The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Chase Money, Chase Freedom

Episode Date: March 4, 2025

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, George Campbell, Ramsey Personality. Number one best-selling author is my co-host today. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Yeah, jump in, 888-825-5225. We'd love to talk to you.

Tonight, for those of you listening live through one methodology or another, we're on about 83 different platforms of different kinds with this show. But if you're able to listen on Tuesday for whatever, Tuesday evening we will be doing the Investing Essentials workshop tonight. George and I just came out of a rehearsal. This is about a two-hour event this evening and tomorrow evening. Tuesday

and Wednesday night. If you buy a VIP ticket, you have 30 days worth of replay. You can watch it over and over and over for 30 days. So no rush, no problem, whatever, but you do need to get your ticket if you want to watch this evening live. He and I will be doing investing tonight. Tomorrow night we'll be doing investing in real estate. And George is loving

this, bringing out your, I know you look very GQ on the surface, but underneath we know you're a true nerd. I love it. Just watching Dave unpack a formula, I don't know, GQ on the surface, but underneath we know you're a true nerd. I love it. Just watching Dave unpack a formula, I don't know, that's my new hobby, I guess. But it really is. It's stuff we've never talked about on this show, mostly because you thought it was too dry and boring. It's too nerdy. But then people went, no, no, no, Dave, we actually want to know, how do you select a mutual fund out of all the investment options?

We're going to cover that. It's too nerdy. How do you calculate the cash-on-cash return to know if the investment property is worth it? How do you do an internal rate of return on a piece of real estate? It's too nerdy, but I do it all because I also am a super nerd. So a couple of super nerds tagging up tonight, investing essentials virtual event. My pastor used to say a man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an opinion. I own about $600 million worth of real estate. I'm 64 years old.

I've got a lot of money in other investments as well. This is not something I wish I knew something about. It's I can't fix your car, but I can tell you how to do this because I have done this a lot. No theories here. Not theory. This is not a think tank. This is not your broke financial professor with an opinion.

So tonight, March 4th and 5th, we're going to be doing this. It's a two-hour each night. It's standalone. So it's four four four and a half hours worth of virtual event you go to ramsey solutions.com get your tickets uh we'll come into the top of the hour here bragging about that because it is tonight angela is with us in rochester new york hi angela what's up well hi i recently won a nice chunk of money in the lottery. Wow. How much did you win? I won $3 million.

Whoa! Yeah. Unfortunately, I, of course, didn't get anywhere near that. I got $997,000 after taxes. After taxes and lump sum. The $3 million is the total payout if you take it over 83 bazillion years and not count the taxes. Yeah. So you took it all

lump sum so you got a million bucks way to go yeah that's incredible i'm happy for you thank you i was too i just don't know what to do now um i've been meeting with a lot of different advisors but then i'm also reading about a possible market crash and i don't know what to do okay um i hope there's a market crash right before you put this money in yeah because it's because it's going to go straight up after that so i don't think there's going to be a market crash in other words let me tell you how much of my money i pulled out of the market in fear of a market crash precisely zero okay of fact, I'm steadily investing. Real estate and stock market both. Okay. There's a boom a-coming, baby.

Ride the wave. All right, now here's the thing. When you're meeting with those investors, how intimidated are you? I'm not intimidated. Well, I can't say that. I don't really understand at all. There you go. That's where I'm very lost at what to do.

So I've got a bunch i've got a bunch of gen z's in their 20s that work here we've got a whole bunch of digital products at ramsey i know nothing about it they work for me but they're smarter than me and i have no idea what they're talking about you know i'm talking about so i go into a room full i'm the other day and i'm like hey they're talking and they're using letters and all the stuff like they're in the military i have no idea what they're talking about i'm like hey guys um just humor the old guy who writes your check tell me what the flip is going on in this room explain like i'm five explain it till i understand it because you work here and work for me my name is on the building i'm not being mean about this

i'm just really curious what it is we do in this room so you so they spent about 30 minutes teaching me and with a good spirit and i had a good spirit of receptively listening and learning because i really did want to know what they were doing i'm always perpetually curious around here and that's what you're going to do these people work for you these investing advisors Meaning you can fire them at the drop of a hat if they're not good at explaining. Or if they make you feel insecure with their snotty approach. So you're looking for the heart of a teacher with anyone giving you advice. Because your job is not to hire someone else to do this for you. Your job is to hire someone to teach you to do it for yourself.

Okay. That way you won't lose the money that's my fear you're not going to lose it you're going to go slow and you're not going to put it in anything you don't understand okay and you remember everything that's written on the internet's true abraham lincoln said that yeah that's what my friends say if it's not on facebook it's not true Abraham Lincoln said that. Yeah. That's what my friends say. If it's not on Facebook, it's not true. Yeah. It doesn't happen, right? So stay off the Internet for financial advice. All right. Sit down and talk to old-seasoned people who will teach you.

And when you come away from the meeting, you feel two things, smarter and peaceful. If you don't have that sense in your spirit, if you don't feel more confident, smarter, and peaceful. If you don't have that sense in your spirit, if you don't feel more confident, smarter, and peaceful, you got the wrong people in your corner. That's what you're looking for. If you do that, you won't lose the money. Right, George? Do you think it's better to invest it

or just divide 250,000 of pound banks until I feel better? I put $3 million into the stock market last week okay 25 is what stock market went up last year what's 25 of three million right yeah what do you make angela what do you make from your job? 10% is $300,000, by the way. I'm actually retired.

I bring $62,000 in. I have a couple of defined benefit pension plans. Good. Yeah, and my husband makes about $110,000 a year. Okay. So if you put a million dollars in and it makes 20%, that's $200,000. if instead you put it into a savings account because you're scared and you don't learn and you make one percent you lost 200 000 that's a much better way of looking at it that's opportunity cost it's called opportunity cost you missed an opportunity

by not learning so learn learn learn learn learn get comfortable and don't invest in the stock market or in real estate. If you're wanting to do a short term play, you want to think I'm not going to touch this for five years. Once I put it in there. Okay. If you do that and then you just turn off the news, you'll be okay. But learn, learn, learn, learn, learn you and your husband, sit down with these advisors. And if you want some more to have the heart of a teacher, go to RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pros and find the ones in your area. Interview two or three.

Talk to tax people, real estate people, insurance people until they have the heart of a teacher. If they're snotting you, they drop their glasses down on the end of their nose and they have all the answers

and you're just the stupid little people who got lucky. You have a million dollars. They don't, so tell them to shut up. They're fired. This is The Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts, and you'll get ten different answers. Economic growth or a recession.

Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. With one unified business management suite,

there's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. This is the Ramsey show. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host. George, when you were a wee toddler, there was a fabulous comedian out named Steve Martin. Oh, I love Steve. And he had a whole bit

that said, you need to get a million dollars and not pay taxes. He said, how do you want to be a millionaire and not pay taxes? He said, the first thing you do is you get a million dollars it's good then you don't pay taxes now that was a funny it was a funny bit but um you know when i when i get a call from someone like our last caller before the break angela and she got a million dollars from the lottery i always think where does money come from where does wealth come from and there's a lot of places you can get money you can win the lottery you can have a rich uncle that dies and leave you a million dollars. You can be scuba diving in the Caribbean and find gold bars from a Spanish galleon that wrecked. It sounds personal.

Yeah, I mean, that could happen. I mean, people, you know, there's a lot. You could treasure hunt. You could do all kinds of things. Get a settlement check. Sell a business. Yeah, you could be in a car wreck. I mean, you could get a million dollars from a lot of places and become wealthy.

What we are in the business of, however, here is giving you a path that has a super high probability of working, not a super low probability of working, not a super low probability of working. Now, if you get a million dollars from a low probability, like not a chance it's happening again, like winning the lottery, we're going to celebrate with you because we were nice to Angela and we want to celebrate with her. But I don't want you folk out there to misunderstand that the lottery is a high probability of building wealth. As a matter of fact, statistically, it is a tax on poor people. Most people that play the lottery live in lower income zip codes.

In the state of Tennessee, we have this wonderful program where the lottery money is used to send people to college. The people that go to college in Tennessee using the lottery money are typically middle class and upper class kids going to college on lottery money that was paid by poor people playing the lottery in lower income zip codes who never used those scholarships. So it's a completely bogus, horrible system. Now, Angela benefited from it, and I'm not mad at her. We'll help her and celebrate with her that she became a millionaire with this but i want you folks to know here's the actual this is hilarious

to me but it's mathematically factual lightning twice during the one mile walk that's statistically wow then you are to buy the winning lottery ticket that's how bad this program sucks and people go i'll take my chances dave yeah i'll get i'll get struck by lightning twice i mean number of people that i mean really i, it's like something off of Instagram. But no. Okay, I want a high probability. I want something that works most of the time for average intelligence people because that's what I am. I don't want to have to be a genius.

I don't want to have to be lucky beyond statistical probability. I want something that works, and that's what we teach here so but if you were to come into wealth by one of these other weird means george and all the personality we will celebrate with you we love you if you have a rich uncle you're the one that did i always wonder who it was it was you because it wasn't me and it wasn't george no if i had one he didn't leave me any money i don't know where he is i might be the rich uncle but I'm not leaving the nephews anything they're all going to my kids no one's ever left you in their will no yeah my grandmother did I got five thousand dollars hey it's a tiny lottery yeah we were just married and I have no idea where that money went it's gone just poof

it just disappeared I blame Sharon like mist in the wind but that's the deal folks so anyway I just want you to know just because we celebrate with someone who had a good event does not mean that's an endorsement of the strategy of that methodology okay 12 times more likely to be struck by lightning twice in a one mile walk than you are statistically to buy a winning lottery ticket that's pretty low odds just saying all right uh samuel's with us in Los Angeles, California. Hi, Samuel. How are you? Good. Good morning, guys. Thank you for having me on the show. Our pleasure. How can we help you? Yeah, so my name is Samuel Barron. I'm 26 years old. I've been following your principles since I was a teenager, about 18, 19. Um, your advice on living debt free and investing

has helped me build a $5 million net worth at 26. Wow. Thank you. I have a big question. Um, and I'm really confused on, uh, what's next. Um, so I made my first million at 22. I invested all my profits I made. I still live in my mom's living room, and I eat McDonald's and Chipotle every single day, which isn't the best. But my question is, what's the meaning of life when the money game feels solved? Is it about starting a family or buying the dream home

that I've been looking at for the past eight years, or is it something deeper? Good for you. How old did you say you are, 25? 26. 26, cool. I appreciate you calling, dude. Thank you.

