The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Fire a Cannonball That Hasn't Been Calibrated (Hour 2)

Episode Date: May 13, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host this hour on the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm glad to have her here answering your questions. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. Tim is on the line in Florida. Hi, Tim. Your question for Rachel and me. Yes, so I've got a question about the CARES Act. I believe you talked about how the CARES Act gets rid of the penalty for the 401k if you take it out. Correct. Now I'm currently in baby step two. I've got about 30,000 in debt. I've got probably about 10,000 in a 401k that I accrued prior to starting the Baby Steps. And basically, my question is, would it be smart to go ahead and take that money out, apply it to Baby Step 2, and then that

way I'll be about four months, I'll be able to get to Baby Step 4 about four months sooner. Tim, do you still have an income coming in? I do. And it's about to go up because my second job will let me back in. Oh, perfect. Yeah, I would not. I wouldn't touch it. Even though you're not going to get penalized from it, I would keep it in because number one, you'd be pulling it out toward the bottom of the market. So any growth you had had, it would have just been gone. So leaving it in and considering that your income is still stable and what you're bringing in, the only reason we would cash out 401k's retirement is to avoid a bankruptcy or a foreclosure. And you're not in that position. In fact,

your income's going up. And so I would buckle down, pay off the debt, but I would definitely keep your 401k in, that money in, versus cashing it out agreed and keep in mind that the 10 penalties wave the taxes are not so you don't have 10 000 you got 7 500 after you pay your taxes so it's not no i i completely would it's the worst possible time to take money out of the market right now while it's down um and uh it's tempting i see it sitting there and that them taking the 10% penalty off. Really what that amounts to is if someone is in dire straits, like Rachel said, of trying to avoid a foreclosure, a bankruptcy,

that kind of a thing, then they can get to their money without the penalty. That's what the CARES Act was for. It wasn't really to rearrange your investments and use them to pay debt. So that's advice we've given for 30-plus years, and really it does work beautifully. The same advice works beautifully in exactly these settings. The 10% being taken off makes it a little more tempting, but it still doesn't make it smart.

It's still not smart if you're in bad straits, but you just have to do it because you're starving to death. That's not your case. You've got two jobs. You're in great shape, and you're a hustler, man. You're getting it. I'm proud of you. So good question. Thanks for joining us. Sarah's in Texas. Hey, Sarah, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave and Rachel. Hey, what's up? My question, yeah, my husband and I were wondering how much longer can we hit pause on investing to save for Baby Step 3?

Well, 3B, actually, because I haven't been investing since 2016 because I was paying off my debt, and my husband has only been putting in about 10% of his income for a year. Okay. So how much longer would you want to pause it to save up your down payment? It would take us about two years. We're still saving for Baby Step 3, which we'll have that done by October this year. Okay. What's your household income?

About $120 gross. Okay. What's your household income? About $120,000 gross. Okay. So why is it taking so long to do these two things? Finish your emergency fund and then save your down payment? Well, we've only been married six months. I'm talking about going forward. Going forward, not looking back. Going forward, you got $120,000 household income. You got no payments but a house payment. And you don't have a house payment. You got no payments but rent. And so why is it taking you so long to get your emergency fund bill? The expenses, my daughter's medical expenses, it about 1200 a month and then um 1200 a month is

14 000 out of 120 that doesn't answer it yeah we're able to save about 3 000 a month right now okay all right so well you know i don't i don't know that it's going to take you two years to do all of this is my point. So you're doing better than the two years indicated. That's $36,000 a year. You probably still could do some more, but that's not bad. So the question is, obviously, when you do Baby Step 3B, that means you're saving up for a down payment. And what that means is you're either doing that while you're doing your Baby step four, which is 15% going into retirement, or you're pausing. Right now, you've chosen to pause

to save more. If that's making you nervous, go ahead and start and take a little longer to save your down payment. But finish out baby step three, because I think she's still in that. So you're finishing that out, and then once you're done with that in October, then you can go to start investing 15% of your income retirement. Anything else savings you can put to that down payment, but it'll take longer for you to save for that down payment while you're investing versus if you chose to keep pausing investing until you save up that 10% or 20% for the down payment. So it's an either-or for you. It's just the urgency of when you want to buy the house.

