The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Borrow Against Your House To Buy Groceries! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: July 12, 2023

Ken Coleman & Rachel Cruze answer your questions and discuss:  Why you shouldn't have a mortgage that's 40% of your take home pay, from the blog: Mortgage Calculator How to determine how much of an Emergency Fund you need, from the blog: A Guide to Your Emergency Fund "Should we do use a first lien HELOC to buy our first home?" from the blog: Mortgage Options to Avoid What to do when you can't get a hold of your budget and are still living paycheck to paycheck, from the blog: Gazelle Intensity: Do You Have It? How to make lasting family memories for little to no money, "Should I pursue a growing side hustle or take a promotion at work?" from the blog: How to Take Your Side Hustle Full Time Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Here's an EveryDollar deal just for our listeners: get a 14-day free trial PLUS $15 off your first year of premium. Click the link below and start budgeting today! www.everydollar.com/TRS Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3cEP4n6 Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Interested in advertising on The Ramsey Show? https://ter.li/s64ye3 Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage studio, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money, your work, and your relationships. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225 888-825-5225. Rachel Cruz is my co-host. I am Ken Coleman and we are thrilled to be with you. We'll take your questions about your money

and work related and income issues today as Rachel and I sit in together. Thrilled to have you with us. John is up in Dallas, Texas. John, how can we help okay hello john hi uh thanks for taking my call i appreciate it you bet okay so i'm a band teacher in a public school um i'm single i'm debt free um i have four months of my income in emergency funds, and I'm pretty much in control of my budget. The part where the reason for my call is that 40% of my income right now is going towards my mortgage. And the way I had tried to justify the 15% of that was, oh, I'll just cut back on

these ratios of my budget to fit that, you know, that payment. And so I've been fine. I still have about 13% left over miscellaneous after putting in for retirement and savings. But I'm really calling to find out, you know, if I'm lying to myself about what situation I'm in or if I'm truly okay. And last little thing is I really just found you guys two weeks ago through the happy hour that you guys have. Oh, yeah. Oh, smart money happy hour. And just started following your stuff intently the last two weeks,

so it kind of put me in a guilty place of thinking, if that makes sense. Yeah. Well, you've done a fantastic job up until that point, John, without following. I feel like we're the only some of the only voices out there that are like be debt free have an emergency fund all that you've done it all just on your own which is very impressive um so yeah so the 40 percent uh it is high i mean we really do say 25 if you push it to 30 you could but that 25 marker is kind of where we usually land

because we want you to be able to have margin with your money and with your income to do other things. But the fact that, yeah, where you are season-a-life-wise, being single, no kids, all of it, you could get away with it if you wanted to. But I just think, John, you would have more of an enjoyable discretionary life and income and stuff with it not eating up more than, you know, close to half your income. Is that take-home pay, by the way? Yeah, that's take-home pay.

Okay. And tell me about your living situation. Are you living close to the school? Are you house? Are you apartment? Are you condo? Like where are you at? So I live in a house, um, where I got my mortgage and,

uh, I'm, I'm basically about 30 minutes away from the school that I teach at. I teach in a suburb away from my, um, school just because I couldn't even afford a house by my school. Yeah. And, um, and so you really, the reason why I got into the house was i was like okay it was a new bill so i was going to go into a bidding war with people at the time and interest rates and um but you know like you said i felt guilty about that 15 percent of like you know being debt free i'm like i'm kind of like sure and i feel better about myself at this point being debt free like that's kind of what made me really start to question that 15% that was going out to my mortgage. Even though the area that I live in, you guys just talked about earlier, you know, it's about 30% of my income just rent around where I am anyways. Right.

So that's why I'm kind of like, well, at least I'm investing 15% in something that's appreciating. Sure. So again, I don't know if that's just me lying to myself again or if that's just, you know. Well, I think you answered it in a way, though, John, because you said, I feel like I should feel better being debt-free than at this point. And, I mean, for you, math-wise, how much would 15% back in your pocket be for you? Do you know that math off the top of your head? I mean, it's about $600 to $700.

