The Ramsey Show - App - Don’t Borrow From Your Future To Keep You Afloat Today (Hour 2)

Episode Date: October 20, 2022

Dr. John Delony & Rachel Cruze discuss: Planning for home upgrades, Pausing investing to pay off the house, Coming to grips with an emotional purchase, Pulling from a 401(k) to pay off a home. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, what's up? It's the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your money, your life, your relationships, your work, your mental health, all of it. 888-825-5225. Whatever's going on in your life, we'll walk alongside you.

Help you figure out the next right thing to do. That's what we're going to do. 888-825-5225. I'm John Deloney, joined here by Rachel Cruz, an extraordinary human being and easily the most brilliant person at the table. And we're taking your calls on by far everything, everything. All right, let's go out to Hannah in Frederick, Maryland.

What's up, Hannah? Hello. It's a privilege to talk to you guys. I've been growing up with all of the Ramsey, everything my whole life. So it's just been, it's an honor to talk to you both. Well, it's an honor to talk to you. Thank you so, so much.

What's up? Awesome. So my husband and I are on baby steps four and six, and we are just trying to figure out how best to prioritize different house upgrades that we want to do. Um, like maybe we want to add a garage, upgrade the kitchen, upgrade the HVAC, do other things to it. And we just don't know the best way to go about doing our list of things we want to do. So I was just looking for advice on that. Yeah.

Do you guys have, do you have a budget? Do you have money saved? Do you know what you're going to be working with financially? Yeah. So we budget every month. We make, on the lower months, we make about eight grand on a good month. Cause my husband also gets part commission. We go to about 11 grand. So on average we have about 1400 to two grand or a little more extra to put toward whatever project we want to do. Okay. And how much do you guys have saved now?

Right now we have about, yep, we have 2,900 saved. Okay. Awesome. Well, when you're asking about renovations, I mean, this is a large range, right? You could do, hey, I'm going to just paint the kitchen cabinets, put some new hardware, maybe get some new appliances. I had somebody come give me a quote to do all the siding the other day. It's very expensive, right? So it ranges. So it's either like how much you want to DIY it, Hannah, and kind of just say, hey, yeah, here,

or versus we're going to be tearing out walls and changing our house floor plan. So all of that is going to vary in cost. So for you guys, I mean, it's not like you're working with $40,000, you know, to go in and do it. So it's going to probably have some DIY aspects to it. Does that sound reasonable? Like you feel like that's a good approach for part of it? Yeah, we definitely expect we'll be doing DIY to it already. We renovated our bathroom and DIY DIY the majority of it, too.

So we're definitely down to do that. We're just trying to figure out, like, because if we want to save up and do a garage, but then if, say, that's $50,000, it takes us a couple years to build up for that. But then that's $50,000 we could have put toward the house and reducing the payment on that. So we're just oh i see okay but we could also do that instead so yeah what's more important for you that's the stuff we're struggling on um because my husband would really like a garage but then we look at what gets higher in the priority list like say if the garage is 50 grand but that's also 50 grand we could have put toward the house so i guess the higher the payment the higher it gets for the project the more we're

leaning towards let's just get this house done and out of the way how much um how much you have left on the house to pay it off uh we have 265 000 okay um yeah i mean if i were yeah because i mean you're in the baby steps that like you can you guys can enjoy some of it right like this is yes we want you to pay off the house early for sure um but it's not like everything is gazelle intense towards paying off the house so i would probably leave the high ticket price items the garage things that are like pretty pricey i personally would probably say hey that's going to be a dream after we pay off the house but these smaller these smaller projects to kind of still scratch that itch of like we still kind of want to update the house um i would be okay with you doing like you said we just you know redid a bathroom

um i think that's great so if there's things in the kitchen that you want to kind of redo like i would pick maybe two or three projects that you guys can kind of cash flow in the next maybe two three years um while also knowing how much you can pay how quickly it's going to take to pay off the house because 265 000 yeah i mean that that's going to take years um for where you guys are at, which is totally fine. But I would want, if I was your husband and I wanted the $50,000 garage, and then you're telling me I want to pay off the house first, I need to know, like, when's the date that the house is going to be paid off? Like, give me a date. And honestly, too, Kelly, if it feels, or Hannah, I'm sorry, if it feels so far off,

like if you guys do the math and look at the house and be like, oh man, we're really going to want a garage sooner, then you guys, you can. Like continue to pay on the house extra, but if you wanted to keep setting some aside to save up for the garage, you can do that too. Okay. And Hannah, I'm trying to think of,

