The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Be Sloppy With Your Generosity (Hour 3)

Episode Date: May 27, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. My co-host this day on the Dave Ramsey Show is Rachel Cruz. Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author several times over. Our latest number one, love your life, not theirs. Seven money habits for living the life you want. Also check out her 14-day money finder at rachelcruz.com.

The average person doing this is finding an extra $2,000 a year by doing this 14-day exercise. Welcome back. Yes, thanks for having me. The phone number, 888-825-5225. Noah is in Nevada. Hi, Noah. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Good afternoon, Dave and Rachel. How are you guys? Great. How can we help?

So I just recently finished, I guess I would say, like my biggest debt. It's my first car I ever purchased. Currently 22 years old. Paid it off early because I started to create a budget and I started to actually attack it, you know, with the debt snowball as I've come to be familiar with. Good for you. Thank you. for you um i was i was thank you i was trying to see now that my 300 and 300 car payment is out of the question where should i put that now do you have any more debt noah or is that just it um currently no i used to have um an outstanding medical bill when i was maybe four or three

years younger than what i am now i'm 22 now um And it's no longer on my credit, so I don't know if it's like a charge-off or what it is, but on my reports, it no longer shows. Okay, so you have no other debt. No, you still owe that, buddy. You need to get in touch with them and try to clear it up. How much was it? I think around $1,200. Okay, just because if they've charged it off, it just means they gave up on you.

It doesn't mean you no longer owe it. Wait, no, I thought you said you paid it, and now it's off the thing. Is it you didn't pay it? No, you said you didn't pay it. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Is that right? You did not pay it, right?

Correct. I did not. Okay. And so just because it doesn't show on your credit bureau or just because they gave up on you doesn't mean they can't come after you later, and they won't mess up your credit bureau or just because they gave up on you doesn't mean they can't come after you later and they won't mess up your credit bureau uh report later and so i'd get in touch with them and get that get that paid first and then once you've done that then the next step rachel would be the emergency fund yeah that's right then just put that that three hundred dollars that you will now be paying for the medical debt uh to that fully funded emergency

fund and are you single noah i am and that emergency fund. And are you single, Noah? I am. And that emergency fund that you mentioned, is that for the three to six months of income? Or is that for the $1,000? Because I already have the $1,000 made with a little bit more on top of it. Yeah, absolutely. So that'll be, so once you're out of debt, then you bump up that $1,000 emergency fund to three to six months of expenses.

And how much do you make a year? Around $30,000 before taxes. Okay. So yeah, then I would say for sure, look at your budget. Obviously, you've been budgeting. You said that and just figure out, okay, what would happen if my income completely stopped? How could I still live going, you know, three to six months, whatever you're comfortable with, and save that amount and then continue on to investing for retirement. Yep. Baby step four will be next. So, hey, man, you got a great start at 22. It's really good.

You've done a really good job. Congratulations. Miguel is with us in Pennsylvania. Hi, Miguel. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, thanks for having me, Dave. Sure. What's up?

So me and my fiance are currently on baby step number two. We have an emergency fund set up, and we're getting ready to knock out about $80,000 worth of debt between the two of us. After a year of living basically like everybody else, just broke, now we have an emergency fund, and we're getting started to knock down our debt. So my question is— You have your $1,000 emergency fund?

It's about $2,000 right now. Gotcha. Okay. And so my question is, after—I have a car that's about to get paid off, and right after that gets paid off, I want to start putting money away. Instead of putting six months away or going towards other debt, I want to save up for a wedding. So I wanted to get your opinion on whether it's a good thing to do. Our current wedding budget is about $5,000. Okay. And you have $80,000 in debt, and you want to pause the baby steps

and save $5,000 for a wedding. Yeah, basically. Yeah. Okay. And your income is what? My income is $40,000 before taxes, and hers is about $26,000 before taxes. Okay. Are you both saving to the wedding or just you?

Both of us. Okay. So how quickly will the two of you you working together for this one particular goal, you don't pay each other's bills until you're married, but for this one particular goal that is a joint goal, how quickly are the two of you working together will you have the $5,000? If the COVID stuff is done by about September, then it would take about two months.

