The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Fall Into the Cycle of Collecting Credit (Hour 2)

Episode Date: October 7, 2020

Relationships, Debt, Savings, Education, Retirement Sign Up for a FREE trial of Ramsey Plus TODAY: https://bit.ly/31ricKt  Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: http://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: http://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: http://bit.ly/2QEyonc Interview Guide: http://bit.ly/2BuGnZE Check out other podcasts in the Ramsey Network: http://bit.ly/2JgzaQR 

Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host, Chris Hogan. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today here on the air. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Lynn in Minneapolis starts this hour off. Hi, Lynn. How can Chris and I help? Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. My dad passed away unexpectedly about six months

ago. Thank you. He and my mom were just starting the process of setting up their trust. And so nothing has been finalized or written down, mostly just the process of finding their estate lawyer and talking about things. And so I'm trying to help my mom figure out what to do now. She is debt-free. She lives on my dad's inherited family farm. There are three of us kids, and my dad really wanted to ensure that the family farm stayed in his family's name. So I am one of three, like I said, and I have a sister and a brother,

so it is intended that my brother will inherit the farm. But my dad wishes also that upon my mom's death that the kids kind of split the asset equally, financially, I guess. And so they had talked about, so they have a tillable acreage that they rent out every year and it brings in approximately $30,000. And the farm, it's a small farm, valued at around a million dollars.

And so their idea was potentially that my sister and I would split the farm rent for about 20 years. And then at that point, everything would become my brother's um my only my my husband has a concern of being in a financial agreement with siblings for that long and was hoping there would be a better kind of a one-time solution um my brother is not in a position to financially buy out per se, my sister and I at around $600,000. And so we're just wondering if you'd have any advice on how we could fulfill my dad's wishes. Okay. So your mom is how old? My mom is 70. And how's her health? Very good. Okay. So your mom is how old? My mom is 70. And how's her health? Very good.

Okay. And so there's a million dollars worth of dirt. Yes. And that's it? That's it. There's no other money? There is approximately $100,000 maybe. Okay.

So to start with, your mom is the owner of all of this right correct okay and so really all we're trying to determine here is how to set your mom's will up correct okay all right just making sure i'm clear on what you're asking and so how do we get your broke brother 600 grand,000 to buy out you and your other sibling, right? Yes, yes. Very difficult. Yes, we did have a financial person suggest to us that my brother take out a $600,000 life insurance policy. Doesn't do any good unless he dies. That only helps if he dies.

On my mom. Oh, yeah, I know. And that's a wonderful idea if you can get term life insurance on your mom for 70 years old. Is she healthy? Right. She's healthy, yes. And the quote came out to like $17,000 a year, which is just not affordable for my mother. Well, it's not affordable for anybody in this deal.

There's no money in this deal except the dirt. Right. Well, I mean, obviously your brother could farm the land and go get a mortgage to buy out his siblings. Yes. Yeah. And so what I would do is just set the will up to say, you know, for the first X number of years, he farms the land and gives you the proceeds, gives you a mortgage, the equivalent of a mortgage payment,

and then he has to go get a new mortgage to take you guys out at the end of whatever number of years, three years, five years, ten years, whatever. But I'm with your husband that in perpetuation, this is a bad idea. Yeah. And, Lynn, unfortunately, there's not a quick fix to this, meaning, you know, your brother can't just go get $600,000. So you all are connected, as far as this property is concerned, for the foreseeable future. So really, your part is like $300,000 as of today's values anyway. Correct. And your household income is what? My household income? About 80. Okay. Don't

build your financial world on getting this 300 grand. I don't think that we are. My sister lives out of state. Neither one of us. Good. And that allows you to have lots of patience to let this unfold so the property does not, your brother doesn't end up losing the property trying to make you happy because you built your world on this $300,000. It's very difficult to get. So you're saying he let him, because he would not farm the land. He's not a farmer. So let him have the rent and then him take out a mortgage to pay.

Why is, if he's not a farmer, why is he wanting to end up with the land? It's been, well, so he'll live on the farm. There's a homestead there. There's hunting land. It's just some of it. And what is his income? I would say around $60,000 maybe. So he needs to own a million-dollar farm as a gentleman farmer.

Why? Except that we want to keep it in the family? I don't know. Somebody making $60,000 owns a million-dollar farm. Well, it's a century farm. It's been in our family for— I get that. I'm talking about he can't afford this farm.

