The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Make Long-Term Decisions After Experiencing Loss (Hour 2)

Episode Date: September 7, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and a paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney. Ramsey Personality is my co-host on the air today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Jordan starts us off in Pittsburgh.

Hey, Jordan, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. Yeah, thank you so much for having me on. Sure. How can we help? Yeah, I'm just going to jump right into a little story and ask a question concerning that story so recently my wife and i we actually suffered a miscarriage of our twin babies around 14 weeks pregnant um currently yeah i'm sorry we have um oh thank you um currently we have a two-year-old at home as well as a dog.

And my wife, she actually wants another puppy, a golden retriever, and her birthday is coming up soon. I'm finding it hard to say no because in wake of all the grief and sorrow, my concern would be the cost because she is a vet tech and trained our dog really well. She recently took a course through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a financial course, and I listen to your show as I drive for Uber, so we both understand the importance of eliminating debt as soon as possible. So my question is, you know, I love my wife very much and find it extremely hard to say no to a dog after all that has happened, especially on her birthday. But financially speaking, how does someone appropriately respond in the wake of a devastating

event like a miscarriage? I think there's two approaches to that. I've sat in your exact seat, and in all honesty, full disclosure, I handled it pretty poorly. And so I'm going to speak to you from somebody who did that in the wrong way. And I'd love to hear what you have to say, Dave. I think first and foremost, you've got to recognize in a real immediate right now kind of way and in a deep and profound way that y'all two are going to grieve this differently. And there's not a right and wrong way to grieve it. There's just a wrong way to approach it, which is that you and or her,

but usually it's the guy, decides that his way of grieving is best. And so it's time to move on and let's get there quickly. And so honoring her and her grief system. Number two, she's going to need to get somebody in her life that is a mentor of some shape, form, or fashion that has been there, that can listen, that can talk with her, and not let her be alone in this situation. I think telling somebody, well, my recommendation is always nobody make any long-term decisions like buying a dog or buying a car or buying a house for six months to a year after you have some sort of loss. That was the advice I got from my counselor at the time,

and that's the advice I've continued to give to folks over the years. I know that can be hard as a husband. That's usually a conversation that somebody's, that's usually a response that somebody's feeling disconnected. And so what I'd recommend you to do is go find somebody you can talk to together and talk about loss and loneliness. And sometimes that takes the air out of the need to go spend, go buy, go replace. That's just a grieving moment that is all messed up in disconnection. Have you sat down and talked to somebody with her?

Have you all talked to somebody? We both have a really strong support system, but we haven't talked to, like, somebody specifically together. We've talked about it a lot. And then since she's been to counseling, that's kind of one of the things here in Pittsburgh that they did for her on one of her follow-up appointments. They got her hooked up with a counselor. So I recommend y'all go together and have somebody, have a neutral third party that's sitting there with you that you can talk about what does coping behavior look like and what does tomorrow look like and what does trying to punt the pain down the road, which is what buying a dog is, and really give y all some strategies and tools right now to sit in it together.

So you're hearing loud and clear, Jordan, that not buying the dog is not about money. Right. It's about, it's a coping mechanism, and it allows you to not deal with what you need to go deal with is what dr john's saying okay so the two of you sit down with somebody and um you should make a decision to do long-term things like buy a dog um like um children um like um buying a house or a big investment or something from a point of emotional health and strength and when you guys have been when anyone anyone's been through what you guys have been through you're not at you're not strong right now and just say that out loud and say

because i'm not strong i'm not making big decisions right now and if you can get her to say that with you then the dog thing goes away. But it's not because Dave Ramsey said, no, you need to get out of debt, not buy a dog. You know, your feelings be damned. I mean, that's not the discussion that we're having here. And so, although I will tell you that possibly the best dog on the planet is the golden retriever. I'm going to strongly disagree. I like the Basset Hound.

