The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Let Others Manipulate Your Financial Decisions! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: March 12, 2020

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Lauren is with us in Chicago. Hey, Lauren, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. thanks for having me. Sure, how can I help? I'm a long-time listener.

Thank you. And you've helped me a lot over the past year, so I appreciate you. I wish I was calling with a different question, but this is the question I have. It's sort of a moral and financial conflict, if you will, and I would appreciate your feedback. My ex-husband, he has a terminal illness.

We have two children, and they are 11 and 14. We have a very, we don't unfortunately have a good relationship. We've had a very, we were in court a lot and things like that. But overall, this is just the status right now. So he's created an estate plan and a trust for the kids to cover their expenses. He claims it will cover everything, whatever they could want, their weddings, college, and that they both be paid out at about, I think, the age of 30, maybe a million dollars each, somewhere around there. Per a divorce decree, we have an obligation to hold a life insurance policy for each other,

with the children listed as beneficiaries and then the other parent as a trustee. My ex is stating to me that he will not allow for me to have what he considers a financial windfall or benefit from his death in any way. And he wants me to sign away my rights to the $250,000 life insurance policy. And in return, he is offering to pay me a monthly stipend until the children are 18. He states, if I do not agree, that he will bury all of this money that they would otherwise inherit and has what he calls a poison pill or something in his plan, and the kids will not see any of it at any time. I just want to know morally what you thought about this as far as, you know, what a mother should do in this kind of situation.

I don't do extortion. Yeah. And I'm really sorry this gentleman is sick, but what you've described to me is sick and evil. Yes. And so I would look at him and say, you will abide by the divorce decree, and I will be staying on this.

If you choose to penalize your own children that does not make a statement about me that makes a statement about you and what kind of man you are and what kind of legacy you're going to leave i think he's bluffing yeah he has manipulated you for years this guy's a master manipulator he's a bully and he's an extortionist am i wrong no you're not this is not the first time you've experienced this emotion with this man while married to him and post-divorce as well, right? This is not the first time.

Yeah, he constantly pulls this kind of crap. Yes. Yeah, and he doesn't follow through. Well, I usually give in somewhat, and so I usually worry about the long-term effects. I usually give too much, honestly. I give in too much. And, you know, at this point, I've moved on with my life. We've been divorced 10 years.

I'm married. I can support my children. What do you make a year? My husband and I make about $275. Okay. So you don't need any of this money. And your kids will be fine. Your kids will be fine.

They will. Yeah. Now, I would tell him that I'm really sorry you're sick, but what you're proposing to me is in violation of our agreement, and so we will be sticking with the agreement. You will be sending me, you'll be leaving me on the policy. If you do not, immediately I will have the court intervene. And you not leaving money to your kids is not a statement about me.

It's a statement about you. So what legacy do you want to leave? How do you want your children and therefore your grandchildren to remember you? And it's up to you how you want to act. I can't control if you want to be evil and misbehave that's up to you but that's how you're going to be remembered and then you can decide what you want to do and if you want to leave the kids nothing it'll be okay we'll take care of them right and so you think morally if they did ultimately end up with nothing because obviously

this is a very dark you know that would be his fault, not yours. It's not my fault. It's his fault. It's not yours. That's his fault, morally. Right. If he chooses to not leave his children money as a vindictive act against his ex-wife because she would not cave to his manipulation that is evil that's evil right okay and um you know i think it is high time for your mental health sake that you stand up and you

just say you know i'm just not gonna play right i'm not i'm not gonna you do what you want to do but i i do not i want you to hear loud and clear that you have done nothing wrong right he may or may not do something wrong but i would i would call him out i would just say how do you want to be remembered yeah well i did during this we met and had a small, short conversation about it, and he said that he just does not care, that he will not die having me benefit in any way. That's what the divorce court said. What will happen, I don't know. Yeah, okay, that's fine.

