The Ramsey Show - App - Don’t Chase Your Dreams So Hard That They Become Nightmares

Episode Date: August 27, 2024

This is the Ramsey Show where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. The phone number is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me, and we're here together for you. George will take the lead as our resident money expert today, and I'll be helping you on making more income. How do you make more income? Do you need to make a professional move? Do you need to start something? We'll take on those calls as well so that you can get through the baby steps faster and get to that piece in a great, great way. All right, let's do it. George, you ready to go? I'm stoked. You warmed up?

Stoked is the only word. Did you gargle? I did, actually. Okay. Thank you for asking. I mouthwashed before the show, as you know. Trust me. I know. I walked in on it. It's a very awkward scene. I've got it out of my memory, and we're now ready to go. Larry is going to join us in Gulfport, Mississippi. Larry, how can we help today?

Hey, I got a question for you, I reckon. I'm trying to determine when the stress from my job isn't worth the money I'm being paid to do it anymore. Well, only you get to determine that. We can certainly weigh in on it. My general answer would be if you are going downhill emotionally, mentally, and physically, and it's really taking a toll on you. You can see it. It's a downward,

we're going down. It's not a roller coaster, like it's a good day. Maybe there's two good days, and then there's a really bad day. I mean, it is just a nonstop, everything is getting worse. I think that's the moment. However, unless you have the financial wherewithal to just walk from that, I'm the guy that's going to tell you to grit yourself through it and find something and find something quickly. How is this affecting you right now? Well, mainly just mentally, not really sleeping that well, stressed out all the time.

What kind of work is it? I'm a diesel mechanic. And is it that you're just not able to get all the work done during the day, and so you're having to work longer hours? Yes. So what happens is you go home. When you finally get home, you realize— My mind don't shut off.

That's right. Because of what all you've got to do the next day, correct? Yes, sir. All right. And so do you work for yourself or do you work for someone else? I work for somebody else. All right. And if you were to walk today, what kind of a bind would they be in?

A substantial one. Okay. And what's your relationship like with your boss? We get along really well. Okay. I think you got some leverage here. Have you had the conversation to say, hey, we've got to get another mechanic or we are going to have to slow down the amount of work that you're relying on me to do because it's really starting to affect me in a really bad way. I can't turn my brain off. I'm not sleeping at night. That's going to cause bigger issues, not just for you, the company, but me as well.

Have you had that conversation? Yes, about two months ago. And? It lasted about three days. What happened in the three days? Well, it's not necessarily his fault. We just, it's a pretty big company. And just when things go downhill, you know, we got to, we have five, 10 projects going on at a time. Everything's got equipment or trucks running to

it. And when three or four go down on different spots, it just, you know, it's a lot. It's an all hands on deck. We got to get these trucks back out there working. Yes, sir. Okay, and does he have the ability to hire? If you were in charge, what would you say the fix is? What's the solution if you were given all power to fix it? I don't know. Sure you do.

Well, you see, I'm the manager right this moment, and I've been hiring people, but work ethic from some people sort of puts me further behind than it should put me forward. Right. I know, but what I'm saying is just I'm taking you somewhere. If you knew you could find the right talent with the right work ethic, what's the fix to this problem?

I don't know. Sure you do. It's hiring more mechanics. Hiring more Larrys that are really good at what they do, who have the work ethic. If you could reproduce yourself times two or three, would that get you to a place where no matter when a truck breaks down or how many, we can handle it? Yeah, absolutely. All right.

The reason I'm walking you into this, Larry, is to give you some sense of hope because as a manager, you're going to have to come to the table with a solution. You've already said your boss, it's not his fault. Well, it sort of is. It's somebody's fault. And it sounds like the simple solution is if I found three more of me, then we could get there. And so I'm the type of guy that goes, I'm going to have to be the one that solves this. So if I like my job when it's not crazy and I've got a good relationship with my boss and I make good money, and I'm assuming you do, is that right? Yes, sir.

And it's a real pain in the you-know-what to replace this job. Is that true? Yes, sir. And it's a real pain in the, you know what, to replace this job. Is that true? Yes, sir. Yeah, man. So I'm getting solution focused before I decide to pull the ripcord and parachute out. So what I'm saying is, I've coached a lot of leaders on this, that you've got to go find people that are wired like you. And you know where those people are. They may be in high schools. They may be in high schools.

They may be in tech schools, community colleges. Where there's a will, there's a way. And you've got to find people who like fixing the problems because left to your own devices, if you're not stressed out, you enjoy doing the mechanic work, true or false? True. So go find those people. They don't ever want to wear a white collared shirt the rest of their

life the idea of put on a tie makes them break out in hives larry am i talking to you yes sir go find larry's go find them they're out there because you give them a path to prosperity to go can make really good money now i also say all this to say, you're going to have to have your leader and the leaders above them agree that if you go find the people, and it sounds like they've given you the carte blanche to do that, you just haven't found the right people yet. Guess whose fault that is? Mine. Come on, Larry. George? That gives me hope because if it's in Larry's power, Larry can do something about it.

Yeah, because he knows what he needs. No one, Larry, knows as much about this gig as you do. And so you've got to go find young people who you can train and who say, you know what, I want to work hard. And we get the right amount of people in there. They were not stressed out. So I say all that to say I'm trying to encourage you because if you walk from this, then know that you are saying, all right, I don't think that I could solve this anymore, and I'm not sure that you're at that place. So all that to say, I'm trying to help you win in this role. If you decide that it's too much, then go replace your income before you walk because of the stress of not having the income is way worse than the stress of having too much work.

You agree with that, George? Are you in good financial standing, Larry? I'm okay. What are you making? About $120 a year. Where is it going? Well, I'm just bad at financing, but I'm working on that. Well, that's one step. If you want that kind of freedom and margin and options, we got to start taking control of this amazing income you have. And that might be paying off debt. Let's get the emergency fund

in place, start investing for the future. And in the meantime, on the work side, you got your work cut out for you from Ken over here. We got to go hire some good folks. But it's doable, Larry, but you got to go find them. I'm talking to shop teachers. I'm talking to community colleges, tech schools, mechanic schools. You go find these people and ask the questions that you know you're supposed to ask to figure out if somebody's

actually got some work ethic. This is actually a very solvable problem. Get after it. All right, don't move. George is going to gargle some more during the break. I will watch him and we'll be back to take more of your calls. This is The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on.

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and an asset towards turning you into a Baby Steps millionaire. So get started on the American dream of home ownership today at churchhillmortgage.com. That's churchhillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLS consumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Rent with Tennessee 37027. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is with me. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. We'd love to answer your money questions, your income questions. I'm here to help out on some of those. How do we get some more income? And speaking of,

it's like everybody's kind of getting back into the regular mode, George. You know, depending on where you're at in the country, a lot of people are going back to school. A lot of kids go back to school after Labor Day. Certainly in the southeast, a lot of kids have been in school now for a bit. And, you know, it's time to kind of get out of summer mode and let's get serious. All of our sort of lackadaisical spending is now like, oh, gosh, we've got to face this head on. That's right. So we have got a great opportunity for those of you who want to tighten things up.

Rachel Cruz and the EveryDollar team is doing a free live training Wednesday, August 28th at 1 Eastern, 12 Central. That's Wednesday, August 28th. So it's a power lunch, if you will. 1 Eastern, 12 Central. Register for free at EveryDollar.com slash webinar. EveryDollar.com slash webinar. Over 100,000 people have registered for this free live training in the past, and so we're doing another one.

It's the number one way to eliminate debt. It's to budget. The number one way to build wealth is to budget. The number one way to get on the same page with your spouse about money is to budget. The number one way to eliminate stress in your financial life is to budget. Thank you, George, for paying attention. Again, check it out. Everydollar.com slash webinar. It's coming

up Wednesday, August the 28th 1 Eastern. Everydollar.com slash webinar. Rachel Cruz will be leading that. Should be a lot of fun. Bringing back Power Lunch. Yeah. It's been a long time since I heard that reference. Yeah, you know. Got a lot of unnecessary information stored up here.

It's amazing. As you know all too well, it pops out at a lot of unnecessary information stored up here and then it will not and it just it just as you know all too well it pops out at the opportune or inopportune time yeah your vocabulary never ceases to impress yeah well thank you very much uh glenn is up next in denver colorado glenn how can we help today hi george hi cam big fan thank you guys for taking my call. Thank you. What's going on? So I have an interesting question. So my father's getting older, and his health isn't in the greatest, but he's still doing fine. And he was recently talking to me about he wanted to leave his home to me,

and he wanted to add me to the title of his home. And I wasn't sure, uh, one, if that was the smartest idea. And two, I don't really know like what the tax implications of that would be or any of that. Um, I, it's a property I would never plan to sell, but I still don't want to, you know, hurt myself in the process. How old is your father? He is 64. Okay. Still got a lot of life left in him. And how old are you? I am 30. I'll be 32 this year.

Okay. And what's the sort of urgency to get you on the deed of this house? His health has just not been great. He's had a lot of stints in and out of the hospital as of recent, so he's a little bit unsure of just kind of where his health is going to end up in the near future, if I had to guess, maybe 10 years or so. So why not just have the house pass to you when he passes? Well, and that was something that I was trying to wonder, trying to figure out. I don't know. I think he had talked to somebody about it, and they had told him that this would be an easier process than that. Well, the problem

you'll run into, and you probably heard these terms, is cost basis. And so if your father gifts you the house during his lifetime while he's alive, you would inherit his cost basis, which is the original purchase price plus the improvements he's made. And so if you later sell, you'd be facing some big capital gains tax on that, on the appreciation since the purchase. Correct. So the way to avoid that would be you inherit the house after his death, and you'd get a step-up in basis. So now if you sell, well, you'd get it at the current value at the time he passed instead of the original purchase price. Okay.

So as far as taxes go, that's the better way to do it, the smarter way. Okay. And then to add on to that, would it be smarter to go through a will or through a trust? I mean, a simple will will do the job. Unless he has substantial assets and there's some strategy he's working with to pass these on a different way through a living trust, a simple will will do the trick. Okay. And if you want more, I would get in touch with a good estate attorney on this to look at your father's situation, the totality of his estate, all of his assets. Does he have a lot of wealth?

Not necessarily. The majority of his wealth is in his home. Okay. Yeah, in that case, I think a simple will would do the trick. Again, I would still talk to an estate attorney and get their take. A trust is, it can be a great tool, but they are much more expensive. Okay. And so depending on the involvement, you know, going through probate with a will, it's not as crazy as everyone makes it out to be. It's not as expensive as everyone makes it

out to be and as long. It can be a pretty simple process. But make sure that his wishes are made very clear. Okay. So does he have a will today? He does currently. I don't know exactly what's on it because I haven't seen it, but he does have one. Do you have siblings? I do. Okay. That's where things get messy is dad passes and they go, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're going to get the house? And so that's where I think it's wise for him to have a conversation with the family and go, here's what's going to happen.