But, and I think it's also important for guys out there to say out loud. Basset Hound? I love me a Basset Hound, man. I love Basset Hound. It took me a minute to get that one. I couldn't even get the picture in my head. They just look like God had some miscellaneous parts left over. And he stuck them together and was like, let's let this one go.

Yeah, they're the most stubborn, obnoxious, smelly, lovely dogs. The golden is loving and kind. Yeah, I don't need that kind of love. I need somebody that... ...and just loves you when you're... It's the right kind of dog. No, I just...

Basset hound. Basset hounds, man. You should get one, Dave. I never saw it coming. I never saw that one coming. Get one, Dave. I would have guessed pug or something, but I would have seen basset hound coming. All right.

Open phones. This is our Dr. John Deloney, my co-host in crime here. Open phones. 888-825-5225. Mia is up next. And let's see. Mia is in Riverside. Hi, Mia.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hello. Thank you for taking my call. I have a question. I am currently in school to get my show to do, so I'm almost done. I'm worried about transferring and paying for it because currently I'm in $16,000 in debt for credit cards and a car loan, and I'm working minimum wage. And I'm just nervous about when I transfer how much it's going to cost me.

You're going to transfer what? What are you transferring? Right now, I'm at a community college. Oh, you're going to go and finish up your other two years at a, is that what you're saying? Yeah, at a four-year. Okay. So I'm just nervous about when, because I'm supposed to be done by the beginning of next year. Around this time, that should be time for me to transfer, and I'll be going through that process.

But I'm just worried about having to take out loans, because I know... You don't have to take out loans. You need a different job. Minimum wage will not cut it. You need a different job. Minimum wage will not cut it. You need a better job. And you need to get on the horn right now, a year in advance. Schools are going to offer you transfer scholarships. Schools are going to be desperate for students that have your credentials and your success track record in the coming months. Yes.

Work hard, and you'll be able to figure it out. Yeah. I mean, get a job cleaning'll be able to figure it out. Yeah. I mean, get a job cleaning houses. You can make $25 an hour. Change your job. Don't take out a loan. Don't take out a loan. Hold on.

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Thank you so much for taking my call. My pleasure. How can we help? I'm in a crazy family and financial situation right now that I want to get some advice on. Um, about a year back, my grandma gave my wife and I a gift of $9,000 for a home, uh, telling us that it was our wedding gift, birthday gift, Christmas gift forever, so forth. Uh, we were grateful and we offered to pay her back, um, eventually as soon as she gave the gift to us, but she told us, don't worry about worry about it, that she was so happy to help us out.

Fast forward a year, she's been asking us recently how we were doing financially, just weird questions for her. She's not that intimate usually. And come to find out, she just wanted to see when she could ask us for that money back that she told us was a gift. She wrote us a letter in the mail saying that she wants all the money back plus interest. And in the letter never mentioned that it was a gift to us.

So now in her eyes, we owe her $12,000. We have paperwork. Yeah. Yeah. So we have paperwork that she filled out to get tax exempt from like, because it was a gift and we just don't know what to do right now. She's done stuff like this before to my parents.

I thought that my wife and I were the exception, but, uh, come to find out we're not. Um, she's also saying things about her will that weren't her will and the money that we're going to be paying her back monthly is going to go towards, quote-unquote, our future home, which it's just a mess. How old's your grandma, Tyler? We don't know what to do.

How old's your grandma? She's 64. What's your household income? After taxes, about 70. Okay. So you said you've got a payment plan have you already worked something out with her no we we've been very vague in communication um i didn't want to agree to anything before i talked to someone who could help okay i i dave i'm gonna love to hear your way on this and i'm, I'm answering you, but

I'm also leaning towards Dave as I answer his question. It sounds like, Dave, he's going to choose between $9,000 or $12,000 and or a relationship that's going to ripple through his entire family. And it sounds like they've been through this before. It sounds like he has a decision to make, whether he wants to go to war with Grandma or he wants to write her a letter back and say, I'll come up with some sort of payment plan and wash his hands of that and learn this lesson

and never make this mistake again. Beware, Grandmother has big teeth. Right, yeah. Yes, she does. Yes, yeah she does there's a story about this yeah yeah exactly and it's hurting she told me the gift and said don't ever worry about paying it back that it's you know it's her gift to us and then come to find out is she mentally ill? Yeah. Or is she just a liar? She's a liar. She's been diagnosed as a narcissist and a liar. Okay.