Well, he does have his own property also. He lives on an acreage. He can't afford this farm. Lynn, are you hearing Dave? A guy making $60 cannot afford a million-dollar hobby farm. But can he afford to inherit? Yeah, okay. He didn't inherit it.

He only inherited one-third of it. Right. You're skipping forward some steps. What's his other property worth? It's probably worth $300,000. Okay, he sells that and uses that money to buy you guys out. You give him a discount, and he goes and gets a small mortgage. Okay.

He needs $300,000 more, and he sells his property for $300,000, so he's $300,000 short, and you guys give him a discount on that $300,000 because you're trying to keep it in the family. And so each of you take $100,000 in addition to his land, and he goes and gets a $100,000 mortgage, making $60,000. He can do that. Yeah. But I don't need him signing up for a $600,000 mortgage.

And, you know, you can't look at the bank when you can't pay the bill and go, but it's a century farm. The bank goes, so what? Yeah. Right. And so we can't put him, we can't paint him into the corner. Dave, listen, there's a whole lot of talk and a whole lot of planning, but nothing written down.

That's the danger in situations like this. You've got to get it all written out. You have to. It has to be part of the will, part of the agreement. Everybody's got to understand. And you have a reading of the will before you pass. Let's go ahead and get all this out. Open phones at 888-825-5225. With more frequency than you know, I get calls and emails from people dealing with the recent loss of a spouse or a parent. You can hear the struggle and the heartache that they've been experiencing. And at a time they should be grieving, what breaks my heart the most is the strain and

tension that they're going through because of money, especially when it's a situation that could have been avoided. If you have a family, it is your responsibility to have term life insurance. It's one of the things you do to say I love you. And yes, this is an ad for Zander Insurance. But since this is one of the most effective ways I have to get my point across, so be it. For over 20 years, I've been telling you about the importance of term life insurance and protecting your family. Listen, you need to check

out Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. I can't say it enough. Protect your family. It's what you're supposed to do. Go to Zander.com or call co-host today here on the air. Open phones at 888-825-5225. John is with us in Philadelphia. Hi, John. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Can you hear me? Sure. What's up? Hey, kind of a simple question for you today.

I'm 22. I have no credit. I was wondering if it was good as a beginner to get a small amount of credit say 300 bucks or so uh with unsecured debt for credit worthiness i guess so you want to be worthy to borrow money and go in debt yes no i'm just kidding well that's creditworthiness, right? Okay. Well, I didn't know because my dad always told me that this is an important thing, and then I started watching your show a couple months back, and I'm starting to realize, hmm, maybe it's not such an important thing, you know?

But, John, not only you're 22 and you don't have any, why don't you have it? I don't know. I just never started. Well, that's a blessing in disguise, my friend. All right. That's wonderful. I'm glad to hear that. So here's the thing.

You're right. The culture, including your dad, everybody says you need credit because everybody has been told by the banking industry for 75 years that the best way to become prosperous is borrow to buy the stuff you want. Uh-huh. Right? And so it's become culturally accepted that that's the way to become prosperous is borrow to buy the stuff you want. Uh-huh. Right? And so it's become culturally accepted that that's the way to go. However, that's a bill of goods sold to us by a villain known as the bank. Because it built large towers in our skylines, and they all had bank names on them.

It didn't build a large tower in your living room, because all your living room money from your dad went to that bank. And so the borrower is slave to the lender is a very real thing. And what we have discovered is the shortest, least risk path to wealth is to not have any payments and then the question always comes up well don't i need to get some payments so that i have credit why so that i can get some payments so that i have credit why so that i can get some payments so that i have credit and debt why and so the point being that um we tell folks to um you know stay out of debt because it's the shortest path to wealth. That's what it comes down to.

Mm-hmm. And you already discovered that watching our videos, right? Yeah. Okay. And I understand it's countercultural, but if you look around the culture, most people are broke. Mm-hmm. Exactly, yeah. And, John, let me let you in on this. I worked in

the industry, the banking world for about 12 years and didn't understand really the FICO score until I joined Dave's team. And the FICO score measures how much debt you have, the type of debt you have, the likelihood that they'll give you more debt and how you've paid debt. There's a theme there and that it's not a matter of how wealthy you are or how well you're doing. It's how you're doing with debt. So, no, sir, you don't need to bring on any debt in your life. I love the fact that you've avoided it at 22 and want to continue to encourage you to avoid it like the plague, like the plague. There is nothing positive that's going to come from it.