Yeah, and what size of an emergency fund are you trying to build to? So you're on track. You're doing pretty good. But it's just, you know, Baby Step 3B, that's what we nicknamed it because people, you don't save for a house until you're out of debt and have the emergency fund. So you've done that, or you will have done that by October. Then do you reinstitute? And by the way, your husband should not be putting money into his 401k at this

point either. You should both stop until you get to your emergency fund. Then once you do that, then you decide how much are we going to put into retirement up to 15%, zero until up zero to 15, somewhere in there, until you get your down payment bill. And sometimes folks are more concerned about retirement than they are buying a house, and so they go ahead and start, and it delays buying the house a little bit. Not a lot, but a little bit. It's 15%. It's not 50%. And so you can still get there. All right.

Roger is with us in Texas. Hey, Roger, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, Rachel. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? I had a question about should I – I'm a firefighter for Medicare in Texas.

Should I rely on my mandatory pension to retire, or should I add to it when I get to Baby Step 4? Currently, I'm on Baby Step 2. Are they taking money out of your check for the pension? Yes. How much? It's a mandatory 15%. Oh, 15%. But you don't have any control over it.

I wouldn't want to rely on it 100%, but maybe your baby step four is not 15% since your pension is. But I would back it off and say, instead of doing baby step four, 15%, maybe you do it at, I don't know, five or 10%. But you need some money other than that pension money when you get to retirement. So let's build up an emergency or let's build up a 401k or a Roth IRA to the side of that. In addition to that, that's money you control. You don't control this pension. You don't get to control what it's invested in. You don't get to control when it's handed out.

You don't get to control any of that. And that scares me in this. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. folks i love telling you about well-made well-thought-out products today i'm talking about grip six belts i don't know about you but I'm not a fan of traditional belts. They never fit right, and they're uncomfortable. Grip 6 belts are unique. Owner BJ designed a truly modern, minimalist belt made of high-quality materials with no holes, no flap, and no bulk. And the buckles come in really cool designs and are interchangeable. I personally own these belts in different styles, and talk about affordability I personally own these belts in different styles,

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have now taken us up on that. That's pretty wild. It's incredible. Absolutely incredible. And it was really just kind of our knee-jerk reaction to putting hope back out in the marketplace during all this pandemic. We're like, okay, what can we do to help people and get people involved when it comes to their money, get them in a more secure place? And the best way of doing that is teaching people how to do that, and then they have to go do it themselves. But Financial Peace University, like, that's it. Like, that's the bread and butter of how to do everything from insurance to budgeting to getting out of debt. I mean, we cover so much in it.

And so the fact that, yeah, 80,000 people. I don't even know if I knew that number. How to build wealth, how to become outrageously generous, real estate lesson, all of it. The classic, I mean, 6 million people plus have been through, 6 million families have been through Financial Peace University. And so it's pretty crazy. And now 80,000 in the last 40 days or so, just under 80, but we're just under 80,000 in the last 40 days or so, just under 80, but we're just under 80,000 in the last 40 days or so, have taken us up on this. So we're continuing it. I do not know how much longer we will continue a 14-day free trial,

but entire areas of the country are still completely locked down, and some of you are still stuck at home. It's kind of weird to us in Tennessee. We've been open for a couple of weeks now. And it's starting to, you know, we're starting to feel the rhythm of our life come back a little bit. And then you read about folks in California and Michigan and see the news reports and really feel for you guys. I know it's I know it's really tough on you. And so this hopefully we can help you. And some of you, regardless of whether you're still in lockdown or not, while you were in that lockdown, had that I've had it moment. I'll never again be here, be in this situation and be broke. Never again will

