The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Blindly Support Your Family's Stupidity! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: February 20, 2020

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. You jump in, we'll talk about your life, your money. It is a free call at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Bridget is with us in Philadelphia.

Hi, Bridget. How are you? Hi, Mr. Ramsey. I'm wonderful. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I'm calling. My son is living with me. He is 22 years old. He doesn't have debt, but he did have a few issues. So he hadn't worked for the last year or so. He just found a job, which is great. and now i'm trying my darndest to try and get him to understand your you know the way you do things and and the entire um dave ramsey you know world and just try and let him see like this is how you should start out and he's just so resistant and i'm not sure he's what i can do because he is his own person he's what'd you say

he's he's resistant he is okay so he's 22 years old he's not can do because he is his own person. What did you say? He's resistant? He is. He's resistant. Okay, so he's 22 years old. He's not been working because he had some issues. What does that mean? Right. So he always worked when he was in high school, and then he did have a run-in, and he actually went to jail for, like, nine months.

So when he got out, we had had an issue trying to find him. I was trying to help him, trying to help him find a job. And he just got a job. He's been there for just a few weeks now. It's going well, and I really want him to get on his feet. Okay. So what was his crime? He had a little bit of marijuana on him, but he also had a gun. Thank God that it was never used.

But it wasn't his gun. I mean, it was his gun, obviously. Those two things don't go together legally. I got you. Okay. Exactly. And so he's young and stupid. I've been there.

All right. And so he's 22. He got nine months off. Did they declare this a misdemeanor or a felony? No, he's got two felonies, actually, because of the drugs and the gun. I was afraid of that. Okay. So he's pretty marked up for getting a job when they do a criminal background.

Right. So what's his job? What does he do? What kind of jobs does he do? It works right now for a wonderful um it's like a charity foundation here uh where you donate and people buy the products and he makes about 22 it'll make about 22 000 a year now good okay very good does he have any debt he does not um thank god he lived with. He didn't go to college. Okay. But, um... All right. So, um, here's a...

And you're a single mom? I am. I am. You're not married. Okay. And so it's just you and him in the house? Right. Okay.

All right. So here's how this sounds if I'm in your shoes talking to him. That's what you're asking for. Right. Okay. Yes. Um, son, I'm not'm not uh gonna hold over your head all the stupid things you've done we've all done stupid things in the past it's in the past we call

that grace we're going to look forward together my job as your mom and as your grown older friend is to help you have a wonderful adult life from this point forward, which will include leaving here and operating on your own accord as soon as you can financially. And son, you know, what I want to do is I will love you enough to make you do the things that are going to be good for you. And so you while you live under my roof, here are my rules. And then you list out what your rules are okay if you're at my house uh you go to church on sunday if you're at my house uh you don't bring illegal drugs or

anything that's going to screw up your probation into my house uh if you're in my house you come in early go to bed early and get up and get your butt to work uh if you're in my house and that's how you pay your rent if you're not going to do that your rent is not free work if you're in my house, and that's how you pay your rent. If you're not going to do that, your rent is not free anymore, and you're not welcome anymore because I'm not going to participate in you screwing up your life further, and you're going to be on the straight and narrow. That's how it sounds at my house. I'm an old-school dad. I'm under the illusion that if you're under my roof, I'm freaking in charge.

Yes. Okay, so you set the tone, and this is all about I'm doing something that's good for you. I don't need anything from you except for you to win. I love you. I want you to win. I want you to have a positive future, and your positive future sounds like those things, and it sounds like you're going to be on a budget, and you and I are going to review your budget and what you're doing with your money, and you and I are going to review that

you're saving money. You're welcome to live here for free. I'll do your laundry. I will help cook for you. I'll buy your food, and you won't pay a dime in rent. You can't beat this deal. It only costs you a budget and behavior. It's a great deal for you, my son.

Exactly. Exactly. It is. That's exactly what I need you to do. But, yeah, you don't participate. You don't have the option of being resistant and letting your little butt live here. Your little resistant butt's going to be homeless. Exactly.

