The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Gamble Your Savings on Day Trading (Hour 3)

Episode Date: November 26, 2019

Chris Hogan, Savings, Debt, Retirement Tools to get you started: Debt Calculator: http://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: http://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: http://bit.ly/2QEyonc Interview Guide: http://bit.ly/2BuGnZE Check out other podcasts in the Ramsey Network: http://bit.ly/2JgzaQR

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumped, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Kelly is with us in Wyoming. Hi, Kelly. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So my husband is active duty military, and we've been calling our way out of our debt.

We started at $250,000, and we're down to about $150,000. And he's looking at getting out. He can separate in about four years, but we were wondering if he should extend for a year so that we could get the loan forgiveness because he signed up for that about five years ago. Okay, so how much, if he stays in one more year, how much loan forgiveness does that get him? So it'll be in four years that he's getting out and then he'd extend a year from that. So at that point, it'll be about $30,000 forgiven. Over the next four years, we can pay off both of our credit cards, one student loan and our car, and then we'd have about $60,000 left. So about half of it could get forgiven if the government actually forgives it. Well, this is a military program. It's not the student loan forgiveness

program, right? Oh, yeah oh yeah yeah so i didn't realize those are different things they're very different yeah the military actually honors its word um as opposed to the department of education yeah but um yeah the uh uh so what does he make a year? About $33,000. Okay. And if he got $30,000 forgiven in a single year with a one-year extension, that would have doubled his income. Right. I mean, right now, all three of our loans are in deferment because of our income. There is an income-based repayment plan, and so they all qualify for $0 payment.

So right now we're just working on our credit cards and his car. Yeah, but your point is by the time you get there, your question was four years from now, does he extend for one year because we will still have $30,000 in debt, a student loan debt at that point, making $33,000 a year, right? Yeah. And do we extend it one year to get $30,000 worth of student loans forgiven while you make $30,000?

Yes. We also did the math, and I think we can save about $40,000 when he gets over the course of that year. So we'd be able to pay off the other loan. How in the world could you save $40,000 if you make $33,000? With our tax return, and then he also had an enlistment bonus that's getting paid out at that point also. How big is the enlistment bonus?

He got $20,000 up front, and then he's getting the other $20,000 over the course of the next couple years. Okay, I'm so confused. None of that equals $40,000. $40,000. You're barely making it on $33,000. Do you work outside the home? No, I don't.

How many children do you all have? We have three. Okay. All right. Well, I'm not sure you did this right or you didn't explain it right or I didn't understand it right or something because the numbers don't add up to you're going to have $40,000 in savings. If you have $40,000 in savings, you would have been debt-free

because you wouldn't have saved the money. You would have paid it on the debt. Not this year. The year that he extends over the course of that year. Not in that year. You're not going to get $40,000 in that year because you're not going to make $40,000 of that year. Not in that year. You don't have $40,000. You're not going to get $40,000 in that year because you're not going to make $40,000 in that year. He should with his promotions.

Maybe I did the math wrong. I don't have the paper in front of me that has that. Okay. So, I mean, he doesn't make $33,000. He makes more than that? No, he does make $33,000. So you can't pay off 40 making you can't save 40 000 when you make 33 in one year kiddo right that's what i'm that's what i'm struggling with okay so what i wrote down um is that we get eight grand on the tax return and then his bonus

as well as saving and i guess it's a little over a year saving over a thousand dollars a month for 18 months when we'd be able to have that much to pay off that last loan okay so you can save a thousand dollars a month making 33 000 at that point yeah boy you are living on nothing three three kids and you're going to be living on under $20,000 a year. Have you got housing provided in this deal? We do, yeah. Okay, so that's helpful. All right, that makes the $33,000 more palatable.

Okay. Well, here's the thing. If you've still got debt when you get there and you can get an extra $30,000 over a normal $33,000 income for extending one year, it makes a lot of sense to extend one year. If you can pay off all the debt before you get there, then you don't even need to ask this question. You just need, the only question he needs to ask is, does he want to stay in the military the rest of his life? Is that his career field? And if it is, then that's fine.

