The Ramsey Show - App - Ditching Debt Is the Fastest Path From Stress to Peace (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 16, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jade Warshaw, number one best-selling author, and Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Matthew's in Orlando. Hi, Matthew, how are you? Oh, I'm fantastic, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Wonderful. So I'm on baby step number two,

and my wife and I are thinking about buying a home compared to waiting until we pay off all of our debt, which is two cars, total of $60,000, before we go into buying a house. We're currently using all of our income to pay off the cars, but we're wondering if we should use what we have to put money down on a house.

No, you should pay off the cars. You know, here's another idea. You could just sell them. I was thinking that. What's your household income? What's your household income? We make just under $200,000. Okay.

And are the cars 30 apiece? 25 and 35. So how quickly can you pay them off if you just pay them off before you buy a house? We're thinking under six months, maybe even earlier, if we put everything we have towards them. So what's the big deal? You just got house fever? Yeah, well, my brother, who I'm very proud of,

who actually introduced me to you, he just sold his house and got $160,000 in equity, and he's able to move with his wife down to Florida. And we thought, wow, we're paying x amount of dollars in rent right now what if we took the next six months and started paying towards a house while we're paying off our cars but then we're like wait won't that stop us from paying off our debt and make paying off a house and getting to our goals uh wouldn't that make it take longer compared that's why we have the baby steps in the order they're in yeah you want the fullness of your income going towards paying off your debt while you have it.

And you think that if I get that car debt taken out completely, we probably could sell our cars, but I think... I don't think you need to. I think you just need to wait six months. You've got house fever. You're looking at somebody else's life and trying to make yours look like theirs. That's a bad plan. And what are your payments? What do you pay in every month for these cars? So one is $750 and one is $900.

So you're going to have an extra $1,500 a month as soon as you get them paid off. And you make enough to knock them out in six months. I agree with you. If I can pay them off in six months, I would just wait six months and pay off the cars and save up your down payment. There's no big deal here. There's another part of this, though, that we're not talking about. And I want to know, do you have three to six months of expenses saved? Because I totally do not want you moving into a house with debt and without additional savings. That's a recipe for disaster. No, we don't have that now. It's not time yet. I hate to tell you that, but it's not time yet.

No, that's really good to know. Thank you. I really needed to hear that. I'm glad. Thank you. Please, the fastest route between where you are right now and financial peace, two words that don't go together like airline service, the fastest route between where you are right now and being wealthy is pay the cars off, build an emergency fund, build a down payment, buy a house.

If you go in that order, if you go in a different order, it's going to slow you down or even set you back substantially. between now and you having a net worth of a million dollars and owning a home and having money going into your 401ks, the number of months, the shortest number of months is doing it the way we're talking about. It's not trying to do everything at one time because someone else just bought a house or sold a house. Well, let me tell you, nothing is worse than turning around, you buy a $500,000 house and then the goes out, and you don't have $5,000 to get a new AC. That is backwards. And so when you move into a home, and you don't have an emergency fund to cover the things that will happen eventually, you thought the leak was fixed, it's not fixed. You thought the roof was good, it's not good. There's always something.

Aaron is in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Aaron. How are you? Better than I deserve, Dave. Good. How can I help? My question is whether getting something like CarShield, which is an insurance against car maintenance, is a good idea given the fact that what I do for a living is DoorDash and Uber Eats? No. It's a horrible idea. Okay. Here's the numbers on extended warranties and car warranties.

