The Ramsey Show - App - Don’t Make Stupid Decisions When You’re Desperate (Hour 2)

Episode Date: October 24, 2022

Dave Ramsey & George Kamel discuss: Taking a better-paying job after you just got hired, Borrowing money for a house downpayment, Life insurance options, Liquidating investments to buy into crypto, How to quit rationalizing foolish spending. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the POTS moving and storage studio, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW. As the status symbol of choice, we help people build wealth, do work that they actually love, and create real, amazing relationships. This is a show about you and your life. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

The phone number is 888-825-5225. No, George and I are not strange wearing matching hoodies. We are celebrating the launch of the gazelle debit card right there it is baby the gazelle debit card and i just came out from ramsey it is the debit card that does not try to get you into debt it is fully protected by the fdic and master cards normal fraud protection programs which is as good as any credit card you could get out there for any of those things. And this thing is absolutely amazing. It's better than a credit card.

Because it really looks good. And you can't go into debt with it. It makes a statement that says, I am smart with money. When you pull this out, people go, that one's smart with money. I mean, because people that – that means you don't use credit cards. You use a debit card, which is what we do. It do is what we teach it's what I've always done and I've always had a visa or a master card debit card so having a master card or a visa debit card that I offer is not inconsistent for you trolling idiots out there just to make sure you know what's up

and um hey that's the thing man so check this out no fees no fees no we're not gonna send you pretty commercials with pretty people sitting around talking on a little couch is that a personal attack no it's sofi commercials oh yeah piss me off because they make it look like they love you and they're actually trying to absolutely screw you with their awful awful debt you know their average credit card debt in america at the? Here's how much the banks love you. In the most inflationary period, the roughest economic situation from an inflation viewpoint we've had in 40

years, what did the credit card companies do? They raised the average rate on a credit card from 18 to 22%. Well, it's inflation, right? I mean, you've got to go up with inflation, right? You've got to go up on that. Let me tell you what the interest rate is on this. on this zero not one because you can't borrow money on stupid it doesn't work that way with a debit card okay and uh no fees did i mention that there's no

fees i know we're not going to sell your name and we're not going to try to i was just in here deleting an email george watched me do it from some app on my phone that i forgot to check the stupid little box and they sent me a bunch of marketing crap and that i didn't want and we're not going to do that we're not going to wear you out with a bunch of trying to get you in debt because if you get a debit card with a bank you know what it's a loss leader for them with a traditional bank they're just trying they're they're doing that just to hook you because they want to be able to get your name and they want to sell it and they want to sell you stuff jonathan starts off this hour in Washington, D.C. Hey, Jonathan, how are you? Doing well. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve, sir. What's up?

I'll lay it out pretty quick for you here. About five, six months ago, I joined an accounting firm of about 6,000 people. Starting salary was $90,000, plus I'd get bonus. Recently, organically received an offer for $135,000 for a 100-person firm. So it'd be a pretty big jump, but my loyalty aspect of myself makes it hard to leave. I mean, ultimately, I think I'm leaning towards that side of things, but wanted to get y'all's thoughts on that

and also potentially how to break that to my current employer. Hmm. Okay. More importantly than a few thousand dollars, where do you want to be working in 20 years? Because a lot of people who get an accounting degree if they land a job where you landed a job strut around like they did something they're all excited that they got to join that big firm it's like a prestige thing like you bragged about it for me it was just table setting i really want to be a partner i want to be part of that equity

ownership um and i had came from a smaller firm before where I felt very comfortable and I enjoyed the lifestyle there and the culture. The big firm was just more of an opportunistic jump during our time that we're currently in with all the people moving around. So what happens next time there's an opportunity so you need to decide who you want to be are you an opportunist or do you want to work for 100 100 person firms where that's where the soul of the place shows yeah i mean that's part of where i'm going towards and i think i really enjoy the culture

of a smaller firm but a 50 percent raise would not be too bad overall, like that jump. But then the loyalist side of me is saying, hey, this firm, other firm gave me an opportunity five or six months ago to jump in and join them and doing pretty well there. But, you know, considering my family and everything like that is burning some bridges worth a 50% raise at that point. So I'm kind of emotionally tied to the new firm, I would say heavily. And also just the loyal side of me doesn't want to do it either. But I know it's a great opportunity. Okay. Yeah, I think you needed to redefine what happiness is.