Okay. Are you single, John? I am, yeah. Look, one option for the short term, and I don't know, I'm not getting in your relational business, but would you be willing to get in a roommate or two? Well, it's funny. I asked someone else, and their reply was get married um and so yeah well

yeah except for the fact we got to find the right person and make sure it's the one for the rest of our lives yeah are you dating anyone like is there someone i mean no no okay i mean at some point i would like to do that but you, there's a little bit more to it than just math. But, yeah, I mean, I've considered a roommate. And to be honest with you, being a band teacher, I mean, I can definitely, the way I thought about it was I can give lessons here and make up for that area of my budget to compensate. And so I don't know if that's something that's also like an option. Yeah, yeah. Because I mean, the way to fix the 40%

is up the income or move, or yeah, or find somewhere different. But do you want to, is it worth working extra for you to stay in the house? That would just be the question. Yeah, that's the question that I honestly kind of go back and forth in. Yeah, it's kind of that time versus money thing.

I do like living in a house. And this current market that we're in, to be honest with you, as a teacher, it's very hard to even get a house. So what do you owe on the house? It's $230,000. Original was $250,000. And what's owed now is $230,000. So here's my question.

If you're willing to have a roommate or two for a season, maybe it's a year or two, I'll tell you, a year goes by fast. I'm just asking you to consider it. You have to comment here on the air. But all of a sudden, if you were able to take that rent that you were to get from someone and put that towards the principal, you have no other debt. You could knock that principal down, and now you put yourself in a really good situation. Do you know what I'm saying? So you're reducing your expenses. So you've got more margin. If you want to start getting lessons on top of that, I just think I would consider that given the fact that rent is going to be really high where you are and you're already in and you're single. Because he's single, Rachel, I kind of want him to hang

on to this thing and find another way to reduce expenses. Do you see your regular income as a band teacher going up, John? What's the percentage for teachers? What's the raise? I mean, to be quite honest with you, I think for any teacher, they would love to tell us

that our raises go up every year, but really what it does is our raises go up with inflation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not that. Yeah.

In other words, it sounds like it's going up in salary, but it is really going up with inflation. But you got your summers, brother. What are you doing this summer? Uh, my summer has literally been,

so I'm a pretty frugal person and, uh, my summers are really just staying home cooking and, and just enjoying not commuting, to be honest with you. Well, if you want to stay in there, I think Rachel asked the right question. Are you willing to get a roommate? Are you willing to work during the summer, bring in some extra income, all to keep the house? And that's your decision. I don't get a say in that, neither does she.

But I will tell you, if I was playing the role of your older brother, I'd say keep the house, but change your income situation or reduce your expenses because you're in. And even do the math, John, for next summer and say, gosh, what if I did private lessons next summer from 10 to 3 p.m. every hour? I mean, for three months, that's a lot of cash, too. And a roommate for a season, for a year. Knocks that principal down big time. Yeah, I would say, John, if you had a ton of debts, no savings, I'd get out of that house ASAP.

But you're not in that situation, so there's some more time to get some options and to get that income up. Thanks for the call, John. Don't move. More of the Ramsey Show coming up. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries.

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a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz this hour, and we're taking your calls about your money,

your work, and your relationships. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Abby joins us from our nation's capital. Abby, how can we help? Hi. Hi. Hello.

I'm so excited to talk to you guys. Well, we're excited to talk to you. Thank you so much for taking my call. Yeah. What's going on? First, Ken, I just have to say, I took your Get Clear assessment recently when it was recommended by my therapist, and it gave me so much clarity with my career, and it

described me perfectly. It was wonderful. Well, that's so great. Well, thanks for sharing that. Glad you're on your way. So how can we help you today? Yeah, so as of Saturday, I will be debt-free finally. Yay! Congratulations. Nice. Thank you, thank you. I put in my application for my debt-free screen, so we'll see if I get down there. Oh, I hope that I'm on the show that day. That'll be fun. Oh, that would be awesome. Yeah. So, um, I'm getting ready to obviously get into baby step three. And my question is kind of twofold. Um, the first part is I know

it's three to six months of expenses and that's kind of a wide range. So I was hoping you guys could help me nail down. Like, if you think based on my situation, I can do more three or four or whatever. And then, um, the second part is like when you're talking about the daily expense or monthly expenses, sorry. When I'm looking at my budget, like what budget line should I be looking at in order to create that number? Yeah, that's a great question. So for the first one, are you single, married, kids? I'm single. Single. Okay. And what kind of job do you have? I work for a school.

I'm a program specialist at an elementary school. Okay, great. Yeah, so in that case, you know, you could lean more three months, Abby. I mean, always when there's more things happening, a.k.a. kids, or if there's a job that maybe if you were, you know, if you were doing freelance and, you know, your income was very commission based, like anything that has a ton of variables is where I start to lean more to the six month side of the three to six months range. But where you are single, very steady job, consistent income, you know, what's coming in, you're able to plan.

