The Ramsey Show - App - Don’t Give Yourself an Excuse To Go Into Debt (Hour 1)

Episode Date: June 6, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions in Nashville, Tennessee, it's the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshaw, and we're talking about building wealth, your workplace, people you love, people you're in relationship with, your in-laws, all of it. 888-825-5225. We're taking your calls live. It's 888-825-5225.

I'm John. This is Jade. And we are ready to rock and roll. Let's go out to Madison, Wisconsin and talk to Kathleen. What's up, Kathleen? Hi there. How are you doing?

Thanks for taking my call. Of course. Thanks for calling in. What's up? Well, I was just calling my student. I have two children. They just both recently graduated from college. Both have significant debt, student loan debt.

These are Parent PLUS loans, by the way, for a total of $400,000 with both of them. And they're not able to make their minimum wage or their minimum payment, so I'm picking up the slack. And also I have other financial, you know, concerns as well. Why did you sign for a Parent PLUS loan? Because when you go to college, that's what they tell you to do. Okay. So what does it look like, you picking up the slack? What does that mean?

So the loans are split into two different, my sons and my daughters. My daughter owes probably around $300,000. Is he a doctor? No, they're both engineers. And they both have jobs now, and they both make pretty decent money for being right out of college. What do they make? What does that mean? My daughter makes about $60,000. My son makes about $55,000 a year.

That's not a good job for an engineer who owes $300,000. Right. Are they single? Do they have families? They are both single. Okay. My son does live with his girlfriend, and she's also an engineer. But I am picking up.

My daughter does live at home with us, my husband and I, and she's paying as much as she can out of her paycheck, you know, every month. Her loan is probably around $4,500 a month, and she probably pays about $4,000, and I pick up the other $500. My goodness. my son actually just got a job in April so he had been a year out of school without he was working for my husband who is he's self-employed but making you know minimum wage just over minimum wage about 18 an hour tell me tell me a little bit more about the inception of this. When you picked up these Parent PLUS loans, because typically a Parent PLUS loan is the parent is signing for it, therefore the parent plans to pay it unless you've stipulated something else. What was the original agreement? Was it, hey, we're taking these out because we're going to pay for it,

or we're taking these out and you guys are going to pay them back? And by the way, it's going to be this much money. Yeah, that was the agreement that they would pay them back. And did they know how much they were taking out at the time? Yes. Okay. So my daughter, there's a lot of things involved, but my daughter actually went to a private school for eight years. My son went to a private school for eight years. My son went to a public school, what, for seven years.

We had some deaths in the family. Okay. And then my next question is, was there any piece of you that said, hey, don't do this? Or you guys were like, yeah, just tell me where to sign. Yeah, you can blame the system. But at some point, you know, $300,000, mom. Yeah. Well, you know, at first, you know, you're going to go to school for four years.

Okay, it's going to cost this X amount of dollars. And then you don't make it four years. Now it's X amount of dollars. And my daughter did say to me about five years or six years into this, like, I don't know if I can finish school. And I said, well, it's too late now. You have to because you have student loan debt that you paying on this because you feel um that you should help because if we're just looking at it as it is if the agreement was and if i called you know your daughter and son today and said was the agreement that you would pay these back and they said yes that was the agreement and so they corroborate your your story then they just need

to pay them and that's that on that now if you're like hey they can't pay them and this is jacking with my credit then i'd say okay yeah you made your bed you have to lay in it and so yeah you have to fill in the gaps because you were part you were a co-conspirator on this and so there's really no there's no way out of this other than somebody pays these loans and they're at fault they're at fault because they said hey yeah i'll pay them back but mom and dad y'all're at fault because they said, hey, yeah, I'll pay them back, but mom and dad, y'all are at fault too. This is not good. Yeah.

It's not good. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think a lot of things need to change with the higher educational system. Yeah, but hold on. I'm not there to do that. Yeah, yeah, Kathleen, and it's like, well, they just told us to. They did, but, man, y'all signed them. And I think until you take ownership of this, and it might mean you have to go get a—

I've definitely taken ownership. Do what? I have definitely taken ownership. I mean, I am paying the student loans back. I just, I guess, like, I know that they need to be paid, and, like, if they can't pay them, then I'm responsible for that. I know that. But hold on.

