The Ramsey Show - App - Don’t Let Panic Derail Your Plan

Episode Date: September 9, 2025

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normal's broke and common sense is weird so we're here to help you transform your life from the ramsay network in the fair winds credit union studio this is the ramsie show i'm dave ramsie your host ken coleman ramsie personality, number one bestselling author and host of the front row seat on Ramsey Network is my co-host today. Open phones here at AAA 8255-225. Shea is in Nashville. Hi, Shea. How are you? Hey there. I'm so well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I'm just in an interesting situation right now. I just found out I'm expecting. Yay! Is that your first? It's with my husband, of course. What was that? Is that your first baby?

Yes. Cool. How old are you? I'm 23. Awesomeness. Cool. Okay. Wonderful news.

Yeah. So the thing is it's not planned, so we don't have our finances fully in order. And with me out of work, when the time comes, we will be short of our budget. it so if I could just get any advice on anything else we're missing on what else we could do yeah it just got real why are you out of work well she's saying when she has the baby right yes I'm in work right now you are okay I'm misunderstood it is getting tough already yeah with all the nausea yeah you got got a little morning sickness going huh kiddo all right this is so fun All right. So I distinctly remember, like it was yesterday, it wasn't, but like it was yesterday, that when I graduated from college and got my first adult job, I felt like an adult. We got married. I felt a little bit more like an adult. But nothing scared the crap out of me like of the first baby on the way.

It's the same way for me. Yeah. Okay. And so what little. was left of your former high school, college, freewheeling, partying or not, but just not worrying about responsibilities, what little was left of that is now gone, right? I suppose so. Yeah, so now it's time to get real serious about your careers and real serious about the grown-up stuff, like making some money, having some money for you and this kid, and figuring out how to do this.

And that's why you're calling. I'm so proud of you. Way to go. Because you're reacting to a natural anxiety that we all have had, any of us that have had a baby, unless you're psychotic. When the baby actually comes, it's going to be another one, by the way. It's going to another level of seriousness. It's like a, whoa, this is, I'm now in charge of a life.

I have a real burden here. I have a real responsibility here. You await here. You're going to feel it again, even. when, when, uh, when, uh, when junior enters the world. So, so this is so awesome. So what this means is probably more than ever before in your life, you're going to get real serious about making some money. Yep. That's all, that's what all that leads to. So what do you do for a living? I refurbish furniture and woodwork in Nashville. You don't make any money, do you? Oh,

I make a lot of money. Oh, do you really? Okay, good. I do. Okay. What? What? What? So what's a lot of money? What are you making? Well, I was cut back because I left work for a time. So I'm currently making $24 an hour at 32 hours a week. Well, that's not a lot of money. In my mind, it hasn't been. Okay, but you're saying you're scraping by and you're going to, you're worried that, okay, and what's your husband make?

he's making 2200 a month yeah y'all are starving the death what does he do he works in a warehouse that supplies apartments with furniture and utilities and how old is he he's 23 okay all right and so he just took a job so y'all could have food and lights and water and that's and he's not afraid of work that's a good man but now it's time to not do that anymore it's time to take a career position and start thinking about what am I going to be doing when I'm 30 that makes $100,000 a year? Right. Both of you.

And if you're going to be refinishing furniture, it's because you own a refurnishing furniture company. That's the only possible way you're still doing that when you're 30. Because you're not going to do artsy-fartcy and make a living, working for somebody else. Not going to work. Yeah, I'm curious. What is his goal? Has he stated a professional idea or two or three to you?

He's had a few ideas, and he really would like to get into home inspections. Okay. He just, he loves home supply. Is he handy? Is he good fixing stuff or doing stuff? Does he find that he enjoys doing things like that? He's not so much handy, but he's very intellectual, and he loves logistics. Uh-huh.

And he has no formal training, right? You guys just kind of out of high school? What's his background, educationally? Yeah. Yeah, we're both out of high school, got jobs, and have worked our ways up in the company so far. Well, you know, when you look long term here, I would run those numbers and look at what a future looks like inspecting homes. That's a little bit of a niche now. I think there are people who do very well at it once they consolidate a lot of realtors and things in an area and they become go-to and then they can scale themselves.

But the reason I ask the question about the hands and is he good at things like that, if he's analytical or logistics, I mean, a career in logistics does have an upward mobility, but I'm telling you, if I'm 23 and I wake up today in your husband's shoes, I'm going to look at trades. I'm going to look at some of that talent that he has, and we're going to give you the book, Find the Work You're Wired to do. It's got the get clear assessment in it. I really want him to take it, like you to take it.

Well, Kelly, let's give him a book each. There are two codes, one book. Here's the deal. He needs to be looking at the trades right now because there's so much upward mobility for him to make much more than he's making right now at 22 bucks an hour. And secondly, maybe most... $2,200 a month is worse than $22. That's right, $2,200.

But more importantly, there's a path to ownership in the trades right now. And if he has any kind of talent in that area, I would be looking at that if I were him because of the opportunities. So there's two parts to the equation. We're going to send you that book, and you guys are going to take the assessment. And I want you to develop a long-term game plan for... both of you. What are you going to be doing when this kid is 10? That makes a lot of money for your family and that you enjoy and that you're passionate about. And it's all three are

congruent. Okay. The second part of the equation, though, is what are you going to be doing in the next nine months? You guys need to take six different jobs. All of you, you need to work like crazy people and pile up as much cash as you can pile up right now. Get ready because you're getting ready to have a hiccup in your income nine months from now, right? Right. And so you You've got to get ready. And the way you get ready is you build a stormseller and you fill it with money. And you go work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, like crazy for a short period of time. If you have family in the area that can help watch the baby, you could spin off this woodworking that you do and work full time or close to full time.

If you schedule, you know, your work around weekends, odd hours, because it's really project base, that's how you can make sure we don't miss any money once baby arrives. You got to start thinking like that. Yeah, well, she sounds like she's doing it for someone else by the hour. I agree, but my point is, can she now do that for herself? That's right, and then set her own hours because these are project-based. So it got real. That's the summation of the call. It got real.

And the short-term, you've got to pile up some cash and get ready. Long-term, it's now time to do big-boy, big-girl jobs, careers, not just I take a job that pays me some money so I can make it to the weekend. Brandy is with us in Georgia. Hi, Brandy. How are you? I'm good, Mr. Ramsey. How are you doing today? Better than I deserve.

What's up? Well, I've been married for 25 years, and I don't work at the time. I'm taking care of my grandson, which my husband totally, you know, is on board with that. But I get no money unless I have to ask for it. and we are debt-free, we owe nothing, and I just feel like anything I say, he doesn't want to take my advice or anything. Like, I feel like we need to sell our house now because it's a bigger house, and we don't really need all the room, and we can sell this, and we have a really good life, I mean, I feel like. I don't know, I just plug his daughter instead of his wife. Oof.

How can we help? Well, I just, I don't know. I mean, what should I, like, we ended up separating, like, two years ago, and I found out actually what he was worth, and we was worth. Like, I don't know anything. If he was to pass away tomorrow, I wouldn't know what to do. I don't know what's in his bank account. I have no access to anything.

My name's not on his business. My name's not on his debit, you know, a card. I can't use his debit card. And we've been married for 25 years. I'm like, you know, and it really aggravated me when we separated because my attorney, you know, gave me all this information on, you know what he's got and i was just like i feel like i deserve that you know more where's the marriage now and we're together and i take care of my grandson i can work like if i you know

and i even said do you want me to work he's like no i want you take care of our grandson you know i think it's wonderful that we can do that but it's like i don't get paid for taking care of my grandson so i'm having to always ask him for money you know does it give you money when you ask What's that transaction line? He does. Yeah, he does, but he only gives me money for what I need. Like, if I'm going to get groceries, he'll give me like $200. I'm like, $200 don't buy anything, you know, and my fear is I'm going to get up to the counter

and not have enough money and have to put everything back. And I know he's got the money to give me. That's what's so, you know, it makes me so aggravated at them. Well, what happened over a two-year, or you separated two years ago, what happened as a result of separating because it doesn't sound like anything has changed? I hadn't, no, and honestly, I feel like we got back together. Why are you not still separated if nothing changed? I know.

Well, financially, it was so expensive. I'm having to pay attorney fees, which now he had to pay me $750 a week alimony during that time, but I had to get a place to live, so I didn't know how expensive things was because I was, you know, we didn't have no debt, so I went from not having no debt to having, like, you know, $3,500 a month that I had to pay, you know, for my rent. So you went back to jail because it was too expensive to be free. That's what I'm hearing. Yeah, I just love them so much.

It's crazy. Do you? So why did you call us? I'm so confused. What do you want us to do? Well, I just feel like, am I in the wrong for wanting, you know, have to have access? No, you're not in the wrong, but you're not doing anything about it. I know.

That's what I called you because my husband. I can't do anything about it. You've got to do something about it. What can I do? What should I do? I think you've got to decide if you want to be married. to someone that treats you this way. And you're going to have to sit down.

My recommendation would be that the two of you sit down with a good marriage counselor and that Bubba hears for the first time in his 25 freaking years that he's mistreating his wife. And he feels like he says I don't manage money. I don't care what he says. You actually care what he says, but I don't. I know. So you need to not care what he says.

You need to go see a marriage counselor because he sucks as a husband. He's a horrible husband. I agree because I had to go to the doctor yesterday. Darling, you're just going to talk my arm off and do nothing. I can tell. I can tell exactly what's going to happen with you. So you've got to decide what you're going to do, okay? And quit telling me stories about him.

