The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Let the Loan Sharks Own You—Set the Hook! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: April 17, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Thank you for joining us.

Sarah starts off this hour in New York City. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I have a question about the end of Baby Step 2. I need help negotiating my last student loan. Sorry, I'm really excited and really nervous. Just a little bit of background.

I have an irregular income. I'm a classical soprano in New York City. And I'm about to go into a dry spell over the summer. And I want to get this done by the end of June. And it feels like a huge roadblock. I paid off $65,000, and I'm sorry for crying. That's okay, kiddo. You're almost there.

I can see the finish line. So you paid off $65,000. How much is the student loan? The student loan, the principal balance is $8,686. Wait a minute. Slow down. Say again again it's how much 8,686 is okay 8,600 bucks all right i gave my first offer of a thousand and there's a bunch of collection fees on top of it with the company who's managing it with the home office there in st. Louis. Is this a Sally Mae loan?

No, it's not. It's a private student loan. Sally Mae is going to be done by May. This is my last loan. Okay, and are you behind on this loan? Way, way behind. I haven't made a payment in so long I can't even remember. Gotcha, okay.

So it's really old. So you basically have an unsecured loan, a private loan that happened to be used for tuition. So we're calling it a student loan. And because a government loan, you won't be able to negotiate the balance on because it's got a government guarantee on it. But this is $8,600 principal balance. And it's been years since it's been paid on. Correct. Okay. and what are they saying the balance is total the home office says 86 86 is principal the collection agency says 19k with fees so they've and then i made my first offer yet uh on friday for a thousand and they came back today with 11, well, that's a nice move. But we're not there yet.

So how much can you have by June 1 before your dress starts? By June 1, I think I can have maximum 4 or 5 if I really hustle. That's about

max. Right now I have about 23 that I could give them today right well the the answer is um you know there's no magic pill to this it's these guys have obviously figured out that they're not going to get uh 19 000 um and um they kind of feel like well let's see what what she really does because she made a ridiculous offer. Now we're going to make an $11,000 offer, which they kind of, it's a pretty serious, nice move on their part, nice move on the chessboard, right? So, you know, I would just start to have a conversation and go, listen, this is not really about a negotiation. This is about I just don't have much money, and I want to clear this.

And I really don't have a lot of money. And so I can negotiate with you, but I don't have much money and i want to clear this and i really don't have a lot of money and so i yeah i can negotiate with you but i don't have the money and so it doesn't you know i you know the most i could go would be right now and i would use an odd number i have forty three hundred and thirty three dollars that i can get you by the forty three hundred and thirty four dollars that i can get you by the end of May. Okay. And I've done detailed calculations, and that's the most I'm going to be able to do. And then see what they do.

And just say, that's all I got, guys. I mean, I can't negotiate and make money. You know, your negotiating technique is not going to make me have money. I don't have it. I just don't have it. I just don't have it i just don't have it yeah okay and um and here's the thing no one has ever been murdered over settling alone yeah so death is not an option in this discussion you're going to be fine it's a game it's a game

like i'm so close and i want to be done. It's a game. It's a game. Yeah. So you're a world-class singer, obviously, okay? And yet, when you go to audition, you get rejected most of the time still, don't you? Yes. Okay. That's all this is. Okay. You haven't died from being rejected as a matter of fact you have made a career of being rejected yeah you made it because being rejected is how

you get to be accepted and when you get accepted when you get the part that's when you you know that's what your career is built on right yeah? Yeah. And so that's all this is. This is like, okay, I'm going to go take a shot at this part. If I don't get it, my life's not going to end. I'm going to get another part. And I'm going to take a shot at these goobers and see if I can get them to do $4,334 by the end of May. And if they flop in the floor and foam at the mouth or something, that's fine. So what?