And I promise you, your mailbox is going to start to get some offers. You're going to start to see it and be more aware of it. And I want you to have that mindset ready, because as soon as you let your guard down, that's when stupid will creep in. Yeah, stupid will sneak up on you. Yes. Anthony is in Kansas City. Hi, Anthony.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. How are you doing? Great. How can I help? I have about a half million dollars in my checking account, and I have had it in there for a couple of years. I'm trying to figure out exactly what to do with it. My plan was to use it for real estate,

but the real estate market's got me a little spooked right now. Why? We live in a college or close to a college town and uh the market there they've built so many brand new complexes in the last 10 years nobody's going to college okay i'm with you exactly the enrollment rates are going down um you know so I'm a little bit leery of that. So what town are you in? I'm Manhattan, Kansas. Yeah, okay. All right.

So you're far enough away from Kansas City that you're probably not investing in Kansas City, right? Correct. Okay. Anthony, how old are you? I'm 45. Okay. You've done a great job. Yeah, you have.

Are you planning to stay in Manhattan? I'm planning. Okay. You've done a great job. Yeah, you have. Are you planning to stay in Manhattan? That depends. Don't necessarily need to. I have a hobby farm. I'm an electrical contractor by trade. But my real estate holdings, I have a couple rental properties too, but I have about a million and a half in real estate. That's all paid for. About a hundred thousand in cash five hundred thousand in my

checking about four hundred thousand and other assets like track loaders and tractors and you're a stud well done so proud of you it's got to feel great, man. I mean, you really did it. And I'm assuming you did all this starting from nothing. Correct. I had nothing, inherited nothing. Way to go. Well, here's what I would do if I woke up in your shoes, and I find myself in similar situations from time to time.

I'm between real estate deals, and I need access to the cash when I get ready to do the next real estate deal. That's where I find myself. It's where you find yourself because you're not going to drop that half a million into Manhattan. You've made that decision. I'm not going to recommend if you listen to me for more than 20 minutes, you know, this to be a long distance landlord. And so what I'm going to end up doing is just parking this probably in like an S&P 500,

you know, a no load fund fund, there's no commissions, and just ride the market with it a little bit while I'm waiting to decide what I'm going to do. And one of two things will happen, one of three things will happen. You decide to stay in Manhattan and the market gets soft as you predict, so you will not pull that money out and buy in Manhattan, so you're probably going to turn and invest it in some other vehicle for probably some mutual funds or something. Number two thing that could happen is you move and you're living in whatever, Kansas City, and you've got a great market to invest in. Then you pull the money out and you invest it then.

What was the third thing that could happen? The third thing could happen would be manhattan bounce back uh the college market firms back up and you feel good about investing in manhattan again pull the money out of the s&p and invest so you're parking it until something else moves another variable moves in this situation okay but checking account's not okay yeah and i realize that it's been but you know how it is kind of flies when you're having fun well and i'm sure your bank is reaching out blowing up your phone with all their ideas and thoughts real helpful right now and anthony mr drosdale's on the line there's a paul paul mr drosdale's on the line there's a paul paul mr drysdale's on the line there's a fourth option you may begin to look at something that gets to be on sale where you've

got someone that has to sell or is looking to sell and now you've put yourself in a situation to start to have some conversations about potentially buying yeah that that could happen as the market healed in Manhattan. That's right. That somebody couldn't quite survive the turn, and it's making an upward turn and you're comfortable with it. That could result in a really good purchase. Oh, great deal.

Yeah, that's a very, very good point. Dr. John Deloney is, you know, one of his 332 degrees he's got. He's got more degrees than a thermometer is in higher ed and he's talked about with you and i and a bunch of us behind the scenes and even somewhat what on the air um that to the extent that because of the student loan debacle and because covid sent everybody home and they realized uh these colleges are trying to charge us just as much sitting at home um i'm not getting getting the college experience. I don't see any IV on the walls here at my house.

So those two things hitting together are accelerating the demand for college degrees, on-campus living college degrees. They're accelerating that demand dropping. Right. It's been dropping. we saw with the student loan the covid thing has pushed it over the edge and so we are seeing some things like he's describing a college town like manhattan which is what kansas state right yep it's kansas state and um so uh you know we're seeing so many smaller towns where the economy is driven by college students that's right it's affecting their economies.

It really is. There's a lot of those around America. This is the Dave Ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the Dave Ramsey show. At the beginning of this year, buying your first home may have been one of your top goals. 2020 did not exactly shape out the way we all expected. Did it? Turned into a dumpster fire. If your plan's got sidetracked but homeownership's still the right move, you may want to talk to a real high-quality real estate agent.