And so are you guys furloughed right now? What's the COVID comment? Is it because you guys can't work right now because of everything going on? Well, not so much our work. We're both essential workers. Sort of my side gig is is uh is uber so if i were doing a side gig that would be an extra three or four hundred dollars a week that i'd be able to to put towards a wedding um okay and okay you guys so far your budget sucks all right you got sixty six thousand dollars coming in not counting uber between the two of you. You only need $5,000. That does not take until November. You guys need to quit eating.

Well, you're not eating out. You're sitting at home. You shouldn't be doing anything, right? You're in freaking Pennsylvania, right? You're an essential worker, but you're still working other than, I mean, you're working, but the restaurants aren't open, right? Right. Okay. So you're not eating out.

So you guys need to do a written, detailed budget. Get on everydollar.com or jump at DaveRamsey.com slash hope and get the 14-day to Financial Peace University free trial, and that'll get you into EveryDollarPlus. And you've got to sit down and do a detailed budget, each one of you as two singles, and say, how much can we put to this if we don't do anything else? Pretend like the house is on fire and you need $5,000 to put the fire out. How fast can we do that? Don't do anything else. Complete focus. Don't do, don't spend money on anything except food, lights, and rent. That's it.

And get the $5,000 and then push play and then let's work the baby steps. So, yeah, you need to go to DaveRamsey.com and get into Financial Peace University, the 14-day free trial, because it will show you exactly how to do this and it will be a great pre-marriage thing for the two of you to do together. Yeah, and learning to work on the same page before walking down the aisle, that's an advantage not a lot of people have. Yeah, but you ought to be able to get the $5,000 together a lot faster than you're thinking, and the way you're answering the question, dude, tells me you have not done your budget

and you have not tightened down the budget, meaning you've still got fluff, all kinds of fluff in this. And that's from not having written it out in detail on the EveryDollar app and not cut it to the bone so that you can do this wedding. Let's get this done. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, folks. Father's Day is just around the corner. If you're looking for the perfect, unique gift to give dad, I've got it. Grip 6 belts. If dad's like like me he's not a fan of traditional

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May is Ramsey Cash Giveaway Month. We're giving away $500 every week to three lucky winners this May. This will be the last week of that. Plus a grand prize of $3,000 here at the end of the month. You can enter daily to increase your chances of winning, and of course, no purchase necessary. Just go to DaveRamsey.com slash giveaway, and you can enter right now. Last week here, so you need to hurry up and make sure you get entered,

and enter a bunch as often as once a day. Chris is with us in New Jersey. Hey, Chris, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, Rachel. Thanks for taking my call. I hope all is well by you. It is.

How can we help? So I started listening to you for a few months and I got the everyday app and I'm just starting to use it. I'm on baby step two and I'm kind of doing this without discussing it with my husband. And I'm trying to figure out a way to bring up the discussion with him on this. How long have you guys been married, Chris? 27 years. How was money stuff before you found the show and Every Dollar and Everything for the past 26 years? How's money been? We pretty much struggle.

I am the only one that makes consistent money. My husband has a company, and most of the profit and everything goes to the company. He doesn't bring any money home from his company? He keeps it in the company for the most part, and then when I need assistance, he'll pitch in. So his company doesn't make a profit?

Not very much. For how long? 13 years. He's not made a profit for 13 years? He makes a profit, but very little, like $ little like 5 000 a year profit it's not a lot why does he keep doing that because he wants to what do you make um i mean i make 54 but i probably take home about $3,000 a month. Okay.

I mean, I'm a little bit confused, okay? I don't understand why either one of you think it's okay to make $5,000 a year income and work full-time to do it in perpetuation. I mean, he's paying all the bills for business. Paying all the bills for what? For the business. I know, I know. He runs a business and he makes $5,000 profit, you said. Is that correct?