I want a garage too, okay? I have it all mapped out. It's going to have a secret tunnel that goes from the house, the whole thing. And when me and my wife sat down to discuss like, hey, we've got to get a new roof. That's a thing we had to do, right? This air conditioner is about to go out. That's a thing we had to do. And then there's the, what do you want to do?

I'd love to get a big long retaining wall here. I'd love to do these things here. And it was the line, I'll feel safer when the house is paid off, that then kicked my butt into gear. That was a line that my wife used that I don't think it was a line. I think that was very true. I'll feel safer before we start spending $100,000 on this and 50 on this if we don't have a mortgage. And so over the last 24 months, man, I'm taking every speaking gig. I'm traveling all over the country. It motivated me to go above and beyond.

And I think that conversation with your husband, what else can we be doing to accelerate this house payoff? And let's knock a year off this thing. We're going to be exhausted, but we're going to have no debt. And then we can build whatever we want to. Does that make sense? Yeah. No, make sense? Yeah. No, that makes perfect sense. And that's kind of the lines we were thinking and just trying to balance like paying off

the house quickly, but also still having fun and doing other projects in the meantime. It's just for us, the hard thing is finding that balance in this stage right now. Use real numbers and real data and go one project at a time. It's real easy. These things get very emotional and overwhelming in your head that yes, yes. Okay. So how much is the garden going to cost? It's going to cost 3000 bucks. Let's put that money aside and let's spend the next three months working on it. Right. Yeah. Totally. Project by project. Yes, for sure. For sure.

So scratch the itch where you can, so you don't feel like you have to do the $50,000 garage. Or again, maybe you run the numbers and it's like, let's put all this little ones aside and maybe we pay extra in the house. We pay it off five years early and can do the garage around the same, like whatever the thing is, the combination is. But I think when you don't have a house payment though, to John's point, Hannah, there's just this like, oh wow, we really aren't attached to anyone. Like nothing.

Or think about those $11,000 months. Suddenly your garage takes four months to save up for. Yeah. Or three months to save up for. That's right. It goes real, real fast. Yep. Yep.

You don't have a mortgage or you're not putting all of your money on top of that. 888-825-5225. This is the Ramsey Show. Give us a shout. We're here to talk. We'll be right back. សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី 888-825-5225. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, every time you hear someone do their debt-free scream on the show,

it's because at some point they said, I've had it. I'm not living like this anymore. When you get mad like that and do what they did, your life will change too. And right now, inflation and credit cards and car payments and all this, it's killing you. You've been led to believe that you're not in control of your money and that's wrong. You have to decide to control what you can control. And that's you, your thoughts and your actions. You have the power to change your future. And I know everyone is telling you that you can't do it. You can't do it. You can. And Financial Peace University will show you how. This course will teach you the proven step-by-step plan that's helped nearly 10 million people beat debt, master budgeting,

and build wealth. And you can do it too. Guys, stop letting debt and money stress control your life. Say, I've had it. Take back your control. Start Financial Peace University at ramsaysolutions.com slash FPU. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash FPU. Let's go out to Kelly in Columbus, Ohio. What's up, Kelly? Hi, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. You got it. What's up?

First of all, you're two of my favorites, so I'm kind of geeking right now. Tell Ken and George. And Dave. No, don't tell them. So here's my question in short. Is it wise, especially now with the market, to pause on retirement to pay off our mortgage early? And I can kind of give you the details. We currently have a lot invested. I have my balance in the mortgage. I just want to, like the last caller, I just want to get it done. I would have so much peace knowing our

mortgage is paid off so we can do so much more. Um, how much do you own the house? One 98 five. How long will that take you? So what I'm thinking is if we pause on, if we pause on the retirement, we could free up about $1,100 a month. We, my husband still wants to keep that 3% and just so they can continue matching it. Um, so if we free up 1100, um, a month. We, my husband still wants to keep that 3% and just so they can continue matching it. Um, so if we free up 1100, um,

and start paying that towards it, and then in about a year and a half, I'm going to be going full time. So I will be doubling my income. Um, so after that time we could put up to 2,500. So anywhere between 1100 or 2,500 is my goal in the next couple of years. I'm thinking we can have it paid off in five or six years.

