The Ramsey Show - App - Digging Out of Student Loan Debt (Hour 3)

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

МУЗЫКАЛЬНАЯ ЗАСТАВКА Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman, and we are your hosts this hour. The number to call is 888-825-5225. If you've got a question about money, work, purpose, your career, the job you feel stuck in, we are here to help you take the next step. 888-825-5225. Adam kicks us off in Miami. Adam, what is going on in Miami? Hey, thank you for having me. Sure. How can we help? Yeah. So, um, I, I actually found out today. So this is kind of the reason for my call. I found

out today that I, uh, owe $31,000 in, uh, student debt. And I know that sounds a little crazy, but the reason is, is because, um, so, um, I had, I guess, two, a call to, I guess, um, one with a parent plus, and that was taken care of by, uh, that was forgiven because of a GI bill and my family, a little bit dysfunctional. Um, and kind of every time I brought it up, I would see in my credit report, this $31,000 and it was actually 27 before that interest. And it was just told that, you know, it was taken care of. Don't worry about it.

It's wrong. It'll be updated. It was discharged. And so I just kind of did a research today and found out that it's totally separate and it's in my name. So, you know, I have to take care of it. So basically it's, you know, student loans spread about 31,000 spread across nine loans, you know, throughout the four years.

So I was just considering consolidating it. I just wanted to, you know, kind of have a, I don't really know where to start. So I was just hoping to get some advice on how to attack it. Well, it's a rude awakening for sure. And I'm sure very frustrating, and not causing any repair with the relationship with your family that told you, hey, don't worry about it. We've got it. Yeah, exactly. I was saving up for a car. So where are you at now? Do you have any other debt? No.

Okay. And how much money do you have in the bank? In investments in a wealth IRA, about 10. And then in stocks, about 10 and about two or three. Just sitting in an account. Okay. Great. So what's your income? So my base is about 75. I started a new job recently. It could potentially be well over 100.

Wonderful. Okay, so the good news is in this mess is that you're going to be done with this debt, my guess is within six months. Yeah, I'd love to hear how socially consolidated. Is that something, you know, across those? It's nine loans ranging from $2,000 to $7,000. Yeah, I was in a very similar position to you. When I was 23, I did pull my credit report,

realized I had $36,000 in student loans across about 11 loans. And the way I did it is the way I'm going to recommend to you. And that is to not consolidate these debts because all you're doing is just moving the debt around into one big pile instead of tiny piles. So you didn't really do anything. You just have the illusion that you did something. So instead, what I would do is just attack the smallest one with a vengeance. And I would also, and this is also something I did, I would sell those stocks

that you have. Yeah. That's not retirement, right? You just invested in a bunch of stocks and it's at 10K? Yeah. Well, it's an Acorns account that I used. Okay. So I would liquidate that and I would move away from single stocks anyways. And instead, once you're debt-free with an emergency fund, then I would begin to invest 15% into tax-advantaged retirement accounts, and I would quit. I wouldn't use the Acorns app if I'm in your shoes. Yeah. And I think that's going to give you a better long-term future, and it's going to get you out of debt the fastest. Because you told me you've got $2,000 plus the $10,000 in stocks. The rest is retirement accounts in the investments? Yeah, that's correct. Okay. me you've got $2,000 plus the $10,000 in stocks. The rest is retirement accounts in the investments? Yeah, that's correct.

Okay. So you've almost knocked out a third or almost a half of your student loans just by doing this. So that leaves you with $19,000 left. You're going to make $100,000. So the question is how quickly can we pay off $19,000 making $100,000? How much margin can we throw at these debts from smallest to largest balance, ignoring the interest rate? Yeah, that's definitely something I'll have to figure out, but I definitely don't want to not have anything in the bank. Well, you'll have a thousand dollars you'll leave as a starter

emergency fund. And then for six months, what you're going to do is try to throw $3,000 a month toward your smallest debts and make minimum payments on the rest. Okay. So 3,000 times six, 18, which is about what you'll have after you sell the stocks, put a little bit of the money