When I pass, here's what's going to happen. And I think with his health issues, this is not too early to have this conversation. Okay. So you've got some homework there to make sure the will's in place, make sure the whole family's clear on what it is, and get with an estate attorney to talk through the implications of this house being transferred. But I would not do it while he's alive. Yeah. Good advice. Not fun to think about. It's not. It's not. But I agree with your advice 100%. It's just so much easier and getting it done through the will. Then all the feelings can be feelings, but everything is going by the book. And I think that's great advice. Let's go to Josh now in

Spokane, Washington. Josh, how can we help today? Hi, good afternoon. Good afternoon. What's going on? My wife and I have been looking at potentially cashing out her IRA to pay down on our house to try to pay it off within the next five years rather than, I think we have a little over 11 years left. How old are you two? 35 and 36. Oh boy. You know what happens when you cash out that IRA, right? I do. I will pay the taxes and then the penalty, but I will double the savings in my interest.

We would save about $20,000, and we'd be paying about $10,000 for the... Hold the phone right in front of your mouth, Josh. We're having a hard time hearing you. Oh, sorry. Is that better? I don't think there's going to be any savings here. You're essentially borrowing that money at 30%, 35% interest while unplugging all of the future growth of that Roth IRA. So if you plug that number into an investment calculator from 35 to 65, that's all the money you're giving up.

It's not just the money today plus taxes. It's also the future growth. Yeah. We also have, I have a pension through my work and and I have $390,000 in my company-sponsored 401K. Where's the urgency to knock out this mortgage at the expense of your retirement? Because we want to be able to enjoy traveling with our kids who are younger now. We're going to have money. We dropped our house to a 15-year about four years ago, and it's caused more stress than what we wanted just because inflation and everything. So, I mean, we're still able to pay our bills and we have no other

debts besides our house. Well, it sounds like you have an income problem then. If dropping to a 15-year caused you to have this much downward pressure on your finances, I don't think inflation is to blame here. What's your mortgage compared to your monthly take-home pay? Our mortgage just went up to like $2,450, and I think our take-home is $7,300. That's a lot. I think you guys, truthfully, what happened was you guys got too much house, and the 15-year mortgage just exposed that. And so I would not rob the retirement. I would downsize in-house if you really want more freedom and margin,

but I would not do this move under any circumstance. I hate to be bad cop here, Ken. No, I think you're absolutely right. Again, why sacrifice the future on the altar of the immediate? It's kind of this lifestyle. We want to do this and this. We're going to be thinking about the long-term here. Find a different way to do it than robbing a retirement. Yeah, I agree. I think that's just leave it alone. That's why we call that that investment for the future. So I know it's not what you wanted to hear, but that's what we think is best. Thanks for the call. All right, don't move.

More of your calls coming up. This is The Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get ten different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system.

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I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. The phone number for you to jump in is 888-825-5225. Alright, so here we go, George. We're about ready to hit Labor Day. You get on the other side of Labor day traditionally it's it's on a presidential election year that's when everybody kind of in the in the political business feels like things are heating up now now everybody starts to pay attention right and so we've been covering some economic issues that are central to the campaign and we're just saying we're not telling you how to vote we never will we're not telling you how we're voting either. By the way, some of these people, they assume things.

Nobody knows. That's true. Nobody knows. I like to keep a little mystique. Yeah, it's nobody's business. But it's not, you know, it's nobody's business. That's not what we're here to do. We're here to talk about how some of this policy could affect your pocketbook.

Yes. We're not interested in the policy. We're interested in your pocketbook. But to the extent that the policy will affect your pocketbook, we'll We're not interested in the policy. We're interested in your pocketbook, but to the extent that the policy will affect your pocketbook, we'll tell you what we think. Yeah. So there's your disclaimer. And so here we go. Let's talk about a new, it's not new, but not new at all. It's been floating around for a few years, but recently it's popped back up. What is that issue? I've been getting all these DMs, Ken. Everyone's freaking out.

They're going, oh my gosh, have you seen this? Kamala Harris is proposing a 44% unrealized capital gains tax. You need to talk about this. So I looked into it and went, okay. What'd you find? There's some truth to it. As with anything that is said on the internet or any headline, you got to look to the fine print to see what this actually is. So first let's talk about what capital gains is, right? You buy an

asset like real estate, a stock, a mutual fund, that thing appreciates in value, goes up, you go to sell it. You would then pay capital gains tax. There's short term if it's been less than a year, there's long term if it's longer than that. And the long-term is obviously a lower tax rate. So what they're talking about is unrealized capital gains, which means you didn't actually sell the asset, and yet they want to tax money you didn't actually make. So let's think about this with an example. Ken puts $10,000 into a mutual fund. The mutual fund increases to $15,000. So you made $5,000, Ken, but you didn't actually sell the fund yet. So you didn't actually make that $5,000. That's right.

Well, they're saying you should still pay taxes on that $5,000. Now you might ask this question, where is that money going to come from? Because I didn't sell this. Well, you're going to have to find the money elsewhere, Ken, because we want our pound of flesh. They being proponents of this policy. Yes. So this is not a Kamala policy. This is from the Biden administration that Kamala has come out and said, hey, we are backing the Biden tax proposals that were set up. So here's the deal. Does this affect you? Well, it may not directly affect you because they're saying this is really

the billionaire income tax is what they're calling it. It's for households that have an income of more than, or at least assets that are worth more than a hundred million dollars. So this affects, Dave Ramsey, if you're listening, this affects you, probably no one else listening right now, this affects. Now, Ken, there are indirect effects that I think we should talk about. So let's talk about what happens when we add these extra taxes. And right now they're saying there'd be a minimum 20% tax. So it's not 44%. They are proposing that should be the highest marginal tax rate. It's 44%, which is higher than it is now. But let's even say 20% on those unrealized capital gains. Let's talk about what this does. For the super wealthy.

Yes. So number one, here's what I'm thinking this does. Number one, it's a slippery slope because it's not a far cry where they go, you know what, $100 million? Let's bring that threshold down later on to $10 million or even $1 million. Just like what they did with income tax back in what, 1913, they proposed an income tax to the top 1%. That's right. Well, guess what?

Now most states have an income tax that everybody pays. Right. So that's the slippery slope argument. Except for the great state of Tennessee%. That's right. Well, guess what? Now most states have an income tax that everybody pays. Right. So that's the slippery slope argument. Except for the great state of Tennessee. That's right. That's why people are moving to Tennessee and away from other states. That's right. So one thing that could happen, Ken, is wealthy investors,

they're going to need to sell other assets to pay the tax bill because they didn't actually make the money, which could lead to more frequent trades and big swings in the stock market. So more volatility. They also could be reduced confidence and reduced excitement to even invest in the first place. If you know you're going to get dinged heavily, why would you do it? Why would you go in on investing?

So that could also slow down the growth of the economy, which I want you to talk about here. Sure. Well, this is a reverse trickle-down economics. So a little history lesson here. In the 80s, Reagan was criticized by the other side that his economic plan was called trickle-down economics, and was criticized for this. But this is a reverse of this, because the economic policy of Reagan was to create tax breaks for the wealthy because they reinvest the money.

They spend money, thus creating jobs, and everybody wins. This is, by the way, a philosophical disagreement. I can tell you right now people that are listening to this, either live or later, are going to hammer me on Instagram for what I just said. But this isn't my opinion. You can disagree with that philosophy, but there are two philosophies. There just are. There are two philosophies. There just are. There are two philosophies right now in the major party system. And so what we believe, or I should say, I won't say we, I'm not going to speak for you, George. What I believe on this

is that ultimately this is not the best way to raise government revenue. Can I tell you how much they're talking about raising here? Yeah, it's a penance. $500 billion over 10 years. And what's our national debt at right now? Over $35 trillion. revenue. Can I tell you how much they're talking about raising here? Yeah, it's a penance. 500 billion over 10 years. And what's our national debt at right now? Over $35 trillion. $35 trillion, folks. So again, folks, we're talking about real numbers. You can get mad at us all you want. You can get so mad at me, I don't care. I literally do not care. I won't even read it. I'm going to sleep like a baby tonight. Okay? Don't even care. These are facts and figures.

That amount of money will do nothing with the government spending problem. George, if the federal government called in on the line and you took the call and they said, we got $35 trillion in debt, George, what's the first thing you're going to tell them to do? Cut the spending? Cut spending. You're not, it's a both and, but taxing the super wealthy seems very popular, but by the way, it is. It's very popular with a certain amount of voters. Well, it's popular also because they're shaking the fist

at wealth inequality. Right, but here's the challenge with that. It's not fair that they have all this money. What they don't understand is, is you might as well just move somewhere else. Because a capitalistic society thrives when the wealthy reinvest the money they make. It just, that's just how it works. And so this is, again, a very popular policy designed to energize the base. I think it's bad policy. It ends up affecting the economy in negative ways. And when you see wealthy people who create jobs by investing their money and they pull back out of the economy, it affects every one of us. It will trickle down, bringing this back full circle, it is a reverse trickle down. It will trickle down in the form of pain, not prosperity.

Because when wealthy people and investors pull back to protect their money, everybody else loses. They don't lose. They don't lose. And so it creates this adversarial situation where the government's going, we got to get more money from those rich people instead of going, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Why don't we actually look at our problems? And that's what you would do. We should set up a fake call like that, James, where we have someone call in as the federal government and go, okay, we've got this budget deficit here, here, and you walk them through it. Because in a fun, simple way, it would be the same as someone calling in

with half a million dollars in debt going, we don't know what to do. And if you're going to make a change, and I did the math for you, Ken, we're talking about 1.4%. That's the revenue compared to the deficit. It's not going to touch it. One percent. Does it even keep up with the interest on the $35 trillion? The $500 billion doesn't even come close to equaling the interest on the debt. Yeah. And I'm a big national debt guy. By the way, I think that is a unifying issue that the American people ought to go, you know, what if one election we just all said, forget all the social issues that we all scream at each other about. And we forget about party lines. And we just went, let's fix the national debt so that our kids and grandchildren may have a shot at an economy that works. What if we all just voted on that and we said, all right, in the debate in September,

the candidates have to tell us how they're going to get rid of the national debt and best plan wins. Now that's a fun debate. I'd actually watch that. Because it would have to be around facts and figures and an actual plan, not insults and accusations. I'm so sick of it right now. Well, the good news, Ken, is this whole tax proposal,

it could be unconstitutional, which means it will never pass in Congress. For the record, let me piss off a lot of people right now. I think the capital gains tax is unconstitutional. I would love to debate someone on that. Fire your comments away at Instagram and Twitter. I won't even look at them. But I think it's unconstitutional. Capital gains tax.

Income tax? Constitutional. Capital gains tax, as it's laid out, not constitutional. We've already paid the taxes. It's time for another throw some tea into the harbor. I'm with you. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story, and it's a lie. In our self-obsessed society, we're obsessed about our own diets,

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support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Ramsey Radio. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. The phone number is 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel joins me, and we're excited that you are here. We're here to take your questions about your money, your income. That's the work side of things. It helps get you through these baby steps a little bit faster. Let's go to Holly, who joins us now in Medford, Oregon.

