The Ramsey Show - App - Do You Have a Case of Stuff-Itus? With Guests: The Minimalists in Studio (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 26, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. I got nothing here. Okay. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. In studio today, some guys that have become good friends because we are brothers from another mother for sure. The Minimalists are with me. Brand new New York Times best-selling book, Love People Use Things.

Joshua Fields Milburn and Ryan Nicodemus are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Great. Thanks for having us. Congrats, a bestseller! Man. Does everything you two touch turn to gold? For a couple of minimalists, you generally go big.

Yeah. I mean, it's a great accolade, but, you know, obviously that's not the way we do the work. But it's, you know, we'll take it. We'll take the accolades. Hey, I like, you know, it's okay to score a touchdown in the Super Bowl. There's nothing wrong with that. 100%. Well done, guys.

And I love the title. We talked about it last time you were here. I knew it was coming. Titling a book is tough. We do it a lot around here, and you can really put a crummy title on a book fairly easily, and this one's not. It's an absolute home run because it just tells you immediately what's going on inside this book and what's going on inside your heart

love people use things to which anyone no matter how big a jerk they are would say yes yeah unfortunately that's the problem though right we have been loving things and using people we even have like a language problem in a way right like? Like I could say I love my wife, but I also love burritos, right? I love my daughter, but I also love my pickup truck. And I think we get a bit confused. Up in Canada, the Nunavut region,

they have a dialect up there. They have 53 different words to describe snow. We have one word to describe love. And so we get really confused. We get really caught up. We think the things are going to bring us purpose and joy and happiness. And Ryan and I as minimalists, we're not against things. Consumption's not a problem. The problem is consumerism, compulsory consumption, buying a bunch of things because we think that's what's going to make us happy. Of course, anyone who's tried it finds that it's a dead-end path eventually yeah we tell folks all the time the old the old

thing from the 80s was you know uh he with the most toys when he dies is dead amen you know yeah and it's okay to have some toys but if your toys have you and that's what consumerism and materialism stuff itis i call it leads to yeah your toys end up having you because you need this thing to be happy. I need to go on this trip to be happy. I'll be happy when, and if you fill in the blank with stuff on that line, you're going to be having, it's going to be a long road. Yeah. I mean, it's an easy road to go down.

I mean, we see about 5,000 advertisements a day, so that's over a million a year. So a lot of that, you in in our subconscious and makes us want things that we didn't even realize we needed, right? Because these companies, they're presenting this problem, and they're like, and guess what? We have the solution if you buy this one product. And it almost seems like a shortcut, right? The trip, the house, the car, it seems like a shortcut to fulfillment. And what Josh and I did with this book is we really went out of our way to kind of show people the real work,

like what work it does take to feel fulfilled. We wanted to write kind of a traditional relationship book. But when we started digging into it, we were like, well, wait a minute. There are so many different relationships we have in our lives. It's not just with people. We write about relationships with people in there,

but we also write about relationships with our money, our relationship with ourself, our relationship with ourself, the relationship with our truth, with creativity, and seven relationships in total. But I think what I like most about this book is you can read it and just pass it through, but there's actually some real-life actions

you can take in there to live a meaningful life. So for those that are uninitiated, which means they're probably living in a cave, talk about what minimalism is and give us the thumbnail background on this. That's really the first relationship in the book is our relationship with stuff. Because we're the minimalists, it makes sense. Really, our material possessions are a physical offices, it's probably because we have a lot of emotional clutter, mental clutter, psychological clutter, spiritual clutter, relationship clutter, career clutter.

There's all this other clutter, and it manifests outwardly through our things. And so we clutter our lives in a bunch of different ways. As a minimalist, everything I own serves a purpose or brings me joy, and everything else is out of the way. I think if you came to my house right now, you probably wouldn't walk in and say, oh my God, this guy and his family are a bunch of minimalists. They don't own anything. You just walk in and say, wow, they're pretty tidy.

And that's where minimalism starts. It starts with the stuff, but getting rid of the things also isn't what makes us happy. That's often a common misconception. People think that, well, I tried to buy all these things. It didn't make me happy. In fact, it made me miserable. It made me overwhelmed. It made me stressed.