You think it's a paycheck, and I don't. So, it's not loyalty it's i i think you're going to spend your whole life jumping jumping jumping jumping jumping as long as you define it based on the raise that you're being offered because some moron's always going to offer you a raise and then all you're going to be is a jumping bean every time there's a raise if that's the definition of winning. And so I want the definition of winning for you to be broader than just the paycheck. If you redefine winning and it encompasses your new definition of winning, which is the soul of the organization, I want to actually have human beings and not be living in a corporate garbage mess hole, which some of the big firms are, and they've got all this politically correct garbage going on instead of actually getting their work done and that kind of stuff,

and you don't want to be in that environment anymore, and you get a raise, then the next time corporate America comes knocking and wants to just give you money but puts you back into a septic tank um then you won't answer that call so in other words if you take this i want you to redefine winning to where if someone calls and says hey we're going to give you 175 at a thousand at a two thousand person firm you're going to say no thanks yeah i mean when thinking about this process and going to the stuff with them recently, if I was given the same opportunity, say, same salary, I'd probably end up going with a smaller firm. But just the loyal side of me just feels disgusted leaving that quickly.

Yeah. I guess that's my biggest thing personally. I don't mind. Personally, I don't mind you leaving quickly. That doesn't bother me. You just go in and go, this is awkward. These guys came in and offered me 50%. I'm not even going to ask you all for that.

That's insulting. And so I've accepted the job, and I'm so sorry. And, you know, this is what we're doing. With 6,000 people, they will replace you, and eventually they'll go, oh, yeah, that guy used to work here. In about an hour. In about an hour. They won't notice you're gone. And so, I mean, it's really not that big a deal but i think the most important thing is you define what is inside

of you what winning looks like you want to sink your teeth into you don't just repeat this process over and over and over again it's a hollow process if you're only defining it on the paycheck you need a broader a broader definition than that. This is The Ramsey Show. Well, we just got back from a sold-out Smart Conference event in Dallas, Texas this weekend. The house was packed with thousands of people. It was amazing. Our live events have been epic this fall each one has been a sellout coming up here in november we're going to be running around all

over the place we sold out events in san antonio minneapolis and sacramento and our and uh last week we announced the spring building wealth live tour tickets are selling very fast we sold out of the vip tickets in indianapolis and anaheim within 48 hours wow our building wealth live events walk you through a simple but proven plan that will help you save money build wealth make smart decisions in this weird crazy economy and despite what the news internet says it is possible rachel cruz ken coleman dr john deloney the george camel sitting to my right for a night of hope with me. And we're going to teach you about what normal is and how you don't want to be normal,

but a way to function in this crazy world. Indianapolis is February 16th. Austin is February 23rd. Anaheim is May 2nd. Tickets start at $39. The VIPs always sell out fast, super fast, and the Platinum sell out even faster. You won't want to wait. Go ahead and get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com slash tickets.

Our question today comes from blinds.com. Find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. Free samples, free shipping, new promos all the time. You'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best possible deal. Today's question comes from Thomas in Virginia. I'm in the early stages of becoming a first-time homebuyer, and I was wondering if taking out two loans from separate entities is possible. For example, if I'm buying a $200,000 house and a family friend says they'll give me a $100,000 loan at a 3% interest rate, would I still be able to qualify

for an FHA loan on the other $100,000 from the bank? If this is possible, how does this work? Oof. Well, aside from it being a bad idea, it may be possible. We don't know a lot of the details of this person's life, their income, their debt-to-income ratio, but I would not be doing any of this. Yeah. Number one, we wouldn't do an FHA. We'd do a conventional loan because they're cheaper, interest rate and fees. Number two, I don't borrow money from family friends because that's a good way for them to no longer be a family friend.