You have created a world that your kids are dictating what you do, and that's how we end up here. Okay. And at some point, as my friend Henry Cloud says, they have to get some problems. And they can say the words, we can't pay these bills because they know you're going to pick up the slack, despite the agreement y'all made. If they didn't have you as a backstop, they'd have to figure something out,

which means your son would have to get an engineering job making more than 50 grand. And he'd also have to deliver pizzas and instacart on the weekends and you'd have to live in a one-bedroom apartment yeah yeah i i mean i think they know all of that but they're not doing it and you're picking up the slack and they know that and until you sit down with a converse with a conversation say okay you got two more months and then i'm not sending another penny y'all are on your own and they're going to go yeah right

and then it happens I mean until you hold that boundary I mean why would they right they haven't their whole life I know a number of parents when I was working at the university system that would sell their kids you got four years that's all I'm paying and if you

need to go to year five and six it it's on you. You better get that. You better get your grades done. You better get your work done because I'm paying for four years. That's it. Yeah. I think it's good when you put the steam on a little bit, especially because your name is on these. I remember kind of similar, but not really similar. You know, my husband and I had student loans and many of them, his mom signed for. And so she was like, you need to pay these loans because I'm trying to buy a house and this is making my, this is messing with my credit. And so there's part of it that's like, it just is what it is. And I mean, I remember us going back and forth being like, listen, you signed for these two, so you're going to have to be patient. This is just

created a, it just creates a rift in those relationships that unfortunately really doesn't go away until they're paid off. That's exactly right. And I don't think there's going to be any urgency for these kids to pay these off as long as they're living in your house, making half of what they should be making out in the marketplace because mom's going to bail us out. I think you have to step up and say, here's a boundary. And I've never held boundaries like this for you, you too. And these are new, but these are going to be in stone. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you,

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Let's go out to New York, New York, and talk to Dave. What's up, Dave? Hi, John. Hi, Jay. Thank you so much for taking my call. You got it, man. What's up? So I have a little bit of a work dilemma.

I found out that I'm eligible for a severance, a voluntary severance package program, and I'm debating whether or not I should take it. Do you like your job? Well, I like my team, the job itself. I'm not really too interested in the field, although it's what I've been doing for most of my professional career. And in hindsight, it might not be a lot of money, but I'm currently debt-free. And I would feel pretty confident that I would be able to get another job

if I were to stay in the same field. Why don't you do what you actually want to do? I guess that's part of it, is I'm not too sure what career I would want. I know that if I were to stay in the field, I currently work in tax. I'm an accountant. Okay.

And so I'm debating whether or not I should take advantage of this program, even though I've only been with this company for a handful of years, and move on to something else, or if I should stick it out here. What would you have done if they never offered you the severance package? Would you be looking originally when I took this job I realistically didn't see myself staying for more than 5 or 6 years to what

to what end the end goal would eventually be to get a job and move and relocate out of state or find something get a job and relocate out of state or find something more remote. Get a job doing what? Right now, what I'm currently doing, and hopefully try to transition to something else

once I have a better picture of what that is. Is there something financially that's on fire in your life that's making a bigger chunk of money look good to you? No, not particularly. I'm debt-free. Okay. What is the severance package? So between the severance package, stock options, and unused PTO, before taxes, it would be around $32,000, $33,000. What do you make a year? Course salary is $93,000.

Okay, so they're paying you four months salary, basically. Yeah. Here's my bigger concern. It sounds like you keep waiting for your life just to show up for you, and that's just not how it works. Because if you're going to quit this job and go work something that you don't love the job, but you love your team. And they dangle a couple of months of salary in front of you and you bail. But you're not bailing towards a different career that you actually want or management that you want or a different state than you want. But you're just going to go to another tax place in the same town. The only risk you have here is you're gambling $30-something

thousand on having a team that's awful versus the known. And so if you were telling me this is going to be my break, I'm going to take four months and retool. I'm going to work really hard. We're going to give you Ken Coleman's get clear assessment. What do I actually want to do? How is AI going to impact just basic tax work? Is this job going to be here in five years? You need to ask those questions and then get serious about taking steps towards what's next. If you think your company is going to close down around you in the next six months, then yeah, I would take the first exit off the ramp. If you have another job lined up and you're ready to rock and roll, I would take the first exit off,