That's fine. If you want to be remembered as a complete twerp who's evil and misplaced his priorities in vindictiveness, you place vindictiveness over the care of your children, and you want that to be your legacy, that's fine. You just decided that. But it's not up to me. It's up to you because, no, I'm not caving. Right. Tell him to stick it in his ear.

Man, what a horrible person. I know. Yeah, it's terrible. I can't think how something bad i can't think how i would be so mad at someone that i would punish my children to keep them from having something i just can't imagine that i would get there i mean this guy he's got real issues and it's sad that he's terminal i'm so sorry um because he whoa what a horrible thing. But no, you do what you want to do. You ask my opinion.

I don't do extortion. And so it's do your worst, you know. I'm going to do what I'm going to do, and then you have to decide what you're going to do. But I'm not going to be told what to do because you threatened me. That's extortion. And never. Matter of fact, I have a real tendency to not do things that are wise

sometimes just to not be threatened into something. It's kind of a hillbilly thing, I think. Kind of a redneck thing. Just because you told me that means I'll never do it. You know, that thing. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major health care costs.

Christian Health Care Ministries is the original health cost-sharing ministry. A Better Business Bureau-accredited organization, CHM members share to pay each other's medical bills. It's not insurance. It's Christians financially and spiritually supporting each other. It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years, and our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. Thanks for joining us, America. John's in Boston, Massachusetts.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, John. Hi. Hey, what's up? I've got a question. Well, I'm going to sell my house. Okay. It's too big for what we need. Do I buy right away?

There's a house right down the street, much smaller. Or do I rent for the next couple of years? Because we're in, I think, a real estate bubble. I'm not sure. The house, when I sell it, I'll end up with probably $700,000 in the bank. Do I invest that money, and that helps pay for the rental, or do I outright just buy another house? When you say there's a real estate bubble, do you mean the neighborhood or the Boston market,

or do you mean nationally? Boston market's going insane. Okay. Well, there are some markets that have experienced bubbles independent of the national market, where a city or an area went up and it overgrew, and then it corrected while the rest of the economy was just doing whatever it did, right? That is very unusual. Most of the time, if a market is somewhat overheated and the economy turns down,

the heat will turn down on the market. It seldom collapses. There's only been really two times that we've had pretty distinct losses in residential real estate values, you know, with rare exceptions. But, I mean, there's a few market adjustments that have happened. But overall, I mean, 2008 and the Great Depression, that's about the only time you've seen loss in real estate values. And so I would buy. And, you know i if i were selling my home nashville's market is quite hot and if i were selling my home today which i'm not um i i would just turn around and buy again in the market uh and so if i were you i would just

take your cash and buy the smaller house down the street that you want and invest the rest of it um and you know invest it according to what you think is going to happen but i think your your personal residence is going to be just fine that's my belief i mean there's no guarantee there's not a fdic guarantee on the value of real estate but when you look at the actual historic data of real estate values, there's very few times you've seen a substantial downturn in value, you know, across the board. Really, only two times nationally in modern history and in the last 200, 150 years. So and that would be the Great Depression in 2008. And, you know, what happened there instance vegas was oh was probably the most distinct bubble uh it was the fastest growing city in america and it became a wasteland for a

short period of time following 2008 and so because it was so overdone it became one of the worst markets when the market overall when the economy went down in 08 but i don't think that's happening again i i you know i you never know you never know but a paid for house that you're living in is really not a bad place to have money julie is with us in chicago hi julie welcome to the dave ramsey show hi dave ramsey pleasure to be I'm very excited. Well, my situation is very odd. After 30-some years, my husband left. Wow. Not knowing I started living on my father's inheritance he had given me, not knowing that was coming. I'm now married 36 years. Five and a half have passed Mr. Ramsey. And as of July of 2015, I am owed every month

alimony. And he stopped working intentionally and hundreds of thousands of dollars showed up in various accounts, including China. And all of the rulings, as I said, Mr. Ramsey, were in my favor. However, all I actually physically received was a $10,000 purge for him lying in front of the judge in the first place. Is the divorce final? No, sir. After six years. It's actually no see what happened is he started sneaking around

