The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Overpay for Your Education (Hour 1)

Episode Date: October 7, 2019

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Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is known, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. Well, it is a big week around here. We have officially launched now the first round of ammo firing downrange at the student loan debacle. And it is time to blow this thing up, and we are in the process of blowing it up. There are several places to blow it up. The last one will probably be the political one because they're so stupid it takes them a long time to catch on.

But a whole bunch of you have already caught on and realized student loans are a bad idea. They don't work. It's an epic plague on America with $1.6 trillion in student loan debt. All these unintended consequences affecting the economy, affecting people's lives, and they're trapped, they're overwhelmed, they don't know what to do, and Congress continues to make the loans. Did you hear me? America is being harmed by its own Congress.

Time to stop it, Congress. You're the last ones to catch on, so we'll go ahead and start with you. The rest of you out here have already caught on. You figured out smoking kills you, so you teach your kids, don't smoke. You figured out smoking weed removes all ambition from the brain. So you teach your kids, don't smoke weed. Figured out student loans are killing people. Not literally, in a few cases, but more extreme.

But figuratively, metaphorically, financially, they're stealing your dreams. And the whole idea of getting education was so that you could live your dreams. We want you to live your dreams. We want you to be smart people. We want you to be educated people. But the whole thing is, in this culture, we have been doing education in a stupid way. How's that for an oxymoron? So Anthony O'Neill is leading the charge.

He's the tip of the spear. His book tour for Debt-Free Degree started today. The book launched and is available in bookstores today. We are so excited about this. He started with an appearance this morning on Fox & Friends in New York City. I'm holding the list of the 70 media appearances he'll be doing in the next two weeks in my hands. This guy's going to be everywhere, and he's going to be doing book signings in a lot of these locations and around America.

I hope you got in on the pre-sale, but if you didn't, the book is only $20. Debt-free degree. How to send your kid to college debt-free, so that you don't add to this national problem, but more importantly, you don't bring a curse to your own family of teaching your kids that student loan debts are the only way to get an education. It's absurd. Don't do that. The first book signing will be tomorrow in Chicago, Barnes & Noble, 6 p.m.,

over there in the Skokie area, Old Orchard Center. And we'll be giving away $500. That could work towards your college fund. If you've got a baby, it could work a long way towards your college fund. Getting things started, right? No purchase necessary to win the money. You've got to be 18 or older, of course, all those state laws and everything. So here's the deal.

Get in touch with Debt Free Degree. Learn this stuff. This is the week. By the way, thank you, the Borrowed Future podcast about the student loan debacle. Episode 1 launched last Monday, and it is already in the top 10 in the Apple podcast. So pretty incredible. That puts us in the top 1% of all podcasts. It's actually beating this show, and this show is always up there,

right around the top 20, top 10. I'm running like 15 or 16 today, and it's running 10. So I'm beating up on myself. How smart is that? But anyway, here we are. So Borrowed Future, eight episodes. Another one drops today, the second episode. You can subscribe wherever you get great podcasts.

This will blow your mind. This is not a Ramsey personality podcast. It's the first time the Ramsey Network has done something that's not. This is all about experts, and some of us are experts in this space. So I'm quoted. Anthony's quoted. So on. Ken Coleman.

Different ones through the process. So download that podcast. Let's learn about this stuff, people. Let's change this. You want to go to school debt-free? We're giving away $10,000 worth of scholarships at DaveRamsey.com and AnthonyO'Neill.com, rather. We've got 10,000 scholarships that you can search through free at AnthonyO'Neill.com, and none of them are a loan hidden inside a scholarship. Boy, the skunky stuff some of you people are doing to these kids out there,

you ought to have your ears boxed. It's unbelievable. Oh, come get the free grant and scholarship and then when he signs up he finds out it was a loan you skunks you need to stop this stuff man you stink it's bad you want to know what your college is going to cost all the major colleges and most of the minor ones are in our database we've got a college calculator you can jump on at anthonyoneal.com completely free we're going to help you stop this this is a series of decisions that we're making that are dumb and they're based on mythology and the mythology has to stop one piece of mythology is all education pays off no it doesn't

