The Ramsey Show - App - Don’t Be Normal – Be Weird! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: July 12, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. This is your show. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Sacramento starts this hour off. Luca's with us.

Hi, Luca. How are you? I'm doing great. How are you doing, Mr. Ramsey? Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help? I have a curious question. So what advice would you give to an 18-year-old just graduating high school going to a debt-filled world? Okay. In what regard? Anything in particular? I mean, I'm just curious

like what you would do because like right now I'm going to community college because I live in California and it's basically free. Save some money living at home. I'm curious what would you do from there to try to knock into debt and try to get a good career from there? Certainly you want to begin with the end in mind, as Dr. Stephen Covey used to say. It's one of the seven habits of highly effective people. Where is it you want to go? What do you want to be doing when you're 30? What does that career path look like? That'll tell you what you need to study then, right?

Mm-hmm. Do you have any idea what you want to be? Yeah, I either want to go into law or politics. Okay. All right. Cool. And so if you're going into law, obviously law school is in your future. And so you've got a lot of expense in your future some way or another that you've got to figure out a way to cover.

Mm-hmm. got a lot of expense in your future some way or another that you got to figure out a way to cover and um i think that's you know we're going to require some planning for sure to get that done you got the first two years knocked out here for free and then are we going to you know go in state and get a degree in political science or whatever you're going to study in your undergrad and then you can decide if law school is there and if it is then how you're going to pull that off and how you're going to pay for that. And, again, there's very few schools that you attend that cause success. Knowledge causes success. An application of knowledge causes success. But I've never gone into a doctor's office in my life and said, hey, where'd you go to school?

I just said, can you, you know, fix my broken body, whatever's broken about it, right? I never have asked a lawyer where they went to school. And I've heard a bunch of lawyers in my life for different things, everything from estate planning all the way around the horn to different, you know, real estate stuff, all kinds of things, and used a lot of different attorneys, spent a bazillion dollars on legal fees in my life, never asked a single lawyer where they went to school. So there are places that matter if you went to Harvard, if you're going to work there, or if you went to Wharton where you're going to work there, but they're less than 1% of the jobs. 99% of the jobs, 99% of the people you're going to deal with

and you're going to interact with don't care where. Now, obviously, we don't want to do something so substandard that you get substandard knowledge base. But where you go to school needs to be the place that you can afford to go to school in almost every case. And when you start making your choices that way, now you're making wise choices about education hey thanks for the call man i appreciate you joining us you know that is the

kind of paradox right now we've got a 1.4 trillion dollar now student loan crisis and i talked to a young lady the other day from here on the air from South Carolina, and she wanted to go to Mississippi. She wanted to go to Ole Miss, which involves out-of-state tuition, which triples her cost of college. And I said, so why is it you want to go to Ole Miss? It's a pretty town. See, it's scary to me how the paradox is that the oxymoron is that we're fools about education. We're idiots when it comes to education.

Isn't that kind of oxymoronic? It would seem like you ought to be like smart about education. And in this case, it's really wise is what it amounts to. And so what's happened is that so many people have been completely overwhelmed with their student loan debt that now there's this whole movement out there that says oh no education is worth it it's not worth it don't go to college it's ridiculous to go to college college is ridiculous you shouldn't go to college and that's an overreaction that's just as dumb as go anywhere you want because it's all going to work out okay both of those are dumb hey listen i i believe in education i i i know stuff that i

wouldn't have known if i didn't go to class hello you know and that makes my life move along at a better pace um i can actually look in an accounting spreadsheet and i know what it means because I had, you know, eight quarters of accounting and getting my finance degree. So I actually have a knowledge base that allows me to run a $200 million business. I couldn't do that with a high school diploma. I could do it, but it would be a lot more of a strain because I wouldn't know how. And knowing how to do stuff is what knowledge is, you know? And so that's what you guys want to look for. And, Luca, I appreciate the question a lot. But moms and dads, when you've got a Luca in your life that's asking these questions,