It put me in a ton of debt as a result, right? And instead of just getting rid of the stuff and thinking that's going to make you happy, no, letting go creates the room to focus on what's truly important in life, which turns out aren't things at all. Joshua Fields, Milburn, and Ryan Nicodemus, the minimalists, are my guests this half hour. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. The new New York Times bestselling book, Love People, use things, because the opposite never works.

I love what you said about language a while ago when you were talking about we misuse the word love. And where I've run into it, too, in working with people on the money side is everyone says, I need. I need. And really, we don't have really many needs in North America. That's right. We have a whole lot of wants, but we call them needs. Yeah. I needed a new car. Yes.

No, you wanted an upgrade. Amen. And there's nothing evil about upgrading the car. No. Not in and of itself. Right. But when you're using that language, it's a heart reflector rather than a wallet reflector. That's spot on.

In fact, in the book, we have these 16 rules for living with less to help people sort of set up some boundaries for themselves. One of those rules is called the no junk rule. And it basically goes like this. Well, you know, the average American house has 300,000 items in it. We talked about that last time we were on your show. And that'd be fine if all those things were making us happier, more joyous, more free, but it's often doing the opposite. So the no-junk rule says everything you own can fit into one of three piles. It's either essential, and that's what we mean when we say I really need something, clothing, food, shelter. We all have essentials in our lives.

In fact, that word's been coming up a lot over the last year. What's an essential worker, essential business, essential travel? It's a little bit insulting that some of us weren't declared essential. Right. And unfortunately, we've gotten confused in our homes and saying everything's essential. Well, if everything's essential- Then nothing is. Amen. And so we have two other categories. We have non-essentials. Those are the things that we actually get value from. I don't truly need a couch at home. I guess I could get by without one,

but I'm a minimalist, not a deprivationist. And so there's the line. And so I want to have things that truly serve a purpose in my life. So I'm not going to deprive myself of a couch or a kitchen table or a bed. Those things are great. The problem is most of the things we own, 90 plus percent fit into that third category. It's junk. We own a lot of junk and it masquerades as though it is valuable, as though it's important, as though it's precious, even though it's junk. We own a lot of junk. And it masquerades as though it is valuable, as though it's important, as though it's precious, even though it's junk. Watch your language. It reveals your heart. Yeah. You need, you are forced to, you love a burrito.

All of it. The book is Love People Use Things. We'll be back with more of this discussion right here on The Ramsey Show. Your number one wealth building tool is your income. For business owners, this comes as no surprise. As you're used to putting in extra hours and watching your bottom line. That's why Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, is a great option for those who are faith-focused and budget-conscious.

CHM is not health insurance. Rather, it's a health cost-sharing program. It's not harder, but it is different. To learn if CHM is a fit for you or your business, visit chministries.org slash budget. Joshua Fields, Milburn, and Ron Nicodemus, the Minimalists, hanging out with us again today for a couple of segments. Brand new book, national bestseller, of course, New York Times bestseller, right out of the gate.

Love people, use things, because the opposite never works. A 20-city tour coming up. Listen real careful. These are venues that sell out. When these guys come to town to do a podcast and do a talk and a book reading and audience Q&A, people love hanging out with them, and you can tell why just listening. But these always sell out.

So listen careful. Almost every one of these cities we're broadcasting in. So San Antonio, ding, ding. Houston, Dallas, Salt Lake City, Denver, Phoenix, Orlando, Atlanta, Nashville, D.C., New York City. Almost sold out already, they told me. Came out this weekend available. Boston, Vancouver, Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Toronto, Columbus, Chicago, and Minneapolis. Only two of the 20 cities are not hearing me say that right now.

So you guys check it out. You want to go to minimalists.com slash tour to get your tickets, and it'll be a great evening. You'll come away not shamed. You will come away thoughtful about the role that stuff plays in our lives and you always do when you watch their documentaries when you read their books or when you attend their events so minimalist dot com slash tour to get your tickets now this is the second book third book it's blue not it's the fourth yeah the fourth book yes i'm sorry I should know these things. I should have prepped better.