take the 30 grand and run. But all you're telling me is, no, I don't really like this, but I'm just going to take their money and keep doing the same thing somewhere else. And I'm pretty sure I can get something else. You see what I'm saying? It just kind of feels like wet bread, just milquetoast, just eh to eh to eh. And I just don't think that's a good path for anybody. Yeah, yeah. It's really the, I guess it's the unknown that's the fear for

if they're offering something like this now, then do they anticipate layoffs or terminations within the next year or two? Is it something that I should take advantage of right now? That's kind of where my mind was going. To be honest, I wanted you to ask more questions around this offer. And I think that's one of the things I would go back and do. If you have a leader, you know, you said you like the people you work with. So hopefully you have a leader that you can trust and say, hey, tell me more about this.

What's coming in the future? If I don't, is this you guys trying to take care of me now before things get worse? And just have a couple of candid conversations because that'll tell you a lot as well as opposed to kind of guessing and being afraid to ask. Will they be honest with you? Yes. Okay. I think Jade's guidance is wise. Every place I've ever worked as a senior leader, when we offered buyouts, it was always a precursor to, if this doesn't solve our problem, we have to go to the next level, which is letting people go. That was 100% of the time. I can only speak of my experiences, but it happened at multiple places. I don't see why it wouldn't be. Otherwise, what's the point? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That was my thought process.

And so it's unknown of their underlying tones of the business is doing poorly and they're offering this to employees. And is this something I need to take and then jump ship before I'm out of a job? And here's how I would not walk up to my supervisor and say, Hey, I'm thinking about taking this money. Because then you've already set sail. Now, their job is to talk you into following your instinct because they don't want someone on their team that is halfway in. I would sit down and say, hey, this is really strange.

I love working here with this team. And the whole idea is making me uncomfortable. We all work in numbers. And so we all know how math works. What's the real picture here? And then hopefully they'll tell you, yeah, it's pretty dicey. And a good supervisor would say, you're going to be fine no matter what. I would hope you stay. Or a good supervisor who loves you, who knows it's getting dicey, will tell you, hey bro, take the train out of town. It's a good run. But I love Jade's wisdom here.

And dude, I just want to lean on you, man. You only get one life, bro. And the more you just like in five or six years, I just hope it changes. It's not going to. It's going to be the exact same life in five or six years. Unless you actively right now seek to change it. Hang on the line. We're going to send you Ken Coleman's brand new book and

the Get Clear Assessment and get you hooked up and get you thinking about what comes next. 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything.

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Let's go out to the SLC and talk to Will. What up, Will? How we doing? Hey, John. Hey, Jade. How we doing? We're doing all right, man. How about you? Well, I could use you a little bit better, you know. What happened? Trying to figure out where I go from here. What happened?

So I run a business. We've been doing this for about two months now um and it's a distribution company and so what we do is we distribute sod around all of uh the salt lake valley cool um and yesterday i got home from my morning deliveries i parked the truck and went home to go get some lunch and i get a call from one of the neighbors saying, are you on site? And I say, no. And they say, well, your truck's on fire. And so, yeah, so I rush over there.

I can see smoke from my apartment. Wow. Yeah, so it was, and by the time I got there, the whole thing was just gone. Do you have enemies? Do you have enemies out there? I don't know. I really don't know.

Bro, hey, listen, I've seen this movie. It's a rival sod company. Yeah, probably what it is. It's Game On in Salt Lake City. So what happens? The truck's on fire. Truck's on fire. I roll up and, you know, cops and fire departments everywhere are trying to put it out.

Luckily, no one was hurt. And, you know, I keep thinking that this was probably the best place for it to happen. You know, on the side of the road, at my base of operations, no one was hurt or anything like that. Truck was fully insured. so we're good there. Okay. So how can we help, man? Other than just being sad with you. So my question is, where do I go from here?