I'll take a stab at it. Number one, $5 million, the money game's not solved. You can screw this up in about 20 minutes and have nothing. I had $4 million worth of real estate when I was 26, and I went completely bankrupt by the time I was 30. So you can screw this up. It's not over. But you have done a wonderful job.

Congratulations. So, I mean, if you got $500 million, we'll talk about slowing down. But $5 million, no, you're not there yet. But what you're figuring out is that just stacking cash doesn't have meaning, and I'll go along with that for sure. Well done. And you've done a wonderful job of stacking cash. You're amazing.

Congratulations, sir. But what we figured out a long time ago, I met God on the way up. I got to know him on the way down when i lost everything samuel and what i've learned as a person of faith is is that true joy comes through serving not through getting giving not getting adding value not taking value and so um i think you'll have a level of happiness when you just go get you an apartment and a better diet. Yeah, I'm working on it. Yeah, no, I mean, really.

I mean, like by the end of the week, I want you in an apartment. You need to get out of your mother's living room. You're 26 years old. You got $5 million. What the flip are you doing at home? Go be a man. Here's the thing is that I bought a quadruplex in L.A. last year, but it's fully owner-occupied, so I couldn't.

That's fine. Go get an apartment. I didn't say you had to move into that. Well, yeah, I mean, you're right. Yeah, I am right. The whole reason why I've been working is I just want this house that I've been looking at for years and i and that's what i'm yeah but when you get that it's going to have the same exact feeling

it's just a stupid house every time you get a nice thing there's a better one and some goober on the internet will show it to you the algorithm when your social media feed will go man you should own 20 properties by the time you're 26 and so the goal post is always going to keep moving until you decide i want you to save up for that house too i don't mind that but dude i don't know what the flip you're doing to make money but you're doing a great job of handling the money but you're but you're what you're telling me is is that all of your effort and energy and psychology and spirituality has been aimed at one target, and that's money. And that's a pretty stupid target.

It's a good target, but it's not the all-encompassing target. So go have a life, too. I mean, I want you to go enjoy some meals with a beautiful woman called a date and go get you an apartment and, like, a life. Have you got a car? Yeah, I have a little. What is it? you a uh an apartment and like a life have you got a car yeah i have what is a different yeah so me and my girlfriend have been together since middle school and we've done all the uh why is she hanging out with you when you still live in your mother's living room i don't know i mean she tells me the same thing. That's right.

I hear it all the time. I love you, man. You're awesome. You are a great guy. You're amazing. Thank you so much for calling. Hey, man, really, go invest some of this in having a quality life, not just in investments. You got a flat tire right now.

You got the money part down. Let's focus on spiritual growth, physical health, social relationships, family. That's what's going to give you a lot more purpose on top of doing what Dave said and giving and serving. I was just a little bit younger than you when I landed in a good church. Changed my life. It taught me how to serve and there's more joy in serving and giving than there is in taking and adding and stacking cash. Go stack you some cash, but go have a life too, my man. It's time. Today's the day. Move out now. Like this week, Friday. Friday. That's your deadline. This is the Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever

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Brentwood, Tennessee 37027 George Campbell, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us America in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the Debt Free Stage. David is with us Hi David, how are you? I'm doing real well Good man. Where do you live? I live in Wildermar, south of Los Angeles

Cool. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. And all the way on the other side of the United States to do a debt-free scream, baby. Of course. I love it. How much did you pay off? $230,000. Wow. How long did this take you? Six years and four months. Wow. Good for you. Good for you. And what was your range of income during that time? Well, my income was about $200,000 a year. Cool. And what do you do for a living? I'm a salesman for a packaging company. Very good. Excellent, man. What kind of debt was this $230,000?

Well, it was my mortgage. And so I used my side job, which is real estate, to pay that off. You paid off your house? Yes. In California? Yes. No less. Well done, sir. Thank you.

Boom, boom, boom. I'm looking at weird people. A paid-for house just south of Los Angeles. What's this house worth? About $600,000. Way to go, man. How much have you got in your retirement nest egg? A little over a million. All right. So worth almost $2 million. How much have you got in your retirement nest egg? A little over a million.

All right. So worth almost $2 million. How old are you? 64. I love it, man. Congratulations. Thank you. Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop.

How's that feel? It feels great. It feels great. It's actually, since I paid it off in December, not to have a mortgage since January is just, it's awesome. It's just like, you feel like no weight on your shoulder. That's right. Nothing's being taken out.

Yeah, I love it. Very good. So what inspired you to try to do this six years ago at what, 58 years old? You said, I'm going to pay off my house fast. Well, what I did was I had like a PMI on my original mortgage. And so they wouldn't take it off. So I had to find another mortgage company to take the PMI off. And it was actually owed 270. So what I did was I had some money saved up from real estate. And when I refinanced, I actually wired the money to the new lender. So that dropped it from 270 to 230. And they were going like, well, why don't

you just take money out so that was my situation okay how'd you run into all this ramsey stuff uh years ago in church okay a program okay and so uh the snowball has always been in my mind okay and just decided i'm gonna knock this house out absolutely man that's so cool now you mentioned this side hustle of doing real estate that helped to pay it off. Yes. What were you doing? Well, I do a couple deals a year specializing in probate, and I just really liked it.

It was like a hobby, and that's really what helped me with the big chunks of change to pay it off. So you were finding deals out of estates that were good bargains and flipping them uh no not flipping just being the listing agent oh okay you're selling them helping the people solve the problem yeah calling the calling family and and sharing you know what my what i can do for them and and uh that's how i did it good for you wow that's neat so good commissions then yeah good commissions to be able to do that. And so that helped me a lot. Plus a great income. Absolutely.

Very, very cool. So who was your biggest cheerleader while you're doing all this? Pretty much just, it was me. I'm my own, well, one of the reasons I'm here is I'm doing this for my kids so I can be an example. Oh, okay. Very cool. How old are your kiddos? Let's see, 35, 33 uh i got one in the navy

he's 26 and then my youngest is uh 21 all right very good very good cool good for you well well it is a good example they can look over there and go look he saved money he paid off his house he's got a couple million dollars he's 64 years old he's not going to be calling us for food sigh of relief from the kids we don't have to take care of dad in his old age he's 64 years old he's not going to be calling us for food sigh of relief from the kids we don't have to take care of dad in his old age he's going to be just fine with his big old nest egg and paid for house that's great yeah well done sir i'm very proud of you thank you david very good very well done i appreciate you making the trip over here of course so what what made you decide i'm going all the way to nashville to do this why did that mean something well you

know the last uh six years i i knew that this is what I can do. I wanted to come here. I do it for my kids, but also, you know, the goal of being debt-free, and there's no other place to come except here. Yeah, we're the place that lets you celebrate it. That's right. That's for sure. Yeah. Well, good, man. Very cool. We're honored that we would be what you'd look, this stage is what you'd look forward to. Yes. Pretty neat. What's next for you? What are you dealing with the freed up mortgage payment? You know what? I'm going to actually fix my house. I didn't do anything to it. It needs flooring. It

needs a bunch of stuff. So I sacrificed that for getting this thing paid off. You put off the remodel. That's right. Yeah. Okay. We'll go cashflow pretty easily now. Yes, absolutely. remodel that's right yeah okay okay cash flow pretty easily now yes absolutely so when someone's listening and they're in their 50s and they say i've still got a quarter million dollars owed on a house what do you tell them the secret to getting out of debt is well i really think that

if you can get a job a side job that can really help you out and help you make those snowball payments slowly but surely it works. The whole thing reminds me of that book where the red fern grows. And that young man, it took him two years to save $40. And he bought two hounds. And that's how, you know, it goes quick, but it's just little steps. And I would say the side job is what really saved me yeah yeah well you weren't scared to work it propelled you that's for sure yes excellent job david good stuff

all right and what was the town called again uh wildemar wildemar wildemar california yes south of los angeles i'm learning my geography right now uh 230 000 paid off in six years and four months that's house and everything house is worth about 600 got about a million in the old retirement so getting bumping up towards two million dollar net worth at 64 years old congratulations david you did it we're proud of you hero count it down let's hear a debt-free scream debt free got right to the chase that's six years worth of waiting yeah i love it get to use your outdoor voice indoors that's the joy of the debt-free scream cathartic it is but you know what um so few people do it i mean he's one of the rare people out there

called millionaires, baby steps, millionaires. They follow the baby steps. They got out of debt, paid off their house, built their retirement, built their kids college in some cases, not his, but you know, you do all those things and then you look over there and there's a stinking pile of money and you're okay. Everything's going to be okay. And mainly because of the habits you built during that time, the character you built during that time, you get transformed in the process. Yeah, that patience and delayed gratification. I mean, you heard him saying, I've lived on less than I made.

I put off things and it's worth it. I mean, six years feels like a long time. It's going to happen. It's going to fly by. You're going to be 64 at one point or another. So do you want to have a paid for house or do you want to have lifestyle creep take over and you got a pile of debt going i hope i can retire one day that's normal in america yeah i mean last week we took calls from 71 year old who had no money and didn't know how she was going

to eat a guy who was in his mid-70s had no money didn't didn't know how he was going to eat, counting on social insecurity. You work your whole life, and I'm going to count on the government, which is well-known for its ability to handle money to take care of me. That's a dumb plan, but not David. David doesn't have a house payment. He's sitting on a lot. A million bucks in retirement. He's sitting on plenty of income and still enjoying his work

and even enjoying the side hustle, which is pretty lucrative, obviously. So very cool. Very well done. That's how you do it, folks. I mean, it doesn't happen accidentally, this winning thing. No. In our millionaire study, we found what average millionaire happens at 49 years old, and they pay off their house in 10.2 years. That's the average.