you have in savings and put that all towards your debts. That's going to knock out almost half your student loans. You tracking? Yeah. So you're going to free up payments. For sure. That's going to knock out almost half your student loans. You tracking? So you're going to free up payments. I am tracking for sure. That payment gets rolled into the next debt,

along with all the margin you're mustering up from your income. And I'm telling you, man, you could be in a very different place six months from now. And six months after that, you're going to save up a fully funded emergency fund. Three to six months of expenses. You wouldn't suggest at all like going with you know monthly payments or anything like that monthly payments on what like well i guess i guess never mind you know well i was just thinking consolidating and turning into monthly payments but that's not the right call so well it doesn't move you forward i'm trying to help you move

forward and get rid of this debt instead of just move it and go well i've made it into one big payment because i can't keep up with nine instead I found that it was much more motivating for me to see each net debt get knocked out one by one, freeing up a payment, applying it to the next one and the next one. And with doing this plan, I'm telling you, 12 months from now, you're debt free with a fully funded emergency fund and you're investing 15% of your income in retirement. If you do it your way, you're going to be calling back a year from now. Interest growing. I got to jump in here.

Adam, I know you understand what George said, but after he explained it really clearly, and you said you understood it, you jumped right back into the consolidation thing. It leads me to believe that you've got some people that are pretty influential in your life that are pitching you on this, and while you understand what George is saying, i'm not sure you believe it yet am i right or am i wrong no you're wrong i honestly don't really have anyone to go to for financial advice okay good so so listen do you believe then so so i'm glad i'm glad i'm wrong but do you believe that you can do what george is saying yeah i do i believe it's going to get very tough, but that's very possible. All right.

Dude, I did not make $100K. Yeah. I was making a starter salary, and I had more debt than you. And I did this in 18 months with some hustle. I was doing side hustles. So you've got to be willing to sacrifice, and you can do this in six months, and a third of the time with this amazing income and with these stocks you're going to sell. That's right.

And so you've got to quit getting distracted. That's what's happening here. You're doing a lot of things at once and you have an amazing income and your greatest wealth building tool is your income. And right now it's being siphoned away from student loans and your stress and distracted by Acorns micro-investing apps.

And I talk about these investing traps in the book and I specifically call out ones like Acorns because I think these apps are designed to take your money, not make you money. I would like to give the first book of yours that I've given away. What an honor. Breaking Free from Broke. It's your gift, Adam. I'm giving it to you, but George did all the work. See how I did that? I like that. Hang on the line. Austin will get you a copy of that, because George, you really do do a great job of explaining the game that people are in. It's kind of like you're breaking down the matrix in this book. Yes. The financial matrix. And once you see it, you can't unsee it. And I hope it helps Adam break free from broke because he's a wise young

man making good money. And I want to see that money help him build wealth instead of big towers in the sky for Sally Mae. So hang on the line adam we'll send you a copy of breaking free from broke and wishing you the best with that payoff this is the ramsey show welcome back to the lines. Lisa joins us up next in my hometown, Boston, Massachusetts. Lisa, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Thank you so much. I really appreciate this opportunity to discuss and get your insights on this. Absolutely.

I'm single. I was recently laid off. I'm collecting severance for about the next 15 months. I currently single. I was recently laid off. I'm collecting severance for about the next 15 months. I currently rent. As you know, my rent continues to go nowhere but up. And I'm at a pivotal time in my life where I'm actually thinking about relocating to an area where I can afford to purchase a home for around a price that will keep my mortgage even lower than my rent. And I was looking for some insight and advice on that. Okay. So what, what job did you get laid off from? What were you doing? I was in media for a long time. I was fortunate, you know,

they owe me nothing. I was there 25 great years, but it's a little bit scary now because I'm a little older in age and I'm not really sure if I even want to do the big corporate job anymore. I really would rather do something more purpose and volunteerism. And I really can't see me having that luxury if I continue to chase rent. So I was thinking about relocating, you know, purchasing a home. I can't, as you know, right, can't get a house from anywhere near Boston for 325,000, but I can't, if I relocate and I was actually toying with, although this is where I'm looking for your insight over like about four years, just purchasing my home outright. So in like four years time, I have no debt. And at that point, I could afford to live on, you know, my pension and my social