If we're really intense, I wouldn't do in the next couple of years. I'm thinking we can have it paid off in five or six years if we're really intense. I wouldn't do it for five or six years. If you told me you're going to have it paid off in 18 months, maybe. Okay. And right now the stock market's on sale. Like this is a time to be putting money in because it's low. Right. Right.

Well, let me tell you that we have currently, last time we looked at it was January. We have a little over 400 000 in um investments um between you know roth ira ira and um and 401k and we're 45 and 46 so you're fine and if that changes no it doesn't in fact it would it causes me to tell you not to stop retirement. Like that would be even more of a reason to continue to put it in. And I hear you, Kelly. Like I know and I think one of the best things is that you're not going to be touching this money for another 20 years. And the world is going to look a whole lot different in about 15, 20, will look different in 15 and 20 years than it does now so i think

wringing your hands and being nervous about what the market's doing to long-term investments is doing you no good honestly and and i'm in this stuff every day we talk about money day in and day out and i don't i don't know i don't look i look once a year and i see what the market's doing on the news i mean i keep up with current events and what's happening but i'm not looking at my personal because it probably would make me sick you're're like, Oh God. But then I also know I still have confidence that it's going to come back. I mean, the market that you've invested in, it has a long-term track record. Okay. And so if you believe, which part of my conspiracy theory, heart, my, a little bit that like, it's all we're, we're, we're screwed and all of that. Right. But the logical side of me is like,

it's not, the economy is going to come back. We're going to have, you know, many more presidents and off. I mean, life is just going to look different. And so if I was 45, I would be putting money in retirement while, again, paying off the house. It's the baby steps going back to those basic principles. But yeah, Kelly, I would continue to do what you're doing. I would still fund 15% because I'm telling you, I think 60-year-old Kelly's going to have a paid-for house and a lot in retirement, and she's going to be happy.

She's going to be good. Yeah. Okay. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, Kelly. And I appreciate your enthusiasm to get the mortgage paid off. I hear that. Yeah, for sure. But the hard thing would be, hey, what if you guys looked up at 60

and thought, God, the house is paid off, we could retire, but we can't. We have to work another five years to make sure our nest egg is big enough when you could have been putting money away starting now. And that's what the market is like the compound interest and all of, I mean, the money's going to work for you. And that's what I love about investing. Even though I know it's down, I hear you. Um, but again, it's going to change long-term. Can I tell you something that happens in my life, Kelly, and maybe this is yours? Whenever I really, really want something, I am somehow able to find proof of what I want and why which is, I mean, it's what I got. The data shows that after a recession, a big one, a small one,

the market comes roaring back and it is roaring back up at a pretty significant clip. When I really, really want to do something with my house, I'm able to talk myself into. At some point, it all comes down. At some point, it all just implodes, right? And I can spin myself up and make withdrawing all of my money from the market the single most rational act I do in a day, right? And so I'm with Rachel.

I looked at it for the first time like in two or three years the other day. And my smart investor pro, he's a buddy of mine. And all I did is I looked at it and I was like, whoa. And I texted him and I was like, bang up job, you're doing the market. And he wrote me back.

I told you don't open that, right? Because I'm irrational. And so I've already made the decision, the long-term decision. I'm never going to, I'm not going to pull money out of this thing. And as my friend Todd, who's one of my best friends on the planet, and he's a finance guy, and he said, John, I don't have a meteorite plan. I don't have a plan for if the whole monetary system implodes and collapses. Because at that point, we're shooting our- You can come to my house with all my water and my canned goods.