Are you going to actually get on the phone and call a marriage counselor and go sit down with one? You need to do that today. And if you don't do that, quit telling people stories about him. Shut up. live with it okay if you're not going to do nothing about it shut up about it but if you're going to do something then we'll pray for you and back you because and yes you're correct honey that the situation's weird and he's not a good husband he's mistreating his wife and the problem is he's probably not a bad guy he's probably just doesn't know how to do it he probably doesn't know how to be

a good husband he thinks he's taking care of you he may be that dumb and so you you know We're going to have to educate him and teach him that, you know, this is, this is emotional financial abuse, dude. And so you need to involve your wife in the decisions, let her have the dignity of being one of the two adults in the household. And, but that's a marriage counseling thing, honey. I can't dictate that. I don't have a magic wand over here to tap him on his little head and say, that's it, dude. Now you're magically healed. I can't do that from here.

But you're going to have to work on it. And I don't think you're going to. You just talk about it all the time. Yeah, you've married a control freak, and then you've let him get more and more control over 25 years, and then you've summoned up some guts, which I admire two years ago, but then it ended up being a pump fake. Yeah. You just pump faked, or he called your bluff. He played to your greatest fears as my guest, not knowing the details, and you caved. And you've convinced yourself that I love him so much, and I don't think that's the case.

That's enabling. That's just bull crap. I love him so much I'm willing to be abused. Yeah. Come on. He's warped. I don't think he's dumb. I think he's warped because he's really unhealthy, and I'm not attacking him, and I'm not making

excuses for him, but you've got to shake him. He needs to be shaken. Yeah. If this guy was my buddy, I'd be boxing his ears, man. I'd be giving him a hard time. That'd be fun. That'd be an interesting conversation, wouldn't it? Of course, he wouldn't have been my buddy because he wouldn't have been my buddy because

that would have worked out. That wouldn't have worked out either. John is in Nashville. Hey, John, how you doing? Do you all over yourself, Mr. Ramsey. Better than I deserve. how can we help um well i'm having some issues i'm 20 years old um i have a one-year-old kid and a wife um and i'm in so like deep get to the point where i think i'm going to have to go

bankrupt what kind of debt have you got honey um i have 32 000 a student debts for my wife she's currently in school um and then i have so you're running up you have 32,000 you have $32,000 in student debt and you're continuing to run up student loan debt? No, so that's... Who's paying for her school? I am. She's a stay-at-home mom. With what?

We have a one-year-old. With me working. Oh, okay. And what other debt do you have, sure? And then I have two vehicle loans out. And on my truck, I'm two months behind, and I owe... How much do you owe in your truck? I owe 11,700.

Okay, and what do you owe on the other car? What do you owe on the other car? 10,000. Okay, and what other debts do you have? Credit cards? I have 3K and personal loans, and then about 1,000 on credit card. Okay, all right. And what do you make sure?

I make $3,500 a month. Okay. All right. Okay. you're not bankrupt. You're 20 years old. You have a baby and you're scared. And you've done some dumb things that have put you in a corner, but it's not bankrupted you, okay?

You have cars that you can't afford. Okay? You can't afford these cars. Obviously, that's why you're behind on the truck. You do not have any organization to your money, no budget or anything else. And student loans are not bankruptable. And you can't bankrupt on the cars unless you pay the bill. And if you don't pay the bill, you give up the car and bank.

Yeah. So if you have no cars and you still got the student loans, you could be bankrupt, but it really wouldn't do you much good. You could just sell the cars and still have the student loan and not be bankrupt. Gotcha. What's the truck worth? Whenever they pulled it, I had the loan out for $12, $750. What's the truck worth? It's probably worth $9,000. Okay, good. And who do you owe the money? to the bank local bank okay and what about the $10,000 car what's it worth um it's we paid 16 for it um I gave you know 6,000 down good you need to sell that car this week okay and your wife can't be in school you can't afford to pay for school right now when your truck payments are behind your wife's not going to school you don't do that okay you got

to get organized here. We're going to help you, man. I've been where you are and been scared with a little baby and didn't know what to do. We're going to put a Ramsey coach in your corner at my expense. We're going to pay for it and we'll put you into Financial Peace University and you and you and your wife are going to do that. You're going to have to sell everything and you're going to work like a maniac and you can turn this around. And we can show you how. You're going to be okay, son. Buying or selling a home is a big deal, and you want an expert in your corner, not somebody who got their license three weeks ago and happens to be your Aunt Sally.

Bad idea. You need like a real, real estate agent, like somebody that knows what the flip they're doing. Hello. The Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find a high-octane, high-protein top agent that you can trust that we trust to make your home a blessing and not a burden. It's easy. You compare the agent profiles. can interview them. You can choose the right one to work with among the Ramsey

trusted bunch. To find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free, go to ramsysolutions.com slash agent or click the link in the show notes. Blake's with us in Asheville, North Carolina. Hi, Blake. How are you? I'm good, Mr. Ramsey. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So, I'm starting a new job next week. I'm leaving my current job tomorrow. Wow, cool. Big deal? Big raise? Yeah, big deal. On paper, it's more money, which I'm excited about. Why is it on paper and not real?

Because it's not a month bank account yet. Oh, because it hadn't happened yet. Okay. Yeah, I thought that was a congressman on Meet the Press for a second with that answer. On paper. On paper. The promise is that we're going to get a raise. Okay, I got you. All right.

Yeah. About $1,900 more. more a month, guaranteed. Okay, cool. Starting out 25 an hour. It's four days a week, 12-hour shifts, long shifts, but I get the whole weekend off, which is a blessing from what I'm currently doing.

Okay. So I'm just kind of looking. I want to start investing money. I've not had any wiggle room in my financial situation to start investing. So I'm kind of just kind of looking where and what I need to do to start investing and by the time I'm 60. Yeah, you'd have some money.

Good for you. So do you have a 401k at the new place? I'll have to set one up after 90 days. Okay. Do the Roth 401K. Roth, okay. That means it's going to grow tax-free, but you're going to pay taxes on the money that you put into it now,

which is whooped-de-up. No big deal. And they're going to match it probably, and if they do, they match it with non-Ross. which is okay and pick and pick good growth stock mutual funds you can go back and listen to this later if you want to but there's four types of mutual funds we invest in i invest in can invest in what we teach growth growth and income aggressive growth and international those are the four categories you're looking for and you're looking for long track records five years

or more on those preferably 10 years or more but long track records and so if you've got two growth funds you can look at them and go okay this one has a 10 year track record and it is average 12 percent and this one has an eight year track record and it is average 11 percent oh I'm going with the other one okay you know what I'm saying that's how that's how you're looking at it's not real hard and they can they can show you every bit of that in the HR stuff with your 401k when the 90 days comes up and we recommend you put 15 percent of your income not more not less into your 401. Now, that is if you are debt-free and have your emergency fund in place of three to six months of expenses.

Is that true? That is not. Okay. Then we don't need to start investing yet. We need a first investment is to get the debt paid off so that you've got the money to invest. Okay. How much debt have you got? I have 36,000 in student loans.

Okay. I'm going to attack that like my hair is on fire. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. in a good, I'm going to be in a good position next month, especially to start attacking that. Yeah, I mean, you got an extra 1,900 plus you can squeeze your budget down. So $3,000 in times 12 is $36,000. You're done in one year. Thanks.

You got a $2,000 raise, and I'm pulling another $1,000 out of your party budget, and you're going to get out of debt in a year. And those weekends. So you've got some time there. Yeah, go make some money on the weekends. Let's do it even faster. Yeah, I do, I do have a weekend kind of gig. Cool. What do you make?

It's just depending on what it is. I work in an event production, so I do. I got my degree in theater focusing in lighting design. So I do like concerts and weddings, corporate events. And just depending on the position, it depends on the... Yeah, I'd be working all the time for a short period of time. If they don't have one of those gigs going, I'd be doing something else, okay? Lots of stuff going on in your area there in Asheville, lots of things you can lay your hand to. a temporary thing because the faster you get out of debt the faster you get to invest the

faster you're wealthy hello yeah so that that's the way we're looking at this thing that's how we're going to go at it really good question sir congratulations on moving on up i like it i like it i like it by the way just got to say this real quick because we continue to see this stuff on social media and in traditional media about uh it poll came out from gallop just came out yesterday. The American people losing faith in capitalism is the American dream alive and well and all this crap that gets put out there. And I just want to point out, here's a young man who is on the precipice of realizing the American dream. And he's calling in it with a question like this. So I just want to contrast all the stuff you hear versus here's a real young man

who's got it figured out and he's going to get debt free and he's going to be a multimillionaire because he's doing this early on. So this is a separate narrative. if than what you hear on TikTok and Facebook and all the things, this is a real deal here. So I applaud you, Blake, because you are, the numbers change when people do. Guys, when you've been reading these things, you're being lied to. Yeah, that's right. The communist professors have put out the poll, the capitalism is dead.

And the communist professors are on payroll at the college that was financed with your freaking student loans. You need to keep in mind where this crap is coming from. Yeah. Okay. So capitalism is not dead. As a matter of fact, it is the best way in human history. At this particular moment in time, you have, if you are right now in your 20s, you have the most opportunity to build wealth the fastest of any time in any period in any location since man began walking the earth beside Eve. Old Adam, remember him? Yeah. Since then, all the way to now, this is the best moment in time where I in my 20s right

now broke, I could be a millionaire so freaking fast it would blind you. There is so much opportunity. But if you sit around and suck your communist thumb and swine about capitalism and wages and house prices while living in your mother's basement typing on your $2,000 iPhone, instead of working your little butt off,

then you deserve what you get because you're signing up for victim mentality. We don't do victim around here. We do victor. Blake is a victor. That's exactly right. He's going to get it. Poster child.

That guy right there, man, he's a stud. Let me tell you, if he's single and you've got a daughter over in Asheville, you need to try to tell her to find him because that one's a keeper right there that guy's going places right you don't want your daughter marrying a dreamer they'll be in your basement or or you know i'm going to i'm going to be i'm going to what do you do i'm an activist i pick it against capitalism yeah with that god help me geez get away from my kid because you know the captains of industry are looking on the streets of chicago in new york and l.a for all those

placards those poster boards are making a difference yeah it's just repeat You think I make a single decision at Ramsey based on those morons? Absolutely zero, okay? Just zero. So nobody does. People that are doing things don't have time to watch that garbage. That's right. So, yeah, I get aggravated.