I've been scraping to try and keep everything going, you know, and carry him. So it's been really. He's too big to carry. Yeah, and I don't want him to be me, you know. Like, I want him to not worry when he's older. Yeah, I mean, you know, he's not engaging in behaviors that are going to give him positive results. You do reap what you sow. Right.

What you plant in the ground grows. And he planted some stupid stuff in the ground, and he grew some jail time. And, you know, if he doesn't plant some positive things in the ground, he's going to grow some other stuff. We all do that. I've done stupid, too. I'm not mad at this kid. I probably was this kid almost. And so, but... It's so frustrating. But I got but they're frustrating but i gotta tell you before all this happened i mean there's nothing thicker there's nothing thicker than the skull of a 22 year old boy that's the way it feels

my goodness no you gotta hit him with a two before so hard metaphorically that it rings his bell a girl you can actually talk to but you have to hit these guys upside the head they're thick yeah i i keep thinking that maybe if i like i might um once i get a little extra money you can't hurt his feelings he doesn't have any i know i just want him to understand it like i bought him the book on cd he doesn't even have to sit and read i'm like just listen i bought him the wallet yeah CD. He doesn't even have to sit and read. I'm like, just listen. I bought him the wallet. I'm like, just listen. You can't stay here unless you do these things. This is your rent contract.

This is your rent contract. You do these 10 things, you get to stay here free. And I will give you free rent, free electricity, free food, and free laundry service. But these are the 10 things you're going to do. And all of them you are doing, you are doing for you. Yes. Exactly. That's the whole thing.

That's how I'm going to talk to him. And what I'm encouraging you to do is be real loving but unbelievably direct, blunt, and strong. Because you've got to get through that thick dadgum head, man. That's what it is he's just a hard head good news is if you ever get a hard head on track you can't get them off track either once they dial in you can't get them off i got dialed in about 30 years ago and i'm still doing it the good stuff you know so once you get a hard head dialed in they're pretty good they're pretty good folk so he's got a place to go i'm not saying he's a ruined guy he's got a lot of places to go but if he keeps going down the other path

and goofing around and he's he's acting like he's smart or something he's not smart he's dumber than a rock and he just needs somebody to love him well and get him straightened up and get him moving and that's you mom so i'm proud of you you get after it i'm gonna send you a copy of the book strong our uh strong fathers now let's that would probably work but anyway let's try uh let's So I'm proud of you. You get after it. I'm going to send you a copy of the book Strong Fathers. That would probably work. But anyway, let's try Smart Money, Smart Kids because it's got some stuff in there on even instructing 22-year-olds that live under your roof. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. If you do this one simple thing that we all do, you are literally at risk of being hacked and someone stealing what you've worked so hard for.

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That's CyberGhost VPN. Download it today from your app store and be secure in seconds. our question today comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction guarantee means even if you mess up if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color, they're going to remake your window blind for free. With Blinds.com, you also get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you're going to save money. Check out the promo code RAMSEY at Blinds.com. Sarah's in Utah.

My husband and I are firm believers in the financial principles you teach. We have some intense financial goals that have the house paid off within five years, and we're living off of beans and rice and limiting our activities that cost a lot of money. My husband's family does not practice the same financial principles we want to follow and don't respect our decision to live such a restrictive budget. They pressure us to go on expensive trips, eat out with them, and spend money on activities that are way out of our budget. How do we help them understand and respect our financial choices?

You can't. They don't. You've just got to do what you're going to do. Now, I will give you clarification on this, Sarah. I don't teach people when they're in baby steps four, five, and six to be on beans and rice and have absolutely no vacations and do nothing with money. Now, if you want to do that, that's okay. I'm not mad at you for being intense and wanting to get your house paid off in five years.