You would renew. If it's not, then it's time to move on to civilian life. But, I mean, certainly either one's fine with me. Hey, we appreciate you calling, and we appreciate his service. Michael is with us in Kentucky. Hey, Michael, how are you? Better than I deserve. How are you, Dave?

Just the same, sir. How can I help? All right. Last September, we found out my wife was pregnant. So I sat down and started looking at our finances and realized something was going to have to change. Cool. We were about $45,000 in debt between credit cards and a car payment. But with a baby on the way, we decided to save money up to pay for the expenses that would come with having our first kid. At the beginning of the year, we decided that, you know, we had about 15,000. That should be enough with, you know, our family supporting us,

baby showers, the whole nine yards. After that, we, uh, and first of the year, we started with the snowball method, baby step number $2,000 in the bank, call nine yards. Since then, we've been able to pay off two credit cards and the car loan. What we're left with is $15,000 on a credit card. During the last two years, my dad and I have been working on a project truck that short,

long story short, I bought when I was in high school. It should be done this week, and now I'm kind of struggling with the idea of selling it and putting it towards the debt. What's it worth? It's only worth about $7,000. What do you make a year, household income? Our household income is about $115,000, but with her being off for a couple months this

year, it might dip to about 100, 105. Okay. And so the baby came in September? The baby came in June. We found out about her in September. Oh, I see. Okay.

So she's here. That's good news. And everybody's healthy and everybody's okay. Yeah, it was a fantastic experience. And how old are you guys? I'm 30 and my wife will be 28 next month. Okay. When you're 50 years old, you're going to be glad.

I said when you're 50. Oh, okay. You're going to be glad you kept this truck and worked your butt off and sold everything else in sight and paid that credit card off in a heartbeat, making $150,000. And so that's what I would do. It's not a big enough deal. It doesn't move the needle enough to clean up your mess when you have a big enough income

to clean up your mess really fast anyway. So just bear down on your budget and knock the rest of that debt out really fast so you don't have any shame in keeping the truck. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Folks, let's cut through the bull. Interest rates are exceptionally low, so you're missing out if you have not called Churchill Mortgage to see if you can save money on your home loan. Lots of other companies are out there claiming great deals, but don't get lured by slick advertisements. No-cost refinance offers do not mean they're free. Churchill Mortgage has a no-bull refinance. This means there are no hidden fees. They will shoot straight with you. Yes, Churchill

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761 Old Hickory Boulevard, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage jenny is with us. Hi, Jenny. How are you? Hi, Dave. Nice to meet you. Finally meet you. Well, it's a pleasure. Where do you live? Santa Ana, California. Oh, wonderful.

Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. And all the way across the United States to do your debt-free scream. Yes. Love it. How much have you paid off? Around $26,000 over nine months. Good for you.

And your range of income during that time? I was actually unemployed, and then I got a job. My base is $50,000, but with overtime, it's over $60,000. Good. What do you do for a living? I'm a quality lab technician. Oh, very cool. Okay.

How long were you unemployed? Over six months. Whoa. Okay. And the $26,000 in debt, what kind of debt was that? It was $14,000 in student loans that I had over 10 years. And the other $12,000 is my mom's car loan. Ah, okay.

So you cleared up both in nine months. Yes. Because you were kind of used to living on nothing. And so when you got a job, it could just all go to the debt, right? Well, before that, I was working all the time, but I was living paycheck to paycheck. I never had a budget. Everything I wanted, I just put it on the credit card for years. And from there, I was just really ashamed of myself. I was hiding my debt from everyone, my family, my significant other, friends.

I just felt a sense of shame and didn't feel like I was myself. I was really unhappy with myself. Sure. What happened? What turned the tables? Well, my mom was having health conditions, and I didn't even have money to help her out. And I felt really bad, just as a failure, that I couldn't do anything to help. And from there on, I just was really determined that I needed to do something to get out of this hole. Yeah.

To just, this is not who I wanted to be. Right. Yeah. Okay. And so what happened? Well, my mom, she was just really stressed and I didn't know how to help her. I was in the hole myself. She had financial issues herself. I think it's just something that growing up, we never had money.