and obviously he's had some good coaching because he's already going, I'm going to California Community College. It's free. I'm going first two years there, and then I'll get my basics out of the way. That'll all transfer. And no one asks you, even if they do ask you where you graduated from school, they didn't ask you where you went first. they do ask you where you graduated from school they didn't ask you where you went first they just ask you where you graduated from and that's the three

people in your life that'll ever ask you reason the only time somebody asked you where you went to school is they want to know what football team you root for i mean that's the only reason they care where you went to school where'd you go to school oh you're a vol huh yeah go vols you know so where my little orange tea around right and people go you know but they don't go like oh wow that was academically imperiling you know it's not you were not in peril at ut uh with your academics it was but it's solid i mean solid education obviously and so folks really do take the time to think about education. There's only one time you can look at education as just generally life-enhancing,

and that's if you have an unbelievably luxurious budget. And you can just go study for the sake of study. Oh, that's neat. And it just, you know, it broadened my horizons. And that's true. But you really have to, in our world today, look at it from a utilitarian standpoint, which does bring some of you into

trade school, and there's no shame in that at all. I mean, a good aircraft mechanic, a good diesel mechanic, make $100,000. And a whole bunch of you with a master's degree in sociology making $28,000. Okay? So, I mean, think about what you're doing here

trade school there is no shame in that game whatsoever none at all but think about what it is you're gonna get for what you pay and is this in your budget am i getting quality for what i'm paying when you go out of state you are not paying for an increased value. You're paying for geography, which when it comes to education would be known as stupid. Unless you have that extra money and you just want to take you a little adventure to Mississippi. You know, if you want to take a little adventure to Mississippi because the town's pretty, just make sure you have the money. Don't make yourself the 30-year-old version of you.

Hate the 20-year-old version of you. Because when you're 30 and you're still paying those student loan debts, you're going, those houses in Mississippi are not that pretty. That's what you'll be thinking then. It changes everything. Moms and dads, teach your kids. Be sure you're parenting 18-year-olds. They still need parents when they're 18.

They still need somebody to love them and say, no, that's dumb. That's dumb. Don't be dumb. Really. When it comes to education, don't be dumb. Kind of oxymoronic if you think it through. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options?

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over 35 years, and our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos every month, you will save even more. Use the promo code RAMSY to get the best possible deal. Today's question is from Monica in Minnesota. I have $45,000 in debt plus an additional $3,000 in medical debt. I've been using my HSA to pay off the medical debt.

I've already stopped contributing to my 401k, but should I stop contributions to the HSA as well and just cash flow that debt? I would pour as much through the HSA as you can and pay it directly on the medical debt until it's cleared, and then I would stop my HSA contributions. Every $1,000 that you put into the HSA is pre-tax. So if you take $1,000 of your income and bring it home, it looks suspiciously like $700. And so if you run the $1,000 into the HSA and then pay $1,000 of your medical debt, in a sense, the government has paid $300 of your debt, and you paid $700 because it's tax-free

because you ran it through there. So it saves you about 30 cents on every dollar. So, yes, I would run, you know, until I get the medical debt done, I would run that HSA up and then run it right back out onto that medical debt as soon as you run it in there. But pay it through that, run it through that. And because it saves you by being pre-tax contribution into that and then a tax-free use of that is to pay medical bills chris is in utah hi chris welcome to the dave ramsey show hey dave it's uh it's an honor to speak with you you too how you doing better than i deserve sir

what's up good so here's where i'm at dave i'm a recent listener, and I can't tell you, man, I am amped up. I'm charged up. I'm a truck driver, so I listen to Audible. I've downloaded Financial Peace Revisited, Total Money Makeover. I've talked to my wife. I'm using the Every Dollar Budget app this month, and it's phenomenal. And I'm just pumped up. So I'm just trying to get her as on board as i am maybe and

i'm just thinking i'd ask you um any suggestions with your past listeners i thought about it to you but i don't know how available it is out here in utah on saturdays and sunday those are the days i'm home so maybe just some suggestions to kind of get her pumped up with me okay well the mistake most guys make when they get amped up about this is they start talking about what we're going to do. And she doesn't care what we're going to do until she knows why we're going to do it. So don't talk about the what, talk about the why. If we didn't have any payments, what could we do? We could build wealth. If we didn't have any payments, what could we do?