A lot of areas of real estate is doing very well. As a matter of fact, this plane is straight up booming, and you need somebody in your corner to help guide you so you don't get emotional and pay too much or get ripped off in some kind of overbidding situation or something like that. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash agent. Find a trusted agent, an agent that we recommend, endorsed local provider for your real estate, DaveRamsey.com slash agent. Ethan is in Detroit.

Hi, Ethan. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. How are you doing? Great, man. How can we help? I work for an automotive maker, manufacturer. I'm an engineer there.

And one of the company perks or benefits, I guess, that they offer is an employee lease option. Right. So I can get a vehicle. It's a one-year lease, unlimited miles, with insurance included. Yep. And repairs and maintenance

repairs and maintenance are included tires are included everything's included yep and prior to working there i was paying around 200 in insurance just as an idea of that and i'm debating so my current payment is around $550,000, and I actually brought my wife in on the program recently. I'm debating if it's even worth it to carry that. The $550,000 is the lease on your employee deal? Yeah. Okay.

You're driving a nice car yeah it is it's a truck yeah you you didn't take you didn't take the cheaper chicken you got the big dog well because who is this ford or gm no it's fca fca chrysler oh okay all right well i've looked at several of these. Nissan is here in our neighborhood. I've looked at the Ford one. I've looked at the GM one. I don't know the Chrysler one off the top of my head, but most of these have nothing to do with a traditional car lease.

It's an employee benefit program. You basically got a car completely furnished, miles, everything, insurance, everything's built in at $550. you can't touch that truck for that that truck goes down 550 a month in value if you owned it okay and you got insurance and maintenance and gas and everything else they include gas don't they and some of them this one doesn't okay but. It's got everything. Does maintenance include it? Yep. All maintenance. So car breaks, you just take it in.

So this is an employee benefit. This is not like a typical lease. Not your evil car lease program that the other side of your company sells. But this is a great deal for you, Ethan. What are you driving? Like a Ram? Yeah, it's a Ram Laramie.

I thought you were. Usually it's not $550. It's usually like $300 when I'm running into these things. But you're driving a freaking $70,000 truck. That's the thing. So good for you! You cannot touch that truck for that kind of money. It's $6,000 a year

and everything's turnkey. If I worked there, I would do that deal. This is not a finance plan. This is not a lease. This is a simple employee benefit, and it is a killer employee benefit. Do it. I guess where I'm kind of debating is, so my wife is on it, too. She has a Wrangler.

Yeah. And I'm wondering if it's worth to have two vehicles on that or try to get something cheaper off. Let me try this again. You cannot operate a vehicle for three times what you're paying. Okay. Think about it. Add insurance, maintenance, depreciation, loss in value. Right, yeah.

Put those three numbers in the calculator dude the truck you're driving it take 1500 1400 a month to replace it okay because the stupid thing's going down in value more than you're paying a month not counting the maintenance and the insurance yeah and the same is true for her now the other the other question is, you know, can you afford, are you biting off too big a bite of the apple here? Does your household income support these payments? But the bottom line is if they support these payments and you were to go buy this vehicle,

you're going to have 3X in the vehicle what you're paying. Okay. So it's a great deal. Do as many of them as you need to do, as long as you can handle the cash flow out of your income. Which is unbelievable. So with a situation like this, Dave, if you were to leave the company, you're just turning in the vehicle. Yeah, you lost it. You lost your employee benefit. You lost it. Okay. And you do need to flip it every year because they're flipping these things out that, you know, it's a small percentage of their total

production going to the employees. Right. But the Nissan plant is very similar right down here on the road from us. The Ford plant is very similar. I've seen those. And BMWs, the other ones, they've got one that's pretty similar, too. The guys over in South Carolina that listen to us over there at the Beamer plant, they got the same option of driving a stinking beamer for a third a fourth of what it would cost you anyone else right to buy it outside of that employee listen everybody out there that's

listening real quick we're talking about an employee benefit program not not at least not at least yeah i don't want don't don't blow up my inbox with this uh it's an employee benefit plan which is why people are able to do that so it's part of their recruiting it's part of the benefits that they're given to their team members so just wanted to clarify that yeah in his case on that laramie it's worth the employee benefit the value to him is around a thousand dollars a month because it'd be 1500 to replace what he's doing for 500 oh yeah his truck payment yeah without a shadow of a doubt so that's another twelve thousand dollars a year in income or effectively his benny package is adding another twelve thousand dollars a year to his value again

assuming you can support that level of truck with your income we did not ask his household income i got sidetracked on that but as chris said it's very very very smart to say uh out loud we are not saying it's okay lease a car this is not leasing a car this is renting from your employee employer as a benefit that's all it is they call it a one-year lease but you can turn it anytime you want right they don't even hold you to that on these things it's very very good program open phones at 888-825-5225. Steven's in Tucson. Hey, Steven, what's up? Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help?