Yeah. And that's all he's made every year for 13 years. I mean, if you did that for a year... I wouldn't say every year. I mean, it's luxury. It's luxury. But it's not a lot, Chris. I mean, you're not saying, like, he's not bringing home wouldn't say every year. I mean, it's luxury. It's luxury. But it's not a lot, Chris. I mean, you're not saying, like, he's not bringing home $100,000 or something.

Yeah, it's. No, no, not at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's low. I mean, he could get a job and make 20 times more, couldn't he? If he'd be willing to do that. I don't understand why someone would be willing to work for $5,000 a year. He's not making a dollar an hour.

Yeah, he's doing what he wants. I'm what I want to do, and I make a dollar an hour? I mean, he's probably, you know, profited. Well, you don't have to backtrack, Chris. I mean, like, yeah, I think it's just, I that the the point that he's been doing this for so long not making a profit and you guys are not on the same page so to kind of get to a little bit of the heart of what you're talking about is you guys have been on two separate lanes for a long time when it comes to money it doesn't sound like a very team effort um it's kind of more his thing my thing and a lot of couples function like that

I put out uh just a post on Instagram last week about having joint bank accounts and you would have thought i ran over someone's puppy like people hated the fact that i mentioned having joint checking accounts so like it's not like it like you're you're functioning in a semi-normal environment but what we say around here is that normal's broke. Normal's not good. We want to be weird. And so I think the thing here with you guys is that there's more of a marriage issue than necessarily a money issue. The repercussions of the avoidance of conflict and things within your marriage are now the money topic has risen to the top as the filter of all that coming out. So I think you guys working

on the same team, um, and marriage overall is going to be really important. And as his wife, I mean, I would, and again, I don't, I haven't been in the marriage for 26 years, but I can tell you like laying it all out is very vulnerable for you because all the responsibility has been on you. And a lot of women feel that way. They're kind of like the CEO of the household is what were the CFO of the household. A lot of women pay the bills. They do it all. In her case, she pays it all. And your money is paying for most of it, right?

No, I'm paying for everything. Yeah. I mean, you make 10 times more than he makes. Right? Yeah, she does. Right, Chris? Yes. Yeah, okay.

So you're carrying the household by yourself. And that's a very lonely place, Chris. And so, I mean, do you feel that? Do you just feel this burden, like you're exhausted? I do, but, I mean, this is our life. That's how it's been, right. You know. Well, let me tell you this.

After two decades of doing this, we've, we've found that it's really, really hard to win financially if you're not both on the same team. And so getting it to that place, like ground zero there for you all is going to be really, really important. And I think coming open and honestly about what you're wanting to do,

how you're feeling, and it's going to probably have some tension. It's going to have some conflict, but getting it out and communicating it is going to be that first step. And it is going to be very vulnerable, very scary because you guys obviously have not been functioning like that. But man, the quicker that bandaid can get ripped off and you guys start working together and him know what you're feeling, your values, what you're wanting, your fears. I mean, all of it, all ties into that money conversation. Chris, if you hear aggravation in my voice, it's not towards you.

It's towards him. I'm just going to tell you what I think because you called the show, okay? I think you avoid conflict at unbelievable costs. That the king of the world sitting over there making $5,000 a year has totally got you buffaloed, and you're afraid to say anything for some reason or another because he's a butthole or something like that. I don't know what's going on. But how a guy makes $5,000 a year for 13 years

and convinces his wife that that's okay is beyond me. That's just strange, honey. And so I'm going to bust up in his stuff right here on your behalf because you can't seem to do it. So he's way out of line. He's way out of line. He's not providing for his family and all in the name of he's happy you know well of course he's happy he makes no money and his wife takes care of him he's got no problems so you guys got some avoidance issues in this relationship that

are off the charts and so i'm not fussing at you, darling. Uncle Dave's ticked at your husband right now because he's not taking good care of you and has got you in an emotional environment where you're having to take up for him on the show, and that's just not healthy. This is a screwed up mess right here. And so I'm going to encourage you desperately to get with a good pastor, a good marriage counselor, and the two of you start working through this. Because everything you told me and the way you described it was all completely unhealthy. It's not good.

