The Ramsey Show - App - Do NOT Get a HELOC To Buy a Rental! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: June 24, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: Should you take advantage of your employer's tuition reimbursement, Whether or not to do a company 401(k) if it doesn't have a match, Why you shouldn't get a HELOC to buy a rental.   Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where dad is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose and Ramsey Personality. Host of The Ken Coleman Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

This is The Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing actual relationships. Todd is with us. Todd is in Mesa, Arizona. Hi, Todd. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. up to see if I should prolong my education to take advantage of my employer's tuition reimbursement program. The total cost of this program is going to be $30,000. But the one caveat is my employer, they only reimburse up to $10,000 a year. And I would prefer to just rip this bandaid off and get the program done within two years. So that'd be $15,000 a year, leaving me responsible to cover approximately $5,000. Do you have that cash on hand where you could cover it we do uh currently uh my

wife and i were we're saving up for a down payment on hopefully our our first home good what are you studying uh this is going to be a master's of engineering for mine engineering what does it do to your income when you get that uh the roi on it would be pretty great uh i think it would pretty much boost it about 30 grand in one year that kind of answers the question doesn't it like if you got it a year sooner you'd get the 30 grand a year sooner and you're only paying 10 grand to do that yeah yeah it was you know wait a minute stop stop make sure i didn't miss something okay if you get it in two years you get an a 30 grand raise in the third year that you wouldn't get uh into if you hadn't finished, right? Okay, yep.

And to do that, you have to come out of pocket with $10,000. Five each year. Yep. Which you have. I'm trading $10,000 for $30,000. Good trade. I like it when you frame it like that. I'm just kind of being a cheapskate yes but no yeah you're cutting your nose off spite your face so buddy yeah and todd you're the one that said

just moments ago i want to rip the band-aid off and get it done and oh yeah and so the math supports your desire so this is a no-brainer how big a company is this they're multinational uh mining giant okay perfect i know where this is going because you know what they need they need what you do really bad and you're a fairly rare bird that that is true okay so what i'm gonna do is walk into my supervisor and go dude y'all need to up it yeah in my i need a little waiver i need a little amendment to the uh big corporate giant stupid butt policy and y'all need to pay 15 a year for mine uh that way i'm helping you at adding value to your organization our organization organization, at a faster pace.

And I'll even sign something that says if I leave before the end of the third year when you would have given me the money anyway, I'll pay it back. Yeah, I love that, Dave. I love it. All right. Because, hey, listen, that's not going to offend them. You have no risk in that conversation as long as you keep that posture of just hey here's an idea here's a thought here's what the rules say i can knock this out in two would you guys consider that that's not going to be negative even if they say well we're not going to do it you're not going

to hurt yourself yeah but i mean they you know listen just talk to your supervisor listen how hard are you guys out there recruiting people for this exact role right now and i'm willing to step into that role a year sooner but i need a waiver and i'm even willing to guarantee you a zero risk on it because if i leave early i would pay it back that that's like even you might even get corporate america to think about that dave i don't know that makes too much sense yeah we're trying to get brain cells to work here. But yeah, that's a cool thing. Either way, you're doing it. Even if you come out of pocket with it, you're doing it.

That's correct. Because a 10 trading for 30 is a good trade. Yeah. This is, I want to do it or I'm going to regret. You will regret it on some level. Short-term regret. But why? You don't need to.

You got the money. And here's the other thing. You'll make up that 10 grand faster for that house payment anyway. Dave just played the math out for you so this doesn't hurt the dream in any way of buying the house yeah your your instinct towards the band-aid was the correct instinct and uh the neat thing about someone that's got this much engineering under their belt is that math is their second language anyway so he already felt the math he just hadn't done it the way i did it so you can they just it's down in the dna is swirling around he's going i know this is right i just can't figure out why it's right so all right claire is with us claire's in nashville

hi claire how are you hi dave super excited to talk to you today you too how can we help yeah so i just accepted a job with a new company and i'm very excited about it but i did realize that this company doesn't offer a 401k match they have a 401k um just no match so my question for you is should i participate in this 401k or should i just open up a roth ira what do you think well once you're out does the 401k offer Roth um it's a traditional only is that what you're saying okay yeah no you would do a Roth IRA first here's the math the math says take all the match first you don't have that Roth is better than traditional so you max out your Roth before you do any traditional and then if that doesn't get you to your 15% in Baby Step 4, then you would do some in traditional.