It's just part of the drama, right? Back off from this emotionally and have some fun with it okay if they smell those tears that i'm hearing they're gonna slit your throat kiddo yeah you need to get real arrogant about this and just have some fun with it okay step. It's a monopoly game. It's a game. Step back from it emotionally. Enjoy the sword fight that you're in, okay? Okay. Because nobody here is going to die.

You're going to be great. You're going to get this. Now, I don't know exactly what they're going to take. There's no way of knowing. But I suspect, based on this initial move, that you're going to be somewhere south of $7,000 is going to settle this. That's just my guess. But I don't know exactly. And you might get the $4,300 deal. I'm just making that number up, by the way.

It was just random. See, because it's a game. It's just a game. Yeah, exactly. The other thing you have to keep in mind is the guy on the other side of the phone, it's just his job. It's not his money. Exactly. It's not.

And it's one guy at the home office, and he's just super patient. Oh, really? He speaks very calmly. Oh, good. It's one guy. Yeah. So they're not, you know, it's not a team coming after me. It's just one person.

Yeah, it's just a job. And they haven't come after me. It's not even a, he's just got a job, and it's not even a really a job. It's just one person. It's just a job. And they haven't come after me. It's not even a job, but it's not even a really good job. He has to collect student loan debt. I mean, what a crappy job. You know? And so, you know, it's just a job for him. And, you know, so keep in mind that they are not as nearly as emotionally tied to this money as you are because it's not their money.

Yeah. This is a game enjoy i just need you to tell me not to cash out my tiny bit of retirement don't cash it out this is a game don't cash it out it's a game write it it's how many years have been how many years has been since you paid on this oh my god probably at least five okay so if it goes another year what's the matter i don't want it to i don't want it to i want you to be debt free but in the in the scope of your life don't let them own you over your decision to be debt free by summer don't let them own you just play with this you're fishing you're fishing set You're fishing. Set the hook, kiddo.

Set the hook. You can do this. You call me back if you need some more help. This is fun. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. One Dental is a company I've been telling my listeners about because I know these guys will save you money at the dentist. One Dental is a dental savings program that allows you to go to one of over 158,000 dental practice locations nationwide and save on things like cleanings, dentures, root canals, crowns, and even orthodontics.

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Ford in Wisconsin says, Is it better to take out loans to get through school fast and start making money or go through slower working and paying as I go. None of the above. Work more and go through fast. I worked 40 to 60 hours a week when I was in college, and I got through in four years. My GPA doesn't matter because you all listen to me anyway.

It was a 2.97. I'm still pissed about the three one hundreds of a point. But anyway, I GPA suffered. I could have been. I mean, I have the intellect to be a 4.0 student. But I worked all the time and still got through. My net worth was $1.66 when I graduated. Work all the time. Go to an inexpensive school that you can afford and go through fast.

So I don't buy these false premises when you set up this false logic between two things that don't have to be. I either take out loans or I go through really slowly. How about none of the above? That's my answer. A, C, doing multiple questions. You'll take these tests when you're in college. They're multiple choice questions. And C, none multiple questions. You'll take these tests when you're in college. They're multiple choice questions.

And C, none of the above. Work like a maniac. And listen, it's wonderful if you can have a social experience while you're in college. The college experience, it's wonderful. I don't mind you having that. I'm not mad at it. But the idea that you finance that is absolutely freaking ludicrous. It's nuts.

Richard is in North Carolina. Hey, Richard, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve, sir. What's up? Hey, Dave, it's a big follower of your podcast here, and I watch you daily on YouTube. My question is, I have a 16-year-old daughter.

I just retired from the military two years ago, and I'm currently back in graduate school working on a degree myself. Good for you. What are you studying? Computer science. Okay. Good for you. Yeah. I managed to get my undergraduate degree in IT while I was still on active duty.

I've been retired now for two years, so now I'm working on my graduate degree. Cool, thank you for your service. How can I help today? Thank you, yes, sir. Well, my question is, I have a 16-year-old daughter. Obviously, since 9-11, I missed a whole lot with her. I'm divorced. She lives two hours away.