in another state why is the divorce not final uh well because i've been going subjecting myself to the florida courts for four years and i'm i've waited to get one month of all these months of alimony. It hasn't happened. Okay, I don't understand. The divorce being final does not keep you from getting alimony that's back due. Well, the divorce isn't final yet because I've just kept going to court and listening to my lawyer. Who's been collecting lawyer lawyers fees for five years

no it's been going on for well i guess it's pretty close to that now yeah but like i said july of 2014 how old are you i'm actually 61 and you have any money now not counting what he's what he owes you um well i've been watching my grandchildren and when i had one grandchild to watch i was not quite do you have any of this inheritance left from your father darling we're we're at the end mr ramsey we are really at the end you've used up all the money almost there okay all right and so you know what it amounts to is is we've got a a a court system a lawyer and a husband none of which are behaving and um you're going to have to take control of your income at 61 years old you have a new career ta-da you need to go make some money for you to eat and to live

you have bathed in this emotional acid for five six seven years now it's all you think about it's eating you alive and um you need to get some income coming in so that you're independent of this acid bath for your food and your lights and your water and your future. And so that's a career choice for you. That's you doing something other than watching your grandbabies because that's not enough money. And you're only 61 and I'm only 58. I got a lot of life left. I could do it again if I had to right now. Ready, set, go. I don't want to. It's not pleasant. I'm sorry you're facing this. But you have, this has absorbed you. It's become your whole life. It's like someone fighting cancer. Only with cancer, you can't get away from it. With this guy, you can get away from him.

And so I think I'm going to fire my attorney, and I'm going to get one that completes this divorce soon. And then I'm going to continue to go after the guy and get my money out of him. I don't mind that at all. But a divorce that goes on five or six years is record-breaking. That's a new record. There's very few of them that do that. And so a really, really, really long one is 12, 14 months. And people do it, I know.

But the problem is it emotionally sucks the marrow out of your bones. And there's no future. We're spending all our time looking at the past and being pissed. And you got a right to be pissed. You got a right to look at the past. That's allowed. I understand that. Your heart's broken.

He trumpled all over you with muddy boots. I get all of that, but it's not helping you. So the windshield's the big window. The rearview mirror's the little window. Let's figure out where we're going, not where we've been. And let's start working on that one. And that just helps you with grace and helps you with your life. I'm so sorry, honey. I can hear the pain. I can hear the anger. I can hear all of it in your

voice. And I would have every bit of that if I were you. I'd be right where you are. I'd be ready to kill somebody. Only I probably would have redirected my ire at the attorneys by now. But anyway, you either tell them it's time to paint or get off the ladder down there in florida folk i mean you're gonna have to get this thing moving and you know you got four months to wrap it up if not we're gonna get some new people because i've given you about all i can give you and um get your career going for your future because i don't think mr scumbag is going to give you any money he's worked for six years to hide it all. You might.

Justice says you get money. But I'm not sure you'll see justice. So I want you to have a life outside of justice. I'm so sorry. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Dan is in Boise, Idaho. Hi, Dan. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave.

Thanks for having me on today. I appreciate it. My pleasure. How can I help? Well, me and my wife, we've been fans of the show for a while, and we're both teachers, but I recently got a new job that's going to change things quite dramatically for us. We're moving states, everything, and we just kind of wanted to make sure we got this done right, because we've never been in some of these positions before. Cool. What do you make now?

Right now, I make about $50,000 a year as a teacher, and the new salary is going to be closer to about $140,000. Wow. Big jump. Good for you. What are you going to be doing? Well, I'm going to be working for one of the larger tech companies in the world. I don't want to call them out or anything, but in the top four or five. Cool.