security and my remaining 401k that I don't touch for my home. Okay, so where are you thinking about moving to? Florida. Oh, all right. There you go. Yeah, big change. Yeah, but I love the sun. I'm not a cold person, not a skier. I've always stayed here for my family. But I'm at a point now where, you know, it's not a good enough reason to keep me grounded. I can continue to come home and visit family. They'll come to me. So I just think, you know, this maybe is serving as a catalyst for me to do something, you know, put my big girl pants on, which I never would have done before. And, you know, take that chance and move and purchase a home. I like about a lot of what I'm hearing. I am just curious why you wouldn't

continue to work. Uh, you've got a lot of experience. Yeah. I'm not saying I won't. I think it's, I don't want the pressure of having to go out and get what I had. Right. Um, that's fine to be a realist. What did you have? Tell me a little bit more. Like what were you doing and what were you making? I was making about $140,000 a year. I was in media. But what? Sales, sales, sales. Okay. And so when you say you don't want to go out and feel the pressure to get a sales job, make it 140. Is that what you mean? Yeah. Yeah. And I also have some health things I might be facing that I might have to take a little bit of time for myself. I was recently diagnosed with, you know, an issue that has to be addressed, nothing life-changing, but might

need to take a little bit of downtime for myself. So, you know, because of those factors, I'm just trying to think, well, what can I do to get myself where I feel in a better situation that I don't have to make this money? And, you know, I have, you know, I guess it's all relative in life. I think I have a pretty good, you know, retirement strategy and savings in my 401k and liquid savings. I don't have a lot of debt, but I also don't, you know, I've been so disciplined and worked so hard. I don't want to, because I'm now suddenly faced with like a health thing and losing my job that I panic and make a really bad choice. So that's why I was calling into, you know, to you gentlemen, because you know, I'm a big fan of the show. You mentioned you have debt.

I have one debt. I have a car payment, which I can easily pay off. I just haven't because I was working. What's left on the loan? $17,000. Okay. And how much money do you have in savings? I have about $800,000 in a 401k, $100,000 in liquid savings, and then I have like a lump sum for better words,000 in liquid savings, and then I have a lump sum for lack of better words

that I can take out as a pension or I can roll over to a 401k that's a lump sum amount as well. Okay, great. Well, Lisa, I'm going to answer this as if I was in your shoes. How old are you? 58. Okay. If I'm in your shoes and I really wanted to move to Florida, I would, number one, take some of this liquid savings and pay off the car loan today. Okay. Now you're debt-free.

It's going to free up a payment. And then, here's the crazy part, I would go rent in Florida for a little while until I figured out what was next. And I would personally be looking for a job so that I'm able to pay off this house. Once I had be, I would personally be looking for a job so that I'm able to pay off this house. Once I had the house paid off and I had enough in retirement, then I would go, all right, Lisa's out and she's going to maybe have an early retirement or an encore

career, but I wouldn't just, you know, pack it up and go to the, you know, the fifties living community in Florida. Yeah. Margaritaville. I keep thinking of the sign fens no doesn't it that's actually no but that's actually like a neighborhood in florida oh yeah they're all over the country well for that i've been going to this area for a while guys and i do love the area and i have friends there so it's not a need reaction from that perspective but can you rent excuse me can you rent over there for a little while the rent will be high the rent will be high and i just the market's kind of going up my friends bought two years ago and their house doubled i'm almost a little pressured where i feel like i know i can

still go buy a nice house for 325 so you buy a house for 325 and your down payment would be the rest of your liquid cash outside of an emergency fund? I'm thinking of not doing that. I'm thinking about just putting 10% down and then over four years withdraw the money from my 401k and pay it off outright. But you're going to be unemployed and we need to pay a mortgage now that's $300,000. But I have already been pre-approved because of my severances and my 401k. They do a continuance program where I can guarantee that I can pay it. But what happens when the severance is over? The severance is 16 months, and I'm sure I'll have a job by then.