Yes. Just kidding. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to storm Rachel's house and steal all her canned goods, right? So that's what we're doing. If that moment comes, I'm going to deal with that moment when it gets here. I'm going to spend most of my energy living in the present. I know. And that's right when I go down these rabbit trails. Then I do think, okay, literally if the dollar collapses and everything,

I'm not even going to be looking like here take take gold i need gold i'm gonna be like where's bread give me give me food and give me bottles of water like here's my we're all it's all here was my buddy said he goes we have a bad habit of looking at future calamity through our current he's like you're not going to be driving to work right and you're not going to be trading coffee and bullets for gas so you can get to your job in the air conditioning he's like you're going to be fighting your neighbor to not shoot your dog for food and i remember that was the line i was like oh yeah if it melts down it melts down so like could that

happen yep and here's the we not going to be having this discussion. It's going to be like survival of the fittest. That's right. I know. And I was made for that time. I'm ready for it, John. If I were to line up all of my closest friends and put them in order of who could survive that, you would not be at the top.

You would not be at the top. Seven days without lip gloss is gonna be a rough that is not the case that is that is not the case i will be the connector of the villages that i have to be like here you know franklin brentwood tennessee you're gonna bring them together we used to be able to get to each other in 15 minutes now we have to walk and i can be the connector. I will. Do you do a lot of connecting in your regular life? I talk a lot for my job.

I just feel like that's what I'm good at. Oh, I see. Because some on the internet would suggest we are highly divisive. But when it all goes down, we're going to flip the switch and Rachel's going to bring us together. That's awesome.

So Kelly, just keep on investing. That's the moral of the story. I mean, Kelly is all of us, right? All of us who's looking at the news, who's terrified of the state of things. And fear doesn't get you anywhere. You make bad decisions when you're fearful.

That's why I got a buddy that I call. That's why people call us, right? Like, hey, I'm about to make a dumb decision. And they go, whoo, don't do that. Because we don't make good decisions when we're scared. So thanks for trusting us, Kelly. Hate to be the one to burst out of debt is to sell the car. But it's important to sell the smart way by using CarWiser. CarWiser is a completely free service that gets you offers from all the top online dealerships instantly. Just enter your vehicle information and boom, you're ready to pick up an offer and get paid.

CarWiser saves you hours of time and hassle. So go to carwiser.com slash Ramsey. That's carwiser.com slash Ramsey. 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. Let's go out to Portland, Oregon, and talk to Travis. What's up, Travis? How you doing, sir and ma'am? First, I just want to thank you so much for your time,

and I have the utmost respect for you. So thank you guys very much for taking my question. You got it. Y'all got a big election happening right now, huh? Or coming up? Yeah, for sure. I try to stay away from the news because it gives me a headache. Dude, this is what mental wellness looks like.

Way to go, Travis. So what's up, brother? How can we help? Thank you. Thank you. So my wife and I are on baby step two. We started out with $102,639 in debt, and that was car loans, student loans, things like that. We're down to $27,000 now. Wow. Great job. Something happened in our family, and due to that, I made an emotional purchase, which I'm sure you guys have heard about before.

And I just kind of want to know what you guys think I should do from here. Sure. I've never personally made one of those, ever. Jeez. I think I did yesterday. What happened, man? So we have two beautiful daughters and a son. Um, and in, uh, 2020, in the beginning of 2020, uh, my wife was pregnant, uh, with our

first son and we began to have some pregnancy complications. She went on bed rest for six weeks and, uh, he was born in April of 2020, uh, and unfortunately did not survive. And it was the hardest thing my wife and I have ever gone through. Oh, I'm so sorry. Thank you. And I'll just get to the question part.

Due to that, it just kind of made me think about time not being guaranteed and memories not being guaranteed and one thing I really wanted to do with my son was camp and things like that. So I purchased a camper for $17,000. I'm sorry for being emotional.

Dude, you don't have to apologize to us. We're two parents too, man. We're emotional with you, brother. Take your time, man. That's pretty much my question. I'm not alone for $17,000. I'm kind of going backwards on my baby step.

