The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Get Happiness and Fun Confused (Hour 2)

Episode Date: September 25, 2019

Max Lucado, Debt, Home Buying   Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: http://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: http://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: http://bit.ly/2QEyonc Interview Guide: http://bit.ly/2BuGnZE Check out other podcasts in the Ramsey Network: http://bit.ly/2JgzaQR 

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Jerry is on the line in New York.

Hi, Jerry. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. I would ask how you're doing, but I think I know the answers to that already. Some things are predictable. So I'll get straight to the point. I'm 23. I just got married three months ago.

Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. I have $120,000 in savings right now in mutual funds. Me and my wife together, we have household income of around $200,000 to $250,000. And we have $98,000 in student loan debts under the name of my wife. I'm wondering if I should pay that down immediately, if I should refinance, or if I should continue investing in the mutual funds and hopefully make the spread on the interest rate and whatever I'm getting on the mutual funds.

Okay, cool. You guys are making a lot of money for 23 years old. What do you all do for a living? We're both in finance. Well done. Very well done. Thanks. Okay.

So you're academically trained in the world of finance? I'm not. My wife is. I studied computer science and economics, but more or less, yes. All right. When you're analyzing an investment and you're comparing a risky investment with a non-risk investment, do you remember the statistical measure of risk being called a beta does that sound familiar yeah yes that does okay so the higher the peaks and valleys

on the graph the higher the beta means higher risk it's volatile correct correct okay to compare debt with a mutual fund and the returns on a mutual fund are not guaranteed. The debt is guaranteed to drain the marrow out of your bones over time. And to compare those two things, apples to apples, and not adjust for risk using the beta would be a naive financial formula. However, no one teaches this in finance, by the way. I'm the only ones who ever brought this up. Bottom line is that you are taking on risk

that when you mathematically adjust for the risk, because you're carrying the debt, the debt equals risk, and when you mathematically adjust for the risk, the spread you're making on it in the mutual funds goes away an example of why this why you wouldn't do this is like this sounds like this um you've got a hundred thousand dollars in a mutual fund or you got a hundred thousand dollars in a student loan what if we said you can borrow 10 million dollars more on mutual on the exact same student loans and you have to put it all in mutual funds all of a sudden when i say that something happened not in your head but right below your

rib cage above the top of your stomach and you went gulp right yeah yeah yeah and so that that's where you measure risk is right around the area of your heart your heart is risk measures your head does math and so my point is it's not a big deal because you guys make a lot of money you're two very smart young people you're probably not going to go bankrupt over this you're not going to be you're not going to have your financial growth stunted over this and so more than anything anything, it's almost a mathematical, philosophical discussion here that we're having because it's not going to kill you. But the way I answer questions on this show, knowing what I know from an academic viewpoint,

a spiritual viewpoint, a relational viewpoint, a behavior standpoint, and a wealth-building viewpoint, from 30 years of doing this, what would i do if i woke up in your shoes i would have that stupid student loan paid off before the business is closed today i'd be done yeah and then i would take your fabulous income go about your fabulous income and get about the business of building wealth because if you got nothing hanging over your head you don't have a knife hanging over the top of your head on a thread that's bare. You don't have any risk. It's going to change the way you look at each other.

Also, she brought the student loans into your brand-new, baby, tiny, little, naive little marriage. And it's sweet, but it's going to affect things. But if it's gone, it's in the rearview mirror and it doesn't affect anything and she doesn't feel guilty for weighing you down and you don't have to try to convince her that it's no big deal because it is no big deal to you you're a math guy but there's this thing of oh he came in with no student loans and i came in with a hundred thousand dollars of student loans and he's got 125 000 in debt for richer for in sickness and health, and all my worldly goods, I pledge to you. These are the old marriage vows.

Write a check today and pay it off. Clean up your life, sir. Thank you for calling in. Matt is with us in Florida. Matt is in, how are you, Matt? Great, great. So to refinance or not refinance? What's your interest rate?