She's a single mom. Sure. But what happened to you that caused you to turn it around? Well, just seeing her, I was determined to set a better example for my family to get out of that. Okay, cool. And what did you do? So I got a job. Okay.

Yeah, I got a job. But this time you didn't spend it all. No. No. I worked every day with my job. It's a 24-7 hour plant. So I was working a lot of overtime, six days a week. Good.

On average, more than 50 hours. And my longest streak was 19 days. Wow. Yeah. Okay, cool. And you just threw all the money at the debt? Pretty much everything. I lived at home.

My mom cooked my food. I packed my lunch every single day. I didn't go out to lunch. Did you finally come clean with her and tell her you had the debt and you're cleaning it up? Yes. I told my family. I told my friends. I told everyone.

Oh, okay. I wanted to be held accountable. Came out of the debt closet. Yes. All right. Yeah, definitely. I wanted to be held accountable. So I gave them progress every month. Hey, this is how much I paid off. came out of the debt closet yes all right yeah definitely i wanted to be held accountable so

i gave them progress every month hey you know this is how much i paid off and this is how long i plan to pay off everything so you turned all those people that you were trying to impress or ashamed about into cheerleaders yes they were very supportive i love it yeah that is so cool and how'd you get connected to us um i was just down on myself, and I wanted to hear stories that are similar to mine. So I searched on YouTube. Oh, there it is. Yeah. Lots of debt-free screams.

Yes, and I listened to your podcast every single day on my 40-minute commute to work and home. And then at night, I would listen to your youtube videos every night yeah wow and that gave you the instruction and the inspiration to do it yes all the baby steps i had my one thousand dollar emergency fund and i paid off my all my debt and now i actually have a six months emergency fund wow well that's a good use for YouTube. Yes. A lot better than cats chasing lasers. Good for you. I'm so proud of you. I bet your mom is so proud of you. Yeah, she really is. And I'm just so happy to be able to help her out with the remaining of her car loan. And just for all that she's done for me, I'm just, yeah.

You are a woman of honor. You are a person who honors a big deal to you, isn't it? Yeah. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Very, very well done. Very well done. You're in a position to help others, and you got yourself under control. No shame.

No condemnation. Well done. Very. How old are you? I'm 32. Well, cool. You're going to be all right. You're going to be an everyday millionaire.

Thank you. You are on your way. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's Everyday Millionaire book for you. And that is the next chapter in your story. This is just chapter one. There's a lot more chapters. Yeah. This is awesome.

I look forward to it. But now that you've got control and you know how to do it, this is amazing. So life is great. Wow. Way to go jenny way to go all right twenty six thousand dollars paid off in nine months making zero up to 50 up to 60 with ot worked her tail off ladies and gentlemen that's how she got out and threw it all at the debt and changed everything i love it count it down jenny from santa ana let's hear a debt-free scream three two one i'm debt-free yeah i love it that is how it's done right there ladies and gentlemen beautiful absolutely beautiful very very cool you know when you get sick and that's it i've had it that's when things change they don't change until

you have it and i have it at moment i can't have your i've had it moment for you and you don't have to be down and out you don't have to be broke you don't have to be laid off you don't have to have a health problem you can just go normal sucks i've had it i don't want to live like this anymore i've had it i've had it when you do that it changes everything you guys but until you get there you're going to do ish and you're going to look for a shortcut and you're going to try to figure out a way because you're soft and you're wussified and you're just going to and you're just going to limp along and you're you're going to suck it's just going to be bad but when you have that moment where you go, that's it, I've had it.

That's what Jenny had. You could tell by talking to her. She had gone to shame and the condemnation and not being able to do the stuff to help her mom. You know, she wasn't even concerned about herself. She just worried about what she couldn't do for somebody else, and that caused her to reach that moment where she looked in the mirror and she goes, I don't like you.

I've had it. You're changing. You're changing. Be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And then you will engage in this thing that just makes other people, it blows their mind. They can't understand, how did you become so disciplined? Where did the discipline come from?