But sure, that's a good point, Ken, that truthfully, the digital age, you can just decide. And I'm in business. And a minute and a half later, you have a website and shop. a file, set the stinking thing up and you start selling your little idea. And then when it fails, you can start another one next week. I mean, it's just the most wonderful time to be alive and make money and help people. Yeah. It's an amazing moment in time. Blake just got a promotion and he has got a side hustle on the weekend. If he can do it, you can do it. But he's been destroyed by $36,000 worth of student loan debt. He's hopeless. He'll never make it. He's the system is rigged

against poor Blake. James is in Oklahoma. Hi, James. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, we recently came into an inheritance, and we were wondering what to do with the money.

We have a small farm, and we owe, we still owe on it. and that's it. But we didn't know if we should invest or pay it off. Okay. And how much of an inheritance did you receive, sir? $700,000, and there's roughly $330,000 left. That's coming in additionally. So you're going to get a million total.

And how much is owed on the farm? The total land is $336, but the $1,000. house is separate and my student loans. How much are your student loans? My debt, $46,000. Okay, so $400,000 clears everything out of a million? Roughly $600 will clear everything. I'm sorry, I got lost.

You said you had $340,000 on the land and $40,000 student loans. Is there a house loan, too? Yes, there's a house loan, too. Oh, oh, separate. Okay. So you could be debt-free for $600,000, still have $400,000 left over when the smoke clears. Okay, cool. Why would you not do that? Well, we were talking, our financial advisor was wanting to invest the $600,000 now, and then,

so we just didn't know if we should invest. And he was saying not to pay off the house because of the percentage, and I just didn't really know what to do to get debt-free and then worry about investing. Yeah. What's your household income? I look for $200,000. Okay. So if you had zero payments, you'd have lots of money to invest, wouldn't you?

Yes, sir. Yeah. I think you need a new financial advisor. Yes, sir. Yeah. This one sucks. So, yeah. Honestly, I mean...

We have cows, too, that help make the farm payment as well. Well, that's good. That's good. The cows make money in your pocket. pocket if you don't have a payment, right? That's true. Okay. Yes.

All right. Yeah, this idea that wealth is built from borrowed money is mythology when we actually look at the hard data. We studied 10,167 actual millionaires. The number of them that said the way I became a millionaire was my financial advisor told me to invest with him instead of paying off my, farm was precisely zero. 10,167 millionaires

disagree with your financial advisor. Yes. That's what I'm saying. Okay. And so if you take the freed up cash flow that you will have and you quit borrowing money the rest of your life and you have, you're going to have approaching a $2 million net worth when this all happens and a $200,000 income,

you're going to be worth 20, 30, 40, 40, 40, million dollars dude when this is over i mean if you'll just stay out of debt and keep steadily investing and steadily being generous and paying cash for things from this point forward and let me ask you who who passed away that left you this money uh my dad he was a big so he was a big he's a big what fan of yours oh okay so well regardless if he was a fan of mine he's probably a fan of mine because he probably did the stuff I'm talking about long before he even, before he even heard of me. And then he just found me and I agreed with him.

Does that sound right? Yeah. In other words, it's not me. It was him. And I think if he's in heaven and you pay off your farm, I seem smiling. What do you think? No, yes, sir. I completely agree.

He'll also be smiling when you fire this financial advisor. Yeah. By the way, by the way, that's the issue. you. This financial advisor, you've trusted up into this point, and he gave you this advice, and yet something in you said, I think I should call Dave today. It doesn't ring with what dad taught me. So I trust the guy. And this is dad's money I'm getting. I'm going to honor him with this legacy. And this guy, yeah, it doesn't feel right. See, you can't be afraid.

The tuning fork of your heart. Yeah. So disappoint the financial advisor. That's what's going on here. Oh, I'm happy to disappoint this. I know you are, but a lot of our callers, we've got to get them to a point where we realize, hey, you already answered this question before you call us. Here's the other thing. Unless I miss my guess, this guy that I'm talking to on the phone right now is net worth before the inheritance was greater than the financial advisors. Guaranteed.

The dirt, the cows, everything, all of it. This is just saying. Caroline's in Colorado. Hi, Caroline. How are you? Hi, I'm good, thanks. Good. help? I'm just, I'm feeling a little discouraged. A year ago, my husband and I were on

baby step four. We had two full-time jobs, three additional income streams. But in the last 12 months, my husband lost his job, we're down to income streams. We had to deplete our emergency savings, use some retirement funds and go under debt. And we are, well, I guess I can explain that. You didn't have to, but you did. Why? We were trying to get out of debt by selling one of our properties. You got into debt, you said. Yes, because it took us longer to sell the property and we had to put more into it to sell it than we were expecting to.

But why did you not just go get the job and replace the income? I'm sorry, which job? The one he lost. Oh, he did. He found another job, but he had to take a pay cut. Okay. There's a lot of have-toes in this story. All right. And, okay, how can I best help, darling?

Well, so we are net worth millionaires, but we're struggling to get by a month to month, and we recently sold one of our rental properties, like I said, to get us out of debt. And we're just out of crossroads and unsure of what the next best move is. Okay. If you have a net worth, so is your household expenses too high? Yes. okay so what are we doing to cut those I mean I've cut back on everything

what's it take for you to live a year rough well including the mortgages that we have it's around $15,000 a month okay so you're not worth millionaires but you've leveraged yourself into real estate and gone broke you need to be selling every piece of real estate you have except your personal residence

you're not cash flowing on this minute your million dollar net worth is not paying you enough to justify the expenses that you have okay so but you've got debt associated with all this net worth so the net worth is invalid okay but my my husband's income isn't enough for us to live off of them we need additional it is if you don't need $15,000 a month to live most people don't that's ridiculous are you catching what we're saying what's the biggest chunk of the 15 give us the real numbers uh i mean the two mortgages obviously so what are those two mortgages um one is 4600 and one is 3400 right so sell them right well and that's that's what i'm saying is we did sell a property and we have yeah but i'm not talking about the

property you already sold. I'm talking about the one that's killing you right now. You have houses you can't afford. Okay. It's, um, I mean, it's worth 1.8 million and we have about 250,000 months. That's wonderful, but it's killing you. And, and then do what with the money? Buy a paid for house that has no mortgages. Okay. You know, you, you've got debt that's,

so high that it is invalidate, that is creating personal consumption debt on real estate. You have two houses, neither of one of which are rentals, neither one of which are investment properties. You are consuming $8,000, $9,000 a month in mortgage payments. Am I understanding you correctly? Yes, sir. I mean, we have a third rent. I know, but those properties right there are creating the $15,000 a month

nut you want to crack, correct? Yeah. And so you bought houses you can't afford, honey. That's what we're saying. And so get your dadgum outgo where it fits within your income. And that's called selling these extra houses. You've been living higher on the hog than you can afford. Or than you can afford now anyway.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey, personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Chris is in Wyoming. Hi, Chris, or are you? Good, yourself. Better than I deserve. What's up? I just wanted to give you guys a call.

I mean, kind of going through some struggles and with debt, and I got fired for my job on Wednesday. Whoa. So. That sucks. What happened? But they gave me an evaluation, and I guess I didn't score high enough. And I think they fired me because of my hearing issues because I was born partially deaf. And so I think that's part of the reason why they fired me because I shouldn't understand things.

Yeah, you're going to speak directly into your phone, sir. You got muffled on me there. But you had trouble understanding things? What was the job? Yeah, I was working at a casino. I was doing surveillance, and they just am kind of looking at cameras. I'm answering phones, and I think I just wasn't understanding a lot of stuff that I was being told.

And they didn't tell me they fired me because of my hearing issues, but I kind of think that's what it was. Well, the reason I'm asking this follow-up is because this is going to inform maybe some advice we give you going forward. When they went through the evaluation, whether or not they told you that or not, Did you agree that you weren't meeting their evaluation points? Yeah, I do, I do. Listen, you're not speaking directly into your phone again, honey.

You don't have to do that. It's muffled. Yeah, so, yeah, I do agree that I was having a hard time understanding things that they were, the tasks that they were giving me. Okay, okay. And so your biggest crisis is you're unemployed. Yeah. I'm unemployed and my wife can't work because she's she got a she tore her body she tore

her femur back when she was in the military and she's using two canes and she hasn't worked for so long and so it's just it's been hard to trying to take care of her myself and our three kids and are you aware of are you aware of what kind of work that you can do where the hearing is not going to be that big of an issue? For like 15 to 20 plus years, I was doing like physical work, like warehouse type work because it really been involved a whole lot of, I mean, I started to hear things, but it wasn't as bad as, you know, having to, like, I didn't have to like answer phones or any type of thing like that.

So I've been trying to get back into that again. And with winter hours coming up, it's just kind of been more harder to get into that again. How did you lose your hearing? I was born. I was born. It was genetic. Okay. Do you have hearing aids? Yeah, I do. I went through the Wyoming workforce. But they're not working?

They were working. They're working. They've been a big help. But even after I got the hearing age with the casino, I was still having a hard time. so I try to do everything the best I can and I seem to still have a hard time hearing Well, the casino is a very noisy place And even with hearing aids, that can be a problem Well, I'm worried about your location

It seems when you said winter hours That you have limited opportunities Due to where you are Is that what I'm understanding? Yeah, I mean, I'm in here in Cheyenne And they usually when winter starts coming up That's when they kind of, a lot of places, you know, cut back hours because they're fully staffed, and it's harder to get into places.

Sure. How much money do you need to make? What's the bottom line that would just take care of you guys, just your basic expenses? What do you need? I mean, my rent, it's my rent, my electric. I don't have to worry about, like, gas or anything. A number. Do you got a number, a monthly number that you need to live?

