The Ramsey Show - App - Don’t End Up an In-Debt Barista (Hour 2)

Episode Date: April 17, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Number one best-selling author of the book Breaking Free from Broke and the hottest YouTube show out there, George Camel with a K, Ramsey Personality. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Kristen starts this hour off in, well, I'm going to have to push the right button. There it is. Kristen's in Syracuse, New York. Hi, Kristen.

How are you? Hi, good. Thank you so much. Good. How can we help you? So I'm wondering if I should go back to nursing school to get my nurse practitioner degree this fall. I keep going back and forth because I had my second baby a few months ago, and I went back to work part-time. I've been back for about a month and I was full-time before. And I feel like I'm in a sweet spot. I feel happier at work. I feel

like more patient and kinder with my patients. I feel like life is more manageable than when I was full-time after I had my first baby. So I'm nervous to take on, like, another endeavor at this time. Why would I? Well, I mean, I don't want to do bedside nursing forever. I would like to become a nurse practitioner. And, I mean, it would be less. Yeah, but to justify the expense, you'd be full-time. Oh.

Oh, well, my dad offered to pay for it, so I feel like I'm so grateful for that. Still, you're going to have to go do the work. He's going to pay for it, and to justify the expense of doing this, you would want to be full-time. Oh, yeah. After I get the degree, yeah, working part-time. And you're telling us that you're happier part-time. So there's some conflicting views here.

So what do you actually want to do? I mean, that's what I'm trying to figure out, yeah. I mean, I'm going to, I don't know how it will be. I want to set my family up for success in the future so that, like. Well, is this a financial thing? Do you guys need more money? Like, I mean, I don't, I would like to have more money, like, for to be able to. What does your husband make, Kristen?

Well, he probably makes, the past few years, like, $25 to $30, and then I've brought in, like, $60, and I'm very fortunate because I have a lot of support from my parents, so I'm debt-free. But, like, my mom... How old are you? I'm 33. Okay. Why is he only making 25? Um, he could make a lot more. I kind of, what does he do? He, he's a builder.

Full time? No, no. Uh, we've been trading off on, um, childcare, but he definitely could work a lot more i've been encouraging him to work a lot more um i feel like he was kind of um raised like by the mindset of like just making enough to get by just making enough to get by once you're 33 it's not your parents fault it's your fault right i don't care how he was raised he ain't working much and maybe that maybe the way he got to not working much is his parents weren't motivated people the family were people that sat around did as little as they could do but it's time to grow up now you got kiddos and he needs to get his butt in gear yeah a lot more than you need to go back to school are there other jobs here's the net result okay your husband sits on his thumbs you're working part-time and you're freaking grown-ups who live off your

parents yeah that's the net result your mom and dad ought to cut y'all off so you could grow up y'all need to step up no you don't need to go back to school in this setting because you're bailing this whole situation out because nobody's doing anything but you. And no, I think we need to address his work career aspirations and he needs to go be somebody. And then you can pick up more hours as a nurse. And if everything's rocking and rolling and you're quit taking money from your parents and you're running your own lives and you're doing pretty good and you decide, hey, I really, I want to throw my shoulders back. I want to be a nurse practitioner. I really want to go do this for me, not just because my husband doesn't work much and not because my dad's willing to pay for

it. Good Lord. No, how about you want to go be somebody? That's when you should go do it. Yeah, I think we need a bigger reason here than just like, well, I want to set up my family for success. No, but that's not it. That's code for my husband doesn't make any money and my mom and dad give us money. That's what that's code for. Y'all need some independent success.

Yeah, yeah. And you guys ought to get lined know lined up get yourself going you have the ability with a nursing degree to work as much as you want to work or as little as you want to work and until you're running that through and he's got his career off and going and his work ethic issues addressed and you guys get off the dole from your mom and dad um and that's not a blessing it's enabling, at this point. So yeah, y'all need to be good for y'all. Be good for your mom and dad.

Be good for your husband for, to, to have the dignity of running the lane by yourself, putting the ball in the hoop and go, we just scored. That's important for people. The sense of I'm in control of my destiny. I know it and I care about it. That kind of mojo is what will carry you to actual success. Yeah. And then when you got that stuff going and you call in and you go, hey, I want to step

up one more level. I want to level up and be a nurse practitioner. Yeah, we can talk about that. And then if you at that point, if you want to accept a gift and your dad wanted to pay for that, that's fine. But this is all just masking over the fact that y'all aren't dealing with it. And then at that point, if you wanted to accept a gift and your dad wanted to pay for that, that's fine. But this is all just masking over the fact that y'all aren't dealing with it. And that's what I want y'all to do for your sake.