I'm so sorry. So my prediction was going to be, I thought it was at least the second, that this was going to be your biggest one. And some of the stuff, as I was thumbing through it, and of course, you know I'm going to gravitate to the money chapter. Money is not the root of all evil. And you guys are not against wealth building. Yeah. And the fun one in there is you get the same you get everybody in our world gets a line that that everybody thinks is original and they come up to you and they always come up to me and make some lame joke about a credit card

right and they come up to you guys and go i was a minimalist once i grew up poor yeah you know and you guys hear that like every third person in a book line right right and so minimalism is not poverty and it's not an advocate you're not advocating poverty and you're not calling nice things even um evil no not at all i mean minimalism sounds like a really radical lifestyle but you know the way we look at it is it's really just a practical lifestyle. Because let's say everyone stops spending money right now. The economy would crash, right?

And then if we go to the other side of it and we spend way too much, as we saw in 2008, the economy crashes. So really, I think minimalism is that middle ground approach to spending money, to bringing things into your life. And it's not just physical possessions. Yes, we talk about that. But really, relationships, jobs, there's so many things that we don't really sit and ask why we bring these things into our lives.

And I think that's what minimalism really helps people do is get to the root of why. How might your life be better with less? How might your life be better with that job? How might your life be better with that person in your life? And yeah, so minimalism really gets to the why. I think that's a good way to say it. I'm personally experiencing a different version of your material than I ever have before right this second. And I'm starting to kind of have the theory, and you probably have already espoused this theory but i'm just observing it in myself that that um things can start out serving a purpose yeah and

after a season they need to go absolutely like we just we've we've got this big fabulous house that sharon and i built uh 12 years ago and it's it's amazing i mean and we've had charity events up there that have raised more money for ministries and for charity than the house costs so it's been a good return on investment for god okay he made money on it and so and we've got to live there too that was pretty cool you know and so but it's it's run its course yes and so we sold we sold it the other day oh wow and so we're going to be moving in a couple months which has led to cleaning out the closets right and you go in there and you go why do i have all this crap and it's kind of but these things when they started 12 years ago including the house itself yeah had a

purpose but they've lived they've outlived their season yeah and they need to go yeah it's so important you say that because minimalism is not this destination i wish we could like sit here and write out like well you're moving to a new place, Dave. Well, let's write out the 100 things that you need and the 100 things that your wife needs. And since you'll be living in wherever, here's another list of 50 things. It just doesn't work that way. Minimalism is a way to kind of help you call. It's really to help you just get clear on what adds value today, what adds value tomorrow. Because yeah, it is so important to recognize the things in my life today may not add value tomorrow and vice versa, and that's okay.

Yeah, my daughter's eight. She doesn't still play with the same toy she did when she was three, right? The average kid actually has 300 toys. They play with about 12 daily. Of course, we as adults, we're the same thing. We have our own toys, right? Now, we pretend they're important things.

But the truth is that a lot of those things, they did add value for a season, but they stopped adding value. And so, minimalism is also that process where we constantly question. We keep asking ourselves, does this serve a purpose? Does this add value to my life? And if not, we've got some rules in there that will help you sort of let go of the excess stuff because letting go is not something that you do letting go is something you stop doing you stop clinging to the excess stuff you stop clinging to the past or to toxic relationships or to the way you wish things would be dr don john deloney talks about that all the time grieve the past and move on you know this thing this

you had this thing painted in your mind the way it was supposed to be and it's not that way yeah and so let's just grieve that and take a step on that's right you know let's just move on and and deal with that so very very cool so hoarding is like the extreme opposite because it that's a that is not a it's a physical manifestation of a psychological problem yeah that is really the it's the ultimate out of control consumer materialist yeah let's talk about hoarding there's five stages of hoarding we write about it a bit in the book and the truth is we're all hoarders to some extent oh yeah i figured it out clean out my dad's gun closet for the last three weeks. I'm like, I've not even seen this in three years.

Why is it here? The minimalists are going to kill me. In the book, we took 47 different families and did Ryan's packing party experiment where they box up

everything in their house. They pretend like they're moving because as you just illuminated here, as soon as we move, it's the one time in our lives we're forced to deal

with all of those indiscretions, all of those things that we purchased, the things that we thought were going to make us happy we don't even remember so those objects of our desire they soon over a couple years they become the objects of our discontent and so when that happens it's it's just time to let go so this is a great time for you to be decluttering yeah yeah well Yeah. Well, I'm so freaking organized and OCD about everything else because I don't have clutter clutter.