I be back and be broke. And we'll show you how. And there's nothing, there's no shame in having an I've had it moment, a never again moment. The shame would be in having it and then doing nothing about it. And we'll show you how. A free 14-day trial for financial peace. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash hope or DaveRamsey.com slash FPU. Either one will get you in. All right, Casey is with us. Casey's in Oregon. Hi, Casey.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So I am calling in today because I recently just graduated with my doctor of pharmacy last week, but I am also not proud to say that I, during that time period, accrued about

$270,000 worth of student loans. For a pharmacy degree? Yeah, it's eight years years so between my undergrad and graduate school oh baby girl oh my gosh you graduated last week you graduated last week congratulations thank you thank you so much yeah and then that just not exactly what i pictured for graduation but well yeah i mean you got hit you know, it's like, woohoo, and get hit in the face with a snowball. Yeah, I mean, it's like, wow. Exactly.

Oh, my goodness. So when do you pass your boards? So that is what I'm studying for right now. That part is really up in the air because most of the testing centers are closed. They're not doing them virtual. Interesting. No. So they do not allow any virtual testing

some of the testing centers are slowly starting to open good um but do you have a job lined up when you pass i actually before even passing i have a job lined up so i have my residency starting july 1st um and i'll be making about 54 000 but that's only a one year kind of contract continuing education thing but at least it's a it's a job. You have a one-year residency? Yes. Hmm that seems long. I thought most of the pharmacy students I talked to have gone straight to work. I didn't is that an Oregon thing or am I missing something? No, so with the pharmacy degree, you can kind of jump right into working. How it's kind of working now is most of your retail or community setting pharmacies will allow you to do that.

So going into your Walmart, Walgreens, that kind of thing. But if you're hoping to do any type of hospital-related pharmacy gig, you have to have a residency, so a little bit of other training. Okay, but it pays double. Yes. did you have to have a residency so a little bit of training okay but it pays double um yes most of them are making 100 to 135 that i'm talking to does that sound right yes and that's if you're going straight into it so once i've done with this on your residency i will be making that 100 to 135 but again kind of taking that getting a job that i think I would like more. I do take that pay cut for a year. Can you do the residency later? It is a possibility, although I already accepted the position.

It's a $60,000, $70,000 expense you just took on with a $270,000 student loan bill. So that's what's concerning me. I'd want to be making some money and attacking the student loans and then maybe go back and do my residency. Yeah. Most of the residents, if you wait, it's most likely like a year waiting. So I could take a year off, I guess. Yeah, that's correct.

Yeah. And then go from there. Because, Casey, the job, because you're taking the MD, or I'm sorry, you're doing the residency for a year because the job that you're going to want is one that you want more long-term than going into a different type of field. So the question would be...

But when you finish residency, what would you be making in your field? Same thing, so $100,000 to $130,000. This is a different type. So, I mean, if I was in your shoes yeah i mean honestly i would probably pause the residency just go get a job for three years of one that yeah you don't love it it's still in your field though and you're getting that those reps and you're able to pay this off because if you're making 130 right right away i mean i'd live on nothing do that for about

three years do the student loans and then take the year of the 50 grand because you'll have actually no payments at that point and then go because this is a long-term decision for you so for the short term i would almost just rather make the sacrifice make some money and then go back to the residency otherwise you're just basically putting um the majority of your debt reduction on hold yet another year. And so graduation doesn't mean much to your 270. It's still sitting there. Oh, by the way, you get to pay in on it after six months anyway. I don't think residents, well, maybe residency will qualify for keeping the student loans on pause.

I don't know if it will or not. But, wow, I would be chomping at the bit to get my income up if I was you. That's why I'm thinking about this. But if you go this route, you know, you're just going to have a, obviously, you're going to be putting a lot less for one year onto the debt than you would if you went a different route. And that's why we're springing to action on the math for you. But wow, wow, wow.