It doesn't affect us. And I've found as we take calls, a lot of people want to go back to school because they're sort of in this conundrum life crisis. And they just think going to school will hopefully solve everything. And it's rarely the right next step. It just seems to be the thing i can it's where i can run to to escape because we've told people that you automatically make more money if you increase your education and that's not true now it would be true in her case because nurse practitioners do make more okay but but you know this general vague thing of, okay, so the answer to everything is go back to school. No, really not. Not unless you're already successful.

And then you want to just add some tools to your already successful belt. Or you're going to take a complete left turn and go into something that requires some certifications that you don't have. Then you can do that. But, you know, all college is not good the right college the right study in the university is excellent but when you get a degree in left-handed puppet puppetry or german polka history and that's not her she's not trying to do that and you know you're going to end up a deeply in debt barista that's what you end up and so all college barista. That's what you end up. And so all college is not good.

That's a misnomer. And we've told people a lie about that. And then we financed it. And we give a 17-year-old $100,000 debt who's never done anything. And then Sally Mae and the colleges go, we can make a lot of money off these people. Yeah. Let's go raise tuition. It's your government screwing their constituency.

And now we've got a trillion and a half in student loan debt. A trillion! Can you even spell that? This is The Ramsey Show. Thanks for hanging out with us, America. We're so glad you're here open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five george i'm so pumped about this uh total money makeover weekend

that we are doing it's coming up in just a few weeks may the 10th and uh man it's absolutely uh it's going to be all the ramsey personalities, May 10th and 11th, Friday afternoon, all day Saturday. And we're going to walk you through everything from the very beginning all the way through wealth and generosity. And by the time you leave, you're going to be so jacked that you're going to know you can do this. Yeah, whether you're crushing it with money or it's crushing you,

this event is going to give you some inspiration, motivation, some knowledge. And again, we're covering, of course, the core Ramsey principles, but we also have Ken Coleman talking about how to make more money and Deloney talking about how to ease anxiety, Rachel talking about comparisons, and I'll be talking about home ownership, how to pay off the house early, how to get a house. Dave's going to be hitting the baby steps, generosity, investing, the debt snowball, all of that good stuff.

I'll be speaking as well. Everybody's going to be there. We're going to do a lot of Q&A with you guys. It's here on campus at Ramsey, at the Ramsey Live Event Center, and we want you to be with us. The tickets are not sold out yet, but they're very close. It's May 10th and 11th. The Platinum Plus is gone.

The Platinum, there's just a couple of them. The VIP, there's a few of. And then General Admission is available as well. So we would love to have you with us. Be there. Don't miss this. We're going to walk you through every dollar. We're going to walk you through everything you need.

And bring your reluctant spouse and spend the weekend. You're going to leave all knit together, ready to go. And you can even bring your friend who thinks you're crazy because you're doing this Ramsey stuff and by the time they leave they're gonna be crazy and maybe you maybe you pay for their ticket that'll be fun yeah they should general sample yeah there you go so it's gonna be a good time we got smart money happy hour live with us with the audience on friday night and if you want to come even earlier come watch the ramsey show yeah right here on the glass i'll be hosting that day so that may be a selling point. It may not be. I think it's a big one. Check it out, folks.

RamseySolutions.com slash events. Parker's in Bozeman, Montana. Hi, Parker. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, so I was wondering, I'm self-employed. I'm 23 years old. I've got $2,200 a month mortgage payment. That's just me. I don't rent out any bedrooms or nothing. And then I have about $160,000 in consumer debt. It's a couple trucks, a bunch of trailers, a bunch of equipment. It's all for my business. It all makes me money.

Um, I've cut the excess off. Um, I'm really, I've got a few loans that I'm starting to get to the point where I could pay them off, uh, here, you know, sometime in the next six months, I'm starting to buckle down and, uh, I'm not buying anything new. I'm trying to pay stuff off. I'm working 80 hours on a light week. What are you making? What's your profit going to be in this calendar year? This year, it's looking like I'm going to take home around $250,000.