And so I wouldn't do that for that reason. Let's say you were going to execute it anyway, technically, tactically, how do you do that? Well, you have to disclose the whole process to the lender, and so the lender has to understand that you are borrowing money in addition to the $100,000 you're putting down as a down payment is not a real down payment. It's borrowed money as well. Not disclosing that to the lender that's making the first mortgage loan um is called fraud criminal fraud because

you induce them to give you money without giving them accurate information by lying to them and so people do this stuff in real estate business all the time, and they don't realize it's like go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200 stuff. Now, here's the problem, okay? Conventional loans only going to take a first position, meaning first mortgage position. That means your family friend is in second position. So let's say the world's worst catastrophe happened and there was a car wreck

and you were unable to work for 10 years and therefore you're unable to pay either one of these mortgages. The first mortgage will foreclose. When they foreclose, the second mortgage holder, your family friend, to protect their $100,000 loan, they have to write another $100,000 check and buy out the foreclosure. Otherwise, when the first mortgage forecloses, they lose their position in the house. It wipes it out. All mortgages behind the first mortgage or behind the mortgage foreclosing, if it's a second mortgage and there's a third mortgage, are wiped out by the previous mortgage foreclosing. And so the only way for him to protect himself is to come out of pocket again

for some more money. Well, that'll never happen. You're talking to people who have done this for 30 years. It happens all the time. You're talking to cancer doctors. We know what causes cancer, okay? And we know what causes stupid, and this is stupid. You're going to get yourself in a pinch. You're going to get your family friend in a pinch. Unforeseen things are going to happen. Things you don't think are going to happen are going to come up. He's going to get in a problem and need his money and come knocking on your door and want his money right now. Something's going to get in a problem and need his money and come knocking on your door and want his money right now.

Something's going to come up, and you're going to be a caller on this show looking like you did something doofus because you did something doofus. Don't do this. Was I unclear? Pretty clear to me, Dave. Okay. Clear as mud. Didn't want to be unclear. But that is a scary situation.

It sounds like you're not ready to be a homebuyer, and that's okay, but take your time. He's just trying to get a lower interest rate because the guy's trying to get three percent on his money and the guy making the loan and he's trying to get a lower interest rate on his mortgage and both of those are good motivations but what neither one of them thought through is all your worst case scenarios and you know the only time debt works is when debt works and all the rest of the time when everything works perfect it works but all the rest of the time which is all works perfect, it works. But all the rest of the time, which is all the time, that doesn't work. It always ends up coming back and biting you. In your head and on paper, you go, this is an amazing plan.

I'm a genius. Yeah, you get bit in your assumptions is what happens. And, you know, when you get bit in the assumptions, it hurts. It hurts. It leaves a mark. All right, Donald is with us in Spokane, Washington. Hey, Donald, what's up? Good afternoon, Dave.

I've got a retirement question for you. Okay. Retiring from the Air National Guard, 34 years, and I also have a technician job. It's a GS with the Air National Guard. Those go together. I retire from both of those next month. Wow. They have an automatic survivor benefit that's selected for you.

You paid 10% of your retirement. For me, $140 a month if I pass away. My wife gets 50% of my retirement, which is $700 a month. The bad news is if I was to cancel that, because that sounds like a horrible insurance policy. Um, if I cancel it, she would no longer get, uh, her health insurance. Uh, if I was to pass away, there's also an option of getting a, uh, paying a 5%, uh, and then she gets 25% of my retirement. So it would be paying three 50 a month or my wife would be, and then she gets her retirement with that. What other options are there? It sounds like a horrible insurance policy

that I'm getting pushed into. Yeah. You're right. You're actually buying health insurance is what you're buying, right? Yeah. I mean, in a sense, that's what's pushing it uh correct and then i have to add another 140 a month to my health insurance how much is the health insurance um for just her it would end up being about 225 a month we currently pay for my for the 450 a month but if i pass away then that goes down, obviously. It goes in half, and she can buy health insurance for the rest of her life. Is the health insurance good? Very good, actually.