It's working for you because you're not rocking the boat. But, darling, this boat needs to be rocked. Now, maybe you don't like that. Maybe you don't want to do it. You don't have to do it. You're a grown adult. You can do whatever you want to do. But you called here.

And it's my obligation when you call here to love you enough to tell you the truth instead of avoiding what is right in front of me as i'm sitting here looking at your life that is just strange honey it's just strange and everything about the way you answer the questions the way we talked through this was you don't want to avoid having to confront him or bring up this subject in any way. And there's a sense of fear. There's a sense of conflict avoidance and all of it. And I love you, darling, and I want you guys to win. You can choose to live this life if you want to live it, but you called here and you get to decide the life you want to live.

Your husband gets to decide the life you want to live. Your husband gets to decide the life he wants to live. And I think there's more going on than just I'm having trouble getting him on the budget with me. You're not going to get him on the budget with you because other stuff's going on here. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Business leaders now more than ever, we need people with the right skills to support our communities, especially the frontline workers who provide resources and care for those most in need. To help, LinkedIn is offering free job posts for health care and essential service organizations that need to quickly fill critical roles with the people who help us all. If you are hiring for one of these

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Terms and conditions apply. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality and author of the book Love Your Life, Not Theirs, the number one best-selling book. My co-host today on the Dave Ramsey Show, Cheryl, is with us. Cheryl's in California. Hi, Cheryl. How are you? I'm good. How are you today? Better than I deserve. How can we help? I wanted to ask Rachel and you if I should help a roommate pay for college.

She's about Rachel's age, and I'm close to your age, and she just didn't have the same opportunities that Rachel and I had growing up in terms of having a stable household and stuff. You know, she ended up in foster care, and an aunt finally got the kids and finished raising them. Wow. Well, you're a very generous person. How nice. So where are you at Cheryl financially? I'm on four and six. I have to rent rooms in my house to help pay for my house payment because unfortunately I can't do the math of being at 25% of my income. But I feel that I could either give her a break on the rent if she goes to school or, you know, help her out.

And then also guide her and help her get maybe if she can get a grant if her income is low enough. So how much are you talking about giving her? I don't really know. I mean, I was going to suggest that she go to community college like I did, and then the state school was close enough that she could still, you know, be living with me and going to the state school. What would be the most you would give? I'd probably give her, you know, a few thousand dollars a year. Okay.

All right. And your income is what? About 75 okay and you're on four and uh six and so you're you're working your plan okay yeah i mean i think you're in a great position cheryl i mean that's the great thing about giving we we always encourage giving no matter what baby step you're on but specifically when you pass baby step three you're able to be even more generous than obviously baby step seven. You have no payments. All the things are open and you're like, hey, we can just we can give a whole lot more. But yeah, I think you're in a great position, a couple thousand dollars a year. And I love the idea that you're I'm assuming it's going to be a gift. You're not expecting it to be repaid.

Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, totally. I guess, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I love that, Cheryl. I think that that's a wonderful way to give, and, I mean, it excites you, obviously. I mean, I know you. Yeah, you're very generous. It sounds like you're in a little bit or have the potential to be a little bit in a mentoring role. Would that be right? I would hope so, you know. Okay.

Well, I might formalize that just a little bit or at least clarify that you are or aren't so that one of you doesn't think you are and one of you doesn't think you aren't. And I would also clarify the level of help because, you know, when you call up and say, I'd like to help a friend pay for college, I don't know if you meant $20,000 or $2,000. Yeah. And so she wouldn't either, by the way. So you need to say, you know, I might be able to help you for as much as a couple of thousand dollars a year, and that would involve me also helping coach you with your budget and maybe your school selection

and just kind of come along as an older sister and guide you a little bit. Yes. And, you know, clarify the roles so she doesn't think you're invading her boundaries, and she also doesn't misjudge how much money we're talking about here. Okay. Clarity will make the gift work well. Lots of communication and openness instead of just kind of being vague and going, well, I'll help you with college.