I mean, I would be comfortable. Yeah. With you more in the three, three month range for sure. Okay. That's what I was thinking too. I just wanted to make sure that I would say to you, I mean, whatever feels good to you, because for some people they're like, Nope, I really want that like five months, or I just want to have that number. Cause it feels great. Like whatever makes you sleep at night and feel better do that. But from a mathematical life standpoint, you could totally do the three month and be great. Like whatever makes you sleep at night and feel better. Okay, do that. But from a mathematical life standpoint, you could totally do the three month and be great. And then the other question you had, yeah, we get this one too a lot because it and this one ranges for people, everyone kind of has a different opinion on it, depending on honestly, probably your personality.

So like for Winston and I, I just took our standard operating budget for what we spend, which included some luxury things, right? So subscriptions, and it includes us out going out to eat, it includes our date nights, it includes kids sports, like, it's, it's basically our life, basically month to month. And we use that number and did basically six months of that. other people said no i'm gonna do a bare bones budget that if something really happens and i lost a job i didn't get income i could cut a bunch of stuff and still be okay with my four walls and maybe a few other things so their number was smaller so it's what again wherever you're comfortable at that number um is where you would go so i i liked to think if if crap hit the fan and something

happens i still want to keep my life as consistent as possible if i can i mean obviously naturally you would probably pull back anyways but i just like to use that number for yeah for the math sake um but for some people abby yeah they're like oh no i don't i we would cut out we would cut everything which you may do anyways but and and a smaller number for that to be your emergency fund. Does that help? Yeah, I wasn't sure if it was selfish of me to include my entertainment budget and my gym membership. I wasn't sure if that was like, oh, you shouldn't include that stuff

in what you would consider monthly expenses. But I like what you said with you would want your life to be as consistent as possible. And again, the truth is if something really bad happened, you probably would cut some of that just as a person of, you know, just as a human being to be like, I will cut back naturally,

but I just like having that bigger number just cause it's just that extra cushion. I don't know. Yep. Yeah. And I rent right now, so I don't like, I don't have any, like, something the hot water heater is going to go or something like that.

It's really just my car, and if I was going to lose my job, like, how would I pay? But I'm not losing my job anytime soon. Yeah, I think that's great. Good for you. Good job, Abby. Well done. Way to go.

So fun. Thank you so much for calling. I love that call. Let's go to Ryan next, who joins us in Raleigh, North Carolina. Ryan, how can we help? Hey, Ken and Rachel. Thanks for having me. I have a couple questions. Me and my wife are going to be building our first home soon by the end of the year. And we are considering doing a first lien key lock instead of the traditional mortgage. Why? You know, just wanted to,

because, you know, it would give us the ability to pay it down and, you know, five to seven years, maybe, if we can be aggressive and putting all of our finances towards it. And I just think it would be, you know, how would you do that? Walk me, walk me through that. So basically, and my dad kind of got me on this because he refinanced several of his properties that he had at 3% into, you know, he locked and, uh, we would just be putting like all of our direct deposits into the home's value to pay that down aggressively. But why do you need a first lien HELOC to do that? Well, you tell me. Why would that not? Well, a first lien HELOC is taking equity out of your home and borrowing

against your house. The first lien HELOC, there's, I mean, I guess unless you put down a down payment that you're taking the HELOC out of the front end, not the back end or something. I don't know. Let me just tell you this, Ryan. HELOCs to me equal risk. You're basically borrowing against your house. And if something were to happen, you guys are going to lose your house if you can't pay it so

in my opinion well i guess you could do that with a mortgage but like mortgage though yeah well wait a second you're going to get a fixed mortgage versus a heloc is a variable rate are you familiar with that yeah absolutely but uh but what you know if we're if we're able to put all of our money into the home, you know, because we have no, if we're putting extra. How much money do you guys have to put down on a mortgage? Are you doing a building loan? Are you doing a construction loan? Construction loan, yep. How much will that be for? $350,000 is going to be the full loan value, but we have $135,000 in cash.

