's a level of stupid tax here where we have to go, okay, red flag number 4,000.

If they send me 3,000 but I'm only getting 500, this is a scam when they overpay. And let me tell you, I fell for this, John. When I was younger, I shipped a pair of shoes on Craigslist to Nigeria because he said it was for his cousin. And I got a PayPal email. He paid extra for the shipping. And I thought, wow, this guy's legit. He really just wanted to send these to his cousin. It was a fake email. And it took a lot of sleuthing to even figure out it was a fake email. But I should have checked my bank account and said, is this money actually there? Is this actually in my PayPal account? And so there's a lot of things we do as teenagers,

and there's two people getting scammed these days, older folks and young folks. The people in the middle hopefully know better, but especially young people, they can be susceptible because they're used to Venmo and Zelle. This is in their world. But unless they're mailing me a check and I go to the bank and cash that check, it's fraud.

I know I sound like a gong, George. And, hey, Dennis, I appreciate your vulnerability, and I appreciate you calling and asking. And I know things are challenging because you're parenting in two different households here, this young lady. If you were going to hand a child a smartphone and you were going to give them open access to the internet to all social media and let's let them go because they're just kids and they're please do your due diligence and look at what is happening to our young people who are involved in this just having free reign of the internet free reign of these social media apps free free reign of, this is the best case scenario, quite honestly.

Yeah. That someone, she got lost, she lost 3,000 bucks and learned a hard lesson. The number of people over my years working at colleges that were caught up with pictures,

compromising pictures of them that are out, that they could never get back, that people were taking their text messages, I mean, all kinds of stuff. Parents, you have to be

in your kid's business, especially when they're minors. Well, I don't want to be private. They're 15, they're 17, they're 14, they're 13. Get in their business. Get in their business. We don't let them buy beer. We don't let them buy smokes. We don't let them go to war. We don't let them buy guns because we know that their brains aren't fully formed. Yet we hand them the internet and say, make good choices, right? And there's entire industries that are built on preying on these young folks.

Parents, get involved. Have that conversation and say, here's the ground rules. Also, if anyone asks you for money, wants to give you money, this is a conversation that goes straight to the parents, and we talk about it. Or be a Luddite and just don't give your kid access to the internet. Open.

John, no one's ever wanted to buy my photos that I post on Instagram. So, and I'm a big deal, John. So, I don't know what she got on her Instagram. No one's ever. I'm not going to. Oh, you know what? Someone reached out and said they'd like to pay for my pictures of my feet. And that's what I thought. I'm going to hard nope on that one, John. We're not going to, oh, you know what? Someone reached out and said they'd like to pay for my pictures of my feet. And that's when I thought.

I'm going to hard nope on that one, John. We're not going to be friends. I hope that was rhetorical, like you're talking about someone else. No. Dear Lord. Okay. And if they're reaching out to, oh, God, help us. Parents.

Social media. Get involved in your kids' lives. Get involved in your kids' lives. You're not being a helicopter parent. You are being wise. You're being a caring parent. Yeah, well, this is not encroaching on their privacy. This is helping them avoid some huge mistakes, a $3,000 mistake.

You've got two little dogs. Do they have their own account? You know, if they could open a bank account, John, I would make them open one. No, I'm talking about an Instagram account. Oh, yeah, yeah. One of them's got one. We don't post, though. Come on, man.

We're better than that. We gave up on it. Did you? Yeah. It's just you and me and a couple million people. Nobody wants of million people. Are you being honest? You give up on it? A hundred percent. You can go check it. I'm proud of you, George. Thank you. I know it's hard. Social media is hard enough on your own, let alone posting for an animal that can't post for itself. But some good lessons here, John. Social media, I think this is one of these things this generation

has to grapple with and go, what's the healthy way to use this? Yeah, absolutely. Because it's going to happen more and more. And more and more and more and more and more. Yeah. So parents need to have these conversations, set some ground rules, set some boundaries so that we don't end up in a situation like this. Yeah. It's sad.

I hate that for you, brother. I hate that, Dennis. I hate that. I hate that. I hate that, man. I hate this for your little girl, too. I hope she gets the money back somehow. That'd be great.

But I've heard with these Zelle scams, it can be really difficult to get your money back. Not a lot of recourse on this, but if she gets it back, call us up. Let us know. We'll cheer on with you, man. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniel, associate producer and phone screener, and Ben Hill on the board, keeping the show afloat. Appreciate you guys, and I appreciate you, America.

Thanks for listening in. We'll be back with you before you know it. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.