And in all honesty, I mean, I honestly don't know. Can't really figure out a number. It's usually about, I think it's like $3,000 a month. That's usually where all my bills are at. Because I got two vehicles and then, you know, my kids taking care of the expenses for them too and the food and all that stuff and um you have two car payments yeah i have two car payments i have um i have uh my truck payment which is seven hundred forty dollars and then my car payment's 360 i don't know what in the world working with walmart um i got fired from them the same year

in january why did you get fired from walmart um because of my attendance because of the wife's medical issues with her leg and then my mental health I was leaving a lot and I was calling off a lot because my mental health and I ended up. After I got fired, I ended up in the mental health. What's the nature of your mental health problem? Well, when my daughter was born, she No, your mental health problem. What's the nature of your mental health problem? I'm depressed.

Okay. All right. And And is your wife on military disability? No, she's been trying to fight with the VA for several years. Are you not getting anywhere? Are you on any kind of disability? No, I'm not. I try to get on Social Security, and they denied me because I finally got the job at the casino, and they denied me because I was making too much.

That would be true. would be obvious, yeah. Okay. So what we've got to do is we've got to figure out a career where you can make some basic income and son, you got to sell your truck. A $780 truck in this picture that you have painted for the last few minutes is insanity. It's nuts. So you've got to get rid of the $780 payment and you guys could go down to one car for that matter. Your wife doesn't work. She's on two kings. I don't think she needs to be driving a lot. So you got And then you're going to have to pick up work doing a lot of other stuff until you can land something that's stable. Any good suggestions, Ken?

Well, the reason I went that direction of what have you done or what kind of work is because you're going to have to get back into that space. And what I heard was a lot of limitations. But right now, you can't accept limitations. I understand depression is real. That's a real thing. I get it. But you're going to have to fight through that because you are. the person that this entire household is relying on.

So, yeah, manufacturing, warehouse work, I'm showing up, and I'm going to go back to Walmart, and I'm going to say, hey, here's what happened to me, I'm going to power through it. I mean, anything and everything right now, two and three jobs, you have got to get enough money that may be seen, not maybe, I'd see a therapist. I'd scrape enough money together where you get some help because a professional can help you with some tools to power through the depression. And this is desperation time.

Yeah. I'm sorry you're facing all this. So sorry. I'm 100% sure we've got to get your income up. And I'm 100% sure you need to sell your truck. And when you do those two things, you create a sustainable situation mathematically. And that gives you the opportunity to work through the emotional struggles that you got. So keep it up, dude.

Keep pushing. Keep fighting. You can do it. The Ramsey Show Question of the day is brought to you by Y-Refi. You may think no one can help with your defaulted private student loans, but Y-R-R-R-R-R-F-I is different. They work with borrowers in tough spots without judgment. Check them out at Y-R-R-R-E-F-Y.com. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.

Remsey, not in all states. Today's question comes from Carlos in Texas, and he gives us some context from a Newsweek article that I'll read first, and then his question, the federal government will accept Venmo payments from citizens who want to help pay off the national debt. The Treasury has begun accepting Venmo transactions as contributions toward the national debt, which currently stands at $36 trillion. I made it through that, James, without laughing. But now Carlos' question based on this excerpt, what is your opinion on the new option of being able to voluntarily Venmo the U.S. government to help pay down the national debt?

Well, my opinion is, comes from one of my favorite movies where Anthony Hopkins plays this old man who's had a stroke. And now it hits, I said it's one of my favorite movies. What is that movie where Brad Pitt's in it and he's the old and they're coming for his land? somebody bail me out James what is that movie now Legends of the Fall Legends of the Fall and they come over

and his son comes up to old Anthony Hopkins who suffered a stroke and he has a chalkboard around his neck that's how he communicates with his family and they say dad

they're offered us land the government's offering us money for our land and he says his mouth is all crooked and he leans in he says screw

scrum scrum that's my answer that's my answer are you kidding me the government came up with this idea that we're going to Venmo my money when they already taxed me too much, Dave, my blood pressure is unhealthy. It's not good for you.

Take the ball away from me. This is bad for you, Ken. I can tell. It's just not, you know, your mental health now, Ken. Dave, I need to take the rest of the show off. My mental health is too fragile right now. I've not heard this. Have you heard of this?

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's wonderful because there's always some idiot out there. who says that everyone should pay their fair share, and I would be willing to pay more. Someone always says that when they're talking about tax the rich, right? Oh, sure, I know. And so I always wanted them, you know, we had that argument many years ago here in the state of Tennessee. We ran a governor out of office that I tried to bring in a state income tax, and he was confused,

and the people here didn't want that. So glorious. Anyway, anyway. So, yeah, but there were all these Libby's that were saying, you know, like, oh, well, I would pay more. And I'm like, well, you can. Just send them a check, you doofus. Right. And so if you want to pay more because you're just think that this is the whole thing,

such a great operation, then sent, yeah, sign up for Venmo, baby, have at it. But the rest of us who have something akin to common sense would be like, Scray! Right. It's a dumbest idea I've ever heard. You've got to be kidding. Here's the thing. 49% of Americans pay zero federal income tax.

Did you know that? 51% of us carry the whole thing. They pay zero federal income tax. So please don't talk to me about fair share ever again. Okay, I'll help you with this. So everybody ought to be paying something. Yeah. I don't care if you make $5 and you pay a nickel.

I don't care. You ought to be paying a little something. Everybody pays a little something. And, you know, and so we can start arguing about flat tax now. And that would be fair. If I pay 10% of my income and you pay 10% of your income and I make a lot more, so I pay a lot more. That's fair. The way it is now is not fair.

so but it's not equitable but anyway so yeah if you want to pay some more into the government I think if you're the type of person that believes this is a good idea I think you should do it you know what it's actually true if you're that stupid then you shouldn't have any money anyway so go ahead and send it to the same organization that ran up the debt to 36 trillion and steaming towards 40 trillion it's the most it's just nonsensical so sure Yeah, you should, yeah, you should do that. You know, they just did that to just, just for you and me. Is that a fake question?

Is that just to see if I mean. 100% real, but I knew it would be gold with y'all too. I feel like I need a whole bottle of Pepsi at AC just chewing on them after that question. Yikes. Rochelle is in Texas. Hi, Rochelle. How are you? Hey, it's not Rochelle.

She chickened out. I'm her husband. Okay. So what's the, what's the chicken husband's name? What's your name? The chicken husband's name's Charles. Hi, Charles. How are you, man?

I'm good, and thank you for taking our call. I've been listening to you guys for a long time. Thank you. How can we help, sir? So I'm active duty military, and my wife and I, we're going to be getting transferred out to Hawaii for our next unit. We're kind of at an impasse right now. We're finished with Baby Step 5, and we're considering buying a house.

But as it sits right now, with the math that we've done, it seems like buying a house in Hawaii is going to tie up so much of our liquidity. It just seems like it'll do better invested in good growth stock mutual funds. We're hoping to get your opinion on that. Thank you for your service. Yeah. We appreciate you. And the way we coach the military and we coach a lot of folks in the military over the last 30 years is there are sometimes, and when you make a move for two years, that you will buy a house, but most of the time you shouldn't.

most of the time you should rent and here's the math and the reason most markets most real estate markets on average do not increase enough during the two-year period of time that you're there to to be able to sell it and make money you will lose money on the transaction and most real estate markets move slowly now you're moving into Oahu I assume yep that's Yeah. And so, you know, the Wahoo market has a lot of military saturation, a ton of it. And so there's always a good amount of military type housing for sale, which means it's harder to sell it when you get ready to move. Now, if you've got the money to play in a non-military neighborhood, so to speak, that maybe you could, the thing, if it goes up in value fast enough and you can sell it quick enough, Those are the two variables. You can make money, then it's okay to buy.

But probably in Oahu, you're probably going to be better off renting. I agree. We were doing some stuff with SEAL team, and they're in the San Diego market, right? San Diego real estate generally is going up very quickly and generally sells very quickly, and it's not saturated with the military. And so that's a market. Virginia Beach is another one. The market you could move into and out of and make,

money because the only thing in the entire area is military you're always going to have a bunch of military people that moved off in their houses are for sale or for rent and it screws up the market and makes it hard to sell and so you can end up with 273 days on the market nine months to get out of the stupid thing and you're going to lose your butt so i i think you're going to when you investigate oahu you're going to figure out that you're going to lose money if you buy for two years. I got it. And also, an additional worry that we have is our next unit will almost guaranteed be

Kodiak, Alaska, and my pay is going to drop pretty significantly off that Oahu pay. So with the house not being paid off, which again, we calculated it out. I don't think we'll be able to pay it off in time. If it's an $800,000 house, for example. Yep. when we go to Kodiak, we wouldn't be able to make that work. The pay would just be too little. Exactly.

And again, Kodiak is going to be a lot of military in that market, right? Right. Real strong military consideration. And so it's, yeah, so thank you for your service. But what I'm going to be doing is piling up money. And when you are stationed in an area that makes, that is a vibrant real estate, state market that is not saturated with military you can make money then it's okay to buy otherwise i would rent and pile up money for when i retire and then i'm going to from the

military and then i'm going to go by when i hit my 20 year or whatever it is you decide to walk on it again thank you for your service if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and you can't get ahead join one of our free every dollar trainings jade warshall rachel cruise george camel our ramsay personalities are doing trainings every week this month they're all hosted by one of the ramsay personalities and we're going to show you how to stick to a budget find thousands of dollars of margin using every dollar so you can get out of debt when you do a budget you feel like you got to raise that's what amounts to and we're going to show you how that works exactly and you can ask questions during the live q and a sign up for free at ramsie solution

dot com slash webinar brittany is in huntsville hi brittany how are you i'm good how are you better than i deserve how can i help um my husband and i just started financial peace university and downloaded every dollar and we are struggling with whether or not we should do the snowball out of order um so right now other than mortgage our only bets are about 22 000 on my vehicle that i drive and about $31,000 on my student loans, which are broken up into seven different loan groups. So the loans would technically be the smaller debts that we should snowball first. But I am pregnant and due in six months. My current car won't safely fit two car seats for our toddler and new baby.