I love the goal. But what we teach is beans and rice, rice and beans, scorched earth, no lifestyle in baby steps one through three. Until you're debt free and have an emergency fund in place, you should be petrified and go crazy. You ought to be terrified and go crazy until you get that foundation laid. Once that's laid and then you start putting 15% away for retirement, saving for kids college and baby step six is pay off the house. You're also making some purchases and have increased your lifestyle. Let the foot off the gas a little bit, so to speak, during those baby steps.

And typically people even doing that are paying off their home in about seven or eight years. That's the typical thing we find with the total money makeover baby steps. So that's a point of clarification that, you know, I don't want you doing what you're doing and say it's because Dave Ramsey said do it because I don't. I don't. That's not what we teach. And so it's okay. I don't think you're wrong, but I think you're pretty extreme, and you said you're extreme. Now, if you want to do something extreme and your family doesn't understand, that's just called being a grown-up. I mean, if you don't make some choices that are different than your family agrees with,

I don't think you are a grown-up. Everybody makes choices. My kids make choices that are different than I would do in different things. And I don't control or run their lives, and I love them where they are. I have family members that vote for the wrong party, and I love them anyway. So, and I'm not going to respect their choice on that because i disagree with it i think it's brain damage and that by the way they think i'm brain damaged and they still love me so it's okay you know i mean that's just it but but if they can't respect you versus your choices

and give you room to live your life, then they have issues. They're called boundary issues. And so, you know, guys, this is what we're doing. And we love you all, and we're sorry if you don't understand, but this is what we've chosen to do. And if you think we're a little crazy, we're okay with that. We're the crazy cousins. Just say that. It's okay.

Most family has crazy in it somewhere. You know, if you don't think there's crazy in your family, it's probably everybody's a little crazy somewhere you know it's all right it's all right it's all right we can love you right where you are that's what we're going to do and and so bottom line is i can't make people respect me or my choices that's a choice that is theirs to respect me or my choices and you know it's not i mean i in a situation the other day they uh i can't remember where i was where was i was doing something with one of my buddies who's very wealthy and they wouldn't take a credit card and neither one of us had one and we're both laughing because we've got the money to buy the store, you know, but we can't do business. I can't think where I was.

But it was like, you know, well, this guy has a right to decide how to run his business. He owns the business, but I have the right to decide I'm not going to borrow using a credit card, and so I can't go in there. You know, I can't go in there. I can't help you with this. I can't do in there. You know, I can't go in there. I can't help you with this. I can't do business with you. So it's just, you know, you have to just, the part of the breakdown and the civility and the way people interact with each other and families and, for that matter, in society is everybody claims it's tolerance, but it's not tolerance at all.

Tolerance is I'm going to let you do what you want to do. I'm not going to make you do something. But on the other hand, you're not going to make me do what you want to do. I'm not going to make you do something. But on the other hand, you're not going to make me do something. That's tolerance. But, I mean, we've renamed tolerance to where I want you to do what I want you to do, and then I'm going to call that tolerant because I am the ultimate arbitrator of morality. And so I'm going to tell you what you're going to do. And that's where civility starts to break down in families and in our culture today.

Big time. Big time. Crystal is in the The Ramsey Baby Steps community, and that's the private Facebook group that you can join if you ask for it and jump on there. It is the official Ramsey Facebook group, and there's some fun stuff going on in there. My mother-in-law constantly has to borrow money. She's not disabled.

She's not elderly. She works full-time and splits rent with a friend. She always needs money, and that's my husband, her son, and he can't tell her no. What should I do? Go down to Walmart on aisle three and buy your husband a backbone. That's what you need to do. This is not a mother-in-law problem. This is a man problem.

He needs to man up. He can't tell his mommy no. Oh, well, it's family. You're supposed to stick up for family. No, you're not. If your family's doing cocaine, you don't give them the money to do cocaine. Well, it's family. It's family.

It's family. A new family. Family. Family. That's what people say when they're blindly supporting stupidity and misbehavior. And that's all this is. This woman is lazy, and she's disorganized, and she is a travel agent for guilt trips, and your husband buys the ticket.