Good for you. Good. Yeah, it's been a long work and them out or anything, but in the top four or five. Cool. Good for you. Good. Yeah. It's been a long work and process to get there, but it's been great. Okay. So we're having to relocate cities and we're leaving the whole life behind. You know, we got to bring my dad with me because of his health and stuff. And so I have a retirement plan that's pretty much been managed by the system. And then now I'm going into a system where it's sort of up to me to kind of manage that. And so I'm a little nervous about that part and, you know, getting some of the debts gone that we had to take on to get through education.

Okay. Well, as you may have heard, we teach a process, a step-by-step plan called the Baby Steps, and that would be your order of attack on this you get moved you get settled and uh you would take your current retirement plan and roll it to a an ira you can click smart investor at dave ramsey.com they'll help you do that when you're ready and you're not ready now but when you're ready to start doing your own retirement they can help you put that together as well but baby step one is a thousand dollars saved baby step two is to be debt free everything but your house so that's what you're going to concentrate on right now yeah because

the house we have now when we sell it it will pay off all of our like outstanding debts oh good for our student loans oh and how much student loan debt have you got? Oh! Okay, so anyway, so you've got $200,000 to clean up making $140,000. Is your wife going to be working outside the home in the new location? Okay. All right. And so you're making 140 how fast do you plan to pay off 200 uh well that's just it i haven't gone to that we haven't ever had to make a payment on it because our income's never been high enough and in two more years as a teacher i would have

qualified for the forgiveness well assuming you could have got it. Nobody's gotten it much yet. But anyway, so, okay, let's just pretend that you put $75,000 or let's see, $80,000 on it. In other words, you live on about what you used to live on. Uh-huh. And you put all this new income on the debt, and you'd be out of debt in three years. Okay. And then once you're debt-free, then you would build your emergency fund to three to six months of expenses,

and only then would you start retirement in baby step four, 15% of your income going towards retirement. But this is not, you didn't hit the lottery, and you get to go buy new furniture. Right. You're broke. That's one of the things, yeah. Yeah, you're broke and deeply in debt. Okay. And we weren't sure because of the size of the student loans if we should put that in the same step with like the house mortgage because of how big it was.

Absolutely. Doesn't matter. Size doesn't matter on it. You've got to take care of it. Because it's not going anywhere until you punch it. The great news is you almost tripled your income, and so now you're going to be able to address it very, very aggressively as long as you don't go crazy with this new income. And so you've got to get on a written budget and keep your lifestyle down to nothing.

And if you start throwing $75,000 start throwing 75 80 000 at this in three years it's gone and that's you know that's still living on about what you used to make so you're not going to get to enjoy this money for right now for right now you're going to use it to clean up this huge mess that you made and uh then you once you get that mess cleaned up, then you're 100% debt-free. You're renting a cheap house. You're selling the house you're in. You're going to rent something cheap. You're going to drive something cheap.

We're going to be 100% debt-free. We'll build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Then we'll save up towards starting to buy a home, and once we've done that, then we'll start talking about putting money in Baby Step 4 into your retirement. Brandon is with us in Tyler, Texas. Hi, Brandon. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave.

How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Good. I have a question. I'm a full-time student. I hold two part-time jobs getting me through school. I'm having trouble hearing you.

Can you speak directly into your phone, please? Yes, sir. Is that better? A little bit, yes, sir. Okay. So I'm a full-time student. I have two jobs, and I have a wife and four children. I'm just about to graduate in May.

Good. And, well, I'm also having trouble also finding a job because a lot of folks want experience. But that's not what the phone call is about. I'm roughly about $24,000 in debt for student loans. I just started. Me and my wife just got saved about two years ago and we're on fire for the Lord, on fire.

I'm a youth pastor at my local church and anyways, I'm wanting to be debt free and trying to also have an $8,000 car payment which I should be able to have that paid off with my current income in about eight months.