85% of what you pay for a car warranty does not actually cover the math of the potential loss. The potential loss is covered by 12% to 15% of what you pay. So if you pay $1,000, you basically, on average, are going to get $150 worth of value. The other 85% goes to profit, to commissions, to marketing, and more marketing and uh so you know and if you're buying an extended warranty folks for there are others out there not aaron but if you're on a car lot and they're trying to sell you an extended warranty the car dealer very well may be making

more profit on the extended warranty than they are on the car. That's how bizarre these things are. The math on it is what they pay a car salesman or a car dealer to sell you an extended warranty as a percentage is huge. It is more than the actual cost. So, Erin, anytime you open an insurance company or a warranty company, you build a table of statistics okay it's called an actuarial table and if you're opening a life insurance company you say all right number of 60 year olds out of a thousand 60 year olds that are healthy how many die in a year and then you can back into the mathematics and say here's what it costs me to provide life insurance if I'm a life insurance company to a 60-year-old. And that's a statistical table.

Does that make sense? And you do the same thing if you're opening an extended warranty on a car or a home warranty or anything like that. You say, all right, I'm going to cover brakes, drivetrain, engine on what what's your car aaron what are you driving uh a 2012 ford fusion okay a 2012 ford fusion if i cover a thousand 2012 ford fusions my cost on average to to of the things i cover the number number of people out of 1,000 that are going to bring me claims when their car breaks down, my cost on average is going to be X. And that X is somewhere around 12% to 15% of what they're trying to charge you for an extended warranty. you could uh break down twice as much as average and still spend half as much as you pay for the warranty wow that's the that's the actual mathematics that's crazy so what if you just took that money and threw it in a high yield savings account and built you an emergency fund

look at that and up your budget uh for car repairs if you're running the wheels off your car 100 yeah you're gonna you're gonna have to literally put wheels on the car if you're running the wheels off your car. 100%. Yeah, you're going to have to literally put wheels on the car, tires. You're going to have to put brakes on the car, and you're going to have to run more oil changes, and you're going to have more and more miscellaneous odds and ends. More than anything else, though, Erin, you're losing value in the vehicle because miles cost you value. So you run the miles up, you're deteriorating your value very rapidly.

And that's an unseen force that doesn't hit your checkbook until you sell it. But, you know, you put 200,000 miles on this car, you trashed its value. And that's the other, that's the dirty little secret of door dashing. It's true. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's

harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join

at chministries.org slash budget at chministries.org slash budget. Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality is my co-host Matt is in Miami. Hi, Matt. How are you? Hey, Davey. I'm doing better than I deserve. How are you? Better than I deserve, sir. How are you? Hey, Davey. I'm doing better than I deserve. How are you? Better than I deserve, sir. What's up? Awesome. Glad to hear that. So I'm in a little bit of a situation here. I am following your baby steps and I currently have about $10,000 in debt in my car and I'm planning to pay that off soon. But I'm thinking about the next baby step, which is just trying to pay the house off as fast as I can. Right. So with that said, what is my situation right now? I have about $50,000 in the stock market and that $50,000 I'm using the stocks that I have to put covered calls on my stocks. Therefore,

it generates me about two thousand dollars per month being very conservative. Right. And I'm I'm a little divided because I can put that money back into the stock and make even more, put more contracts onto that stock and make more money, or I can direct all that premium that I receive for the stocks towards the payment of the car and the house. So I would like to get a perspective from you what would be the best way to go about that. I don't think you have any concept of how much risk you're taking. Okay.

You've hit with your covers. You haven't had a problem yet. And as soon as you miss one of those covers you're going to realize that 2 000 is not your worst case scenario conservatively a negative 10 000 is your worst case scenario right yeah you're playing dice in vegas and you feel and you feel like you're taking no risk at all because you think you've got it figured out. Yeah, you left out a very important word and a very important side of the equation. You said, I can make.

You didn't say potentially. And then you didn't say what could happen if you lose out. Yeah, if you miss the cover, if you miss the call, if you miss your numbers, you know what I'm talking about. You can get upside down as fast as you can get right side up here brother 78 percent statistically 78 percent of the people who day trade stocks lose money that's eight out of ten okay okay so i don't i do i do not day trade stocks i don't do puts i don't do calls i don't do options i don't do covers I don't do puts. I don't do calls. I don't do options.