So I feel like I should focus on the car first and was just wondering what you all think on that. So you owe how much on the car? $32,000 and it won't hold car. seats. 22,000. Oh, 22. It was a RAV.

Yeah, 22. What's it worth? It's worth about 22 with trade in value. Kelly Blue Book said we could get 24, 25. What's your household income? About $150,000. I'm currently a stay-at-home mom, so that's all my husband. Okay.

And what does your husband drive? He has a lease deal through his. job. He's an engineer for Toyota. So he's... What does she drive? A tundra truck. Okay. What year is your RAV-4? 20-21, I think. Okay. So who told you that the RAV-4 cannot accommodate two car seats safely? So I guess I told me that because our current car seat and our infant car seat for my toddler that we had. We just upgraded his. Neither of those will fit behind the driver's side without touching the seat and

they're supposed to be a one to two inch gap. Well, the manufacturer says that you can actually, on the 2019 and later models, you can put three car seats in there. So I'm not trying to counterpoint you, but you've created this narrative that's completely false. Yeah, anyway, y'all, I'm fine with selling the Rav. Won't you just sell it and buy a $10,000 car? okay that's a van buy a $10,000 minivan okay and that reduces your debt from 22 to 10 well we

so the thing is it's like we just started doing Ramsey's solutions financial planning so we have $10,000 like we could buy $2,000 right go buy a $10,000 car and sell the rev and you got rid of $22,000 with a debt. Yay. Okay. Okay. Perfect. A $10,000 minivan, though. Not a $30,000. Yeah, that's what I thought we were leaning towards. No, no, no. So we were just looking at it because we were trying to figure out we thought we were upside down on the car. It turns out we aren't, which is good. That's awesome. Yeah, just get out of it. And then all you've got to do is fight through the student loans and you're driving a $10,000 car and you make $150 and you got a baby. This is awesome, yeah. Okay. Yeah, but just fight through the student loans. then, but you always use these things as a reason to go backwards.

The reason we were all, Ken and I were both dancing over here on the other side of the microphone is 90% of the time that somebody calls with your question, Brittany, they want to move up in car. Yeah, that's what I thought. Exactly what I thought. I just want a bigger vehicle. Yeah. I don't know.

I don't blame you. That little rab is a tiny little, it's a tiny little wishes it was a Jeep car, yeah. And so, you know, it's, yeah, and I don't blame you. I mean, it's kind of weird. Thinking about babies in the back of, it's weird in my mind. So I don't mind, yeah, but move down in car and take your 10 grand and let's accelerate this whole process, okay? Okay. You get to accomplish both goals in a positive way.

Okay. That's what I would do. Yeah. And I'm glad you gave perspective because that's what I thought we were being set up for. I did too. I did too. That's what most people do. And we have to be careful about because everybody that calls is not most people.

So. Hey, listen, full confession, my mom held me in her arms. That's how old I am. I know, yeah. So I don't do well with the car seats are too big. What is happening? But the RAV is a tiny little. I get it. I get it. It's a tiny little. I get it. I get it. I was wrong. It's a Jeep that needs you add water to. I mean, it's too small. A chia car? It's a chia car. It's a chia car. I like that. I like that. Grant is in Montana. Hey, Grant, what's up? hey how are you great man how can we help you're taking my call sure um so i'm looking for some help or some guidance on uh whether the balance whether uh taking care of my father is a priority or building a life uh with my girlfriend uh slash soon to be wife um i started my life over at 25 got sober built a career for myself and uh about two years ago i had to move in with

My father, he's disabled, not able to take care of his home and property. How old is he? 68. And what is the nature of his disability? He's confined to a wheelchair. He has some spine issues that surgery helped. About five years now. And you've been with him for five years now?

No, I've been with him for two years. Two years ago, the HOA sent him a letter. I had been mowing the lawn and taking the trash out and doing what I could, but I lived about a half hour away. And so we just made the decision. Are you planning to live with him for the next 10 years? That was my plan. I was single at the time that I made this decision.

And then, yeah, girl came along. So now you're not planning to live there for 10 years. So we have to have a plan for dad and a plan for your life. They don't have to, they don't have, it doesn't have to be either or it should be both. But the plan for dad might not be that you live there. It might be that we figure out some other way that he gets cared for. Sure. So what we've done is, is in preparation for that plan or whatnot.

He spent a lot of his retirement. He retired pretty early. He retired when I was about 15. I'm 34 now. So he spent a lot of his retirement. Sort of the big thing he has left is the house. But we took the house and put it in a trust of which I'm the beneficiary now in preparation for him being moved on to Medicaid at some point. You understand Medicaid is welfare?

Yes. And you understand that welfare nursing home is a different level of care? Yes, I do. Okay. Yeah, we're not. So you're planning to put him in a Medicaid nursing home so you can keep the house? That was not my plan. That was what he wanted to do in case he had to go on Medicaid because they have like a five-year look back.

They sure do. They sure do. Yeah. And the trust doesn't help at all. all. I can undo the trust on the five-year look back. So it's got to be five years. Has it been five years? Yeah. No, we just put the house into the trust last year. So you've got four years that you're going to continue this if you're going to continue this. Probably not going to work. I think you're selling the house so that your dad can use his money to care for him so that you can,

and he gets a sustainable situation. He can't live in this house without help, and he doesn't have the money for the help and you're not the help anymore well that's that's where i i struggle i don't um i don't no dad no dad that is a good man wants his kid to have no life when he's sitting on a house that the money from the house will take care of him you're supposed to go on and have a life young man and um you can take care of your dad that you can set up a situation where your dad is cared for with the equity from this house, moving into a one level house, a situation where he's got care with the money that's the equity, because he's blown his retirement. And then you go on and have a life in the process. These things are not incongruent.

E.J.'s in Philadelphia. Hi, E.J., how are you? I'm great. How are you? than I deserve. What's up? So my fiance and I are getting married in about a month and we're about to receive $20,000 as a gift not for the wedding but

because we're getting married. And we wanted to know Yeah, yeah, it really is. And we wanted to know what would be the best direction or the best place for us to put that money. So just for some context

we just finished school her last December and me over this past summer and we just started working full time and the only debt that we have is $18,000 in student loan and so we're trying to figure out if we should save that money and snowball our debt or move into a better place or whatever, and I just wanted to know what you think would be a good direction for us to go in with that money. Yeah. The problem with this is it's when you get a gift like this and a situation like this, it's $20,000 and it feels emotionally like it's $200,000.

Right. I mean, it's just exciting and wonderful and what a wonderful, generous gift. And then if you want to do something that's non-sexy but smart. with it, it's hard because it's emotional. And so, you know, the answer to what we would teach you at Ramsey to do with any money that you get from any source is to work the baby steps. Why? Because that's the shortest path to wealth and put you in a position to do anything else

you want to do, which is generosity, change your family tree, buy a house, all those kinds of things. And so we're always going to do that. But with a gift like this, it's very hard because this has got such sizzle on it that it's different than, you know, Dave, I got $20,000 in a mutual fund. What do I do with it? That's different than I got a wedding gift and I'm newly married and newly graduated. It just has, that's got a lot of sizzle on it. You just see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. So it makes it very hard for you to do what I'm going to tell you to do. which is just pay off your student loan, man. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to say, yay, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Woo-hoo. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I got it. I'm trying to set you up, man. But I mean, I understand the fields on this. So, but yeah, because the faster you get out of debt, the faster you have control of your most powerful wealth building tool. which is not the $20,000, but is your income?

Yeah, yeah. So what's your income going to be now, the two of you? So I work two jobs, and I make around $90,000 a year, and my fiance makes around $55,000. And those are your postgraduate jobs, right? Yeah, she's in her field that she studied. I went to school for ministry, and I worked that part-time. and I do HVAC and plumbing full-time, which I did not go to school for.

Yeah, but that's not unusual. 80% of pastors are by vocational in America today. Right. All right, so you got a $140,000 household income. Yes. And you're how old? I just turned 22. Oh, see, that's awesome, man.

You're killing it. And now you've got no debt because of this wonderful gift. It's just, it's just emotionally hard to do that. that, but it's the smart thing to do. It is what I would do. And it's what I'm going to tell you to do. And if you were my son, who was 22, I would tell you to do this. And I'm going to tell you to do this because I love you. But I'm also admitting simultaneously that it absolutely has no sizzle. And it's a sizzle gift with a wah, wah, wah suggestion. But the faster you get out of debt, the faster you can build wealth, the faster you'll be able to have a nice family, the faster you'll be able to do all

these things and it just I'm going to get you there as fast as I can every time and I'm a thousand percent consistent on this. Kenneth is in Georgia. Hi Kenneth. How are you? Hey, doing great. Thanks so much for having me today. Sure. What's up? I just discovered the Ramsey plan this past summer and it's really quick with me. I've been enjoying it so far. We are on baby step too, but my wife and I are thinking about having a second child and I just wanted to make sure that financially this is something we can afford it's not going to crush us i mean a little bit more of a house than i really should be uh we're having a mortgage payment of about $4100 a month whereas we take home about 12 000 uh i do have a side gig that brings in about two to four extra thousand a month so that does help uh

that makes that number work as long as you do that until your other income goes up you're going to keep the side gig because otherwise you can't afford the house you're right but that's not too bad okay why would you not be able to afford a baby i don't understand oh you've just been having repair bill after repair bill with this house. It needs a new roof. It's got foundation issues. We had to replace the entire H-FAC. We've got to set up a new drainage unit and maybe I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. Maybe this is an emotional thing, but I'm just worried can I afford this? Am I going to sink myself? Yeah. Well, I mean, if you got to trade a money pit for a baby, I'd trade for the baby. Well, that's pretty easy call, yeah. Yeah, that's an easy

decision. So sell the money pit and go get you something else. If you think, if you don't think the repairs are done sometimes these things go in waves though right i mean maybe you just finished your last wave of repairs and you won't have any for a while that would be nice yeah i mean i don't know that if that's the case it's emotional yeah if it's not if it's not you're observing a logical pattern and you're wise to be concerned okay so you got to decide which one of those it is Do you think it's over? I think that these are one-time repairs. Well, there are each of the ones you named are, but I mean, is the pattern over, or are we in a money pit?