Very deep, very deep. Thanks for the call. Open phones at 888-825-5225. The number of times that we run into folks with overwhelming student loan debt. That's what I was just thinking. I mean, 250 is obviously extremely high, but that's not rare. I mean, you're hearing people that are getting these advanced degrees, and it's just becoming the norm. And being able to think outside the norm is what keeps you out of that hole. Yeah.

Anthony O'Neill's number one bestseller, Debt-Free Degree, shows lots of ways to go through school. She's already there. We're not shaming her. That's not the point. But if you've got a 19, I mean, you've got a 17-year-old and they're thinking about becoming a pharmacy student, I mean, you need to discuss this call with them.

Because it just takes your breath away. It takes your breath away. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Business leaders, now more than ever, we need people with the right skills to support our communities, especially the frontline workers who provide resources and care for those most in need. To help, LinkedIn is offering free job posts for health care and essential service organizations that need to quickly fill critical roles with the people who help us all. If you are hiring for one of these organizations, free job posts on LinkedIn can help you quickly find the right people for your front line.

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Terms and conditions apply. Thanks for joining us, America. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, my co-host this hour. Tom is with us in New Jersey. Hey, Tom, how are you? Hey, Dave, Rachel, how are you doing today? Great. How can we help?

So, question for you, and I think when I was on hold, I might have heard the answer already. I'm 62 years old. I have about 1.6 in my 401k plan. I have about $22,000 in credit card bills, and I want to get rid of them, because they just won't go away. So, would you recommend in that situation to take it out of the 401k plan, or is there going to be a tax implication year-round if I do that? You'll pay taxes on whatever you take out. You won't have a penalty on it because of the CARES Act.

How do you have $1.6 million in your 401K and don't have any other money? It's just I've been working for a company for 40 years, so I've just been putting it into my... You don't have any other savings? I have other stock. I have about $225 in stock that I have. Use that. Use that instead. That's going to be my other question.

Yeah. Okay. But is there still a tax hit on that, or is that all based on... There might be a tax on it, but it's not in a retirement account. I wouldn't, yeah. I mean, it's 6-1 after the other mathematically. For me, it's just the holy grail is your 401K. It's what got you here.

I mean, you're worth a couple million dollars. Congratulations. Touchdown. You killed it. Way to go. I'm assuming you did not inherit this since it's all in a 401K, right? Absolutely not. Yeah.

You've earned this through your working lifetime. How old are you? You said 62? 62, yeah. What do you do for a living? Maybe four more. In sales. Okay.

And you sound like an everyday millionaire. So you didn't inherit the money. You simply earned it and saved it. Correct. And now you're worth a couple million dollars plus. Way to go. I just want to get these credit card bills away so then when I do retire in three years, I can enjoy the rest. So I may just sell some of that stock.

Yeah, and here's the trick now, okay? The credit cards are not the problem. They're the symptom. So we have to plug the leak. And the leak is, number one way we plug the leak is we cut up the credit cards, get a debit card, so you only spend money you have from this point forward. It'll do everything your credit card will do except put you into debt. And the second thing you do is you get on a written plan.

You've been so good with money. And just the fine tuning would be the written plan is going to give you a sense of power. Rachel, when you're talking about the budget, you talk about the power. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think a lot of people assume a budget limits your freedom, but it doesn't. It gives you freedom. And so instead of weighing down with this $22,000 in credit card debt, if you're on a budget, you're using a debit card, there's none of that weight. So it actually gives you the freedom to spend money and not have to be guilty about it not have to question it it's all right there and and getting into that habit i think is is going to be key considering you will be retiring in about

three years um that you make the retirement that you have already in your 401k and the stocks that let that go even further in retirement versus just feeling like, oh, I'm going to just cash it out and go crazy. That budget and getting that habit in now is so key. You've done an amazing, amazing job. So the $22,000 is not a big deal, but it is symptomatic. And so if I were in your shoes, I'd cut the cards and I'd live on a plan. The plan doesn't mean you can't do anything. The plan means you can do whatever you decide to do except go into debt. It was just sloppy. It was the intellectual laziness that allowed you to stumble into this little bit of debt. And it is a little bit of debt relative to the fact that you're worth $2 million. So you have done amazingly well, sir.