Okay. All right. And your questions? So I'm to the point where I could use an employee. I have more work than I can get done on myself. I'm falling behind. Um, with that said, if I were to hire a guy, I need to buy another pickup. No, you don't. You've got enough junk. Well, we, you know, primarily I drive in and out of job sites. And right now I can't, I actually, I have enough for myself, but I've been having one of my brothers help me, but I'm, you know, sitting at home trying to take care of stuff.

If I were to full-time him, I would need something. I would be buying it with cash. You got $160,000 in debt on a bunch of other equipment. Correct. Yeah. And you keep figuring out ways to not pay that off. What's wrong with just hiring a guy that has a truck and tell him to go get the work done? I guess it's just a liability aspect of it.

That's not a liability. Um, just if something were to happen to it, I don't want to, I guess, have him. It's also really hard to find a good employee. I had, I had one, actually a guy in the same position as you were. That's a different subject than he has a truck or not. Yeah, fair. Yeah. How much money do you have? the same position as you were that's a different subject than he has a truck or not yeah fair yeah how much money do you have right right now i only have about fifteen thousand dollars fifteen like liquid yeah fifteen one five because it i'm getting eaten up on these payments so

that's why i've been trying to are you 28 23 okay. Okay. All right. Because you sound like you're trying to out-earn your stupidity. Yeah. I did that a lot. I did that all through my 20s. It didn't work for me. You got to quit out-earning. Because you're not afraid of hard work, and you know how to make money.

You just haven't figured out how to keep any of it yet. Yeah, yeah, 100%. You're a hard-working dude, and you're a great entrepreneur because you've got about six ideas every minute and a half. I think you're going to be amazing. I think you're going to really make a lot of money in your life, but you've got to tame that monster of thinking you can out-earn your stupidity. So here's what I would advise you to do as the owner of a brand called entree leadership or we coach small business people all the time

i would hire someone if that the work that they are doing is going to make me more than they cost me okay so you said i can't get all the work done So you're going to be able to get the work done now and make that money that you couldn't make if it was just you by yourself. That justifies a hire from a business perspective. Right, right. And what will it cost to hire that person? What kind of an income would you need to pay them? Gosh. hire that person what what kind of a what kind of an income would you need to pay them uh gosh i'd be shooting for you know 40 hours a week and you know 25 to 30 dollars an hour depending on uh you know just depending on experience talking about 50 55 grand somewhere in there yeah yeah so if you buy if you hire somebody for fifty thousand dollars a year and um you say i'm gonna pay you i'm gonna pay all of your gas and i'm going to pay

uh in addition to that two hundred dollars a month for you to use your truck got it then you don't have to buy a truck yeah that's a better idea yeah yeah and then and and uh later on you may want to buy a truck now what is all this other equipment uh so like a lot of them a lot of them are like dump trailers uh i've got 14 of them and i rent them all out on a monthly basis uh to contractors throughout the Valley. So I still owe some on those just because I didn't, um, when I started this up when I was 20, I didn't really have any savings. Um, you still barely have any savings. How much has changed? I do now and I don't have much, but, but, uh, debt or you know i i got loans to to get myself started

and get my foot in the door yeah and then you went then you went big yeah and then i keep trying to like you said out you're really good at justifying every purchase as long as you can tell yourself it's going to make you money because here's the thing about here's a wonderful thing about an entrepreneur we never think it's going to fail yeah and. Because here's the thing about it. Here's the wonderful thing about an entrepreneur. We never think it's going to fail. Yeah. And that's me. I never do anything that's going to fail, yet 90% of my ideas actually, in hindsight, sucked.

I made all of my money and my brand impact on the Dave Ramsey brand over the last 30 years on about 10% of my ideas. I survived the other 90% of my brilliance, which was awful. And so that, you know, it's painful. And when you go in debt, you magnify the size of your mistake. So what I would also prescribe for you then, sir, I'm going to send you a copy of the book Entree Leadership, which was a number one bestseller on how I grew this business from a card table in my living room to what it is today, which is a $300 million business with 1,100 team members. Okay. I'm going to send you that copy of that book free and you read it. Now, the two things I want you to do is don't buy a truck, hire a guy with a truck, Parker. And then the second thing I want you to do is you are also

good at living on nothing because you work all the time so i want you to take every dollar you can find and start throwing it at list these debts on these on these all your debt equipment and everything smallest to largest and attack it the smallest one when it's gone attack the next one when it's gone attack the next one and i want you to clear all of this debt in one year because you're you know you're 23 just go do it you're amazing you're 23. Just go do it. You're amazing. You're amazing. Now, don't screw this up.