And I would say, too, part of the gift you're giving, just not even the financial side, but the coaching. But the coach, I mean, like, honestly, having someone to walk you through this process, considering she hasn't had that. She's been in foster care. She's, you know, her aunt, you know, took her in and all of that, which is wonderful. But, man, to have someone say, hey, look, we're going to look at the numbers. We're going to look at community college, state you walk her through she makes a smart choice for her

you can help on the side that's worth that's worth more than a couple thousand yeah well that and then she graduates debt-free made smart decisions along with your gift that helped and like that's the ideal situation so the things that she's going to learn from you share on how to make wise critical thinking decisions uh is huge in that process. So don't underestimate that part of it. Having done this wrong myself a couple times, what I'm warning you against is don't allow something like this to happen, where they have an expectation that it's a different amount of money, number one, be clear on that. Number two, have an expectation and be in agreement on what level of influence you're going to have.

So in other words, you might not want to offer her $2,000 if you think she's going to go to a school and go $80,000 a year in debt for four years. I personally wouldn't participate in that. You might not either, and you would need to tell her that. And so you are going to be involved involved and if you're perceived as controlling rather than mentoring um can you tell that might have happened to me and um then you know you control me never no perceived as controlling never no but yeah so i mean yeah i just you know if you if you get my help you get all the help it's not part of it and so i've just I just, you know, if you get my help, you get all the help. It's not part of it. And so I've just learned, I'm okay if you don't want to do it all,

but I just need to be clear about what my part is and your part is. Well, yes, and the guidance you're giving her, the boundaries you're giving her, are good for her. Right. And so we do say give a gift without strings attached, but that means usually the financial strings of it. If you want to do that, if you want to just give her $2,000 blind, there's nothing wrong with that. Right.

But make sure you have that expectation and she does too. Not that you have an expectation you're going to coach her into wisdom on these moves and then she goes off the ranch and takes your $2,000. That's highly dissatisfying from experience. Okay? It's not, you know, all of a sudden my generosity doesn't feel so happy anymore you know and so because i really wanted to help yeah you know you want to help that's why we're doing this crap and instead i participated in crazy that's right because i

didn't give i didn't give good guidelines that's all i'm warning you about yes and i do want people to hear like there's that side and then there are people listening to i just don't want them to think oh okay i'm gonna give with all these and they gotta do x i don't know they're there no you don't have to an unhealthy control you can just say hands off yeah and then walk away and if i did that i'm fine too yes but to her in her situation that that wouldn't be good for her roommate either it's like that's what we were saying earlier she's trying to help the girl in more ways than two thousand bucks i think you're i think your love and your guidance as a wiser uh lady uh is just i think it's much more valuable than the two thousand dollars and so if uh if we can get the young lady to accept both i think she's got a

best of all worlds i'm just saying be really clear so that everyone knows where we're going and then no one's disappointed by the transaction and everyone gets what they're supposed to get from the generosity um because what i've done rachel and uh you know this that we stopped doing it uh with the advent of the ramsey family foundation that your sister runs uh is the director of i i would just get sloppy because I'm generous. And I would just go, here's some money. But I would have in my mind that they were doing something smart with it, and then I would look up and they did something dumb with it.

And I thought, I just wasted some of God's money because I actually gave a drunk a drink over here, and that's not what God wanted me to do with that generosity. He wanted me to cause it to give them traction and to give them help. And it's dissatisfying in the generosity realm if you have an expectation of that. If you can just hand it to them and walk away and have no knowledge of what happens and be okay with that. And there's some money we do that way at Ramsey. But most of the stuff we do, we want to participate in giving traction to a valid thing that's done wisely. Yeah.

And so, but I just got sloppy. I was sloppy with my giving. And a guy challenged me on it that was very wealthy, and he said, you do a lot of due diligence on your investing. You're very careful with your investing, and you're sloppy with your generosity. Why are you sloppy with God's money? And I thought, you know, know that's really i need to be i need to do a better job with my generosity and so that's where the clarity comes from uh because

i did it wrong and it was and it is it's there's a time or two i've done it and you're just like well i just wished i wouldn't have done that you know i just it was i was on me it's my fault and so yeah and and so then once you do that a time or two, then you don't hesitate to be, to say, well, these are the guidelines. And if you want to do it that way, fine. If you don't want to do it, we just won't do it. And that, well, you're controlling. No, those are the guidelines.