Okay, so currently 4.8, and then it would go to 3.6. Okay, so you would save 1.2 on what's your balance? The balance right now is 445. Okay, so you would save $4,800 a year. Yeah, they said about $300 a month. More than that. You'd save about $4,800. You'd save $300 a month on the payment.

But the actual interest rate is 1.2 times 400. Got it. Okay. One percent of, it's $1,200 per 100,000, so that would be 400, four of those would be 4,800 bucks is what you're saving per year. What's your closing costs? We've come up to about 11,000. Okay. Divided by 4,800 tells us it takes a touch over two years to break even.

Are you going to keep the house? We are going to keep the house, pay it off, raise the kids here. Love it. Love it. What's your household income? $250. Excellent. Well, raise the kids here. Love it. Love it. What's your household income? $250,000. Excellent. Well, yes, I would refinance this.

Okay. And I would do it only on a 15-year or less fixed rate. No exceptions. No arguments. No discussion. 15-year fixed rate or less, but you're saving $4,800 a year. You're paying $11,000 for the privilege, so it takes you two years and some change before you're still getting gravy on the biscuit.

But after that, you're making $5,000 a year until you pay off the mortgage. And if you're going to pay off the house in three years, then don't do this. It's not worth screwing with because the difference is not going to be worth having gone through all this hassle. But basically, you're saving $5,000 a year. You're paying $11,000 for the right. That's what we're doing. So you get your money back after two years and some change and after that. So if you're going to keep it seven years, you're going to make $35,000 by doing this.

Save $35,000 by doing this. So it's definitely worth doing. And this, folks, by the way, the question he's answering is a big deal question if you're sitting there with a five percent mortgage i know if you're old like me and you saw 12 and 13 and 17 mortgages and you're old like me you don't think five percent's a bad deal five percent's not a bad deal unless you can get three and if you can get three then all of a sudden five's a bad deal, baby. Get in touch with Churchill Mortgage and get your refinance done. You do not refinance to move from a 30 to a 15. You do refinance if you can recoup your closing costs quickly with the interest saved

and then put some gravy on the biscuit after that. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major health care costs. Christian Health Care Ministries is the original health cost-sharing ministry. A Better Business Bureau-accredited organization, CHM members share to pay each other's medical bills. It's not insurance.

It's Christians financially and spiritually supporting each other. It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years. And our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. it sounds terribly inappropriate to some of you people but one of the reasons if i wasn't me i'd want be me, is the people that I get to meet. I get to meet some of the coolest people and become friends with some of the coolest, smartest people on the planet. And my good friend, Pastor Max Licato joins me.

He's definitely in that category. Welcome, Max. Thank you, Dave. Ben, I can say the same. Being here today is just, you know, you always encourage your team to say, wow. I can't stop saying, wow. You don't have to even ask me to say it. It's everywhere.

The new facility, the team. I'm so impressed with how bright and energetic everyone is. They are. Can I get a job here? Absolutely. Where can I fill out an application? We'll just sit you right here every day, and you can disperse wisdom right here on this microphone. No one in America would argue that that was a bad idea.

So, excellent. And Max did our devotional for our team this morning, and so our team gets to hear one of the most prized communicators, one of the wisest communicators on the planet. 120 million books sold every major media outlet has had max on at one time or another or three times or another and uh he has a new book out called how happiness happens now if you've not read max locato you need to start immediately you will be encouraged you will be lifted uh it will clean your brain out if you've been watching the news

because you need your brain cleaned out if you've been watching the news and um what what happens is max is one of the leading communicators from the pulpit in the nation san antonio texas and um oak hills church christ there for years since back in the 80s and uh occasionally one of those messages just lights you up and you turn it into a book. And this is yet another bestseller. How happiness happens. Why is happiness so hard to find today? It is in short supply. Only one in three Americans say they're happy.