I don't do covers. I don't do commodities. I don't screw with any of that stuff. I like the money that I earned too much to put it that much at risk. No, thank you. And I also don't play the roulette wheel in Vegas. Right. And they're all right there about the same level.

So what would I do if I were in your shoes? I would sell the $50,000 in stock this stock this instant pay off your car build your emergency fund make sure you're putting 15 of your income into retirement but matt you're like the guy who walked in walked through the uh lobby of this of the uh of the casino and dropped two quarters in and hit yes and you end up putting your whole freaking paycheck back in trying to replicate that bogus luck that you had that wasn't luck at all it was them playing you and that you know you you haven't you haven't you haven't bled yet from this i can tell yeah because you think it works every time and so it doesn't work every time dude i. I promise you. That's not how that business works.

And so, you know, you're risking and risking and risking and risking and risking and risking and risking. With money you don't have, really, because you're broke. You got $10,000 in debt. You don't have an emergency fund. And, you know, if you got $2 million in net worth and a bunch of money laying around and you want to goof off with $50,000 and screw around with it on the roulette table or screw around with it doing day trading, go ahead. I've got a friend of mine that does that. He thinks it's entertainment. I don't.

You don't do anything. I don't do anything. I do not own a single, single stock. That's so cool. If someone handed me one today, I would sell it. I love it. And it's because I'm such a nerd i know the probabilities yeah i know that if i the moment i start thinking i can do a better job than a billion dollar mutual fund at analyzing stocks the instant i think that is the instant i'm wrong yeah and i just don't do it i and

consequently i've got a lot of money because i don't lose it all the time and so that that's the deal so matt you're i i hope we're giving you a little something to think about i don't know if we are or not because i don't think you're in a very good place to hear this because you're at you're at the stage where you think you've got it figured out and everybody else is dumb and um that's a bad stage to be in that's right before you lose a bunch of money so i hope i can just scare you a little bit and you'll go ahead and stay away from this but i don't know usually you got to lose some to figure it out at least i lost five grand on a a gold option i took an option position on gold back before I went broke and I had some money. I had a lot of money flowing in. I was in my 20s and a buddy of mine came to me and he goes,

hey, this guy's been picking these gold prices and we'll set our option number. And if y'all don't know how option works, I had the option to buy the gold at X. And if it was above that, that option was going to go 10x i would have made 50 grand off that five grand okay and if you if the option number doesn't go above that you lose 100 of what you put in so it's either either got i don't get five grand back i either get 50 grand or zero but this guy hit 12 times in a row he predicted the option prices so me and my genius beer drinking buddy decides we've got this thing figured out because this guy's got it figured out we're going with this guy because he's got a pattern going he's got this thing figured out

bull crap and so i put five grand up and you know where this is going yeah i lost I lost the five grand uh but I have a rule I don't do stupid stuff two times I only do stupid stuff once fair enough I've already got that one out of the way that's fair enough that one's out of the way I don't ever have to do that stupid thing again and then I get to tell Matt please don't do it well there's two I always say there's dumb decisions there's two types of dumb decisions it's the dumb decision that you're like hey this is my first rodeo i didn't know any different i tried what i thought could work and i was wrong i learned from it right then you've got the stupid decision where everyone's telling you hey like if you do that you'll die like don't do it i've tried it this is what happens and then you go and do it anyway because you think you're the exception of the rule that's the stupid choice you

do not want to that's the the pride goes before the fall. Almost certainly. And when I think I'm smarter than the averages, when I think I'm the guy that can beat the averages, that's when you're getting ready to take it on the chin. So, Matt, I hope we give you something to think about. But I hope we did. I'll just leave it at that.

Steven's in Knoxville. Hi, Steven. How are you? Hey, Dave. I'm doing good. I'll just leave it at that. Steven's in Knoxville. Hi, Steven. How are you? Hey, Dave. I'm doing good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I find myself, my wife and I, we are in our first year of parenthood. We're two years out of grad school. And we talked to a real estate agent yesterday and basically it comes down to we can after fees and everything else we paid the mortgage off we've done everything else come out with about um between 250 and 300 000 you have a paid for home no no so that is the other thing i thought you said we got the We got the house just before the market went crazy. Okay. So you have $250,000 worth of equity? Yes.