It's not controlling. I'm telling you up front what we're doing. And it's not just for your sake. I'm not ever doing it for my sake. No, I know. I'm just saying that out loud. Like, it is for just for your sake. I'm not ever doing it for my sake. No, I know. I'm just saying that out loud. It is for that person, too. You're bettering their life by giving them wisdom and steps to take.

Exactly. Good stuff. That's a good discussion. Because we challenge people in Financial Peace University and in all of our teachings to be outrageously generous. And occasionally we need to stop and say, with wisdom. Yes. This is the Daveave ramsey show your refrigerator just went out but you don't feel safe letting a repair professional in your home. Here's an idea.

Fix your major appliances and power equipment yourself with parts and expert advice from my friends at Appliance Parts Pros. They carry over 2 million appliance and outdoor power equipment parts and offer easy 365 day returns get your parts today at appliancepartspros.com our scripture of the day second john 1, watch yourselves so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Ravi Zacharias just passed away. Absolutely incredible intellect, incredible man of faith. One of the best apologists to live in the last century said, beginning well is a momentary thing. Finishing well is a lifelong thing. Sarita is with us in Michigan. Hi, Sarita.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hey, what's up? Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Hello, hello. How can we help? Well, I'm calling today.

I just want to let you first know we're debt-free, my husband and I, but I am getting old enough to be able to take Social Security at age 62, and I'm just trying to determine if that's a smart thing to do. We don't need those dollars, but I think maybe I could manage them better than the government can, and I'm thinking about getting them and maybe putting into mutual funds well if you take the uh if you get the calculations from social security on what you would receive today at 62 and you invest that for three years until 65 that would then the end the return off of that investment would pay you more than the extra that you would get if you wait until 65 to get it. You understand?

Yes. So if you start taking it at 62, you get a reduced amount the entire time until you die, right? Right. Versus if you take it at 65, you would get more. The difference in those two figures, the 65 payment or the 62 payment, would be made up for with the investments between 62 and 65. So you are right, you will manage it better than Social Security, which is a fairly low bar, but, you know, that's a squirrel bar. A squirrel can get over that bar, but, you know,

anybody can manage it better than Social Security, for God's sakes. But it's a negative rate of return. But if you did that, then the calculation, I mean, I've done them about 10 or 15 times. You can do it in your situation. Contact SocialSecurity.gov, and they'll give you the calculation on what you would get at 62 and what you'd get at 65. And if you say 36 months of those payments from 62 to 65 invested, would the rate of return on my mutual fund give me the difference for the rest of my life?

Plus, oh, by the way, that money survives you, and Social Security does not survive you. So, yes. Right. Yes, if you're going to invest it, take it early. If you're going to barely starve to death and try to live on Social Security your whole life, I'm going to encourage you to work on up to 65 because you're going to need the money of that increased amount beginning at 65. I actually retired at 55, and I get a pension. So we've been living off the pension and my husband's a sole

proprietor um he's trying to wind his business down so it's not making a ton of money right now but that's okay because we've got we're fine yeah you've done a good job yeah that's what I suspected the way you asked the question so yeah but the concept being that 36 months of income invested the return on the investment the amount mutual funds will pay out, usually is more than the fact that you're taking less because you started earlier. It's kind of convoluted the way I'm saying it. No, it made total sense, yeah. But that's the way you get at the calculation.

But run your numbers to be sure. They don't always work that way, but they should work that way if they're doing their calculations right. But don't assume competency with those folk either. All right, Vivian is in Arizona. Hi, Vivian. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave and Rachel. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Oh, so, Dave, I just wanted to seek your advice. My husband and I married five years ago. I have no student loan, but my husband had about 45 pounds student loan. And now because he's not paying it, it's gone up to about 60.