Okay. All right. Yeah, I would do it just for the health insurance. Okay. The other dynamic is I'm working with Zander Insurance and trying to get new life insurance because I'm losing the servicemen's group life insurance with the military, and so switching over with them, they're very easy to work with. Good. So two pluses there. Good. Thank you. Thank you for your service, man.

Yeah. I appreciate it. Yeah, that's, you're right. It's just a government program and you're boxed in. But I would just look at it as, you know, you're buying guaranteed life health insurance. It's quality health insurance, you're saying, for the rest of your life, for your wife and for the rest of her life. And so the opportunity to buy it. Because at their ages, getting it in the marketplace could be expensive. Yeah, it would be a lot more. But, you know, if he told me it was $1,250 a month, then I would be going, then why are we doing this? You know, but $250 a month, that's not like a serious bargain.

So that's, you know, you end up being that you've gotten a good benefit tied with a not so good benefit, but they're tied. So there you go. It's a wash. Karen's with us in New York. Hi, Karen. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, guys. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, guys. Hey.

So my question is, I'm a longtime listener, so I think I know what you tell me to do, but I wanted to check. I want to know if I should pay off an RV in two years by doing a snowball on it. I have a payment on it. What's it worth? Or pay some stupid tax. What's it worth? My loan is maybe $90,000.

What do you make a year? $120,000. I would sell it. That's a lot of RV. If too much tied up in things going down in value, and RVs go down in value worse than just about anything. Horrible on holding value.

So you've got to be able to just choke that amount of money is what it amounts to. It's like buying a boat, same thing. This is The Ramsey Show. Are you sick of planned obsolescence? You know, when companies make products crappy so you have to buy more of their crappy products? Well, me too. And it's why I love companies like Grip6.

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How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you guys live? We are from Canton, which is about 40 minutes north of Atlanta. Yeah. Welcome to Nashville. Good to have you guys. All right. How much debt have you paid off? About $60,000. Very good. And your range of income during that time? I'm sorry, how long did that take? Took about a year. One year. And your range of income during that time? We started around 80 and then we jumped up to somewhere between 140 and 145.

Okay, very good. Very cool. Good for you guys. Excellent. What kind of debt was the $60,000? Man, everything. The bulk of it, about $30,000 was a car. That kind of kick-started this. Five or six credit cards, a plumbing bill from a house that we didn't even live at anymore, and then another huge chunk with student loans so you're just kind of collecting debt yeah it was a it was a really good habit we developed it was fun there's no prize at the end unfortunately interest yeah interest that was a prize that we how long you guys been married uh almost five years yeah five years to 28th, so what happened a year and some

change ago that gave you the wake-up call and you start on this process and one year later, boom, you're done? Yeah, so I had heard about you growing up a little bit. I just knew you as the debt guy, get out of debt, get out of debt. Heard you speak. We went to a North Point satellite church, a Nanny Stanley church, and heard you speak. And I told her, I can remember vividly before we got married. I said, yeah, it's real easy to pay $200 on a tip when you make millions. Wow. Yeah. No way we could ever do that. So anyways, long story short, we had found out we were pregnant and about February of 20, is that right? February 20 with, or February of 21, actually. And so it was really just pulling teeth. We grew up very differently with money. Uh, I saved every penny. Uh, some call it financial

trauma. I call it being frugal, but, uh, saved every penny. She, she spent a lot. And so it was, it was literally just pulling back and forth. Just whose car was the $30,000 car? This one's right here. What kind of car was it? It's a Kia Sorento. Oh, yeah. 21, Kia Sorento. Good car. Okay. So in that time, after we found out we were having our second baby, we said, you know what? Great idea.

Let's do a cash out refinance. It makes sense. We can upgrade the home, do everything good, everything great. This is going to be awesome. Well, it took way longer than what it was supposed to. They said my debt to income was ridiculous. Because it was. It was.