But Roth is better than traditional. Match is better than Roth. And so Roth beats, I mean, match beats Roth beats traditional. And the best of all worlds is a match with a Roth, obviously, but you don't have that. And, of course, you're not doing any of this if you're not at baby step four and you don't have your emergency fund in place and you're not debt-free other than your house right right I am already in baby step four perfect you're rocking it girl I will add to that my current employer now so this is a new position I'm accepting but my current employer I have been contributing

to the 401k with them because they had a match. So that should just roll over into another 401k? No, I would just roll it to a traditional IRA. And you pick some mutual funds. So what you need to do is you need to jump on RamseySolutions.com, click SmartVestor Pro, find some of the folks there in your area that we recommend for investing. We're not in the investing business, but these are people. You're in Nashville.

It's probably the same people I use. And so you're going to sit down, get a Roth IRA going, and do a direct transfer rollover to a traditional IRA from the old 401K, and you'll have no taxes on that if you do the direct transfer. And that's what you should do so hey good question congratulations on the new job this is the ramsey show Did you know, statistically, when it comes to life insurance and protecting your family, that women are more likely to be uninsured or underinsured than men. This doesn't make any sense. Women make up half the workforce, contribute mightily to family incomes, and in many cases are the breadwinners

and take care of their families 24 hours a day. This is one of the most overlooked areas when it comes to financial planning. Maybe it's a relic of the past, but a loss of income or the need to replace family care is equally important for women as it is for men. Single moms, working moms, and stay-at-home moms all need term life insurance. Rates are actually lower for women, which is why I send you to Zander Insurance. They shop the top term life companies to find the lowest rates available. You can compare rates online at Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. This is something every family has to deal with. That's Zander.com or 800-356-4282. We'll be right back. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host.

Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Chris is in Springfield, Missouri. Hey, Chris, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. It's an honor to be on the show here. Well, thank you. How can we help? I want to know your opinion on, okay, I bought my first house last summer.

Me and a couple of friends renovated it. According to my realtor, we increased the value by about 50 grand, and I have some aspirations to become a small-time landlord. I was wondering if it's a totally dumb idea to get a HELOC on my current house for a down payment for a second house and turn the first one into an Airbnb or a rental. Yeah. Chris, how old are you? 26. Good for you.

Cool. And what do you do for a living? I'm a plumber. Good. Okay. So when you say, we did this renovation, do we own the house or you own the house and your friends helped you with the renovation? I own the house and they helped. Okay.

So it's completely in your name? Yes. And the house, and they helped. Okay. So it's completely in your name? Yes. And the house is worth how much? Roughly $160,000 after the fact. And so you think you could sell it for $160,000 and you owe like $110,000? I owe about $100,000. About $100,000. Okay. So you got about 60 equity minus expenses all right cool all right yeah well in fairness as i answer the question when i was to tell you who's answering

the question when i was uh 23 24 years old i started buying and selling real estate using the nothing down real estate techniques that were promising back 35 years ago. They're the same ones that are out there floating around today telling you to buy real estate and get rich in real estate. And so I didn't have any money. I started buying real estate. I started borrowing all the money to buy all the real estate. I got rich.