if you get a phd in german polka history that's not going to pay off for you go 175 000 in debt and then call me up and tell me you can't get a job well no duh dumb butt you studied something that doesn't work in the marketplace of course it doesn't all pay off all education is not valuable in the marketplace you get these nuanced little tiny degrees down in some little corner of the world that two people do you know we do dog archaeology what you're kidding me canine archaeology you got a degree in that they make a degree and they don't i made that up but goodness i mean people do this stuff and then they go i can't find anyone who's doing canine archaeology and i spent 74 000 getting the whole culture lied to me no you were a dumb butt and your parents They go, I can't find anyone that's doing canine archaeology. And I spent $74,000 getting it.

The whole culture lied to me. No, you were a dumb butt. And your parents were worse. They let you do it. They ought to have their ears boxed. Grab your kid by the ears. Go, don't get a degree in something stupid. It makes you look stupid.

You'd have been better off just being stupid and not in debt. Don't do it. Don't do it. Get a degree in something where you actually learn something that you can actually use in the marketplace and where are you to go to school nobody gives a rip where you go to school unless you're hanging around with a bunch of blue buds with sunburn on their upper lip because their nose is in the air no one else gives a rip you went to harvard no one else out here in the real world real real people like me, we don't care.

All we care is can you do the work? Are you dumber than a rock? Can you actually have brain cells that rub together? Did you learn something while you were getting that degree? I meet people who are much more valuable in the marketplace that did two years of community college, two years of state school, worked their way through and paid cash than some guy $240,000 in debt because he was all concerned about where he went to school because he thought where he went to school was an indicator of his future success. That's a lie.

There's absolutely no data out there. Well, the connections you make are with other stupid broke people. That's who you make connections with. That's the biggest lie ever told. Where you went to school matters for less than 1% of the jobs. It's a joke. It's a joke. Don't overpay for your education.

Can you tell we're waging war around here? We're tired of the stupidity, and we're tired of people's lives being torn apart by it. Get this book, Debt-Free Degree. It'll help you change your life. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs?

Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major health care costs. Christian Health Care Ministries is the original health cost-sharing ministry. A Better Business Bureau-accredited organization, CHM members share to pay each other's medical bills. It's not insurance. It's Christians financially and spiritually supporting each other. It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years, and our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. There is hope in America, I can tell you that.

I'll tell you where I always find hope. I always find hope in the heartland. So I go out at the commercial break to get my picture made, sign books, meet with folks, and I already met Hope. A couple walks up and said, well, you know how to send kids to school, school debt-free. Really? How'd you do that? He said, we sent two. How'd you do that? Well, they lived at home for the first two years, and they worked the whole time they were in college.

And they went to our in-state school, University of Nebraska. See, and Nebraska people still have sense. Some of them. But at least them two do. And so, you know, that's where common sense comes from is places like Nebraska. It doesn't come from some of you other people. I know where you live and uh and it's just it's that's just like they they look they look those are the people that look at me and go you make a living

doing this don't you that's just amazing i do i do i make a living with common sense and i have made a good living for 30 years with common sense and it's shocking to people that have common sense others think i'm a genius because i invented it or something dave is with us dave's gonna start off this hour in kansas if i can make the phone work hey dave how are you well come on phone phone's jammed up boys and girls all right let me see if i can get it to work this time. Dave, are you there? Dave, not there. All right, let's try it.

None of them are working. They're all down. All right, open. There he goes. Hey, Dave, how are you? Hey, Dave, great. Great to speak with you. God, I'm in here pushing buttons like I'm typing.

What's up, man? How can I help? Hey, I got this offer for a lump sum on my retirement, on my pension plan. The pension plan was only active for a short time, so I can either take $302 at age 65, or I can take a lump sum right now of $23,646, or I can take a payment of $108 for the rest of my life starting now. And I was wondering on the lump sum, does that sound about right? Does the number sound right? Yes.