The discipline's not like a magic thing you get in a jar. The discipline is because you've had it. I'm not living like this anymore. I don't like this, and I'm getting out. And I'm the one that's in control of me. The bad news is the problem with your money is in your mirror. The great news is the solution for your money is in your mirror. You get to decide, baby.

Just like her. Man, she's an inspiration. That's just wonderful right there. This is the Daveave ramsey show so If you're going to join this team, we want someone who cares and has a passion about what we do. That's why we trust LinkedIn Jobs. They are the best at matching the right person with the right job. We don't want someone just looking for a 9 to 5.

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want and get $50 off your first job post. Visit linkedin.com slash Ramsey. Terms and conditions apply. Joining me this half hour, number one best-selling author of the book Everyday Millionaires and retire-inspired two times number one, Ramsey personality Chris Hogan. Welcome back. Well, thank you, Dave. It's always good to be on with you. Absolutely. Let's talk to Jacob and see what Jacob's got to say. He's in Florida.

Hey, Jacob, your question for Chris and me. Hey, I'm calling to ask about kind of a good problem to have, but I don't know how to approach it. So I am estimated, based on my calculations, in the next nine months or at the end of nine months to make around $45,000 to $50,000, all saved up, no debt, no nothing. I'm kind of wondering what to do with that considering i want to go into law and that's just debt that i'm gonna have to incur and pay off over time but i'll get up until that point i'm sorry how old are you 19 okay so you're in college now yes and you want to go to law school. Yes. And you're going to have $45,000 towards that. Yes. Well, I'm actually asking, should I instead maybe invest it, like in a stock market or day trading,

or maybe go into real estate and retail, like rental management property, or should I just save it and hope for the best so I don't have to pay off that debt when it comes? Okay. While Dave is catching his breath, Jacob, because you said day trading. Now, I want you to listen to me, young man. You are a very intelligent young man. You don't accidentally get $45,000 to $50,000 saved up on accident, right? So you sacrificed for this, didn't you?

Yes. Okay. We're not going to vegas to spin the wheel to see if this all works out because yeah yeah so if you day trading that's exactly what it's tantamount to doing so we're not going to do that okay not doing that i don't like that idea at all so let me give you the numbers dude 78 that's all of – of day traders lose money in a calendar year. Yeah. I've heard the same statistics.

Yeah. So why would you even bring it up if you knew that statistic? Because you're not different. Don't be arrogant because arrogance is what happens right before you lose your $45,000. Quickly. Yeah. You're not the exception. You do not have the stock market beat at 19 years old.

I don't think I do. Then don't play in it. No. Okay. The mindset around this, listen, Jacob, with where you are, it's not an accident with what you've done. Love the idea of you thinking about law school and looking at this. What I want you to do is to a be prepared to use the money you have saved up toward law school. Okay. Okay. And I want you to hold on. Listen to me talk to you. You're going to get ready to use that money. And then I want you to start to apply for scholarships and get focused on this. And I

want you to make a decision, Jacob, because I remember I coached a guy that went through law school, $250,000 in law school loans, never took the bar. So I don't want you to be interested in law. I need you to be passionate about it before you pursue it. Okay? So I need you to make some decisions. Go sit down and talk to an attorney. Sit down and talk and understand the length of time it's going to take.

This is going to be an all-out effort, and you need to stay focused. But I like the habit you have of saving. Just hearing that story makes me want to end up in a bar. No, Dave, that was the truth. I mean, it was real. I know. He $250,000 in law school loans, never sat for the bar, decided to go a different route into social work. Jacob, I want you to take the intellectual energy that you have and the ability you have and apply it to go into the law school debt-free using your $45,000 and any other

money you can scrape together while you're still an undergrad. The best return on investment mathematically, superior to day trading, which that's a low bar. That's a squirrel bar. Squirrel can get over that bar. Superior to investing in real estate. Superior to investing in anything. The best investment, Jacob, you can make is in Jacob. The return on investment of you going to

law school debt-free and coming out and passing your bar and becoming an attorney. The increase in income you will have because you invested in you, because of that field of study, will allow you to make a lot more than you would have made on $45,000. I mean, think about it.