By the time I was your age at 26, I had four million dollars worth of real estate starting from nothing and i had over a million dollar net worth uh the problem was i had no idea the influence of debt on that situation and i was flipping houses that's what i was doing i was fixing them and flipping them um i actually hired crews to do it. I know how to swing a hammer, but I was choosing to do more volume than my hammer would do by itself, and so I just would set up a crew or hire a painter or hire a plumber or whatever to get the different rehab things done on the houses I was fixing

and flipping. Some of them I was holding as rentals. And so I tell you all of that to tell you I aspired at that time to do what you aspire to do now. It's what I wanted to be and it's what you want to be. Fair enough? Yes. What happened was the bank got sold that I was dealing with to another bank, and they looked over and saw that they felt like this 26-year-old kid owed them too much money,

and they called our notes. And we spent the next two and a half years of our life fighting through severe banking technicalities that I didn't even know existed and losing everything that we owned. We were sued. We were foreclosed on. And finally, we were bankrupt. At the bottom of that, I started studying how money works. And I started talking to old rich people.

I didn't want to talk to young rich people. I had been him. I didn't want his advice. It didn't work. And old rich people started telling me this thing called common sense. And as a Christian, I started studying the Bible, and it talks negatively about debt 100% of the time. And so I figured out that this debt thing didn't work,

and I started buying my i bought my first piece of real estate after that with cash it took me a little while because it's hard to get the cash together and you made some quick you made some quick easy money plus or minus your sweat in this house but it's been fairly quick and it feels like you could do it all the time a lot did it a lot i did it a lot but it still came crashing down around my ears so that's the guy you're talking to he not only wanted to do what you're talking about but he did it and i did it with debt and it backfired on me and it wasn't that i was stupid it was the debt is stupid and so all of that to answer your question and say, no, I would not borrow on a HELOC to go buy a rental.

I would keep working like a crazy man as a plumber. I'd get this house paid off if you're going to live in it. Or I would sell it and take $50,000, $60,000 and buy a tiny little cheap something and flip it with cash. And if you want to do some flips with cash, I'm in. I'm fine with that that especially where you're swinging a hammer and some of your buddies are doing the renovation with you and that kind of stuff that's all cool but i'll tell you now i own that was 35 years ago that we crashed 30 years ago that we crashed 35 years ago that story started and uh today i own several hundred million dollars

in real estate the building i'm sitting in is worth a hundred million. And so, and it's all paid for, 100%. I do not borrow money for anything ever after that experience. So I tell you a big, long story to give you a really solid, no, don't do that. Yeah. You know, I love the point you make. He's a young guy. And if he's not living in that house, flip that. Get you an apartment.

Yes, sir. I don't mind you renting and flipping. Yes, sir. But pay cash. That's right. Pay cash. He's off to a good start there if he flips that now. Yeah, and it's a good time to make a little money if you can get in one at a deal.

Very difficult to find a deal right now. Yeah. Like, almost impossible. Needle in a haystack. Yeah, I was shocked at how much that house cost. Yeah, but you can do that, and it's possible in Springfield, Missouri. I mean, that's a great market, and I want you to go live your dream. I don't want you to let it turn into a nightmare, and it has for me.

Oh, and by the way, there was a whole bunch of people did nothing down real estate then. I was actually in a nothing down real estate club back then chris that had 150 members let me tell you how many of those guys are still doing real estate deals with nothing down zero let me tell you how many of those guys went broke all of us all of us all of us went broke no one made it out using that technique. Now, I do know one guy started selling the properties off, taking the equities and paying off the others. He ended up with a portfolio about one-third the size of his original portfolio,

downgraded by 70%, but turned out with cash. He went the other way from the nothing down to 100% debt-free, and he's still managing those properties I ran into him the other day. But the guys that persisted with this nothing down bullcrap stuff that's sold in these weekend seminars 100 failure rate a decade later two decades later so i want to stay there dave because it's still being sold and it's being glamorized on social media oh big time so what's what are they not telling them they They're telling you, oh, you can do all this, but there's something they're not telling them. They're not properly

portraying the risk. What's the hidden information they're not sharing? The nothing down deal only works if everything goes perfect and nothing ever goes perfect. That's it. Risk. Debt equals risk. More debt equals more risk. If you owe $100,000 on something, that's debt equals more risk if you owe a hundred thousand dollars on on something that's a lot more risk than if you owe one thousand dollars on that thing so more debt equals more risk 100 of the time because you got to carry it if it doesn't sell you got to carry it if the fed decides to jack up rates oh wait that happened you got to carry it if there's a pandemic oh wait that happened you got to carry it even if you lose your job because of the pandemic oh you got to carry it even if there's hyperinflation so it freezes the market like a deer in the headlights