Holly, how can we help today? Hi. My question is like two pages long, and the last thing you said was keep it short. So I'm going to try to get to that. Wow. Yeah. Give us the SparkNotes, and then we'll ask more questions. How about that? That's what he said. That's what he said. Okay.

So I've been married a couple decades and some change, and I basically did the home stuff, the kids, homeschooling, and let my husband grit uh, grit and bear through all the finances, which were up and down. And, you know, like through the recession, lost everything. I never once jumped in for any details. I let him bring cash home and then I could breathe, you know, like we were fine. Uh, and then in June I went and got my hair done and somebody recommended your show.

I probably listened to $500 this summer and jumped all in on my end and which my husband is. Yeah. He's, um, he's not, he's encouraging me. He's like, I think he's relieved that I'm learning stuff, but he's not in alignment with Randy. So he's basically like, good for you. Love that for you. Bless your heart. No, no, not at all. He's relieved that I'm like, you know, stepping up and, you know, actually like because up until that point i was spending the cash we had i wasn't saving it wasn't really budgeting it we were going like on trips for for school you know like it was just dollar you know not really dollar

to dollar but like you know a couple hundred bucks left over before the next few hundred so he's happy that you reined in the spending, but... So he's happy, and I think he's waiting for me to learn more because I still don't even have enough of a grasp to have... Yes, but Holly, I'm trying to help you. George is right. We know there's something on the other side of this, because you can hear it in your voice. What level of education do you need?

But what's the tension? Just give us the tension point. Okay, so he feels disrespected when I jump in and question things. I think he feels challenged. Give us an example of when you jumped in and he felt disrespected. What happened? I guess I don't have a super specific example except that his reaction was, you know, I was asking him something. So, like, I make a little bit of money on side hustles.

I don't work quite yet because my last one's still homeschooled. And I asked him about the part of the money that he spent. He doesn't ask me about the money, the cash that I make. And, you know, inquiring in that, he's like, you know what, I'm good. And you got your stuff figured out. And, you know, I've and that, he's like, you know what, I'm good, and you got your stuff figured out, and, you know, I've got my stuff taken care of. And I think he felt, he just kind of felt like, you know, after this long, and, you know, this has been my blood, sweat, and tears.

Well, let me dive in. Kind of a thing. Let me jump in real quick. This is just classic male-female stuff, and you're just asking questions. The way you said it, I understand why he's acting that way. I'm not saying anything wrong, and you're just asking questions. The way you said it, I understand why he's acting that way. I'm not saying anything wrong, but you're basically saying, I'm asking questions about how he's spending his money. No, bad idea. The way to get involved in this is to say, hey, do you do a budget for us? Does he do a budget? Well, I know he doesn't.

Right. So my point is... Well, I guess that's not true. He doesn't, like, write down. But he has actually went to school and almost got his accounting degree. Like, he does actually know what he's doing. Do you guys have combined bank accounts? Oh, yeah. Okay. So how do you know what's going on in the finances? You know, I never really cared. I don't necessarily.

I feel like this is all overwhelming since June. I think that's where the problem is, is all of a sudden you care. Now you're a little investigator going, hey, what's going on over here? What about this? Yeah, that's the thing. I don't know what questions to ask, and I understand that the way he heard my question, he didn't hear my heart. That's right.

That's fair. I want to be more respectful. There you go. I'm not more respectful because I wasn't disrespecting but yeah it was sensitive he's it's yeah it's a sensitivity to all just hearing you talk you don't seem like the type to yell at him and go what's going on with the money over here you seem very sweet very kind and so that tells me there's also something on his side that he needs to deal with and i don't know if that's hey he has his own spending issues or he just feels like hey i want to have the control and I don't want to

relegate it. And I don't want to give her a vote because so far I've been doing a bang up job without her. Do you think that the best way for her to go about it, George, is to say, hey, I've been listening to the show, which he knows, and propose the every dollar. We'll give it to her for free. Let's give her the free every dollar. And let her, I don't know, what do you think? Let's workshop this. I'm going to guess, Holly, that communication in your marriage has never been stellar. That's true.

Also, I was going to say that, you know, since we've been married, he's owned a business and he acknowledges that he wouldn't have this business if he didn't take risks. And that is a very personal baby to him. So do you guys have a goal financially, and he's not on board? Do you guys have debt that you want to pay off? Okay, so I've been so blessed. He doesn't believe in going into a lot of debt, so he has a card that puts a couple hundred bucks on and pays off.

I'm the one that brought on the debt. I talked him into a card that I'll have paid off in a year, and when I got on the podcast, I paid it off in my eyes 10 months faster than planned because I was like, this just needs to go. It doesn't feel good. Um, but I'm, I'm one, I'm grasping at straws trying to get information into my head. Um, I actually ordered the homeschool curriculum. I don't think it was the right homeschool curriculum, but I ordered it to go through with my kids and hope it helps me too. Okay. Holly, I'm going to jump in again. I got a thought here. Okay. Okay. Um. I think you need to start over with him and go,

hey, I realize that I'm just insatiable right now, and it's coming from excitement. I didn't do a good job sharing my heart behind all this. I'm actually thrilled to learn. I am in no way trying to be an armchair quarterback or second guess your decisions at all. I still want you to take the lead on all of this. How can I learn more about our budget and learn more about our spending without making you feel attacked or like I'm second-guessing you? I would start with that. Let's let him identify and give him a chance to be heard, to go, well, yeah, when you say it this way, I think if you

were to retreat to that, I think it's probably a good place to restart. George, would you add or change any of that? Well, the one thing I would add is right now, we haven't even painted a picture of where we're trying to go and what the goal is. So right now, it's just inquisitive with no real end in mind. So that's where I think we need to reset and go, honey, listen, for the last several decades, I feel like I haven't done a good job of making this a team effort. And I know I haven't been pulling my weight and I'm trying to start a new chapter here where we forge a new path together. We hit financial goals together that we never thought were possible. And I'm ready to get more involved in the right way. And so will

you go on this journey with me? Can we sit down and make some goals as a couple? Can we pay off this car in six months instead by looking at this budget and seeing where we're actually spending and how we can do better? Can we actually invest to where we retire with dignity? Right now, you have no clue. Right. He realizes that and he encourages my education on it, but so far, it's been just a podcast. But he doesn't want your involvement. I really think he just felt like I was critiquing him. Yeah, 100%. Then why don't you lay out, hey, will you show me how you've been leading our finances?

Just say, I want you to educate me. I am in no way wanting to question what you've done or why you've done it. I just want to learn. That's good. That's good. And by the way, it's okay to say I'm sorry. And again, I don't think you've done anything. I have a bunch, honestly.

Okay. I know I didn't have to do a bunch, but I do. Yeah, good for you. You don't have to tiptoe around him. I just, well, I realize that we communicate differently, and my heart does not relay the words to reach him necessarily. And so I was looking for some words, going to eventually get the financial piece for myself. And I read the, I binge read the book. Right now, you guys aren't reading from

the same book. And that's where he needs to get involved and say, you need to say, honey, will you just go through this financial piece university stuff with me so that when I talk about it, you understand where I'm coming from. I've got a great recommendation. Hit me. Holly, this is for you. I want you to go buy the book Love Talk by Les and Leslie Parrott. In that book, it has a brief assessment with it that will teach you your love talk styles. In other words, your husband has a talk style, you have a talk style.

And I think that book, you both take it, and it's so helpful for you both to go oh this is my talk style this is her talk style and you guys it'll help you in this conversation learn how to talk to each other just based on the way you need to be communicating with I think it'd be a great book easy read go get it I highly recommend it my wife Stacy and I did it early on and it has helped us throughout our marriage so that's good helps and we'll give you every dollar so hang on the line. Christian will pick

up. We'll gift you every dollar for a year to get you guys on the same page, looking at the same playbook. Good hour, George Camel. Good stuff. This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome to the Ramsey Show, America. Thrilled you're with us. We're here to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number for you to jump in. We're here for you. 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is with me.

And we're going to start it off this hour with Ryan in Dayton, Ohio. Ryan, how can we help? Hi, how are you guys doing today? We're doing well. What's going on with you? Oh, not too much. So I am 22 years old. I just recently found out that my girlfriend is pregnant, so we are going to be getting married. Okay. She is expecting in April. The tricky part here is both of us just signed leases for apartments. Mine is up in May. Hers is up in June. Fortunately, I don't have any debt.

She has about $4,000 in credit card debt, and I would assume somewhere around $10,000 in student loan debt. Um, what I'm trying to figure out is what is the best way for us to get a home together? Um, roughly around the time, um, what, what we're planning on in just a couple of weeks, um, just having us two go get married and then have like a ceremony sometime later down the line. How soon? Give us as close as a date as possible on when you both signed these leases. On when we signed them originally?

Yeah, I thought you started the call by saying we just signed leases. Yep. So it is, it would have been, mine would have been somewhere around June 10th. Okay. Hers would have been July 20th. Okay. So about a month or two ago. Yeah. So now you're saying we need to get out of one of these leases?

What was that? You're saying you need to get out of one or both of these leases? Well, either get out of one or both of the leases and find a place together or find a way that I can pay for a place while we're both in the end of our leases and then move directly into there when they're both out. I don't understand the urgency to buy a house right now. Yeah, no. We've got a lot going on.

We've got debt to clean up. We're about to get married. There's no need to buy a house. Why not just rent somewhere and you two live there? Mm-hmm. Why the house? I guess to me in my head it just sounded like the better alternative having a home that we can call ours rather than renting somewhere.

All right, let's talk the numbers here. Let's show you, because I think emotionally that just makes sense to you. Well, I've got a baby on the way. I'm getting married. I'm a family man now. Time to get a home. Yeah, so let's run the numbers. I'm going to dig into these here.

So what is your income and what is her income? My income is about $80,000 a year. Okay. What does she make? About $15,000. What does she do? She's a server and she's in school full-time. For what? To be a nurse. And have you guys discussed what the school schedule is going to be like with baby on the way? Is she going to pause? Yep, we've been talking about that. No, she's not going to pause. Her school does offer daycare for her, and we have some family and friends involved.

Okay, so she's not going to pause. Correct. So when will she be done? She will have her associates in nursing next December. That's when she'll be able to get a job. December 25. That's when she'll be able to get a job. Okay. December 25. That helps. So in December, George, she's going to be, what would you think her starting salary is going to be? Do you guys know? Does she know? We're guesstimating somewhere around $70,000 to $75,000.

Okay. So in the not too distant future, looking at $150,000 plus combined income. And in the near future future it's closer to 100 so if i'm you guys as soon as you're married or let's combine finances and let's see if we can knock out this debt and then save up before baby's here is that possible yeah how much money do you have saved Saved? Yeah. Currently about $3,000. I'm looking at selling my truck, so I'll hopefully have around $12,000. Do you have debt on the truck?