We could fund the kids' college fund. If we didn't have any payments, what could we do? We could fund the kids' college fund. If we didn't have any payments, we could travel. If we didn't have any payments, we could be more generous. If we didn't have any payments, what is the thing that lights her up that you could do if you weren't broke? And that's the thing. And so that's your why. You need to dream with her and come up with your why and go, okay,

now then what's the best way to not be broke? Get rid of the debt. Now we have a reason. That's your why. You need to dream with her and come up with your why and go, okay, now, then what's the best way to not be broke? Get rid of the debt. Now we have a reason. There you go. If it lights her up and she says, you know, I really am scared that we're not going to be able to send our kids to college, and you go, well, that's right.

I think you're right. I don't think we're going to be able to send our kids to college unless we get out of debt. But, you know, if we didn't have any payments, we could send the kids to college, couldn't we? Yeah, well, then let's get rid of these debts. Let's work together. Because now you've got the why in front of the what. Because a lot of guys just get excited and call her up and go, hey, honey, I'm selling your car. Which, of course, goes over like not at all, right? You know?

Yeah. And so we're desperately bad, most guys, me included, about talking about the what rather than the why. If you get the why right, everybody else will follow along. That's true when you're leading inside your organization. If you're a leader and you're listening to me out there running a business or running a nonprofit or whatever, it's true when you're in a household. You've got to get the why before you do the what. And when you get that in the right order, you'll be fine.

And that's what's happened to you, by the way. You started to believe that this was possible, and that's what amped you up. And before, you didn't believe it was possible. And so we have to talk about a it is possible and here's why we're going to do that that's what i would do and yeah i would check into financial peace university i'll put you on hold we'll pay for you to go uh you know to get into financial peace we'll pay for your first year and get you set up it's a membership and you go to the class nine times you go nine lessons one one hour lessons with a local group. And yes,

there'll be some in Utah. They're all over the place. There's about 14,000 groups operating right now. And so they're fairly easy to get into. And it's all online as well. And so with you being on the road, if she goes to a class on Wednesday night, you could watch the same class online after you park the truck in the evening and turn around and email or talk back and forth on the phone about it. And, you know, it'd be as if you were there, in other words. And so getting that together, getting on the everyday, every dollar budget was a great move too, by the way. That was a good direction.

So the online works for, you know, people that travel a lot and for the military and that kind of stuff. I've got a lot of military folks. One of them is in the sandbox and the other one is back home, and they're taking the class together because they're doing it all online. You have a one-year access to that with what I'm going to give you, and a one-year access to EveryDollarPlus. We'll upgrade your EveryDollar to have the bank connectivity too.

I'm going to give you all that. That comes with your Financial Peace University membership now. And join a local group if you can, or at least have her do that at a minimum. But it would be best if you went with her. That's the best thing. If you physically can sit in the group together and take the lessons together, that's the best way to do it. So hold on.

I'll have Kelly pick up, and we'll get you signed up for a year membership for Financial Peace University. Stephanie is in Pittsburgh. Hi, Stephanie. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure.

I am questioning. I am on Baby Step number two. I have a lot of six figures. And I'm in the middle of a year. I know that's a struggle, but that's the challenge. Do I wait 10 years or not? No. Okay, because that was my next question.