oh these are real freaking things that happen and they happen to me you got to carry it if the president changes the tax legislation and change it and flips all investment property on its head. Ronald Reagan completely destroyed the real estate market while I was in the middle of it. I'm a Ronald Reagan fan, but the worst presidential decision he made completely undid the investment real estate market by flipping the depreciation schedules off, changing the value of real estate with one stroke of the pen, and it turned the S&L business on its head back then, the savings and loan industry. And you can't control that crap because you're not the president. And it affects things out of your control come in and make you stupid when it's stress tested,

always reveals itself to be stupid. You can tell it was skinny dipping when the tide goes out. Uh-oh. That's what they don't know. We'll be right back. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, best-selling author, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. On the debt-free stage, Reba and Michael are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. Good, Dave. how are you? Good. Good, Dave. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. New dance coming. Where do you guys live? Just outside of Louisville, Kentucky. Okay, not too bad a run to Nashville. Good to have you. And how much debt have you guys paid off? It was $138,000 in 10 years. I love it. Good for you. And your range of income during that decade? It started out around, let's see.

You know who the nerd is now. Yes, I am the nerd. So it started out at $104,000 and then last year it was $133,000. Cool. What do you all do for a living? I own my own business and I clean houses. Good. I am a truck driver for a food service company. Excellent. Excellent. Good. Okay. So what kind of debt was the $138,000? It was our house.

Whoa! Looking at weird people! Absolutely. Thus the decade. I get it. Yes. So tell me the whole story. How far back does all this start?

Well, our first big, what was it called, when you buy a brand new car? That's not a good idea. Stupid tax? There you buy a brand new car. That's not a good idea. Stupid tax? There you go. There you go. That was our first one about six months after we got married, which today is our 20th wedding anniversary. Oh, good.

So we just kind of kept that around forever. So I think it was around 12 years ago before we were like, we need to be done with this, you know. And so we got a hold of the CDs, the radio program, all that stuff. And then we decided, like we finally got on the same page. So you went through Financial Peace University is what you're saying.

Well, we kind of did like the CDs ourselves. Okay, the at-home study. Yes, so we did that. And then that's when we finally got on the same page and we're like, okay, let's actually do this. So we got rid of that little bitty debt. I think it was like $10,000 in like, what, two months? A couple months, yeah.

Yeah, so I was like, I don't deserve a debt-free screen because that was like too fast. So let's wait for our house. So yeah, we got on the same page and then decided to tackle this after that. Okay, just like that, huh? Yeah, so we refinanced our house 10 years ago, the week that our third daughter was born. And we got it paid off right before her 10th birthday. All right. I like that.

Happy birthday. Definitely. I love it. She's the debt-free kid. There you go. I love it. Very cool. This is fun, you guys.

All right, so basically you lived the first half of your marriage normal. Yeah. cool this is fun you guys all right so basically you lived the first half of your marriage uh normal yeah had a wake-up call and said okay no way and you blaze through the car debt and then take tear into the house it takes 10 years yeah it was hard too it is hard very hard a long time yeah saying no you know keeping really old cars i think our cars are older than our kids so you know so now it's like we get to save up and actually get some nicer things. Yeah. I mean, so that's really fun. We always talk about in these journeys what's on the other side of this for folks, right? Yeah.

And it's always something a little bit different. You've got the kiddos. You're talking about cars. But as you look back on that journey, you've mentioned a couple times it was really hard. There's some stories there. A, was it worth it? And B, what are you most excited about in this future of truly being debt-free? No house payment, nothing.

Well, in the immediate future, I think we're going to baby-step some of the things in our house that need to be replaced. Like, we're going to start with a toaster. Oh. And we're going to work our way up to a little bit newer cars. So that's what I'm really excited about. You like a good piece of toast. I understand. Toaster.