So the thing right now, where is the money? In our home. Oh, you used it to buy a house as requested? Yes. I wish I would have listened to you guys sooner, but... So can you write her a check for $9,000? In our home. Oh, you used it to buy a house as requested. Yes, I wish I would have listened to you guys sooner, but... So can you write her a check for $9,000 today? Do you have any money? Oh, right now? We're building up our emergency fund.

We have about $5,000 in the bank. Okay. Yeah, and my wife, she works at a gym, and we live in Illinois, and, I mean, if COVID flares up, she's going to be out of her position. Yeah, she was for a while already. So, Tyler, one thing Dave's about to answer here. One thing I want you to put down, like quit carrying around what she told you a year ago. You're trying to balance those two realities, and the new reality that you have is a letter.

It's a demand letter for 12 000 bucks i don't see any way in the world legally or morally or otherwise that you owe her 12 000 dollars um i don't think that you i think legally or morally you owe her any of this money um i just think there's a broader family conversation that you need to engage in yeah so yeah you you do not morally owe her a dime. And so you would be in your rights to just get on the phone with her and say, Grandma, you told us that this was a gift. We have paperwork that shows that it's a gift, and now you're reneging on that, and that's not okay. You're misbehaving.

I love you, but I don't love this behavior, and I'm not going to pay you because I don't owe you. That's one option. Now, you and I both know what's going to happen when you do that. Oh, for sure. Yeah. She's going to be Mount Vesuvius because she likes to pull people's strings, and when they don't dance at the end of her string, she has a little fit. Right?

Absolutely. This is the pattern that you've watched when you were growing up with your parents and her. This is who this woman is. Okay? And so we can predict fairly accurately what she's going to do. Now, is that what you want to do, or do you want to just give her $12,000 or $9,000 or whatever as fast as you can?

And I wouldn't set up a payment plan. I'd just save up some money and ignore her until then and then write her a check for $12,000. But I kind of think when you give her $12,000, you're probably going to get a letter that goes, oh, yeah, I forgot about the other $1,000 you still owe. That's right. Yeah, or building up interest from now until I pay it back. Yeah, or more. Or she changes the interest rate because there was never an agreed interest rate because

it was not a loan. Right. Oh, exactly. She makes crap up as she goes in order to keep her hooks in the end of the puppet. And so I don't know if you're ever going to make her happy i know so i'm not sure paying her is going to work i am sure not paying her my wife and i are concerned about yeah so it's up to you you just decide you got to kind of play this out and go am i willing to have her angry with me or do i want to give this a shot and be rid of her and obviously we're doing no more

business transactions with this woman as long as she breathes oh absolutely not we have learned that we have learned that lesson the hard way in either case so you guys just gotta decide which one but i think we can predict that if you just confront her and just call it what it is it's a lie it's a lie and you told me this and i'm going with what you told me, and we're not going to pay you. And you can't pay her, right? You don't have the money. Well, I'm not. No.

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you had $50,000 in the bank. Right. You know, it's morally wrong. She's a manipulator, a narcissist, a liar. And so do you want to, at what level do you want to have a relationship with her? And do you want to attempt to try to spend $12,000 for that option? Right.