When did you buy this camper, brother? Like three months ago. Okay. Oh, so just recently. Yeah. Okay. So you sat, you've been, y'all been picking up the pieces for the last 18 months or so? I'm sorry, say that again, sir? Y'all have been picking up the pieces and figuring out what's next

the past 18 months, two years. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, and we're doing financially great, you know, so that's not an issue. I just kind of was like being impatient, I guess, and kind of going back to like, I just don't know what's going to happen tomorrow,

and I'm kind of fearful of the future now. So that's why I did it now, because I just don't know what's going to happen. You know,. So that's why I did it now because I just don't know what's going to happen. That's kind of why I did it, my rationale. Yeah. So I'll say this. I don't blame you for a second. And I get your heart is good and your impulses, I get them. I would tell you this is one of the great benefits of a plan this is one of the great benefits of having people that you trust when we are deep in grief or we find ourselves telling ourselves stories about tomorrow man our bodies get spun up and we start trying to solve problems

in immediate ways that aren't always the wisest long-term. And so you've bought it. How long is it going to take you to pay it off? I could probably pay it off in a couple of years if I was hard at it or even less. We do okay financially. Okay. I just camped out the other night with my son in a tent. And so it sounds like you boxed yourself into a, it's going to be this or it's going to be nothing. If I don't do this now, I'm going to miss out on more time with my other two kids or my other three kids.

And you've created a narrative that somehow the lack of time you got to spend with the other child was your fault, you've created a narrative that it's all a vapor. And it is, but it's just not a vapor tomorrow. Be honest with me. Would you be more at peace with yourself if you sold this camper, you took a lump because you're going to lose a little money on it? Would you feel better getting back on track

yeah i think that'd be a i don't want to agree with you but you're probably right no i'm i'm asking you i'm not telling you this is what you should feel i'm asking you um i i i i impulse this is a shame to say this i i we have a battle the bands event here and the other day i was visiting a friend at a guitar shop and i impulse purchased a guitar that i for one night of 15 minutes right it was ridiculous and then i had to cash for it it was budget is fine but i feel guilty over that i'm like what are what are you doing, man? What a dummy. You know what I mean? And that's, that's just my self-talk to myself. Um, I would be more at peace if I didn't have that right now. The show would have been just fine without it. You get what I'm saying?

Yeah, I do. Travis, how much do you guys make a year? Uh, we're at 96 right now. You're at 96. Okay. The $27,000 in debt that you were talking about, does that include the 17,000 of the camper or is that in addition to? That's in addition to. That's my way of paying student loans from before. Okay. So you'll owe $44,000 if you keep the camper. It's not a significant – I mean, ideally you wouldn't take on the extra debt.

So if I were you, Travis, I would run some numbers and just see, okay, what if I did sell it today? What kind of hit do I take? How quickly would we be able to get out of debt with the other 27,000? I would run some scenarios, run a scenario where you sell it and how quickly you guys can get out of debt

and talk through that, kind of live in that moment if you can and say, okay, how would that feel? And then run another scenario where you keep it because it's not, you know, you make 96. It's not like it's a $80,000, you know, run a scenario where you pay it off, keep it and pay it off and see how long that takes you and talk to your wife and say, okay, how does that feel? So the goal for us on the show is to become debt-free as quickly as possible, not just for the financial sake,

even though there's a lot of benefits to that. When you keep your income, you're able to save more and give more and invest more. But there's an emotional piece to Travis to that, that when you don't owe anyone anything, John talks about this, there's a safety that happens even in your brain. Like you know I'm safe because I'm not attached to something. I don't owe someone something. And there's a level of peace and a level of rest you get when you don't, when you're not a slave to the lender, right? The borrower's slave to the lender is what Proverbs says. And there's truth to that. And so that's one of the benefits of getting out of debt. Yes, the financial piece is huge, but there's also an emotional piece. And you guys are going through a lot of emotional pieces in your life since losing your son. And so to me, there's

almost this burden that gets lifted off. It's one last thing I have to worry about as we continue to grieve what happened to us two years ago. So almost as a mom, I want the least amount attached to me on things that I don't really need in my life to just have the weights off of it does that make sense the lighter i can be in life that's what i'm looking for on that's completely on an emotional um sense and i'm not the dr junkin speaking if that's correct or not but like that's how i would feel i think so so talk through that with your wife you know what i mean like the camper you know love it hate it sure you you bought it maybe an emotional purchase give yourself grace that's okay that's okay like just just give yourself some some some grace because you guys have been walking through a lot of hard stuff but I think that