Nope. Okay. What are you going to drive instead? Do you have another car? I have a car with no debt on it as well. Oh, great. Good for you. That's nice. That feels good.

So what do you think your chances are getting out of these leases or one of them? You just need to get out of one. Basically, George and I are saying if you can get out of one lease, you guys just have an apartment and get started with that. There's no need to rush on a house. It's going to give you so many more options. What do you think your chances are? I'm really not sure what the chances are. I was going to try to have a meeting with the owner of my place and see if we could work on that. These are totally different apartments? Not the same? Yeah. Okay. What do you know about that, George?

I mean, I've rented many apartments in my day. And what I've found is if you're kind and you work with someone who's actually capable of making a decision over there, probably not going to be the person doing the leases, probably someone above them, they're usually willing to work with you in some capacity, even if it's, hey, I know it's going to cost X, Y, Z to break a lease. Would you be willing to, if I replace myself, would you be willing to waive the fee? Something like that. And so just work with them.

And then if they, you know, say kick rocks and pound sand, go work with hers and say, would you be willing to work with us? We've got a baby on the way. We're getting married. We could not plan for all of this life change happening, and we need to get out of this lease. That's what I would do if I was an airship. You with this, Ryan?

Yep. Okay. Do you have questions about that? Are you just processing? What's going on over there? Well, I'm wondering. Here's the thing. You don't have money to buy a house, so let's just put it out of your conscience.

No house. So I'm wondering if neither of our places are exactly optimal for having a baby in them. You guys having a baby wasn't optimal, so optimal's out the window. We've got to figure out. What do you mean? Why can't a baby in them. You guys having a baby wasn't optimal, so optimal's out the window. We've got to figure out. What do you mean? Why can't a baby live in an apartment? Why aren't they optimal?

Well, no, no, no. Not that an apartment isn't optimal, just ours specifically. Why? Why? Bedroom-wise. What do you mean? How many bedrooms?

Well, I have two bedrooms, but we have two dogs as well. The dogs can freaking sleep on the couch in the living room. Baby sleeps in the other bedroom. Are you out of your mind? You're going to put the dogs in the bedroom? No, not the dogs in the bedroom. I just figured the square footage would be a little small for all that.

What? The baby's tiny. So I wondered if maybe getting a bigger apartment. Like, we get out of one week get a bigger apartment for us. As the dad of a one-year-old, let me tell you, the baby sleeps in a little bassinet next to your bed for the first like six months.

Yeah. So you don't need a nursery. Ryan, we're not trying to be unkind. I'm sorry. I'm 50 and I've been through all this. I have no patience for this kind of thinking. It's not you. It's me. But here's the deal, Ryan. You don't need something bigger. You just need a basic apartment. It's a little teeny tiny baby. You could be in that apartment for two

or three years, even with the dogs. We're trying to save you money. And maybe down the line, you talk to the apartment and say, hey, is there a two-bedroom available that's in our budget, and can we upgrade to that with no fees? So this is where we get creative, but the conclusion is not, well, we gotta go buy a house even though we're broke. That's not the solution. We gotta make sure we have money stacked so that baby and

mom are home safe, then we can push play on the baby steps, knock out the rest of the debt, get the emergency fund. And I think you can do all that. Making $100,000 with very little debt. Let's knock it out and get some savings ready. Can I tell you why I'm so ornery about this? Tell me. My mom and dad told me recently that they, when I was born, we lived in a one-bedroom, 900-square-foot apartment.

That's right. Over a pharmacy. And look at Ken. Exactly. You're an uphill, both ways kind of guy. I like that about you. Just say it. Oh, my gosh. This is at Ken. Exactly. You're an uphill both ways kind of guy. I like that about you. Just saying. Oh my gosh.

This is a Ramsey show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of next week, in the middle of all that grief, like it's just it is it's terrible. So

life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. This is the Ramsey Show where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. George

Camel joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. If you're in default with private student loans, you need to contact WhyRefi. Now, obviously, we don't encourage letting your loans get into default. We teach responsibility, but these amounts have some of you struggling, and this is a way forward. WhyRefi was created for people in your situation. So go to whyrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's why, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Rachel in Iowa. I'm a newly single mom after 15 years of marriage to a cheating alcoholic. Is it worth going $25,000 into debt to get a master's in accounting in order to have a

career? For the last 10 years, I've worked small jobs only for extra cash, so I never had a career. I'm in my early 40s and my kids are both under 12. I want time with them and I want financial security. I'm tired of working outside the home and having my parents raise my kids while we live paycheck to paycheck. As an accountant, I think I could build a career out of my own home. Is this worth pursuing? I'm going to say not now. Down the road, maybe. This is one where going back and forth with someone on the phone, George, would be helpful to kind of see,

all right, give us the projected income. Where do you think this is going? She knows her industry better than I do. But at this point, if what she's looking for, and there's a heavy dose of, I'm tired of working outside the home. I want my kids around. I think in today's world, she could really build a nice bookkeeping business. And a bookkeeping business with her accounting skills is just one idea to where she could start it on the side, keep her day job, get her bookkeeping business going. And if she can get it to the point where the bookkeeping business is paying her what she's making in her day job, then and only then does she move over. And then she can work from home. She can work from anywhere doing bookkeeping for small businesses, small, medium-sized businesses, some specialty, you

know, boutique accounting needs, if she's got some kind of niche ideas and ways she can help. That would be the direction I would recommend to her based on what she has submitted in this question. Absolutely. So she doesn't need the masters in accounting to provide that service. And the other piece of this, is it worth going $25,000 into debt? Absolutely not. Don't do that. And only do it when you can cash flow it. And that might mean taking Ken's advice and putting

money aside every single month. And that might mean, hey, you know, two grand a month for 12 months, I'll be able to cash flow it. Or a grand a month for two years, now I'm able to cash flow it. And so we need to get the income up in the meantime, but don't shortcut it right now. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. All right, do my eyes deceive me, George? Or is Chris calling in from Brisbane? Or is Brisbane? Brisbane?

Australia? We'll see how you're supposed to say it. Chris, Aussie, Aussie, Aussie. How you going? Good, how are you? Did I say that right? Is it Brisbane or Brisbane? Brisbane, I think.

Yeah, about an hour out of Brisbane. So an hour west away from the coast of Brisbane, yeah. I love this already. Very good. I love it. I can hear you read children's stories to me. It would be fantastic. How can we help you?

Hey, I was just wondering if you got any advice for me. I'm self-employed. I'm very driven by goals and dreams, and I've tackled my first goal, and I'm struggling on my second one. What was your first goal? My first goal was I'm in business. My first goal was to make $1,000 a day of turnover of the company and then to make $1,000 a profit and then $1,000 a wage per day. I hit all them targets.

That goal was set in 2011. Fantastic. Whoa. You've been at this a long time. Yeah. I've been sitting here dormant, not really knowing what to do, and I've set a new goal here a month ago to hit a million dollars as a million dollars paid to me for the year.

Okay. I'm struggling. I'm struggling to keep a dream alive here. Okay, tell me what do you mean by I'm struggling? My problem is, again, is like I've got an electrical business, so I'm a tradesman, a contractor, and I need about $482,000 a year now from that. I play with farms, with property, or ranches or whatever you'd call it.

And I've got money there, but I can't touch any money. I'm making about $497 a year in property going up, so I keep developing them. But I've just got no money. We're all making all this money, but I've got no money. Where is it going? How would you even spend that much? We've got a lot of debt.

So I've currently got a million dollars in debt in property, and I've got off my head around about $400,000 in debt in machinery. I've just started with your like baby steps and i've i've i plan to be there debt free in 6.6 years as the current steps here um but yeah i'm just i'm wondering do i need to change my dream there and or do i just go get a job make my life a little less stressful you're doing great on the income side. You're making good money. You just made some decisions along the way that eventually caught up to you. All right, let me jump in really fast here.

George will walk you through the debt thing, but I want to jump in a little bit on this equipment thing. So the equipment is what you use for your electrician business. Oh, yeah. So if I were to sell everything in electrical, I would walk away with $500,000. I'm not upside down in anything. Right. So let me ask a question. So $500,000 in assets on electrical.

So could you, but could you rent the same equipment and build that into the cost of your jobs? Not really. No. We finance, so our cars that we're running, our cars are financed there. And we'd write down, look, most of these electrical, I'll be in baby step two, is in machinery. I'm 18 months off being debt-free. And then it's tackling property after that.

Okay. I'm not sure you answered my question. Sorry. Yeah. It's okay. So this equipment that you have, which you're into debt for, and you could sell it. So my biggest, if I could just quickly run you past it, I've got a few pickup. One, I only owe five grand on it.

Another seven. Another one at 40. Another one at 50. Oh, so these are cars that you're using for the business? Yeah. And trucks. And so the big ones for sale right now, and hopefully that will ease up a bit of pressure here. So that's a $70,000 sale that we're trying to sell at the moment, and that will get rid of the $50,000 loan. My wife's SUV, its finance is $60,000. It's worth $150,000, $155,000. You're spending like the American Congress, man.

There's nothing wrong with your dream. This is nothing wrong with your dream. You just have a discipline problem, and I would sell that property if I could make money on that property. One of my dreams, my exit plan immediately if I had to, one property I owe $535,000 on it, and it just had a valuation there last month at $2.22 million. Wow.

So I could sell that. I've owned it for four years. I paid $2.22 million. Wow. So I could sell that. I've owned it for four years. I paid $550,000. Yeah, but George, what's going to change if he sells that property, if he doesn't change his discipline? Well, that's where I'm guilty, Ken. I'll give you a confession. My plan was to sell that property, buy another property.

Oh, boy. And so I've got another farm here just settling here in 30 days. I bought it for 700 grand. So I'm hoping sell that, buy the next one. You know what your problem is? And I should be coming out around a bit debt-free. You're so focused on dreams that you create nightmares for yourself. All of this is all you. It's all you. It is. By the way, it's all easily unwrappable, isn't it, George? Yes. You've got 40 seconds. Give me a little locker room talk. Chris, I think you need to change your goal from making a million.

Let's say I'm going to be debt-free a year from now. And that might mean making a million. It might mean selling property. It might mean selling all this crap. And then you're going to restart and go, now I'm going to restart debt-free. I'm going to move at the speed of cash, only buy property when I have the cash to do it in full, only buy the truck when I have the cash to do it in full. only buy the truck when I have the cash to do it in full, you're really good at making money. The problem is you're even

better at spending it. And I think both we can get under control, my friend. Well said. You need a whistle and a hat. Just love Chris. More Australian callers. Please call us, guys. Yeah, wasn't that great? So lovely. Man, I wish I had that accent. You'd be more likable, that's for sure. Is that right?

Yeah. Alright, I'll work on it. This is the more likable. That's for sure. Is that right? Yeah. All right, I'll work on it. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved

through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them

and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is alongside, and we are here for you. 888-825-5225. We want to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. I'll bet you didn't know something, George. I'll bet you didn't know what I'm about to tell you. Hit me. Do you know who billionaire Howard Hughes is? Are you not old enough?

