The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Make Big Decisions When You're Grieving (Hour 2)

Episode Date: August 5, 2019

Anthony ONeal, Debt, Home Buying, Budgeting   Tools to get you started: Debt Calculator: http://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: http://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: http://bit.ly/2QEyonc Interview Guide: http://bit.ly/2BuGnZE   Check out other podcasts in the Ramsey Network: http://bit.ly/2JgzaQR 

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Open phones this hour. At the bottom of the hour, Anthony O'Neill, Ramsey personality. And one of our top guys in the whole youth space will be joining us.

And if you want to talk to him about teenagers, you are a teenager. They're about college students, the unique things they face, then you can get on the phones now. 888-825-5225. He'll be with us at the bottom of the hour. By the way, he is coming on at the bottom of the hour with a very, very special announcement. We are so excited.

So be sure you stay tuned and we'll keep you up to date with every bit of that. So 888-825-5225. John is in Pennsylvania. Hey, John, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, thank you very much for having me.

My buddy Ray turned me on to your show a couple weeks ago, and it's kind of changed my perspective. I want to be weird. Cool. But I started the process of refinancing my mortgage with the hopes of rolling in my student loans into it. And my house didn't appraise for quite as much as I thought, so I don't have the equity to roll in the student loans. But it is a 1% less interest rate than I'm currently on.

So I was wondering whether I should go through with it or back out. If you're going to stay in the house and your break-even is good, then I would probably go through with it. So out because if you're going to stay in the house and your break even is good um then i would probably go through with it so what's your loan balance uh 263 000 okay so 2600 a year savings is one percent okay what's the closing cost estimate uh It was like $14,000. $14,000? Yeah, with everything. Yeah, it seems really expensive. And I started looking at it, and it would be like four to five years. What's the points on that?

How many points? One and a half. That's still very high. Wow. Wow. Wow, that's steep. Yeah, a five-year break-even doesn't make sense usually. Usually we try to say a four-year or a three-year or less break-even because so much happens in five years. The average home sells every 6.6 years and is refinanced every 5.7 years.

So, you know, typically five years just doesn't make sense because most people are i'm not saying you're going to move but on average people move so no i wouldn't do that if you got if you can't figure out a way to get the closing cost down on that i would not do that deal that's too long a break even you see what i'm doing i mean yeah yeah it makes sense i mean i don't know how much time we have because i don't want to complicate the situation too much but i actually already moved out of the house because of a job situation and it's fully rented at this time and it's out of town yeah yeah it's about an hour and a half away because i'm i'm in philadelphia now

the the house is back in new jersey okay i don I don't do long-distance landlording. So, no, I'm not refinancing this house at all. And as soon as the next lease is up, I'm selling it. Okay. And that gets your money out. And if you've got any equity in there, you can get it out that way. But, yeah, I would not have a rental property a residential rental property an hour and a half away you did not set out for this to be a rental property it turned

into a rental property by default with your life changes and i wouldn't keep it is it a month to month rental or a lease or what uh it's it's a year-long lease yeah but i have there you're stuck in there for a year no i would definitely would not refinance this definitely not because you're not going to keep this house um if i'm you i'm out of there as soon as that lease is up and so yeah that that makes it real easy all right up next is going to be aaron and what i do there let me try again aaron is in colorado hey aaron welcome to the dave ramsey Hey, Dave, it's an honor to speak to you. You too. What's up? So, first of all, I just want to share that my wife and I, we were just entering baby step four. Good. We paid off around, yeah, paid off around $80,000 of debt due to your

teaching, and so we're incredibly thankful for you. In addition to that, part of the story I wanted to ask your advice on is we've been struggling with infertility and multiple miscarriages over the course of our marriage. We've been married around six years. And so where we are right now, and first of all, if we weren't for your teaching, we honestly would be in a lot more of a mess than, than what we are right now. So thank you. Um, financially. So, um, where we are right now is that the multiple, um, specialists we've talked to said that surrogacy is actually our best course of action if we want to have our own genetic children. And by the grace of God, my wife's sister has offered to