there is you know some decisions that could be made here in the next month to say hey what what can we do to get us further where we want to be and And so another thing to remember, Travis, too, is that this isn't the only camper, right? Like if you guys decided to sell it in four years, you can buy something awesome and continue it, you know? So just some things to think through. I don't want to give you just like a hard, fast thing. If I were you, I'd probably

sell it because I would want to be out of debt as quickly as possible. And that's, you know, and that's what we talk about on this show and you called us, so we're going to give you that. And Travis, let me tell you this. Yeah.

We often, as adults, we think of parenting as these big flag in the ground moments. What our kids talk about at our funerals is the way we made them feel every day when they got home from school. They remember the times we were being goofy in the car on the way to church every Sunday they might remember a trip here or there they might remember the funny camping thing but they'll remember dad always included us

in stuff and so don't think that your parenting that your memories are wrapped up in these big things. We've got to go to camp. We've got to go. Man, 10 out in the backyard a few nights. Your kids will remember that. We'll be right back. 888-825-5225 This is the Ramsey Show.

Let's talk for a minute about how much there is so much fear in the media right now. You turn on the TV, you open social media, you hang out with Rachel Cruz. It's everywhere. But here's the thing. There is still hope. It's still possible to get out of debt. And it's still possible. Hold your hats, boys and girls. It's still possible to build wealth right now. Our Building Wealth live events walk you through a simple but proven plan that will help you save money, build wealth, and make smart decisions in this bonkers economy. It is possible. Join me, Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Ken Coleman, and George Campbell for a night of hope and normalcy this spring. We'll be in Indianapolis on February 16th, in Austin, Texas, February 23rd, and in Anaheim on May 2nd. Tickets start at 39

bucks. And listen, our fall events sold out in days, so you don't want to wait. We've already met people here today in the lobby that have already bought their tickets for some of these shows. Visit RamseySolutions.com slash events to get your seats today. All right, let's go to Lisa in Newport, Washington. What's up, Lisa? Hi. I have a question about taking money out of 401k. My husband had a job for about 25 years, got laid off during COVID, got two years of school paid for. We were able to make it through the two years without going into debt. We only have a mortgage. We have about 40,000 of the emergency fund, but we want to pay off the house because now he got hired by his interning, but we're only making, we've been cut 40 to 50% of our income and we've adopted six kids.

So we're old, but we have a six, a seven and eight year old. So we still have a long way to go. But with money getting so tight, I'm getting a little concerned with, you know, paying or not losing our house. And we still have six kids to raise. We've already raised our older four. And so what do you suggest? Yeah, talk me through. Lisa, you said that your, was it your pay was cut in half? Your time for work was cut in half?

So he was laid off because of COVID. Yeah. And he was there probably 24, 25 years. And the company is closed. Okay. And so because of the layoff, they did pay for two years of school. And so he finished school in two years, and we were able to do that without any debt. Unemployment, we cinched our belt.

We know how to squeeze a penny. And so now we, the job market is probably about 60% of what we were making. And before, he had so much overtime that we don't have that anymore. Okay. What does he do, Lisa? Machinist. Okay. And what did he go to school for?

He actually got a higher degree in the machining because we're older, we're in our mid-50s. To start something new, he wanted to monopolize on his experience already. And machining was out there, but then he learned the computer part of it. But the skill he went to school and learned is worth 60, is worth half of what his skill was before he got educated? Right now, yeah. He had an internship and they hired him and they said,

well, this is all we can pay you. And so he wants to finish the year out with his commitment and then we need to start looking for a better job. Yes, because this sounds like a guy who got hit in the mouth by a company that he dedicated a quarter of his life to and that he gave everything to and then he found out the hard thing that millions and millions of people found out that he got up went to work one day and he found out oh this thing's a vapor it's gone i'm expendable and that has um the the psychological research suggests that that