It was very ridiculous. And it wasn't working well. We got to the point, they said it would take 21 days. It took like three months. I was telling her, I said, is this God telling me we shouldn't do this? I don't know. And we just kept struggling with debt. Our bank account just kept going lower and lower and lower,

no matter how much more I worked and worked and worked. And eventually the day came where I was supposed to sign the papers for the cash out refinance. The guy just didn't show up. So I call, I said, hey, what's going on? I was supposed to sign it. He says, let me call you back. He calls me back. He says, I have no idea what happened. I don't know what's going on. We can't figure it out. We don't know. I know I showed up. And I've been praying about this, like, is this the right move? And the more I prayed, the more I prayed, the more I prayed, I got the word peace. I said, we need peace in our finances. Like only God can give us, we need that peace. And I had never heard about Financial Peace University. So I Google, you know, financial peace and Financial Peace University, of course.

Who knew it was our brand. Yeah, I had a wild thought. And so I went that uh in the two-week free trial of course i didn't pay for it because i'm so frugal uh went through that told her about it uh basically a total transformation in our ideas of money and um she you know made sense to her i said hey this is the last straw of money we either do this or we don't do anything wow so god's providence helped you dodge the cash out refi. Without a doubt. That's amazing. One more bad decision avoided there.

That's incredible. Yeah. And so we just, man, we killed it from there. So I'm a police officer in Metro Atlanta. And I actually, with part-times, you know, you get hired to be security for hotels, security for apartment complexes, actually work Braves games, work for the Braves. And I just killed it. We were making, I was making $65, $75, $80 an hour. Wow. You know, double, triple my income.

And I said, hey, you stay home with the kids. I'll see you in about a year. We're just going to wipe out this debt. And that's basically how we did it. You just took every gig you could get. Oh, man. Yeah. That's incredible.

So Samantha, you had the hardest job. Yeah, it was rough. It was rough. I mean, I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom at first, with our first, with Lorelai. You just didn't want to be a single mom. I said, I'm a single married parent. Oh yeah, that's exactly right.

And then he told me that we weren't getting any. I totaled, well, someone else totaled my car with me in it. A year before we got a new car. I was driving his truck. It was not safe. It was not great. Debatable. Debatable.

She said it wasn't safe. It was usable, but not as usable. So I guess part of the story is we didn't do the cash out refi. I said, well, we got to do this financial piece part. But in between that, we got a great interest rate from our bank. They said, hey, we give you a great interest rate as you pay for this car and buy this car. So I thought, okay, I guess we got to buy this car. And they gave a really broke person $32,000. Sounds like a bank. Confused me really bad. Really a lot of confusion there. I was real confused by that. That's kind of what made me

think financial peace and kick it off too. Well, yeah, but he wouldn't let me get a car until I got a job. So then I went from that to working and staying with the kids and my mom lives next door. So she helped with the the kids it was just a really crazy year uh it sounds like it's over the top was it worth it absolutely yeah amen without a doubt uh and you know there were times in that year coming home at three and four in the morning five in the morning from working uh sometimes a regular shift sometimes extra jobs i picked up you know i it was tough and and uh at one point i i thought about giving up and she you know i had, it was tough. And, and, uh, I, at one point I, I thought about giving up and she, you know, I had to, I had to kind of, uh, you know, put her on board, uh, with it. I kind of

had the, I had the thoughts at first and, and she said, no, what, what are, what are you talking about? We're almost done with this. You, this was your idea and you're going to give up at this. That makes no sense. Called you out. Yeah, really, really. She really did. And, uh, I was listening, uh, to a show one time, one of your shows, and you were talking to a guy. He said, you know, I don't know what to do. He was desolate, basically. You said, you're at a point where you're a little tired,

a little pissed off, and you're ready to get going. And I said, that's where I am right now. I'm still pissed off at the poor decisions I made, and I've got to keep going. $60,000,'t a, in comparison, a lot of debt-free screams isn't too drastic, but it was a mountain that overtook me. I couldn't sleep at night thinking about this money that I just owe to people. I couldn't, it was tough. And really what it was that part of that was half of that was that one car decision and you were just, the regret from that was on the back of your tongue.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And I just sat there and I thought, how on the back of your tongue. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I just sat there and I thought, how do you give a broke man $30,000? This makes no sense. Why is the bank making this? How does a broke man sign up for $30,000? I shouldn't deflect. Well, you guys decided to sacrifice for a short period of time intensely so that you could win long term. Most people would just live in mediocrity for 30 years.