be a surrogate for us, which is a huge, huge thing. And so my question is this. The issue is that there's actually a time limit on when this could happen because of my Karen's sister's age. It would have to take place in 2020, and there's certain things that we need to do through IVF that would begin at the end of this year. And my question is, how do we face this knowing that we will probably be able to cash flow some, but it is still a very expensive procedure and we just need advice to know how to navigate this next year and a half or so. So what's your household income? Our household income is around $120,000. And do you have any debt left now other than your home? No, sir. Okay, that's great. And you paid off how much? $80,000. And how long did that take? Took about three years. And just like you teach, Dave, what you got is L-intense, and we were actually making around $60,000, around, yeah, $60,000 or $70,000 household tents and we were actually making around 60,000 uh around yeah 60 or 70,000

household income while we were paying off that debt and uh we actually our income increased after we paid off the debt so that's wonderful that's wonderful yeah okay so what are the expenses what's the budget on this process we're likely looking at there's uh there's the retrieval from Karen, and then we would basically, they would fertilize the eggs, and then there's sending the eggs over to where she lives. All of that happens in November, which that would be, you know, we're looking at $12,000 for that. Twelve? Around twelve for that. Okay. All right.

Cool. dollars for that 12 um around 12 for that and and and then the total cost of the whole process is probably looking around 35 to 40 thousand dollars okay so you need 12 and then you're going to need about 24 more give or take yeah um over a from from now over a year period of time yes sir yes sir you realize that's about how much debt you paid over a year period of time? Yes, sir. You realize that's about how much debt you paid off a year? Yes, sir. Okay. So you can cash flow this?

Okay. You just did this. You just did 24 a year. I mean 36 a year. You can do this. Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. No, I'm not borrowing money, but I think this is very, very important.

It's so important I'm putting everything in my life on hold. I'm working six jobs. I'm selling whatever we haven't already sold to get out of debt. And we're going to be on the tightest budget you can ever dream. So we have $12,000 by November and $24,000 whenever we need it right after that. But I think you can cash flow this. I think it's doable, especially since it's so important. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

I got a call the other day, and I thought it was worth talking about again. It was from a wife looking for life insurance for her family. She asked why I only recommend term life insurance instead of cash value plans like whole life. I usually explain how you overpay for coverage, earn a horrible rate of interest, and don't get your cash value when you die. But this time, I just had her go straight to Zander.com and get a rate. And then we compared that rate to the whole life plan, and she immediately saw the huge savings. She realized all the things she could do with that

money like paying down debt, investing in a smarter way. That made it real for her. It makes no sense to buy or keep a cash value plan when there are smarter, less expensive ways to protect your family. That's why I suggest that everyone go to Zander.com or call them at 800-356-4282 and get a free quote. That's Zander.com or 800-356-4282. Rolanda is with us in Virginia. Hi, Rolanda. How are you? Hi, I'm doing great. How about yourself?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Yes, sir. I just got about $500,000 in life insurance from the death of my husband. Oh, my Lord. Yes, and it's just me and my son, and I'm a stay-at-home mom, and I'm just trying to figure out what to do next. Wow. How old was he?

He was 27. What happened? He just got into a bad place. Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh, my goodness. And how old's your baby? He's four. Oh, baby. I'm sorry.

How long ago was this? Six, eight weeks? Three months. Hmm? Three months. Three months, yeah. Okay. Okay.

Do you have family around you in close proximity? Not yet. I'm actually moving back with family in a couple days. Cool. Where's that? Back in Texas. Okay. And how wise is your family with money? Very wise. Okay. That's good news. Okay. And you're going to just stay with mom for a little while while you get where you can breathe again Yes sir

Okay Because it takes a while just to breathe again I mean you and I just met And I'm having trouble breathing with this story Wow Okay so here is my preference How old are you? I'm 26.

Okay. So you're the age of my kids, and I've got grandbabies your baby's age. Okay? So if you were my daughter, here's what I would tell you to do. Okay? Mm-hmm. Do as little as possible with this money until you can breathe. Try not to make big decisions while you're in the fog,

because humans hurt when stuff like this happens. Unless you're a psychopath, you're hurting. And so give yourself some room to hurt. And don't try to make big decisions while you can't breathe. Is that logical to you? Yes, sir. There is no race for you to become a financial wizard. Okay? So if you just take this money and put it in a savings account and don't touch it, that

wouldn't make me mad at all for six months. Now, I don't know if you can do that or not. I mean, you may have to do a few things with money here or there. I mean, you may have some funeral expenses. You may have some moving expenses. You may have a few things, some debts or something that you want to clear up. But try not to make major decisions and certainly don't start using this money on a spending spree, okay? Yes, sir.