I'm financially speaking. My assumption is that i i assume the truck was worth about 70 000 it was fully paid off okay so it's worth 70 what's insurance giving you i assume it was worth 70 i bought it for 35 um but i felt like it was a good deal at the time and i know trucks that are worth what's insurance giving you? I don't know yet. The adjuster talked to me this morning. We're just waiting on claims for the adjuster to come out, look at it, and determine what the value was on it. So they need to turn that around real quick and tell me,

you have a business contingent on this truck, and then I'd go rent a truck for the time being. Yeah. So what I've been doing is I've been subcontracting out the truck. I still make, I still make a margin on the product itself, you know? Um, and so like, so I've just been kind of in full truck shopping mode. Um, but my question is, I guess fully on, on, on a more just level, you know, I'm kind of looking at this as kind of a baptism by fire, I guess you could say,

and kind of saying, how do I set the business up from here to succeed? Don't do anything stupid. And you're about to, so don't. Yeah, I don't think one, it's almost like one thing doesn't have anything to do with the other. You know, the truck's on fire. Insurance is going to come out. They're going to give you, if you said it was fully covered and you had the right coverage, you're going to get the money you need to replace it at value.

And here's the thing. Let's pretend that they don't give you as much as you feel like they should have. Still only spend what they give you on the next truck. This is not an excuse to go into debt on the next one. You said that you got the other one

at a crazy deal anyway, and really it was only worth, you spent $35,000. So hopefully that's what they'll give you and you can spend that again. Well, and also you call it a great deal anyway and really it was only worth um you spent 35 000 so hopefully that's what they'll give you and you can spend that again um well and also you call it a great deal dude it caught on fire it wasn't that great of a deal right yeah fair enough so it wasn't that great of a truck so maybe spend 50 if they give you a check for 70 spend 50 but the other 20 in a bank account for your company you you though are about to go buy a $120,000 truck, aren't you?

No, no, no, no, no. I am not. I am not. My mindset's always been frugal. I do not. Okay, good. I don't like spending more than my worth. So then what's the other part of the question when you're saying,

how can I set my business up to succeed from here on out? Tell us where you don't feel like you are succeeding, and then we can help you out. Well, I guess the big thing is financially i just want to know how do i structure this business to succeed so i'm i'm fully out of debt uh there's all i have is accounts payable and my lease and that's about it okay good um i just want to make sure that i'm i'm i'm on the right track you are you are and i feel you just got hit in the mouth. That's it.

You're moving at the speed of cash. The best possible thing that you can do is move at the speed of cash and not be tempted to do things. I'm going to put it like this. Do things to prove that you have a business, which is buying things that you don't really need, buying a bunch of equipment or merchandise or office space that you truly don't need, hiring people before it's time just so you can be like I've got employees like all that stuff as long as you're moving at the right time and you're not doing anything uh for show and you're moving at cash I think for where

you are and what you're doing I think you're right on track and just keeping good books like making sure that you know uh your numbers that's the best you can do and and let's let's flip this around let's say you were like most small business owners in america who's starting a business you would owe fifty thousand dollars you would have bought an eighty five thousand dollar truck that burned to the ground they're going to write you a check for 40 grand and you'd owe forty thousand dollars yeah so you can't see it because you just watched your truck, your livelihood burn up in front of you the other day. Jade and I are sitting here saying, you're doing this exactly right. You had a fully insured paid off truck just for this

moment so that if it catches on fire and explodes in the neighbor's driveway, you're just going to get a check for another one. You're going to go get another used truck and keep right on going. Yeah. You're going to go get another used truck and keep right on going. Yeah. You're doing it right. Okay. And maybe I just need a little bit of reassurance on that. No, you're good, man. You just watched something pretty traumatic.

Your whole business looked like it burned up in front of you. I know. I think it's kind of ironic. I've been starting the story of Joe for the last week, and this is kind of what happened. And we always tell people, when you start a business or you start trying to get on the same page with your partner with money expect murphy to show up

it's just going to test your boundary and see how see how honest and committed you are yeah no i i totally agree so i appreciate that i appreciate there's no chance they give you a $70,000 check and i want here's what i want you to be careful. I knew that. That's why I'm over-evaluating. Okay, but here's what's going to happen. They're going to write you a check for $60,000, which is, what, $20,000 more than you paid for it? $30,000 more than you paid for it? And you're going to feel like they stole $10,000 from you,

and it's going to leave a bad taste in your mouth. Just be very open-handed. What's the truck actually worth when it exploded? And then take that money and go buy yourself a cash truck. Okay. And then keep right on going. How's your business doing? Yeah.