If you put $45,000 towards law school and you come out and you make X number of tens of thousands of dollars more than the average cat walking around, right? Or you make 10% on your $45,000, $4,500. Right. So the best investment a college student can make if they're in a quality field of study is in themselves to go through school debt-free. Hold on.

We're going to give you a copy of Anthony O'Neill's book, Debt-Free Degree. And yes, it does apply to law school. And no, don't make the assumption that law school always means debt we know lots of people that have gone through law school debt-free it is a hard trip but paying off a hundred grand is a hard trip too dude yeah it is and it don't get caught up in where you go to law school jacob that's another thing i want to tell you people will get riled up and caught up in Ivy League and all this other stuff.

Talk to over 10,000 millionaires. Okay, 62% of them went to public school. 9% went to community college. 8% didn't go at all. So you find a school you can pay cash for and get your law school degree, get out past the bar, and get out and help some people. I'm in four different situations right now inside this company with attorneys. A lawsuit, some trademark stuff, some other things that we're dealing with that we're getting advice on in the Securities and Exchange Commission. We're dealing with attorneys in four different situations. I'm paying out tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees as part of running a business this size.

I don't know where a single one of those lawyers went to school. Ah. You didn't ask for a diploma, Dave? I didn't ask. Oh. All I asked was, would you get them? That's all I want to know. Just get them.

What is that again? Get them. Get them. Yeah. I like it. That's it. That's my instructions to attorneys. Jacob, get them.

But I mean, you know, that's it. And if you can do that, I don't care if you went to YMCA night school, which, by the way, I know a really good attorney here in Nashville when he graduated from YMCA night school, became a judge. So that's a good attorney. I mean, it's just, but it's, you know, how smart are you? Can you apply yourself? Really cool, really cool thing, Jacob.

Thanks for calling in, man. So we're announcing today tickets go on sale. We just did the biggest smart conference we've ever done. 10,000 people in Sacramento. That was a cool event. It was an amazing event, Dave. And I'm going to tell you, I looked out there and I saw people of all ages and all stages at this event. I'm excited. Yeah. So we're going to Orlando, April the 4th. And drum roll, Orlando, here we come. The Spring Smart Conference, an amazing lineup, and this is really fun stuff. Yeah, Dr. Les Parrott, of course, will be with us. He's always there, a marriage and relationship expert.

Every single Smart Conference that we have ever done, Meg Meeker has been there. Yes. Every single one. And she always gets a standing O. She's an incredible communicator leading authority on parenting rachel cruz will be back from uh maternity leave new york times best-selling author will be speaking christy right back from maternity leave the creator of business boutique and uh man she is empowering ladies like nobody's business ken coleman of

course ramsey personality as well national radio host, number one bestselling author. All of these are number one. Every single one of these people have had a number one bestselling book. Anthony O'Neill was on Good Morning America this morning. That's pretty cool. That's fantastic. And Chris Hogan, of course, sitting beside me and me. So, listen, here's the deal.

Early bird general admission. You would pay twice this to hear one of these speakers, and you get the whole day to be smarter. $39. What? That's too cheap. That's not right. That's wrong. Fix that, Ramsey. Put a zero on it.

It'll be $390. Easily. Oh, well. We'll let them do it if that's what they want to do. You're the boss. Early bird. Well, I mean, I didn't write this this you're running things around here apparently i'm not all right 39 bucks early bird special go to davramsey.com or call the ramsey concierge team

at 888-22-PEACE 888-227-3223 uh there are just a these $39 tickets. They're kind of a thing where we just wet your whistle and make you wish you'd gotten one of them. That's right. So you need to get in there and get it real, real fast because that's a deal. What are they thinking? It's a super deal. And here's the thing. How many events can you have where you as parents can take your kids with you?

This is one of those events. Wow. And listen to this. The Smart Conference is in the Addition Financial Arena. Oh. We're going to break some rules. We're going to get them. Smart Conference, April 4th, Orlando. Tickets go on sale right now.