But then when you dig behind the layer, you find it back there and I'm going, it's disgusting. Yeah, organizing doesn't work. Organizing is one of the problems. It's the reason I have a big problem with like the container store

and these other places. They sell us things to help us hide our clutter. We have well-organized clutter exactly and so organizing is often just well-planned hoarding i was the same way i was a well-organized hoarder so i had those 300 000 items and they were neatly stored in an ordinal system of bins and boxes and alphabetized i bet his was i bet it was, I bet it was just as OCD as I am. I bet it was the same way. Oh yeah. I remember taking trips with him to Walmart to get the bins.

Yeah. And they all got labels. He was a little machine. A little label machine. He's that guy. I love that. I would have to hire somebody. This is great. Love people use things. So this is got an element to it of just being intentional to keep things in their place,

and they're a subcategory way below relationships, which are really all that matters. Yeah, that is the truth. And that's the way you guys have laid this out. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the stuff is just the initial bite of the apple. It leads to so much more because now we have to decide what we do with our time, what we do with our attention, what we do with our money. I mean, money, we look at it as being the most important resource,

and it is an important resource, but it's really our time and attention. The only thing it's good for is what it does. Yeah, that's exactly what it's good for. Very good stuff. Thanks for coming by, guys. Hey, thanks for having us. Love these guys. The Minimalist.com slash thanks for having us. Love these guys.

The Minimalist.com slash tour for the 20-city tour. Don't miss it. Pick up the new book. You will love it. Called Love, People Use Things Because the Opposite Never Works. This is the Ramsey Show. Thank you. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, best-selling author, is my co-host the rest of this hour in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, which can only mean one thing. Matthew and Brooke are with us.

Welcome, guys. How are you? Good. Awesome. How are you doing? Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live? Indianapolis.

Well, welcome to Nashville. And all the way here to do a debt-free screen. Yes, sir. How much have you paid off? $97,362. I like it. Dangerously close to $100,000. And how long did this take you?

39 months. Okay, good. And your range of income during that three years? $50,000 up to about $120,000. Whoa! Somebody get a job? A few of them, yeah. Okay.

All right. So, I mean, because that's a sizable increase in three years. It's like you over-doubled your income. Yeah, we needed to. Yeah, we did. So, at that time, I got a new full time job and then just kind of worked my way up through some promotions. And then at the same time, we knew we needed more money.

So I started a side hustle and a handyman business. And that just really took off over about three years. Wow. And Brooke, you're a single mom, full time mom, single mom. You're a single mom because he works all the time. But now you're a single mom, full-time mom, single mom. You're a single mom because he works all the time. But no, you're a full-time mom? Yes. And then about a year ago, I started working at my kid's preschool.

Oh, that's cool. Yep. Okay. Very good. What kind of debt was the $97,000? Mostly student loan. There was about $10,000 that was vehicle and medical, but most of it probably $85,000, $80,000 was about student loan. Yep.

Yeah. What do you do for a living, man? I'm a director of operations at a medical instrument company. Okay. Very good. Good for you guys. Thank you. Very neat.

So what made you decide to do this 39 months ago? How long have y'all been married? 17 years. Okay. Good job. Good. Thank you. Yeah.

So 14. Way to go, Brooke. And so after 14 years of marriage, approximately 13 years of marriage, you look up and you went, something's got to change. What happened? So in 2009, 2010, we actually went through Financial Peace University. And at that point, we were really committed to not get further into debt. But we had a real income issue.

I was in ministry at the time, and we didn't have a lot of money coming in. And we weren't gazelle intense on that front. So we really lived within our means and Brooke was incredible with just the budget and keeping things tight at the home and all that stuff. But when we transitioned out of ministry about 2016, we knew that there was a vision God had for our lives, but that couldn't be a part of it. So that's when we got really serious and just put our money where our mouth was, so to speak. You found out you can't save your way out of debt. Exactly.

Exactly, yeah. You have to live on less than you make. It doesn't work otherwise. And you tried the other direction first. We did. Very cool. So who had that first conversation with who? Geez.

Probably you with me, I think. I think I didn't realize how stressful that looming debt was in our marriage and over my wife. And so finally I figured it out through a lot of conversation and realized that we need to do something. And so we got serious. I like how you said that. I finally figured it out. After she told you 120 times, then you finally figured it out. Then you figured it out.