Go do it. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thanks for hanging out with us. George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host. Sarah is in Pensacola, Florida. Hi, Sarah.

How are you? Hi. Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I'm calling because I recently, I'm pretty much a single married mother of two. And I just recently had to get a restraining order against my husband in January.

Either way, I am left with the responsibility and finances of two incomes now on just one. I've done a budget on the app, on the EveryDollar app, and I am just consistently on the red. I've done everything to try to bring all my expenses down the best way I could on just me and my two kids. I've done pretty good, but what really is it's my rent, and I can't move until my lease is up because I don't want to break a lease. How much? Wait a minute. Let me stop a second, honey.

Okay. So a restraining order. So he was physically abusive? Yeah. On Christmas, it was the last straw yeah so I how long have you been out how long you been married five years I'm so sorry okay okay what do you make, hon? Well, my salary is $55,576. What do you do? $55,000. I work for United States Postal Service.

Okay. And how old are your babies again? Six and four. Okay. Is everybody safe now? Yes. The restraining order has a space at the home, yes. Okay. Is everybody safe now? Yes. The restraining order has a space at the home, yes. Okay.

And, well, they're not magic, but so far it has worked, right? Yes. Why'd you hesitate? Because he's popped up, but, you know, as soon as i i tell him to get out of here i'm going to call the cops he he pretty much runs but he doesn't make it easy for me but i and what i mean by that how many times has he popped up twice so far since january january 10th okay Okay, so let me help you with a couple things. Sadly, because we help with people with financial crises,

I've been in these situations many times in the last 30 years. And so I've been forced to learn a little bit about it, more than I wanted to, okay? Because it's a filthy, horrible thing that you have endured. And I'm very sorry for you. The next time he shows up, don't threaten to call the cops. Call them. Put him in jail.

Okay? Okay. Yeah. Okay. Quit playing games with this guy. He needs to go away. He's bad. Period.

That's your Uncle Dave who loves you telling you that. Okay? No screwing around with this. He goes to jail. He violated a restraining order. He is threatening you and the children. If he pops up again, he's going to pop in behind bars. I got you pop up, buddy.

I'll put you where you can't breathe. Okay? So I'm done with him. He's scum. Okay? I got you pop up, buddy. I'll put you where you can't breathe, okay? So I'm done with him. He's scum, okay? Period. And I've got to tell you that real directly and real loud because he has told you for five years two things really often, and if you're not careful, you start to believe them. One is that you'll never make it without him.

And two is that he's really sorry. Well, he is really sorry. But I'm not talking about an apology here. I'm just talking about a sorry human being. Okay? So he ain't sorry. He's abusive. And you are a thousand times better than he's been telling you for five years. You're going to make it. You're going to be fine.

And we're going to put a team of people around you to make sure you do, okay? And you are going to break your lease because you can't afford it. How much is the payment? $17.50. Okay. So we're going to have one of our financial coaches serve you at no cost to you. When we get off the phone, we're going to hook them up with you, and they're going to meet with you, and on your behalf, they're going to call the landlord and tell the landlord that the

husband in the building has been beating his wife, and she can't afford the lease now that she threw him out like she should have five years ago okay and the landlord's going to have some mercy and get the house rented to somebody else and you're going to get something you and the kids can afford you are not trapped and you can make it without him you make fifty five thousand dollars a year the lady that i'm talking to is articulate and intelligent. Yes, thank you. Aren't you? Aren't you? Yeah, the best that I can, Mr.

Yeah, you are. I mean, everything I've heard was intelligent, didn't you, George? Yes. You are a warrior. If you survive the crap from him, you're going to survive anything. Yeah. Okay. So how much debt do you have other than this lease that's a problem?

Well, that's the thing. I don't have a car payment, and I have two secured credit cards, each for $400, but I've paid them up. Good. So you don't have any debt there.