Okay. So if you sell the house, you put a quarter million in your pocket. So what's your question? So the issue is, in total, we have no other debts except for student loans, but we have $183,000 in student loans. Good Lord. Oh, boy. So, yes. What's your household income? So, we, this year, are bringing home about $112,000. What in the world did you get your post-grad in?

So, my wife, I got mine in advertising as an undergrad. I only have about $13,000 in student loans. And my wife has the rest, and she has her doctorate in psychology. So what are you trying to do, sell the house? Is she working? Yes, she is working. But neither one of you are making much, huh? No. So with this being the year that our son was born, with her being a child psychologist, we made the decision and felt the conviction that one of us needed to be home. So she works half the week, and then I work the other half of the week. I've been something to think about for you on $100,000 and something thousand dollars in debt to become a child psychologist.

Yes. Oh, my gosh. Okay. psychologist yes oh my gosh um okay but i i would not sell you i would not sell your house unless you just hate it i would roll up my sleeves live on nothing and both of you get to work as fast as you possibly can and get this student loan debt cleared up no excuses no reasons you need to get it cleaned up if you want to sell your house and live in a rental and be debt-free, you can do that. But you're still going to have to go make some money

to justify the expense that both of you went to. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story, and it's a lie. In our self-obsessed society, we're obsessed about our own diets,

our own workout routines, our own jobs, our own social media feeds, everything. It's easy to forget that no one can do life alone. And I don't care if you're an introvert, an extrovert, or whatever you want to call yourself. We all have to have a community and a support system to do life alone. And I don't care if you're an introvert, an extrovert, or whatever you want to call yourself, we all have to have a community and a support system to do life with. It's time to shift the focus from doing it all by ourselves to knowing that we can only be well and whole when we ask for help. Therapy can be a great source of help and support for any area of your life. And if you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, so it can fit with your schedule. To get started, just fill out a short

online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Ramsey Radio. Buying a house in this weird real estate market is weird. Selling a house in this weird real estate market is weird. Selling a house in this weird real estate market is weird. If you want to navigate weirdness with one of your most expensive, if not your most expensive asset, you probably need a pro in your corner who's done it before. Not your Aunt Sally who got her license to sell real estate three weeks ago because she thinks it's fun no no sorry aunt sally you want a pro

who's high octane high protein that does hundreds if not close to a hundred transactions a year and that's the only way you would get to be a ramsey trusted real estate agent an endorsed local provider that and there's thousands of them across America that we have vetted. We've done the due diligence on them. They're the people that get her done. They leave the cave, kill something and drag it home, baby. And if you want that kind of real estate agent in your corner to help you buy or sell, just go to ramseysolutions.com slash agent to find a Ramsey-trusted real estate agent for free. Pedro is with us in Chicago.

Hi, Pedro. How are you? Hey, doing good. Doing good, David. It's an honor. Honor to speak with you, sir. How can we help? Okay, so I'm about to remarry my first girlfriend, the mother of our three grown-up and working daughters.

I just found out she makes about $6,000 to $6,300 net a year, and finally got out of her that when I was trying to make a budget for our soon-to-come plan that she owes over $76,000 in credit cards. So I would have no issues paying it. We could probably pay it off in a year, year and a half after we get married. It just makes me mad. And I'm considering three options, uh, filing for chapter 13 bankruptcy. I don't care if the credit goes bad. We don't ever plan on taking any credit ever again. So it's not a concern for me. Negotiating with the credit cards for a lower, uh, payoff of the credit cards, or the third one, just forget everything and just attack them with a little intensity and pay them off.