No boundaries. Another boundary question your husband buys the ticket. No boundaries. Another boundary question there, by the way. And get Dr. Henry Cloud on here. We haven't had him on here in a while. You know, come on, Henry. Help us with these boundaries, right? He's a lot nicer about boundaries than I am. I'm pretty brutal about them.

So, yeah, your husband needs a backbone, so he looks at his mom and says no. Because he's not helping her. When he gives her money, he's harming her. Because he's funding her delusion that her life is okay. He's funding her misbehavior. He's funding her not fixing what's wrong with her life. And I want her to fix what's wrong. I want her to be healed.

I want her to fix what's wrong i want her to be healed i want her to win and so if i'm going to give her money i'm going to force behavior change that helps her and causes her to be wealthy later and i'm going to give her a leg up towards that with money but i'm not going to support her misbehavior because i'm too wussified to tell my mommy no. Man, we have a manhood crisis, don't we? Kathy is on Facebook. They currently have Primerica Life Insurance. It's not listed at Zander, so I wanted to know if you recommend it. It claims to provide coverage until age 95.

We plan to raise our coverage as our finances get better. Is this good, or should I look elsewhere? Primerica sells term life insurance, and that's good. It is expensive term life insurance, and that's bad. So if you were to want to buy life insurance, you know, 15-, 20-year-level term life insurance, and you go to Zander Insurance and you price it out, you will find it to be the cheapest because they're going to shop among a gazillion of the best and cheapest companies out there and what prime america does is great they sell term life

insurance and they sell investments and mutual funds and that's all fine but um i'm not a fan of the actual products that they sell and i do not endorse them no so and that's why they're not listed on zander because their prices aren't any good. It's that simple. It's just like State Farm. You wouldn't buy a term from State Farm. You wouldn't buy a term from Nationwide. Their term sucks.

It's very expensive. And so you can do much better at Zander Insurance. It's not just because they're my advertiser. It's a math thing. Just go look at the price. Pretty simple. Zanderinsurance.com. You get a quick, easy quote.

They don't sell your name to 14 people and you're going to get the best deal. That was easy. This is Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major health care costs. Christian Health Care Ministries is the original health cost-sharing ministry, a Better Business Bureau-accredited organization CHM members share to pay each other's medical bills. It's not insurance. It's Christians financially

and spiritually supporting each other. It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years. And our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org Thanks for being with us, America.

This is your show. Angie is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Angie. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. Thank you for taking my call and giving me the opportunity to ask you a question. My question is, we are on baby step three, and the last thing we have for our debt is our house and i have um

i have a few lingering old hospital bills then you're not on baby step three well that's technically no i'm trying to work that out though my husband tells me that you say we should only pay $0.25 per dollar. And I'm trying to work with the debtors to pay them. I only have one of them who are willing to drop it at all. And they're willing to take off 40%. And I'm only looking at a total of about $3,800. Okay. So I don't know if we should do that. My husband tells me, no, that you say that we should be able to work it out with them to get it $0.25 per dollar. And I have been working with

them. How old are the debts? They're about four years old. Are you paying payments on them? No, we only literally just started getting our like bills and life together within the last year. Good for you okay all right 3,800 bucks and what's your household income um monthly it's about 6,500 and our debt or our allowances that we pay out in food and bills and things like that's about 3,700 gotcha okay all right um i would take the 40 one is that how of one is that? That one is a total of about $2,000. Okay, so that gets a half of it gone, right? Yes.

Yeah, and then just get in writing the actual balance on the others and just pay them. Well, see, that was going to be my other question. They refuse to do that. Then they get no money. They will not give. Then they get no money. Okay. Because they're playing you, and they're going to come back

for more late fees and interest on top of what they what you think you owe i gotcha so okay my husband were having he said no if he wants to if he wants to get all involved in this it probably would be helpful okay because i want him to get nasty with them okay you have got to be kidding me do you idiots want money or not if you want money i'm standing here with money but i have to have it in writing or i'm not giving you a dime because i think you're lying because your mouth is moving okay because literally this is this is what the guy tells me. He goes, well, we do not send out letters. We do not send out emails. We don't care if you pay your bill or not because it's on your credit.