What should I do while I'm waiting for 10 years? Because I have $40,000 in the beneficiary IRA. I have about $9,500 in my bank account. So I've been saving money because of the EveryDollar app. I've been putting money away. What do you mean beneficiary? What do you mean beneficiary IRA? An inherited IRA?

Yes. Yes. They call it. Yes. That's what they do. And so I have that money. Okay. It's taxable, so I would pay the taxes on that and write your student loans immediately.

What do you owe on your student loans? I owe about $185,000. To be a teacher? Yes, yes. Yes. And it's because I didn't it's my fault i didn't work well i worked but i didn't work full time and so some of the money was used for spending like rent and just daily living costs okay all right so you didn't work extra while you were in school, so guess what that means?

Now you get to work extra. Yes. I do have a second job now. I do. I have three jobs, so yeah. Good. What is your household income with your three jobs? My household income is about $60,000.

What do you teach? I am a special ed teacher. Okay. I would recommend you open up a side business in the special ed community, offering your services to parents who are of means, who have special needs kids to have you around, and they will pay you very well by the hour, better than any Mickey Mouse part-time job you would get. And let's try to double your income.

Okay. Because you have a deep hole and a medium to small shovel right now. Yes. You're not afraid of hard work. I heard that. I'm proud of you. But you need some money. $185,000 in student loan debt, you need to make $100,000 a year.

And if you're single and you do $50,000 a year, then it's going to take you four years to get out. Wow. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Dave and Kim are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Great, how are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome.

Where do you guys live? We live in Troy, Illinois. It's just east of St. Louis, north of Scott Air Force Base. Absolutely. Cool. Well, welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. And your T-shirts say, I'm with Dave and me too.

Got it. I'm Dave. So when we take our picture later, we have to set it up properly. Oh, I have to stand to that side because you're Dave. I'm Dave. So when we take our picture later, we have to set it up properly. Oh, I have to stand to that side. Because you're Dave and I'm Dave. I'm catching on. There you go. It's a little slow, but he's coming along.

And she wasn't always with you. You were a four-letter word at one point. This is true. I can understand. That's happened before. Oh, so how much debt have you two paid off? We paid $137. Okay, and how long did this take?

It took us three and a half years. Okay, and your range of income during that time? $143 to $160. Okay, what do you guys do for a living? So I retired from the Air Force, and then for the last 10 years, I've been a defense contractor. Essentially, I bounce between a functional analyst and a research engineer. I work at U.S. Transportation Command. We watch all the movement of the military folks and their gear moving around the world.

Cool. And what do you do? I'm a third-grade teacher. Well, I'll be a sixth-grade teacher next year. All right. Very neat. Very neat. Well, thank you for your service.

Thank you, sir. Appreciate that. What was the $137,000 in debt? Well, it was a car that we actually sold, and then the rest of it was our house. Oh, you paid off your house? We sure did. Looking at weird people. Yes, sir.

Okay, three and a half years ago, Dave starts trouble and comes in and turns my name and his name into a four-letter word. Tell me about this story. What happened? Well, I'll let him tell the first part, and then we'll go from there. So I used to, well, so Janet Gerton was an office maid of mine, and she would listen to your podcast every single day, and she would bump me and kick me and say, oh, you've got to listen to this, you've got to listen to this.

So that was probably somewhere in November of 2014. And I started listening to you at that point. So January of 2015, we really kind of started, I really kind of brought this and showed her we had started a budget in maybe December, we started our budget. And we kind of got her on board, but we, it was a little bit of trouble, but we did FPU in March of 2015. And during FPU, I think she really maybe came on board a little bit when we cut up. We actually shredded our credit cards. Oh, okay. And there's a jar of them.

And they've been on my desk at home for three and a half years. Never to be used again. And really, we didn't use them too often, really for more online purchases, which we didn't do that often. But we said, well, if we're going to do this, just let's make it happen. Game on. Okay. So, Kim, you were resistant at first and later came around. Tell me about that part of it.