I don't know all the billionaires. Okay. Howard Hughes, one of the most eccentric billionaires of all time. Interestingly enough, Leonardo DiCaprio played him. Maybe one of the best acting jobs Leo has ever done. But he was known as one of the richest men in the world. And when he died in April of 1976, would you believe, George, that he died without a will? I cannot imagine a billionaire. One of the richest men in the world dies without

a will. Now, here's what happened. Over 600 people came forward claiming to have an interest in the fortune. In the end, a judge decided the $2.5 billion fortune would be split between 22 of Hughes' legal cousins. What I wouldn't get to be one of Hughes' cousins. Yeah, and this happened in 1983, so it drug out that long. Here's the point, because I know you're wondering, where in the world are you going with this, Ken? Don't be Howard Hughes. Don't let the government decide.

Don't let a judge decide where your inheritance goes when you can leave it to the people and do it with order. We want to challenge you to create your will in the month of August. It takes less than five minutes. You can find out online, find out how to do the will online at ramsaysolutions.com slash wills quiz. Okay. And an online will could work for you. You may need something more complex. That's why we want you to just take this quick little quiz, ramsaysolutions.com slash wills quiz. And if in fact you can simply do it online, you can click the link in the description. If you're listening on YouTube or podcast, if you do find that the online will

fit your situation, you can get 25% off when you use the promo code will month, one word will month at checkout during the month of August. So there you go. Get it done. Get it done. And for most people, for most, an online Will Month. It worked for me. It'll do the job. That's exactly where I got it done. All right, let's go to Detroit, Michigan, where Anna awaits. Anna, how can we help?

Hello. Hi. Hi, how are you guys? We're having a blast. What's going on with you? So I just have a question about savings. Can you save too much? And I guess what should we do with some of the extra money that my husband and I make? So we have like an 18-month emergency fund, which I know is probably overkill. Do you know something we don't? Is the apocalypse nigh?

Just tell us. No, I just think we're, I don't know, afraid to spend money a little bit. At least definitely I am. And then, you know, we also have, we stay for retirement. We have no debt. And then we have like another like $65,000 that's not the emergency fund and that just keeps accumulating money every month. I guess I'm not sure like what we should do. You know, we have kind of some dreams of maybe finishing our basement or... I would put the money to work. I think savings is a great spot for your emergency fund, but anything above and beyond that, either invest it in the market so that you're beating inflation or put it to your next goal, your next project, something that excites you,

spend a little bit. There's only a few things you can do with money, spend it, save it, or give it. And I think right now you're really good at saving it and you're not great at spending it. And I assume you're probably not great at giving it. Yeah, that could use some work too. And so that's where the budget... It helps family and friends out but do you guys do a budget right now yeah we do we do the every dollar every dollar budget every month what's driving this fear um i don't really know i mean we kind of both my husband and i grew up um you know more so my husband we grew up with no money, like no presents on Christmas and things like that.

So I don't know if it somehow comes from there. That would do it. A scarcity mindset. He's never actually faced that. And it's just, you know, we're just so, I'm a stay-at-home mom. I left my job to be a mom. So I think that's also a fear of mine is that, you know, we only have one income. Have you two, since you've been married, ever done anything mind-numbingly stupid

with money? No. Have you gotten anywhere within about a mile of mind-numbingly stupid? No. What do you think the chances are that you and your husband are going to do something mind-numbingly stupid with money? Zero. Okay. Maybe we should start to act like it. What was that? Start acting like it. Start acting like you're not a moron with money because you're not, and you're never going to do anything moronic at all.

So what I was trying to do is have a little bit of fun to help you see how your fear is irrational. That if you're going to spend some, it's not going to spin you out of control. Right. So I guess like how much do you know? I mean, besides like the emergency fund that you talked about. I think having six months in the emergency fund is great. Anything above and beyond that, I don't think you need unless you have an immediate goal.

Let's say a one-year goal ahead of you where you know you want to renovate the basement. Let's set aside 50 grand for that and let's get it done. Let's get some bids. Let's jump on it. Otherwise, if it's a three or four or five-plus-year goal, I would be investing that in the market, either in retirement or in a non-retirement account. Okay.

But, Anna, you're familiar with our baby steps, aren't you? Yep. Okay, so what do we tell you? Three to six months in baby step three, then baby step four, which, by the way, you're well beyond that. George just laid that out. Baby step four is what? 15%.

It's been so long, yeah. It's okay. How much are you investing right now as a household? What's the percentage? It's like 24% towards retirement accounts. My husband just changed jobs. Actually, that is something I guess we did. He was at a more stressful job, higher paying job,

and we just transitioned to be home more. It was a pay cut. But that's the kind of freedom that you can buy when you follow the plan. Do you guys have a mortgage or do you pay that off? Yeah, we paid that off three years ago. Amazing. So you're doing all the right things. We need to hit the accelerator on some fun and some giving.

Yeah. Which, by the way, is really fun. So this is what I would do. As a tactical exercise, you and your husband sit down with the every dollar budget, and you're going to increase Anna's fun money, and he's going to increase his fun money. We're going to set a goal to go on a vacation that would have hurt to go on a while ago because you're like, $10,000 for a vacation? We don't need that.

You're right. But you guys have worked so hard that you've actually earned it. Yeah, okay. And then on the giving side, there's probably not a lot in the giving line item. So let's add a spontaneous one. Hey, we see an opportunity. We're just going to give. We're going to fund the single mom to get her car fixed. We're going to start giving to a nonprofit we're excited about.

If you go to a local church, we're going to start tithing. I think we need to just, we need to get that flat tire filled up. But I want to dig here, Anna. Everything George said made total sense to you. And then you still said, it's just, finish that sentence. It's just what? I don't know. I'm not sure. I guess my husband and I, we talked about he had vacation picks coming up, and I'm like, we need to go to a vacation. We need to just go somewhere. Like to Florida, I don't know.

Go somewhere warm in the winter and go on a vacation, and then it's just, I don't know, it just feels wrong to take the money out of our account to buy the vacation. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Do both of you, when you start talking, so this conversation, let's go to Florida and have a great vacation. Does one of you start the whole, oh gosh, this feels so bad to pull the money out. Or is it both of you? No, I think my husband, he's afraid of flying. And so I think that when we have a, we have a year old baby that we just had. And so I think maybe that's where his hesitation comes

from. No, you just changed. You know, he's the one that's like, go buy a new pair of shoes. You need new shoes, go do that. And I'm like, Oh, but they can last. So I think my husband, no, it's both of you. And by the way, you didn't even answer the question. Cause I said, what's the deal? And you went, well, it's because he doesn't like to fly. Well, you guys can drive. I think you both are in that mindset. You're just terrified to spend any money because you think that the big, bad money monster is going to just come out of the sky and squash you. I think it's that crazy. And I say that with love to say, you guys have got to baby

step into it a little bit. It's almost like maybe you guys should just have the grandparents watch the baby one night and you go away for one night and maybe it's not a five-star hotel, but maybe a four. Anna, you've done nothing wrong. You haven't stolen this money. Don't feel bad using it. Money is just a tool. It is amoral. And if you're using it for anything other than a tool, you're doing it wrong. It is not a god to be worshipped. You're not trying to build a temple of dollars that you can pass down to your kids.

Enjoy the money. That's all we're saying. And that's going to take a while. It's going to hurt. It's going to hurt to write a few of those checks. And then you'll get used to it. And that will start to take a while. It's going to hurt. It's going to hurt to write a few of those checks, and then you'll get used to it. And that will start to unlock some things. Does anybody write checks anymore?

I do. Feels good. Do you really? I feel old school, old timey. I want to see you write a check. I need to see that to believe it. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. We're so excited that you are with us. And we're going to get right back to the phones, 888-825-5225. Tracy is joining us now near Wichita, Kansas. Tracy, how can we help? Yeah, I was just curious if you recommend financing my business for growth potential. Probably. What do you think we're going to say? I would say no. Yeah.

Tell us about the business. It's a personal training business. I've been in it for 14 years. I'm debt-free, and I've applied everything that you guys have spoken of, and I've applied that to my personal business. Great. But if I continue at my rate, I cannot save enough at my current savings rate in order to do what I wanted to do in business. Which is what?

Until it's time to retire. I get into sports science and provide a broader service to the community. And so the financing would be for what? Building and equipment? Financing to start with would be a market analysis to identify the growth potential and to identify the plan to go forward. How much? That'd be $10,000. I would never in a million years finance $10,000 to grow any business because if you can't scrape that together, you shouldn't even be thinking about it. Well, I can scrape it together, but I don't know if I should take that leap. Then you probably shouldn't be considering doing this thing because it's like,

if I'm not willing to put my money into the $10,000 study, I probably shouldn't borrow someone else's money to do it. There's your ultimate litmus test. I mean, that's the smell test right there. Okay. If it's too risky to use your own money, it's way too risky to use someone else's. That's the spark notes. George, way to come in and clean up. I come in, I just lay out a tweet to help them out. Thank you very much. So Tracy, is there another way to do this? Is there a cheaper way? Yeah, well, my concern is, once again, I get the marketing plan analysis done, and it's going to come back and say, you're going to need $50,000 more. I'm confused why you need this analysis.

I want to make sure that it's going to work before I jump into the... But what can't you do that they can, whoever they is that you're going to give this money to? Yeah, I'd be a marketing group, and it's the... Who's selling this to you? How'd you hear about this? It just feels fishy to me. There's a marketing group, and they came and they talked with us, and he says if you don't do anything else, he recommends doing the marketing plan. Of course he does. Here's the deal. There's nothing out

there that they're going to tell you that you couldn't find through YouTube, through a one-on-one coach, a mentor in business that you could even pay an hourly fee to. But I think truthfully, you can figure this out on your own and try out the marketing on your own and see what works for your specific business without dropping 10 grand. I'm going to add to what George said, Tracy. If I'm you, I would start finding out who's doing what you want to do. And if you give me the old, well, nobody's doing it exactly that way. I'll go, okay, then go find some people who are doing something similar. And you know what I would do with the 10 grand? I'd spend a fraction of that. I'd go find somebody, and I'm making this up,

but let's say somebody's doing something similar to what you want to do. You know what I'd do? I'd say, hey, what's a day of your time worth? What's it worth? And if they say $1,500, go, I'm going to give you $1,500, and I'm going to fly to you, and if you don't have a boardroom, I'm going to find a local hotel that's got one, and we're going to get in that room for eight hours,

and I'm going to learn everything I can learn from you. To me, that's what George is talking about, and to me, that's the kind of knowledge. I don't want some marketing group who's never spent a second, a second, actually operating the business that you want to operate. Tell me anything about the market analysis. They don't know what they're doing. Can I give you a $10,000 crash course that you could get for, tell me anything about the market analysis. They don't know what they're doing. Can I give you a $10,000 crash course that you could get for $20 today, Tracy?