It's no different than if I'm here renting and strapped down. I guess where I'm going with this strapped down. I guess where I'm going with this, guys, is I know if I own a home and I get a job making half my money, I can say, hey, you know what? I'm going to pay $75,000 a year and just get rid of this in its entirety. Now all I have is my food and utility bills. I can never say that. Listen, we get where you're going. I don't think we like how you're trying to get there. In fact, I know we don't like how you're trying to get there,

but love where you want to go. I mean, if you've got friends down there and you could roommate up, you know, for six months and do a short-term lease, get on the ground. I know you visited a bunch. Or put the rest of the – what are you going to have left after the car payment? 17, you're going to have a what? About 83,000 to put down? Yeah, about 83,000. Well, you know, look, that's 20% down, you know, on a 365 is that much. You can leave the rest as an emergency fund. I would put as much down as possible. I would too, put it all down, but you

easily have the 20% that we like to recommend. Yeah yeah it'll help you avoid pmi and get a job willing to do that good take a couple months 20 percent okay here's what i would do i want to add to what george said i would take a couple months okay chill out right take care of your health issue you're gonna be okay i take two months max get down there get the girlfriends girlfriends, have some fun times, throw the marks back a couple nights, but we're now looking for a job down there. We're going to have a good time. We're going to get employed. We're not going to use that severance to live off of.

I would be stacking that severance. If it were me, I'd be trying to only use a couple months of that severance, George, get employed down there, take the rest of that severance and plug it into the baby steps. Yeah, well, Lisa, you told us you don't want to be pressured into getting back into the sales job. Well, you're going to feel pressure when the severance is running out and you haven't found that dream yet. So I'm going to start searching ASAP and land that to give you some cushion. And I want you to take as small of a mortgage as possible because the goal is to pay it off as quickly as possible. And it's going to reduce your mortgage payment down.

The more you put down, the smaller the payment. That's right. Less pressure you have to go out and make $140,000. And I don't think it'll be a pressure situation. With your personality, your sales experience, you could crush it down there. Lisa sold us on this dream. I know.

She's got the sales skills. George and I are going to come down and visit. It's going to be great. Oh, Kenny Boy and me in Margaritaville. Oh, Margaritaville. It's going to be great. We'll hang out with the 50-somethings. What's that pickleball?

Play Pickleball? You like the Gumby Slumber? The Gumby Slumber. That's a Ken Coleman favorite right there. Fantastic. Look it up. She'll have one ready for you. Lisa, we're wishing you the best with this next chapter of your life.

And, of course, wishing you the best with these health issues. Hope you can get them taken care of. And we'll see you in Florida. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman. The number to call is 888-825-5225. Hayden's up next in Dallas, Texas. Hayden, welcome to The Ramsey Show. How are you doing? Great. How are you? I'm doing good. So my question is, I'm 18 years old. I'm still a senior in high school, and I figured out relatively before my senior year started

that I want to be a large animal vet, and I know that it's going to be very pricey, and I don't have any money saved up for college besides what I'm going to get for showing my barrels, which would be about like maybe $8,000. And I have no idea how to go about scholarships or anything like that. What's the price range? I'm assuming there are more than a handful. How many schools would train you in that? And then what's the range of price on that? Are they all pretty similar?

So the route that I was going to go is I'm just going to go to my local college in my county and get my basics and go over to commerce, which is around, I think when I calculated it was 20,000 a year, I think it was. Okay. So, so we need to be super crystal clear on that. And then you need to do a lot of research to go, how many large vet schools are in the country? And what are my options there? Because 20,000 a year, how long is the program? Let's just say it's 20,000. You need to be really sure on what that number is, first of all, but how many years are we talking about? 20,000 times what? So that's just the animal science and that would be four years.

So we're talking 80,000, then what? It's either two or four years for pre-vet, which I can either go to A&M, OSU, or Texas Tech to do. Why are those the only three options? Because those are the only ones near me that I'm comfortable driving to that has a vet licensed program. Okay, so let's keep adding this up because it's important to what we're going to walk through with you. So two or four years, how much is that?

How much is that? For what was it? The second one. I don't know what the first one was something about animals and the second one was pre-vet. Pre-vet. How much is that going to cost? Pre-vet. How much is that going to cost? Pre-vet? If I take it at A&M Commerce, it would be, I think, $20,000 as well.