I did. Excellent. Exactly. So, Brooke, what did you say? Because people call all the time they go how do i get my wife on board how do i get my husband on board how did you get your husband on board um harassing him no just um just telling him it was a concern and you know asking what what can we do and yeah because i was very stressed out about it a lot. So, yeah, just having a lot of conversations about it.

You know what I heard him say? And if I'm putting words in your mouth, you correct me. It's okay. I will. But I think I heard him say, I love my wife, and I didn't know how much she was carrying, how much weight she was carrying by herself. And once I understood that, I was ready to go. Absolutely.

That's what I heard. Thank you. And a lot of these guys and gals that are not on board, they don't know what it's doing to the other one, how much stress they're carrying. And if they ever knew, they would stop. They would, you know, oh, let's fix it then. Because I don't want my wife to be miserable.

But as long as I can continue to get away with what I'm getting away with, it's okay, though. That's right. Right. But as long as I can continue to get away with what I'm getting away with, it's okay, though. That's right. Right. Yeah, and I think the conversation was really more of a, what do we need to sacrifice to do this? And not only with spending, because like I said, we really weren't spending, living well within our means, but it was, okay, there's going to be a lot of time sacrifices and other things that we both have to be on board with. And like you said, kind of being a single mom for a while as I was working 90 hours a week,

100 hours a week sometimes, you know, to try to get this debt under control. Yeah. Was it worth it? Absolutely. Absolutely. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? $97,039 is impressive. Stay with it.

You know, I think we would listen all the time to the Ramsey show, and we were so encouraged. There were also times when you'd hear people that were, hey, we were $200,000 in debt, and six months later we paid it off, and we're just like, man, you've got to be kidding me, right? So I think, though, that that was also encouraging, too. And if they could do it, we knew we could. And having Brooke as my partner was incredible because I think there are days when I didn't want to keep going, and she did, and she didn't want to keep going and she did and she didn't want to keep going and I did. I think just being together and having that unity and that shared vision was the key. So there's a rumor that if you have

one, two, three, four kids and you try to do this and you can't give them million dollar birthday parties that they die or if they can't have the fanciest of all new everythings that they just won't make it. And I see four beautiful new family tree branches. Is that true or not true? They survived. Yeah, they live to tell about it.

Yeah. They look beautiful and seem to be breathing just fine. Exactly. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, I think, you know, for us, they live like no one else, so you can live like no one else. You know, we were doing $100 camping vacations, you vacations over the last two years and all those kind of things,

and we just got back from Colorado on our big debt-free vacation last week. So they're a little tired still from that, but it's awesome to be on the other side of that. Yeah. You see, I'll get it. You vacate like no one else later. Exactly. You can vacate like no one. Right.

Absolutely. Yeah, that was it. Yeah. I love it, man. Very cool. Good for you guys. Thank you. So proud of you. Thank you Absolutely. Yeah, that was it. Yeah. I love it, man. Very cool. Good for you guys. Thank you. So proud of you.

Thank you, man. Thank you for what you do. Well, you guys are, you're why we're here. And you just did an amazing thing. So I don't want you folks out there listening to miss this. They look so, like, together and so calm and so peaceful and all that. But this guy's been working 80, 90 hours for three years. Yeah, I'm for three years.

Yeah, I'm looking at it. While she's got four kids. Too exhausted. It's like watching a marathon or something just collapse after the finish line. They did it. We did, yeah. What they gave up in order to get freedom for the next several decades was time, effort, money. And it's hard on both of them. That's exactly right.

They paid a price here to win. There's a hustle and grind here at an exponential level because 97,003 years making this kind of money. Oh, and by the way, in the process of doing that, very intentionally on the day job and on the side job, did things to make more money. Got a bigger shovel, got more shovels very intentional here so these things do not you don't you can wander in debt you cannot wander out right and you guys you were

my point is that i want everybody to hear how intentional you were you squeezed every penny once it got home and you kept bringing more and more and more home and that get the differential that margin is what got you out of debt 97 97,039 months. It's powerful. And there's four little kids out there that are not going to carry around those bricks because of the three years y'all put in. Good for y'all, man. Yeah. All right, let's bring them up. What are their names and ages?

All right. Get them in on the screen here. So Warwick is 12. Tenley is almost 10. Paisley is almost 8. And Kendall just turned 6. All right. Well, happy birthday, Kendall. Good Kendall just turned six. All right. Well, happy birthday, Kendall.