What's that? Two books. Number one is Steal Like an Artist from Austin Kleon. Like what Ken was saying, go look at what other people are doing and make it your own. The other book is Marketing Made Simple from Donald Miller. Those two books alone should get you very far. If you go apply it, try it, you're going to have a little failure on the way. But if you do it with cash and you're testing it

all out, you're not going to fall flat on your face. Okay. But even then, and those are great books, but even then, those books are only helpful to the sense that you understand what it is you're trying to pull off. I'm telling you, I'd pay a couple of business owners to sit with you and download the good, the bad, the ugly, what they did right, what they did wrong. That to me, it's a fraction of the cost. I think that's, if I was in your business, that's what I'd want to know. Okay. Appreciate your time. Thank you.

You bet. Thanks for the call call i'm really glad he called if i'm gonna spare him ten thousand dollars i've done my good deed well you snoop that out quick and he literally said to you he goes you know this marketing company came by and told me at a minimum do some market analysis because here's the deal they spin that so that the market analysis makes you go well that's just part of doing business. And they go, we could help you for an extra 50 grand. We can implement this for you ourselves. That's how these companies work. I'm not saying they're a scam.

No, but his gut, by the way, is the ultimate answer to that. He was like, I don't know if it's worth 10 grand, so let me go finance it. Well, no. If it doesn't work out, guess what? You still owe the money, even if you've got no progress in the business. That's the scary part. All right, let's get to Dennis now in the Orlando, Florida area. Dennis, how can we help?

Hi, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I appreciate what you guys do. Thank you. That's what. What's up? I wanted to talk about taxes there. So I've been putting money into my 401K based on my tax preparer that I've had for a couple of years there.

He mentioned doing a max amount on your 401k, despite me being in debt there. But he mentioned, because I'm just learning more and more about you guys there. He mentioned putting in as much max amount on a 401k, you and me and my wife there, so that our taxes are lower in April of next year. So we don't have to pay as much max amount of 401k you and my me and my wife there so that our taxes are lower in april of next year so we don't have to pay as much in taxes there so basically to lower the amount that can be taxed there and i was uh and unfortunately he did pass away about a month ago so i'm looking into a blue taxpayer there and i'm checking to see if that is still the right move even though i i'm just learning about you guys there. So I'm learning about debt and not putting stuff into 401k until much later on in these steps that you guys have there.

Because right now I'm in maybe, I think, two because I'm paying off a lot of debt there. And I wanted to see what you guys thought about that. To lower your taxes that you have to pay for next year, April. I would not do that. Spending 10 grand to save two grand is not good math. And so while it's great that you can, when you contribute to a traditional 401k, there are tax deductions. When you do it in a Roth, you've already paid the taxes. You don't get any benefit there, but you've already paid the taxes, so that's nice. But you're in baby step two. You're trying to pay off debt. I would pause all investing until you've knocked out the debt, because truthfully,

you don't have money to invest right now. And that's what I'm thinking there, because I mean, I just learned about you guys here, so I've been with my tax preparer for years until they passed away, like a couple months ago, so I'm just like, wow, I'm considered broke. I didn't even realize it there. I'm a physician that I'm like, whoa, I didn't realize I'm considered broke. I didn't even realize it there. And I'm a physician that I'm

like, whoa, I didn't realize I'm considered broke. Well, think about the job of a tax pro is to help you save money on your taxes, right? And that's great for that. But they also are advising you to do things that involve your personal finances, investing, all kinds of things that could lead you down a different path. And I think right now you need to go down the path of debt freedom, get the emergency fund, and begin investing. And if you want to reach out to a new tax pro, so sorry that yours passed away. You sounded like a great person. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash tax, and we can get you connected with a Ramsey-trusted, vetted tax pro in your area who can help. Yeah. Wow. That's sad, but a lot of people

out there that can help. Thank you for the call, Dennis. Great advice there on that, George. Very succinct. Why spend 10 to save two? Never do something for the, you know, I'm going to get a tax with savings. Don't do that. I've never understood that. And a lot of tax people are telling people, oh, go spend more money. How about save it? I'd rather have more money and pay taxes on it than spend money that I don't really need. Or don't have in this case. Oh, in this case, yeah. Hey, for those of you that are watching on YouTube or listening via your favorite podcast app, the show is about to end, but we've got more calls coming up in the Ramsey Network mobile app. It's new to all of you who may not have heard about it. The Ramsey Network app is the only place to finish the full episodes of the Ramsey Show. If you're listening on radio, that doesn't apply

to you. We'll be back after a quick commercial break. Remember, two ways to get the app. Click on the link in the show notes or search Ramsey Network in the App Store or on Google Play. You don't want to miss what's coming up. I'm looking at the board. A couple of doozies. I'm going to have to warm up. Maybe have to stretch a little bit. Some lunges? Head on over to the Ramsey app. Good hour, George. We'll be right back. Before you know it, this is the Ramsey Show. This is the Ramsey Show

where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is with me. The phone number is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Austin, Texas to get it started this hour. Ashley is there. Ashley, how can we help? Hi, thank you so much for taking my question. Pretty new to the program. I kind of came to this point because me and my fiance were noticing that our bank account's not growing, not depleting either. So we decided to look into the

Baby Step program and kind of develop a budget. And we're kind of hung up on step two, taking down our debt. We have some cash, about $20,000 worth of cash. But I just have a hard time taking my savings and paying off the debt. I feel it's a scary jump for me. Yeah, we've heard this many, many times. So you're normal. That's a normal fear. George, you've worked really hard to get this $20,000 saved, haven't you? Right.

And can I tell you how easy it is to go into $20,000 worth of debt? It takes no effort whatsoever. That's right. I mean, we let 17-year-olds get $120,000 for a random social studies degree. So all that to say, you're right, and that's a different feeling. But here's the deal. That money isn't really yours when you owe that same $20,000 to someone else. So physically, it feels good because it's on your side right now. But there's a lot of risk on the other side of still owing that $20,000. So what kind of debt is that that you have? So we have a car loan that's about $50,000.

And then we do have a big family. We are the Brady Bunch, so needed a big vehicle. And then we have some medical bills that are probably with some credit card combined around $10,000. And then we have a personal loan that's about $80,000. Whoa. What was that for? That was some renovation that was done on our home that was much needed.

We have an older home, but we've decided to stay here because it was financed at a great rate and the house payment is livable. But we did need to add an addition to the room or to the home. It feels like your life so far has been, we need to, we need to, we need to, and here you are with $150,000 in consumer debt going, what do we do now? Right. We haven't been, I don't feel as if we are strapped for cash. I mean, we take home together about $11,000 a month. Good. But I do feel like we needed to budget. But you also told me your bank account isn't growing. So every one of those $11,000 disappears largely into debt payments. Right. So that part scares me more than losing the $20,000 saved.

Yeah. And let me point out too, how quickly you get that $20,000 back in the form of savings once you pay all this debt down. If you start walking down the spreadsheet of what your monthly minimum payments are on all those debts, it's pretty frightening, isn't it? It's a lot, yes. What would it add up to if you took up all your debt payments you're making right now per month? The monthly, I sat down and did this math, and it's kind of overwhelming, but I think it came to roughly around $2,500. So think about that. That would be a $30,000 raise of net income every month if you paid off this debt. Would that give you some margin?

Yeah. That means if you did nothing differently, you would be able to have an extra $30,000 every year sitting in savings or an extra 30-year invested. You can max out a 401k with that. And the math makes sense. Maybe I'm just here for some moral support because i'm terrified well you guys have a great income and so the key is now doing the budget and going okay in every dollar we're going to list out our income that's 11 000 now our expenses you're going to list out all the debts with their minimum payments you're going to list out your food shelter utilities transportation you know insurance and then beyond that we're going to try to limit all

extra expenses. Now, you said it's like Brady Bunch. So I imagine there's a lot of little expenses that get sort of forgotten about loss and you go, oh, I forgot we had to buy that. That's the hard part of making the budget is I can't keep up with all the small things. Yeah. Well, part of it is we're going to do our best to estimate how much it's going to be and then do our best to maintain that number. And so you want to make it realistic. We don't want to say we're going to spend $200 on food this month and then it costs you $900 every month to feed all those people. Right. But it also makes you go, you know what? We eat out a lot because cooking for this many people is a chore. Yeah. And so we got to figure out ways we can meal prep.

Maybe we get some help from the family to everywhere cooking together. But we need to get creative and look at where our money is going and then cut all those expenses while looking at the income and saying, hey, could we do better here? What's the smallest debt you have? Was it the $10,000? Did I hear that right? It's an accumulation of $10,000, but it's the several small 0% interest, like braces and things like that. Okay. So you look at those monthly payments on all of those that are equaling $10,000, and then you were to just take half of the $20,000 you got right there and knock that out,

all of a sudden you've got some real momentum. Here's the point I want to make. You said you came for moral support for George and I, so I'm going to take a stab at that. Okay. So the moral support is this. You're afraid to spend $20,000 that you worked really hard to save because of the fear factor and how you might need it, but you weren't afraid to go borrow $80,000 for this, $10,000 here, whatever. So you've spent that money. It was just someone else.

Now you owe it, but you went and spent money you didn't have. And so now we're trying to reconcile spending the $20,000 we do have to get us out of the mess. And it's essentially the old phrase, you have to spend money to make money. Do you remember that? Right. In this case, you actually have to spend the $ make money. Do you remember that? Right. In this case, you

actually have to spend the $20,000 to pay the debt off, and that gets you going. And to George's point, when you get rid of all that debt, you get a $30,000 raise. But you will never get the $30,000 raise if you just keep messing around with this debt like a cat does with a ball of yarn. How aggressive are you willing to get to get rid of this debt? Do you want to be on like a six-year plan to pay it off or do you want to be on a two-year plan? I want to be on a two-year plan. So what would that take? What is your total consumer debt that you have? The braces, everything, everything you owe money on, what's the total number? Outside of the mortgage? Outside of the mortgage. We're looking at $140,000. Okay. So let's do some quick napkin math here. $140,000 in 24 months, you need to put $5,800 a month toward that debt. Could you do that right now?

My guess is no. Is there six grand worth of margin to be found? Probably not. Maybe closer to four. Okay. And now we know the gap. Okay. If we do four, well, guess how long it's going to take? Let me do the math for you on this. Four times 24, you'd pay off 96,000 in two years. Well, that doesn't include the 19 if we wipe out 19 of the 20 in savings. Exactly. So you see how we can build some momentum and that'll speed up your timeline. Now we can go, okay, can we make a little more money? Can we pause investing? Are we getting a return on our taxes, a refund that we can change our withholdings on? This is where you get really creative and we can really help you with that. Hang on the line.