Well, the biggest reason was because I'm the saver in the family and have been. And when we first started dating, we've been married for 32 years, but I was 17 when we first started dating and he had a motorcycle and I said, you need to pay this off. And he was behind on payments. And so at 17, I was the person already doing all of the, you know, all that stuff. And, you know, over the years, I was the person who paid the bills, and I did all that. And we had a $50 limit. You couldn't spend more than $50 without asking the other person or talking to the other person about it,

unless it was groceries or something along those lines. But he was more the person that I had to drag him along. And so I was doing these things. I wasn't Dave Ramsey. I didn't have a booksey i didn't have a book i didn't have a program but so it was a little bit offensive there's a little bit offensive that he comes in after 30 years and you know what a genius it nailed it on the head because and i don't think he understood that and it's taken him a while i've always been on board with your plan

with the ideas behind it obviously i did not have the full-out plan but i've always been on board with your plan with the ideas behind it obviously i did not have the full-out plan but i've always been on board with that it's just the fact that it took him took him to be dave ramsey yeah and he's got to be a jerk yeah oh my gosh it was frustrating love it and i don't so how did what what what got what allowed you to get past that i mean you're going through the class now. You kind of got a little growling while you're doing it, right? But you get into the class, Financial Peace University, and you're going to the group and watching the lessons and all that. At what point did you kind of go, okay, I'm going to let it go?

I still haven't. So it's just gotten a little easier over the years. And truth be told. That's awesome. So just so you know, all my family knows. So if I was to say something different now, that would be a problem. So like even your emails, advertisements, you know, he was all on board. Once he finds something, he really gloms onto it and he goes full board all the time.

Yeah. And he's a planner and he wants to have all of those things done. I am more like kind of, I think you say free spirited in that regard. I do like a plan, but I can deviate from that plan and be okay with it. He cannot. No. And so he had, you know, you said have your. It comes from what he's done for a living. Well, you know. So all the meetings, which I think that's where I kind of fought him the most,

was we have to have another meeting about this. Or budget meetings. Another meeting, always, always. And that was the hardest part for me because, again, not a planner. Let's just let this happen. Don't need a meeting. Don't need a plan. Right. And so, yeah, I know what I'm going to planner. Let's just let this happen. Don't need a meeting. Don't need a plan. Right.

And so, yeah, I know what I'm going to do. What's the problem? But I will say, like, what is it? What's the program you use? Well, I just use an Excel spreadsheet. I mean, I'm a nerd. I think we started just either a little before or just after every dollar. And so I had already had a spreadsheet, and my spreadsheet's got functions,

and it's all automated in a lot of ways. And I think that that's really great. I'm not that person, but to see that when he comes in, well, I'm going to change this, and I'll change this, and then watch this add or subtract or whatever. And so that really, I mean, that's really nice. So, yeah, so in the end, you know, I'm obviously on board. I mean, that's not a problem.

Obviously, your house is paid off and you're standing here with a shirt that says, I'm with Dave. So, yeah, you're definitely on board. And can I just say one thing? So, you know, as we have listened over the years to you and to like Susie Ormans and, you know, the other gurus of the world. We would listen to people say they're paying this or they have this much money or whatever. And so when you started out,

you asked us how much money we're making now. And that wasn't always how it was. And I just want people to know that no matter where they start, they can move it forward. Maybe not to this point, but certainly move it forward no matter what. And when we started, we were making, I was a stay-at-home mom, and in the military he was making probably slightly over $20,000.

So we literally knew where every penny was. There was nothing that we didn't know about. And that's why we had the times when we said, okay, you can't spend more than $50. So it was just in that sense that I want people to understand that even then you can build it. Our younger selves would never have seen us in the kind of house we have. Not that we have a mansion or anything, but we would have never seen it. And we're hard workers, and we fixed our our houses up and we had nice houses in the

end. But it was never like the rich house. But our younger selves, if we saw ourselves now, we really would. And so I will definitely give kudos to David because he's definitely the one that pushed it

to get to this point. How does it feel now that everything's paid for? It feels wonderful. It really does. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Well, so I need a checklist. I mean, that's how I was raised in the military is that I need a checklist. So I need a plan.