That's what I'm worried about. How old's the house? It's about 25 years old, and we've been in it for about a year. So you've been through the other mechanicals, the water heater, the dishwashers, all that's new? We have replaced the dishwasher. We have not replaced the water heater yet. that 25-year water heater is done, bud. Yeah, it's going to need it real soon.

Yeah. So you got some things like that that are aging out that are what we call functional obsolescence in the real estate business. So they're functionally obsolete. And so, you know, that's the age of the house. And that doesn't mean it's a money pit. It just means it's an old house. And so, you know, one of our houses is 13 years old,

and I'm putting a roof on it this week. And I just put a heat and air system in it. So it's the same thing. I just both of them went at the same time. And so, you know, that's just, it just kind of goes with the calendar, is what I'm saying. And so if you think you're facing that, then you may want to buy a newer property that's a little different and a little less expensive maybe. And that is your family plan, planning. Yeah, I would have wanted to know, is there an emotional attachment for you and the wife?

It doesn't sound like you're too emotionally attached to it, but she. but I agree. I would take my losses early. I'd talk to a great real estate pro and do some homework on this house. What needs to be done is what's done already enough to move the house? I mean, I think you need to know all the information that you're dealing with because you're clearly frustrated.

Yeah, I don't believe it. And I just learned a new phrase. I've got to figure out how to use it this week. Functional obsolescence. I got to tell you, that's impressive. I don't know that I could get it out. I got to practice that one in front of the mirror. It's the obsolescence.

That's a tough word. But that's a new one for me I feel like if I dropped that in the right room It comes out of my real estate training back in the day Way back in the day I thought you could say it comes out of somewhere else It does that too But the functional obsolescence

Did I get that right? All right Well I mean you know with vehicles It's planned obsolescence right You've heard that Now you're showing off You've heard that No I mean the whole auto industry plans

For the car to deteriorate in a certain number of years I feel smarter because I now know about functional obsolescence and planned obsolescence. Not a book that's coming to you anytime soon. But I do like that I know that. Not a title that would sell. Yeah, not a good idea. We're going to probably back right off of that on the Ramsey personality title list. It's not going to make the cut.

Yeah, but the deal is, stuff wears out. Hello. That's all it is. That's all it means. I like that. It's not a, it's just a jondolony word that means stuff wears out. That's all it is. It's a good scrabble word.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, if you could spell it. I couldn't. I'd have to look it up, but I think that's illegal on Scrabble. So what do I know? Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Ken Coleman Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today. He's also host of the Front Row Seat Show on Ramsey Network, which is exploding.

If you've not watched this long-form interview show, there's a little bit of everybody been on there already. You don't want to miss it. Be sure and check it out. Benjamin is with us in Seattle. Hi, Benjamin. How are you? Hey, Dave.

How are we doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Love to hear it. I got a question about rolling over my current 401k into a Roth IRA, even though I'm still employed with the 401K. Don't think you can do it. Okay.

You can roll it into a Roth 401k inside your company. Does your company have a Roth 401k option? Yes, it does. Okay, you can move it there, but I don't think you can move a 401k while you're still employed. Gotcha. Of any kind, traditional Roth, anything. So how much is in it? Not much.

It's around 30 grand. Okay. So you're going to create about $7,000 in taxes, okay? Okay. When you do that. because you're going to take a non-taxed item and make it taxable that year. Do you have an extra $7,000 laying around to pay the taxes? The 401K is a Roth 401K.

Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, you just wanted to roll it out to an individual from the Roth 401K. I thought you were in a traditional 401K. I'm sorry. Roth 401k into a Roth IRA. Gotcha. Okay. Can't do it while you still work there, I don't think.

gotcha don't need to unless you get wow you just got crummy options or what yeah crummy options um it's a 2% match and so just not getting a lot there uh my roth IRA has probably 40 grand in it so I was just thinking if I had more a bigger number in one account more growth no versus you know two accounts no two accounts no two accounts No. Two, let's pretend that one, that the current individual is returning 10%

and your company was returning 10%. It's the exact same thing as if you put them together and they return 10%. Gotcha. A bigger number does not make you more money unless the percentage is different. The percent of return is different. You follow me?

I do. Okay. And besides that, I don't think you can move it until you leave the company anyway. So I think you're there. And the 2% matches 100% on 2%. That's pretty good. You got 2% before you got started.

So, yeah, just be careful and pick out good options. Make sure you're fully funding the individual one. And there we go. That's one of those math things that there's a couple of those that float around in the culture, Ken, that are interesting. And I don't know. I don't know. A lot of people think that if I put all my accounts together in one big lump sum and I make the exact same interest rate that I'm going to make more money, you'll make more actual dollars, but you don't make more than the total would have been anyway. Correct.

Because the sum hasn't changed. It's just now consolidated versus. The total principle that is earning has not changed. It's just being in one pile, being in six piles doesn't matter. Right. Assuming the piles are paying exactly the same prefer. purposes of this math brittle. Yeah.

The other one is funny is I don't want to pay off my mortgage because I've already paid all the interest. Correct. And that's not true. You don't, you don't, you don't, you don't, you don't pay interest at all on an amateurization mortgage. A standard mortgage is calculated like simple interest. And we can walk you through that for the fun of it.

Okay. You take your annual percentage rate, say six percent, divided by 12, which will be your monthly percentage rate. So that would be a half a percent per month. And so you're paying a half a percent on that month's outstanding balance. When you look at your amortization schedule and you say what number of dollars of my monthly payment is going towards interest this month, you're going to find it to be if you have a 6% mortgage, exactly half percent of whatever is outstanding right now. And that's called a simple interest calculation. But the amortization schedule, because it starts out with the largest possible balance, so more is going to interest on the, on the,

the first payment than ever will again, and every time you pay a payment, more goes to principal, less goes to interest, more goes to principle, less goes to interest every time you pay a payment. And because you pay so much interest on the front end like that, it makes people think they're pre-paying interest and they're not. That's right. You're only paying exactly what you owe. So there's no disadvantage at any time to pay off a mortgage. No disadvantage, mathematically. You only paid what was appropriate. And so if you prepay, if you send them an extra $10,000, it slides you forward in the amortization schedule. So figure out what your principal balance is $290,000 a day, move over in the amortization schedule to $280,000. And that's

what your next payment will look like, not your next payment. Because now you have $10,000 less that that half a percent this month is being multiplied on 280 versus 290 in my example okay and so a bunch of math gibberish there but all of that to say it's there's this interesting mythology that runs around then people make bad decisions on that I guess the other one that those don't aggravate me just I'm a math nerd but the one that aggravates me is where people just go ahead and transfer their house prior to death I'm going to just deed this to my kid It's a $200,000 house, and I'm just going to give it to them, and I'm 60 years old. And then I'm going to live in it.

Well, honey, there's just so much that you don't understand about what you just screwed up. Number one, when you give someone an asset that's $200,000, you just have gift tax. And when you get audited, they're going to tax you at 55% of that gift. Oof. The gift tax is horrendous. so you can't just decide I'm just going to give somebody money there you have to go through a few little tax moves in order to do that you can do it but you have to file some forms and do them on the unified estate tax credit there's a way to do it but you also just lost what's called

stepped up basis on that so hear me help you with this mom and dad bought the house in 19 oh whatever right and so they have almost they paid almost nothing for it and so when you get the house as a gift Your basis for calculating capital gains is what their basis was, which is nothing. And so when you sell the house, you're going to pay capital gains on the entire amount because you geniuses deeded it to you before they died. If instead you got it upon death, you get what's called stepped up basis. And that means that when you sell a house within six months of the death of the person that owned the house or a stock, either one, it's presumed that you sold it for market value and your basis is market

value, zero taxes. So capital gains tax on $200,000 is $30,000 bucks. So a nice little $200,000 home, you just made a $30,000 error. Try doing it on a million dollar house. Yeah, you just made a hundred and fifty thousand dollar error not to mention gift tax if you did it wrong just because I'm just going to do this to my kid because I think I don't want the government and you just screwed up the whole stinking thing because you didn't know what you're doing and you didn't get some good advice everybody needs insurance but it can be hard trying to find the pro who isn't just looking to make a buck agents who know their stuff they're hard to find with a ramsie trusted insurance pro you'll never have to deal

with sleazy business or slimy salespeople a lot of sleazy slimy stuff out there because we interview these guys we vet them we coach them to make sure they're market experts who have your best interest at heart go to ramsysolutions dot com slash coverage to find the type of insurance you're looking for connect with a ramsay trusted agent or click the last link in the show notes. Stephanie's in Orlando. Hi, Stephanie. How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you guys doing? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Good. Well, I've, I'm recently engaged, and I'm trying to figure out if I should buy a house before we get married or wait until after. Absolutely not. Please don't. I'm trying to. I'm going to beg you not to. Not to wait.