So that's an unhappy number. I think it has something to do with this. I'm fascinated, and I'd love your thoughts on this. I think this advertising deluge under which we live, that I was a marketing major in college. People think I was a – I did go to seminary, but before that I was a marketing major. And the rule of thumb in advertising is convince people they need something so they'll buy something. Right? It's just that simple and so

now we live in this uh super sophisticated deeply funded highly motivated super educated uh society that says convince locato he's deficient so he'll spend more money and consequently uh everybody's telling me i'm unhappy so you if you don't make a deliberate decision to go against that to be the the salmon who swims against that tide you can get sucked under into this tide of unhappiness pretty quickly rachel cruz my daughter that did the number one best-selling book um love your life not there's the whole game of comparison talks about that because that's what social media the latest latest form of marketing, is doing. And you and I are both great marketers.

We both like selling good products. There's nothing wrong with that. But this idea that we are impacted by more marketing messages in a given day right now than in the 1960s you would have been in a year. That's amazing. And the whole process of it, and you learned it in marketing, I did too, is to create cognitive dissonance, to create a disturbance in your psyche that says I'm incomplete unless I have that item or that experience that I've got to pay them money for. And it works for a while, right?

I mean, this is not only marketing. I'll be happy when I get that new car. Yeah. This is not only marketing 101. It's pastoral care 101 they taught us that this is going on and that people in in the in the church pew are unhappy because they tried it and it didn't work and then they tried it and they didn't work and they tried and what eventually happens or what often happens is there's this downward cycle that leads to a deep sense of either anger that the world has led me on and not delivered,

or a sense of terrible insecurity. Everybody's happy but me. It must be my fault. And neither one of those are healthy. That's true. I mean, I think of Ecclesiastes, Solomon. I mean, it's like his worst day. He wrote this book.

It's like all is vanity. And this book it's like all is vanity yeah and that's where you reach all is vanity if you buy the car you know i always tell people get you some money money's good but if you eat enough lobster it tastes like soap i mean it's it's just there's only you you reach a satiation point you do with the collection of items or experiences that it's just like drugs or just like alcohol you reach a satiation point that it no longer does anything for you. You don't get the buzz. You don't get the buzz. And if you're looking for the buzz, it ain't going to stick long.

Yeah. Yeah. Because it's not real happiness. Not real happiness. What happens there, I think, is, and we talk about this sometimes, is that we get happiness and fun confused. You can buy fun, but you really can't buy happiness. The illusion of happiness is fun. The short-term happiness is the buzz.

Yeah. And it goes away pretty quick. So can someone honestly and truly be happy when they're having a hard time? Oh, yes. Okay, so let's see if we can kind of land at a good working definition of happiness. I think it's a deeply rooted sense of contentment that does not depend upon circumstance. It's kind of a deeply rooted, in other words, when the storm comes, it'll tilt, but it won't uproot. There's a peace. There's a peace.

And it doesn't depend upon the circumstance. Because the truth of the matter is, many of the listeners today, it's not for lack of a new car, it's not for lack of a new car. It's not for lack of a new pair of shoes. It's for lack of health. I mean, they're facing a real crisis of health. And that's really taking their happiness away. The continual discontentment does.

It wears on you physically. It does. Because it does the same thing your body anxiety does. It does. That's a great observation. It wears on your – I strongly believe that God made us to be happy. Now, he didn't make us to be giggly and in a happy, cheer-free mood all the time. But there's over – there's about 2,700 references in the Bible to everything from happiness to merriment to cheer to joy to celebration.

Happiness is a big deal. And it's because we're healthier when we're happy. Our marriages are healthier when we're happy. Dave, we make more money when we're happy. Well, you're attractive. You're attractive. You're contagious. You're easily promoted.