And that's really all it is, because it has nothing to do with the actual transaction. It's got to do with power and control. Yeah. The actual transaction that occurred is very clear in your mind. And I think it is exactly what happened, too, because you were so able to articulate the details of the transaction. And so I believe that your view of this is not crazy. I'd also advise Colin sitting down with his parents, if he hasn't already, and saying, how have you all handled this in the past? What's grandma going to do here?

And they may have circled back and said, we told you not to take that money. So if you were to do this again someday or if someone listening has a similar situation, if you think grandma is a suspect, her end game may be not what it appears. When you're offering the new young couple that just got married the newlyweds $9,000. Why nine anyway? That's a random. Instead of ten. But $9,000. Why nine, anyway? Well, that's a random. Instead of ten. But round up, geez.

But anyway, but yeah, if you think that's the case, I would have her put in writing that it is a gift because we know her track record of having changed her story, and then when it comes up, I just send her that back. That's right. And if I had that in this case, there would be no question. I can't help but think that rattling around in their minds is if we draw

a line here, usually people who operate like this may have substantive accounts other places, maybe in a will somewhere. I don't really care. I want people to draw integrity lines and say, I'm not going to take that burnt money anyway. I don't really care if I'm in the will.

We're going to hold down to our integrity here. We're going to say, nope, we're out. If you take me out of the will, that's fine. That's right. Please take me out of the will. Because I don't really want to negotiate with other crazy relatives. That's exactly right. Please take me out of the will.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. My co-host this hour, Dr. John Deloney, in the studio spreading hate and dissension. Joy and love, America. Joy and love. Joy and love. Love and joy. Love and joy. Open phones at 888-8255-2255. On the debt-free stage in the RamseySTAGE IN THE RAMSEY LOBBY.

John and Tamala are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? We're great. Great. Welcome. Good to have you guys. It's Tamala, right? It's Tamala. Tamala.

Tamala. I said it wrong. I'm sorry. It's okay. And where do you guys live? We live in MacArthur, Ohio, which is about 70 miles southeast of Columbus. Awesomeness. Very cool.

And how much debt have you paid off? $143,783.09. Not that we're counting. Woo! In 38 months. 38 months. Wow. And your range of income during that time?

$150,000 to $160,000. Cool. What do you guys do for a living? I'm a registered nurse. And I'm a high school math teacher and coach. Wow. Very fun. Good for you guys do for a living? I'm a registered nurse. And I'm a high school math teacher and coach. Wow. Very fun. Good for you guys. Congratulations.

What kind of debt was the 144? Go ahead. Lots of stuff. Lots of stupid stuff. A HELOC, a truck, an SUV, a zero-turn mower, recreational hunting property. She just stared at you on that one. Yeah, I got the look. A credit card, a student loan, and a bank reserve line of credit.

Wow. I mean, you signed up for all of it. We did. You're just like normal and then some. Yes. Wow. So you guys don't look like those people. That's pretty amazing. Well, you're not those people that's pretty amazing no well you're not

those people anymore so we're not what happened uh three years ago and some change that lit the fuse on this because you went kaboom yeah believe it or not dave i'm a long time i guess uh guru of finance management we just uh kind of stunk at doing it um i got trained in Larry Burkett's stuff in the 90s. I even became one of his coaches at one point. Yeah. But we kept falling off the cart. I was even working extra jobs, and we kept doing Dave-ish. Or Larry-ish.

Larry-ish, right? Yes, yes. But in the mid-2000s, I really got in touch with you because I loved your motivational style. I'm a teacher and a coach, and I like to motivate people, and I just want people to tell me how it is. And you did that. Yeah, Larry was a very, very nice man. Yes.

Larry was very nice, and you would just tell people, you need to sell the stinking car. And I needed that. We got on board in 2013 and really kind of got intense. We led FPU twice. Oh, wow. Yeah. And we paid off $50,000 in two years. But then we got tired.