And so he probably fell right in there. He's a little faster on the mortgage payoff, but it's really not rocket science, and it's really not that impressive when you look at what was going on there. They just consistently put money away, consistently made extra mortgage payments. There was no rocket science. It is impressive because no one else does it, but it's not superhuman.

Yeah. It's not out of reach. You can just decide i'm gonna do that and that's all he did he was just a very decisive person he said i'm very low-key i'm just gonna do it yeah unassuming i'm just gonna i'm just gonna go win i'm gonna go win the super bowl and then i can scream i'm debt free on the ramsey solutions debt free stage worth it i love it and we got a gift for him two every dollar subscriptions that he can use or give to someone else to kickstart their journey.

Got those kids in their 30s. Hand that stuff off right there. Keep it going. Keep it going. He said he wanted to be an example for them. That's how this works. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys.

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Visit Y-Refi dot com slash Ramsey to see how they can help. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Shelby in Idaho. My husband and I have been married for 15 years and have two children. We're on baby steps four, five, and six. Last year, he was diagnosed with leukemia and underwent chemo and a bone marrow transplant. My husband's estranged sister was a perfect match, which probably saved his life. Now she has gotten herself deep in debt trying to flip houses and rent out Airbnbs and has started asking us for money. We already gave her several thousand dollars last month. We have heard from other relatives that she has started

asking them for large amounts as well. My husband feels obligated to give her money because she saved his life, and we know she'll be asking us again soon. How should we respond? Whew. There was no, if I give you bone marrow, you give me money contract here, nor was there any implied thing like that um uh what you do want to do is

help someone you love uh anytime you can help someone you love but not but no he's not he's not obligated to give her money to rearrange the deck chairs on the titanic because she's going down and if you give her $10,000 you're never it doesn't help she has bigger problems than $10,000 if you give her a thousand dollars it doesn't help you're rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic so what you've got to do is say okay she me. Now I'm going to help her. Now let's define what help is. What does sister really need? Well, she needs to stop doing this stupid butt stuff she's doing that's killing her.

Not you throw money into her LSD financial trip here. This is nuts. And so real help, real love is to sit down and say, Sister, you gave me the gift of life, and I'm going to give you a gift in return. The financial plan that you are on is going to bankrupt you, and I don't want to see you hurt. You need to stop this this you need to confront her stupidity that is an act of courage that is an act of love that is helping giving money giving a

drunk a drink giving a money to a cocaine addict so they can buy their cocaine is not love and this is financial cocaine this woman's on i'm deeply leveraged i'm losing money on airbnb oh shoot me you bought all you got all your dadgum real estate advice off a tiktok oh my god of course it's failing yeah you can't compare the health crisis that he went through and go hey the quid pro quo is i support financial misbehavior for the rest of my life that's not going to work so it's going to be a tough conversation well and you can't save her yeah and it might hurt the relationship unless you got a million dollars you want to bail her out completely of all these mortgages you can't save her because the track she's on is a bankruptcy track this vending machine is going to keep

eating your money now the only thing you can do is step in front of the train and say, I love you, stop the train. Because I love you, I'm going to tell you the truth. No one's telling you the truth. The emperor has no clothes. What you are doing is straight up stupid. You're going to bankrupt. And most people won't tell somebody that they supposedly love the

truth they just they'll do anything to keep from telling because it sounds like conflict but that's real love that's real help real love is when my children were little i made them brush their teeth so they have some later, even if they don't want to. Real love is you did some uncomfortable things if you were a Ramsey child growing up because we were not trying to raise great kids. We were trying to raise kids who became great adults. And so real love involved some things that were uncomfortable for their short term and comfortable for their long term,

like get your freaking homework done. In today's world, it means when you're at Papa Dave's, we're not big on screens. So grandpa and grandma, we want to like talk to you and look at your freaking little eyes, put that crap down, you know? Oh my God. And so god and so i mean yeah that that's real love does a four-year-old love that no they hate it and i want to go to papa dave's he won't let me play games for 73 hours on my ipad well then keep your little butt home because when you come to my house papa dave's rules at papa dave's house sorry that's the way that works. You've now entered my domain, little person. That's how it works. So we love you so much. We're going to do all kinds of wonderful things for your good, including hurt your little feelings. And that's what you need to do for your sister, buddy. Not give her money and support her stupidity in the name of you help

me with my bone marrow. It's wonderful that you all have this kind of relationship that she was willing to do that because that's a painful operation and it's a hard process, but it doesn't mean you support her destroying herself. You do quite the opposite if you really love her. That's tough love. No, darling, it's real love. It's not tough love. Tough love, I mean, what's the opposite love tough love i mean that what's what's the opposite of tough love enabling

entitlement no now you've got a choice you got to choose healthy conflict more money for the failed program we're not putting fuel in the titanic we need to we need to pull up alongside the dock and get some fuel because we're going to go sink this thing let's get the dinghies out not with my not with papa dave's money not doing it nope nope nope and not with your money stop it it's not real love guys you just love somebody you have to be kind and courageous and very clear that they have to stop doing the thing that is hurting them and you will support them in that process but you will not support them in the process of self-destruction because i love you because you did something sacrificial for me that's the very reason i will not participate in this delusional bullcrap

is that i mean people don't talk like that anymore, but we need them to. That's real freaking love. Dave is in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hi, Dave. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? So my wife and I are living in a house. We're renting from her parents, and we're thinking of buying the place from them.

But my wife is very nervous about the idea of getting into any sort of debt, and I'm not sure that we've actually saved up enough to do it. Are you debt-free? We are. We have always been. Good. How much money do you have saved? Well, we have our six-month emergency fund, and then on top of that we have about 12 grand okay and how expensive is this property we're actually in the process of trying to determine that oh come on give me a range honestly it could be anything from 90 to 145 okay we don't know it expensive, and $12,000 will get you into it.

No. What's your household income? I have been bringing home consistently about $64,000 a year, and I'm hoping to have that up above $80,000 this year. And she does not work outside the home? No. We have two kids under three. Cool.

Okay. She works, but just not outside the home. Okay. She does a lot of work, yeah. I can imagine. Oh, my gosh. The numbers all work. You could buy the house. We're $12,000 down on a 15-year fix.

No problemo. Okay. No reason not to do it. The only question I've got for you is if you were living in a one-bedroom apartment and this house came on the market would you be interested in it or are you just ending up here because it happens to be all in the family um no i would be i would be interested in it the only thing about it is that we're outgrowing the house and so well if you're in a one-bedroom apartment or two-bedroom apartment,

you've got two little kids or a three-bedroom, whatever, if you're renting somewhere you weren't emotionally attached to and had no relatives tied to it, would you come buy this house? If the answer is yes, then buy it. You're financially ready. What do you think, George? Yeah, and if you want to save up a little more and do this in six months, that's fine too.

You've just got to weigh it out and go, we got to get a little less house. But mortgage payment is probably going to be about $1,000. So it's reasonable for your income. Yeah, the numbers work on this. You can do this on a 15-year fixed, and you're fine. But just don't buy something because it's handy and the in-laws said do it. That's never a good reason. Buy it because it's something you would have bought anyway.

And if that's the case, then game on, baby. You're ready. You've done a good job. Man, that's cool. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author,

is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. He's also the co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruz, one of our top shows here on the Ramsey Network. So if you've not checked that out on YouTube or podcast, you should. They are way more fun than they should be allowed, and we even pay them for having that much fun. I can't believe I get paid to do this.

Goof-offs. Get on there and make yourselves really popular, and I pay you for the opportunity. You greenlit the show. I'm telling you. I actually did attend it finally. Yeah, it was great and had a lot of fun with you all. Yeah, you're one of our top performing episodes, so congrats.

No way. Yeah. No way. I don't think you beat Sharon Ramsey's episode. Nobody beats Sharon's. You can't touch that. If you do, you don't tell her. So I'm just saying.

Just let her. She gets to win all the time. That's the rule at our house. All right. Carly is in Washington, dc hey carly what's up hi um so my question is my mom just paid off my brother's credit card debt um which is about seventy thousand dollars what um yeah i know i know. And you would have thoughts on that. I do, too.

I begged her not to do it, but that's what happened. She's offering to give me the same amount of money to be fair, I guess, or equal. It's just the two siblings. And I'm conflicted about whether to take the money. Are there strings attached? Is it a loan? No, no, no, no. She just feels like...

Has she got a lot of money? She does. She can afford to do it. I think she feels guilty for giving him the money because I think she knows she shouldn't have. No, no, I think she just... I mean mean my grandmother my wife are the same way that whatever one of them gets the other one gets i mean it was no

guilt it's just all i accuse her of being a socialist but um but you know i don't think everything ought to be fair i think fair is where the cotton candy and the tilta whirl is but um but but my my grandmother and my wife are exactly the same way. They would definitely have done this, and no guilt at all. It's just like, that's what you're supposed to do. You do it for one, you do it for the other. It's real simple in their minds. Yeah.

And it was her idea? She came to you and said, hey, listen, you know what happened. I'd love to give you this money too? Yes, she came to me, yeah. Okay. I think you need to drop the guilt for taking it. Could you use $70,000 right now? Everybody could.

Send it to me. Right. I mean, we have three kids. Like, obviously, it would be helpful, but we're not like— You weren't asking for it. You're not needy. You're not begging. She has a million dollars or whatever, and if she gives away 140 of it at this age of life, it doesn't affect her, right?

Right. Correct. Here's my take. We're Southern Baptists over here. We call that blocking a blessing. You don't want to block a blessing. That's what you're doing right now by not allowing your mom to give you this money. Don't do that.

I didn't say no i just i just felt like conflicted about it because i because also my brother does not have a lot of um doesn't have a high earning potential like he just doesn't have that's not your fault the situation that i'm in with my husband and my kids it's not your fault okay you didn't cause any of this. You just showed up to the party in the DNA pool. Right. Right?