Okay. And I would take it. I know, yes, I will. Yeah, the reason is real simple. When you die, there's no money left behind. Otherwise, when you die, this money will turn into money that's left behind. And you can invest it in good mutual funds and make 10%, 12%. Your pension, all those calculations are done on 6.5% right now, maybe 7%, maybe 6%.

Yeah, I got 14 years to go before I'm 65, and if I can get 10%, I think you can double twice in that amount of time, which would put it at about $92,000. Yeah, and then it'll pay more than a lot more than what you're talking about while you're alive. And, of course, the $92,000 survives you and would go to your heirs when otherwise it doesn't. So, thanks. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You guys jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money.

It is a free call out there. So jump in and we'll talk about your life and your money. It is a free call out there. So jump in and we'll talk. So here's the thing. CNBC is saying, well, I'm working on my phones. We'll talk about this. There's a theory. This is the CNBC title. There's a theory that stingy millennials are to blame for the sluggish economy.

Oh, my God. I am so sick of New York media ripping on millennials. They're such an easy target, and it's just so wrong. So come on, Pippa. That's her name that wrote the article. The U.S. personal savings rate is rising, and it's holding back the economy, says a study by Raymond James. Savings rates are now higher, leading to excess supply.

Seemingly everywhere in the economy, says analyst Tavis McCourt, wrote in a note to his clients on Thursday. He believes the rising rate is driven by millennials saving more following the financial crisis. God forbid we can't have that. Millennials, this is the article, this just drives me, the millennials, the selfie-obsessed, avocado-toast-loving generation might be behind the slower economic growth. Well, why don't we blame them for global warming? Oh, my gosh. This new generation, scarred by the financial crisis, is saving more than the free-spending boomers did before them, and it's causing an economic imbalance. Personal savings rate is 8.1% as of August.

By comparison, in 1996, the rate was 5.7%. So let me get this straight. Your conclusion from the millennials saving more is that they were scarred. How about if I give you a new conclusion? Oftentimes, when someone is raised by alcoholic parents they don't drink in other words they learn the lessons of what brought curses into their family instead of blessings into their family so if the millennials were raised by materialistic, conspicuous consumption,

baby boomers, my generation, who are retiring broke because they've invested and saved no money as a generation, maybe the millennials are the smartest generation to come along in four generations and they actually looked at the boomers and went, well, that crap didn't work. Maybe they noticed what brought curses on their family instead of blessings on their family. Maybe their conservative tendencies and their need for, their lowered need for conspicuous consumption and materialism is not based on scarring maybe it's based on the fact that they're the most spiritually mature generation at their age to come along in

about three generations they don't need stuff to be happy i think it's a huge compliment to millennials oh yeah some of them are fraidy cats and they're in the corner like a snowflake sucking their thumb i get that but i'll tell you what i know a whole bunch of them are fraidy cats, and they're in the corner like a snowflake sucking their thumb. I get that. But I tell you what, I know a whole bunch of them that are braver than a bunch of you, especially people who write articles like this stuff. A whole bunch of them just aren't motivated by stuff. My generation, we created the 80s. Remember the 80s?

I remember. Buy everything. And if buying everything, if conspicuous consumption and excessive materialism to the point that there is no savings for your future, if that's how a positive economy is created, you don't know anything about a positive economy. A positive economy has a balance between consumption and a savings rate. And 8.1% is not particularly high as a savings rate. Your rate of generosity and your rate of savings is an indication of the maturity of your population, the emotional maturity of your population.

Emotionally mature people know that living for self 100% of the time is called self-ish, and it's unrewarding. Emotionally mature people are outlandishly outrageously generous. Emotionally mature people have learned how to delay pleasure. It's one sign of emotional maturity. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. If you can save money and be outrageously generous, it's an indication regardless of your chronological age that you are emotionally mature. Maybe that's what the

millennials are. But if your economy is based on consumption to the point that there is no generosity and materialism to the point that there is no savings, you have an unstable economy built on the back of a false set of data meaning the an unrealistic that can't not sustainable level of spending and every time the spending slows down the whole thing goes into a tailwind and we have another recession you want to do away with periodic recessions increase the savings rate and the generosity rate because then everything's not so freaking volatile if companies actually had retained earnings they wouldn't have to lay off their people every time there was a downturn if people actually had money saved every time they had a personal downturn they wouldn't be in trouble maybe the millennials are the next great hope if they've got the highest savings rate in the last four generations.