Good stuff. Fun stuff. All right. And they've been practicing all the way from Indianapolis. So you folks, if you'll turn up your radio, turn up your podcast device right now just a little bit, you will get to hear one of the most unusual sounds you'll ever hear. You actually get to hear a family tree being changed. Yeah.

Right here, right now. Very cool stuff. All right. Matthew and Brooke, Warwick, Tinley, Paisley, and Kendall. $97,000 paid off in 39 months, making $50,000 to $120,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Ready?

Three, two, one. We're debt-free! free scream ready three two one we're dead free yeah look at those smiles that's it man that's it powerful powerful stuff you gotta have a big why and they got four beautiful ones and uh you to have a reason to sacrifice to win, to live like no one else, so that later you can live and give like no one else. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. They're walking in scriptural truth right there. I'm just looking at them, and I can't pick my eyes off them.

Their shoulders are down. They're breathing like a normal person. They probably have slept in the last few nights. my eyes off them. They just, their shoulders are down. Yeah. They're breathing like a normal person. Breathing. They probably have slept in the last few nights. So proud of them. Yeah. Way to go, you guys. It's freedom and it's peace.

Amazing family. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, again on the debt-free stage, Andrew and Ann are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Hi, Dave. Outstanding, Dave. Great to be here. Well, we're honored to have you. Where do you guys live?

We're in Exton, Pennsylvania, which is Philadelphia area. Oh, fun. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. All the way here to do a debt-free scream. How much did you pay off? Dave, we paid off our $300,000 mortgage in five and a half years. Woo!

I'm looking at weird people. Some of the weirdest. 100% debt-free. What was your range of income during that five and a half years? We made about $178,000 to $230,8 to 230 very cool what do you guys do for a living so i work in clinical research at a pharmaceutical company i write uh drug submission documents cool and i'm a stay-at-home mom okay wonderful wonderful welcome guys so good to have you and congratulations what's this house worth this market i'd say 550, somewhere in that range.

Oh, yes. Yes, sir. Woo! I love it. Have you had a month where you got paid and you didn't have to write that check? So April was the first month with no mortgage payment. Wow. What was that like?

It's pretty sweet, man. I got to tell you. After about 12, 13 years of mortgage payments, being able to set that aside is quite a victory. Wow. So what made you guys decide to go on this journey to become 100% debt-free house and everything? Yeah, Dave. So really our story starts back in 2007. We were one or two years out of college at that point. Both of us graduated with student debt and we did what everyone has to do. After you graduate, we financed brand new cars, both of us. Of course, mandatory.

Absolutely. And then in addition, in 2007, I bought our first house, put zero down, took a 401k loan out to pay the closing costs and it was 2007 my brother nick gave me the total money makeover book and read that at the beach that summer and uh that was my oh crap moment that's not a great vacation gift man yeah it's like uh runs a vacation and everything yeah you figure out everything you've been doing wrong. And so I was downloading to Ann on a daily basis. And, you know, day after day was like, this is a practical plan. We need to submit ourselves to this plan.

Yeah, and at that time I had $90,000 in student loan debt and a brand new car that I financed. And I was like drowning in debt but didn't know what to do. And so as soon as he told me about it, I was like, oh, this is what I need. And so immediately I did the budget and I just felt like a weight, a little bit of a weight had been lifted. Like the light at the end of the tunnel

was very small, but I could see it. And so it was super motivating. Way to go, you guys. Yeah. So how long have you been in this journey in total so in 2007 we started we cleared our consumer debt in 2013 we bought our current home in 2015 and paid it off in five and a half years so we've been 14 years yeah yeah wow tmml's been hanging around with you guys a long time yeah yeah way to go so with this much of a journey and over this many years how do you stay after it that long most people quit yeah um you know we just kept

our eye on the ball we wanted to be debt free we didn't want the burden of being in debt we want to be able to you know give more generously and that's a big motivator for us yeah i mean praying for contentment uh to us you know contentment is is the key to getting out of debt being satisfied and in the walk the the life that you've chosen while you know others might be buying brand new cars remodeling their homes, doing all these things that we wanted to do as well. But we prioritized getting out of debt first and foremost. And contentment can be quite difficult because what you're doing is unseen.