No, no. Don't buy a house. until you're married. Don't buy house. No, of course. I don't want to buy a house with him, but he has some debt. So I'm trying to figure out should I, should we get married to help him pay the debt off and then we buy a house? Yes. Or should I go ahead and buy the house on my own first? No. You think Dave's being clear enough? Sometimes he's fuzzy. Let me stop that, Stephanie. I'm sorry. That's not fair. I need to tell you why. Okay. Here's the thing. You're getting ready to join your lives. The best way for you guys to become wealthy is for you to join your lives. Combine everything, assets, liabilities, incomes, and we together are aligned on our steps

and what our future and what the future looks like and the steps to get there. Okay. And when you do that, it's a major plus for your relationship because when you can agree on your spending, you're agreeing on your fears, your dreams, your life. Money's not important, but where it goes speaks loudly who you are and what you dream about. And when the two of you combine, and in the old marriage vows, it used to say, rich or for poor, sickness and health, unto thee, all my worldly goods I pledge.

And it creates a unity in a joined, approach. What ends up happening, and we see it in the actual factual data 10 years later after you're married, is you have what we end up calling in the financial world the marriage advantage to where a 35-year-old married couple has a net worth that is far beyond a couple of single people that are 35. Right. So even if that means delaying some things. No, it's just not delaying them much, but it just, We're putting them in an order that might not be comfortable. Right.

So we're going to pay off the debt. We're going to build an emergency fund. Then we're going to get a big down payment and buy a nice home on a 15-year fix where the payments no more than a fourth of your take-home pay. You're going to start putting 15% of your income away towards retirement after that. And you're going to become very, very wealthy in about a decade. Yep, exactly. Because I'm there now on my own, but seeing that, you know, my plan is to join us, you know. So how much do you have in savings that's not retirement?

Um, about 50,000 right now. And how much debt does he have? He has about 31,000. Perfect. When you get back from the honeymoon, pay it off. That's kind of what my thought was. Yeah. Because I still want to save some more money for a down payment because even 50,000 is just okay.

Pay off the debt. And then you've got a combined household income of what when you come back from the honeymoon? Um, maybe around 90,000, 95,000 maybe. Good. And so you're what, 25, 26? Oh, I am 37. 37, okay. All right.

What do y'all do for a living? I'm a production planner, so I'm manufacturing. What's he do? He's in shipping, receiving for manufacturing as well. Okay, cool, cool. All right, perfect. So you are a planner. That's why you're lining up on all this immediately.

Exactly. The way your mind works. All the numbers written down. That's the way your mind works. And so. I've been listening to you guys for five. five years now. Okay. Well, you know the baby steps then. And I'm just walking you through them as a combined couple. We're going to take your 50, pay off his 30, that leaves 20. Now we've got a $90,000 household

income. The 20 is probably your emergency fund. So we start from scratch real quick, build our down payment. Then we buy a home. Meanwhile, or shortly after buying a home, one of the two, we start Baby Step 3B or 4, 15% of your income going into retirement. You've heard all this before, hadn't you? Oh, yeah, plenty of times. Actually, I didn't include my emergency. fund in that. Oh, I have a three months. Okay, then you've got a 20 head start, not a 50 head start towards your down payment. Exactly.

Okay. If your emergencies fund is big enough for our emergency fund, that is? Not yet. I don't think with what I think a new mortgage will be. Okay. Well, then, yeah, we'll get there. But, I mean, you see, you know exactly what to do. It's just a matter of when, what, and why.

But no, we don't try to, don't look for a hack. Just go straight through it. exactly it's the fastest way it's just it's just not popular it's not it's not cool your friends are going to go what who gives a crap what you think you don't have any money and you don't and you're not living in my house so i mean what you know you know these are not real friends real friends go yes you're so smart you're wise beyond your years go do the smart stuff you know that that's that's that's very cool congratulations hey i'm going to send you a copy of the total money makeover the baby steps you already know them but i'm going to send it to you anyways as a wedding gift very cool

That's fun. Yeah, I like the, I like how wary she is, you know, not jumping in emotionally, very solid. And I'd love to know what she has in retirement. We didn't get to that, but I think that they're going to be in great shape. The other thing I would say, we didn't get to this, but for people that are listening and watching this, in a situation like this, and I'm sure she's done this, you want to make sure that this person is on board with you before you get married on the finances. It's not something you want to come in. And in this case, I'm not saying this is happening here, but you want to be careful not to come in. We combine finances and I'm going to pay all this debt off, and they go, woo-hoo, and then they go get more

debt. Super important that you've got this stuff figured out pre-marriage. Amen. Loretta's in Texas. Hi, Loretta. How are you? I'm just fine. How are you doing today? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Well, I am 64 years old, and I'm so ready to retire, but I'm just worried about my finances. Okay. I have $8,000 in an emergency fund. I have $12,000 in 401K. I have $15,000 in savings.

My home is paid off. My vehicle is paid off, and I have no other debt. Okay. And what will you live on if you retire? Social Security. Well, I mean, I can't. I can't just retire. I'm probably going to work the rest of my life,

but the job that I have now, I am a truck driver. I do super loads, and so, you know, it's physically demanding. It's a lot of work, but, you know, at some point, you know, I want to be home. What do you make? $110,000 a year. Okay. Why have you not saved in it? Well, I mean, because I've paid off debt.

Okay, so your debt's gone now. My debt is gone now. So how much longer do you want to work and pile up some cash? I mean, why don't you try living on nothing and let's put $100,000 away in the next two years? 50 a year. Ooh. 50 a year. Well, you don't have any payments.

You're on the road. Because I don't have, I can actually put even, you know, probably put even more than that. Good. Because it's just me. Good. So, you know, with everything. Well, let's not retire on social insecurity. Okay, so hang in there another couple of years.

And how much could you put away out of 110 if you go whole hog? You just go all in, girl. 75? Okay, that's 150 in two years, right? Yeah. All right. Now, that makes you 66 years old. And if you then will set your budget up with no debt to live on your Social Security,

if you invest that with a SmartVester Pro and some good mutual funds, it will double every seven years. So at 73, you'll have 300,000 if you don't touch it and live on the Social Security. Now you're building a nest egg. Okay. And that's where I want you to go. This idea, $12,000 and I'm ready to retire. Uh-uh.

Uh-uh. I don't want to live on Social Security. It's not enough. I've been working too hard all these years. You have for sure, kiddo. Jake's in Minnesota. Hi, Jake. How are you? Hey there. Thanks for taking the call. Sure. What's up? I was just calling to ask, you and my wife are trying to figure out if we should work on paying down our current mortgage, which we secured at 2.75% or if we should be working on saving up our savings to get into a bigger home.

down the road pay off your mortgage as fast as you can okay just as fast as you go at it yeah just go at it now I mean you need to be working what we call the baby steps have you heard us talk about those yep I'm familiar okay the and so are you out of debt everything but the home that's right and you have your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses yes and your putting 15% of your income into retirement plans? That is something that we've backed down a little bit on recently. My wife and I, we don't have great matching from our employers.

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You need to be putting 15% of your income away for retirement and good growth stock mutual funds. That's going to build wealth for you. And then beyond that, with any money we can find in the budget that we want to throw at the house, let's just start paying the house off systematically. and those are the things that the people that become millionaires the fastest do.

They steadily invest in their 401ks and they pay off their homes. Data after data after data. We've got 10,000 of them we interviewed, we know. Okay, yeah, we're, I think we're pretty close to the point where we're almost ready to take the jump on the new home, which is what we've been trying to. Well, then, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You're just going to sell this house, and the equity is going to come out of it anyway. Fair. I think we're just trying to make sure that if the right house comes along, that we have enough liquid, that we don't have to make a contingent offer. Would that ever make a difference?

No, you have to make a contingent offer because you have to sell the house. You can't take on two mortgages. I think there might be a little room for us to own both for a few months, but yeah, correct. We'd have to sell. You don't want to turn yourself into a motivated seller. thing doesn't sell for six months and you're paying payments on it you're going to give the stupid thing away you don't want to do that no point we're uh calm down go take a cold shower you're getting house fever yeah the uh you've been out looking at the weekends at the open houses hadn't you yeah we've been working on it yeah you're working on it's working on it's We're expecting in March, and we've just been kind of looking at our current home situation

and trying to figure out how we can make that next step happen. Yeah, it's okay to calm down and go after the baby. I, as a husband and grandpa, I won't recommend you plan a move during a pregnancy. You're not going to be a popular dude. 10 years later, she'll still bring that up to you. that time that you moved me while I was nine months pregnant. Yeah. She'll remember that for the rest of her life. She won't forget. And I got to speak on behalf of all babies. They have no idea how big the house is. A lot of this is just very natural. You're a baby advocate.

Yeah, I am. I am. I am. I'm the first time I've taken that. I'm an advocate for babies. I'm here to speak on behalf of the children. I'm a real man of the people. You know, Dave, I really know. No, I just hear this a lot from young couples. And by the way, it's very normal. And I'm not in any way judging it. But we start to think, well, we start to think, well, well, this is what the nest should look like, and this is what the nest should feel like. And in all reality, can get you in real trouble. In the scenario that Dave gave you, we get that call a lot where people, they thought it was going to work out, and then life has got a different idea, and then you're stuck, as opposed to being patient here,

and the baby's going to be fine. You don't need the perfect nursery and all the things. It just doesn't matter. You're going to be so exhausted. You don't even want to think about all this. So I think Dave's right. Patience, patience, patience, patience. Yeah, and definitely a contingency.

Absolutely. That or sell the house and moving into an apartment while you're looking. So you don't have, and you're ain't going to do that for sure. Two moves? That'll get you in real hot water. That's gross. Yeah. It could happen, but yeah.

No, because here's the thing, honestly. You start talking about 279 on one side of the fence like this is a bargain. Right. Okay. Like you got, I got this cheap interest rate. Dude, after the 11th month and the half. house hasn't sold, that cheap interest rate is going to look like it's 27%, not 2.7. And you're going to be going, oh, God, I'm just, this is killing me.