What would you recommend? Chapter 13 bankruptcy is five years long, and there is a formula used to determine what percentage of the debt she would have to repay. And they would use her income against that formula and over five years with only 76 000 she's going to pay almost all of it over five years so you're going to gain almost nothing mathematically with a chapter 13 bankruptcy and there's an uh a means test used to see if you can file a chapter 7 bankruptcy and wipe them completely clean she will not pass that because she has the means to pay this. She just hasn't because she has a spending problem, which is your bigger problem than the $76,000.

You're getting ready to marry a woman who doesn't know how to stop spending. Yes, yes. I'm not too worried about that. I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure I've got to worry about it. We'll get on your program and we'll pay it off and I'm pretty sure in less than a year, year and a half. Why do you think she'll suddenly change?

I think she's carried this for many years and she's been just unable to get out of it. But I've known her and I'm sure she'll be willing to do the program, get on the program and just... Okay, you've talked to come to do the program get on the program and just okay you've talked to her about it absolutely yeah yes okay all right because i can tell you

that there's nothing in this story that tells me that she's going to be willing to do this or able to do this so you must know you know something we don't know yeah yeah i'm just going with the right way we'll have one account, one budget. We're going in the whole program. I know, but you can't muscle this if she's pulling against you. And so has she said, I'm out of control, I need help, I don't know what to do, I'll do anything? Yes, yes. That's called repentance, and that's a chance of turning this around.

If she said, well, it's just the way life is, you're screwed. No, no, no, no, no. She's been crying. She's been carrying the shame for years, trying to struggle, trying to get out of it without finding solutions. Okay, that's a different side because when you first said you said you were mad and that, you know, so that's why I was trying to get he's mad at the credit card company taking advantage of her yeah my mother credit card company is being able to lend people more

money than to make in a year i got you yeah yeah yeah so um what would i do if i woke up in your shoes um i would put your income and her income together when we get married as you said on one budget and i would list these and i would work a debt snowball and i would pay them off in a year okay that's simple yeah we can do that that's simple it's not about credit it's about she borrowed the money it's about your wife's integrity she has the money to pay her bills she should pay her bills now that she's marrying you and has a system and your income to add to it. And by the way, she had the money all along to do something towards this and to not continue to dig this hole. She's not a victim.

She chose to spend more than she makes. She didn't make a lot of money, but she chose to not live on that to the tune of 76 grand and so um you know these are very concerning things in a second marriage and you're coming back in and you're sounds like a lot of years in between the two times you've been married to her and well yeah a lot going on here brother uh you probably ought to sit down spend some time and do some good in-depth pre-marriage counseling and dig into this and this money piece is part of the things that we discuss as we do that just to make sure that we're we're i'm not saying you guys can't make it i think you can make it because i think you're a strong dude uh but but i would want the information that a good counseling session or two would give me so if we gave people

listening let's start with three questions to ask before you tie the knot three questions like three three main points financially to discuss my first one would be like what's your philosophy around debt like if you do you like debt Are you interested in paying off the debt you have? Are you interested in going back into debt or do you want to avoid it? That would be my first question. Second question, probably would be something around the lines of what's your philosophy on combining money? Is it yours versus mine? Is it ours? do you trust me enough to combine like i'd want to know about that and i'd probably want to know their spending slash saving inclination that's good i like those three you got anything to add or are we

slamming the gavel no i mean if you're gonna you're gonna, you know, like if I was coaching a 23-year-old couple that was engaged, and they were going through a normal cycle of pre-marriage counseling, which, by the way, increases the probability of your marriage lasting. If you do get married after doing pre-marriage counseling, because sometimes they'll break you up,

but if you do get married after doing pre-marriage counseling, you have a very high probability of making it. The data on this is clear, okay? That is true. So let me add that in there. But if you were doing that, and a good pre-marriage counselor, one of the things I would always put in there is a practice budget. Oh, that's good. Where you act like you're married and say okay here's all of our debt now it's ours here's all of our income what does this month look like and then that exposes what the