So just pretend like it's not there. I think I'm hearing that your mom and dad can take care of you for a little while and give you a place to live and some food, right? Yes, sir. Okay. Now, and, you know, so write a few checks and clean up the details. Don't just let stuff sit, right? I mean, go ahead and do business properly.

But you do not need to become an investment wizard. You do not need to think about buying a house. You do not need to think about spending money going back to school for six months because you've got it covered. Mom and Dad got you covered, and you won't have to touch this money. Am I correct about that? Yes, sir. Give yourself a little room, okay? And the fog will start to lift. The thing about grief is

the further from the event you get, the clearer your mind gets. There'll always be a place that hurts because you love and you'll always look at your gets. There'll always be a place that hurts because you love, and you'll always look at your baby, and you'll always see him, and that'll always be there, but your brain will just work better over time. And I just want you to, you know, I don't want to expect you to be fully functional. You'd be weird if you were fully functional today. Does that make sense?

Yes, sir. So give yourself some grace to just cry. Because it kind of comes at you in waves, doesn't it? Yes, sir. Yeah. Okay. So take your time. Then when the fog starts to lift, you can call me back.

Or what I'm going to do is put you on hold, and Madison is going to hook you up with maybe one of our, not maybe, we will. We're going to hook you up with one of our financial coaches so that in a few weeks, no rush, you can sit down with them. It will be no charge to you. We do not charge widows. Okay? Thank you.

And this is a coach that's been trained by us. They don't work for us, but they've been trained by us. They're in Texas. They'll sit down with you as our gift to you and begin to help you kind of comb through some ideas of what you can do. If you were to invest this money or use a little of it to buy a house and then invest the rest, that would be wise. All of that would be good. The thing you don't want to do is get into grief spending, which is spending so I feel better,

and I look up and I've got a $500,000 set of regret because I burned through this money. But I'm thinking that your mom and dad will help you a little bit with that because you were raised in a family that doesn't do that kind of thing, and they'll be there to kind of hold you accountable lovingly. Is that okay? I was raised in a church. Exactly, do that kind of thing, and they'll be there to kind of hold you accountable lovingly. Is that okay? I was raised in a church, so. Exactly.

And a great church as well to wrap their arms around you and give you a good hug. Yeah. And so just take your time. There's no rush. It's okay if you do virtually nothing for six months. It'd be okay if you did virtually nothing for a year. You're going to be okay. Because you've got the rest of your life to goof around with this $500,000, okay?

And there's a lot of stuff you can do with it. College, it's fun for the baby. You can invest some of it. You could pay cash for a little house there in Texas or, you know, and, you know, have some money left to invest and that kind of stuff. You can make some decisions like that later. Please don't make those now. Does that sound like it rings truth to you?

Yes, sir. Okay. I'm so sorry. Thank you. I'll put you on hold, and Madison will pick up, and we'll get you hooked up with one of our coaches as our gift, and we'll walk with you through this. Man, it's tough.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Coming up at the bottom of the hour, Anthony O'Neill joins us with a big announcement, Ramsey Personality. If you want to talk to Anthony and you've got questions about college, questions about high school, questions about teens, those kinds of things. Then you jump in right now. The phone number is 888-825-5225. And as I said, we've got an announcement.

Anthony and I are both just about to burst. We're just having so much fun. We're just excited right now. There's so much going on around here. And this is huge. It's a big deal. I'm so jacked. Richard is with us.

Is it Richard? Yeah, okay. All right. Maybe not. Okay. No, I'm not going there. That's a college call. So let's see here.

I'm going to go to Stephanie, and Stephanie is in Alabama. Hi, Stephanie. Well, that's a college call, too. Oh, well. I'm going to go to Stephanie, and Stephanie is in Alabama. Hi, Stephanie. Well, that's an Edgum College call, too. Oh, well, I know, but that's good. Thank you. I know that. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in.

We'll talk about your life and your money. Dave, I've got a couple of life insurance policies on myself, which are universal life policies, and I feel I am paying too much for the coverage. Sure you are. It's a universal life policy. By definition, I am paying too much for the coverage. Sure you are. It's a universal life policy. By definition, you're paying too much. I also have $150,000 in variable, which I pay $370 a month for. Good God, you're being eat alive, Donald, on Facebook.