I can also probably look up. Total or per year? Per year. Okay, so you're talking $40,000 to $80,000 on top of that. Goodness gracious. And then you have actual vet school? Yes, you have to go through a licensed school. How many years and how much? We're playing the same game here.

How many years, how much? Let me look it up real fast because I've not looked up that aspect of it. So if I get accepted... That's the hope. Yeah, that's the hope. It's very hard to get accepted. All right, I'll tell you what. Just for our listeners' sake...

It's like an accountant getting the taxes done. I don't even care what the number is. It's crazy. Yes, it is. It's crazy. Yes, it is. It's $22,000 a year. Okay. For how many years?

Another four years? We're not sure. Two to four. I think it's two for just the vet license. Pre-vet, you can take a two-year or a four-year. All right. So what are you wrestling through? How can we help specifically? Because we're not going to tell you to take a loan out for that. That's insane. If you just play the

numbers out and you look at what you would make your first year out, your second year out, what your path to growth is, and you run the numbers on an interest rate and what you're going to be paying back, you're going to find out pretty quickly it's really not worth it. But most young people, because we don't teach you in our culture to actually run the numbers and think about what it's actually going to look like when you get out, you've been told your whole life that this is just, this is the price of entry. And it is the price of entry, no question, but it doesn't have to be loaned. Maybe we're going to get in that field and we're going to make a lot of money and we're going to cash flow this. But you've got to think through this. Scholarships, got to think through this.

Scholarships, what can you do? What are my options around the country? I don't care that you can't drive to some place in Arkansas, but if Arkansas has got something and it's a lot cheaper, I can tell you this. No animal owner cares where you went to school, and I promise you the animal doesn't care. But you as a young man have got to look at this stuff and go, is this worth it? Is there another way? These are two big questions that you don't have the answers to.

So to the worth it part, there is one thing that kind of makes me think it might be worth it is after you get out and get a vet license, you have to practice for a little bit under a company, of course. But the USDA can give you a contract for three years to go to a county they choose and pay $25,000 a year off of your student loan debt. And you can sign that contract as how many years you need to. But there's some golden handcuffs there, because what are you going to be making there?

It sounds like you're at a limited income. You're not making much. I got news for you, young man. You're not going to make a lot working for a county vet. In fact, you're going to be making the bottom of the barrel. So they'll pay you $40K, and they'll pay off 25 of your student loans. That's a $65K deal. Yeah, no thanks. You could probably go make more than that elsewhere. Yeah, that's another thing

that I've been thinking about is also you make 40K working under somebody. You need to go talk to some vets. You got to figure out what vets are actually making out there in your area, doing what you do, and then figure out, okay, is this still what I want to pursue? And then how do I do it affordably? And so there's a few steps. I'm going to send you my book, Breaking Free from Broke, because I've got a whole section on student loans and how to go to college debt-free. Here's the spark notes. Number one, you got to take debt off the table, Hayden. You got to say, I'm going to do it without debt no matter what. When you pre-decide that, it changes the rest of your decisions. Then we can talk about college savings accounts, choosing an affordable school, which might mean you might need to move across the country for

this dream. And you can't limit yourself to these three schools that might cost a pretty penny. Then we get into applying for scholarships and grants as if it's a part-time job. I'm talking 15 to 20 hours a week. You're applying for so many scholarships and grants, your head is spinning. You hear me? And then you're also going to work part-time while you're in school and all of this is going to help you cash flow it and help you leave without debt and that might mean it takes longer but right now you're looking at a 10-year journey to become a vet is that right yes sir and about two hundred thousand dollars y. With this current plan. Hey, how sure? If you could do it for free, okay, you wouldn't have any of this debt.

And that was one option on the table right now. And then I said to you, but I've got some other options that would allow you to use what you do well to do stuff that you like. Would you say, I'm not interested in that, I want to work with animals? I mean, how much of this is passion versus just a genuine kind of, I'm intrigued by it, seems like it might be fun. Because you're 18, awfully young. How well do you know that you want to do this? So pretty well because 16 to 17 years old, I had no idea.