But my wife, we have four kids, one only at home. All the other ones are at school. She does not want to work. She wants to be a stay-at-home mom, and I wanted to see what you thought about that, what the Bible says about that. I don't find the Bible requiring her to work or to stay at home. I think that's a decision the two of you make, and your economics look at that. There's

lots of scriptures dealing with uh women and men being industrious probably the most famous about ladies would be proverbs 31 and it goes through in great detail the great industry of the proverbs 31 woman that she um that she earns an income that she makes money and she makes her household proud as well but uh i i don't find scripture saying you have to stay home with your kids. I don't find Scripture saying you have to be in the marketplace. And so either one. So what we do need to do is work together as a team and submitting ourselves one to another.

Scripture says that. I mean, we're there to serve each other and serve our household and not not it's not selfish desire selfish ambition it would be what's good for the family and if you got four children at home uh and she can at a minimum uh biblically she would be required to be a an expert home economist uh use that time at home to cook from scratch, which is much cheaper and also more healthy. Obviously, she's a coupon queen. You know, she's looking at consignment sale clothing and anything she can do.

A lot of ladies have great eBay businesses. You know, what can she do that's a Christy Wright kind of a business boutique thing that she can do while she's at home with the kids that actually makes money? And there's lots of things out there that you can do without, quote, taking the nine-to-five career job. But there's nothing wrong with the career job. So what is your degree going to be in? Instrumentation and electrical.

Okay. And pretty much working in power plants chemical plants uh the maintenance part of the job okay all right and so you when you land that when you land that what will your income increase to uh roughly about 30 to 40 an hour wow it'll it'll increase a lot i've raised my kids by myself on $10 an hour since 2009. Yeah, so when you get that job, I don't think we're going to have to worry as much about the income she produces. My wife's been a full-time mom for 33 years.

Now she's a full-time Mimi and keeper of the Shih Tzu Rufus. But we're not in a position that we need an income created from her. Thanks for the call. Our scripture of the day, James 125, but whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom and continues in it, not forgetting what they've heard, but doing it, they will be blessed in what they do. John Maxwell says, the pessimist complains about the wind, the optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails.

That's the difference. John Maxwell, probably one of the best leadership teachers in the last 50 years or so in America. Absolutely incredible. John is with us in San Antonio. Hey, John, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thanks for having me, Dave. Certainly. How can I help? Well, I'm a new listener. My wife's been a

longtime fan, and she convinced me to listen to your show, and I've been really enjoying it. Good, thanks. Yeah, you're welcome. And I'm curious about something that you've probably covered to your longtime listeners' notice, but I haven't heard you cover it yet. Of course, I understand that don't go with credit cards, don't take out loans, go as debt-free as you possibly can, and obviously get there as quickly as you can.

My curiosity is most of us can't afford to buy a home cash, so we're going to have to get a mortgage at some point, although we can try to accelerate the payment of it. We need to get it to get into our home. How do we get it with the best rate if I didn't get any credit to increase my credit score so I can get the lowest rate on my mortgage to begin with? Well, you do not want to be in no man's land, meaning have a low credit score. That's no man's land in the middle. You either want to have an excellent credit score,

which means you've continually borrowed money and stayed in debt. It's the only way to have one. Or you need to have a zero credit score, which is what I have. And your credit score is indeterminable because you've had no open accounts of any kind, no outstanding balances or outstanding bad debt of any kind for six to eight months. And at that point, they will drop your score to zero. That's been our experience with the FICO calculation. And that's where you want to get to.

That's where I've been for 30 years. I don't have a credit score. Now, so to answer your question, then how do you get a mortgage with no credit score? Well, a large percentage of the mortgage companies don't know how to do a loan without a credit score. So they're just going to tell you you can't do it, which is not true. But you can go to someone like Churchill Mortgage who actually knows how to do a mortgage without a credit score. It's called manual underwriting. And they want to know and proof that you've been employed for two years,

and that you have proof of your income from an income tax return, showing your down payment in a bank, proof of deposit, a VOD, it's called, a verification of deposit, a VOE, a verification of employment, or self-employment for two years with the tax returns to prove it, what your income is. And it's actually, I got my real estate license, John, in 1978 when I was 18 years old, so I'm 58 now. And back then, that's how we did mortgages.