And I'm just trying to get him to start paying, but he just won't. I don't know why. He won't tell me. What do I do? Okay, so what other debt do you guys have? Yeah, so thankfully my husband does not use credit card and I don't have any

credit card. I've never, I moved here from Asia and I've never had a credit card so that's something new to me. Anyway, so we have no debt our cars are all paid off so it's just the student loan yeah and and have you asked him point blank i yeah i asked him the thing is the degree that he got he's not using it his job is his uh is his job he's always had so he's not actually using that degree for and he's not i. So he's not actually using that degree for, and he's not, I mean, he's not using that degree.

So I'm wondering maybe that's it. But I don't know why he won't pay off the debt. So you haven't asked him? I asked him, but he just won't say anything. He just says, I'll get to it. I'll get to it. He never gets around to it. Yeah.

Okay. Well, there's a couple of things that I just hear in your language is, you know, his debt, mine. Like the way you're phrasing things is that it's it's not this cohesive team process that you guys are using to talk about your money. Are you guys on a budget together? No, I want to set a budget, but he just won't. I want to start saving to forest and buy a house, but he won't. I have, you know, trying to reason with him is like pulling a teeth. And he's an American. He's born and bred.

He's American. He's white. I'm Asian. And I learned, I quickly found out. White American does not always equal smart, darling. I've read Dave. Dave, I've read your book, Total Money Makeover. And Rachel, I'm reading Smart Money, Smart Kids right now.

And I have two stepkids from him. And I'm also trying to work with them about Dave Ramsey. Okay, so what does he make a year and what do you make a year? Right now I'm a stay-at-home mom. I was working as an office manager before. So right now I'm a stay-at-home mom. As soon as my baby's weaned off, I'm going to go back to work. He makes about $43,000 a year. And I am very, very frugal. So that's how we've been managing thus far. And I've managed to save some too. I want to pay off with the debt.

Yeah. And what do you make a year when you're working? When I was working, I was, um, because I'm new here. So, um, uh, I was making only about 25,000 a year. You're going back to that after the baby, right? I don't know. I want to, oh, you're not sure. Okay. All right. Yeah. I have a, I have a background and I actually have, how long did you say you'd been married? Five years. Okay. All right. Well, what you're facing is probably not that unusual overall. And you're equating it to necessarily your backgrounds, and I don't think that's what it is.

I think it's just a breakdown. You do not have shared goals, and you do not have communication over the subject of money. And the bottom line is that that's terrifying you. It is. And I don't think you've used that word. I think you need to get his, I think you need to place your hands on each side of his face

and pull his eyes next to yours and say, this is terrifying me. This is terrifying me. It's creating deep anxiety and anxiety in me that we will not work on this and you will not work on this please for the sake of our marriage for the sake of my sanity please help me please and see what kind of reaction that because instead you're just having these glancing blow drive-thrus drive-bys of conversations rather than sitting down having a deep conversation about how this is affecting you because you're scared darling i hear it in your voice and it's the

avoidance of conflict like we took a call similar um a few seconds ago but it's not sometimes what i try to explain to ladies is men and and I'm included in this, are thick. You cannot just give us, we don't do subtlety. You just have to say it. He should know. He may not know. He doesn't know. Yeah.

Why doesn't he do this? Look, the fact that you don't talk to me about this is terrifying me. It feels like it's a weight over our heads and it's going to come in and wash our whole house away. This is scaring me to death. I can hear it in your voice, and he's not hearing it. And so one of the things Sharon and I learned when we were trying to work on our marriage was that sometimes something is a 10 to you, and it's a 2 to him. And so this is a 1 to him and a 12 to you. And you're trying to communicate.

He's hearing a one. He's not hearing a 12. And you need to change your language to pierce through the thickness where he hears 12. Fire alarm, fire alarm, fire alarm. This is a problem. It's not you griping. It's I'm scared because you are. I hear it.

Rachel, thanks for hanging out yep thanks for having me on that puts this hour of the dave ramsey show in the books thanks to james childs and kelly daniel in the booth i am dave ramsey we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus Christ Jesus. In the middle of these uncertain times, Ramsey Solutions wants to give you some hope. For the very first time ever, we're giving you Financial Peace University free for 14 days. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash hope so you can watch from home.