But she's 16 years old. She's currently in high school. And I've talked to her quite often about life and adulthood. Well, anyways, she wants to go to school and become an artist. And I understand her reasoning. She has a passion for art. However, I don't think she's looking 10, 12 years down the road. So when I post questions, you know, well, number one, when you go to college, what do you plan on doing with this degree? Yeah. And she says, well, I want to be an abstract artist.

And so then I say, well, what's going to happen if your artwork doesn't sell? You know, you've got to have a place to stay. You've got to have transportation. You've got to have food. You've got all other bills associated with that. And when I asked her mother the same question, her mom typically, which is my ex-wife, typically gets mad and I normally get hung up on. And I'm like being blamed for not being supportive and yada yada and all that other stuff.

So I'm wondering what you would do in this particular situation in order to try to get your point across to your child that you care about deeply uh take her on a weekend trip and let's go look at art art studios and let's talk to artists real ones not mythical ones that are in her mind sure uh you're in fayetteville north carolina uh ashville's got a great art community and go talk to real artists that are actually trying to make a living selling art and some of them do I'm not

I wouldn't say and you're not saying you should not have an art degree all you're saying is is have a plan on how you're going to eat when you have an art degree absolutely and so let's talk this through

how are we going to do it let's have a business plan I want to be supportive but I'm not going to support mythology because I love you. If I'm your dad, I'm not going to support mythology. So we're going to have a plan. I mean, if you want to move to L.A. and be an actor, great. You better get used to waiting tables.

For a long time. The joke in Nashville where I live is how you get the next country music star's attention. A waiter. Everybody in Nashville where I live is how you get the next country music star's attention. Waiter. Everybody in Nashville can sing. Very few of them make a living at it. And so, you know, you've got to figure out that deal. You know, you know how many people on my staff? I got people on my staff that won American Idol, you know, and they work for us now.

There's nothing wrong with that. It's just they didn't find a way to monetize in the arts, and you've got to be able to do that in any industry, in any world, in any passion. You can't just point your finger at God and say, this is my passion, give me money. He laughs at that. And so you take her and walk her through the art community and let her understand exactly the price she's going to pay to get started.

And so what I highly recommend to somebody who's looking at moving into the arts is that they do it. I don't have a personal grasp of that because that part of my brain doesn't work. But that doesn't mean it's not valid. It's perfectly valid. But have a plan. And so if it were my kid, I would say, hey, let's get a minor in marketing while you're getting your degree in art or art appreciation and then work on your art.

But also, you know, maybe your marketing degree will help you sell it or help you get a job to work while you sell it. Because most people, in order to do something like that, have to work something else till they get their passion into the marketplace and get it moving. Very few people graduate from college with an art degree and become a self-supporting painting artist. The percentage is, you know, it's like the number of people who graduate and play professional football.

You know, I'm looking at these football players, you know, they all think they're going to the NFL. One percent of them go to the NFL. You know, they don't go absolutely so you got to have another plan if you're playing if you're playing college football you better be getting your degree while you're there you're going to need it and even if you do go to the nfl the average career is 3.8 years so have a plan on what you're going to do after football it's the same thing that's not art that's athletics but it's the same thing. That's not art. That's athletics. But it's the same kind of thing.

And that's not not being supportive, but blindly supporting and saying, live your passion, little butterfly. That's just crap, and you know it is. And so I don't know how you handle the ex-wife. You know, obviously that's not working. But if you can get a father-daughter weekend, go do two or three of those weekends. Go to some art communities where people are making a living or attempting to make a living and study the difference. Here's somebody who's starving, and here's what they're doing.

Here's someone who's actually making a living. And sadly, it's like writing books, you know. It's the best books, the best written books, the ones that have the most perfect literature, most perfect. They oftentimes don't sell it so you can be a really excellent artist and not sell anything so you you've got to have a system and a plan and a way to think this through uh and that is not that is me helping you live your dream being supportive of your dream but don't let your dream be a nightmare. And that's all you're doing.