It was actual underwriting. You actually underwrote the mortgage. You verified the deposit. You verified the employment you verified the uh you know the the payment with the landlord you've been paying your landlord earlier on time and you basically did a real underwriting nowadays they just look at a number the fico score and a monkey can make a loan you know it's like the loan's big enough numbers not big enough numbers too big i'm not or you know it's like the loan's big enough oh number's not big enough oh number's too big i'm not or you know that kind of thing and so uh it's dumbed down the mortgage business to where

they don't do real underwriting anymore and it gets the mortgage business in trouble like in 2008 that's how they got in trouble but anyway aside from that the way your practical answer is you go to someone like churchill and if you have you know you steady on your employment you got the reasonable down payment, you paid your landlord earlier on time, you can prove those things without a credit bureau report and with a zero credit score, then you're going to be able to get a manually underwritten loan,

and it is exactly the same interest rate on a Fannie Mae loan. It's perfectly fine uh but the the fico score is um it's under attack now because people are realizing it is not all it's cracked up to be on as a predictor for uh your ability to pay the mortgage and it's got again people that have relied solely on that to make their lending decisions have gotten themselves in trouble with their institutions. Lydia is with us in Cincinnati. Hi, Lydia. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So my husband and I have been in Baby Step 2 for a long time, but last week we kind of caught the

vision of what it might be like if we went with gazelle intensity, so we've been making a lot of changes. But we're still having a disagreement. My husband wants to keep contributing to his 401K since it's matching, and he feels we have enough motivation and that it's leaving money on the table. And I know you say to stop contributing when we're in baby step two, so I was hoping that you could explain why so I could take that to him. Okay.

Well, the first thing is that 100% of the time in life, if you're going to win at something, it's because you focus on it. And the more exclusively you focus on it and the more exclusively you focus on it the higher probability you win and so how long have you guys been married 11 years okay and uh it's not that long ago so you guys should be able to remember when you were dating yeah and there was that point when you were dating when the uh the bubble tilted and it went from oh this is fun to i think i'm in love we're going to get married you know i'm talking about yeah and that happened because somewhere just before that, he decided to focus very exclusively on you, and neither one of you could think about anything else.

And the result is you got married. The result is your love affair blossomed and you got married. You win at what you focus on. No one wakes up and goes and runs a marathon, a half marathon, for that matter, without having trained. Now, there are people that might do it, but it would be suicidal. I mean, you would be so sore and you would wreck your body, right? It just would be ridiculous. And obviously, the more you train and the more carefully you handle things like nutrition and repetition and the quality of shoes and so on, the better your time is going to be.

And if you're going to win a marathon or a half marathon or an Ironman, it requires complete and total dedication. You really don't think about hardly anything else. Getting out of debt's the same way. And so your husband's trying to do two things at once. And a double-minded man is unstable in all his ways. That's a squirrel on the street. Run back, back, back, back, back, back, back, bump, bump. Can't make up his mind. He can't get to one side of the street or the other. You got to make up your mind. And so the power of focus supersedes what little bit you're going to lose by losing that match for this short period of time while you get baby step two knocked out the success all comes from the power of focus and the gazelle intensity and you can't be double-minded you can't have two

things you're trying to focus on at once and have the success level. Is it possible to get out of that? Yeah, it's possible to run a marathon. It's possible to get married without complete focus on the other. But you raise your probability of success when you focus exclusively on winning, and that's what this is. So that's why we found this to be true. I understand his need to want to get that match. It's mathematical blasphemy to suggest that you don't take the match for a short period of time. It's very hard for those of us that are nerds.

I'm a nerd. I speak math, and he does too, and I understand how it's breaking his little heart. But it's his plan that has gotten you to where you are now. So we probably need a different plan than his plan. And that's the sarcasm icing on the cupcake. Not really sarcasm. It was just the mean part. So don't argue with your personal trainer

when your personal trainer has an eight-pack and you have a keg. That's the moral of the story. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. We will be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there is ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show.

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