You're the prodigal son's brother, right? Prodigal son misbehaved. Dad comes home and says, hey, party at my house. Prodigal son's back. And now you get to come to the party, too, and enjoy the feast. I see no problem with this. Okay. Regardless of my opinion of going 70 grand to debt and then having to get out of jail free card the fact that she wants to give you this money has no bearing on what happened to that

yeah as long as there's no as long as she's not going to come over and start managing your business after this okay no strings attached she's good at she's good at boundaries, and you are too, right? Yes. Okay. Do you harbor resentment for your sibling? You know, a little bit, a little bit. There's, like, a lot of backstory here, yeah, a little bit. I mean, I love him, and I want to help him, and I feel like we've done everything we can, and he's just not taking the help, so it's hard.

Yeah. You're a good person. You are. You are. I agree. I agree. Now, the last thing is there's a little technical issue here. That's more than you can give an individual from an individual

without getting into gift tax. So she needs to investigate with her tax preparer or her estate planning attorney. Write this down, the Unified Estate Tax Credit. She needs to use up some of her federal exemption on these two gifts to keep from getting gift taxed at 55% it is right now. So you've got to file all the right forms with the IRS. Mom's got a little paperwork to do.

Her mom is going to get spanked by the IRS, and you don't want that. There's no need. One simple piece of paper will keep that from happening, all right? You can, I mean, an individual cannot give an individual $70,000 without gift tax and without utilizing something like the Unified Estate Tax Credit, using some of your federal estate tax exemption towards the gift. That's what it amounts to. So please make sure because mom may never file it, but someday they might audit her and then, oh, my goodness, we're going to have a $40,000 or $50,000 tax tax bill on these things and you just don't want that

it's not a good idea open phones here at 888-825-5225 you jump in we'll talk about your life and your money you know that's um last hour we had the uh question about the bone marrow and do I have to take care of my sisters? Do I have to give her money for misbehaving with money? Now, brother's misbehaving with money. Mom bails him out. And so there's a – I think a lot of the questions that people have and a lot of questions we get around here are around this idea of how do I be kind to

ridiculous extended family behaviors regarding money, asking for money, expecting money, being entitled to money, mom, you know, taking care of basically enabling a brother probably is what she's saying is she a little bit bitter about that i don't blame her um and then how do i how do i respond to her wanting to give me money so she feels better about herself which is kind of what she's doing probably yeah but the man there's a lot of stuff going on there so um money does not make the world go round. Try it again. Money does not make the world. It does not fix broken hearts. It does not make bad behavior become good behavior. It does not make lack of discipline look like discipline. Money doesn't fix those things.

When you pour money on messes, it makes the messes bigger. Magnifies. It doesn't make them smaller. It actually, it peels back any illusion that this was okay and makes it just really look stupid. Money does that. It magnifies good character and bad character, good behavior and bad behavior. But money in and of itself is not a salve. It doesn't fix everything for you. I'll be okay.

No, you won't. You'll still be mad. You'll still have a broken heart. You'll still, it's, that's not what it's for. This is the Ramsey Show. Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order? Yes, I have, George.

Sketchy and never trust them. And that's why we recommend Delete Me. They help with that. Yeah, they do. Delete Me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites. And it is an incredible service that everyone needs. And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data to bad guys.

And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids' names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find. That's right. And then once they remove your information, then they're going to send you a detailed report telling you where they found your information, when they removed it, how many hours they've saved you. I mean, it is incredible. So detailed and it's beautiful. I love these reports. So far, get this, they've reviewed 27,000 listings on my behalf, removed me from 240 data broker sites, and saved me 77 hours of time. It's incredible. Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts, weird emails, spam

calls, all of it. I love it. So you got to be sure to check them out. Ramsey fans get 20% off their annual plans. Just go to joindeleteeme.com slash Ramsey. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Super affordable. It's amazing. So again, that's joindeleteeme.com slash Ramsey. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Super affordable. It's amazing. So again, that's join delete me.com slash Ramsey. Make sure to check it out. You guys. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Michelle is in Cincinnati. Hi, Michelle. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hi, Dave. Thanks so much for taking my call. I am on Baby Step 2. I have been on Baby Step 2 for about a year. My conundrum is I have an opportunity to take a job in a really remote location, really far away from family. My kids are grown, but I was widowed about 25 years ago and raised

them all on my own. But the positive to all of this is that it comes with a lot of financial benefit to help out with student loan debt and such. And I'm kind of feeling guilt for wanting to do this. I'm going so far away from family for financial. So I'm kind of like, is it loving money that I want to do this for? No, you love freedom and you're wanting to be free of the debt. Right. That's not loving money. That's wanting to be free. That's a valid thing. That's a valid thing. So, you know, what I always look at on something like this is what's the return on the effort and what's the time frame? Because I could do anything for a short period of time.

I don't want to sign up for 10 years in Uganda or whatever it is, right? I mean, no thank you. Two years. Two years. Two years. And how much do you make now? How much would you make if you did this? And how fast will you get out of debt? Well, it would basically give roughly about $100,000 toward my student loan debt.

So it would cut it over half. And it would give me a lot of financial freedom after that two years like coming back and actually being able to spend time with grandkids and such so you you would be debt free after two years uh close to debt free yeah i would probably still have maybe about thirty thousand dollars in student loan debt but yeah and if you stay the course you're on now how long would it take to pay off the debt uh hopefully social Social Security will pay it off. Yikes. No, it won't either.

It won't. No, it won't. So, yeah. How old are you? I'm 53. So, you're saying you have no other real, I mean, how much student loan debt did you run up? Well, I ran up $120,000, but kicking the can down the road, as you say, um, it's close to about 165 right now. I use, yeah, I used it to supplement my income, uh, raising my kids. Uh,

when my husband died, my kids were young, we had nothing. Um, it was a suicide so we literally had nothing so it yeah so I stayed at home went to college late and I did it so that I was just a 25 years ago I was 20 this has been following you forever for a while yeah you can give up two years and be done yes and my kids are supportive. I mean, emotionally, the tradeoff is, okay, 25 years of hell, two years I can be rid of it. That's a good trade. The kids will be okay.

That is not you chasing money. It is you chasing freedom. Okay. I needed to hear that. I think from a Christian standpoint, that's what I hear. Yeah. It's not greed that's driving this. It's anything but. It's quite the opposite. You have had the hell beat out of you financially. Yeah.

And you're wanting to get this behind you. Yeah. I don't blame you. This is Band-Aid ripoff. Yeah, and I'm good with that. I mean, I was brought up by a Marine yeah and i'm good with that i mean i was brought up by a marine so i'm okay with that hard work i don't have a problem with that i just wanted to from a christian financial standpoint wanted to make sure yeah i don't i think it's quite the opposite from a christian financial standpoint i think this is time for my daughter my sister the widow to be free i think she's been under the thumb of the freaking government

long enough with these student loans beating her to death I would love for you to be free daughter awesome now um what are they going to pay at the remote location actual pay actual yeah actual actual pay it'll come out to be about $95,000 gross. Okay, and then they're going to pay off a bunch of your student loan debt, and they're probably providing housing because you're in the middle of nowhere or something like that? Housing is cheaper. I'm, like, going to be renting a room from somebody.

Okay. So, yeah. Okay. All right. So, and you have $120,000 left. Roughly, yes. And they're going to pay how much of that? Up to $100,000.

So it's $50,000 per year. Yeah. Okay, then you're making $95,000 and living in a no place, nowhere, one bedroom. You should be able to pay off the rest of it. I don't want you to come home with any debt. Right. That would be my hope. No, it's not a hope it's a plan well true i mean you're making 95 000 they're paying 100 of the 120 find the other 20 in two years kiddo be done with this thing absolutely rear view mirror look in the past go, that's where that needs to stay. Yeah. Do you have any other debt?

I have a credit card of like $8,000 from like I had teeth repaired this year or so. You got to stop using this stuff, okay? Yeah, yeah. You got to be clear. Your goal is freedom, 100% freedom. Cut the card up, look at your budget, and go, I'm not doing anything, and these student loans are going to die. This mess that I've lived through is going to be in my rearview mirror,

and I'm going to have a fresh start when I am 55 years young. Yeah. The encore. The curtain goes up, you take a bow bow and you take one more act in the play yeah it's going to be amazing because you're going to be first time you're going to be free because you have poured your life out for everyone else to take care of the kids and to make sure everybody's okay and then to pay these stinking bills and now you're going to go give up two years of your life to take care of these bills you're a strong cool woman i like you a lot you're amazing go get it done sister get it done but be a hundred percent done when you come home don't screw around with

this knock it out be done with it that's very cool i like. First time she's going to be debt-free in her adult life. Man. It's going to taste different. Ouch. Asher's in Grand Rapids. Hey, Asher, what's up? Hello. So I just wanted to, yeah, I was calling in because I have problems with, like, impulsive spending.

Me too. Yeah. Like, but it's, it's bad. Like I'm 20 years old. This is the first job that I've had and it's not making me much. It's only like 200 bucks a week, but I'm living with my parents. So it's not like I have to pay rent or anything like that. But, um, you in school?

I like, I've been, I've been working.. You in school? I've been working. Are you in school? It's only $100. I am not, no. Why are you only making $200? I'm only making $200 a week because I don't have a license because I got into it too late, and I'm still trying to get it now. I'm trying to get it now. Got into what too late, and I'm still trying to get it now. I'm trying to get it now.

Got into what too late? So there was a whole thing that happened with my Social Security card getting lost, and so I had to get that renewed, and that took like two years. You don't have to have a Social Security card to get a driver's license. You have to have a birth certificate, and you're in Grand Rapids. You can get a birth certificate. You have to have a birth certificate, and you're in Grand Rapids. You can get a birth certificate. Do your parents have your birth certificate? We do have it, but they told me I needed a Social Security card,

which we got it all figured out. Who told you that? I'm getting the people at the Social Security, the people at the... The Department of Motor Vehicles? Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about your spending here. You've got no money to spend.

So what are you spending your money on and how much? I'm getting $200 a week. I've been working maybe four and a half months now. I've been spending it all on, like, I've been really spending it all on online games and food, which is obviously not good. And I know it's not good, and I need to get out of this rut. I just haven't been able to figure out the best way to do that yet. Okay. Hang on a line. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. Read through the whole thing, especially the Spending is Self-Controlled chapter. I think it's going to help you get control of this because you're too young to be making dumb decisions, which is when we all made them.