is as damaging as losing a spouse is losing a family member um yeah and to come back and take whatever somebody says he's worth that is 60 here's the deal one is that 60 of what he was making but two it's not enough to keep his house afloat. Right? And so it's not tenable. And I know he wants to keep his commitment and he wants to do these things. Just doesn't, I don't know, man, it feels like a mess. Yeah. I mean, well, I mean, when you look at money, Lisa, it flows two ways, right? It flows in and it flows out. So those are the two ends of the equation that you can control. And the money money flowing in yeah is is almost cut in half like what you were saying and so i would i would question okay what else is out there with his

experience what he's done the line of work that he's been in i mean he's he he is marketable i understand it may not be exactly what he's been doing but i would look to see if there's any other job because at this point yeah you're you have to pay your bills, right? So bringing in that money. And the other side is the expenses. So do you guys have a lot of consumer debt? Where are you guys at financially? We have no debt other than just our mortgage. And luckily we had an emergency fund. Oh, $40,000, luckily we had emergency funds. Oh, 40,000, right, yes. And we still have, we still have that cash 40,000 emergency fund. I did take, it was at 50, but I took about 10 because I'm trying, my goal was to have the house paid off in 2024, but then two years hit us.

So I'm trying, now that he he is working i'm trying to at least i do a few things extra and i'll put some money or you know i'm trying to still punch down that principal because we owe 130 138 actually on the house okay and what's he making now with the lower salary um he's probably making around $50, $55. Okay. At times with overtime, we were actually up to about $100. Yeah. He might have to go work overtime at a second job.

Yeah. Yeah, well, we have really difficult, we adopted really difficult kids, and his presence is pretty necessary. I get that, but listen, Lisa, y'all have created a world that math can't support. Yeah. Y'all adopted six kids because y'all have hearts of gold. You're great human beings. And you've paid off your house like crazy.

You got yourself out of debt because y'all are disciplined and done hard work, and then life happened. But our house is not paid off yet i know but y'all are working really really hard down right and then he went and got educated to get an even better job and then went and took the first one he could get at half of what he was previously valued before he was educated and so and he worked a lot of overtime and now we want him at home here's what you have to something. Something's going to give. Something's going to have to give.

And Rachel and I have taken too many calls over the years where the thing that gave was the mortgage. They came and took your house. The thing that gave was somebody's health. And so at some point, we have to sit down and have a really hard conversation. I know you want to ride the year out. We can't afford for you to ride the year out. I really, really need you here,

but what I need more is the electric and gas not to get shut off. Yeah, I know, especially right now. You know what I mean? So I need you, you're going to have to get a second job, and you're 50-something years old. We didn't have this drawn up this way. This isn't how we drew it up.

This is when the house was going to be paid off. We're going to be living our life, and here we are. Right? We have to acknowledge and own reality before we move on. And also, Lisa, I don't want this to be your reality for the next seven years either. And so there has to be a change either with his full-time job or your situation.

I mean, if it's something as drastic as downsizing a home so that the bills can be manageable with his salary, like there has to be a give somewhere. And to answer your original question, no, don't borrow from your future to keep yourself afloat today. Have the hard life change. Don't, don't, don't, don't. If you pull money out right now

with this down as the market is, you are locking in forever those losses. Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. Would you take that emergency fund down to the original start over and baby steps and punch it into the morgue? I wouldn't, Lisa, just because I want to because it's not sustainable. Yeah. Once that money's gone, it's gone and you're and nothing else has changed. So other things need to change besides the emergency fund.

It's there. If you the safety net of, oh oh God, like we really can't make the house. The roof blows off. Yes. That we have it there. But I don't want that to be a bucket that you dip out of your lifestyle choices or your lifestyle expenses, I should say. So I would do whatever I can on that income and expenses side of the equation. Something has to give, like John said, because once that $40,000 runs out, what are you

going to do? Then you're in a big mess. So no, keep that safety net afloat and find other ways where you can cut or bring in more money. I'm sorry, Lisa, but you guys are doing incredible, incredible work though with these six kids. And you have to just live with math because it doesn't change. Thank you so much for loving your community. Thank you. Thank you. This is another hour of the books. We'll be right back on The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week?

A lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash show.