We've got to get this house move. You're going to be calling a realtor every day. You're going to be dropping the price, dropping the price, dropping the price, dropping the price, then somebody's going to come in and low-ball you, and you're going to take it. Do not get yourself in that position. And so it's easy. Do a contingency deal or don't do it. And so, like I had one guy, he said, well, God told me.

me to do it. I said, no, he didn't. Yeah, he did. No, he didn't. I'm positive. God didn't tell, not tell you to do that. He said, how do you know? I said, because the Bible says the blessings of the Lord have no sorrow added to them. And there's sorrow added to your mess you created here. And then you're trying to blame it on God. And God's up there laughing, going, you're just one of my stupid children. You know, he's got a bunch of stupid children because I've been one of them. Me too. But that's not fair, Dave. You used God's word to debate God's voice that's not fair you were not playing fair it's such a pro move by the way that's that's a good that's a flex that's a flex yeah all right uh alan's in georgia hey alan what's up hey how you

doing today better not deserve how can i help uh yes or so i um i've inherited some land uh from whenever my mom passed away and uh she's kind of been sitting there not making any money and i think it's probably time to sell. How much? And what's it going to bring? Conservative, 350 to 500. Wow. Nice inheritance.

It's about 64 acres. Thanks, Mom. Wow. Yeah. So what are you going to do with a 400, 500, 500 grand? Well, I kind of wanted to get into real estate. I've been doing some research on like beach condos. and kind of looking at the, I think their return on investment is hovering from 8 to 10%

and kind of wanted your opinion on it. Where do you live in Georgia? Albany. But it's in Leesburg. Yeah. Okay. The land. Well, the reason I asked is resort real estate, mountains, mountains, beaches, lakes,

is the most volatile type of real estate. It's the first thing that goes up when times are good and the first thing that goes down when times are bad. And that includes the rental income on it. So if you have some kind of a problem and the economy slows down, you're going to be the first one to take it on the chin. The value goes down and the rentals are hard to keep booked.

So I don't recommend resort real estate. as an investment. Okay. If you want to buy a toy for your family to go stay in at the beach, that's a different discussion. You pay cash for toys, but that's not what you, that's not what you said. So instead, I would buy a boring rental property that's steady, and it's probably close to you, or two or three.

I'd rather you buy two or three, $200,000, $150,000 houses in your area there, and they'll go up more steadily. than those beach condos will. They won't go up as much during good times, but they won't go down as much during bad times. And you create this tortoise versus the hair type of investment portfolio. I've got a question for you on this. 8% was his goal. He stated it on the call.

Why wouldn't you say, just put that in our investment, our four pockets that we talk about, why not invest it in the market, why even take on the headache of real estate? Well, 8% is his cash on cash. Got it. That's how much he makes in his pocket versus what he invested. Okay. That doesn't count how much it goes up in value every year. Fair.

And it doesn't count that he can also shelter a portion of it by doing depreciation. So those three numbers added together on an 8% are going to sound more like 17%. Okay, got it great. And then it makes it worthwhile. I look for 8 to 10 on a residential if I'm buying it. Okay. On commercial, I look for 10 to 12. Okay.

Cash on cash, but I fully expect to return about 20 on a 12, including, it's called an internal rate of return, which includes the increase in value and the write-off of the depreciation schedule. All right. Our scripture of the day, James 4.3, when you ask, you do not receive because you ask with wrong motives that you may spend what you get on pleasures. Our friend Art Laffer said, it's not true that Congress spends money like a drunken sailor.

Drunken sailors spend their own money. Congress spends hours. Fact. Fact, Art. You tell Art used to hang out with Ronald Reagan a lot. That's a great line right there. That's fabulous. All right, here we go with Gerard in Texas.

Hey, Gerard. How are you? I'm better than I deserve. Dave, how are you? The same, sir. How can we help? So my wife and I are on Baby Step 2. We should be done with about $40,000 worth of debt by the end of the year.

And we're going to be moving on to 4, 5, and 6. I already kind of have plans for retirement and early pay off of the house. But I'm confused a little bit on the college saving side of things. Cool. How old are your babies? Four and seven. Awesome. Okay.

What are you confused about? So I looked at the Dave Ramsey calculator on how to save for college and what we would be putting aside just based on what we think living expenses are and tuition will be. That number seemed high around like $1,100 a month or something like that. I didn't know if that was normal to set that much aside in a $529 or there's a happy medium. I would not do that. Okay. Okay. What would you all recommend as far as how to tackle the tuition burden?

versus living costs. Yeah, I honestly, I need to go look at that calculator. It sounds like, um, so tuition has averaged seven to eight percent per year inflation rate. Okay. For the last 40 years or so. And so it's, you know, regular inflation is two to four percent average. I mean, one year Biden, we had 9.7.

But I mean, the normal inflation rate is two, two to seven, or two to, two to, and then with this so that's what it's going up so you got a you know university of Texas is probably 14,000 right now in state tuition and so if you wanted to say okay four years of that is um 60,000 bucks right? Correct. Okay. And then add 8% a year for a decade and that's that's where you that's going to be your tuition cost right.

And so that that's what you would do. And then yeah, we use a 529. because if you put in, you know, a couple grand or something a year, not a month, but a year, you're going to have about 90 or 100, you probably have about 140,000 bucks in there, something like that if you started with the babies. And so you'll have somewhere around 100, 150,000 in there. And a lot of that is growth. And if it's in a 529 in a mutual fund, a mutual fund in a 529, it's going to grow tax-free for

tuition. And so if you have $100,000 worth of growth, see, if you put it, okay, let's say you put in $2,000 a year for 10 years. That's $20,000 you put in. If there's $120,000 in there, there's $100 in growth. You got me? No taxes on that $100 is important because that's a $20,000 tax bill, $30,000 tax bill that you're avoiding by putting the mutual fund in a $529 for purposes of the kid. And that makes sense. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, a couple grand a year is going to take you a long, long way towards doing this. And the other thing that we would not have said 10 years ago that we will say today is, I think higher education is going to look dramatically different 15 years from now, wouldn't you, Ken? I've been pretty bold on that, and I believe you're going to see

a decentralization. You're going to see specialties, like obviously medicine, law, look very similar to how we see them today, but as far as the traditional four years and you got to take a bunch of undergrad stuff and you got the prerequisites before you get to the major. I think that's going to splinter. I think the onset of AI, I think that we are actually at a, I think, a fever pitch on what the American people are willing to put up with. And I think when you see on the rip off of meaning willing to pay for it, give you a real numbers so you know where I'm coming from, Gerard. Gallup came out with information this year in a poll, 46 percent of American parents said they would prefer that their kids go into trades and not into

college. Our good friend Mike Roe, I call him the Oprah Winfrey of the trades. He's been banging this drum for a long time. You only like that as an insult. But I do think Dave's right. I don't think you're going to see the exorbitant costs. I don't think, now you've got to plan for it, but I don't think you're going to see that. I think we've kind of jumped a shark. Well, the student loan debacle has highlighted that some of the higher ed stuff is out of control. Yeah. And so I do know that people are going to be more cognizant of what they pay and what they get for what they pay. That's right. For sure. And so I think that's going to create a downward pressure on that inflation number that I gave you of 7 to 8%. So I don't think they're going to maintain that. I think you're going to see Dave, a little quick prediction.

because I've been studying this, I think you're going to see private sector competition for traditional education. I think people are going to come along. Wait a second. We can provide training for what corporate America really wants for a whole lot less money and make a ton of money doing it. And you're going to see these outsized tuitions go away because they can't compete with the private sector. Google's doing their own training program, a six-month program. I think we're going to see more and more big-time companies are going to outsource their own education training to private education companies watch for that I think that's going to happen all of that to say that if you have put a couple grand a year for a four-year-old or six-year-old

you're going to have a hundred thousand plus in there when you get there each and that's going to give you a real head start into whatever you want to do whether it's a trade a certification program or an actual four-year degree and which we're not against a four-year degree We're just against getting a degree for four years in left-handed puppetry. And from a school where you pay $150,000 a year to go so they can brainwash your child into being a communist. And so I'm against that. I think that's a problem. And so, and as a parent or a grandparent, I'm not writing that freaking check anymore.

And I'm not by myself. So that's what we're seeing. So I think you're, you know, you're doing your individual planning. but you're doing it in the context of what is happening culturally right now on the subject. That's why we wanted to comment on it. Yeah. So it's very good. And Ken, I think it's worth, you know, highlighting a couple things here while we're at it.

You've been working with self-improvement in the self-improvement space and the new show, Front Row Seed is helping people learn leadership skills and, you know, highlighting stories of great men and great women and what they did to get there. And, you know, what we discover every time we do, that. If you read biographies of great people who are successful in any function, whether business, ministry, sports, whatever, you find that they were the secret sauce, not where they went to school. That's exactly right. And so the number of times that people become successful due to the particular school that they went to is precisely zero. and yet we go, well, if he went to Harvard, bull crap, nobody cares out here is the problem.

It's all theory. There's no data to back it up. 78% of the Fortune 500 companies have a CEO that went to a state school. That's eight out of ten. Shut up. Had a 2.5. They didn't go to Wharton. They didn't go to Princeton.

They didn't go to, you know, muckety-muck school. They went to a state freaking school. State, Michigan State, University of Tennessee, that's where they went to school. They didn't go to Vanderbilt. They didn't. The 78% of the CEOs of the Fortune 500 companies. Not straight-out students either. There's data for you, okay?

So where you go to school? Doesn't matter. It's a big deal. It's right. Because it costs out the butt to go to those places. And we're beginning to see the American people, and this isn't just parents anymore, the young people are going, they're reading the stories, they're paying attention, They're older brothers and sisters.

They're going, there's not a value exchange here. No, I can't spend $250,000 to become a social worker for the state of Tennessee with a master's degree to make $38,000 a year. That's dumb, but. That's right. The ROI's not there anymore. It just doesn't work. So you guys got to think about stuff like that. And, Gerard, you're very wise to stay on top of the whole idea and be watching and monitoring all this as you go.

That puts us this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, There's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.