But you can be set free of this. And go get your driver's license and work 40 hours a week, and it'll start to solve a lot of these problems. Now. Less video games, more work. Now. No excuses. This is The Ramsey Show. George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. On the debt-free

stage, Cameron and Faith are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Very good, sir. How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you live? We live in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, right outside of Knoxville. Awesome-ness. Well, welcome to Nashville. And all the way over here to do your debt-free scream, how much have you paid off? We paid off $161,400. Way to go. How long did that take? 43 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time?

We started at $77,000, and now we're at $180,000. Oh, I like that. Not bad in under four years, a little over three years. So what do you do for a living and how do you triple your income? Well, I'm a mechanical engineer. I'm also a mechanical engineer. And she... One of you wasn't working.

You got it. That's it. All right. So she was still in school when we started oh okay and then she jumped on and helped out quite a bit obviously and then both of you jumped way up quick on your on your raises as well that's right you hit the ground running hard well that's great yeah engineers are the number one category of millionaires in our study of millionaires so and you got two of them yeah so you're in really good shape this

is boding well for you. Double your chances there. I like it a lot. Very well done. Okay, what kind of debt was this? Student loans? No, sir. It was our house.

You paid off your house? Yes, sir. Wow. How old are you two? I'm 24. And I'm 27. That's illegal. You are so weird.

I love you. What's this house worth? I'd say about $2 290 now somewhere in that range wow wow how long you been out of school i've been out uh just just around four years yeah i've been out about two okay wow and you have a three hundred thousand dollar paid for house your family's got to be looking at you like you've lost like who are these people they didn't come from us they have some comments some good some bad yeah i bet i bet some jealous and some cheering you on that's right yeah i love it wow man three hundred thousand dollar paid for house in oak ridge tennessee uh where'd you graduate from ut no sir we were actually uh i originally from memphis

so we were uh a, local school there. Okay. Out of school. Oh, okay. All right. Wonderful. In terms of your undergrad. Yes, sir. Okay.

Both undergrad. Okay. So, are you working for, who are you working for in Oak Ridge, can you say? I can say. Yeah, it's Oak Ridge National Labs, actually. Yeah, I was thinking. Okay. Yeah, that's perfect.

Wow. Very cool. Very cool. Good for you guys. That's fun. So, how did you get connected to all this Ramsey stuff? So I can, uh, attest to my mom. She, we were homeschooled and we started in the foundations and finance course for that. I love mom. She's awesome. She is awesome. She has been our biggest cheerleader through the years. Um, but I can thank her a lot for that.

And then, uh, we just kind of did the Dave Ramsey method. We actually bought the house or I bought the house prior to marriage. No score loan with Churchill Mortgage actually. Yeah. Yeah. So it worked out perfectly to a T. Those guys were super helpful through the whole process and we just ate away at it. We actually were here two years ago, almost the day, for the first event up the hill. Oh, yeah. That's right. And that's where we decided, you know what? We could knock this out whenever she graduates.

So that's what we did. We planned it out. So you pre-decided that you were going to be done with debt completely before you were 30. That's right. Did you have a set goal to pay it off in a certain amount of time? We did. Yeah. I bet a couple of engineers had a plan.

Oh, of course. That's the only way we can live. So what was the original game plan? So the game plan was we were going to pay it off by January 1 of this year, 2025. Her birthday is on the 30th prior to that. So we were trying to knock it out then. We missed that date by eight days.

Wow. So a little too bad. I'm going to call that a bullseye. I think you're a failure. I don't think you made it. I think you should be real disappointed. Oh, my goodness. You guys are awesome heroes.

Well done. Well done. Wow. So, Faith, you grew up in a family, Cameron, with homeschooling on foundations. But Faith, did your family look at y'all like, who have you married? A little bit. I actually had a similar story to Cameron where I took your class in high school. Actually, Coach Bunch, he was my teacher there,

and he still teaches personal finance your fundamentals foundations class where is this at trinity christian academy it's in jackson tennessee yeah okay yeah wonderful thanks coach yeah for real he he taught me then and we just kind of followed the principles and found him and it just stuck when you went through the curriculum okay one day i'm gonna we're gonna do this stuff we're gonna live debt free and see what happens and i mean you guys are living proof of what it means to get started on the plan early. You know, we talk about financial peace babies, and here you are, 24 and 27, no payments in the world.

Yep. That's really weird. Now, that's a homeschool curriculum and a high school curriculum. Right there. It works. Way to go, Ramsey Education Team. Normalized it to where you went, and then you went and got a – it's something that no one knows how to do. You got a no score like you got yeah you and Whitney and then you paid off

your home too from Churchill mortgage no credit score mortgage and that's up at the same interest rate as everybody else and then turn around and pays it off in 43 tiny little months and um man that's amazing y'all I'm so proud of you you guys are like proof that we're going to be okay in america your generation you're bringing it man i love it way to go that's very cool what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is gotta have a plan absolutely you're not going to get anywhere if you don't plan it out actually you will you'll get nowhere yeah so yeah and yeah your plan is so detailed you know within eight days of what it's supposed to land it's not a this was not a uh a plan lacking in

detail these are a couple engineers it's one of the reasons the engineers do so well is they plan and um they like numbers and they're thinking about how what it takes to win and process driven so process driven process orientation orientation. That's exactly right. Way to go, you two. Very, very cool. I'm proud of you. How's it feel? Do you have any idea how rich you're going to be? I mean, this is unbelievable. It really hasn't hit yet. We've had a couple months now of no mortgage payment, so it feels odd. The money just kind of sits there now. I guess it's going to have fine a final plan for that too yeah yeah you better be careful that you enjoy some of it that you invest some of it and that you're

overly generous with some of it because that's where you are early and um i mean you have a three hundred thousand dollar paid for house uh you're making two hundred thousand dollars a year you don't have payment in the world and you have the ability to work together which most couples don't and you have the ability to set together which most couples don't and you have the ability to set a goal and hit it which most people don't know how to do i'm predicting you know probably a 30 million dollar net worth at least minimum so i think that's where you land so good job man y'all are incredible it's absolutely and all from a homeschool curriculum and a high school curriculum with a coach that's incredible so parents out there are going, I hope this sticks with the kids.

Hey, they're taking it all in, even if they have their arms crossed the whole time. They can't not remember the time when Dave said, debt is dumb, cash is king. You know, ignorance was bliss. And you go through that curriculum, and now you know too much about car loans and budgeting and saving, and you guys are living proof this stuff still works.

Man, it's amazing. It's very, very cool. And we got two every-dollar subscriptions for you. you can use those or pay it uh pay it forward to someone else and get them started when they go wait what do you mean a no score what are you smoking man you just check this out yeah i got you i got you covered on that well way to go you two cameron and faith knoxville oakridge tennessee 161000 paid off that's house and everything at 24 and 27 years old the house is worth 300 grand they're making 188 these days you guys are awesome you're heroes man I'm impressed count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one we're free yeah amazing

now if we could just clone them and put them all over america this country would be in a different place dave it's up to the parents and the teachers because we've got the curriculum obviously from the time i wrote the very first book people said this ought to be taught in high schools you're right and finally we developed a high school curriculum. Now, 48% of the high schools have taught it. Over 6 million students have gone through this in high school, not counting homeschool. And it's pretty crazy how many, and you teachers and you principals out there, you can do this. You educators, you can do this for these kids. You set them up. You moms and dads that are homeschooling, you can them up and these young people right here man they're going to be so

generous so wealthy they're a wonderful couple i mean wow talk about winning that's very cool this is the ramsey show If you're a business owner or you know one, you know the truth about it. Running a business is hard. When you open your own business, you find out you have a jerk for a boss. Don't work your butt off, man. Work you into the dirt. Work you like a rented mule i'm just saying it's hard out there man it's hard you scratch your claw you make payroll on friday you make mistakes and as soon as you start winning some idiot says you're so lucky luck didn't have nothing to do

with it right it's tough the challenges pile up the fear creeps in you're left wondering if you're even doing it right and that's why i wrote this latest book it comes out april 15th where you got it on pre-sale right now build a business you love we've grown ramsey from a card table in my living room to where we are today and i built a business i love i've enjoyed it it's been It's been tough. I won't tell you it's easy. It's not for everybody. It's certainly not for wuss. It's not a wussy thing.

You've got to get it. But if you're running something or you're thinking about running something, you don't have to go it alone. I can show you exactly how to do it. There are five distinct stages of business. We've proven that not only with our business but with the 10,000 businesses we coach. And there are six drivers that drive you through it. In other words, this system is the baby steps for small business. And you don't want to miss this. Build a business you love. It's $29.99. If you pre-order it before April 15th, the pub date, you get over $350 in free bonus items, including instant access to our Entree Leadership videos on hiring and firing. It's a big deal.

Early access to the e-book and the enhanced audio book are part of the package, too. Pre-order at RamseySolutions.com. Slash store, build a business you love. On sale now at a deal. Ashley's in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Ashley.lanta georgia hi ashley how are you i'm good how are you better than i deserve what's up in your world oh my question for you is should i spell my rental property to pay off my student loan debt wow how much student loan debt you got? A lot, $338,000.

That is a lot. Are you a doctor or a lawyer? Lawyer. Okay. And what's your income? So excluding like the rental property, it's around $95,000 to $100,000. How long have you been in law school? Since 2019. Okay. When are you going to start making some more money with your law degree?

I don't know. Yeah, I guess that's a problem. You spent a lot of money on a law degree because you could make a lot of money, and now you're not making a lot of money. Right. Diesel mechanics make more than you. Yeah. So what are you going to do to get your career going, kiddo?

Change jobs. Let's start there, I guess. Okay. All right. And what's the rental property worth? The rental property is um the rental property is funny it's worth the same amount as my debt 338 000 that's the current is it paid for value no i wish okay so it won't pay off the student loan debt how much do you owe on it

176 000 okay so you get 100150,000 out of it, right? Correct. Yeah. That'll definitely help. Instead of you being in debt for 10 years, we can speed this process up by selling this rental property. You got any savings? Anything else you could sell? So I currently have a storage unit with some stuff in it that I've been trying to sell all of that stuff out.