So if you can work those father-daughter things out, then that'll work. You know, you can get her there. But to the extent that all you get is hung up on, there's no magic words to say to somebody after you've been hung up on. And if you're supposed to blindly support something that's not going to work and just go along with it just because that makes you a good dad, that doesn't make you a good dad.

So, love her enough. Hold on, I'm going to have Kelly send you a copy of Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters. And Meg Meeker's book on the relationship with fathers and daughters and how important it is, the relationship, that relationship is, how much of an indicator it is as to the daughter's future success. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. With more frequency than you know, I get calls and emails from people dealing with the recent loss of a spouse or a parent.

You can hear the struggle and the heartache that they've been experiencing. And at a time they should be grieving, what breaks my heart the most is the strain and tension that they're going through because of money. Especially when it's a situation that could have been avoided. If you have a family, it is your responsibility to have term life insurance. It's one of the things you do to say I love you. And yes, this is an ad for Zander Insurance, but since this is one of the most effective ways I have to get my point across, so be it. For over 20 years, I've been telling you about the importance of term life insurance and protecting your family. Listen, you need to check out Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

I can't say it enough. Protect your family. It's what you're supposed to do. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282 in the lobby of ramsey Solutions, Tyler and Jensena are with us. Hi, guys. How are you? Hey, great. How are you? Welcome, welcome. Where do you all live?

We live in Roanoke, Virginia. And all the way to Nashville to do a debt-free scream? That's right. Love it. How much have you paid off? We paid off $199,500. Wow! And how long did this take? 36 months. Wow. What do you guys do for a living? I am a podiatrist, so I finished residency last year, and now I'm doing a one-year fellowship in Virginia. Ah, very cool. And I'm a chemist. Very cool. So what's your household income?

We started at around $89,000, and now we're up to $150,000. Way to go. Way to go. So you did this while you're working your way through then? That's right. Residency. And was this med school loans then? Yeah. So it was four years of podiatry school, and I borrowed $160,000. And then after the loan capitalized six months after I graduated, it was $180,000. And by the time we paid it I graduated, it was $180,000. And by the time we paid it off, it was about $200,000. Man. Wow.

You guys got after it. I mean, you really leaned in. So how long have you two been married? Six years. Okay. And three of that has been cracking the whip on this debt, huh? Oh, yeah. We tried to keep our expenses low starting off, but even so, with medical school, it gets pretty expensive fast.

Yeah, really fast, really fast. So what made you decide to get this intense and this focus 36 months ago? How did this story unfold? Well, after I graduated, we calculated that it would be about $30 a day that our loans grew just from the interest. And so it was tempting to wait until I had that big first job as a doctor. But we decided that we were in debt and we borrowed all of this money. And so even though we were working hard on call and we felt like we maybe deserved to have a lot of nice things and to live large, we were in so much debt that we set our own standard and we made a goal and we lived very

below our means to make that debt go away. What made you decide to do that? I mean, were you raised this way? Yeah, both of our parents are all about Dave Ramsey, so we've kind of grown up on it. But sometimes when you get to medical school, you get stuck with the big bill. Gotcha. Okay. So you're a Financial Peace baby, so you knew what to do. Yeah. My mom actually offered to give me $100 if I completed the Financial Peace University DVD set before the summer ended. And I finished about 70% before the summer ended, and so I never ended up getting the $100. She's hardcore.

That's right. You didn't play through, man. That's it. I love it. Well done. Well, this is impressive. That's right. You didn't play through, man. That's it. I love it. Well done. Well, this is impressive. Way to go. So now you're set.