Maybe the economy, if the economy, the way you guys, according to the study, according to CNBC, if the economy has to be propped up by excessive materialism and excessive spending, then you don't have a real economy. A steady economy is the enjoyment of stuff, some spending, then you don't have a real economy. A steady economy is the enjoyment of stuff, some spending, the enjoyment of earning, the enjoyment of saving, and the enjoyment of outlandish, outrageous generosity. Americans spent $70 billion on our pets last year. I'm not against frou-frou.

I love frou-frou. Fee-fee. Rufus the Shih Tzu is mine. But $70 billion? Wow. Way to go, millennials. We love you. Ramsey, we like you around here.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Josh and Sarah are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Hey, we're good. Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live? We live in Atlanta, Georgia. Cool. Welcome to Nashville.

And all the way up here to do a debt-free scream. How much have you paid off? We paid off $68,000. Very good. How long did this take? About four years, 48 months. Excellent. And your range of income during that time? Anywhere between $39,000 and $44,000 net pay. Ah, gotcha. What do y'all do for a living? We work for a campus ministry at the University of Georgia called the Navigators. Yeah,

I know Navigators well. It's a great operation. Very cool. So you're on the campus, the University of Georgia. That's right. And you're standing on my debt-free stage after you put a whooping on my balls Saturday night. Yep. This is just wrong. We had nothing to do with it. I don't see anything wrong with it. That's fun.

Very cool. What kind of debt was the $68,000? All of my student loans. Oh, look at that. How long have you two been married? About four years. Okay. Very cool. What kind of debt was the 68,000? All of my student loans. Oh, look at that. How long you two been married? About four years. Okay. Very cool. So first order of business when we get married is get out of student loan debt. Tell me your story. What happened? Yeah. So yeah, like we said, about four years ago, we got married. And before being engaged, I was just making the minimum payments on my loans. I felt really okay with that. But I read your book, The Total Money Makeover,

and the gazelle-like intensity really stood out to me, and I just started to think, maybe I shouldn't pay just the minimum. Maybe I should go a little bit more aggressive, but didn't really know exactly how to put that in practice. And I didn't have any loans before being married. No car loans, student loans, credit card debt. So how? I mean, that's that's weird. I mean, were you raised by people who knew how to have common sense? I mean, what's the deal? I got a scholarship to my

university. I worked during school. I was an R.A. for a year and my parents graciously helped out. So, and I stayed in an in-state school and chose my school based on scholarship. So. Look at you and you're 100% debt free. And so you meet this guy and you're like, you need to turn it up a little or what? What'd you tell him? Yeah, I had read your book too. And I knew that when we got married, we were going to have to aggressively pay off this debt. So part of our premarital counseling was doing a budget together and talking about finances. And we were just on the same page that we want to pay off this debt as fast as we can. Very good.

Very good. Very cool. Who did your premarital counseling? It was some leaders in the Navigator. Navigator leaders, good. They knew their stuff. Excellent. Good job.

That's a great organization. Great organization. Very cool, you guys. So 48 months for $68,000, making $39,000 or $40,000 basically through that period of time average. What's the key to getting out of debt? Yeah, I think one thing that kept coming up again and again was that in order to say yes to being debt-free, we would just have to say no to a lot of other things,

saying no to taking really nice vacations, saying no to having all the new and nice things. Yeah, we just had to say no to a lot in order to say yes to debt-free. A verse that really helped me do that was Luke 12, 15. It says, take care and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. And I just found that when I would desire to have something, it was because I thought that it would give me life. And I knew from experience that that wasn't true, that I would just want the next thing as soon as I had that.

