The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Let Your Inner Drama Queen Leave You Broke (Hour 3)

Episode Date: November 15, 2018

The show about you

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is your show, America. Thank you for joining us. The phone number is 888-825-5225 as we talk about your life and your money. Megan is with us in San Antonio. Hi, Megan. How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I am 40 years old, and it's always been my dream to buy a house in cash. And over the years I've been able to save up, you know, some of the money, but then things have come up where I've had to use it, like getting married or whatnot. And right now I've got $130,000 in savings. I don't have any other debt. I'm currently renting an apartment. And my question is whether or not I should just continue saving to be able to buy a house in cash. I'd like to be able to buy like a $350,000 to $400,000 home. Or should I just go ahead and buy the house now and pay interest?

I hate that so much, and I hate having to pay the bank money. So I just wanted to know what would be the better option financially. Okay. You're single? Yes, I'm single. And I have one daughter. She's two. And what is your income?

$120,000. Okay. And so to go from $130,000 in savings to $300,000 in savings, we need $180,000, right? Yep. If you're going to hit that goal. And how long does that take oh that would probably take a while i can i'm probably saving around i'm paying way too much right now in rent well if you pay if you did 60 000 a year it'd be three years if you did 90 000 a year it'd be two years if you did 45 000 a, it would be two years. If you did 45,000 a year, it would be seven years, six years, right?

Yeah. So, I mean, you just start doing some division, divide 180 by whatever you're going to save a year, and that starts to tell you. And then that starts to give you kind of a wake-up call. Because what you've got right now is you don't have a plan, and so you have a dream. A dream is a good place to start, but I want you to develop it into a plan. Let's call that a goal, meaning let's break it down and figure out how to achieve it. So there's three ways to get at this goal, okay?

Number one, you sit right where you are, and you save like crazy for X number of years, and you do the long division math, and you say, I need 180 more than I got now, and so that will put me at 310, right? And how long is it going to take me to get there? And we just sit here and save it, okay? That's possibility number one. Possibility number two is what you're calling about, and that's put 130 down on a house today

and pay it off in a certain number of years, hold our nose with a stench of debt in our nostrils and the pain of interest, right? But that's a possible thing, and you probably could pay that off in seven years. Right. You probably have paid four houses by the time you're 50 if you did that, and that would not put your face in the stupid column if we were putting you in a column, right? Right.

You'd still be a very conservative, very reasonable person to have done that. So that's fine, but I'm with you. I don't like the smell of that. I don't like the smell of that. I don't like the smell of debt. Third possibility that you didn't present is buy a $130,000 house now. That was what I was thinking as well. Pay cash for it. And in five years, with no house payments, move up to a $300,000 house and pay cash for it.

Okay. I love that idea. That was my original thought. Even if it's that idea, and that was my original thought. Even if it's a little condo, I don't care. It's not a forever house. It's a better than renting and better than having debt house. Right. Yeah, I bounced that off my family, and they said, you're crazy because you're not going

to be able to resell it. Oh, $100,000 houses sell all the time. They sell easier than $300,000 houses. There's more people can afford them. Okay. As long as it's clean and in a decent neighborhood. I mean, if they're shooting up and down the street, we can't do that. But you know what I'm talking about.

But you could get a really nice little condo in San Antonio for you and one child to live in for four years. And when you're 45 years old, you sell it. It will have gone up in value. And during that time, how much can you save in four years if you have no house payments? Now it starts to get real. That's what I'm doing if I'm in your shoes. Yeah, that's a much quicker way to do it, too. Yeah.

And I love your family, but they're broke. We don't need their financial advice. I know. They mean well. Okay. They mean well. But we don't take you know we don't take dieting advice from fat people either okay hey thanks for the call open phones at 888-825-5225 brett is with us in nashville hi brett how are you hi dave how you doing today

better than i deserve. What's up? I've got a little bit of a dilemma, kind of a financial dilemma, a personal dilemma. I'm going through basically a custody battle with my first wife, and my son lives about 25 minutes away from me. So I will not get permanent custody. So that means to spend more time with him, I would have to move closer to him, further away from my work, further away from my current wife's work. The problem is basically we're in baby step two.

We've got our $1,000. We've got more than $1,000 saved up. We have a home right now at about value of 150,000, but it's, sorry, value of 225,000. We owe 150,000. We've got about 50,000 in equity after closing costs and whatnot. I know we shouldn't be doing anything, but he is 12 years old. I only have six more years before he's off to college. So should I move closer to be with him or stay where I'm at and work the debt snowball to my debt and then move close to him? You could sell your house and rent and be closer to him.