We're heading home, getting me a toaster as soon as I do this debt-free screen. That's awesome. It was totally worth it, definitely. I mean, it was just hard. Probably the hardest thing for me, being the nerd, is realizing my way is not exactly the right way, you know? Kind of slow down and bring in the free spirit and kind of work together and realize it's okay once we finally decide like okay this is what we're both going to

do and then go for it yeah very cool all right what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is you paid off your house and everything by what age uh she i just turned 40 and i turned 45 okay you're really young you have paid four houses yep this is pretty cool what's this house worth uh i think it's about 200 250 yay somewhere around there feels pretty good doesn't it oh yeah okay so what's the secret to getting out of debt house and everything a lot of people think they'll have a mortgage their whole lives yeah no you want to take that one um just really getting on the same page and deciding what you want to do and um i mean that's it's pretty legit for me i think by that she means

the free spirit gets on the nerd page i think and me calming down too you know i can be a bit intense yeah so you give a little grace and he and he tightens up a little bit and we meet in the middle there and because we have a shared goal yes and the goal is uh to be dead freehouse and everything and now you can do anything you want to do including get a new toaster there you go there we go happy about that sounds like a good plan so if you live like no one else later you can live and give like no one else can get a toaster i thought you were gonna say if you live like no one else later you can live and eat toast like no one else can get a toaster. I thought you were going to say, if you live like no one else later, you can live and eat toast like no one else. There you go.

I'm looking forward. All of a sudden, I'm thinking about a piece of toast tomorrow morning. I mean, it's something I haven't had in a while. Come on, Ken. I'm serious. You're killing me here. I'm telling you. Who doesn't love a good new toaster?

I love it. Way to go, you guys. Thank you. Way to go. We're very proud of you. All right. Bring the kiddos in. Tell us their names and ages. Way to go. We're very proud of you. All right, bring the kiddos in. Tell us their names and ages.

So we have Hannah, that's 14. Elena is 12. Evie is 10. And then Dylan is 7. All right. And so the 10-year-old is ready to go here. This is that free scream that matches. I love it.

Very cool. I love it. Good stuff, you guys. Thank you. We got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. How Ordinary People Built Extraordinary Wealth. How You Can Too. That is the next chapter in your story.

You've done all the stuff. You're Baby Step 7. You're ready to go. You're going to be unbelievably wealthy. It's going to blow your mind where this ends up if you stay on track. So I'm very proud of you. Also a copy of Total Money Makeover for you guys to give away and be a blessing to someone. Stir up a ruckus somewhere with that for me. Absolutely. That i like doing stirring up a ruckus i'm pretty good at it

too all right reba and michael hannah ellen e evie and dylan from louisville kentucky 138 000 paid off in 10 years that's their house and everything they're weird people to 133 income. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Yeah! Ha, ha, ha, ha! This is how it's done.

Oh, my goodness. That's powerful. Okay, so she cleans houses and he drives a truck they're 45 years old and they have paid for 250 000 house i don't know what neighborhood you grew up in but my neighborhood we call that impressive yes yes that's pretty amazing oh yeah and so you know you know you don't have to be making 500 000 a year some kind of specialist doctor or something to do this stuff people are doing it every day from every walk of life in every area of the country in every situation. They're making the decision to be intentional and turn this thing around.

It's very, very possible. And, you know, you've got to get on the same page. We always hear that. You've got to be on a budget. We always hear that. You know, you've got to – the communication in a marriage is always vital. These are the ones that always come up over and over and over and over and over and over again. You can watch literally now thousands of debt-free screams on YouTube that are posted there,

and there is a track that runs through all of them. Yeah, it's really true. And, you know, it's always special to see a family with younger kids reach this moment, this pinnacle, because now we're talking about their future and how it affects how they grow up. I mean, they've got kids that are preteens, they've got teens, and it changes everything for this family. It's not just the financial piece. I mean, that's worth it in and of itself.