You're promotable. You're attractive. You're contagious. You're easily promoted. You're promotable. You're a team player. Teams are more successful when they're made up of happy teams. And so it's there's a real win win in this discussion about happiness. There's a piece of it that's contentment, a piece of it that's joy, a piece of it that's peace. Yeah. Kind of stirred together in there the new book is how happiness happens by new york times best-selling author multiple times uh pastor max lakedo one of the

best-selling authors of our day um especially in the pastoral or self-improvement space of any kind there's nobody else out there has moved as many uh books helping people and all of his books are helpful how happiness happens is definitely helpful so the new book has an entire um let's go back one of the things you were talking about this morning that i got so encouraged with was encouragement encouraged by encouragement. There's a part of the happiness equation that has something to do with encouragement. It has everything to do with it. So the big idea is that happiness happens

when we make other people happy. It's that simple. Jesus said it's more blessed to give than receive. So we really can be happier tomorrow, but we need to go through the side door instead of the front door. The front door the front door says acquire uh accumulate and think that's going to make you happy like like you often say

i say it too it's all right i'm i'm all for having a nice car i'm all for having a nice house just don't just just don't think it's going to deliver what you think it's going to the side door says if you want to really discover a lasting happiness then then make other people happy be generous be kind practice the the one another verses in the bible and one of those is encourage one another become a master encourager yeah i had a repairman up at the house the other day and he was saying yeah this is this is a nice home i said yeah god's been good to us but i got to tell you man the more stuff you own the more repairmen you have to know. So that's the way it works. Max Licato is with us in one more segment. We're going to keep talking about this subject because it is so germane to you winning

with money, to you winning in your life. How happiness happens. Find lasting joy in a world of comparison, disappointment, and unmet expectations. Back with Max Licato. Pastor Max Licato, my good friend, joins us for a couple of segments. How Happiness Happens is the new book. How Happiness Happens. You need to pick it up where great books are sold. Finding lasting joy in a world of comparison, disappointment, and unmet expectations.

So you were talking about encouragement and the one another phrases in the scriptures. There's 59 of them in all, and I just chose 10. In fact, I clustered a lot of the others under those 10 because nobody wants a 59-chapter book. That doesn't make anybody happy not even the publisher publisher so yeah so the big idea is is there's so many things in life we cannot control but we can control the way we treat people and the way we treat people has a boomerang effect because as we try to make other people happy or serve other people

happy, and that's your philosophy here. I mean, you know, the signs up on the wall that say we're here because of the people outside of this building. I mean, that's all about service. That's all about putting other people first. And the result of that is a sense of well-being and contentment that doesn't come from anything you can own or drive or purchase so the the paradox is that selfishness being being focused on self does not bring happiness being focused

on others creates happiness guarantees it it's a paradox yeah jesus said it's more blessed to give than receive and we've all heard that we've all heard it all heard it. But do we put it into practice? But it is. It's counterintuitive. It's counterintuitive. But we've experienced it. Now, research is bearing this out all the time. One of my favorite little pieces of research that I stumbled across and I put in the book is this ability that exists today to measure the activity centers of the brain. And there's something called the pleasure center.

And it's activated by a great meal, great trips, great sex. It's everything that brings us pleasure. Well, while measuring the MRI, while MRIing people's brains, they were asking people to envision doing something good for somebody else. Just envision it, not even do it. Of course, they couldn't. They were strapped down to a machine. But just imagine doing it. And when they did, the phrase in the report said, the pleasure center lit up like Christmas trees.

Just the thought of doing good things causes us to have others good for others yes sir for others and uh and and and we're wired that way we're wired to to to help it we're we really make other people happy and make ourselves happy as a result sometimes i think one of the most toxic and misunderstood and misapplied phrases in our Christian faith is forgiveness. And forgiveness is carte blanche in ways that are, they confuse it with reconciliation, that someone rapes you, you should immediately get married to them. I mean, that's a toxic.