I could, but, I mean, that's what I'm going to do. rent and be closer to him i could but i mean wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute you all you got all drama queen on me and acted like you were never going to see your freaking son because he's 25 minutes away if you didn't if you didn't move but now when i told you to move and rent then you went uh uh uh uh did you catch yourself doing that yeah yeah i caught my you're right i'm messing with you dude hey listen 25 minutes away he's not gonna kill you you can Did you catch yourself doing that? Yeah, yeah. I caught myself doing that. You're right. I'm messing with you, dude. Hey, listen, 25 minutes away is not going to kill you.

You can see him. But if it's really, really important to you and it's more important than money, which is fine with me. It's not a bad call to call your kid over money. I'd call that in a heartbeat. If I really think that living 15 minutes away instead of 25 minutes away changes my relationship with him then i'm moving and i'm renting until i can afford to buy something if you really do believe that i'm not sure you're not overstating it it doesn't sound like you're losing that much connectivity with him you're the 25 minutes away it's not the end of the world you're in the same county almost

or with close anyway so but if you want to, if it really, you know, if there's something tangible that you say, I got six years in order to have that extra 10 or 15 minutes closer, I'm willing to take a step back in my finances and rent something for a little while, use my equity to clean up my debt, and your current wife is willing to go along with that because she agrees with your prioritization of your time with him, then your current family takes a little bit of a step back, slows down some of your financial progress by renting for four years or three years. And by the way, you're debt free during that time because you use the equity to pay off

all your debts. Rent for a little while. Move closer. Or stay where you are and drive the 25 minutes because it's probably not going to kill him or you. Either one of those is fine. But to couch this that you have to move and you have to buy or you lose your relationship with your son is overstating it. That's what I was calling you on. And you were using words that said that's where it was in your heart.

So I'm picking on you a little bit because it is very, very important to do this, but do it with logic. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I get asked all the time, when in the baby steps is the right time to buy life insurance? My answer is typically now. Life insurance is not part of the baby steps because it's needed when your family has debt and not enough savings to provide for their financial needs. That's when they're at the highest risk. And no matter where you are in your baby steps, it's a necessity, not a choice. This includes working husbands and wives, as well as stay-at-home parents. It's pretty expensive to replace those stay-at-home parent responsibilities. I only recommend term life insurance since it's the most affordable way to get the right amount of coverage and not break your budget.

Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. These are the guys I personally use. Term life insurance is inexpensive and your family needs this no matter where you are Thank you for joining us, America. Glad you're here. Okay, I can already hear it. It's vibrating on Twitter. Doug Ramsey's a jerk. He was picking on that dad who wanted to be with his kid.

Let's stop a second, okay? The number one thing you can do with your life is make sure your family's taken care of. Here's what I've experienced in 30 years of financial coaching and in my personal experience with the guy in my mirror. We all have a drama queen in us. Every one of us. And when we want something, the drama queen takes the form of a four-year-old kid on the cereal aisle throwing a fit.

You ever seen that kid? His little face gets red, and he demands cereal, or his life is coming to an end. And the biggest mistakes I have made with money, and the biggest mistakes I have observed you guys out there make with money, like your marriage or your children or adoption or in vitro or fill in the blank, taking care of my special needs child. Some unbelievably very important high calling. And you use that in your emotions, I've used it in my emotions, in drama queen mode, to box myself into two possible decisions with money. One serves the purpose of the nobility, takes care of the child,

serves the marriage, whatever it is, and the other one serves money. And so you put yourself in this false dichotomy that says, the only way to not choose money over my family is to choose this stupid financial choice. And so I'm having my third child. We don't have room for a car seat. I have a $4,000 Honda, so I go and buy a $45,000 SUV. I was forced to buy that car for the good of my children. They would not have been safe otherwise.

Have you ever heard that call on this show? If you've been listening to the show for a while, you've heard that call. I've taken that call 100 times in the last two years, 100 times. I was forced to do something for the good of my child that is absolutely freaking ludicrous and stupid. But because of my drama queen self has boxed myself into a corner, I am forced to do something that is absolutely freaking makes Congress look smart. I mean, it's just stupid on steroids. I'm forced to do something that is dumb, dumb, dumb with money.