Are you making money? You know what? I can't complain. I think within two months, we've grossed about $150,000 so far. And so as far as the small business goes, I can't complain. What's your net? Yeah. What are you netting? Net, I believe as of right now, we're about 85.

Okay. 85,000 or 8,500? 85,000. Okay. How many of you guys is it? This is me. This is me. I'm a one man show. Okay. And what are you taking home? Are you paying yourself? Are you taking everything out of the business or Are you reinvesting? I, like I say, I live as frugally as possible. So I just make sure, I make sure my builder paid on the outside.

I really just, I pay rent and food on my personal side and, you know, my personal vehicle. And that's about, you know, as far as fuel and stuff like that. But that's about it. Hold on, homie. You made $42,000 in your first two months as a small business owner? Yeah. That's better than... I can't complain.

I'm very grateful for where I'm at. Hold on. I want to hear you celebrate it. I can't complain. I hate that attitude. Say, dude, I'm actually crushing it. I did my research. I'm serving my community. I'm serving a need, a glitch in the, dude, I'm actually crushing it. I did my research. I'm serving my community. I'm serving a need, a glitch in the market, and I'm making it happen.

Say that. You know what? I'm making it happen. There you go. Making $40,000 a month, dude. That's good money. No matter where you are. Yeah. No, I agree. I agree.

Alright. Well, keep at. I agree. All right. Well, keep at it, man. How do I get on the right page? You're on the right page. If you're hiring, holler at me. Just shoot me a direct message because that's really good money. But, Jade, it's easy when things go sideways to feel like it's all coming down. 100%.

Plus, he's a brand new business owner, so he's just shaking in his shankies anyway. Dude, good on you, Will. I'm proud of you, man. I'll send you George Campbell's resume. He's probably going to want to. Actually, he's not really an outdoor guy. Nah. Nah.

He would hire you, though, to put down his sod. He definitely would. No question. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Hey, welcome back to the Ramsey Show. If you, like the rest of us, are wringing your hands at the state of the world economy and your frustration about how your neighbors are spending money that they don't have and Congress is spending money you don't have, here's what you can do.

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So thank you so much for supporting the show in the way you do. It means the world to us. But more importantly, it means the world to your neighbor. All right, let's go out to Greenville, South Carolina, and talk to not Draw, but Drew. Hey, Drew, what's up, man? Hey, how's it going? We're doing great. How about you? I'm doing great. Thank you guys for all that you do. Thank you, man. What's up? Yeah. So I have a question. My wife and I are, uh, deciding when would be a good time to upgrade our home and how we should go about doing that.

We currently, my wife stays at home, and she homeschools our four kids, and they're all under the age of 10. And so I'm the primary income she does a little bit of work on the side to help uh supplement the income there we we do not have any debt we um we have uh the emergency fund that's fully funded and we're um you know so in that baby step four five six area okay and what's your income to yeah our take home is around 130 a year and so we're currently in a house and our mortgage what's left on that mortgage is 22229,000. Okay. And the house is probably worth about $285,000, somewhere in there. But our house is only about 1,200 to 1,300 square feet.

Okay. And having four teenagers in a house that small does not really look attractive to us. So what are you trying to do to it? You mean I'd like to at some point sell it and move into a larger home within the next two or three years. Okay, so we're just moving up. We're not like doing additions or anything like that. I like it.

Yeah, we thought about an addition, but I'm just not sure it makes sense. It's an older house and just not sure it would be the best fit for us. So you owe $285,000 on the current mortgage. Did I get that right? No, $229,000 on the current mortgage. I think it's worth about $285,000. Got it. Okay. And so how much are you trying to move up? Like, what are you trying to spend here? You know, as we've been looking in the housing market, I'm thinking somewhere from $4,000 to $4,500 is probably where we need to be.