So yeah, you're basically borrowing against that, Ryan. Here's the deal, Ryan. You don't even understand why you're doing it. When I challenged you on it and said, why wouldn't you just put all of your money into paying off the house through a traditional mortgage? Yeah, towards the principal. And you went, I don't know, why would I? So I appreciate your dad's influence on your life. He's a good dude. But you don't even understand it. You can't even explain it to me. So you could pay the house off in seven years, then pay it off in seven years. I don't know why you need to borrow against yourself. It just seems like you're doing some crazy math gymnastics or your dad is, and you

don't even understand it. So the advice we give to people is to put a big chunk down in a 15-year mortgage and pay it off after you've taken care of all the other debt. In your situation, you guys have no debt but the house. So put a big down payment down and pay it off in a 15-year mortgage, and you're going to be free, and you're not doing any gymnastics. But that's what we teach. But if you don't understand this other option that you're bringing to us, we would tell you don't do anything that you don't understand. Do you understand the first lien HELOC versus a traditional HELOC,

what the difference is? Yeah. I mean traditional you're borrowing against your home's equity but this first lien we won't have a mortgage so we'll be able to put you know all of our income into the house and how it operates is we're able to take you know equity out for to pay our groceries no no, that's a terrible idea. Ryan, no, no. No, because if you lose your job, Ryan, then it's like, oh my gosh, you can't pay for your living.

You can pay for nothing. It's like, and then you're risking your own house at that point because you're borrowing against the equity and then it's not worth what it was worth. So that's a messy game. I would not do that. Do not play that.

But, hey, that's our take. I think you're going to do what you want to do. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman.

Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. Let's go to Preston who joins us now in Dallas, Texas. Preston, how can we help? Hey, how's it going, Ken? Thank you all for having me this morning. Sure. You know I'm a married guy with three kids. We got a good income of about $185,000, $190,000 a year, but it seems like we are

hemorrhaging money through our miscellaneous budget item and our food item. You know, we've got one car loan. We've got about $12,000 left on that. I've got some medical debt. We had a child this year, so we've got about $6,000 there. And then we've got just some student loans left over that amount to about $4,500. And then a mortgage that's about $200,000 left. So total debt is about $222,000. We make, you know, $185,000, $190,000. And it feels like at the end of the month, we just have nothing left. I really just kind of wanted to get some insight on what should a family spend, you know, monthly in a miscellaneous item, maybe in the food budget, but we're just spending pretty much what we earn.

And, you know, we've gone up in salaries over the last five years tremendously. We've doubled what we make, but we're still spending everything we make. And so I cannot figure out how to get over that hump. Yeah, it's the classic lifestyle creep, right? It's just a little bit here and there. And over time, that starts to become your norm. And then you just add a little bit more, add a little bit more, and then you look up and you're exactly, yeah, what you're saying.

President, are you guys doing a very detailed budget? Very detailed. I am in accounting, which is kind of ironic, but I'm not good at accounting my own expenses. But, you know, we set a food budget of, let's say, $1,500 to $2,000 a month. And then you sit there and go, hey, we just spent $3,000 on food. And you sit there and go, how are we doing that? Well, as George would like to not hear, we eat out all the dang time. Yeah, that's it. That's it. I mean, yeah.

Let's just let's go out T2T here. I know. And we all know that we're going to spend way more there than we do at home. But it's really just frustrating to be. Well, there's no. That's what's hard about this, Preston, is with personal finance, we always say it's 80% behavior, it's 20% head knowledge. So you have the head knowledge of the numbers down with the budget of here's what we're going to do, but then you guys are not living on the plan that you've created. You're going over $1,000 in food. You're throwing a few hundred bucks here or there

throughout the month on all this other stuff. And so when you realize that it's more of a discipline problem with you guys and the choices that you're making in everyday expenses, it is. It's sucking the life out of y'all. What I would do, Preston, I would challenge you guys to say, and you know what? If you hold on the line, I'm going to give you the premium version of EveryDollar because I think EveryDollar is one of the most helpful budgeting tools because it's going to be able

to connect to your bank and you're going to be able to really be able to see in the way they do the paycheck planning and everything. It's a really well, easy thing to see. And your wife can have the same login. So you guys both have the app on your phone. And I would practice, Preston, acting like you guys make $80,000. Okay. Act like you're making $80,000

and do a budget off of that and just see what happens. Say, okay, then that means we have to way cut back here. That means these, you know, 18 subscriptions we're paying for, we can't do that. That means maybe the kids that are doing the fun little gym classes