Oh, but it's okay because it's for adoption. Oh, but it's okay because it's for in vitro. Oh, but it's okay. The child has special needs. Oh, but it's okay because it's for adoption. Oh, but it's okay because it's for in vitro. Oh, but it's okay the child has special needs. Oh, but it's okay it's to be with my son. Oh, but my marriage wouldn't have survived if I hadn't done that. Dave Ramsey was going to cost me my marriage. Horse crap. Seriously.

Now, are marriages important? Absolutely. Are special needs important? Yes, absolutely. Is adoption important? Oh, yes. Nothing's marriages important? Absolutely. Are special needs important? Yes, absolutely. Is adoption important? Oh, yes. Nothing's more important than kids. I got grandkids.

That might be the only thing that's more important than kids. I'll just tell you, we kept Rachel's two this weekend. I got a nine-month-old, and Papa Dave had a blast this weekend. If I'd have known how great grandkids are going to be i'd have been nicer to their parents seriously i am not saying these are not valid noble callings they are the most valid the most noble callings what i am saying is is that your decision-making paradigm breaks down when you start saying stupid stuff and when i start saying stupid stuff and i have said it too like i was forced to do this or my child is going to be in the street i had to go eighty four thousand dollars into credit card debt to pay the attorneys or i was going to lose the custody battle

maybe not maybe there's another way to skin the cat. Maybe I don't have to buy a $45,000 SUV for my children to be safe in a vehicle. Maybe I can rent my house. Maybe I don't have to buy the $38,000 international adoption bill, which is too much to pay for an international adoption. Maybe I start searching out some other options to my decision other than one that's good for the children and one and it's financially stupid. Or one is where we abandon the children and it's financially smart. So, Dave, you wouldn't have his trade money for children, would you? No,

I really wouldn't. But you're not going to put me in that false dichotomy, that false box that causes me to ensure your stupidity. I've been there. I've done stupid stuff in the name of nobility. And my drama queen, four year old self inside of me told me it was the only way to do it. And let me tell you, when you make those kinds of financial decisions, they set you back a decade and it does more harm to your family than the thing you were trying to protect your family from. Because you end up working all the time just to pay bills that you couldn't afford to take out. Because you bought crap, you made mistakes with money you could not afford to make. And if you are sitting there and you are hearing me say, choose children over money, you are not listening and you are a drama queen. Right now you're living in drama queen mode, if you're hearing that right now.

I'm not saying that. I am saying C, none of the above. A, pick money. B, pick the nobility of family and children over money and make a stupid decision. I'm saying C, none of the above. Find another way to skin the cat. Find another way to make the decision. Find another way to serve your family and maybe make less progress financially,

but not justify, rationalize with your four-year-old self on a cereal aisle a major stupid financial decision that's going to set you back a decade or two. Buying crap you can't afford and rationalizing it with the nobility of your family will take you to your knees financially and keep you there. Your children are not going to die if they sleep in the same bedroom. Your children are not going to die if there's only one television in the house for them to watch.

Your children are not going to die, dot, dot, dot. I grew up in a 1,000 square foot home, and I made it just fine. And it was a great home, by the way. Think about this. Most families in 1960 had one car of course there was no internet and you could not pull something out of your pocket and order something from anywhere around the world be delivered to you in about in two days either which there's nothing wrong with modern conveniences but the point is folks our lifestyles are quadruple what they were in 1970

the quality of life that we have is way up and yet we go into drama queen mode and justify expensive purchases or dumb purchases that we cannot afford in the name of some nobility. And there was another way to be noble and take care of that child. There was another way to be noble and take care of that marriage. Because we used to do it without those purchases. How did we make it before airbags? I don't know. I used to sleep in the back window of the car, and when they slammed on the brakes, we rolled into the floor.

Y'all remember that? Anybody old enough? Well, I'm not saying, you know, that's kind of dangerous. Well, yeah, but, I mean, we survived it. Not suggesting we go back there, but this idea that your child is going to automatically die if you don't have a brand new car with side window airbags, give me a break. Seriously. Especially for a short term. If you'll live like no one else, later you get to live and give like no one else. I just

don't want to give up that much of that time with my family. Maybe there's another way to spend time with your family. Maybe when much of that time with my family. Well, maybe there's another way to spend time with your family. Maybe when you're spending time with your family, you turn off the television and actually spend time with your family. Oh, there's a neat idea. See, we drama queen this up, and we use a noble calling, which are valid noble callings. Nothing invalid about the calling. Invalid way to accomplish the calling. Devastating our family financially with this rationalization.