Congratulations. So he pretty well outlines Chris Hogan's Everyday Millionaire's book. When we studied 10,000 millionaires, we found lots of people just like tom all over america yep not making a crazy huge salary but they just save in their retirement over time over 40 years and what one point what do you say 1.3 1.6 1.6 and two and a quarter in stocks in there so you know assuming there's a house in there somewhere it's well over two million i'm sure and that's what we found all the time that paid for house and their retirement plan 401k roth IRAs that kind of thing 79 of the millionaires in america based on the largest study of millionaires ever done

airtight research technique 79 inherited nothing five percent inherited not enough to get them to a million dollars at any mathematically under any in other words they may inherited five grand or something that doesn't make you a millionaire but they did inherit something so another five percent another five percent inherited money only after they were already millionaires so obviously didn't cause them to be millionaires so five and five is 10 plus 79 is 89. That is 89%. Nine out of 10 millionaires in America were not millionaires mathematically because of inherited money. And Tom's one of them. Way to go, Tom. Proud of you. If you're interested in that study and in the conclusions, Chris Hogan's number one bestselling book, Everyday Millionaires, is a great read. If you are having trouble sleeping, we actually have the white paper from the study

available now in a Ramsey Quick Read. It's pretty much nerd fodder. I was going to say, if you have trouble sleeping. Yeah, it's nerd fodder. Just a lot of details, a lot of numbers. I had to read it because I'm the CEO of the company, and I don't put stuff out without reading it, and I fell asleep twice reading it, and paid for the study so there you go i mean it's bad but i mean it's it's a white paper it's a research paper but some of the nerds want all the details and so we've got that thing available for ten dollars now the new national study of we had it up there for 10 bucks as a just a download for a while but they decided to create cost of goods sold and so now we actually have a... Now I'm paying more money to give you guys this white paper, but oh well.

It's cute. It's got Chris Hogan's cute little face on it, and so that'll keep bugs out of your kitchen too while you got it. So you can sleep well. It's got pest control built in, all for $10. Lots of benefits on this thing. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Chris is in Maryland.

Hey, Chris, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Nice to be here. Call because I was introduced to you earlier this year, around February time frame. So I'm just starting the baby steps, but I'm on baby step number two.

And I wrote a book last year. I finished it in December. Congratulations. So I'm looking to get it published. That's a lot of work. Yeah, it took some time, but I got it done. So I'm looking to get it published, and I'm looking around at different publishers,

and it looks like it's going to be about $3,000 to do that. And I'm still vetting out the publisher, so that may change. But I wanted to get your opinion on how I should come up with the money for that. Again, I'm still on baby step number two. How much longer before you're out of debt in two? It's going to be quite some time. I have $75,000 in student loans. I have just under $15,000 in a personal loan and then $1,200 on a credit card that I'm paying off next month.

What's your household income? $65,000. Okay, cool. What's the book about? It's a religious romance, if you will. Okay, all right. And so Christian fiction, so to speak. Yes.

Okay, cool. Good. Good for you. That's a neat idea. All right. Well, what I would tell you is this. It sounds like you're negotiating with what we call a vanity publisher, where you're paying them for a little bit of marketing.