No, you need to go get some term life insurance, 15 to 20-year level term for the amount that we suggest, which is about 10 to 12 times your income on you. Once that is in place, then you need to drop this trash, and you're going to find an amazing amount of extra money in your checking account when you do that. That's going to just make so much more sense to you. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in.

As I said, Anthony's going to join us here at the bottom of the hour. Those of you with college questions, there's a couple of you on hold. We'll jump in and get you in here, and we've got a big special announcement coming up. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. We've been voted one of the best places to work in Nashville 11 times. You want to know how we do it? Well, our team has been using LinkedIn jobs for years to find the best people from all over the country to come and help us change lives. Think about it. LinkedIn has more than 600 million active members.

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and get $50 off your first job post. That's linkedin.com slash ramsey terms and conditions apply i don't know if you guys out there have heard but in america today there's a student loan crisis. There's a plague in the land. And I'm sitting here with the antidote to the plague. We have the vaccine. We have the science. We can solve this, America.

Anthony O'Neill, Ramsey Personality, is here to join us. We are announcing today the launch of, what is this you're doing here? The number one best-selling book in the world, Dave. That's it. It's going to be better than ever today the launch of what is this you're doing here the number one best-selling book in the world dave that's it it's gonna be better in the history of mankind there we go more than a total money makeover whoa whoa you just i've been called out here but no it is um i believe dave this is the book that's going to change parents and our future students live it's called debt-free degree and this book is a step-by-step guide to get our kids, our

future generation in college 100% debt free. So not just in, but also through college. No student loans. Debt Free Degree. Yeah. By best-selling author Anthony O'Neill. Good looking cover too, man. That's a good man. I like that. Zoom in on that, you guys.

Please do. Get that on YouTube. This is really looking good there a little bit closer yeah yeah closer to you look it kind of looks like him that is that's him yeah look at that i love that man way to go dude debt free degree it is a great book and it's not just the stuff we have talked about for years uh and it it is those things of how you can go through school debt-free based on college choice and some of the other things. But it's also a lot of, it gives you like a game plan. This is one of the things I love about the approach you all took on this. You and the team working in this,

I was in some of the meetings watching it come together, watching the creative come together on the content. And this idea of here's what you do when you're in the eighth grade. Walk us through that. Yes. Eighth, ninth, tenth. I mean, you had a whole game plan up until they go to school. Yeah, absolutely.

Even starting in seventh grade. Okay. So we start right back in the seventh grade all the way up to the twelfth grade. And the seventh grade and eighth grade is really about just starting preparing their minds for college. Okay. So they really can't go after that much scholarship but we want to start preparing their minds okay you know when i get into high school my freshman year the classes that i take taking the practice um exams from sat to act they are important so we tell you what to do in seventh grade how to start building their resume earlier on and then it just really goes into full force

once they get into high school so we you know ap classes give you college credit yes you don't have to pay to go that's class because you don't need to go you got credit yes sir yes sir and so we literally show them in the ninth grade here are the classes you need to be taking and so not just the classes but here are the extracurricular activities that you should be taking you should take the practice exam here you should do this here so we literally walk them through every step on what you need to do to prepare in college from freshman senior junior sophomore year you name it and it's not it is the financial part but it's the whole thing because the whole thing's overwhelming we had several people in the

leadership team um you know suzanne jeremy some of the some of our operating board members that were speaking into this and they were like we just went through this putting our kid through school and it's just a dadgum barrel of fish hooks man you need a map to the party you really this is your map to the party debt-free degree the step-by-step guide to getting your kid through college without student loans and for that matter without a bunch of other crazy stuff there's just everything in the world out there and you address a bunch of it in this book uh it's a quick read it varies very is. It's an easy read. Yeah.

But some of the key points, if you just said, okay, if we were going to summarize a little bit the book, what are some of the key points? If you're going to do something to go through school debt-free, what's the biggest two or three things you've got to do? Here's the very, very, very first thing is, Dave, you've got to have a plan. You've got to go to an affordable school. One thing I talk about in the book is that your dream school is an affordable school. An affordable school is, hey, it could be a community college or a trade school.