We'll convert you to a debit card on that. You're not going to spend money you don't have any debt there. No. We'll convert you to a debit card on that. You're not going to spend money you don't have. You've got $55,000 coming in. So your payments are food, lights, water, shelter. What else? Mainly what it is is that I'm not really taking home that much. See, in the beginning of the year and i got this restraining order he also took a um all of our our savings and money yeah so he cleaned us out we're also going to hook you

we're also going to help you contact an attorney and get that back because it's not his it's yours and he left two little kids behind and he's not paying any child support and he's going to get the benefit of doing that too yeah i started him on um i started the child support but it takes a minute you know yeah but yeah um i had to but back to that in the beginning when he did that in order for me to pay the rent i had to take a loan out against my 401k okay we're gonna get that i'm not yeah so yeah i'm not taking home all that so and the other thing is you probably have too much taxes coming out of your check yeah that's another thing was he handling all the money before

no um we were both doing it okay but how big a tax refund you get on the homepage that's the thing we we i owe we owe we owe three thousand dollars so i'm paying that too uh you're not he is well he doesn't have legal options here. He gets to pay this stuff. Oh, well, he's relinquished our responsibility. He doesn't get to. He doesn't get to decide that. The judge will help him with that. He may have as a husband and a dad, but financially speaking, he can't get out of this.

The judge is going to go, innocent spouse syndrome boom all right you can follow a code with the irs that uh this this debt with them is the result of your husband and um it's called innocent spouse there's a whole form that does it we can help you do that too and then he gets to pay the three thousand ding ding that's how that works so what you what you need is you need some people in your corner that know how to fight some of this and get you back on balance. And we're just the ones. We're going to help you, okay? Oh, yes, sir.

Thank you. You're going to be okay. You're going to have to make some moves that aren't comfortable to get stabilized and get a sustainable situation after all this mess because you have less income now to deal with. But you now have control of your life again and you're safe again okay yes if he pops up again say dave i'm calling the cops say it dave i'm calling the cops there we go there you go we love you darling you hold on we're gonna pick up and we're gonna take care of you this This is the Ramsey Show. Thanks for helping us, America.

We're so glad you're here. Ken Coleman's Get Clear Assessment has helped thousands of people. Literally almost 100,000 people have taken the Get Clear Career Assessment. And we're excited to announce his new book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do, which will show you how to enjoy your results and get specific in your job search and find work you enjoy. So who are you, who you are, why you're wired that way, what you want to do professionally, how to get there. And the Get Clear Assessment comes with the book. A code is built into each book, a unique code. And so if you want to find the work you're wired to do, check this out. Take the Get

Clear assessment. You can get it at ramseysolutions.com slash store. It is happening now, baby, now. So you don't want to miss that. Today's question comes from Ethan in New Jersey. He says, what is your take on car leases? I view it as a quote rental expense, such as renting before you can afford a house. I hope I'm not fooling myself, but I've been driving cars that are within three years old, keep the payments on auto pay, I drop it at the dealership when anything goes wrong, the dealership takes the depreciation hit, and it only costs me $300 a month. I feel like I can't go wrong with this method. Am I right, or do you see this as a big scam? Oh boy. Well, the reason dealerships push leases so hard is because it's what they make the most money on you're taking the depreciation hit not the dealership it's built into the 300

dollars bubba you think you're gonna you're gonna lease a car that's worth 20 000 bucks or 30 000 bucks and you're gonna turn it back in it's worth 25 and you didn't cover the five, of course you did. It's built into your little payments, buddy. So, yeah. No, it's not like renting a house. Not at all. Nothing like renting a house. It's just an alternate way of financing. It is the most expensive way to operate a car.

Right? Yeah. I mean, I talk about this in the book, breaking down all the ways they screw you with a lease and all of the ins and outs and the bells and whistles, the stuff they don't actually tell you at the dealership when they just show you the shiniest car on the lot and say, you could drive away this thing with 300 bucks. It's better than a car loan. Just lease it, man. That's what smart people do.

And they're fooling you, Ethan. And I guarantee you're a young guy. You like driving a nice car, but that thing's driving you. And so, no, this is different than renting for a lot of reasons. And at the end of it, you hand back in this car and you just get another payment and get another payment. And you can do that your whole life and not build any wealth. That's the problem. Yeah. And you are covering all of the expenses. You don't think a car company is going to let you drive their car around and they lose money on it. No, you're covering it.

And you're one of their most profitable customers. They're making more on you than they are on just about anybody else. So the best deal in the car world is a two-year-old to three-year-old car that you pay cash for. That's the best deal in the car world. And all of them go down in value like a rock. That's where Chevy got that, like a rock. And so, you know, you just lose your butt on cars. It just goes with the territory.