But that verse, just as a reminder that my life is not in the abundance of things, just made it easier for me to say no. Yeah. Amen. So we had crappy phones that we ran out of storage. We couldn't take pictures. But it was all for a bigger goal, and we knew that we were stewards of God's money. So we wanted to do the best that we could. So you guys were really game on.

You were very intentional during this four years. So what are you, 27, 28? 28, yes. Okay. And how's it feel? Was it worth it? Yes. I feel so free i mean i love now that we have income that isn't going to someone else

but we're working on our six-month emergency fund and i think the process it was really hard but i think god used it to grow my desires to help other people in their finances and we work with college students so i meet with our seniors and tell them your baby steps and help them set up a budget and we just want the best for them with their finances and I've always been a numbers person so it's just another way to help people and use that gift and I've also wrote a blog through our process just Oh, cool. Just sharing some of the tips and things that we've done. Freedominfinances.wordpress.com. Okay.

So if people want to check it out. Yeah, absolutely. There's some very practical things on there. Yeah. Very practical. Well, it added a dimension to the ministry you have with the kids. Yeah. That's what it amounts to, the young people, the young college adults or whatever we call them.

Yeah. Okay. Very cool, you guys. Very cool. So who was your biggest cheerleaders? We had different friends and family. Your show, the Debt-Free Screams, are really encouraging along the way. There were some times when it was just really hard.

What was the lowest point emotionally of the four years? You remember the event or the situation? I don't know if there was. Where it got just really hard. There were, I don't know if there was a single moment. But going back to what I said about how we had to say no to a lot of things. We had friends that were able to say yes to those same things. And so it was easy to just be really jealous.

Not content about where we were, just feeling behind in finances. That was just, it was hard. There were a few things in particular that we saw other friends, they were able to say yes. And we were just, I really want that right now, and I don't have to wait. So let's put this in perspective for those of you listening. You need to hear the math real carefully here a forty thousand dollar income where the average household income in america is sixty and they paid off seventeen thousand dollars a year out of forty thousand minus taxes i mean

you didn't even eat much rice and beans i still eat rice and beans it's one of my favorite foods for the rest of your life oh no we calculated that we lived on eighteen thousand dollars last year wow and i think the whole contentment thing is a big part we're just i don't know it's kind of like once you know you can do it though for the rest of your life you know you can do it because you'll always probably i mean very likely you'll make more money every year for the rest of your life, you know you can do it. Because you'll always, I mean, very likely you'll make more money every year for the rest of your life, give or take. I mean, you may have a bad year or something, but more than likely, every decade over decade, you'll make a little more as you go along. But now you know, because you did it, you can live on 18. So, go ahead. I'm sorry.

I think a big part to just learning i feel like i just saw josh and i are a great team and i don't know i don't know hard things will happen in life but i just through this experience of getting out of debt know that josh and i through god's help will make it through yeah you solidified the team yeah Yeah, that's very cool. Okay, so I was ranting right before you came on in that other segment about millennials saving more, and my contention was that they're not doing that because they're broken or scarred, but it's because they've observed a generation where it didn't work. You're millennials. You're successful.

You're rock stars. You did this. You run around. Obviously, your peer group are millennials. My're successful. You're rock stars. You did this. You run around. Obviously, your peer group are millennials. My son's your age. What do you see out there? Am I wrong? I mean, you can tell me I'm wrong.

I'm okay. Are they all shallow and scared to death, and so they're running and saving money, or are they saving money because they observed that not saving it didn't work? I think a little bit of both. I do see more financial insecurity in our college students today. They're just not sure if they're going to make it financially when they hit the real world. I'm talking about your peer group. Yeah.

Four years out of school, five years out of school, not the college students. I guess I don't see it as much um i guess since we're around college students so often um i just think it's easy it's a lot easier for me to see them yeah what they've done okay very cool good job you guys josh and sarah from atlanta georgia 68 000 paid off in 48 months making 39 to 44 proud Proud of you guys. Very proud of you. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free!

Yeah! Well, obviously, we've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book, Everyday Millionaires, for you. That's the next chapter in your story. That's where you two are headed. You can do anything. You can do anything. You've got the teamwork nailed down. You've got the contentment nailed down.