That's what I was calling out on that guy. That's a good guy. He loves his son. He's a good man. We need men that love their sons. That's good. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down?

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Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Dave and Ashley are with us, one of our own. Dave just joined us about a month ago. Welcome, guys. How are you? Thanks, Dave. Doing well, thanks.

Great. So you've been here a whole month, and now you're ready to do your debt-free scream. We are. We're excited. Very cool. So how much have you paid off? $17,000 total in eight months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? We paid off our debt with the income from my previous job,

so I can share that. And that was about $42,000. Okay, very cool. Good for you guys. So what kind of debt was this? This was two cars and one very small credit card fun so how long have you and ashley been married five and a half years all right yeah very cool so what happened 17 months ago tell us the story because you end up even working here as one of our stewardship advisors working with churches getting financial peace university going? Yeah. So for us, I mean, money had always been a contentious topic. It was never something that was easy to talk about. And if we did, actually, we weren't talking about it. We were yelling at each other.

I don't know anybody like that. So for us, I actually took Financial Peace back when it was 13 weeks long in 2008 myself. I was young. I was 17 years old, living at home with my parents. And at the time, I remember it being great information, but I was young. I still acted like a 17-year-old. Sure. So a lot of what I learned then went in one ear and out the other.

And for us, we retook financial peace together for the first time eight months ago. Oh, wow. And that's when it was completely life-changing for us. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Very cool. So you did that as part of coming on board here then?

Yeah. Well, actually, I'll back up a little bit. When we first moved here two and a half years ago from Rochester, New York. Oh, I'm sorry. You've only been here one month? Oh, my gosh. I got that wrong. We've lived in Nashville for two years.

I mean, you've been on our team for one month. I've been only on your team for one month. And when we moved here, being part of this team here at Ramsey Solutions was a goal of mine. I knew that that's where I wanted to be, even though I was transferring here from a different company. So we knew what we wanted. We knew we had goals. And the debt thing, it took a little bit

for us to really choose to face it and pay it all off. And we actually got hooked up with Parker Rausch, who's also on my team. And he led our class back in May. And that was our journey here. Very cool. Very cool. Ashley, what do you do? I am a stay-at-home mom and I have a jewelry shop

on Etsy. So I'm a small business owner. Very cool. Good for you. Thank you very much. Very neat. Now, where did you guys move from before you moved to Nashville? We were in Rochester, New York. Cold and expensive. I love it. Very cool.

Good, good. So now you're on the phone with somebody at a church, and they're thinking about being a coordinator. And they go, so tell me your story. What did you do to get out of debt? Tell us what the keys to getting out of debt that you guys picked up and actually applied to pay off this debt, Ashley and Dave. Sure. So I'll start. For us, it was getting on the same page.

We were working against each other for a very long time, and that wasn't even just around the topic of money. In fact, two years ago, we were separated, and money was a very small issue. There were several issues, but money just continued to divide us. And at the time, I was working as a server, and holding on to cash was difficult. For us, it was being on the same page. I mean, when we were separated and decided to come back together and face this together

and work together through all of this, money was just one of the many giants that we had to defeat. Yeah. And for us, it was being on the same page,

agreeing that we have to fix this if we want to win it at being married. Yeah, absolutely. Amen. Well, what a great transformation, you guys.

Congratulations. Thank you. Feels good. It does Well, what a great transformation, you guys. Congratulations. Thank you. Feels good. It does. It's a big journey. It does. It's a gut-wrenching journey, but it's worth taking. So well done.

Very well done. And you got the three kiddos with you to do the debt-free scream. We do. And what are their names and ages? We have Lucia. She's four and a half. And then we have August. He'll be three on Friday.

All right. And then we have baby Freya, be three on Friday. Alright. And then we have baby Freya and she just turned four months old. Alright. With the golden shoes. Oh yeah. I love it. And the golden headband. So Midas touch. The whole bit. That's it. I love it. Very cool. Well congratulations you guys and

welcome to our team. Thank you Dave. And we're glad you're part of this family now and we're very very proud of you. I'm sure your parents and everybody to our team. Thank you, Dave. And we're glad you're part of this family now, and we're very, very proud of you. I'm sure your parents and everybody around you is. Sounds like you've gone through quite a journey. We have. Yes. And we're glad to be where we are now.