And you're paying for the storage unit. Yeah. So let's free up money every nook and cranny in your budget. And we're going to get you on a budget because that's going to be the real path out of here, regardless of what happens, getting your income up, getting your expenses down. But I'd love to see you debt free in under two years. You think you could do that if you got in tents? Oh, for sure. especially if i sold the property i've been torn between selling it and moving into it and so i just what word are you living here um currently i live with my parents but um i was about to start renting good that's fine that's fine that's fine yeah i believe i would um now i mean i i was one of the first in my family to get a formal education are you i am well yeah okay i am um

i let me ask you if this is true, and it's okay if it's not. Please tell me the truth, okay? I'm not forcing this on you because there's a lot of symptoms in this conversation that make me think this, and I'm not sure if I'm right, okay? So you can correct me. But did you kind of have the idea like I did that we were sold? If you go get a law degree, they're just going to start sending you big checks.

It's going to be like easy. Yep. I, as a, so I probably said I wanted to be a lawyer as a kid. Yeah. You worked your tail off and we're really, really focused till you pass the bar.

And you thought at that point this was going to get easy yes and it definitely did not and it didn't opposite and you fell backward into a half-butt lawyer job yes instead of a really really good one making 200 correct yeah correct what kind of law are you doing is it the specific niche that you're in that's not making it i would say it's the specific niche. It's real estate law. Yeah, so here's what I'm pointing to, and I lived through this, and I know a whole bunch of other people that have lived through the same thing.

Now that you have discovered that the education is not the cause of your success, instead you are going to be the cause of your success. Instead, you are going to be the cause of your success. That should give you some new energy to go kill some things and drag them home. So go get an apartment, sell this condo, clean out this storage shed, get your butt in gear, and go make you some money. Because the Calvary's not coming. It's not going it's not gonna get easy you're the secret sauce to the success not the degree the degree as you have discovered and i have discovered

is not magical right you see what i'm following you see what i'm doing yes so the the same incredible determination and sacrifice emotionally and psychologically that you used to get go get this degree because it was supposed to be Willy Wonka's golden ticket I want you to use that same determination that's inside of you to go now be somebody okay you follow me because yes this is all this all looks like you peaked out at graduation and have been sliding ever since you're living at home you got a storage unit you got this rental unit you're in a substandard you're not making the money you ought to be making as smart as you are and um i want you to go get rid of every bit of that i want you to go get some money you have earned the right to go get it you are a star go act like it go get some

get this stuff knocked out clean this stinking mess up get you a grown-up life like i have my own apartment i live in my mom's living room i'm a freaking lawyer for god's sakes you know go stand up girl and get this storage unit cleaned out get this thing sold and then start looking for a better opportunity and walk in with a little bit of like a lot of superstar confidence when you walk into the interview for the next place because you are that person okay that's that's what's going on so you get our income to 200k we get this mess cleaned up this this stuff's gone in a heartbeat for the next place because you are that person, okay? That's what's going on. So you get our income to 200K, we get this mess cleaned up. This stuff's gone in a heartbeat. But we tell everybody this, and then if you come from a demographic,

we'll just call it, if you come from a background where uh the the people around you were not people of four-year degrees they tend to think sometimes in that culture that that in the culture that she and i are talking about uh that if you get the degree it's willie wonka's golden ticket and people that have that are like third generation they've had college degree college degree college degree they know it's not they know it's not the cause of success that it's just some tools in your belt that you still got to get up leave the cave kill something and drag it home you still got to go be somebody you still got to double up your fist and bust some noses you still got to push out there and make it happen. Your degree is not a guarantee of success. It's quite the opposite. It'll actually hold you back if you

stop. But if you come out of that and the people around you didn't know that, then you believe that and it messes with you. So it's part of where the student loan crisis has come from. Everyone should go watch Borrowed Future on our YouTube channel. It's our documentary on the student loan crisis and it explains all of this go watch Borrowed Future on our YouTube channel. It's our documentary on the student loan crisis, and it explains all of this beautifully. Falls right in line with every bit of that. Wow, you're cool. I like you a lot.

You're going to do good. This is The Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Thanks for joining us, America. We're glad you're here here 888-825-5225 that's the number you jump in we'll talk angels with us in waco texas hi angel how are you good hello how are y'all better than we deserve what's up hey um you know when they told me that dave ramsey and um george cam was going to be on the show, you know, that got me my hopes up.

And this question, hopefully, is a fun one for y'all. Hope they don't let you down. I'm just, I'm just been debating, honestly. You know, you know, I've got to, you know, just over the past few years, I've been having like, no, just over the, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm kind of nervous. But over the past few years, you know, big things have been happening to me. And I just honestly want to celebrate my family. And I've been debating, honestly, taking them out to a nice, fancy dinner.

It's possibly going to cost like about $800, if I'm not mistaken. And I was just wondering if that's wise or not to take the opportunity or just, you know, take them out and treat them. Okay, what makes you think it's unwise are you debt free um i would say not necessarily um but i will say i do got minimal debt like about i said 1500 and then um just got a house mortgage okay what's your household income sir um roughly income, sir? Roughly about $60,000 a year. And how much do you have saved? I'd say about $3,000 in my savings. Okay. And what are we celebrating? I'm confused. It sounded like you came into some money or something. No, just a couple more immigrant household. I'm the first one to graduate from my family, and just a lot of their blessings.

Got a corporate job. I feel like I'm the head hunter, if you will, and just stuff like that. I just want to celebrate them both. Before I do anything unwise with the money that I have in my savings, I just want to make sure if it's okay to just celebrate something, something for the family. Yeah. It's okay to do anything you want to do.

You're a grown man. You make a living. You're allowed to do whatever you'd like to do. What Sharon and I decided, Angel, after we went broke, was until we had an emergency fund in place of three to six months of expenses to protect our family from bad things. And until we were debt free, we were not going to do any splurging. We were going to completely focus every dime we had until we did those two things. And it doesn't sound like you're there.

It doesn't sound like you've got a lot of savings. I mean, if you told me you had, you know, $25,000 in savings for your emergencies and you were making really good money and you don't have any debt and you were totally on a budget, you and your wife or you and your family were working a system to get to build wealth, then yeah, you'd be at a position there that you could take it out of a monthly budget and splurge that. But it sounds like you're giving half of your net worth to a restaurant to me. Yeah, yeah. And like I said, and that was what I was thinking too,

but I was unsure if it was unwise to spend that money. It is unwise. Yeah, so. At this stage, until you get to where, because, okay, let's say you spend $800 and then you have a $5,000 emergency. Heat and air goes out on the house. Yeah, yeah. You're up a creek, man. Okay.

Because you're living on the edge. So I would just delay the celebration. Right now, you could pay off your debt today. You said you had $1,500 in debt. You have $3,000 in savings. the celebration right now you could pay off your debt today you said you had 1500 bucks in debt you have 3000 savings so you could pay off your debt have 1500 left over and then continue to build until you have a fully funded emergency fund and then we can save up and and have a good time and treat your family so you're not far off but you're not in a place to go spend a thousand dollars eating out yeah but i'm proud of you yeah i mean and the good

news is you're thinking about it so you're trying to decide most people just go do this and then wonder why they're broke and i think there's other ways to celebrate other than saying hey can we take you out to a really fancy dinner i just i remember when we were broke it was like everything that could go wrong would it's like your life looks like a country song you know when you got no money you're asking for trouble all the time and it's like weird when we got an emergency fund we got the first ten thousand dollar emergency fund all those years ago it's like the emergencies all left like they went to somebody's house that was broke they went over there yeah like this guy's got an emergency fund we're not gonna hang out over here yeah you don't touch the emergency fund once you

got one because i never have had an emergency that was big enough to get to the emergency fund after I finally got one. You just budget for it, cash flow it, and be done with it. Yeah, I mean, we just said, well, that's really not an emergency. We're just not going to do it until we pay cash for it, whatever it was, once we finally got there. But it took forever. I distinctly remember where it was going on in our home when we got to

that first ten thousand dollars because i'd never had ten thousand dollars liquid cash that i was that was sitting there to not be used for anything because i would always spend it i was like angel i'm gonna go celebrate something right and but it changed everything once we did that it's like it it's like murphy repellent you know once you've got an emergency fund it's just like the bad stuff goes to somebody else but you're asking for it man when you're walking along the edge all the time it's a problem that savings has a name and it's to the lenders right now and so the emergency fund to protect you and one day you can start budgeting say hey i'm going to save up and just take everyone out to celebrate yeah angel what we say around here is i want to live like no one else so that later i can live and give like no one else and so what you're talking

about is you want to live like no one else i'll go out and spend 800 bucks on a restaurant and that's pretty cool i i gotta tell you that's not a bad thing it's not an immoral thing to do but but uh i'm going to tell you that if you'll do it after you've got everything in place, the meal will taste better and you won't be sweating every little thing that happens over there and all that kind of stuff. And by the way, buying an $800 meal does not make you the head honcho being the head honcho makes you the head honcho $800 meals meals doesn't cause that to happen. That's not where that comes from. Serving your family, taking care of your family, taking care of your workplace, being there with your teammates and making sure stuff happens, adding value.

This is what makes you the head honcho. It's not buying dinner. And make sure you don't hear that we're taking the wind out of your sails. It's an incredible accomplishment. You have changed your family tree to be the first one in your entire family to get this education, to get this big boy job, and that's a big accomplishment. And there will be a time to celebrate, but right now we've got to get some foundation laid because Murphy's still at the door.

That's what I would do, and that's the problem. If you call here and ask what we would do do we will tell you what we would do the live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else the bible says it this way no discipline seems pleasant at the time no discipline seems pleasant at the time. Well, no kidding, it doesn't. But it yields a harvest of righteousness. So the ability to delay pleasure is an emotional maturity, a spiritual maturity that you find among all successful people.

Delay the good to get the great. You know, most people don't have trouble walking away from the bad, but walk away from the good so you can get the great. Delaying it. Delaying it to get the best. It makes it worth it. It makes it sweet. This is The Ramsey Show.