You can't see it versus the scene, which is American consumer society. Materialism is all in your face. Exactly. And contentment is nowhere near to be seen. Nowhere. You can't find it. It's a spiritual position. Yes, sir.

And people at your office thought you were crazy for what you drove, right? There was one New Year's Eve where someone had hit my car you know trying to drive home i assume and uh yeah so i had a little bit of a a bumper uh busted bumper for a little bit but uh no more yeah anything you want to do now yeah very cool very cool what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is uh budgeting i mean you can't get anywhere without a plan. And we've done it every month since we started. 14 years. And we'll never not do it because, you know, we tell our money where to go. It doesn't tell us where to go.

Yeah. Yeah, you've got to know your numbers. Budgeting is the key. And like we said, contentment, man. Be satisfied in your plan because it's going to pay dividends. And who would have thought 14 years ago that you look up now and you make 20 000 bucks a month and you have no payments at all in the world that's so much money yeah it's unbelievable i mean it's just yeah very very

cool so you brought the kiddos with you what are their names and ages yes sir our daughter may is eight years old and our son avid is years old, about to be five in August. So, of course, they came along during this journey. Sure did. Absolutely. Yeah, very cool. And it changes the shape of things as well. Also kind of increases the why we're doing this.

It stops being about you. It starts being about we're going to change our family tree. Totally. That's right. Totally. The why evolved over time, without a doubt. Yeah, that's very cool. Copy of The Legacy Journey for you, my latest book on what it feels like to live and leave a legacy, which you guys have definitely done.

And another copy of The Total Money Makeover for you to give away to somebody. Maybe you can ruin their beach vacation. Pay it forward for them. Yeah, very cool, you guys. We're very proud of you. You're impressive people. Thank you so much. Very well done. You've got to feel accomplished. We it forward for them. Yeah. Very cool, you guys. We're very proud of you. You're impressive people. Thank you so much. Very well done.

You've got to feel accomplished. We do. We do. Well, congratulations. I hope there's too little. It's May. I want you to recognize you are in the presence of two rock stars. And I know you call them Mommy and Daddy, but they're heroes to the rest of us.

It's awesome. Absolutely. Very good. And you too, Avid. Yeah, you too, Avid. All right. Andrew and May and Avid from the Philadelphia area. 300,000 paid off house and everything over the last five and a half years, making 178

to 230. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Game time. Ready? Three, two, one. hear a debt-free scream game time three two one how fun is that that's fun man that's so cool's amazing. That's a couple of them in a row there. We worked them into this hour because we've got some other stuff going on in the other hours today.

So we make sure both of them get, because both of them made trips here. We don't want to leave them hanging after that to do their debt-free scrims. But pretty stinking incredible. And, you know, this is just all about a decision to be intentional. And then they made it part of their life. This is 14 and a half years i've been on this rhythm now right let's do loans and while we're here let's go ahead and pay the house off and um and i love you put gas in the car you make your bed you do a budget that's part of the rhythm of your life yeah but both families here had little kids and both little kids sets are all breathing and smiling and joyful

and mom and dad were joyful and they seem to be well nourished yes everybody has all their limbs and they're all wearing shoes it's it's this perception you oh we can't do it because of this or we can't do because that it's not true now you can do anything you want to do it's right are you willing to pay the price and you know oftentimes when we're setting a goal uh it's not what we're willing to do it's what we're willing to give up that causes you to hit the goal or not hit the goal um i mean you gotta you're gonna have to you're gonna have to pay a price you're not going to pay off three hundred thousand dollars in five and a half years without giving up some things uh It goes with the territory.

But if you live like no one else later and they get $20,000 a month income now and not a payment in the world, do you understand how wealthy they're going to be? Oh, man. I mean, tens of millions of dollars just simply investing in the house payment for the next 25 years. College, which for those little ones will be about a million dollars a semester by the time they get there, it will just be annoying, right? It's going to be an annoyance.

Like, ah, that's a bummer. All right. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's not a deal breaker anymore. Guys, I'm so proud of you guys. Congratulations. Well done.

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. James Childs is our producer. Kelly Daniel is our associate producer and phone screener. Folks, you can do this stuff. We know you can do it. We've seen you and people just like you do it all the time. Be sure and check it out. RamseySolutions.com.

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