We got exhausted. And we got discontent. That's why your message of being gazelle intense is so important. Because if you don't get after this thing with everything you got, I mean, it's real easy to get frustrated. That year in 2015, we had Murphy strike like crazy. And the fall of 2015, we jumped off the cart. I mean, I hate to say it, but we jumped off, bought a truck, bought a piece of hunting property, bought a stupid zero-turn mower, went on a $5,000 trip out west,

and it took really me about nine to ten months to snap out of it. And in July of 2016, we said never again. Yeah. And that time you meant it. And we meant it. And we got after it. And we sold the hunting property, which was hard. Yeah.

We were going to put a cabin there someday. And we sold it. We got rid of it. We let FPU three more times. This time as winners. Mm-hmm. And you've got to overcome stuff. Mm-hmm. This thing's hard, but you've got to overcome stuff this thing's hard but you got to overcome it so that that's

and you know in the middle of those things life happens and um there's obstacles about halfway through tamil was diagnosed with chronic myeloid leukemia which is thankfully gone yay um and uh Which is, thankfully, gone. Yay! But, you know, that was six months of just hard. And we're in the middle of the journey trying to pay stuff off. And that's just, we had $12,000 of house and vehicle repairs during this that we cash flowed. Awesome. So when you talked about the, when you fell off the wagon and went and bought all the junk and then again when you talked about when you said never again both times the emotion came up in your throat yeah what is that what's going on well i think

we've been married 27 years uh 28 years in November, and we fought it for 24. I mean, and the frustrating part was we knew what to do. And we made a very good income, but we were still living paycheck to paycheck. And we finally just really got sick and tired. And we'd learned this, the message of our shirt that you know gratitude turns what we have into enough it's a great that's a great message that's a great message be grateful yeah it turns it into contentment yes and so you know those things this this journey is hard you've you've used the before, be the hero, not the victim.

The longer you mull around and you're whining, crying, I can't do this, the more you're going to lose. You've got to get over it and you've got to go win. And when we really got that mindset correct, boy, we got after and we got her done.

So never again is really never again this time that's right absolutely yeah because i don't think you'll live through it i think she'll kill you you're probably right spot on she will zero turn that mower right over here there's a special spot in the corner of that hunting property that you'll never. Yes. Never. He's the spender. I'm the saver. Yes. Spender, saver. We gathered that. Yeah. But there's a part of this too, though, that it's important to note.

You're a math teacher. I am. You're a Larry Burkett guy. Yes. You're a Dave Ramsey guy. You had all the information you needed. All the tools. This is a hard issue.

It is. Absolutely. Wow. As we say, the guy that I coach with, we tell kids, you have to make a decision until you decide to do this. It's not going to happen. That's right. There's no ish. No.

No. It doesn't work. Just ishing doesn't work. It does not work. Wow. Congratulations. You guys are amazing. Thank you.

I'm so proud of you. You are heroes. We're excited. You did it. You conquered the most difficult thing to conquer in the world, which is a person in the mirror. Yes. It's a difficult thing. Yes.

Twice. Right. Wow. Very, very good. How does it feel now that you're done? Amazing. Yes. Freedom.

As you say in Financial Peace, the two words that don't go together, Financial Peace. Yes. They're there. They're there there and you brought the kiddos with you what are their names and ages this caleb and carter all right and how old are these guys caleb come over here caleb is 15 soon to be 16 all right carter is 12 all right very cool we also have i will have, I will say, a 31-year-old and a 26-year-old. Oh, wow. Very good. Yes. All right.

Well, this is perfect. So these two young men have watched this transition, this transformation, and it's impacted them. Yes. So very, very cool. Dave, I have to say this. Most men, when they try to do something, they try to go up the mountain, and they fall off, they quit. And you didn't quit. And I need you to hear me say, as a guy who trains other young men for a living, other young men and women for a living, you walked it, and you lived it, and I'm proud of you.