You got the incomes starting to climb. Everything's happening. Everything's in line and no debt. Well, it wasn't an easy process. As a resident, we're working a lot and then it's also difficult to do any moonlighting. So Jensina did a lot of the heavy lifting during my residency yeah so i um worked full-time as chemist but getting up at 4 30 working 10 hour day till six then i'd go tutor students so three to six days a week i'd be tutoring students after working hours wow and then after that on the weekends i would do brand

ambassador gigs so i'd work for different companies promoting their products or whatever they had going on. And I was a hair model even. So I tried to find any other job I could get just to make ends meet. And I think that was how we made more income. But then we also really decreased a lot by, well, Tyler can tell you about our students and everything. Well, we tried to host medical students that were rotating through the hospital so we had about 20 months worth of students living in our two-bedroom one bath apartment and then um i ate a lot of my meals at the hospital uh gencina cut my hair and um i

liked to run races so i found a company that would sponsor me to run races while juggling. And we really just tried to limit our expenses and increase our income. Wow. You guys went all in. I mean, you went crazy when you decided to do this. You did it, right? That's right. We went for it. So looking back on it, was it all worth it?

Yeah, absolutely. Right now, I'm finishing up my fellowship and starting to look for my first full-time job as an attending physician. And it's given me a lot of confidence because instead of picking the first job or feeling pressure to take a certain job, I can choose what's best for me because we're out of debt and we're in a great position to raise our seven-week-old baby girl. Yeah. And what is her name? Sophie. Sophie comes along seven weeks ago in the middle of this deal, or towards the end of the story, I guess,

towards the end of the debt-free story, right? So well done, you guys. Very well done. So I guess both parents were cheering you on, right? That's right. We had a lot of support from our friends. You know, we would really, really limit our expenses. Sometimes we would walk to really limit our expenses. Sometimes we'd walk to the airport with our luggage. And so we got made fun of a little bit from some of the

folks I work with. But we, you know, we had a lot of fun. And ultimately, just by being creative, we were able to do a lot of the things that we wanted to do. We just found a different way to do it. So when we went to a wedding or a big conference, sometimes we'd go camping or stay in a hostel and still do all the stuff we wanted to do, but on our strict budget. You were just weird. You were just completely weird.

I love it. That is so well done. Very well done. So obviously cutting expenses, increasing your income. Any other tips for getting people out of that? I think just being content with what you have. I think sometimes it's easy to justify your needs and wants and getting those mixed up. But I think just getting them on the right track and being content really can help that, too.

And then avoiding the lifestyle creep and realizing that you need to work hard and get out of debt right now and not just wait until you have a larger income. Yeah, it occurs to me that you've put a series of habits, character traits in place that you'll probably never look away from. I mean, you can make a half million dollars a year between the two of you. It's possible later in life. And you'll probably always be looking back on these days that there's some stuff that's set in place in your life. Agreed? Absolutely. Yeah.

And we'll be living below our means no matter what we make. And hopefully we can be generous and really give a lot back. And we're looking forward to the life on the other side of being in debt. Yeah. Well, you live like no one else. Later you get to live and give like no one else. Well, well done, you two. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, like no one else. Later, you get to live and give like no one else. Well, well done, you two. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Retire Inspired.

And, of course, that's the next chapter in your story for you to be completely not only debt-free, but now become millionaires and outrageously generous along the way. Now, since Sophie is so young, are you going to leave her over to the side, or do you want her in the picture when you do your scream? It sounds like she's already screaming. It's okay with me either way. Whatever you want to do. You're going to have to pry her away from Janelle, I guess.

But, yeah. Oh, she's precious. How fun. Very cool. We'll try not to scare a seven-week-old. There we go. Ready to scream debt-free, kiddo. I love it.

All right, Tyler and Sophie and Jensena, well done, you guys. There we go. Ready to scream debt-free, kiddo. I love it. All right, Tyler and Sophie and Jensen, well done, you guys. Very well done. $200,000 paid off in 36 months, making $89,000 to $150,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. Wow. What're dead free. Wow.