I'm going to send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke, my bestselling book. It's got a lot of options in there for you to get creative. Read the Margin is Breathing Room chapter specifically. So hang on the line. Christian will get you a copy of that. I hope it helps on this journey. Thanks for the call. Ashley, you can do it. George, tell her. You can do it. There it is. We believe in you. Does Ashley believe in you? That's the question. That's the million dollar question this is the ramsey show welcome back to the ramsey show i'm ken coleman and george camel is with me triple eight eight two five five two two five is the phone number to jump in uh boy oh boy

we got some deals right now george you You like the deals, don't you? I love a good deal. All right. Some of you need to stop wasting time and energy just kind of going through the motions on Monday mornings. You need a job that you really love that has a ladder for you to make some money. And if you want to figure out what that is, set yourself up to grow and not just grow professionally, but grow financially. The Get Clear Career Assessment is for you. It'll really help you with self-awareness as to who am I as a professional. What's that niche for me where I can make the money I want to make? For five days only, it's $5 off.

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The assessment itself is a beautiful report, very robust. $5 off now at ramseysolutions.com slash sale for the Get Clear Career Assessment. Hurry, the sale ends August 31st. All right, let's go to Ty, who's joining us now in Philadelphia. Ty, how can we help? Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call today. You bet. What's up? All right, so I am 20 years old. I'm currently a college student,

and this past summer I decided to take a sales job, kind of to make some money during the off-season of school. And in the three months that I worked, I made $33,000. And now right now I'm back at school and I feel like I made the wrong decision by going back to school. It wasn't a job that was like summer only. It was a job that could be a full-time job if I really wanted to be, but I ended up telling them that I was planning on going back to school. Did you enjoy it beyond making $11,000 a month? So the thing was that I was working very long hours,

usually anywhere from 8 to 12 hours a day. It was like an in-house appointment job, so I was driving from one appointment to the next. So it was very time-consuming, and kind of by then I was driving from one appointment to the next. So it was very time consuming and kind of by then I was starting to get a little bit tired of it. But now that I'm back at school, I'm not really doing, you know, 10 to 12 hour work days like that. I really am missing the paychecks for sure. Yeah. But, but if the, if the, if you had made $12,000 total instead of 33, do you think you would be wondering about,

did I make the right move to go back to school? Probably not as much, no. Okay. So here's my point. I think there's a couple things going on here. I think you could be questioning school in general, and I'm all for that. I have a two-part question that I teach people, which is if school, college, a degree, is not the only way to get where you want to go, or if it's not the best way to get where you want to go, I wouldn't do it. In other words, it's just summer camp on steroids at that point. So I think we've got to look at what's really going on as to where do you want to go. But I'm concerned that I wouldn't drop out yet because the only

thing motivating you to go back to this job that was really long and really hard was the 11 grand a month. Now, let me just say this. I don't have a problem if you choose to do that either, but know that that is nothing more than an entry level for you to get you out there and maybe help fund what the real future is if the future doesn't need a degree. So do you see what I just did there? Are you still tracking with me where I've led you so far? Yeah. So the question is, what do you think you want to do?

Because I don't think it's the major or the degree that you're thinking about. Is that right? So I went to school for exercise science because when I was in high school, I really wanted to be an athletic trainer or work as a strength coach. But as my years in school went on, I started to switch. Maybe I want to get into medical sales, really primarily because of the fact that athletic training, strength coach, conditioning, salaries really aren't that great even when you're there for 10, 15 years.

In medical sales, you have the potential to make as much as you great. That's correct. Even when you're there for 10, 15 years. And in medical sales, you have the potential to make as much as you want. That's correct. Where did this sort of obsession come from of, I just want to make as much money as I can? Because it went from, I really want to, you want to help people with a physical need to, forget it. It doesn't make enough money. Because there's a lot of things that pay a lot of money, but you could be miserable doing it. And a year later you might be going i'm burnt out i'm gonna go become a trainer yeah i really think the change came when i took out my student loans like right now i'm currently thirty five thousand dollars in student loans and um i didn't have i barely had any money on bank account because i wasn't saving up uh for school and then i started to panic really and

that's where i decided i needed to get a better job. And I was working maintenance on the side before I started the sales job. I was making like two grand a month. And then I realized, like, I need to get a job that's making me much more money than what I am so I can pay off these two bills. Yeah, but what do you love most about

being the strength coach or the athletic trainer? Did you taste enough of it, get enough of it to know what you loved about it? I mean, really, my main thing was that I've always been an avid gym goer. I've really loved working out and playing sports growing up and that's kind of why I wanted to turn it into a career path. And I think that I really did want to help people before I went to school. That's what my plan was and that's kind of why I feel like medical sales would be a good route for me as well too because um you know i'm not helping people one-on-one necessarily

but i'm providing the tools uh needed to you know help save lives and then you can get in the gym you can volunteer as a coach be a part-time coach maybe support a local football team you can't do the training but maybe the strength coach or something like that. So you can still scratch that itch. Yeah. Listen, I'm okay with it as long as there is a missional result attached to the work, because here's what I know. If you are doing work that creates a result that doesn't connect to your values, you will eventually lose your soul. You will burn out from sheer lack of meaning. Does it make sense? Yeah. So for instance, what you were currently selling at Summer Job, that's not it, right? What were you selling? It was roofing. Yeah. Listen, there's nothing

wrong with that. It's a good job. You were crushing it. But you, you, there's no values connection. There's no missional result. You go, what am I, what am I selling here? I'm selling safety efficiency versus if you're selling a medical device, uh, maybe it's achievement and influence you're selling. I don't know. You got to make that connection. And so that's what George and I are cautioning you right now. It's like, if I just go and I drop out of school and I go make big money in sales, I'm still always going to be searching because here's what will happen. You keep crushing it like that financially, and hopefully you don't get into more debt and you live the way we teach you to live and you're investing and you're crushing it.

You're still going to be looking for that meaningful result at work. So if you're going to sell, sell something that you can make a values connection to. I understand what you're saying. I get that. Because then you're waking up on Monday mornings and you're fired up, not just by the money, but by the end result of this product or service that you're selling. In this case, medical devices, it's a device that in many ways is life-saving or life-changing. And as long as you make that connection, George, then I think you can, because here's the deal, after so much money, the motivation

runs dry. The stuff is no longer exciting. Oh, yeah. Dave says you eat enough lobster, eventually it tastes like soap. And so the money's going to lose its luster, and eventually you're going to go, I'm making 300 grand a year, and I'm miserable. I'm burnt out. My health is poor. So we'd rather you at 20. You're very talented, obviously. You can do anything and go make good money doing it. So just do something that's worth getting up for. Yeah. So I would say I'm fine with you dropping out of college, Ty, if we're dropping into something. In other words, we're jumping off of a plane onto a targeted field. We know exactly what we're jumping. We're not just, whee, here we go.

Let's just go try to find a medical sales job. Yeah. There it is. All right, my man. Can I send him your book, From Paycheck to Purpose? Yes. Yes. I would love that.

I feel like that's going to be a good one for him. And let's also give him proximity principle because if he wants to get into medical device sales, I want him hanging out with people that are in medical device. Should we go ahead and just give him the Get Clear assessment too? Well, sure. Fine. You're getting the whole kit and caboodle, Ty. You're getting everything Ken Coleman's ever done.

Well, those three books is more valuable than a college education in his case. That's true. If he wants to sell, he doesn't need a degree. You are getting the Ken Coleman bundle, my man. Oh, man, the success package. That's what that is. That's good. If he wants to sell, he doesn't need a degree. You are getting the Ken Coleman bundle, my man. Oh, man, the success package. That's what that is. That's good marketing right there. I know, I know.

I've learned a thing or two. I wish him the best. Yeah, me too. And if you need a good roof, I'm going to call up Ty. Yeah, this is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back, America. Thrilled that you've joined us here on The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.

George Campbell is with me. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Back to the phones we go, Steve is joining us now in Houston. Steve, how can we help? Yeah, hey, thanks Ken and George for taking my call. I've got a question. When my son and daughter were born, my wife and I made lump sum contributions to their 529s and their UTMA account. And now they're nine and 12. And those accounts have grown to be over $1.3 million. Wow. Yeah. I want to ask you guys what you thought we should be doing to prepare them, whether we have wills and other things, what we should be doing to prepare them, you know, for the future. So these are not college savings plans?

Half of the lump sum went into a 529 for each of them, and then half went into a UTMA account for kind of ancillary expenses they might have. Okay. And total, those add up to $1.3 million? Today, right. Okay. And how old are the kids? Nine and 12. Nine and 12. Oh, wow. What was the lump sum? The initial lump sum for each of the 529s was $141,000. We had saved before they were born

and made that contribution when they were. That's incredible. Okay. And do we think we're going to use, obviously, a portion of this for college expenses? You know, it's hard to say. I'd like to say that they'll make their own decision when the time comes. You know, I have my own feelings, but I think they'll use the 529s, at least some of it. Okay. And the UTMAs, you got the UTMAs, those will transfer to them, I don't know in Texas what the laws are, but is it 18 or 21? Okay. Depending on your state? So I would look that up to see.

Okay, yeah, I'm not sure. Because that's the downside of the UTMAs. Your kid, it'll be legally in their name at 18, a million bucks. Yeah. And so they can do what they want with that as adults. And so there's a risk there. I hope they grow up to be, you know, well-adjusted kids who use the money for good and they buy their first home in cash and do all kinds of amazing things

because you guys, I'm guessing, have set them up for that. That's the goal. That's the goal. And look, they're already listening to you guys. Good. Hopefully they do exactly what you said. Okay. So what is your question today specifically?

What else should we be doing? I mean, they're not, like I said, we have our own resources and we have wills and a trust set up for ourselves, my wife and I. But what should we be doing for them? Well, as they, you know, a nine-year-old doesn't have any assets. A 12-year-old doesn't have any assets. So as they get of age of 18 or 21 and those accounts go into their names, that's when I would say, hey, let's now set them up with their own wills. Okay, so that's not something we would need to address now.

We would just wait until they're, say, 21 or 18. Exactly. Because right now you're still, you still maintain the management of that account, of both of those accounts. That's right. And so if something did happen to, you know, you or your spouse, well, you have in your will, here's what happens. Here's the beneficiaries on all of these accounts. And so all of that is already in place. And with your trust, you can set those up to say, hey, at 21, here's what we want to do for each kid. At 30, here's what we're going to do for the kids. So you can set that up how you wish in the trust, but there's nothing else to do. You guys have done a great job. I mean, obviously it's

quote overfunded, but you can always change the beneficiary on the 529 plan to someone else in the greater family. Okay. Well, that's good to know. They could use it for their kids and their kids. So you've kind of created generational wealth that way, which is amazing. Okay. So I would look into the laws of how soon you have to use that money. There's some new things with the Secure 2.0 Act where you can transfer a portion of $35,000 total over to a Roth IRA. So there's a lot of things you can do there. I would definitely, I hope you have a trustworthy investment professional in your life. If not, go to

ramsaysolutions.com and get connected over there. That's incredible. What a way to set up your kids. I'm staggered by that. That amount is unbelievable. So my goodness, I almost wanted to say to him, and I love the advice you gave, but I almost wanted to say, well, you've done enough. You've done plenty, my man. You've done well, Steve. Way to go. And the fact that a nine and 12-year-old are listening to us, they need to get outside, Ken. They probably do, or else they're going to look as pale as you. That's true. I could use some sun. I'm not on the pickleball court as often. Yeah. But do you have an aversion to vitamin D? I mean, what's the problem? I'm working in here all day. A lot of fluorescence.