We're not talking about that when we're talking about healthy forgiveness. But forgiveness and happiness, you mentioned in here, they're intertwined. They are. They are. Again, it's a biblical principle. It's a research principle. Duke University listed eight characteristics of hate of happy people four of those characteristics are the ability to move on after being hurt

or choosing not to harbor a grudge but we all know that intuitively you know nobody is a happier person when they're angry and nobody comes up and says could you be angry today because it makes me feel good so we we know that but you're right i think part of the problem is understanding what happiness is what forgiveness is forgiveness is not endorsing someone's mistakes or overlooking someone's mistakes forgiveness is a decision to move on with life anyway anyway yeah move on with life anyway it really comes down to that not not letting them hold on to you any longer and sometimes that includes a type of reconciliation but dave it may not you know the bible says as much as is possible with you be at peace with everybody you can do very best, but if a person doesn't want to talk to you or reconcile, you've got to move on. And that's every bit as much a forgiveness as the couple I talked to about two weeks ago who were divorced from each other for three years and then they remarried.

And so that's a beautiful story, too. But you can't control whether that part happens or not. One of the pictures that you give to help us with that is conducting a funeral. Yeah. Talk about that. Yeah. I think this is a practical idea. It's a little on the edge.

But, you know, for somebody who's really trying to move on after they've been hurt after they have uh identified what it is that hurts them after they have talked to jesus about it after they have uh if possible or advisable visited with the offender now that that could require some nuances you have to have some wisdom You have to have some wisdom and some counsel. But if advisable, do it. After you've tried and begun praying for your offender, so those are the steps that I encourage. Then there's one more I always tag on, and that is why don't you just conduct a funeral? I got this idea from a gentleman who came to see me, and it's a bit of a complex story I won't go into but his wife had been uh laid off from work

by an overbearing um executive uh and this husband was so angry he was so angry well eventually the executive kind of came to his senses asked for forgiveness gave the the wife a job back again but the husband was still angry you know his wife had been hurt in the process understandably so but he was ready to move on so he came to me as as a pastor and he had written a letter and he had a box of matches dave i thought what is this guy going to do he's got a box of matches in a letter he asked for my trash can he said this is the letter of hatred i wrote to that executive i want to burn it in your presence and that that's probably been 20 25 years ago and ever since then i've urged people i said why don't you create a moment in which you just kind of publicly say okay i'm moving on he burned the letter and and moved on and and i urge people take that offense write it on a a sheet of paper, put it in a shoebox, go out in the backyard, dig a grave, and conduct a funeral.

Say, let's move on with life. There's a reason. The windshield's bigger than the rearview mirror. That's because our future's more important than our past. Here lays my anger. Yes, sir. Here lays my anger. Buried.

Put to rest. Buried to deep. R.I.P. So towards the end of the book, you come up with the idea to challenge us with the happiness challenge. Yeah. So, you know, we all have ideas on how long it takes to create new habits. Forty days is a pretty good number. So I urge people to take 40 days and try to make 100 people happy over 40 days. In other words, take these one another verses or take your own list, but these one another

verses are a good list and put them to use over 40 days. There's 10 of them. So you can do one every four days. Yeah. Yeah. Just, for example, greet one another. Make tomorrow the day that you intentionally greet three or four people that you typically don't. At a grocery store, a receptionist, or a co-worker.

And just, you don't have to start an in-depth conversation, but just, hello. It's good to see you. It's been a while since I said hello. Are you doing well? And just greet them. It's impressive to me how much the Bible talks about greeting one another. Because a genuine greeting is an act of respect. And when you respect somebody, you greet them.

So you could start right there. And who knows how many smiles you would put on people's faces. You're acknowledging the presence of someone in a culture who walks past people as if they're not there. As if they're not there. Or because they've got their nose in a phone and they're not looking. Don't get me started. While you're supposed to be driving. Yeah.

Okay. The book is How Happiness Happens. Pastor Max Licato is the author. Dave, you know you're my hero, right? You're my hero. Oh, no. It's a mutual admiration society around here, brother. You're the best.