You're paying them for the typeset on the book. You're paying them for a little bit of marketing, you're paying them for the typeset on the book, you're paying them for this other stuff. Probably a more economical way to get the book to market. You're not going to make as much per book initially, but you can get it to market this way, would be to just work with Amazon on their on-demand program. You can send them the files, and they'll produce the books one at a time,

digitally as needed, digital printing. And it's a lot more per book, but they'll fulfill it. You can send all your customers to Amazon, whatever marketing plan you've got. And you don't have to have 3,000 books in your basement that way or $3,000 worth of books in your basement. And you can come out. If I remember correctly, I haven't read their terms in a while, but I think they've got almost no upfront money on the thing. And if you can do something like that, just do an on-demand deal, and then you go do your marketing, your sweat, hustle,

getting people to the book like we do when we're doing a book. Right, Rach? Yeah, absolutely. We'll go in that route too. It gives you a lot of power versus being with a publisher too. Yeah. You don't pay a publisher. If you're paying someone, that's not a publisher. You're just paying someone to print the book and they're supposed to be helping you with marketing or whatever. And that's usually called a vanity press. I would do an Amazon on demand deal before I did that and then go do your marketing yourself. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

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My co-host this hour, Ramsey personality, Rachel Cruz. Al is with us in Massachusetts. Hey, Al, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Pleasure to speak Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Pleasure to speak to you. You too, sir. What's up? It's just a question, Dave, on whether a plan we came up with, my wife and I, last year is still worth the risk of going through with.

So we're both British. We've been living in the U.S. for about five years. Good neighborhood, stable situation. But we decided last year to move back over the summer to the UK to be nearer grandparents because the college for our kids over there is much cheaper than the US. Since then, the coronavirus has hit, and really all of the job opportunities I had have gone away, and there's more people chasing fewer jobs.

And even the rental market in the town we were going to live in, that's just really flipped on its head, and we can't find the sort of houses that we'd look at. So my question is, you know, whether we rethink the plans and press ahead. We've got a fair bit of savings, but I don't know how long that might last. And it's one of those what-would-Dave-do type situations. I'm a bold person, but I don't like risk. That seems to be in conflict, but that's true. And so I tend to – I need to see the boat close enough to the dock before I jump

so that I don't hit the water. And you've got no boat. If you go now, you're going on a wing and a prayer you burn through your savings you got nothing uh so i i can't make that decision today based on the information you just gave me now i don't know personally but um i've got to see some job hopes um that are reasonable and i've got to see some job hopes that are reasonable, and I've got to see some housing hopes that are reasonable. You gave me zero hope right now on both of those, didn't you? Okay, yeah. So I am interviewing for jobs, but everything's on kind of like pause.

Yes, we might do it in future. I'm at last round interviews. What is the big harm in waiting to september as an example um the thing we put at risk then is if we get the kids over there after september they don't go into the um same school system and then we lose the opportunity to have essentially cut price collegeice college. Okay. When do they go to college? They'll be going, some will be going in about 10 years, but you've got to be resident in the UK for 10 years to qualify.

Okay. So you have, the oldest one has got a fuse burning then, right? Yes, correct. And we have about $ thousand dollars in savings well here's what here's what you're wagering here's your you know obviously you know this you've already figured this out but i just try to put it on the table in front of me when i'm looking at this and you're saying before my seventy thousand dollars runs out the job market and the housing market heals otherwise i'm screwed and I'm homeless.

Correct. Yeah, that's what you're saying. And I've got to have some more of an assurance than that. But the fuse is if you don't move by the fall, the oldest child is not going to be qualified for college. Yeah, and he'll have to pay international rates, which are even more expensive than going to college in the U.S. Okay.

So, Al, what's your motive, what's your motivation to move back to the States, just simply for the job? To the U.K. Always for the college. It's partially the college, but partially for family as well. You're moving home.