We really go after. Could be in-state school. In-state. It could be, if you can afford it, an expensive prestige private school. Absolutely. I mean, daddy's got a million dollars sitting there and you want to go to Harvard? Yeah. You want to go to Pepperdine?

Head on. Going ahead. But we're not getting into debt over anything. Right. Not over anything. That's one thing that we're really harping on. The title is debt-free degree. Yes, sir.

And then, you know, I would say number two is we even encourage parents that, hey, if your kid is in college right now, there's nothing wrong, not college, but as a senior in high school, there's nothing wrong with maybe taking the year off if you do not have the funds to even go to community college. We're going to get a job and we're going to start saving so we can go into there. There's nothing wrong with the leap year. Street date on the book is October the 7th. It goes on sale today. You can pre-order debt-free degree today. It's only $19.99. You get $40 worth of free items, not only including the book, but the e-book as well, which is a $10 value. Anthony's incredible talk, How to Connect with Your Kid.

It's a $13 value. He has also the Smart Parent event over two hours of video, includes Anthony and Dr. Meg Meeker. The Smart Parent event, we filmed it when they were there. It's a $20 value. parent event over two hours of video includes anthony and dr mcmaker at the smart parent event we filmed it when they were there it's a 20 value if you put all that together including the book it's 20 bucks it's over 40 worth of stuff on top of the book all just for 1999 you can get the book at anthonyoneal.com daveramsey.com or call the ramsey concierge team at 888-22-PIECE 888-227-3223.

Those of you that have been hanging around with us for a while, you know that all those goodies are there to entice you to do a pre-sale, a pre-purchase. The book actually ships to you. The other stuff will come on to you now. But the book actually ships to you October the 7th, the street date on the book. But that helps Anthony hit the bestseller list because we're going to sell a whole bunch of them before October 7th. So you can help Anthony out because everybody wants to help Anthony out. Please do.

Helps us out. Helps if we appreciate it. But hey, the other thing is we're going to bribe you to do it. You get $40 worth of stuff, man. That's what's known as a great deal. Again, DaveRamsey.com, AnthonyO'Neill.com or call Ramsey Concierge at 888-22-PEACE 888-227-3223.

You know, there's a lot of stuff in the news that comes across that aggravates you and makes you mad. You know, these Hollywood types putting their kids through for free. Yeah. putting their kids through for free, these characters up in Chicago, the Chicago market who are disowning their children so they can get Pell Grants, welfare fraud effectively. That stuff comes across in this. There's other stuff comes across in other subject matter other than student loans that just makes you angry. The thing is you can look at national issues and just kind of stand back

and be worried or stand back and be angry, or you can do something about it. There you go. And if you know a student that is thinking about going to school or is in school get this book for him yeah if you are if you have a seventh grader an eighth grader a ninth grader 10th grade 11th grade 12th grader you've got a college student get this book for him uh this is the book of the year for anyone you know that is thinking about college. Debt-free degree. Number one is affordable college. Number two is what?

Number two is there's nothing wrong with going to a community college and or maybe taking a leap year if you do not have the cash. We promote education, but it is very, very important to stay away from debt. Okay. So our message is not college is all bad it's not worth it it's overpriced forget it throw the baby out with the bathwater yeah uh your message our message is uh we believe in education we just believe in being wise about it financially and also in choice of your field of study yes sir and one of the things dave i talk about in this book and you've heard me say this, anyone who followed me knows that I say

that the caliber of our future will be determined by the choices that we make today. And what I'm seeing is that parents are allowing their kids to take a kid approach

to an adult decision. So it's like they're saying, hey, I want to go to this college because this is where all my friends are going. They're thinking about the now and they don't understand

it's going to impact. My boyfriend's going there. Don't even get me started on that one, Dave. Boyfriend and girlfriend stuff. I made so many dumb decisions trying to impress ladies. But, I mean, just think about it, though. I mean, these young people are saying, I want to go here because of my friends, because it's a prestigious school. But it's going to impact their adulthood. Yeah. And so this is why this book is so important, because it's written to the parent to help

your kid make a decision for their adulthood. You are not loving your child well when you stand on the sidelines and allow them to walk into financial suicide. Yes, sir. That's just not. You got to call them on it. You got to go. No, you're not going to school there because she is.