I need to see instructions. You know, when I open a box of something, I look for instructions. I read the instructions. You're that guy. I am. And so the one thing that all this time she didn't really have was she, I mean, she had it all. She knew she had the principles, but she didn't have the step by step. She did. But when I started listening to you and looking at this, looking at the baby steps, there's, there's what I needed. I needed that checklist and that plan

included the budget. I mean, that, that, that all of that is part of the plan. Great job, you guys. Thank you. Proud of you. So we rapidly went through Baby Steps 2 through into 6 after we sold our vehicle. I've got to move you to the screen so you don't run out of time. I'm sorry. Great job. I'm proud of you all. $137,000 paid off in three and a half years, making $143,000 to $160,000 160. Housing everything after 32 years of marriage. Proud of you guys. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Well done! Our Scripture of the Day, Romans 8.31 What then shall we say to these things? Our Scripture of the Day, Romans 8.31. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? Bill Bradley said,

Ambition is the path to success. Persistence is the vehicle you arrive in. Kevin is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Kevin. How are you? Hi, Mr. Ramsey. How are you doing, sir? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hi.

My wife and I are on baby step two and kind of wondering if I should sell my truck to help give us a push. Okay. Two guidelines I use on that. One is you should not own things with wheels and motors totaled up that equal more than half your annual income? And two, can you be debt-free not counting your house inside of two years? So if you don't sell the truck or you do sell the truck, how much do you owe on the truck? $14,000, just under $14,000. Gotcha.

What's it worth? I could probably get about $24,000 for it. Okay. And what's her car worth? Her car is worth about $20,000, and we owe just under $20,000 on it. So that's basically a wash. Gotcha. Okay.

And so you have $44,000 worth of vehicles, right? Yes, sir. You have a boat, a motorcycle, a four-wheeler? No, sir. Expensive lawnmower? No, sir. Okay. What's your household income uh right now we're making uh in between 95 and 100 uh before overtime okay we're not getting much over time but okay so

let's just say let's say we got a hundred thousand dollar household income then using my rule of thumb you don't want over fifty thousand dollars worth of vehicles right because you have too much invested in things going down in value at that point. So you're under that. You're at $44,000. You're not under it a lot, but you're under it. How much other debt other than your home do you have? Well, we just started your program about a month and a half, two months ago.

We were at $90,000, and now we're down to about $83,000. $83,000, and you make a hundred um okay can you or will you do what it takes to be debt free making a hundred which is paying off 41 000 a year for two years uh that's the plan sir. If you can do that and you love the truck, then keep it. I do. Then keep it. Okay. Uh, but you're, you know, you're basically, you could speed it up by about six months

if you sell either one of these vehicles. Okay. That, you know, that's what we're saying. Yes, sir. Um, but that's up to you. Are you willing to go through six more months of beans and rice? Rice and beans, no vacations, not seeing this out of a restaurant unless you're working there and all that kind of stuff. Scorched earth on the lifestyle, right?

Because that's the only way you pull this off. $41,000 a year making $100,000 after taxes. You're living on nothing. Yeah. That's tough. It's doable. I've seen people do it. But, dude, you're going to the pretty extreme here.

Okay. And that's okay. I think you can make it. And if you like the truck and you're willing to pay that price to keep it, I probably would. Okay. Because, you know, otherwise, here's what's going to happen. If you sell the truck, you're going to end up buying another one in a year and a half anyway and paying cash for it.

Yeah. A year and a half after you get out of debt, I mean. So, really, there's not a lot of swing here in what's going on because you like this truck. But that's the guideline. Overall, for the rest of your life, paying cash or not, of course, paying cash is the only thing we would tell you to do, never have a total of more than half your annual income tied up in things that are going down in value. That's what you want to get after there.