You're just the best. Thank you. Life is good when Max stops in the house. Thank you. Appreciate you. Well, no. It's a mutual admiration society around here, brother. You're the best. You're just the best. Thank you. Life is good when Max stops in the house. Thank you. We appreciate you being here, brother. Anytime we can help you, you know we're here. I know it. Thank you.

You guys pick this book up, How Happiness Happens. We need more of this and less of some of the other stuff. Max Licato. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage. Stacey's with us. Hey, Stacey, what's up? I'm doing great. What's up with you?

I am honored to have you on my show today. So, where do you live? I live in Sevierville, Tennessee, which is just right outside of Knoxville for you all not from Tennessee. Yeah, you ought to know that. That's right. Go Vols. There you go. Something needs to happen. I love it. Well, welcome, welcome. I was born in Maryville. Oh, you ought to know that. Go Vols. There you go. Something needs to happen. I love

it. Well, welcome, welcome. I was born in Maryville. Oh, really? Right around the corner from you. Yeah, so we're neighbors. That's it. Just like that. I love it. The best kind of folk come from there. So how much debt have you paid off, Stacey? I paid off $54,000 in debt. And then in that amount of time, three years and eight months, I also cash flowed about $20,000 of other things that would have become debt had I not been on this great program. Such as? I had some car issues. I am known for driving beaters, but I was the queen of the beaters during this time. I bought a Honda Pilot.

Well, I had a Honda Civic that I love. I put 327,000 miles on it before I got rid of it. Then I bought a Honda Pilot. I'm faithful to Honda. And it had about 300,000 miles when I got rid of it. And then I bought a little truck, and I have a Volkswagen Beetle that I finally paid $5,000 for so I could. Major upgrade. Yes.

I mean, am I in a spaceship or what? I have an auxiliary port. Hands-free Tennessee. There you go. I mean, am I in a spaceship or what? I have an auxiliary port. Hands-free Tennessee. There you go. I love it. So $54,000 in debt. What kind of debt? Well, $25,000 of it was student loans. I have all the degrees that Tennessee Tech offers and an associate from Run State Community College. But after I started my job, I worked for East Tennessee State University as an associate professor. I just decided that I needed to, I had started looking at debt. And then

the perfect storm kind of happened in 2015. My mom had to file for bankruptcy. My dad had filed when I was younger. So I knew statistically that I was more likely to follow in their footsteps if I didn't get a plan. My dad had started listening to your program, and he's a big fan. So I knew where to find the information, and so I just started following that. Also, during that time, I was dating a guy that had two teenage daughters, and I was really thinking about what kind of example did I want to leave for them, and it wasn't somebody with 14 maxed out credit cards. I hear you. Very good. And then last summer, I taught summer school. I taught a couple of summer school classes, and I was up to $71,000 during that time. So you're currently a professor?

Yes. And you teach what? I teach in the College of Education. I teach literacy courses for our K-5 future teachers on our Sevierville campus of ETSU. Oh, I didn't know they had a Sevierville campus. Yeah, we've only been open a couple of years, but we're really growing down there. Excellent. Very cool.

Good for you. Thank you. Good for you. So you kind of looked up and said, the family tree needs to change. Right. As far as the money part goes. And I need to be a better example. Right.

And so you did it. Yes, I did. You did it. You paid off $54,000 and cash flowed 20 on top of that. So $74,000 in three years and eight months. So about $25,000 a year during that time, which is about half your income through most of that. It's hard to believe. Pretty incredible.

You've lived on nothing. Yeah. Well, I can't say that I always made the perfect decisions, but I really strove for that because I'm single, and I just kept thinking a single woman can do this plan. I know she can. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you don't have anybody to try to talk into it except you. That's right. I get to do what I want.