philosophies are that's good on debt on saving on spending and on lattes and whatever yeah well everything but pumpkin spice you know it's like yeah all right so um uh so you know everything but my nails you know or i don't know yeah or what is the guy every everything but me buying going hunting i have to get a guy in there right golf clubs i need a i got everything but my my uh the club fees i can't drop my club fees yeah so yeah i mean you you really get into what's yeah what the deal is all right so yeah a good practice budget because we do know the numbers as well and this is a very high probability that all the marriage data tells us if you're in agreement before marriage in detail on four areas your probability of making it is in the 90 percentile money is the number one cause

of divorce money fights and money problems so if you're in agreement on money you got number one out of the way that's right kids how many to have and who runs the house after you have them the kid or the parents ah how we raise these yeah how do we raise is anarchy going to be the deal here okay uh in-laws and crazy people in the family. How are we going to deal with the extended family? Is mama still going to tell me how to cook? She better not. Nope, nope, nope.

And religion. That's a biggie. Unequally yoked. If you're in agreement on religion, money, in-laws, and kids, you have a very high probability of making it. Okay. There you go. This is The Ramsey Show. Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, is my co-host today.

Our question of the day comes from Susie in Florida. She says, I'm at my wit's end with my husband's spending. We got married young, back then I assumed the poor choices were due to his age. I thought over the years that he would learn from his mistakes, but he hasn't. He recently racked up $125,000 in non-housing debt and it's not the first time we've refinanced or sold our houses two other times to clear his debt. I'm embarrassed to admit that I found myself scouring the couch cracks for enough quarters to buy a gallon of milk.

He recently maxed out his credit cards and then took out an annuity to pay them off. He has sold my paid off car so that he could pay off debts. He comes home with something new whenever he pleases. About a year ago, I opened my own savings account. I'm afraid that our marriage will crumble and I'll need to move out. I even went back to school to finish my degree so that I could support myself if we separate. I have always stayed debt-free and saved what I could.

I feel disrespected and fear that our family is at risk at all times. At this point, I'm so full of resentment and distrust that I'm constantly angry and anxious. What should I do? Well, yeah, you've got a problem. It's beyond a money problem. It's looking like a money problem, but it's beyond that. He's got a lot of problems. And the fact that you've already separated yourself to the extent that you have. You're looking at a life without him and you're getting your education to do that. You're setting aside money to do that. So in your mind, there is a line that he's crossed a long time ago. And it sounds like you're in this position where it's like, once I get my footing, I'm out the door. And I don't know what you guys have talked about in way of counseling. You know, I kind of have this acronym

when you're in these situations. I always say it's a safe acronym about keeping your money safe. And it's the S's, you need to seek counsel if you are experiencing things like A, addiction, abuse, F, financial infidelity, right? Those are the times that we seek counsel. And then from there, the E is you need

to evaluate your options. What is it? Is it me having to separate funds for him in order to keep myself and family safe for a while until the right counseling has taken place and we've seen evidence of change? Is it I've got to get myself in a safe environment if there's some sort of abuse? So it sounds like you've already started implementing that, but I don't know about the counseling. That's the one thing I haven't seen here. And that's going to be paramount for you guys, if there's ever even a chance of this working out, because he's a child. And I'm wondering if you're racking up this kind of debt, Dave, correct me if I'm wrong, it's something going on. $125,000 in non-housing debt, and this is happening more than once i i gotta wonder if there's anything

going else with another lifestyle if there's some sort of addiction i just don't see how you can do that and you're looking for money for a gallon of milk yeah um so suzy your marriage is over yeah now the only question is can it be healed and put back together um the only shot at that is to get some professional help because you're you know i don't you i can tell from reading this that you're done but you don't even realize you're done she's done stick a fork in it you're done and but you don't even realize you're done. Ah, she's done. Stick a fork in it. You're done. And really, with what you've described, no one listening is blaming you.