So good job, man. Robin's in Los Angeles. Hey, Robin, how are you? Oh, good, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Well, I sold a large house and bought a smaller house.

And in the course of doing that, I talked to my CPA and also my financial planner about the best way to handle the dollars that were coming in from the larger house. And they said, well, you're obviously going to have enough to pay off the smaller house if that's what you want to do. But because you're getting a good return on your invested portfolio, maybe what you should do is put the money in the portfolio, continue to service the mortgage, and have a few percent left over after that. I mean, they both thought that was a good idea.

It sounds good on paper, but I want to do it then. But something's bothering you about it. Well, I just want to do a thing. Okay. I mean, we have the money, and we have more money than, you know, to pay off the mortgage. That's not a problem. So let me ask you this. If the house was paid for, and you met with your financial planner,

and he said, I want you to go get a mortgage so that you can invest more with me, so you can make the spread. Would you do that? No. What's the difference? Hello? Hi. What's the difference?

What's the difference? I guess there is no difference. There's not. And so you would pay off this mortgage today. You know why? Because when I ask you that in reverse, rather than the way you're asking me about it, in other words, we're asking if the house is paid off, would you go borrow on it, or should you pay it off?

It's the same math exactly, but when I ask it in reverse, it causes you to think not only with your mind where you do math, but with your heart where you do risk. Your financial planner and your CPA are using a naive, primitive financial formula that is inaccurate because it leaves out risk. Okay. And you and I, having common sense, know that their mortgages, even though it's a small mortgage, has a certain amount of risk associated with it,

and they have not mathematically adjusted for that risk. And so I'm of the opinion that the borrower is slave to the lender 100% of the time, not part of the time. And I've done detailed research here at Ramsey Solutions, and we found that 100% of the foreclosures occur on a home with a mortgage. There's risk associated with this. And so I don't borrow money to invest. And not paying off debt in order to keep investments is exactly the same equation.

So I disagree passionately with the primitive, naive, horrible financial formula that your financial planner and CPA are using. I would pay off this mortgage in 20 seconds. Hope that helps, because I don't want to be unclear. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. That's how we roll here, people. We're going to tell you the truth, and it's always weird. Let me just tell you what normal is. 70% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.

The number one cause of divorce in North America today is money fights and money problems. The typical student goes to school and comes out with $30,000 to $100,000 in student loan debt. Most of you are walking around with an average of $10,000 to $25,000 in credit card debt, and you have car payments, and you think car payments are a way of life. You'll never have a car without a car payment.

And you live your life, and you work your whole life, and you have millions of dollars of income come into your house throughout your working life and flow back out. And you have nothing to show for it. Your entire broke. Financially, you're a freaking rat in a wheel. Normal? Normal is broke. Looking good.

Impressing people at the stoplight. And all your broke friends think you're okay because you're just as normal as they are. But you don't want to be normal. It's unusual to be wealthy. Behaviors, decisions, and habits, and character traits cause you to build wealth. And if wealth is unusual, then unusual behaviors, habits, and character traits are necessary for you to become wealthy. You can be normal.

Normal is pretty easy. And you can look like you're having a good life, but you'll be stressed and you have no money. I mean, it's ridiculous, you guys. The amount of money you make in your working lifetime, and you get to retirement and say, I sure hope the government, which is well known for its ability to handle money, will take care of me. That's just straight up stupid.

Whatever everyone else is doing with money, you need to run the other way. Get out of debt, house and everything. Quit borrowing money. Start investing steadily, constantly, consistently. Cut up your credit cards completely, all of them. Stuff's not hard, you guys. This is how it's done. Be weird.

That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to The Dave Ramsey Show on Pandora and Spotify? For all the ways to watch and listen, check out our show page at DaveRamsey.com slash show.