That's when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And I'm in FFA, and I show bears, and they would have me go down and give shots to pigs, cattle, whatever. And when I was doing it, I was like, this is actually kind of fun taking care of these animals, make sure they're okay. And I've been interning with a vet. Okay, good.

Let me ask you this really quick because our time is short. Is it possible? And if the answer is I don't know, that's okay. But I'd like for you to check into what would a path look like if you were to go work for a veterinarian at a lower level and pay your way through some lower level degrees? Would they be interested in paying some of your education or reimbursing you? Is that done at that level? I would think it's a pretty – you talk about the large animals.

I would think there's a lot of demand, yes or no? Demand, yeah. I think there's like a 195% increase rate for veterans. For veterinarians? Yeah. Sorry, I don't know why I said veterans. It's okay. Here's what I'm saying.

I would like you to see, if you could talk to some local veterinarians like George is talking about, and get an idea of entry and what they're making, are they interested in finding young people like you who know they want to do it, and would they be willing to supplement your education so you don't have to go out and get a loan for it? I would at least kick the tires on that, George. You've got a lot of homework to do, and Hayden, we're going to help you out. I'm going to send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke. Read Chapter 4 on student loans.

This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Psalm 1-3. They are like trees planted along the riverbank, bearing fruit each season. Their leaves never wither, and they prosper in all they do. Booker T. Washington said, excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way. Good stuff. Open phones at 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman, and we're about to be joined by Walter in Raleigh, North Carolina. What's going on, Walter? Hi, thanks for having me on the show, gentlemen. I have a better question than I've been having in the past. My wife and I went from a dual-income, no-kids family to a single-income, one-kid family with a birth of a three-month-old.

We're on baby step six, and we have an outstanding balance on a mortgage of around $220,000. The kicker is that I'm active duty, and I can't take on extra jobs. My wife is going to school, and we're cash flowing that. And in about two to three years, we're going to have to move somewhere. We don't know where. My question is, is it worth still paying down as much of the principal as I can when I know mathematically there's no way that we'll be able to clear the home? Or is there something else that we should be still in stork mode for an eventual move? Well, there's no stork on the way, right? We got the one kid? Correct.

Okay. And then when is your wife finishing school? In about two years. Okay. What will she be doing after that with the degree? Environmental science. Cool. All right.

So back to your question about the mortgage. There's a fallacy that paying down the mortgage is like wasting money in a sense if you're not going to pay it off in full. And I don't see it that way because what you're doing is really creating a forced savings plan. So all of the money you're paying into that is built into the equity. And when you move and sell that property, you're going to roll over that equity into the new home that you buy. Does that make sense? It does. I'm just wondering how much extra should I, like, I mean,

I guess I can go with what I'm comfortable with, but if we just keep making the minimum payments on the mortgage and just, I don't know, just kind of like keeps beefing up the six-month emergency fund, could we then just pay the principal later? Or is it better to pay it incrementally? It's better to pay it as soon as possible because your interest is calculated every single month. And so the sooner you make that extra payment, the sooner the interest starts to get knocked down, more is being thrown at the principal with each payment, and that allows you to make real momentum and progress versus putting it aside and waiting to do it at the end of the year. It doesn't make sense.

And you're not at risk of losing a job, sounds like. No. So we don't need more than a six-month emergency fund. You're going to be employed. You're not scared of work. And thank you for your service, by the way. And so I feel good about you continuing to pay down this mortgage and just rolling the equity over. And when you're ready to buy a new house, the money's ready to provide for you right there. Okay. But that's what I did personally, Walter. Even if you're going to move, I still tell people, pay down the mortgage. It's a forced savings plan. You guys don't have any debt. You have an emergency fund and you're investing 15%, correct? Correct.

Then the next move there, outside of putting some money away for that, your child in a 529 plan or an ESA, or do they have some kind of GI bill? They do. Wonderful. This is an awesome plan then. And so next up is getting rid of this mortgage. What's your household income? 85. Okay. So my goal would be how much can we, because you're cash flowing your wife's school as well?