Absolutely. It's a good place to land. And looking at you, it looks like a good family tree that was worth changing. Absolutely. Good stuff. All right. It's Dave and Ashley, Lucia, August, and Freya, all right here from Nashville, part of our team. $17,000 paid off in eight months, making $42,000 a year back then.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Ready? Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Awesome! Awesome! Way to go, you guys.

Very well done. Of course, the team gathers around. They're all going wild. Love it. Love it, love it, love it. One of our own. Even if he has been here a whole month. Love it.

Congratulations, you guys. One of our own. Even if he has been here a whole month. Love it. Congratulations, you guys. Very good stuff. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee, which means that even if you mismeasure, you pick the wrong color, they will remake your window blinds for free if you goof up. That's not bad right there. Now, with Blinds.com, you also get free samples, free shipping, and with the two new promos they run every month, you save even more if you use the promo code Ramsey.

Ramsey. Check it out. Today's question comes from Keith in Indiana. My parents live 700 miles from me, and they're broke. They're 69 and 65 years old with no long-term care or life insurance. I can't afford to pay for their insurance right now. How can I best prepare for what could be a future disaster? Well, the long-term care insurance will be provided by welfare, which is called Medicaid,

and you get nursing home provided by the government if you are in poverty, and it sounds like they are, and you qualify. And so, yeah, nursing home, government-provided nursing home, and you get what you pay for for but that's what they're looking at as far as long-term care insurance goes as far as life insurance goes they don't have any and you can't buy it on them probably and even if you could you're not in a position to do that right now so the only thing you can do to get ready to cover stuff like burial costs or other things that you may want to do or need to do within reason

is for you to get your financial act together. And that means that, you know, you get out of debt. You work the baby steps. You build your emergency fund. You build wealth. Because here's the thing. The weak can't help the weak. the infirm can't help the infirm it takes strength to be gentle and that includes financial and so financially

one of the reasons to build wealth when we say change your family tree um i mean sometimes that's not just the kids and the grandkids following you sometimes that's other family members that you want to be in a position to help or other friends you want to be in a position to help you can't do that when you're broke all you got then is wishes i mean hungry kids are not fed by broke people that's what it comes down to if you want to help starving children, you want to help charities and ministries in your area or around the world that do wonderful things, then the best way to do that is have some money to do it with.

It really is the best way to do that. It changes the whole equation. So the best way you can do, get yourself in a position to avoid disasters and or be a blessing to people that you care about, things you care about, is get yourself financially squared away. That's all money's good for. It's not good for anything else. I don't mind you getting some nice stuff, but the highest and best use of money is serving people with it, including your own family. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 57, 14,

and it shall be said, Build up, build up, prepare the way, remove every obstruction from my people's way. William Blake said, great things are done when men and mountains meet. This would be true. One of the things we do at Ramsey Solutions is we specialize in going into an area and doing what people say can't be done. I just kind of like messing with that. It can't be done.

Oh, that means we need to be there. That's someplace we need to go. Love it. Zachary is with us in Grand Forks, Minnesota. Hey, Zachary, how are you? Hi. My question is how to create a good business plan for my company that breaks my company free from my father's company.

I need to explain a little bit. My father's company is an electrician, or he's an electrician by trade, and I'm an electrical engineer, and I do all the automation work for his customers. So it's like I'm a complement to the electrician's customers. So he does automation. So he does, like, commercial electrician? Industrial. Industrial.

Mainly we service grain elevators. Basically I program to run the entire plant from a computer and then he goes in and wires it yeah he does all the wiring so i i've established a couple other electricians as my customers and my now when one of those electricians uses you do they pay you or does the plant pay you um normally at the beginning if it's a new project the electrician pays me and then from there on out a lot of times the plant will pay me with my father i always remain like he is my customer and his customers pay him so i've left it that way but it depends on what the electrician wants to do. Does your father pay you a salary now?

Are you an employee of his? No, I'm an employee of my company, Rooster Tech. So your father is merely a customer of your company already. Correct. It just has different terms than your other customers. Yeah. Okay. What would be wrong with changing the terms of your relationship with your father's company to be like your other customers? What would be wrong with what?

Okay. Your other customers pay you, and then later on the plant pays you, right? Yeah. What would be wrong with changing your father's your relationship between your company and your father's company to be the same way as your other customers okay yeah that makes sense yeah i was just thinking like what would my plan be down when he retires to keep those relationships with his customers but also have a different electrician. You know, when he retires, what's he going to do with his company?