every two days a week, they're not gonna do that anymore. Like you will have to cut back because I want you to take that 80 grand or more, quote unquote, I'm kind of just using a random number, but I want you paying off the student loan, the car loan. I mean, all these loans that you guys have besides your mortgage, you guys could get this knocked out so quickly. And what I love about this, we always just call it gazelle intense because it is deep sacrifice. You are running like your hair's on fire and it's

like it is scorched earth. It's like we're doing nothing. We're doing nothing and we're cutting back. And so that means maybe even cutting back more than 80. I was just saying as a fun mathematical game on the budget, just look to see what you would cut, start there. And then I would trim back as much as you guys can, Preston, because I want you guys to feel progress with your money. And it feels like you're spinning your wheels. You got all this debt hanging around,

you're living still paycheck to paycheck. And there's been no progress. And so in order to get these wins, like there's some stuff in lifestyle that you will cut and it'll hurt. It will not be fun. And I know with a new baby, it's like you guys are all exhausted. I get it. But this is the time to do it, to buckle down and say it's now or never. It's for a short period of time because then when all that's gone, Preston, I mean, how much is going out in payments for this debt per month besides your mortgage? Do you have that? How much is going out just to debt?

I do. So for our medical debt, we actually, we've got a high deductible insurance plan. So we've got an HSA that I've got that set up to wipe that out in a year to where that doesn't hang around. So that's automatically off the top. And then we've got my wife's car loan that we pay about $2,500 a month on it.

Holy crap. What kind of car is it? We're taking some chunks at this. Oh, you're paying extra. You're paying extra. Oh, okay. Payment's only $500. Okay, okay, okay.

Payment's only $500. Okay. But I think we've got more in the budget. But, you know, we just, once we get to the end of the month to make an extra payment, it's not there. And it's just super frustrating. Yeah, I mean, it's because you're living like you're making $1.90 and spending everything. Yeah, so let's just look at this. What's the smallest debt that you have?

That'd be the student loans. You know, we've got three of them for the Sally May loans, but they total about $4,500. Okay, so instead of focusing on the $12,000 car loan, focus on the student loan and go ahead and just get that knocked out. So what's the payment? What's the minimum payment on the student loan right now, the three of them together, if they're all a bunch? And that's the bad deal is y'all know they're in forbearance so we haven't even been paying on them we've been just chunking at her her car loan and i know that's not what baby step two is uh for that gazelle intensity okay here's a point i'm trying to make if you stay with this if you stay with this and you work this plan you guys cut first of all you need to stop eating out like no more. You guys got to stop. You got to get everybody on board. Eat turkey sandwiches at night. Do

eggs and bacon for dinner. I mean, you can do cheap meals for a season. It's not forever. You're an accountant. Your issue is not the numbers. The issue is the behavior. And if you guys try it for one month and go, you know what, we're all in. We're not going to eat out one time at all, just to see how much money you can save extra. And the point is we knock out the student loans, then we knock out the car pay, and all of a sudden you've got more margin than you realize. Here's the, I know you're discouraged, but you've got more margin in that budget than you realize. But you've got to change your spending habits. And if you do that, and if we can get some extra income, we sell some stuff in this debt snowball, whatever we got, we can find margin pretty quickly.

As detailed as you are, grasping the numbers, you and your wife have got to sit down and go, if we do this, and then we do this, and we do this like crazy for the next six, 12 months, here's how much progress we'll make. And then all of a sudden you go, oh, this is doable. I think you're just discouraged right now. And Preston, I'll add on that for Ken go oh this is doable I think you're just discouraged right now and Preston with with I'll add on that for Ken because this is always helpful for me whenever we're doing a big goal so whether for you it's getting out of debt or you know it's saving up for something look at the time frame run the numbers like what we're saying and just know

and say okay we are confident you know it's July right now so we are confident you know by dang Christmas we're gonna be we're gonna do it from now till christmas it's just it's go time i mean or whatever the the date is but have that date because that gives you the the light at the end of the tunnel that you're not gonna like live in this world forever and ever amen you can actually enjoy what you're working but you're not enjoying your money now because again i think so much of it is this debt and so much of it is that lifestyle. Because once you guys pay this off, do you have any savings at all, Preston? Do you guys have cash in the bank?

Yeah, we have some, but not enough to cover any of it. How much? We've got our emergency fund just to start our emergency fund. Okay, so you've got $1,000. That's where you're at. Yeah. Can you sell your wife's car? We're running out of time, but, I mean, you've got to look at everything, man.