And so I'm so proud of you guys for doing that. Yeah, thank you so much. You're amazing. Congratulations. Very well done. I'm so proud of you. Yeah, thank you. I'm glad you did it.

Are you ever going to go back in debt? No. The piece of paper that we wrote our debt snowball on, I burned it when we finished. So that's my answer to that. Lock it down i love it very cool very cool and the babies bring them up what are their names and ages uh this is uh layton she is going to be one tomorrow and this is lorelei she's going to be three oh beautiful i'll tell you um just one more quick thing uh you know the key to this is uh well then what uh our our friend Anthony O'Neill says is your why's got to make you cry.

Like, it's got to hurt. Like, I grew up, houses foreclosed on, bills weren't paid, water shut off, electricity shut off. But not these two. No, never again. You changed your family tree. Oh, amen to that. Yes, sir. Absolutely.

Hey, we got the live and give bundle for you. It includes the Baby Steps Millionaires book, the Total Money Makeover book, and a one-year membership to Financial Peace. So you use that or give it away to somebody and get them started on the journey you guys did. So very well done. Very proud of you. Caleb and Samantha, Lorelei and Leighton. Atlanta, $60,000 paid off in one year, making $80,000 to $145,000. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Woo-hoo! That's how it's done. Thank you. We'll be right back. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Canada is on the line. Maggie is calling.

Hi, Maggie. How are you? Hi. Good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? Well, Dave, I'd like to liquidate my portfolio and be able to put it, I want to trade with cryptocurrency.

And I just want your opinion. Do you listen to this show? Yes, I do. Okay. What are you currently invested in? I have an investment account. I have TSFA and I have a RIF account. And what has caused you to go, hey, you know what?

I'm going to trade all of that to go into crypto. Because I'm losing in my portfolio drastically this year. And I just know that I don't believe i'm going to come back like for a long time like i mean they say it'll come back but i think it's not going to come back for 10 years and i'm already 72 so i just feel like um and i've also have experienced um like it's not like i haven't i have been doing crypto trading now for a while have you seen the crypto market it's not like I haven't, I have been doing crypto trading now for a while. Have you seen the crypto market? It's a lot darker than the stock market.

You're trading a paper cut for a stab. Well, I've made money in the crypto market. How much? Probably about $10,000. Is that enough to retire on? No. What's in your investments currently? But I've also picked contracts that have been lower, definitely, because I haven't had that much money to do anything with. At your age, I'm not going to go to Vegas and just put

it all on black and hope for the best. That's not a great retirement plan. That worries me. Let's back up. Let's back up a second, okay? You're scared because your good investments went down. And right about the time I get desperate and scared is the step before I get really stupid. Desperate people and highly greedy people make the worst financial mistakes. And your fear is making you do statistically or suggesting that you do statistically the equivalent of putting this money on a roulette wheel or a hand of poker.

Because crypto is extremely volatile, extremely risky, at least 100 times more risky than your current retirement portfolio. At least. And you're telling me, oh, I put money in the slot machine, and I came out with more money than I put in. Well, I'm not doing it myself. I have a trader that's helping me, you know, like, so I never close my market in a negative position. It's always in a positive position in crypto.

Okay. Well, Maggie, you do what you want. I'm 62. Yeah. My net worth is hundreds of millions of dollars, and I have precisely zero in crypto. Right. And I'm not desperate, and I'm not scared.

Warren Buffett said he would pay for it. The idea that you have a trader doing it for you scares me for you even more because this is giving you false confidence. A, you've had some wins. B, you have someone whispering in your ear how wonderful they are and how they are going to take care of you, which is how people that are 72 years old lose everything they own. This is how it happens.

Please don't do this. But I don't think that the decision is really up in the air. I think you've already made your decision. And if I told Maggie, hey, two years from now, your money's going to be back to where it was in your retirement account. I don't know that she would do it, but it's hard to see that far out ahead when you just see your accounts bleeding out. And so you just want to do anything to not be doing that. One of the wealthiest men in the world says be greedy when others are cautious and cautious when others are greedy and that's warren buffett and he doesn't mean greedy like being a uh a bad person a lack of character greedy he means be aggressive when others are cautious and cautious when others are aggressive.