But the ability to then craft a future. I don't want people to miss what you say all the time. This idea of live like no one else, live and give. That's giving to their kids. That's giving, obviously, in their community. And I got to tell you, I love the truck driver and the small business owner, you know, cleaning houses, untold amount of hours she probably worked and and just uh it's it's a phenomenal testimony to struggling now to prosper later you know and everybody wants to prosper few are willing to struggle yeah you gotta you gotta do the you gotta do the thing man i mean no one wins on accident it is a series of intentional decisions developing into habits, developing into just, you know, redefining who I am.

I'm not that person anymore. I used to be that guy, but I'm not that guy anymore. And I used to be a guy with a mortgage. Now I'm not a guy with a mortgage. I like that. That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool stuff. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. Thank you for joining us, America.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Kaylee is with us in Fort Worth, Texas. Hey, Kaylee, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi there. How are y'all doing? Better than we deserve. How can we help? Well, y'all, I'm tired. I have a bachelor's and a master's degree in biology, and I'll tell y'all right now that master's in biology is the biggest mistake I ever made. I'm currently working at a nonprofit as a supervisor. I've been here for about three years, and I really want to quit my job. I'm not enjoying my work anymore. I feel like I've been sidelined. I don't feel appreciated, but I'm too afraid to quit. I've got my husband who he wouldn't be able to take care of all of

us if I were to quit, and then I've got a 10-month-old baby boy, and so I'm not really sure where to go from here. Well, let's first deal with the fear. There's nothing for you to be afraid of because you're not going to quit without something to walk into. Okay? Yeah. So let's just go ahead and let's remove all of that because you're not going to do that. You have responsibilities.

And while you're burned out, let's be grateful in this next season, whatever that length of time is going to be. Let's focus on being grateful. That's how you hang on. I'm grateful for the check. I'm going to be a good steward of the time there because I've got to be. So stability is the thing we're grateful for. For 30 to 60 days while you land something new. That's it.

All right. So let me ask you, before Ken goes on, let me ask you this, okay? What do you make? I make $15 an hour. Okay. So you find a job that pays the equivalent of $30 an hour, doing something that, as you look at it, makes you excited and makes you smile. And you take that job, and you accept the position that they offer you.

There is no fear if that happens in quitting, is there? No. There would be like a celebration, not fear. Right, absolutely. Confetti, dancing out, the whole thing, right? Right. Okay. Ken?

Yeah. So I think you have some ideas, and I think you're a little bit concerned about what that looks like to step into that. So let's suspend all doubt and all fear of stepping into something else. I mean, we've got two degrees. You have a lot of experience, and you have a lot of talent. True or false? True. I believe that's true.

Yes, you do. Okay. So what have you thought about that you're just not sure of how you would get there, but you wonder about it? You let your mind wander to say, you know what? What would that be like to do this kind of work? I think you have some ideas. Give me one or two.

I think the main thing is I feel like I need to go outside of what I put my education into. And that's okay. So tell me the idea. It's possible. Yeah. Well, I love to be a stay-at-home mom. I love to do at-home tutoring. I love to, I've had the slight inclination about going into ministry.

Okay. Why? Tell me the why. Think about the people and the problem that you want to solve for those people. I want you to just tell me that type of work. If I could pay you $30 an hour today and you're doing this type of work, what is it? Don't overthink this. It's right there. You've already let it run through your head about three times while we've been talking just say it what would you do because you have to work right now so what would you do what would you really enjoy doing if you knew the money was there say it i love to write okay okay and you love to create you love to create content to help people so so what we've got to figure out here is what's the central problem that you're writing for or you might be in ministry for? There's a

pattern here. When you say ministry, when you say tutoring, when you say writing, there's a thread that connects all of those ideas. Do you believe that? I believe so, yeah. I absolutely know so. So what is it? What is that writing, the ministry, the instructing? Because at home, tutoring is a form of coaching or instructing. So there's an equipping side of you. You want to help people move from A to B. Is that still true? Am I still on the track here with you?