You've got to talk yourself into it every morning, but there's nobody else you have to keep cracking the whip on or anything. That's why the budget was so important during this process because I made a contract with myself every month when I wrote out that budget. And, you know, once I hit baby step three, sometimes I think, oh, do I have room for that? And you still have to stay very committed to getting that money in there. I can't go back to being spender Stacy, although that was sometimes fun. Well, it is fun. I'll get there one one day it is fun in the moment but the long-term pain that it brings is not worth the trade-off right that's the problem so very very well done excellent excellent job very proud of you so good good job so uh you tell people the key to getting out of debt one of them's the budget

because that kept you that's your contract with yourself. I like that phrase. That's a good phrase. Well, thank you. And what else do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Just remembering that you can do it and every day another day passes and you're one day closer to being out of debt. I mean, that's what I kept telling myself. That's how I approached when I was doing my doctorate, and that's how I approached doing this. I knew it was just going to happen one day, and I just had to remain faithful to the wonderful program that you have designed that helped me change my life.

Way to go. Very, very proud of you. Thanks, Donald Miller, for that phrase. Yeah, that's good. I became my own hero. That's good. Well, you are. You are. You're definitely a hero. Now, that's good. I became my own hero. That's good. Well, you are. You are.

You're definitely a hero. Now, who were your biggest cheerleaders? I had a lot of people that were cheerleaders. When you're so passionate about something, you're not going to have a lot of detractors, or that was my experience. I can't say that everybody would have that, but I had some really great coworkers who also followed the plan, and they got out before I did, out of debt before I did, but they were really good cheerleaders and I knew if they could do it that I could also

do it and we just encouraged each other. I would also talk to my students about the journey that I was on because where I taught public school and I thought that my retirement plan could be my future husband, that wasn't a good plan. So I try to teach my students that they need their own plan. Amen. Amen. That's well said. Very cool.

Well, Stacey, you're fine. You're fine. And congratulations again. We're really, really proud of you. Go ahead. I forgot to say, the reason I'm wearing a Slash shirt today is in that perfect storm of 2015, I had this ticket to see Slash play in Chicago, and I didn't have enough money on all my maxed out credit cards to afford one more night.

I was in a conference up in Chicago. I didn't have enough money on my maxed out credit cards to pay off one night to go see Slash in Chicago. So I kept this ticket, and about six weeks ago i saw him at the ramen oh i bookend it wow that's cool so that's why i'm in casual clothes today that's perfect no i think that's a great story that's very important stuff very well done so back let me backtrack a second yeah so when you first got connected to us how did you get connected to us well originally my dad liked um your books and your program so i'm embarrassed to say it i i mean i'm not embarrassed to say i had this but even back in 1996 i had financial peace on a cassette tape and i listened to it and why didn't i apply that to my life in 96 yeah but that's the original

way i got connected but i always knew and would listen to. So when you renewed the journey, though, three years and eight months ago, did you connect at that point? Yes, I reconnected and I went to Financial Peace University. I'm glad you asked that question. I went to Financial Peace University every year. I bought the program. I would go every year during my debt free journey. I had a really great mentor that is a master coach in Jefferson City, Tennessee, named Barbie Dyer, so shout out to her. And she just really helped me get reconnected and get on fire for getting out of debt and living like no one else so I can live and give like no one else.

Got a feeling there's no stopping you at anything. Well done. I hope not. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. That'll be the next chapter in your ongoing wonderful story. You're fun. Thank you for being with us. Very well done.

Stacy from Knoxville, Tennessee, Sevierville, Tennessee. Let's just be straight here. $54,000 paid off plus $20,000 cash flowed otherwise. In three years and eight months, making $52,000 to $71,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free.

Love it. Love it. Love it! Well done, y'all. Yes! Man, that's amazing. Beautiful job. Well done. See, the deal is this.

The number of times that I hear that the total money makeover or financial peace was a coaster on your coffee table for a decade before you picked it up with the coffee stains on it and actually read the book. But when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. Life is good. You can too. When are you going to do this? Yeah, I'm talking to you.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Once again, you made The Dave Ramsey Show one of the top five most downloaded podcasts last year. To get your daily dose of motivation and inspiration, subscribe today.