What a great story. What a great story. I love it. Man, they did everything. They didn't leave any, I mean, man, everything but plasma. I mean, it's just unbelievable. Wow. Well done.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Justin is on Facebook. Dave, I hear you talk a lot about rice and beans. Is that just an expression? Well, you know, it depends on what part of the country you're from. You know, I'm a hillbilly. I grew up, it was white beans and cornbread, right? That's what you eat.

It's broke people food, dude. What are you going to eat while you're broke and getting out of debt? So it's sort of an expression, but, you know, a lot of our listeners are in Texas. It's not really an expression there. It's what you do. You live on rice and beans, beans and rice. I heard people in Texas say that for a long time and from Southwest, anywhere else. I mean, I've heard it said, and that's where I picked it up. Somebody said it on the air one day.

I'm like, okay, it means we're going to put our lifestyle on scorched earth so we can get out of debt. We're not going out to eat, and we're certainly not eating filet mignon from Whole Paycheck. Not going over there and picking it up, you know. So it's a different thing. It's a different thing. That's what we call Whole Foods at our house, Whole Paycheck. It'll take your whole paycheck.

But anyway, yeah. Yeah. It is both literal and an expression. So there's your answer. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Thanks for being with us, America. Amanda is in Washington, D.C. Hi, Amanda. How are you? Hi. It's such a pleasure to talk to you.

You too. What's up? So I've got kind of an unusual situation. Fourteen years ago, I attended college, and like most kids, their parents say they'll pay for a chunk, and my parents did which was very kind of them and then I would assume the rest my rest came out to about forty five thousand dollars which was a hard realization when I got done and I'm actually still not done unfortunately but so my parents got divorced and my mom assumed the student loan. The $45,000 student loan?

No. She assumed what my parents were going to jointly pay. Oh, a parent plus loan. Yes, exactly. So my husband and I have been doing about 20. Okay. So that was their cap for me, and I thought that was very, very generous. And then I just took on the rest of it.

So my husband and I have paid on about $17,000 down from the start, and we've been doing financial peace for two years and just kind of, you know, praising the program. We've even taught the program, and we've been doing financial peace for two years and just kind of praising the program. We've even taught the program, and we love it. It's just been such a blessing. So every time we have a little bit of success, she reminds me that she still has one of my student loans and that once we get done with ours, we should probably start sending her money. Have you ever responded and said, Mom, that wasn't what you told me we were going to do?

Yes, and she says because finances have changed, she feels that it's unfair that we won't help her after we become debt-free. And it's a lot of emotional chaos because my husband and I are fighting hard to get out from under these. This is the last bit. We've got about $30,000. And what is your household income? My husband makes $117,000, and I homeschool our boys. Okay. And what does your mom make?

Honestly, I'm not 100% sure. I think it's around $30,000 a year. Okay, and what does your dad make? He is out of the picture completely and does not assist with anything. I know. I got that part, but he also was in on the promise to pay this. Yes, she refuses to be in contact with him do you know what he makes do you not have any contact with him no no it's been over 10 years since we've had any contact

okay unfortunately that's okay i mean it's not okay i'm sorry but i mean oh no it's fine yeah All right. Well, here's the thing. Your mom is emotionally unreasonable because she's broke. Okay. She's breaking her word. Okay. You didn't make a contract with her when you were 24 years old that said, Mom, thank you for the generosity of pig green to pick up twenty thousand dollars of this but if it ever gets bad you let me know and i'll pay it that was never said yeah and i mean we are very we're we have been extremely diligent with the 45 we're

whittling it down as fast as we can i know i I know. I got that. And so the thing is this. If you give your mom $20,000 to pay this off, it'll be in a lump sum. It will not go to your mother. It will go direct to the student loan, and it will be a little later from now when you're in really good shape and able to do that without any strain because this is a charitable gift okay it's not an obligation i really appreciate that it's it's been extremely stressful well the reason is she's a she's a travel agent for guilt trips and this isn't the only place she violates

boundaries oh yeah there's other places. Yeah. She just tramples all over fences whenever she wants and when it serves her well, whether it's with the grandkids or whatever it is. I mean, she's not a person who has good boundaries. And the problem is this. When someone feels entitled to walk on your property, you follow me? That's a boundary, right? Yeah, yeah. To cut across your yard.