George Campbell, Ramsey Personality. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Donna is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Donna. How are you? Hey, I'm great. How are you guys? Better than we deserve.

What's up? So I've got a question. We have some rental property. I've heard you speak before to people about buying mobile homes that are not on your land. We have multiple rental properties, and they're mobile homes, and they are in different areas that they are not on our land. I've been talking to my husband about trying to pay some of the debts that we have, and I'm just wondering should we sell those mobile homes?

I know that lot rent goes up every year because they are in mobile home parks. We paid approximately $122,000 in just lot rent last year. How many do you own? I'm trying to figure out if that's something we should sell. We own about 30, and we own all of them free and clear. Okay. All right. And if we sold all of them, what would it bring? You could probably get probably 20 apiece, roughly, give or take.

Okay. $600K? Is that right? Probably so. Did I do that right? Okay. All right. Now, here's the question.

Lot rent's going to go up every year. Rents are going to go up to cover that, and then some. It'll go up more than the lot rent goes up, so your rents are going to continue to net you more and more and more um dollar for dollar the twenty thousand dollars you put in versus the rent you get out is excellent you get great rents for the 20k you put in agreed right and so they're they're machine. The downside, of course, and you already know this, is 20 years from today, the $600,000 investment you have will be worth close to zero.

Right. So the only return you're getting on your $600,000, and you're not going to get the $600,000 back, is you've got to recoup the $600,000 with the cash flow, and then you've also got to get the 600K back, is you've got to recoup the 600K with the cash flow, and then you've also got to get a return on it in 20 years if you keep them. So if you run the numbers out that way and you like what you're seeing return on investment-wise, I'm going to make $600,000 in 20 years,

plus I'm going to make, what, 20% will be $120,000 a year on these things for 20 years. Are you going to do that? Probably so. We have some that we have on a rent-to-own program. Just because you can't find anybody that's got the kind of money to buy these things with cash. We're trying to unload a few of them. We own a property management business, and I do work for these people that own the land,

but I still have to pay the lot rent. we've got other rentals as well my my husband has he's got this idea that he wants to get our liquid funds in the bank to one million dollars before we sell or do anything and I'm wanting to try to get us out of debt so yeah how much debt do you have uh we only have we have a few mortgages and then we have um just a few vehicles so what does that add up to our our home is about 250 we have a condo that's on an airbnb program it's about 200 um and then we have an apartment complex we only have about 49 000 left on it and you got you're managing it too yes you guys work hard we self-manage everything i've got about 750 tenants total yeah you got all you work your butt off yeah been doing it since 2018 so it's a

i've got a little practice in by now. Okay. And you have 30 of these. Correct. Okay. Okay. Well, I looked at two or three different mobile home parks where I bought the land and the mobile homes,

and the cash return on the investment was incredible. Even after you look at the value of the mobile home themselves evaporating. The ones I was looking at, I would own the dirt under them, and so I didn't have lot rent. And I would end up, when all the smoke cleared but the junk trailers left over, I would have had a lot of cash and a paid for piece of dirt you're not going to have that you're just going to have a big old pile of mobile home mess right in 20 years so um and and the lot rents pricing us out it's pushing us kind of

squeezing us because we can't you know we can't $1,200 for rent in a mobile home park, not here. Yeah, that's true. All right. Yeah, so it's kind of putting a squeeze on us. Yeah, I guess if I ask the question, I mean, you can't sell them all for $600,000 in two months. That's not possible based on what you said. But if I had $600,000 in a pile and I did not own these, would I go buy them? No.

Then it is time to sell them. Why would you not go buy them again? Well, besides it's a lot of work. A lot of them are just really old, and to me they're not worth $20,000, but that's about what they would sell for around here. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. And like I said, we've got several tenants that have been there from the beginning since 2018. I mean, we've made our money back and then some of them, probably 90% of them.

Yeah. And the $600,000 would clear all of your debts plus your mortgage? Now, here's the thing. I bought a condo yes in 2008 one of the properties that we own i bought it for 260 000 i looked it up the other day and it's worth about a million and i've been collecting rent on it you're collecting rent and your assets going down in value and that just bothers me about this whole thing that's my that's my concern that's why i call yeah it's just it's just i just don't it even though i know the numbers are

return on 20 grand is excellent i mean it's not 260 grand it's 20 you know i mean two condos that i bought in 2008 is all you could get with 600 grand. I paid 260 for it back then. So you pay a million for that condo today. But that's the other end of the spectrum, in other words, on the rental side. So I'm making more money on that condo and increasing in value than I am in rents. You're making all your money in rents while your thing is going down in value. You're the opposite end of the spectrum. It is a valid mathematical equation it's not invalid you're not you're not you are working your butt off

because per tenant man the time you put into uh all these apartments and and 30 trailers to collect the rent oh my god you are working and keep them rented and clean them up after somebody moves out and you're self-managing all that. Y'all are working. You got a full-on property management operation, 750 tenants. I might just simplify my life and clear the deck, pay off the debts and see where we're at. I think I'm on her team.

Yeah, that's what she's wanting to do. She's wanting us to vote with her. And I think I am going to vote with her. But it's not to say that the process they used to get here was completely stupid or invalid, because mathematically they're making money. But the hassle factor and the loss in value is going to cause me to systematically liquidate the trailer portfolio and move towards properties that are not as hard to manage and they go up in value. So, and by the way, folks, that's a good rule of thumb if you're thinking about residential properties, okay?

The less expensive, and, you know, a $20,000 trailer is pretty much the bottom of the barrel on the expense side. The less expensive the rental property is, the higher your rate of return on rents is, but also the higher your hassle factor. Because the cheaper the rent, the more problem you have with a tenant. Not all cheap tenants are bad people. That's not what I'm saying, but the more likely you are to have trouble. So when you move up into a higher grade of tenant, you don't make as much on the property return on investment percentage-wise,

but the property is going to go up in value faster because it's a better area, and the quality of tenant is easier to deal with. Less hassle factor. So what if instead of $750, you had $75 with the same money? That sounds simpler. And you didn't make as much monthly, but you made a lot more in appreciation. That's a different mix of portfolio than what she's got. But they've done very well.

Congratulations. I'll give you a high five. This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney and I are going on the Money and Relationships Tour. We're going to be doing events in six cities in April and May. And it's weird. We are actually going to put up a bunch of topics on the screen and on an app. And if you're sitting in the audience before the event starts, you're going to vote and you're going to design what we're going to talk about before we go up.

You can't complain if you don't like it then. Yeah. You chose it. Well, I mean, you could complain that you didn't like the list to choose from, but you're going to design. Each audience is going to get a different show. That's cool. It's pretty cool. So we're going to be in Louisville, Kentucky, April 21st. Money and Relationships, Durham, North Carolina, on April the 23rd.

Atlanta on April 25th at the famous Fox Theater. Oh, that's a beautiful theater. That is a great theater. Phoenix, Arizona, May 5th. Fort Worth on May 7th. And Kansas City on May 9th. Tickets are going fast. They are not sold out, but you can still get them.

RamseySolutions.com slash tour. Or if you're on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the show notes. Well, today's Ramsey Network app question is from Elise. Elise asks, my dad passed away and we are in shock over the cost of basic funeral expenses. My brother and I are trying to help mom navigate the whole process. I'm married with two small children and have an annual income of $300,000. We have an emergency fund and are on baby steps four, five, and six. When is it right to step in and cover these expenses that we know my mom can't afford? We've been quoted 5,000 just for a double tombstone, not including the funeral and burial.

There's a small insurance policy on my dad, but I won't leave mom much once the funeral costs are paid. Should my brother and I cover these expenses so mom can use the insurance money as she needs it? Be wonderful if you can jump in and cover this yeah it would be great um uh your dad is uh not in um he's not going to get a five thousand dollar tombstone that's about double almost triple the national average for a grave marker uh the typical funeral in america right now is about eighty five hundred dollars not counting tombstones tombstones fifteen hundred bucks to three thousand dollars something like that not five thousand and so i don't know what's happening with the particular group you're dealing with um i might even it sounds weird but I might even go shopping on this funeral home.

They're not the only one in town, hopefully. I hope they're not, and if they are, I'm going one town over because it's a small town. But there you go. I mean, $5,000 for people that don't have any money for a tombstone is not reasonable. So, no, you don't get to buy that but yes you can help with the eight thousand dollar or so version of a funeral if your brother and you know you split it with brother and you make over three hundred thousand you guys are debt free you have the emergency both of you put four grand in and help take care of dad's final expenses and put a marker

on the grave um now if later on you guys have some extra money and somebody wants to come back and replace the marker with a big fancy tombstone, that's fine. But if you wander through graveyards and you see ginormous tombstones, those were rich people that had extra money. You're not, your dad dad's not your mom's not and that's fine there's no harm in that there's no shame in that but you just don't build you know you don't you just don't buy this tombstone for this situation um so i'm sorry man i'm sorry you

guys are going through this but you wanted the question answered so it's what i would do if i was in her shoes in their spot financially i'd go all right we're gonna split this with brother and it's it's not fun that funerals cost this much but did i hear you and rachel joking about costco caskets yes do they really sell caskets they really exist all the comments that i had to google and i said you didn't trust little old george when i said costco sells caskets i really didn't know this either i did i was listening to y'all about something when i was checking in on you on one of the podcasts and i heard this in a drive-by and i'm like i i would imagine if george says it's so it's so but i had no idea what does costco sell a casket for it's you know 1100 bucks you know so it's much cheaper what the funeral home would charge and a lot of them will price match if you didn't know they'll go all right we'll either

price match it or you can ship the costco casket to the funeral home and save on cost that way yeah so and somewhat rachel here's what rachel said your daughter by the way i would never get buried in a costco casket i was like what do you want a name brand casket i completely would it's a kirkland casket i come nothing to do what do you want, a name brand casket, Rachel? I completely would. It's a Kirkland casket. It's legendary. Nothing to do with the Kirkland thing at all, but just, I mean, whoever sees it again. Exactly.