Yeah. We can't afford that. Right. You're going to school in state. You can see her on the weekends if you care after the third weekend and i smell a breakup coming i'm just saying i think this is going to end oh long distance relationships are just problems i'm just saying oh man there we go all right debt-free degree the step-by-step guide to getting your kid through college without student loans on sale now.

It will be shipped to you October the 7th. Anthony's here. We're going to take calls on student loans and on these questions around college students, around degrees. Phone number is 888-825-5225. You can get the book at DaveRamsey.com, AnthonyO'Neill.com, or 888-22-PIECE, Ramsey Concierge number. Anthony O'Neill joins us this half hour. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. And we're talking about his new book. It goes on presale today.

The Debt-Free Degree. The step-by-step guide to getting your kid through college without student loans. Good-looking cover, too. Love it. The interior is all about selecting the right school, getting scholarships and grants, working while you're in school, having a plan. But, you know, it's like anything else. The more you think about doing something on purpose, the more likely it is to happen. And starting all the way back in the seventh grade, this is a clear blueprint of how to go through.

If your child's already in the twelfth grade, is it too late? No, it's not too late, sir. It's not too late. If you want to go to college debt-free, there's going to be a different plan. You may not be able to go to your dream school right now. You're going to go to a community college if you do not have the funds. Yeah. I mean, or you may be able to go to a state school if you can live at home.

Yeah. I mean, a lot of state schools are like $8,000, $10,000. Yes, sir. The average is about $8,000. And so if you're living at home and just commuting right there in your own town or commuting, I drove an hour for my first commute to my first year in school. I went to MTSU down in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, and we lived in Antioch. And so I lived at home with my parents and drove down there.

And so it cost me almost nothing. Of course, that was back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth. But today, even, you can commute and go to that local school. Even if you didn't do community college, if you do state and it's in there, you can make that money delivering pizza. Yes, sir, you can. And at the same time, if you're living at home, Dave, you won't have to buy the cafeteria plan and that saves you a lot of money right there. You can come home and eat and actually eat much better at home than you would on campus. So there's a lot of ways that you can be very creative when it comes to going to college debt free. We have to get out of telling

our young people that you have to go to college and that student loan debt is okay. Yeah. Well, and you just can't use phrases like, I want the college experience, which means I'm going to borrow money on a student loan to join a frat and live in an apartment that has a skylight and a jacuzzi and a racquetball court. That's not the college experience. That's you spoiling your butt with borrowed money, and the 32-year-old version of you is going to be pissed at the 21-year-old version of you. Yeah.

It will be very upset. And here's the truth, Dave, that less than 50% of the college graduates who graduate do not get into their career field. So they're leaving and they're getting into debt. That's pretty much the only thing that they got from that experience. So they get a job, but it's not a job that they paid all this money for. That's interesting. Yeah.

And there's nothing wrong with pursuing a different career than you got a degree in. Lots of people do. Yeah. But it just kind of double-dumbs it when you look up and there's $60,000 worth of debt associated with this degree that you're not using for whatever reason. Yeah. And so there's lots of ways to do this, and it just requires a different way of thinking about it. And the first step to solving the student loan plague is to quit borrowing, quit borrowing and stop waiting on the government to do something.

You know, I just had to say that it frustrates me every single time when I get on the phone with someone or if I get on Instagram and respond, well, the government said they're going to pay it off. Listen, the government has made a lot of promises. And actually, they're the reason why we're in this crap that we're in. And so if we can just work on ourselves, work on our home, and teach our people, get this book, how to avoid getting into debt over college education, it'll be all right. The government will not help us at all. Well, yeah.

I mean, the whole idea was started in 1972. Prior to that, there was not government insured student loans and we did not loan 18 year olds who had never had a job a hundred thousand dollars correct and uh we the people are doing that we the taxpayer are doing that because congress is too stupid to stop it yeah and all they want to talk about some kind of liberal version of forgiveness uh forgiveness works but but you can't really have that conversation as long as you're continuing to borrow. Just like I tell people, cut up your credit cards. You can't continue to borrow money and get out of debt.

Duh. You cannot do that, Dave. You can't get out of a hole while digging out the bottom. Debt-free degree, the step-by-step guide to getting your kid through college. All right, Stephanie is with us in Alabama. Stephanie, your question for Anthony O'Neill. Hi, Anthony and Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. How can we help? So I was calling because I just started my baby steps, and I'm on baby steps too, and I've listed out all of my debt, and the largest debt that I have is my student loans. So I was wondering, I do work for a nonprofit agency that qualifies for the federal loan forgiveness. And I was wondering, should I go ahead and rely on that to assist with the loans in the long run. How much student loan debt do you have?