It's your debt. And I'm thinking, okay, well, consciously I feel bad owing this money. You know, and like I said, we've changed everything. You know what, I don't care if I pay it either. Let me talk to your supervisor because you're too stupid to talk to okay this is how i mean you you're not dealing with intelligent life you're talking to a collector who just told you he doesn't care if you pay your bill horse crap yeah that's you know that's just dumb and just say it. You know, that's a dumb butt statement. Do you think I'm going to fall for that?

Let me talk to your supervisor. You're too stupid to work this out. A simple email from one of you morons, and I will send you a check. And you'll have this cleared up, and I'll have it cleared up. Isn't it your job to collect a bill, or are you too stupid and trifling to do your job? I'm sorry, people that are listening out there that are nice people, they don't understand, but you've not been dealing with intelligent life. The people you're talking to is parents or cousins.

Right. Well, obviously. But, hey, thank you on that, and I want to say one more thing, and that other thing is that literally in the last year that we've started doing this, like things have done such a degree turnaround for us everything like we just we appreciate the program and it's working so well for us thank you thank you very much listen dude thank you look at this conversation as a game so the stuff that i'm doing right there it's psychological warfare they're just messing with you and here's the problem if you send them

a 250 check on a four-year-old medical bill that you think is 250 they're going messing with you and here's the problem if you send them a 250 check on a four-year-old medical bill that you think is 250 they're going to send you a bill for another 208 in late fees okay if you don't have it in writing that this is the actual balance gotcha okay so i will do that and not pay them until i get a letter yeah and just you know when and call them once a month and go say you idiots ready for money okay you know just start the conversation that way because everybody i've talked to over there's a fool so far are you a fool you work there you must be a fool because everybody else that works there's a fool so just just mess with them because that's what they're doing with you and i'm telling you they're playing you and you will you will pull

the thread on this sweater forever if you don't get it in writing and time down. You can tell they're lying if their mouth is moving. Daniel is with us in Dallas. Hi, Daniel. How are you? I'm good, sir. How are you doing? Better than I deserve.

What's up? Hey, so my wife and I are somewhere in between two days to two weeks from Friday being out of Baby Step 2. Yay! Yeah, so we'll call back and do our stream then. So I'll be really excited just calling then. So my question is, we've been really going gazelle intense. We paid off about, once we're done, we'll be at about $67,000 in about two and a half years. Way to go, man.

Congratulations. Yeah, it's been really good. And then I guess my question is, we've both been working second jobs. So when does Dave Ramsey give permission for us to rest and quit our second job? But, dude, you're an adult, and now you're a successful adult. You get to decide things, okay? You don't need Dave Ramsey's permission to do squat. Well, I mean, your permission has worked really well for us.

I figured I'd ask one more time. Yeah. I mean, you guys have been working 80 hours, 90 hours a week, haven't you? You know, something like that. I mean, she's probably been working a little bit more. She gets overtime. I'm a city worker and get comp time, so I don't get that benefit. But we've probably been working about 50, 60 hours a week each of us,

something like that. Listen, it's a math thing, right? When the debt is gone and you're working baby step three, how fast do you want to build your emergency fund? For sure you quit the second jobs after baby step three. Yes. A hundred percent. Okay.

The only question is how fast do you want to build baby step three? If you want to build it a little bit slower because you quit the second jobs, ding, ding, go ahead. Yeah, it probably only makes about a month difference. Okay. So, I mean, we're looking probably about like four months to build up our baby steps, maybe with the check-out. And you've been going like a crazy people for two and a half years, and you got your debt paid off. So if you want to take an extra month to build that, oh, well, that's fine. Awesome.