Selling cars, everything, you know? You've got to reduce your monthly payments and increase your income. So for you, my friend, I know you're an accountant, but there's a lot of gig work right now for accountants. I'd be working 60, 80 hours a week doing accounting work because you can get paid very well for accountants. I'd be working 60, 80 hours a week doing accounting work because you can get paid very well for freelance work. Income goes up, expenses go down. That's how quick. Like get after it. And then you'll see some breathing room and then you realize, okay, we can stay the course.

Thanks for the call. You'll get there, Preston. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz. Thrilled that you are with us this hour. Our scripture of the day comes from Hebrews 6.11. We want each of you to show the same diligence to the very end so that what you hope for may be fully realized. Our quote today from Arnold Palmer.

For some of you, you just think that's a beverage. He was a golfer. He was a man, a great golfer, one of the greatest golfers of all time. The road to success is always under construction. Love that. Yeah, feels like every road in America is as well. Well, that's a separate issue. Today's question of the day is sponsored by Neighborly, your hub for home services to

repair, maintain, or improve your home. Researching dozens of providers is a thing of the past. Neighborly is all you need to remember for a nationwide network of local home service pros. Visit neighborly.com to find help near you. And today's question comes from Sarah in New Mexico. What are some things that you do to make fun memories as a family without spending money or going really cheap? That's good. I actually have one after I'm done. You're the expert on all that stuff.

Go, Ken. What's yours? I've got teenagers now. Yes. Game night. That was going to be mine. Ours is Jenga right now. Board games has been great. We introduced the oldest, Ty. You know Ty. He's very cynical and we kind of forced it. We're like, this is happening. Like, you can go out with your friends. Yes. But we're going to do this. And we taught him how to play Clue, the classic, you know, crime caper. Was it Colonel Mustard in

the kitchen with the candlestick? Yes. And he just had the worst attitude about it. And about 20 minutes in, guess who was the most enthusiastic? It was Ty. So, you know, the classic board games is really fun, and that costs zero money. And again, I'm talking teenagers now. Great memories. When they were little, I will tell you, going to local and state parks, feeding ducks, playground time, that costs you zero money. Yep.

And as a parent, you're remembering all those things. So those are two that stick out to me. Yes. Oh, I love that. Yeah. I was going to say game night because my kids, they're old enough now to do like the memory game. Oh, love the memory game. Jingle, that kind of stuff.

But yeah, I'd say that. I mean, we do stuff around our neighborhood. I'm like, you know, we have a pool, a community pool in our neighborhood. I don't know, everyone does. But for us, I'm like, that's a night. I mean, you're paying the HOA fee for it, I guess. You might as well. Right.

But using that, we do a lot of walks. The girls will scooter, bike. And Charles is old enough now, no stroller. So we'll do night walks. We'll do stuff in the driveway. I'll go to Big Lots and get just some cheap summer stuff, sidewalk chalk, badminton stuff. I mean, just really cheap things.

And they love it. It's amazing how much, and I know the teenagers are the same way, Ken, how much they just want to be with you. And even this morning as I was getting ready and coming here, and Charles was like, Mommy, look at me, look at me. And I realized I had been on my phone doing stuff. And I was like, oh, yeah. And so I'm like, they just want you.

And so, yes, is Disney World fun? It's all like extravagant stuff. Sure, absolutely. But man, the quality of time that your kids wants you don't have to do it and do a puzzle like whatever it is but it's it's amazing there's another one they want that quality time here's a cheap one all right uh and this comes from the lower middle class coleman family when we were growing up my dad wouldn't buy the wet banana or the slip and slide whatever it was called back then so he went and got a big sheet tarp

like a tarp yeah and we he just got the garden hose out oh yeah and that's in the backyard one of the most fun memories i've ever had we used to do it all the time it cost you no money other than a little of the water bill yep but it's a great memory and everybody's slipping and falling and if you get you know the grandparents out there and they bust it the kids love that that's kind of fun got to be careful though we don't want hip replacements. Yeah, we don't want medical expenses after this. So be careful.