What are you doing on the weekend? I got a one-year-old, man. Take her to the park. Wow. Now I'm a bad dad all of a sudden. Well, you need some vitamin D. Let's go to Rebecca who joins us in Orlando, Florida. Rebecca, how can we help?

Thank you for taking my call. My husband and I are new empty nesters. We are baby step three, and I will be inheriting about $50,000 next spring. We have $250,000 in first saving plans and IRAs for retirement. And once I turn 65, I'll have a small pension of about $500 a month. I was just wondering, in the next 13 years or so that we have before retirement, is it smart to even aim for or try to be a stalwart? We live in Florida now, but we're from Ohio. My husband has always wanted to move back.

And I have always wanted to grow up and be a stalwart one day, where I lived half the year in one state and half the year in the other. Is that something Dave ever recommends? I don't think he's against that. I've never heard him speak negatively toward it. The one thing, I mean, financially speaking, you'd pay cash for that other property. Right. So in that, in that mindset, we own our home now, but we owe about 120 on it. It's worth 250. We're in Florida now. So, I mean, we've got about halfway paid off. The 50,000 inheritance is going to go right at that.

And you like where you're at? But we're not determined to stay here. It's like I would be fine with a one-bedroom or a tiny house in retirement if I could live in both states. My husband would stay in some space. I mean, six months out of the year, that's a big chunk. That's not exactly a week. And so I would look at properties where you you could stay all year if you wanted to, that are comfortable enough. But I see nothing wrong with your plan as long as we are paying off the mortgage, we have the emergency fund in place, we're investing for the future, we have a solid nest egg. So don't go rob your retirement in order to pay cash for this property in Ohio. You want to make sure that we're saving up for that separately over the next decade or

whatever your timeline is. It's doable. We just want you to be smart about it. Do you know if it's smarter to rent the half a year and just own a home in one state? Because I know Dave is like, you don't want to own property in another state or far away from you

because you have to manage it. If you're talking about renting it out, would you guys want to rent it out the other half of the year? Would that be the goal? No, probably not. You just want to keep a few. So Dave doesn't want strangers in his house where he's going to stay half the year. I can tell you that.

But other people can, and that's perfectly fine. So is the question, would you rent in Ohio for half the year and then go back to Florida? Or vice versa, yes. Because right now, I know the homes around here rent for about $2,000 a month in the winter months. I live basically in the villages. What would rent cost you in Ohio?

I think it would be around $1,300 a month. Right now, of course, you know, 13 years from now. I don't know what George thinks, but George is also not as fun as I am, and he's not as carefree and spontaneous. I can all admit that. But I don't hate that idea as long as it's in the budget. In other words,

because if you get tired of it, you still get your place in Florida. And it feels like we're starting to go, hey, it would kind of be fun to go back to Ohio for a while from our roots, but we really like Florida. So it feels like we're starting to go, hey, it would kind of be fun to go back to Ohio for a while from our roots, but we really like Florida. So it feels like Florida is the anchor. So renting in Ohio, A, it's cheaper. Now, the only thing is it's a nuisance unless you find some deal with somebody where they go, hey, we'll rent it out the other six months and you guys got

first dibs. It's a little bit of a nuisance. That's going to be hard to find, but I don't hate that idea. Can I show you some numbers? Because I agree with Ken. There's nothing wrong with renting and I would test it out for the first year by doing that. But look at this, $2,000 a month for six months, 12 grand a year, right? So let's say the house was 400 grand you could buy. Well, you could rent for 33 years before you've spent 400 grand in rent. Now you don't own an asset at the end of that, but if that's the choice you make, that's totally fine if you don't want to hassle with it. But then again, you got to find a place to rent every single year for six months, which might be

difficult on its own. I don't know many places would let you do that. I agree. But the spontaneous nature of it, I also think you're not paying for the housing expenses, like all the upkeep. It's kind of intriguing. I kind of like it. I mean, do it for a year or two, and then if you want to buy, you go buy in cash. I tried to talk Stacey and let us rent our place for Thanksgiving and make some big cash. She said no. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is alongside 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 1611. A just balance and scales are the Lord's. All the weights in the bag are his work. Our quote from Milton Friedman. Many people want the government to protect the consumer.

A much more urgent problem is to protect the consumer from the government. Oh, sick burn from Milton. That's good. That phrase has never been uttered ever before in the history of broadcasting. For a guy born in 1912, I'm not sure he would understand what sick burn even meant. No. God rest his soul. He wouldn't.

I think his bones spun slightly in his grave when that went out. But it goes to show you, nothing's changed, Ken. Over 100 years, we're still trying to get the government out of our pocketbooks. Absolutely right. All right, let's go to Jenna in Dallas, Texas. Jenna, how can we help? Hi, how are you guys doing? Good, how are you?

Doing good. My husband and I, we are on baby step number six. And even though we are so far along in the step process, you know, for our age, I feel like I'm stressed like spiritually and financially now more than ever. We do the right things. We put, you know, most of our money into our mortgage right now. But I feel like almost resentful that our mortgage is so high and that we can't get to baby step number seven of giving any faster. And I also feel like it's impeding my ability to be a stay-at-home mom because I need to maintain my career and salary in order to pay off this high mortgage. And so I guess I just wonder at what point is it too extreme to talk about downsizing your house so that you can get to baby step number seven quicker and do what I feel like God's called us to do.

Which is what? Especially if your husband doesn't, which is give and to take care of my kids versus being a career woman at the moment. Okay. And then you said if your husband doesn't, and I cut you off, where were you going? Agree. Oh, he doesn't agree. He doesn't have the same calling on his heart. Like he thinks that we're tithing, we're involved, that we can be patient. How much do you want to give? Do you have a number in mind or is it more specific to a certain group of people? What does that mean, give more? Yeah, I feel like we've had a lot of family complications, and we do far better financially than a lot of others in our group, and I would love to be able to help out. I would love to be able to give at our church when they're

having events more than just tithing. I feel like all around, there's just all these examples that happen. I'm like, oh, well, we're sending all of our money to our mortgage. We can't donate to that right now. Tell us the numbers on the mortgage. How much do you have left and how much is the house worth? So we bought the house in October for $618. We currently have $527, but we are under contract on our rental home so after capital gains we'll have another 104 to put to our mortgage so you sold a rental yeah well it hasn't closed yet but we're hoping to to close uh in the september um and that'll go towards your mortgage of $527,000. Correct, yes. Okay, what's your mortgage payment? About $3,100 a month right now.

And what is your after-tax monthly income? A little over $16,000. So you guys have an amazing income. And how much extra are you putting toward the mortgage? Between $6,000 and $8,000 a month. Okay. And based on that, how quickly would you pay off the house if you kept that up? If I were to keep my salary and keep my job in about five or six years, we would be able to pay off the mortgage. How old are the kids?

I just have one that's two and a half, but we're trying for more. Okay. Here's the question. If you decided, I want to stay at home with the kids, you did not provide an income, what would that bring your after-tax monthly income down to? A little over $4,000. I'm a bigger chunk of our income. So this is not going to work. If you stay at home, we have to get rid of the house. Correct. And that's the part your husband disagrees with. Yeah, he's in school right now finishing up, and so he wants to pump the brakes and wait on all of that, at least until he's done with school to see if then he can't take over. What is he in school for?

Real estate and finance. Is he getting a real estate license? I'm not 100% sure what he's wanting to do. I think he's looking at getting a master's in architecture after and then doing real estate on the side as soon as he finishes. Well, to be honest, this feels like a terrible plan considering you want to stay at home and he's going to be in school for the next 18 years.

Yeah. So I think we need to realign. Yeah, I agree, George. Jenna, I winced when I heard that plan. His plan and your plan are going the opposite direction. You guys have a marriage issue. This is not a giving issue. You're really driven to give in some very specific ways. He's got a clear plan for his future, but you've got

a lifestyle that you are largely funding. This is not a money conversation. This is a life plan situation that I think ought to be discussed in front of a pastor who has some counseling experience or a therapist. Mm-hmm. Do you disagree, George? No, I think a marriage is either growing apart and growing together. And right now, it seems like you guys are going completely different directions with what you're wanting, what he's wanting. And it's only going to cause you to build up resentment toward him. Right. Because you're going to say, he's not hearing me. I want to stay at home. I want to

give more. And he's telling me he wants to stay in school and keep the house and I need to keep working. There's going to be a bunch of blow up fights if we don't address the underlying issue. Now, Jenna, I will say this. I listened to you really intently and I think you can scratch that give itch without putting money attached to it all the time. You have a heart to give. And at this season with your reality, if you guys don't come together on the house, you're in it. You jumped into this house just as much as he did so 100 yes so now all of a sudden you're kind of like well i want to do this and it's like there's a little bit of guilt attached to you like it's almost like you don't where's that coming from um we decided to move down here

and and buy the house um before i gave my life to to Jesus. So I am probably what a lot of people consider a new Christian. You are. Oh, so you're on fire. Your heart is on fire. Yes. Okay. Okay. So that context helps. That helps. So I'm going to be a big brother to you right now, and I'm just going to tell you that that is amazing, number one. Number two, your entire world has changed. Your perspective has changed. Your heart has been opened. And that is very, very normal.

And I don't want you to lose that zeal, okay? But you need to mature a little bit. And this is like a little kid, first time you give them some candy, they don't have the maturity. You've got to give them little pieces at a time. And I think right now you've got to get, you need to get in a good church if you're not in one, get around some, I would really recommend some ladies who have been Christians for a long time and begin to just spend time with them in a Bible study and share some of this stuff because I think you'll need some mature people around you to help you temper some of that enthusiasm, not for the Lord and the things of God, but for all these things you're trying to accomplish.

And you're in a season of reality right now, so you need to let your faith inform what you guys need to be doing. And I'm going to bring it back to I am a little bit concerned with – I feel better now because I now know where this is coming from. You can give of your time and give of your talent. Read the parable of the talents before you go to bed tonight, okay? The parable of the talents before you go to bed tonight, okay? The parable of the talents. And I want you to apply that to where you are,

because you and your husband need to get on the same page long-term and financially, and you can still serve. George, what else would you say there, knowing what you know now? Well, I would pause, realign, and we need to figure out, if you do want to stay home, he needs to have an income that can support this and support the current house you're in. Otherwise, he needs to agree to downsize. And so we need to be in agreement on the plan

and take some steps forward. You can also add a line item in your budget for some spontaneous giving and some opportunities there. And that might slow down your house progress a little bit, and that's okay, too. Yeah, you don't need to feel bad because you've got a big house. You know, so appreciate your spirit. Love the call, Jenna.

All right, George, good stuff. Thanks, my friend, for being with us. I want to thank James Childs, our fearless producer, and the merry band of men behind the glass for keeping us on the air. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you.