Or if you get close and she can pick up some OT that last month and go after it again for a little bit. I mean, the good news is is ot it's not like you have to quit the job you just say i don't want ot or i do want it yeah i do she loves working the overtime she uh the second job is the thing that's like you know we're ready to start spending time with a family a little bit more it's me and her but you know we want to take advantage of it yeah yeah i mean that's that could be your reward that could be part of your debt-free celebration you know i quit yes yeah but that it's just it's you're just you make the adult decision you're making the You're debt-free celebration. You know, I quit. Yes. But it's just you make the adult decision.

You're making the decision. How quick does it do? If it makes a one-month difference, I'm with you. I'd probably quit. I'm kind of right there. So, you know, that's the deal. Hey, thanks for the call. Open phones at 888-825-5225. This is dave ramsey show we're glad you're with us dave i've got a small 401k from a past job what should i do with it

well you always roll a 401k when you leave your job to the next job or I'm sorry. What am I thinking? My brain's not working. Okay. When you leave your work, you always take your retirement with you if you can and roll it direct transfer into an IRA. And we always select four types of growth stock mutual funds, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. That's the process.

So get in touch with SmartVestor Pro and roll it over to a good mutual fund into a direct transfer IRA, a traditional IRA, not a Roth. There's no taxes on that at all. Later you can convert that to a Roth if you would like to. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our scripture today, Psalm 37, 4, Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart. Julius Irving said, Goals determine what you're going to be. Sherry is with us in Phoenix.

Hi, Sherry. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I had a quick question for you. My husband and I,

we started your program about a month ago and, um, we are actually kind of to the point I've talked to credit card companies. We're in a good seven, $70,000, um, in debt, um, mostly because we opened up a new business and we invested the money. Um, but now we're to the point to where we can't even make our four walls. Um, and we don't want to. We don't want to claim bankruptcy. Why can't you make your four walls? Has your income gone down?

It has gone down. He used to work. We haven't been used to the money that he's been getting paid, mostly because he was having to work out of town a lot. He was in Alaska for like four months, and we had two children. So for him to be able to be home more, we had to take a pay cut, and that's when we decided to invest in this business. So that's why the paychecks have gone completely down.

Okay, so he has a side business? He does, yes. What has a side business? He does, yes. What is his side business? It is a, we invested in flip housing. In a what? What'd you say? Like flipping houses. You're broke and you decided to start flipping houses?

Yes, yes. So do you flipping houses? Yes, yes. So do you have houses? We do not. We've been trying the best that we can to try to find one. Good. No, that's absolutely, this is a good way to go bankrupt for sure. Yeah. No, you should not be flipping houses when you are broke and $70,000 in debt and can't even make your bills.

So what is his day job? His day job is he does X-raying on pipelines. So it's a good job. It's not a good job. It doesn't pay your household bills. What is his income? It fluctuates. What's his income a year? What's his income a year?

What's his income a year? $80,000? You can't live on $80,000 a year. Yeah. Why? Well. How much is your rent? We actually have a rental in Colorado,

and we do have a house here in Phoenix. Okay. Sell the rental in Colorado. That's what I've thought about doing. Okay. And what is it worth? It is worth, I believe, $230. And what do you owe on it?

We owe $160. Oh, good. That'll pay off a bunch of the credit card debt. Sell that tomorrow. If you don't have that on the market by Monday, I'm going to come to Phoenix and kick your butt. Okay. This is ridiculous. What is your current home worth?

Our current home is worth $225,000, I believe. What do you owe on it? We owe probably about $215. Okay. And what is your income? I stay home. How many kids? We have two children.

There is one thing that I did want to ask you about. We are locked into, we're wanting to have a third child, but we have to do IVF. I'm sorry sorry we are locked ivs oh okay and we're locked into doing that because we made our deposit if we don't go through with it we will lose that deposit how much was your deposit it was 500 and what's the follow-through 15,000 4,800 44,800. $4,800. Okay. Yes. All right.

And you have $70,000 in debt, and you have a house in Colorado. What do you owe on your cars? Our cars, his is paid off. Mine is a forerunner. Our payments are like $500 a month, which I've told him to get rid of it. Sell it. Okay, good. So we're selling the car.