That's up in the air right now. Yeah, it's up to him. I'm not sure if... What would happen if one of your other customers retired? Well, right now, mainly, well, the one customer I might lose, I could possibly lose the plant relationship, but the other customer I'm already working directly with the plant and the electrician. What I would do if I were in your shoes, set your dad aside for a second. If you have one customer you're going to keep the plant one where you don't then i'm going to start working with the plant that i don't and develop that relationship

in case that guy retires and closes up shop or he sells his business to someone else upon his retirement who doesn't want to use you i want to be able to keep my customer the plant if i'm you right so in every case you need to develop long-term relationships with the plant to keep a transition at retirement of any of your customers from causing you to lose the plant does that make sense yeah so try to establish that relationship with the end user yeah it's an end run it's an end run directly to the customer so that you don't lose your customer, the plant, because the electrician decided he was going to close up shop or sell his shop to some guy who's unfriendly to you. Okay.

And now just apply that to your dad's situation then. Yeah. Same exact thing, right? Yeah. You just treat him like any other customer. You've got to build a strategy that helps you survive in the event that he closes or sells to an unfriendly. Mm-hmm. But you're not going to get in the electrician's business. No.

It's not what you do. Right. So your dad's company is merely a customer of yours. You've just got a little bit of a weird relationship that you need to straighten the wire out on no pun intended right and so we need to get dad on the same probe dad's company on the same program as the other companies which is you pay me initially and after that i develop my own direct relationship with the plant in case you go sideways later and that's what i do with all my customers by the way yeah and you're just like the rest of them and if he doesn't want to work that way then it'd be like any other customer that didn't want

to work that way that doesn't work for you okay what ends up clouding things here is is is what i'm walking you through is to treat him just like everybody else and as good as everybody else but also not any different than anybody else he has no power over you different than other people and so what we're doing here is we're taking his dad hat off and we're putting a hat on his head that doesn't say dad it says customer right and you look at his customer hat just like it you look at one of your other customers' hats, and you treat them like they're a customer. You treat them well.

You serve them. You do a great job for them. And you develop a strategy that if they go belly up, you don't lose the plant. And we do that with all my customers. And then when you're eating Thanksgiving dinner and you're looking across the table at your dad, you don't see a customer hat. You see a dad hat. He changed hats but don't let him wear his dad hat at work or his customer hat at thanksgiving dinner

so and then i guess on a weird twist we like we trade labor a lot because there's times where i get a call and i just say i could use your help with this one i don't know if that that's on a little bit different side note from my question. Well, it's the same thing, though. Let's say you had a customer that wasn't your dad that sometimes needs your help, and you jump in and trade labor with them. Not a big deal. It's still just a business transaction.

But the thing that clouds this up and causes you to not see it clearly, Zachary, is you're looking at the wrong hat. And I've had to learn to do that when I'm working with family, when I'm working with good friends that are on my team. I've got my kids work on my team. But I look at my son-in-law. He runs all of our real estate. He's running a huge $50 million project right now. And he's doing a great job but when i look at him in those meetings i see construction project manager on a major real estate investment of mine i don't see my son-in-law

and i treat him like a construction project manager with all the dignity and with all the responsibility and the accountability and then when we're you know doing something else out at the farm, killing innocent paper plates with a pistol, then that's my son-in-law I'm hanging out with. I'm not looking at him as the project manager for a construction company. I'm looking at him as my son-in-law. So you trade hats.

You just visualize those hats in different situations, and it'll keep you from getting lost in the fog of the relationship while you're trying to do business or getting lost in the fog of business when you should be doing a relationship called being with your dad. And you don't want to mistreat. You don't want to treat your dad better. You want to treat him better, but not a lot better.

And you don't want to treat him worse than you would any other customer. And he shouldn't expect things of you just because you're kin. You ought to expect things of you because he's your customer. And when you look at it that way and view it, it changes the whole equation. So just remember to trade hats. Change hats. Thanksgiving dinner, you wear a different hat than you wear at work. When I'm at work, I'm the CEO of Ramsey Solutions.

I'm the senior of the Ramsey personalities. And so when I'm working with the personalities, whether it's Chris Hogan or whether it's my daughter, Rachel Cruz, they're treated the same way, they're critiqued the same way by me. And then when I'm with my daughter, Papa Dave at home, right? You change your hat back. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. We will be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there is ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Kelly, Dave's phone screener. We finished 2017 with a bang as the fourth most downloaded podcast of the year. Thanks to all of you for listening and helping us spread the word.