That was the official announcement. Don't miss out. This is the Daveave ramsey show our scripture today proverbs 16 3 commit your work to the lord and your plans will be established ronald reagan said there is no limit to the amount of good you can do if you don't care who gets the credit that quote's actually on the shelf in my office upstairs. I love it. Chris Hogan joins me this hour, Ramsey Personality. Serena is on the line with us in Washington.

Serena, your question for Chris and me. Hi. Hi, Dave. Hi, Chris. How are you guys? Great. How can we help? So I am 23, and I just switched jobs.

And so my husband and I have about $8,000 worth of debt while I'm baby step two. And the 401k people are kind of annoying me with what to do with the money. And would it be a good idea to take the money out of the 401k since it's a different company that my current job goes through and pay off the debt with it, or should I roll it over to something? I'm just not sure what to do with it. All right, Serena, you guys have obviously been very focused. Um, how much debt do you have left to pay off? Uh, $6,000.

He has about $5,000 on his car and I have, and we have $8,000 on a credit card. Okay. All right. And what's your household income, young lady? It's about $60,000. I make about $30,000, and he's an apprentice for an electrician, so he makes about $40,000. Okay. So obviously you guys have been intentional. You've been putting some money away.

Here's what I don't want you to do. I don't want you to steal from your future to clean up your now. Okay. And so that's the mindset. That's what you're asking. Should we take money out of the 401k to attack this debt? No, because compound interest is what helps money to grow. I want you to be a money farmer. I talk about that in my first book, Retire Inspired. I want you to grow money, young lady. And so don't do that. Don't steal from your future. This money you have in a 401k right now has an opportunity to grow. So what I would do is roll it over into an IRA.

Don't cash it out. Rolling it over means you're not touching it, so you don't tap Uncle Sam on the shoulder. You don't cause any taxes to happen, and that money keeps growing. But I do want you all to tighten down your budget and delete this debt. This is something you can pay off in the next six months. Yeah. So, Serena, you guys are in a 22% tax bracket. If you pull the money out, you'll be charged that plus a 10% penalty. That's 32%. It's kind of like saying, Dave, I want to borrow money at 32% to pay off my debt. You would never do that. Right. That's a crazy number. That's a great way to look at it. So you just roll it over to, roll it over like Chris suggested, a direct

transfer rollover. Just click smart investor at DaveRamsey.com. One of those folks will sit down with you. We're not in the investing business, but that's who we recommend, and they'll help you get that rollover done. And then when you finish getting out of debt, you'll be able to continue your investing, and you'll have that as a jump start as well tim's in missouri hey tim welcome to the dave ramsey show hey thanks guys i am a nervous wreck guys but chris is intimidating man i just finished uh teaching uh fdu and um i we my wife and I we've been married eight months we're totally out of debt fully funded we've been through all the baby steps we were actually out of debt before we got married we both owned our own houses

outright and you let us see you thank you I just finished up last week okay and I think our deal I I just found out about the retirement IQ with Chris, and while I was sitting there watching the video, while the people were watching the video, I looked at my RRQ, and I'm so excited about helping these people get out of debt and all that kind of stuff. I don't know whether they're about to cry because I don't have enough retirement. I mean, my wife and I are completely paid.

Everything's paid, fully funded. I've got a quarter million dollars in the bank. We're wanting to build a new house. But I don't have enough retirement. How much do you have in retirement? I have a week together, but I have about 70 together. And how old are you? And one of them, we're 50.

I'm 53, and she's 51. And what's your household income? $70,000. Okay. So you save 15%. I'm 53, and she's 51. And what's your household income? $70,000. Okay. So you save 15%. The RRQs. I'm sorry. The RRQs saying you need to save how much?

$1,500 a month. And we've got in our budget $1,000 a month. I think we bumped it up the other day trying to get to $1,200. Good. Okay. And how much did you put in, Tim, that you said you wanted to live on per month? I think $4,000. Okay.