Yeah, our parents are there, and they're not getting any younger, and they probably need some support right now. This is May. I'm going to see how many of these variables I can get much more comfortable with before the last minute and you set foot on the soil at the last possible minute or are as soon as after the variables go away in other words if you got a job you can probably work housing out if you got housing worked out you probably figure out a way to make a living eventually right

yeah you kind of got a double barrel hit right now and i i you got so much unknown i'm not just going to up and move today uh but you know maybe you you work you work the problem you work the problem hard between now and the time that date is up and um get some anchor right whether it's housing whether it's get some get some of the controllables under control yeah because you got you're just the whole thing's out of control the whole thing's a wing and a prayer and um honestly it would scare me to death uh i get that i want to move home be near grandparents i get that we want to save on the college that all makes sense uh but um i've just done too many things on a wing and a prayer that brought me pain because the timing was off on them.

And so I don't know. Maybe one of the kids is going to pay international rates. Or maybe you lobby for a waiver on that because you came and you only were there nine years rather than ten. Or you find out about waivers on that. Is there a way to get a waiver on it and so on uh and so i'm just going to push through on all of that somehow i've got to limit the risk more than it feels right now because this feels like you're jumping off a clip and cliff and hoping to grow wings on the way down that just scares me man um so that that's the plan. Thanks for the call. And, you know, in my early days, my boldness as a younger Dave caused me to just launch onto stuff like that.

And every time I've done that, it's brought me not every time, but many times it's brought me pain. Around here we use Jim Collins' concept. He says, you know, shoot musket balls until you get the until you get the, you know, the result you want distance and you get the distance dialed in until you get the result you want and then fire a cannonball. But don't fire cannonballs that haven't been calibrated. And this feels like a large launch of a cannonball, just hoping you're going to hit something with it. and that scares a crud out of me i've done it before but um it truly is a wing and a prayer and it's um it's the kind of stuff that could set you back a decade financially if you if you don't get some of the variables

out of the way so i'm just going to keep but what i found is is if i just keep working the problem working the problem you keep working on the job keep working on the housing working on a wavier i just added a piece to it work it work it work it work it just keep pounding on it keep beating on it keep hitting people's doors keep moving around it's like i'm not gonna just quit but you know and i can get a more of a comfort level yeah that that i'm that i'm then i can make them because you're putting the control back into into your space right being proactive and saying i'm going i'm going to go out and do some things to make things happen versus taking more of a passive reaction yeah reaction um perspective it's just i mean we live in nashville and so the number of people that move to nashville with nothing no plan

i'm gonna be a star and you know the joke around nashville is how do you get the next country music star's attention? A waiter, you know, and so, you know, just God told me to move. That's my favorite one. Because God has absolutely no wisdom. He just told you to just up and move, and you have no job and no place to live and no money, and this is God's fault. That one kills me right there as a Christian. Ignorance, you know, and you blame it on God. And so, you know, no, that's not God. god that wasn't god speaking god doesn't act that way the mind of man plans his

ways the lord directs his steps there's scripture that indicates that that is not god you know but but i hear that because we're in nashville where there's more more baptists than people i mean it's a christian town so uh we get that we get that part to go with the music business it's a weird mix and i don't i'm not accusing you of doing that al that's not a uh i didn't hear weird stuff like that coming from you but it's that same kind of a decision though where there's no safety net there's nothing to catch me i'm just gonna jump and hope i grow wings on the way down right and i just i'm too scaredy cat to do that i'm a i'm a because i just have too many scars from every time i did it so i always try to get the boat closer meaning

work the problem get the boat closer to the dock and then you just step off the dock onto the boat you know like when you when do i quit my job when i've started a side hustle that's going to become my new business when your side hustle is making you close to as much as you're making it your real job and you're really exhausted because you're working two full-time jobs and the boat gets close, then you step over into it and you quit your old job. You don't go, I think this is going to work. We're going to just go for it. We're just going for it.

Yeah. Scare me to death, man. Ah, Rachel Cruz, thanks for hanging out. Yes, thanks for having me on. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show on the books. Thanks to James Childs, our producer. Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host.

We'll be back. In the middle of these uncertain times, Ramsey Solutions wants to give you some hope. For the very first time ever, we're giving you Financial Peace University free for 14 days. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash hope so you can watch from home.