But the old homemade slip and slide, you know, that's always great fun. Garden hose and some cheap plastic. Yes, and I think just getting out and doing stuff. We have friends and they have kind of like a farm-esque setup. And my kids would stay out in their backyard with their chicken coop, everything for hours really hours love it are you doing the chicken coop uh they're in the fancy no we're not but i'm not against it yeah i i'm we have a big garden i'm all for it i just want to get the

eggs from somebody else i don't want the mess in the backyard i know you know my problem would be the rooster at five in the morning you don't have have to have the rooster. I know you don't have to, but that's kind of traditional. You kind of want to do the whole thing, don't you? Well, I'm like a farm. No. You don't want to do the rooster? No. Just the layers. Just give us, yeah, just give me the eggs. Just the chickens. I'm just going for the eggs. All right. I get it. I thought I would do the whole thing. I get it. I get it. You don't need the rooster. I understand. I'm going to get all kinds of comments about that. But anyway, nonetheless, I think it's kind of fun to have him walking around. It is true. I get it. I get it. Totally. I digress. Zach is on the line in Alberta, Canada. Zach, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call today. You bet. What's up? So I'm a heavy equipment operator for a commercial construction company that's had some really great steady growth. And they pay me well to operate equipment. I kind of gross around $80,000 to $85,000 a year working for these guys. And I just had a conversation here earlier and basically they wanted to offer me a foreman position promotion, which is a job I've done before, but, you know, it's great. It's just, there's a lot of added stress and time constraints surrounding your job versus operating the gear. The second part to this question is I have a side hustle that's kind of a passion slash hobby. I build and repair guitars and

that's really great. It kind of gives me an income around $500 to $1,200 a month and I just continue to kind of circle and cycle that back into that hobby so I can buy more tools, more equipment, that kind of stuff. And so I guess the question that I have today is, you know, if I go for this promotion, I'm going to get faster through baby step two. Um, but I'm going to take away from my side hustle, which is a passion. So I guess I'm kind of caught here cause I, you know, my wife and I have been committed to the plan. We've paid $60,000 in consumer debt in the last 12 months. Um, so we're, we're pushing hard and we want to continue to push hard, but I guess we're kind of at a crossroads here where I might have to stop and hang up this

side hustle that I love doing. How much debt do you guys have left? So we have $27,540 and change left. All right, so here's the deal. I can hear in your voice, you do not want to be a foreman. Is this true? Yeah, I had a real bad run with the last time that I did it. Good. No need to explain. No need to explain. You don't want to do it.

I could tell. I could hear it all over you. And you really, really love this guitar side hustle. And the fact of the matter is, if you didn't keep pouring the money back into it for the tools and you did what you did to get to this point, you could get out of debt even faster. I'd stop investing in the guitar business and any money I made from the guitar business, I'd put it into the debt snowball and you can get out faster. I would say no to the promotion and just tell them, you know what, I don't want to be in

leadership. I didn't have a good experience before and I'm really happy operating the machinery. That's a good $80,000 base that'll keep you stable. And then eventually, if you build the side hustle up to where you're making $80,000, you step into that. But I think the answer is no to being the foreman, and I would just stop reinvesting the guitar side hustle money. I'd put that in the debt snowball, and you're out of debt even faster. True? Yeah.

Yeah, no, that's a great point. But hey, that's what I think I'm hearing. How do you feel? Yeah, did that feel like a, that felt good when Ken said that and gave you permission to stay where you are? Yeah, it does feel good. I think that where my brain goes is, you know, I was in, we'll call it two years ago when I was a foreman, and I was amassing all this consumer debt because

my wife's a saint, and it wasn't her, it was definitely me. And I just think back to how I had vowed to really put effort into dealing with this debt, but also not just giving up on growing a dream on behalf of my kids because the economy is getting crazy. Zach, you're trying to talk yourself into that this is a good idea. I think you feel guilty for not taking a promotion. That's what I think. Yeah, I think that I do.

But, Zach, you shouldn't feel guilty. You shouldn't feel guilty at all. You've done the hard work. You don't owe your wife or anybody taking a job that you're going to be miserable in just because you said you'd do everything you can. Go fix more guitars. Go get a side hustle over there if you want to do more, but don't take this promotion.

You're going to end up regretting it, I promise. You're fine. You're going to be out of debt before you know it. Do exactly what I said before, and I think you're going to feel better, and you're going to have a better relationship. Everything's going to be better, my friend. You're going to be out of debt, so don't take this promotion. Rachel Cruz, great hour. Thanks for hanging out. Love it. Thanks, Ken. As always, Austin, our fearless leader in the crew behind the glass, thank you all. And you, America, thanks for listening. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, it's Ken. If you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money journey, we have a weekly newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsey way. Go to ramsaysolutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter. Again, that's ramsaysolutions.com to sign up for our weekly newsletter.