And the reason I ask that because- But I've got, I think I said $2,000 because I've got a retirement at my work that says I'm going to get about $2,000 on that. All right. So let's talk about this for a minute you're completely out of debt you guys have a fully funded emergency fund and you said you and your wife both had houses before you got married right were those houses paid for or did you have mortgages on them totally paid for totally you have two paid for homes and did i we live we live in and we got married eight months ago and we're living in the house that she owned

and i sold mine and i have the money in the bank because we're living in the house that she owned, and I sold mine. Okay. And I have the money in the bank because we're planning on building a new house. Okay. Why? Um, a nicer house. Uh-huh. A new house.

How many of you are in the family? There's three of us at the house. Okay. And how much square footage do you live in right now? Uh, 1,700. Okay. And the house you want do you live in right now? 1,700. Okay. And the house you want to build is going to be how big? Oh, my God. My wife's listening right now.

Mm-hmm. 3,500. Okay. You don't sound that big to me. And I know she's not either. So here's what we got to do. I am actually. No, you're not. Listen to me. Listen to me. What you guys need to do is start to take a bigger picture. I want you to make two-year decisions.

I want you to make a decision now you look back on in two years and you're glad you made it. See, just because you can doesn't mean you should. So building a new house may not be on the horizon. It might be more about investing that money for your future. Now, I'm just laying out options. You're going to make decisions. But if I hear that stress in your voice, the last thing I'm going to do is move out of a paid-for home to take on a mortgage. It's just not going to happen, Dave. If you sell your house and the money you got in the

bank, you pay cash for it, right? I've already sold my house. Yeah, and if you sold the house you're living in, you'd have the money to pay cash for the build, right? Absolutely. Okay. So here's the thing. I think what you know is that you probably do in, you'd have the money to pay cash for the build, right? Absolutely, yes. So here's the thing. I think what you know is that you probably do build a house, but maybe not a 3,500-square-footer. Well, what we want to know is do we save the house that we're living in and use it for a rental? Would you have enough of the cash you have to pay cash for the new build if you scaled it down? Not if we don't sell the house, no. If you scale it down?

Oh, yeah, that's a possibility. Yeah, so maybe you can do that, and then you'd have a rental, and you'd have a paid-for newer house that's a little bit bigger and brand new, and then you just save like crazy into retirement, and I think you're going to be fine. That sets you up to win. I mean, you'd be able to do all. But the 3,500-square-foot house is basically you're putting all your eggs in that basket yeah and um you know you're you're you probably need to put some of this money towards investment maybe not all of it uh chris's joke about whether you take up square footage aside but you know

70 hour square foot house is a small house So moving up in house is not a bad thing. Dave, there's three of them. I know, but there's not. Just renovate a room. Go to a room and pay cash. Renovate the bathroom. It'll be new to them. Stay focused.

Not finish, people. There you go. There you go. That's fun. I love it. The average home in America right now is 2,200 feet, just to let everybody know. That's the national average of the square foot of housing. And what's interesting is in 1960, it was 1,100.

Wow. The house I grew up in was 1,100 feet. So it's doubled. It's doubled. And, you know, what we used to call middle class when we were growing up, we called rich. Or what we call middle class now. Right. middle class when we were growing up we called rich or what we call middle class now right what it would you know middle class people when i was growing up never bought new cars ever it was you

know maybe a chevrolet truck or something but i mean it was it was the new cars on my street when i was growing up there weren't any nobody's driving brand new car unless it was a company car and they'd gone to work for somebody had a company car so it's just changed on what you define as middle class and the square footage is part of that so that you know it is a smaller than average home um and he's got the money to move up a little bit and and still be able to do some investing and still get there so but but it's still fun to think about it's's a great, it's a great analogy to go, you know, the bottom line is, is this is a, what you're pointing out with the, you don't take up much room. That's funny by the way. But what you're pointing out is, is that it's a want, not a need. It's a want, not a need. And so if you're nervous about your

retirement, that you don't buy wants, not needs. There you go. And that's your point. So good stuff. You were more eloquent than I. Well, we have to swap off on the other one you were. Chris Hogan's hanging out with us. Appreciate you dropping by. Thank you, my friend. What's this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books? We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.