My wife and I are currently on baby step number six, and we're trying to pay off the mortgage within about five years. We have about two years left on that, and we're doing that by paying an extra $2,000 a month. However, a week and a half ago, we welcomed our first child. Yay. So we're going to begin saving for a college fund.

Good. So my question is, can I tackle both baby steps five and six at the same time by reducing that extra mortgage payment to around $1,600 and put $400 in the college savings? As a matter of fact, you're supposed to do four, five, and six all simultaneously. You're doing four, right? I'm sorry? You're doing baby step four, right? Yeah, we're completed with baby step.

I mean, we're still doing baby step four, yeah. It's simultaneous. You're putting every month, you're putting 15% of your income, right? Correct. Yeah, because don't tell Mr. Retirement over here to my right that you're not doing your retirement, okay? Chris will take that personal. Yeah, no, you're doing it, buddy. You're doing it. And you could even back that down to $300 a month as far as saving for college and keep tracking and attacking the house. And then think about it. In five years, the mortgage is paid off.

You can decide to step it up or you may have decided to add to your family either way. But, Stephen, no, four, five, and six, they're done all at the same time. Great job. Yeah, you're doing a really good job. You're paying attention. You're listening to what we're teaching and you're doing it. And as a result, you're going to have the success. So I'm very, very proud of you. And by the way, folks, once you get past Baby Step 3, you're listening to what we're teaching, and you're doing it, and as a result, you're going to have the success. So I'm very, very proud of you.

And by the way, folks, once you get past baby step three, you're out of debt. You have your emergency fund in place. One, two, and three, you do in sequence. Four, five, and six, you do simultaneously, but you also let your foot off the gas, and you're not quite as gazelle intense. It's not just beans and rice, rice and beans. You can actually get a steak while you're in those. You can go in the

restaurant, people. You can go in the restaurant. Yeah. Not to wash the dishes but to eat. Oh, there we go. There it is. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Chris Hogan Ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the air open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Kathy is with us in Minneapolis. Hi, Kathy. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you so much.

I hope you both are doing well. We are. How can we help? So my question for you is, I'm at the end of the divorce. We're at the time where the division is happening of assets. I was awarded the homestead. It has a mortgage and a HELOC on it. And after the quadro and, you know, the division of all 401ks, et cetera, I'm getting a payment of 300 and some thousand dollars, but 200 and some thousand dollars of it is in a Roth.

And I'm wondering if you would advise me to refinance the house or if you feel I could use the money to pay it off. What do you owe on the home? So the mortgage is $52,000, but it was a 10-year mortgage, you know, so the payment's hefty. It's like over three grand a month. And the HELOC is $175,000. Oh, is that how much is outstanding on the balance? Yes. Okay. And so you owe two and a quarter. What's the house worth? It's worth about $600. All right. You got children at home? So we have one minor child and two adult children. Okay. And the minor child at home with you? He is. He splits. Okay. But his age is what?

16. Okay. All right. And what do you make? So I've been a stay-at-home mom, but I do have my real estate license. So I will most likely continue to do real estate. I just dabbled in it, but, you know, I can amp that up. But I do, you know, I do get a pretty substantial spousal allowance. How much?

Like $6,500. A month. Okay. Yeah. Kathy, what does this house mean to you? Is there an emotional tie to this home? Yes, and it's where my kids want to be. Your kids? You have a kid?

I mean, I have a kid. For two years? Yes, but, you know, it's on water. It has a pool. It's like a country club. It's a beautiful house. Country clubs are cheaper. And it needs love.

Right. Well, and I ask that because you led with what the kids wanted, and I need to know what Kathy wants. I want the house. Okay. Why? So what happened? So because I received as a birthday gift, a financial analyst from, for my sister, you know, my sister bought that for me. And, um, so when we were doing all of the calculations, this gave me the greatest, you know, financial future by keeping the house

as opposed to then having to go buy something. Bull crap. That's ridiculous. This money invested in other things could give you a much greater rate of return than owning a house that you can barely hang on to by your fingernails when you don't even have an income yet, and you're rebuilding your life emotionally outside of that financial analyst wrong okay now if you want to stay in the house i'll help you fight to stay in the house i i i'll looking in

from the outside as your older brother who has not been involved in the emotions of the divorce and had my heart ripped out and stomped on by muddy boots, I have a different view of things than you have. Okay? You're still trying. I'm going to just step all over you. Are you ready? Can you handle it? Yep.