Yes, sir. Okay, so I won't put you on the spot anymore because I know you're live and everything, but here's what I want you to hear. There is a clear connection between those three ideas, and it's about a certain group of people. And here's the questions you've got to answer. I'm going to give you the homework assignment, and then I'm going to give you an assessment that's going to fast-forward the homework. Here's the homework.

I want you to think about those three ideas that you named, and I want you to think, who do I really want to help? Well, now, with the at-home tutoring or tutoring students, that's a pretty clear answer. Ministry, there's an answer there. And then, of course, writing. When you write something, it's to write to entertain or it's to write to inform or it's to write to equip, like the kind of writing that Ramsey personalities do. So you always look at, who are the people that I really want to help, what problem do they have or desire do they have that draws me into that group of people,

and then the solutions to that problem or desire, therein lies the ideas for the type of work, the specific job or specific career path. Does that make sense? Right, yeah. Okay, so that's your homework assignment. Here's what I know. If I continually am asking, who are the people I want to help, problem I want to solve, solution I want to provide, ideas are going to present themselves and I'm going to see things that I may not have seen before. And so what happens next is I get clear there. Now I'm looking at what do I want to do and I choose,

okay, I want to do this more than I want to do this. This is a season of life. I've got to work. When I decide that I can go home part-time and the husband and I are on the same page financially, then we can go, what's a part-time version of that same set of answers? And so that's your progression. So right now we want to get you clear on the types of jobs that you would be fulfilled in. And then we go, what do I need to do to get qualified?

All right. And in those three things, you have to specifically look into it. What do I need to do? Learn. How much is that going to cost? How long will that take? And now we can see here's a path forward and we're not so overwhelmed. Once you identify all of that, then that's going to take you all the way through the process to actually identify jobs that do those things and then go get one of those jobs and then quit. And it'll be more than $15 an hour.

No question. And, you know, you've just got to work through the process so you don't land back in something else that's frustrating and, quote, burned out and all that kind of a thing. And so, yeah, hang on. Kelly's going to pick up. We're going to give you a copy of Ken's assessment process, and it's a $30 process to take the test, but we're giving it to you. And you can take this assessment. You take it in just a few minutes, and it'll give you a real clear. The takeaways from that assessment, Ken, are really important. Yeah, what happens is you get a full report on what you do best.

We're talking about skills here. And then the type of work you love. And then what motivates you. In other words, the results that when your work produces this result at Ramsey Solutions, all of us, everybody in the building our work produces hope transformational content that people can use to practically change their life and so when you get that report then we put it in a purpose statement and what we love about the purpose statement dave is what we're hearing from people that use the assessment is that it becomes a 30 000 foot view think of in an airplane i'm looking down and i can see multiple specific jobs in those descriptions, and I look, and

I say, do they match up with my purpose statement? And that gives us confidence to say, okay, I know I can do this. Now, the assessment also even throws out some possible professions. It gives you possibilities. We hold this very loosely because it's impossible. They're not assignments. Anybody that tells you that they can predict what career you should do with an assessment is lying to you because you can't.

They can cause you to predict it. They can allow you to look. And we give you suggestions, and so it's a wonderful tool. Let's also, Kelly, give the book From Paycheck to Purpose because this is the companion, if you will. Once you know the mountaintop you want to scale, this will help guide you up the mountain. But I will tell you, Dave, there's one other suggestion here. When I hear that somebody's really burned out, there's a lot of factors going on. And if we know we don't want to stay there, but we're just looking for a bridge, you know,

you can go get a better paying job that is temporary day job, meaning I'm not invested in it, but it's going to pay me 25, 30 bucks an hour as a bridge while I'm seeking the ultimate path. Yeah. That's a suggestion. You can go do that. I probably would give 30 days a job hunt or 45 days a job hunt for the main position first. Sure. But if that doesn't work, you know, like by the end of the summer, by September, I'll

just take a $25 an hour job at Target. Yeah. Because that's stinking what they're paying you. That's right. So get your 40 hours and feed your family while you land in the big job again. That puts us out of The Ramsey Show in the books. Hey, folks. Ken Coleman here.

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