Or is that covered? Correct. We're cash flowing her schooling. Okay. So anything beyond cash flowing, I would be throwing at the mortgage, Walter. And you're going to be thankful when you sell that house and you get so much equity out of it to roll into your next goal. So good luck with the move. And again, thanks for your service.

Jenny's up next in Colorado Springs, Colorado. What is going on? Hey, Ken and George, thank you so much for taking my call. I'm super excited to talk to you. What's happening? Just to get to the meat of the question, I have, I've been in private practice for a couple of years doing counseling and income is kind of, it's not consistent. I would say my husband's in sales, so his income is not consistent either. I accepted a job about a month ago to work for a university doing counseling. But this job has kind of a clause where you can't do any outside work. And the yearly salary is $72,000. So the main thing that I'm worried about is us paying off our debt with me going to a job

where the income is kind of capped and I can't work outside of that income. When you say work outside, is it in counseling or you couldn't even drive for Uber? Well, so right now I do Instacart and DoorDash. And you have to get any sort of permission for outside work other than counseling. So I could potentially, if I got permission from like the dean and the regents, it's this whole process that you have to go through to get the permission, but I definitely couldn't do counseling on the side. That's fine. I get that. Have you already taken the job and started or you just recently accepted? Yeah. So Ken, I'm glad that I'm talking to you and George, of course, but I accepted the job, but it took about two and a half months to get credentialed for it. So,

the start date is in a couple weeks. So, you effectively can get out of it. Is that what I'm understanding? Yes, with a major feeling of guilt and disappointing them because they credentialed me. Well, again, you got to do what's best for you. And so if this is not the right decision, I'm not saying that it's not, but if it's not the right decision, you don't compound a mistake by making another one, you know? So what were you making before you took this job? So in private practice, I can make anywhere between maybe $60,000 and $90,000 a year, just depending on my client load, caseload, all my expenses. So what drove you to take the university job? More stability on the number?

Yes, because both of our jobs are inconsistent, and the university job has benefits. It's more consistent. Okay. We'll have money to plan on. All right. So I'm going to hit rapid fire here because we've got about two minutes, and I want to be able to help you.

Yeah. How much money, let's say that the university automatically rubber-stamped your side hustles, how much money would you want to make where you go, okay, man, that's awesome, Ken. They said I could do this, and we need to make this much. What's that number beyond the 72 that you'd want to make on the side? I think realistically, I could probably only do like $1,000 a month for the side hustles. But would you be excited to have that additional $12,000, or would that even make a dent? It wouldn't quite make a dent.

What's the goal of making more? You see where I'm going here? So we're scratching our head about making $12,000 that wouldn't make a dent. And to George's point, what do we need the additional income for out of your side hustles? What do we need it for? You mean on top of the income that I have already? Yes, and top of your $72,000.

Go ahead. Just to make more of a dent on our debt, because we're about $750,000 in debt. How much of that is mortgage? $490,000. Whoa, what's the other part? I know. Two cars, student loans, personal loans. My student loans are about $130,000. I have my master's. What does your husband do for a living? He's in sales, so he sells steel buildings. How much are your cars worth?

We're a little upside down in one of them, but the loans on those are about $40,000, $20,000 each. Okay. And what's your household income? He can make anywhere between, yeah, I'd say $60,000 for him, $70,000 if he's doing really good. Because we're, I'm going to give this to George. You've got to follow the baby steps. You're familiar with the baby steps, yes? Oh, yeah. Okay, so here's the deal. Your husband is in sales. In Colorado Springs, only making $60,000.

He needs to sell something that he can make a whole lot more money. Yeah. Listen, you work yourself silly with the limited time you have and make $12,000. That's like throwing a pebble in the ocean. He needs a six-figure sales job and working weekends and everything else. You need the stability and the benefits for where you are now. You guys got to clean up $250,000 of consumer debt. Sell the cars, everything we always say, but he needs to go make a whole lot more money.

He's selling the wrong things and not enough of it. We got a big hole here, and we got to get that shovel to match up. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. I'm George. He's Ken. Thanks to all the folks in the booth. And you, America, will be back before you know it. Take care.