Okay. You're trying to. This house represents the past and the good parts of the past, and you want some of that. And I think there's a future, and it doesn't have to be this year, but it's not worth cashing out your retirement to hold on to this thing. I think you get out there, hustle some real estate, use your $6,500 income, and you pay these stinking payments, and you hold on to this thing. And a year from now, when the last one's getting ready to go off to college,

you decide if you really want to be in the country club business anymore. Okay. Because I think you move to a different property that's part of your emotional healing and your fresh start that is not as strenuous as this one is, because every time you walk in a room in this place, some bell goes off for the rest of your life. No, I don't disagree with that. Yeah, you get a chance to redefine your new future moving forward. And as much as I talk about dreaming in high definition,

you've got to now learn to dream again of what this is going to look like for you moving forward. And your 16-year-old doesn't get to be a shot caller in this. They don't get a vote on this. No, they don't. They're not. This is about you. They're going to look at that pool in the rearview mirror the way by yep uh sorry i'm breaking your heart mommy it's been a long day for you but you know what dave it's it's good she needs to hear that because

she's going to be in the driver's seat now moving forward for her and her future yeah i and you can probably pull this off and here's the thing if you wait a year and then you decide to not take our advice and cash out that retirement and pay it off and you keep it because I was wrong, there's no harm in that. The year didn't cost you anything except some strain making $3,000 a month payments, but you can do that. You've got some other money involved in this situation too. So the overall answer to your question is I predict that this house is not a permanent part of your future. I think you will find higher and

better uses for your life and your money than the protection of the country club. But I might be wrong. So camp it out for a year, tough it out for a year, cash flow it out for a year, and let's see where you end up then. Let's see how the real estate business is going. Let's see where your heart is. You'll be in a better decision, better position grief-wise to make that decision at that time. The good news is you don't have to sell it today, and you don't have to pay it off today. Yeah. But it is a strenuous year ahead of you if you don't. It is. And Kathy, you're going to need to sit down and do some math because this $175,000 on the HELOC, you're making an interest-only payment on this. And that's okay for a year.

Right. It's okay for a year. But after that, you need to decide, okay, I'm either going to refinance this and work my way through these mortgages, I'm going to use some of this other cash, or I'm going to use some of the quadro, pull it, and dump it on this thing. But I disagree with the premise that this house, singular, this particular house is the highest and best part of your financial future. What was it, a financial analyst she got for her birthday? That's what she said. An analyst. Analyze this.

You know, I mean, you can take your, she asks his opinion, she asks our opinion. She's a grown lady, she gets the decision. She knows we're right. I disagree, I mean, you can take your, she asks his opinion, she asks our opinion. Right. She gets, she's a grown lady, she gets to decide. She knows we're right. I disagree, though. That's right. I do understand that real estate is an excellent investment. And I do agree with that.

I do agree this piece of her asset base will grow maybe more than the other asset pieces. Right. And she finds great comfort in it today uh but i i really think that some of that i know from having worked with ladies after divorces that held on to things they could barely hold on to to try to keep the past alive and i've just been through this conversation like 8 000 times in 30 years so i think you're going to find something different at the end of the year i might be wrong and i'm okay with being wrong i'm okay and you And you can say, eh, Dave Ramsey was wrong, if you want to. That's okay.

Yeah, I'm good with that. But if I'm you, I'm going to just sit there for a year, and let's see where we go, and let's get some healing behind us. And you've been through a really tough time, Kevin. It's a very hard, hard time, because what you're describing, the numbers you're describing here are a 25 or 30 year marriage and there's some real uh stuff that has gone on here yeah that we haven't discussed and we don't even know what it is but there has to be this amount of money being transferred back and forth

sixty five hundred dollars coming your way it's very unusual and so. And so there's some very painful things that go with these numbers. They have to. So I'm sorry. Sorry you've had the year you've had. I'm sorry that things didn't turn out the way they were supposed to. But I would not cash out your retirement today to do this. I really wouldn't. Thank you for your call. Chris Hogan, thanks for hanging out this hour. Yes, sir. Thank you for having me. That puts this particular hour of The Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register.

We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.