When someone feels entitled to do that, as if it's public ground, then you tell them they can't, then they usually react pretty poorly. Yes. And it creates a lot of strain. Yeah, you can expect her, but listen, the way she reacts is her problem. It's not your problem. Okay. Because basically, here's the truth from what you told me.

If you told me something wrong, then something's different. But from what you told me, your mom made a promise that now she's breaking because she's broke. Yes. And she's trying to make it out like it's your fault and like you're a bad daughter or a bad person or ungrateful or something else if you don't give her money. Yeah, and she wants us to pay on the interest to get the creditor's offer back. And after taking your course, we're like, it's just basically burning money.

And my husband works hard. Now, if you guys choose to give her a twenty thousand dollar gift and pay this loan off you'll do it in a lump sum and you'll pay it in full after you have your emergency fund in place okay but it's not it's not in your baby this is not a baby step two because it's not a personal obligation just because she feels like it's an obligation of yours doesn't make it an obligation of yours. Yeah, after our loans are paid off, we want to start attacking retirement and stuff like that because we're behind. You're going to be okay. You're going to be okay. And your husband's

doing, he's got a good career and your mom doesn't make much money. She's broke. So if you want to help her, that would be the place to help her baby step 3b and beyond and uh but but in the meantime i don't think you're ever going to make her happy ever okay even when you pay this because she's got it'll be something else yeah she's got something else going on all the time so just get over the illusion that you know if i just pay this that this stress will go away no because she's going to come up with something else you know y'all are rich you ought to send me 200 a month just because a poor old lady can't get by over here you'd think if i had a daughter that made all this money that she'd be

grateful until you remember when i took care of her you'd think that oh my lord this is this is if that's not how she's saying it it's close it's yeah it's there's a lot of health issues and um there's things that should be taken care of that aren't and a lot of self-indulgences that shouldn't be happening and we're definitely sacrificing to you know for the betterment of our family you know what i might do is i might say mom i can't do this right now. And we've talked about it, and what we decided to do is after we get out of debt and get our emergency fund in place,

then we're going to pray about it and discuss it then. In the meantime, what I can do to help you is I can get you through Financial Peace University. We've offered it, and she refuses to take it. Yeah. So, Mom, I can go ahead and tell you that until you go through this class, we won't pay none of this ever under any circumstances. Not because I'm trying to sell the class, okay?

But because she needs to clean up her freaking mess not counting this loan. It's good for her. So I would tell her, listen, you can just say, I'm not going to do it at all ever. I'm not going to do it until Baby Step 3B, but I'm not going to do it at all, ever, if you don't go through the class. I'm going to let you wallow in it. You made the promise, and you're going to have to keep the promise. I'm sorry, Mom. I love you, but you and I are not in agreement on this situation.

So I'm going to send you a copy of the book by Henry Cloud. It's called Boundaries, and you desperately need to read it. You will laugh and cry while you're reading this book, and you will highlight virtually every page because it reads your all tea leaves, without a doubt. Thanks for calling in. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Dave, why did you take so much time with that call?

Because that happens like every day. Boundaries in grown members of families are violated and ask to be violated every day. Parents asking for kids to take care of them. Kids ask grown kids asking for parents to take care of them.

And these are all boundary violations created by some kind of form of entitlement. Someone feels entitled to your property. I'm not saying you shouldn't be generous. I'm not saying you shouldn't be kind. I'm not saying you shouldn't help family. But you shouldn't be forced to buy guilt trips.

That's not a proper, that's a toxic behavior pattern. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Once again, you made The Dave Ramsey Show one of the top five most downloaded podcasts last year. To get your daily dose of motivation and inspiration subscribe today