And crypto is no place to play with money that you can't afford to lose. And you're going to lose it. And then you're going to call me back and say, well, I had this guy who made me, you know, and he's singing a siren song, and I sure hope you don't do it, honey. I sure hope you don't do it. It sounds like this trader is probably telling her, hey, just liquidate and give me all your money this trader is definitely he's talked her up big time he's buttered her bread and this guy's a freaking con artist he's a crypto con man well we've also have the quote from warren buffett saying he

wouldn't pay 25 for all of the bitcoin in the world. And I think he's got more money than me, you, and your trader put together. So, you know, and I don't disagree with that at all. So it's just an extremely volatile market, and that's being kind. It's crazy crazy is what it is. But I don't have any money in it, and there's a reason. Crypto is way more down. Well, how much is it down, George? Do you know?

I mean, it depends on what coin. A lot of them went bankrupt. There's fraud. There's scams. Ninety-seven percent. Oh, and by the way, too, Maggie, the number of people that have lost, the number of dollars lost not in Bitcoin or not in crypto, but in fraud associated with crypto is what?

I mean, in the billions. Billions. It's two and a half billion dollars at this point have been lost to crypto and let me tell you who the number one target of the type of fraud and con is people over 65 people that are desperate and scared empty promises and so i'm not saying your trader is a con artist i'm just saying there's a higher probability that he's a con artist than if he was in any other business because of the number of crypto con artists that are out there people that are this this thing is drawn the worst of the worst and so you can do what you want to do but you made the mistake of calling here and asking

and we will give you our opinion and and we are experts on our opinion. Jessica is in Michigan. Hi, Jessica. What's up? Hi. My name is Jessica, and I am 37 years old, and I'm a single mom of two. And my question is, is how do I get the momentum to, I'm on baby step number one. I am about, uh, 30 or I'm sorry, $17,000 in debt between student loans. Um, no cop, my car's completely paid off, but I'm just

trying to get momentum into getting that cash shaved up for baby step number one. Cause I always try to validate my purchases and I'm just trying to find a way to get the momentum to stop validating these purchases. What's your income? Right now I make about a little over $38 a year. Okay. What has caused you to want to do this plan in the first place? I have been listening to Dave Ramsey off and on for about, let's see um about 11 years but i've really jumped into it more in the last um couple of months um wanting to say it wouldn't change my family tree i come from a

family where yeah where we've all not been so great with money and um my dad actually died i'll tell you how i did it jessica as a fellow spender yeah i looked at my kids they were babies and we were broke because of my stupidity and i said i'm not doing this anymore i'm sick and tired of being sick and tired and every time i got ready to spend i treat i would ask myself if i had to not spend this money so that i had the money to save the life of my child, could I do it? Could I find the discipline? And that was an easy answer, of course. And so I did stuff like I would practice going to Costco and buying nothing and walking out.

And that was like a breakthrough for me. Because I truly thought that if you went to Sam's or Costco that they check your receipt on the way out, that it was federal law that you had to spend $200 or you couldn't get out. They wouldn't let you out. That's why they check it. And I was that guy. And so I kind of had to equate it with the life of my children, which is a bit melodramatic, but it's also kind of true

because you want to change your family tree, you said. Yeah. What does 40-year-old Jessica want to look back on and say, man, I'm so glad Jessica made those decisions. And if that means, you know, taking away your debit card information from every website that you have, hiding it, having accountability with a friend, do whatever it takes. I would think if you've got a spending problem that Amazon Prime is not even a possibility. I'm cutting that out of my life. You got to turn it off. If you've got a spending problem, if you're trying to say, no, I'm not going to spend,

because that's just so easy. It's easy for me. I teach this stuff for a living. You've got to equate it with a big why, and you've got to be sick and tired of being sick and tired, and then gradually

you'll reform your character. This is The Ramsey Show Dave here you can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smart phone it's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes

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