Thank you. Very well done. Most guys quit, and you got back back up and you had a backpack full of shame at that point because you knew better yes and you put that crap down and you went and got it done congratulations man thank you that you're the kind of guy i want raising my daughter and my son at school yeah thank you it's you know the more that you can get over yourself and your weaknesses and realize that this thing is hard and you just got to suck it up and you got to go, even when it gets hard, the more that we can win. And I want these two boys to learn that.

Our two older kids, Megan and Curtis, both have seen that and have seen us overcome. We're excited. All right. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. $144,000 paid off in 38 months, making $150,000 to $160,000. Here we go. Three, two, one.

We're debt-free! Well done, you guys. Absolutely amazing. What a great couple. This is the Dave Ramsey Personality, my co-host today. 888-825-5225 is the number. If you ever get to the end of the month and you have no idea where your money went, it's because you're not living with a plan.

What you pay attention to, you win at. You're not going to win at something you don't pay attention to, you don't focus on. Money's the same thing. The way you pay attention to money is called a budget. And you have to tell your money what to do or it will leave and go to someone else and then you'll go oh those people are winning they're winning because they told their money what to do you give every dollar a job every dollar a name on a budget every single month. The best way to do this is our new Ramsey Plus membership. It gives you all of our best money products, including the premium version of the budgeting app, EveryDollar.

And that's where you make your budget, track your spending, and clearly see where all your money's going. Connects to your bank. Your spouse can connect. Everybody's on the same page. We're working what's known as a plan, and no one plans to fail. Lots of people fail to plan. You can get a free trial of Ramsey Plus today. Never again wonder where your money's going.

Never again. You worked too hard for it. Start your free trial. Text the word BEGIN to 33789. Text BEGIN to 33789. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Jason is with us. Jason's in Fort Worth. Welcome to the show, Jason. Hey, how you doing, Mr. Ramsey and Dr. Deloney?

Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? Man, it's awesome talking to you guys. Okay, so my dilemma here is, I found you at the beginning of the year. Deloney? Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? It's awesome talking to you guys. My dilemma here is I found you at the beginning of the year. Last year, me and my wife purchased our first home. We did it the wrong way, all the wrong ways. After discovering you, I discovered that.

I'm looking forward to what Dave will do. We bought the house, you would say, on the wrong side of the tracks. My wife wants to get out. I'm with her, but we're just trying to figure out the plan and how to go about it. Do we sell ASAP? Our written plan so far is she's going to finish nursing school. I'd say in about four years, she'll be stable in a job. We plan to have a good amount of money saved up to put down for a house the correct way.

So I'm just trying to see what would you do in the situation. I hear some panic, almost urgency in your voice. What's that from? I'm nervous as heck. Okay, all right. I'm on the radio. I'm sweating hands. I thought somebody on the radio! I'm slitting hands. I thought somebody on the wrong side of that track

has a hatchet to your head or something. So, the first thing is, are you safe? Is your wife safe there? Yes, we haven't had no issues. Then the second thing is, the second thing is, is the neighborhood going down fast enough

that if you stay there a couple years, you're going to have trouble getting out? So far, where we're at, it's actually booming. Like, the houses are selling for more than what I would ever pay for them. Great. Well, sit tight. Sit tight? Yeah, work your plan. And when you hit some of your other goals and you want to move up and out, then do it.

And I have a question. I didn't mention this, but can I ask Dr. Donaloni a quick question? Sure. Mr. Donaloni, man, you've helped me out so much. And to join this team, I listen to you every day pretty much. Thanks, man. My question is, how do you deal with – so I come from an addiction household. So I'm trying to figure out, I went through a lot of things as a kid. I have kids now myself, and a situation happened where I don't let,

I've separated my family from my mom because she is still in the addiction process, and I don't ever see it changing. It just kind of, it hurts in an emotional way because going up without grandparents, I kind of see my own kid going through it. And, um, and so I'm like, a part of me wants to be like, Hey, you can come see him, you know, supervised. But then a part of me is like, man, you're going to break his heart because you know, my heart's been broken before. Right. So, um, by her. So I'm just trying to see,

I mean, is it, is it good just to be firm and strong and you know kind of um yeah you take that pain on you i mean you're wrestling with the fantasy of the the thanksgiving dinner with grandma and granddad and the kids running around and the fireplace going and that's not in the cards for you. Or it's not in the cards for you unless your mom decides to make some pretty radical life changes, which have happened. They're hard.