And so there is no scam. There is no P that can be hidden under a different shell that keeps that from happening. When you're driving a $50,000 car in 20 minutes, it's going to be worth 40. When you're driving an $80,000 car in 20 minutes, it's going to be worth 60. That just goes with the territory. And so the trick is to drive the thing that costs you the least money in losses of value and in payments and interest no payments and interest um while you build some wealth to where you have enough money that that losing ten thousand dollars doesn't matter anymore

because then you can afford to drive something that you're losing your butt on and that's cars boats sea dues side by sides snowmobiles zero turn mowers anything with a wheel or a motor and don't talk to me about your seven thousand dollar lawn tractor while your kid's college fund isn't funded i'll yell at you for being stupid don't do that okay and that this is the crap that we do in america because we're all concerned about what we drive and it's the largest thing we buy that goes down in value the old boy that called here years ago and he's like dave my truck payment's $700. I said, how much is your house payment? I live in a double wide.

It's $500. Oh, my gosh. I said, Roy, if your truck payment's larger than your house payment, you might be a redneck. Seriously. Oh, my gosh. That's wild. But that's America, right? That's who we are.

I did the same stuff, too, when I was back. But you can justify it when you see the shiny car on the lot. Rationalize it. And they're happy to tell you. And the craziest part is FTC doesn't have to define a lease's debt. So they don't have to federally disclose interest on these leases. What George is saying is the Federal Trade Commission, when you borrow money in a car lot, requires they give you one of those disclosure forms that shows you the interest rate

and the total interest is going to be paid you don't get one of those on a lease because it's not technically debt but when i take my financial calculator and back into it the average lease is charging you about 14.2 percent interest it's the most expensive way to operate a vehicle. Tom's in Denver. Hi, Tom. How are you? Hey, thank you guys. I'm doing well. And thanks for taking my call and for the total money make over. I know I speak for millions when I say that it's helped change and heal my life in the world, desperately in need of healing. So thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. How can we help? Yeah, I was hoping to get your feedback. I'm on Baby Step 6 and wondering if it's wise for me to sell my home and work in a different city and state in order to push me into Baby Step 7 and beyond.

I wanted to get what would Dave say about that. Not unless you need to do it anyway. Like you hate Denver and you desperately will want to be somewhere else and the other job sounds much more appealing. There are other reasons to move other than what you're saying. Is there? Is there? I would say so.

Cost of living is a big one. Where are you going? Where are you thinking about going? So Amarillo, Texas, and also Anderson South Carolina and Columbus Indiana those three have become top three is it just you at the home I am I'm the only person in the home and owning the home correct okay what do you do I recently was uh was i was a fedex courier but uh recently they started closing down stations and replacing us with contract workers so i got a job uh as a kiln technician in uh coors tech it's a company that works industrial ceramics

okay and so what would you do if you move to these other cities uh and that's the question i was going to ask is you'd recommend finding a job first before even thinking about moving to another city that's how i so here's the thing okay you presented the question as would i do this to just become debt free no would i do this and to-free? Because it's a part of an overall strategy that I want to do to make my life better. I'd rather live somewhere else. I'd rather do something different. My time here is done. It's time to move to one of these other things. You've been researching these other cities for some reason, and if it's as a part of that, you move from an expensive Denver into an inexpensive Amarillo,

and you can pay cash for a house in the process and get a career field that you love and have the quality of life and the future that you love in your mind, and it's all mapped out. Yeah, I would do that. Yep. But would I move to Amarillo and not have a job and hate my life and hate Amarillo all so I could say I was debt-free? No. Right.

And, Tom, to be clear, are you saying you would pay cash for a home in any of these new cities? That would be, yeah, that would be, you know, by far the only option for me would be to pay cash for a house and also keep my six-month emergency fund. How did you pick those three cities? It's really been over the past six years. So I visited Anderson and fell in love with it. Okay. And also, frankly, it's quite a bit cheaper.

Well, it is that. And I have a lot of family out in Amarillo and also some friends in Columbus, Indiana that are willing to kind of work with me in terms of a living situation and working situation. You got some homework to do. I'd go look for jobs in those areas, see what the houses actually cost, see if you can actually afford it in cash with the equity and proceeds, and then you can make your move. Yeah, if you can build a life with every component of your life that's better, and one of those is you become debt-free while doing it, absolutely I would do that. You're single, there's nothing holding you there. Sure. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you.