Okay. And so is the plan that we're going to take the winnings from the sale of this house, which is not going to be an incredible amount after fees. Right. What do you think be an incredible amount after fees. Right. What do you think you'll take home after fees? Yeah, you know, I would, I'm hoping maybe around 35 to 40, but, you know, I really would like to do this in the next two to three years. So I'm trying to, I wanted to talk to you guys about how can I use the next two to three years. So I'm trying to, I wanted to talk to you guys about how can I use the next two to three years to be able to, to make that gap greater between what the house is worth and

what I owe. Obviously I can pay it down, but what's the, what's the best path for me to be able to get in to upgrade into a home in that price range we were talking about? I think it's twofold. I think that, yes, continue to make extra mortgage payments. You've got that margin there. And in that way, it's just a forced savings account. Right. Which I kind of like that because it's different from piling up money in an HYSA because then you think, oh, I've got this money here. You know what? We do need a new vehicle. You know what? We do need to take a trip to Europe. And so it's easy to kind of look at that money for other things and so in this case technically you guys are on baby steps four five and six and so I would act in that way and put extra payments towards the mortgage and continue to do that now if you did

if it did make you feel better to say yeah I'm also going to stack up some cash for a down payment I'd probably do both of those things and so that you've got both of those things there. Simultaneously. Yeah. Because I think you've got the margin to do that. And then, I mean, I think, you know, our rule of thumb, you'll know that you're ready when you can get this $400,000 house when you're able to put the write down payment down that allows this to be no more than 25% of your take home all in. And that's including things like, you know, homeowners association fees. Yes. Okay. And the ideal mortgage is a 15, a 15 year. What are you in now?

Currently we're in a 30 year and yeah, definitely not ideal. We, you know, we, we kind of just came into baby steps four, five, six, or we want to start throwing money at the mortgage but um yeah and we're we don't have a great rate we had to move at a time when it wasn't uh ideal but so we're you know we're hoping maybe in the future to be able to refinance or maybe if we buy uh an upgrade that if we move into, when we move into a 15 year mortgage, that the rates will be lower. Here's what I want to challenge you on. Um, and this is just, you know, take it, take it or leave it. The whole point is to be debt free. That's the point is to

be free, to live free, to live in a home that you pay for. And I do worry about, I mean, you guys make a good income right now, you know, you owe two000. That's not crazy. I would hate for you to refinance into, I would hate that you go into more mortgage for a longer term. Because so many people say, oh, I'll get the 30-year and pay it like the 15, or I'll get the 30-year and then when I'm ready, I'll refinance. But life, life's. And the next thing we know, something else kind of takes that priority or takes that place. And that's the only thing that I would caution you against on. There truly is a piece of this where you may not be ready to upgrade simply because of that alone. Yeah. Because of the, you know what I mean? So weigh that out with your wife because the affordability part does include the style of the loan, you know? Right. Right. Yeah. And I, I mean, it may

just take a couple more years of me, uh, having a lot of kids in a small house. You'll get to know each other real well. You sound a lot like me, so I don't want to project my experience onto you, but you've got a lot of different ideas all happening at the same time. Yeah. I think I'm going to refit. What if we just put an apartment on top of this garage, and I'm also going to spend my spare minutes scrolling the housing market in town, and I'm going to spend a little bit of time being frantic about our rate. I'm also going to be a little – like what if we just – I'm going to look up high yields. Yeah. You're reading me.

You're reading me like a book there. Okay. So that's me. And here's what we do. We're like the running back who just runs east to west side to side, a hundred yards, but we only make three yards down the field. We don't go anywhere. And we make our wives tired. We make our kids exhausted. So here's what I would love you and your wife to sit down. And this is the only way my wife and I have been able to find peace in these type of journeys. Let's have a number we're going to have saved up before we move. Period. Okay.

And if you decide, all right, I'm going to buy a $400,000 house. I'm going to get 80 grand down payment. I'm going to have no PMI. Like, what do we have to do to get 80 grand? We're going to sell this house. We're going to hopefully 80 grand down payment. I'm going to have no PMI. Like, what do we have to do to get 80 grand? We're going to sell this house. We're going to hopefully get 40 for it. That means I got to make $40,000 in cash in an account. Ready, go.

And now we're not looking at other things. We're not spinning our wheels. Our whole house is focused on getting this number in that account, and then it's going to trigger the next move. Now we're going to go buy a house. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? No, that's, yeah, that's great. Yeah. I think, yeah. And I would just offer this to you guys too. My wife and I have been using every dollar now for four to five months and it has completely changed how we communicate, completely changed how we, how we budget. And we and we're like i mean it's like a

competition every morning who can drop the expenditures into the bucket and who's you know are we is anything in red wow we love to hear that dude that's amazing man that's amazing we could even pay for that kind of commercial thank you drew thanks to you america this is the ramsey show we'll be back. Bye.