It's gone. Rachel apparently wanted a designer brand casket. Well, yeah, she wants a Louis Vuitton, I'm sure. But that's unbelievable. Yeah, and they're not made by Costco, just to be clear. But, you know, here we go. It's a beautiful one, $1,100, $1,400 for the most expensive one. So that's a pretty good deal over paying $3,000 at a funeral home.

The funeral business is an interesting business, and there are plenty of people in that business that do a great job, but it is a business that has a reputation for high markup. So that same casket might be three grand in the $8,000 funeral I'm talking about. I don't know. But, you know, that's the thing. When you don't have information and you're grieving and you're grieving and somebody puts something in front of you and you just do it, that grieving and you just there's somebody puts something in front of you you just do it that's when you you know you pay too much and so um it's a good reason to

pre-plan your funeral not pre-pay i don't believe i know you don't need to pre-pay it's a big sales pitch that's a huge thing they make a bazillion dollars on that and that is not a good deal at all pre-paid funeral never do that never never never never do that but pre-planning your funeral They make a bazillion dollars on that, and that is not a good deal at all. Prepaid funeral, never do that. Never, never, never, never do that. But preplanning your funeral and go, okay, you can go down and pick out ahead of time and compare it to Costco or whatever you want to do or say, I would never if you want to be Rachel, so all that kind of stuff. But you can – and then the family doesn't have to think about it.

I haven't done this. I've got a fully done estate plan every detail is laid out but i have not gone down and done this you haven't picked your casket i've not and i and i don't know what the stuff costs well can i suggest the president casket by prime which includes a brushed copper oh my god cream velvet interior that's real they pulled it up on the screen. No, please. That's real life. Oh, that's, come on. Oh, man.

You deserve this matching pillow and throw that comes with it. Oh, George. And has adjustable eternal rest bed. Are you a salesman? I'm just reading the description, and it's really tickling me. You sound like you're a Costco casket salesman. I'm doing it. That's a pretty heavy demotion you got there. I know. if you see me

selling caskets from ramsey personality to costco casket salesman it's it's that's the thing you you know anything like this where all of us get you just don't know what's going on then act like you don't know what's going on and start gathering information um i mean just start checking out stuff like that right there and start checking out what they do at the other funeral home and start comparing and all of a sudden what felt like it was a trap options give you power knowledge gives you power and it gives you peace too because you go okay we're paying eight thousand dollars but we've checked it out and we've looked at all these different things and that's the right price.

That's right. But a simple Google search on average cost of tombstone will tell you $5,000 is not right. All you have to do is just plug that in. Yeah. I mean, that's all you have to do. Take five minutes to do some research. And, Dave, the scary part is this casket is 114 reviews. Who is reviewing the casket?

How are they doing this how did they experience the casket and then leave a review from beyond the grave that's beyond me it's not for me to answer i have questions it's just the pallbearers going hey hey love the handles on that thing five stars i don't know not to get too dark but dave was always cheap, and he loves his Costco casket, we think. Very strange. This whole thing is wild to me. That is bizarre. That is just weird.

I will say that a lot of the costs, the funeral directors chimed in the comments section. They said, hey, a lot of the costs are like a wedding. You got the catering for the food. You have the flowers. So there's a lot of pieces of this. Catering? Yeah, you got to get good food to grieve with. I'm sorry, was

there not a Baptist around? Where's the casseroles? Dave ain't doing a potluck. Is Sharon Ramsey gonna cook? I feel like she needs to grieve. Catering? Yeah. One of the things you... Oh, man. Yeah, you gotta get some catering. I mean, I guess you could do a potluck

if you're a true Baptist. Is that biblical? I thought everybody brought food. What do I know? I don't trust it. My people deserve better as they grieve my loss. Wow. What are we going to do in tacos? Bring in a food truck.

Exactly. A food truck and a Costco casket. That's how George rolls. I want to leave a good taste in your mouth when I go. That's how George rolls. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, James 1.5. Any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach,

and it will be given to him. Thomas Sowell said, why is there so much effort being put into trying to find intelligent life on other planets when there is a serious question about how much intelligent life there is here? Truer words have never been spoken. I like it. Carmen is in Riverside, California. Hi, Carmen.

How are you? Hi. Good afternoon, Dave, George, Carmen. How are you? Hi. Good afternoon, Dave, George, and Christian on the phone booth. Thank you so much for taking my call. And how are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. How can we help? Yes, Dave.

I'm 60 years old, and I have a term life insurance that will mature when I turn 75, which is 15 years from now. And my question is, should I call Sanders and get another term life, I believe, 20 or 25 years? That will take me 80, 85, I'm not really sure. For what? If they will put another term life. For what? Why do you need insurance I'm not sure I think that's the reason why I called who's counting on you to eat if you pass away is somebody going to be hungry no so what's this money for? To leave for my children.

No, you don't use life insurance. You don't leave life insurance to leave an inheritance. It's not a good buy. No. Do you have any money saved? I have $500,000 on my Roth IRA, and then I have $150,000 in Janus and $50,000 for Vanguard. Okay, and if you died today, your kids would use some of that money to bury you

and they would split that money up. Is that right? Yes, sir. Should I consolidate? I'm not sure if that's the right word. Should I consolidate that all in one, put it all in Vanguard or TSP? Whoa, whoa, let's stop on that. Let's go back to the insurance question, okay?

Okay. If you pass away, no one is financially counting on you. As a matter of fact, they are all going to receive a very nice inheritance without any life insurance. Do I understand correctly? Yes, sir. Okay. Then cancel the policy you have now and know you do not buy another policy.

There's no reason for you to be giving these insurance companies money. Now, back to your other question then. You said you have money in what? You have it in Vanguard and what else? I have DSP, Vanguard, and Janus. Okay. There's nothing wrong with any of those unless you've got them in some of their weak funds. Every fund family, what you named is like a brand, like Campbell's has soup.

Campbell's might have some good soup and some bad soup. Vanguard might have some good funds and some weaker funds. Janus might have some good funds and some weaker funds. And so what I would do is sit down with a good broker, a good advisor. If you don't have one, you can check at RamseySolutions.com for a SmartVestor Pro and sit down with someone and look at what you have and how it's performing as opposed to how the market is performing and so is it doing about what the

market's doing then you're fine right and if you want to consolidate some of it that's fine if it's not keeping up then yeah you need to maybe look at moving it and diversifying some of it a reminder for everyone listening out there that the purpose of term life insurance is to replace your income for those that rely on it. And the goal is once that 15 to 20 year term is over, you're self-insured. You followed the baby steps. You paid off your house. You've got a nice nest egg. So you don't need to continue this.

John is in Louisville, Kentucky. Hey, John, how are you? Doing well. Thank you for speaking with me, guys. Sure. What's up? Well, I am a Southern Baptist minister, and referencing your other phone call, we do love our casseroles. I think so. I grew up in the South. I think when somebody passes away, you're supposed to bring food.

Absolutely. That's what I thought. Yeah, all right. But I'm a bivocational, so I have to have an additional job as well as being a minister, and I'm struggling with trying to decide how to continue to make enough money to take care of my family while putting enough priority into my ministry. There's a lot of layers to that, I know. It's a complicated question. No, it's a wonderful question.

It means you're a great man because you care about serving others, including your family, and evangelizing and mentoring and pastoring and loving people. You're a good man. And that brings this pull to your life naturally. And so, you know, the only thing I can think of is one of the studies I did, I'll send you a copy of the book,

the legacy journey. And I did a, a biblical study on wealth and to try to keep it in proper context in light of our Christian faith. Okay. And because it gets all twisted up as you know some people think everybody's got to be poor to go to heaven that's not in the bible and then another group thinks you got to be richer your faith is not strong and that's of course not

true either um so none of that's right so we laid all that out but anyway as i got down into that john one of the things i figured out is is that that I got a lot of peace from the idea of Bible's pretty clear, take care of my own household, and you can quote the Scripture with me, Pastor, first. Or I'm worse than, you know the Scripture, right? You there? A beggar, depending on the translation. A beggar, yeah, that's the King scripture, right? You there? A beggar, depending on the translation. A beggar, yeah, if you want to. That's the King James, right?

Or I'm worse than an unbeliever, the NIV would call it, right? And so, yeah, that's good. So, I mean, I take care of my own household first. It's in New Testament. It is very clear, Paul. And so, then I go over into Proverbs, and I see a good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children so inheritance changing your family tree is is not a bad thing it's a good thing so in in other words if I'm earning enough to for my family to have a reasonably good life in Louisville, Kentucky,

and then I'm going to cut my workload at that point and use the rest of it for ministry that I don't get paid for, but obviously I'm going to build up treasure in heaven, right, where moth and rust does not destroy then then that's a good mark i want to make sure though my kids don't um look back and say well we were poor because my dad spent all his time working for people outside the family that's really not scriptural right and so i but but you don't have to be uh driving bentley's either you know i guess that's part of my trouble is because we took financial peace university

about six months ago okay and we've been trying to get on and we have been on the bandwagon of budgeting good um and i do get i do get paid for the work that i do in ministry but i'm on the outskirts smaller city of louisville so there's not a lot of income here. No, you're not in the ministry to get rich. No, absolutely not. But I also do a small construction work. And, of course, you're just in it, so we did our profit and loss ratio. And needless to say, the business just has not performed well.

So it's like, do I? Well, you've got to get it working to take care of your family. Exactly. As a precursor to doing underpaid or little paid or non-paid ministry because your first ministry is to those kiddos, and that includes getting your house stabilized, which is getting rid of the debt and building a good emergency fund and those kinds of things. So you may have to turn up the heat for a period of time there and then turn the ministry heat up later,

turn it back up later. That's a possibility. But it's live like no one else so that later I can live and give, and you're giving when you're doing your ministry work like no one else so that later I can live and give and you're giving when you're doing your ministry work like no one else but you you've got a really good set of problems or because you're all of it is about you doing something for others which means you're just a great man so I love you I appreciate you calling in but yeah I'm going to take care of my own household first and I'm going to have peace doing that knowing that that's a godly activity so and then I'm going to be working with other folk and I have done that with my life too that puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace

and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace Christ Jesus