We're selling the house. We're going to finish the IVF. We're going to pay cash for it. And he's going to pick up an extra job. I'm sorry he's not going to see his children. He's getting ready to lose everything. This is what you do when you're up against the wall. You go to work. Yeah.

A lot. It's not a lifetime sentence, but for the next two years, he needs to be working 80 hours a week and get this dadgum family out of the ditch. Yeah. And no, you're not flipping any houses. Good Lord. Yeah, yeah. You paid $3,000 to go to that weekend class crap, didn't you?

We paid $70,000. Well, in total, we got asked to be part of the next level. So we had to invest more money into that. What's the next level of getting screwed? What? Exactly. I know. I know.

Unbelievable. Oh, God. And I wasn't sure. I tried talking to credit card companies because, of course, I don't want to. Unbelievable. Oh, God. And I wasn't sure. I tried talking to credit card companies because, of course, I don't want to not pay. Listen, you need to list out your budget. I don't give a crap about your credit cards. Just let them sit there. If they scream and your credit gets messed up, I don't care.

Right now, you need to list your food, lights and water, pay your house payment, pay your car payment until you get it sold. You have enough coming in to do that. You were wrong. You can meet your four walls. Okay. $80,000 a year will do that. Plus, he's got three extra jobs now. I just gave them to him.

Real jobs that pay money, not that are ripping him off. You should not have to pay money to make money in this case. You go get a job making money. I don't care if you're delivering pizza. But whatever you need. If he can get OT on his current job, take all the OT because he's probably worth more there than he is anywhere else. Exactly. Or side gigs in that industry because apparently Alaska and now he's still doing x-ray.

So he's a pipeline guy. He probably has some pretty specialized skills that are pretty valuable if we put him to work right. And let's go earn some money and clean this mess up. The credit cards can sit. I don't want them to, but they're the last thing on the list to pay here. Get rid of the car. Get rid of the house in Colorado immediately.

Immediately. And then all you've got to do is buy food, lights, and water, pay your house payment. You can do that. That's your four walls. Four walls are necessities. Everything else after that might be in trouble for a while, but I don't think it is. I think you can probably pay it all if you get on a really, really tight budget, beans and rice, rice and beans. And no, you're not going on vacation. Not anytime soon. And no, you're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there. Oh, and by the way, anything you can do to pick up some extra income while you're at home with

these kids would be awesome. $1,000 a month changes this formula pretty dramatically. I don't care if you're watching somebody else's kid. That wouldn't be a bad thing for a little while. Something along those lines, anything. I don't care. If you've got some kind of specialized training yourself and skills, you can bring it in home and do that two or three hours a day. And you are a home economist. You are a coupon queen. You are a consignment sale lady and you're cooking from scratch because it's healthier and a whole lot cheaper. And if you're going to be home, that's the kind of stuff you're going to be doing. And I don't mind you being home. I'm if you're going to be home, that's the kind of stuff you're going to be doing.

And I don't mind you being home. I'm with you on the goal of that, and I'm with you on the goal of the next baby. I don't mind any issue with that. But don't put any down any more deposits if this round of IVF doesn't work until we get this household out of a ditch. The last thing you need is the stress around all this stuff going on, and then add to that the stress of trying to have another child. That just puts you, man, bless your heart, that's a mess. But you guys are going to have to take some action here that's wise and that is long-term thinking,

because you've made several unwise decisions so far, and you're going to have to offset that and turn it around. But that's what's going on here. You don't have a four walls problem. You can eat, you can pay your lights and water, and you can pay your house payment, and you can pay your car payment until you get it sold. You can pay, and that's the deal.

So, you know, it just doesn't make sense. You can do your four walls. That's the way to go. So thank you for the call. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer, Blake Thompson, our chief production officer, and Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember,

there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Blake Thompson, senior executive producer for the show. You know, you can listen or watch anywhere with the Dave Ramsey Show app on your smartphone. Catch the full show or watch the highlights and check out Dave's upcoming guests. Head to the App Store and download it today.