Mm-mm. We're sick of this guy, everybody that read this with us. So you're done. Now, can it be salvaged? Yeah, it can be. Probability's fairly low, because two major things have to happen. He's going to have to change and you're going to have to change. And you guys got to have some help doing that.

So get in touch with a marriage counselor. He likely is not willing to go to marriage counseling, but you need to go sit down with one, and then they can give you words and phrases and give you clear thought on exactly how this is going to go down. But normally the way this would go down would be you would sit down with him after meeting with a counselor and say, I'm not willing to live like this anymore. Period. If you will not go to marriage counseling and you will not go to financial peace university with me, and you will not live on an agreed budget and you will not quit spending more than we make and crashing our lives continually.

I'm done. That's probably what the counselor is going to instruct you to say. It's called an ultimatum. And then let's see if that gives Bubba the wake-up call because this is one seriously immature dude. The axis of the world runs straight through the center of his head. He thinks the whole thing revolves around him. And he's a baby child and so if baby child can wake up and go i'll do anything i'll do anything i don't want to lose you yeah well we'll see because you're about to do a lot of stuff that you've never done in all these years and that's called grow up be a man learn to delay pleasure learn

to live on less than you make learn to agree on spending with your spouse have a written detailed plan save money don't just spend money invest money don't just spend money be generous to other other people other than yourself you selfish little immature jolly and so he's got a lot of changing to do and you've got uh you've put up with this for so long you've become accustomed to crazy and you kind of think crazy is normal so you've got some changing to do because crazy ain't normal this what you're describing is not normal and i'm a little bit aghast that it took you this long to wake up and there's something broken in you that caused you to wait this long to wake up so sit down with a coach counselor and um because i'm guessing baby child's not gonna go

and then you can you can go back home and explain to him with the tv off and the kids in the bed that this is what's going to happen i'm going to pack up and i'm going to leave if you don't agree to these terms because i'm no longer willing to live like this and something along those lines is going to be the process and marriage counseling financial coaching and counseling like financial peace university a written detailed budget and for this point forward agreement on every dollar that goes out the door yeah and i'm no longer going to scrounge in the couch after all these years and how much money we make for a gallon of milk that's asinine and i'm not going to live like this and see the problem is you you never even said that

except in your head and so now you've got to have some coaching on how to sit this down because you're you are going to put your marriage on the line when you make this statement because if he does not change then you will be required to walk back out and be done you've got to make a decision because if you decide to stay in crazy, then you're just part of crazy. That's right. That's right. You're just crazy as crazy is then.

And everybody gets crazy. So yeah, this is out of control. Wow. It's tough. Refinanced and sold two houses to clear this debt. Yeah, I mean, it's a constant flow of self-centeredness and immaturity yeah at a minimum at a minimum now again if he if you decide i'm going to be strong speak my mind and require reasonableness to live here yeah and he decides i'm going to go along

with reasonableness and a plan and we're going to heal this and turn this around. I've seen things worse than this. Yeah, all things are possible, 100%. But the choices that have to be made are very difficult on both sides. Number one, he's changing who he is when it comes to money. And then two, he's just changing who he is. Yeah. And the money will be part of it. That's true. And then three or two for her, she's got to, like, there's a side of her that the forgiveness on this is tough and the ability to go okay we're starting a new thing I've got to hold up my end of the bargain I can't keep holding old stuff over the head but at the same time I have to let that in like that is a very hard line to walk only counseling can help that you know but Susie Jade opened up and she's exactly right with the thing that your marriage

is over. You've already separated yourself emotionally, career, savings account. You've already ended this in your head. You've just not actually had the courage to say it out loud and you to yourself. Even you've just taken these little steps to kind of like prepare as if there's a storm coming that might not hit well the storm has already hit the damage is done you got to do it you got you're gonna have to deal with this head-on or you it's your only chance of saving it wow i'm so sorry

honey what a mess this is the ramsey show Thank you. Take care.