So right now I have about $35,000. And how much other debt do you have? About $20,000. On what? I have about $20,000. On what? On just consumer debt mostly, credit cards. Car?

No. My car was actually paid off. Oh that's good. And you make what a year? I make about $38. Okay. And you're how old? I'm 27. Good. And what do you do for a living? I'm a social worker. Okay. Anthony? Yeah. Stephanie that's a good question. It's the number one question

I'm probably asked when it comes to student loans. I'm going to recommend with the income that you're making, you're not that much into debt as far as in per the average person. So what I'm going to recommend is you're going to line this up with babysit number two and the debt snowball. So do not rely on student loan forgiveness. If it happens down the road, it happens. But you need to get intense yourself and really attack the debt, all of your debt. So you're going to line it up from smallest to largest. And you said it's the largest, so it's going to be towards the end of your debt snowball.

But when you get there, you're going to put everything towards it. Now, you're a social worker. Do you have any extra income coming in? So I actually got a little weird and I took on a second job, which gives me about 30 to 35 hours a week and then in the meantime i do um like delivering through apps wow wow so how much income is that extra would you say on top of the 38 that you're making so on top of it it's probably about another 15 a month yeah good another 18 000 a year see if you throw that at 50 in three years you're done of it, it's probably about another $15,000 a month. Yeah, good. Another $18,000 a year. Yeah.

See, if you throw that at $50,000 in three years, you're done. Yep. You got $50,000 in debt, and if you throw $18,000 at it for three years, you got $50,000 done. So, you know, you're going to be done in two and a half to three years and not be waiting on the government. The problem with the student loan forgiveness program is 90,000 people have applied for it, and thus far less than 500 have received it.

It appears to be a scam. It appears to be the government has promised stuff that's not going to happen, and that's people that have been waiting 10 years while paying payments to pull this off. Michael's with us in Georgia. Hey, Michael, your question for Anthony O'Neill. Hey, thanks for taking my call and congrats on the book, man. Thanks, Michael. It means a lot, man. So my question is similar to the previous caller. I graduated school in 2018 from a for-profit university, attended there against better judgment, but we had two small kids at the time term have two small kids um i'm working as a nurse practitioner now but um i have a borrower's defense claim

filed with the department of education my question is um right now my loans are in deferment they are accruing interest but i'm not having to make payments if they're discharged i won't have to pay anything if i start making payments they told me i may or may not get the money back so and it could be several years did they did it close did what close the school no sir what's your borrower's defense claim for them so when i started attending the school about a third of the way through the program i found out that none of the credits that i was taking would transfer anywhere else.

So the choices were, you know, withdraw, lose the credit, start over somewhere else, or just finish the program, which, like I said, I finished the program, and I'm working as a nurse practitioner now. What do you make? $95,000 this year. And then how much is the student loans? $100,000? About $100,000, yes, sir.

Okay. All right. Which is the student loans? A hundred? About $100,000, yes, sir. Okay. So how long are you going to wait and hope the claim comes through? Because you probably could win that. That's probably winnable. But how long are you willing to wait to win it? I'm willing to wait as long as it takes. I just, I mean, I don't want, you know, if it gets denied for some reason, I don't want to be hit with tens of thousands of dollars in interest and then end up owing more.

Which you're going to be if you don't pay payments on it. You shouldn't pay payments on it. I agree with that advice. Right. But I don't want to wait more than about four or five years. Yeah. Okay. After that, I'm going to just go get the thing paid.

You make $100 a year. Let's just get it cleaned up and call it a day. You got screwed. Okay. But, you know, I'm with you on that. So, Anthony, congratulations. The new book is Debt-Free Degree. It goes on sale today.

Street date's October 7th. You can get your copy then. You can buy it now and get $40 worth of extra goodies with it, including videos and e-books and all kinds of things. Check it all out at DaveRamsey.com, AnthonyO'Neill.com, or talk to our Ramsey concierge at 888-22-PIECE, 888-227-3223. Congrats. Hey, thank you so much, Dave. Good times, good times. Good times.

This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to National and tell Dave your story.