Addiction's tough, especially when you're older. But the reality is you got one job, and that's to protect your kids. That's to protect your kids in lieu of the fantasy that you hold on to. And dude, I hold on to fantasies like that all the time. I wish my house would look like this and my cars would look like that.

We all have fantasies that we walk around with. Your number one job is to protect your kids. And so your instincts are right. Your gut is right. And man, I just want to applaud you for making a hard right turn after the childhood you endured and saying no more, no more, no no more and not for me in my house

and so man that's i can't even tell you how proud of you i am jason you're you're a saint and a blessing and you're going to raise different kids man you're a good man good for you changing you are changing your family tree yeah um i am i am because guys. So here's the thing. It takes a lot of strength to be gentle, and that includes even to your mom. But being gentle does not mean that she has enough access to them to bring damage in any way. I don't know if you have to cut off 100% access or not. That's something you might talk through with your pastor or with your coach or counselor, something like that, depending on how extreme and what she's dealing with and so forth. We certainly cannot have the children harmed in any way emotionally, certainly not physically.

But 100% cut off may or may not be necessary. That's up to you guys. But you're definitely going to have to limit it, which you've already done. And the thing is that this is not the way it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be the other way with the Thanksgiving dinner and the fireplace. And so there's not ever going to be a moment in your life

where you don't wish that it wasn't the way it's supposed to be. It's just not right. It's supposed to be the other way. And if it doesn't ever make you cry, if it doesn't ever make you feel bad at times, then you're probably in trouble. Because it should. It hurts. And it's just because it's not supposed to be this way. Moms aren't supposed to be that way. Dads aren't supposed to be that way. And nobody wants to be addicted, right? Nobody wants

to be over their head for years and years. And there's no telling what his mom's story is growing up and what she endured. so i often will will point people in the direction that addiction is usually it's a great way to compress and keep stuff out that i don't want to deal with i don't have the tools to deal with and so i don't want to be in the business about beating people up who have addiction challenges i do want to always encourage folks to go get the help they need right yeah and your kids and your grandkids they need you your grandkids, they need you in their lineage. Absolutely. They need you in their life.

It could be, and you don't want to manipulate or something, but it could be that this conversation gives her the impotence to start working. Right. And that would be a really good, that would be a wonderful outcome, but it may never turn out that way. Right. And, you know, having a baby doesn't mean you're a a parent it just means you had sex right that's all it means i mean you have to there's a line in the

old movie with steve martin parenthood i think it was called the kid the teenage kid is getting ready to have a baby and they're standing the thing talking he goes you know you have to go get you have to go take a test to get a driver's license to drive a car you don't have to do that to have a baby no and you would think that you know i mean driving a car versus having a baby one is more important than the other you know right you don't have to you don't have to pass a test as a matter of fact quite the opposite right you might have failed the test or two or three right that's right That's right. You flunked on impulse or something. But it's just, what you're going through, sir, is just heartbreaking.

Because it's not the way it's supposed to be. And so your spirit is designed for the way it's supposed to be. And when your spirit doesn't get that, it hurts. And so you just know that. If you're listening to this and you're struggling with addiction, you want to go see your grandkids, you want to spend more time, take the first step. Go get some help. Make a phone call. Go get some help.

Yeah. Go get some help. There is healing on the other side of addiction, too. Do the hard work. It's hard. Hard, hard. But it's worth it. Oh, it's worth it.

It's worth it. Your lineage is counting on you. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for the Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free screen live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.