You've got the tools now. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. All right. We're going to go back to the phones, and we're going to talk to Dan in Illinois. Hey, Dan. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you, Dave. It's an honor to talk to you. You too, sir. What's up? Okay, so I'm thinking about paying off my house at the end of this year. I owe about $60,000 left on it, or selling it at a loss and renting um you know my house is worth less than i paid for it 15 years ago

along with everybody else in the chicago area no no no no stop that is absolutely not true now there may be some pockets in the chicago area but everybody else in the chicago area's house is not worth less than it was 15 years ago? We're still about 12% less than the peaks in the Chicagoland area. The peak of 2006, it's still off from the peak. And in my houses, you know, it's worth probably about 8% less than what I paid for it in 2004. And same with all the other houses in my neighborhood. It's, you know, it's, it's a general Chicago area. Yeah, it's, it's not doing well. And, you know, I've had this

property for 15 years and it's worth, worth less than what I paid for it. And so I'm close to paying it off, but I'm worried about having a quarter of my net worth tied up in this asset that's declined over 15 years. And I don't see things getting any better in Illinois. But I don't want to rent. I thought you said it was worth less, 8% less. It's worth less. 8% less than it was at the peak. Well, my house is worth less.

It has gone down every year. It's gone down every year since the peak. It's spiked, gone down, gone up a little, gone down. But on average, the Chicago area is still about 12%. That's not what I'm asking about. I'm asking about your house. So my house has pretty much crashed in 2007, 2008, and then it's gone up steadily. But it's still a good—

It's not recovered all of what it has lost. Right. Your house. Exactly. Okay. Yep. I'm still... But since 2007, 2008, it has gone up in value.

Yes. It has gone up. It hasn't reached a peak yet, but it's gone up. Why do you not think it is going to continue to go up? Because Illinois has had five years in a row of population decline, and the pension problem in Illinois is getting worse. They're not solving it. Really, the only way to get out of this pension issue is to raise property taxes more.

So the only way you can own, in your mind, the only way you can own real estate is to leave that area? The state, I'm thinking, or rent. That's my option. No, renting won't fix it because renting destabilizes your largest expense. Renting is an okay theory for short term, and it is a good thing to do on the short term it is not a good plan for you for the rest of your life because you've lost hope in real estate in this particular situation um how old are you i am 48 okay if i were you ask what i would do if i were in your shoes um uh i don't disagree that the state of illinois is probably possibly the worst run state

in the union and with that their pension plan i do not disagree with that and i think that has had an effect on the overall economy it's just a hot mess without a doubt i don't disagree with that i do disagree that i'm not going to take it as far as the data that I've seen, the people we interact with in the Chicagoland area. I do disagree that it's going to cause a complete collapse of the economy in Chicago, to the point that your house is not going to continue to go up in value. It has gone up in value consistently since 2007, 2008. You said that. So as a part of your net worth going up in value and being paid for and being a stabilized,

you've stabilized and locked in the expense except for the increase in taxes. You've locked in the expense on your largest budget item in the largest item in your budget which is housing and so um it's going up in value now if i'm if i believe like you believe then um what i might plan to do is to leave the area upon retirement and cash out and go to an area that you believe is going to be more prosperous and so forth. I'm not completely giving up on Illinois or Chicago, but I don't disagree with you that it's poorly run and the pension thing is a debacle. I've read every bit of that.

I know what you're talking about. So anyway, I think you have painted this a little bit darker than I would paint it, and that little bit of difference causes me to pay off the house and stay in it until retirement. And if you're going to give up on the area completely to the point you feel like you need to rent, you probably need to move. You need to look at changing your career or moving your career path and get out of the area where you just don't want to stay. I mean, why would you stay in an area that you feel like is going down the toilet completely? All values, everything, you know, all the housing values,

the economy, the tax base, everything, all indicators are negative. If you really believe all those things to be true to the point that you can't own a single-family home in the area, then you probably need to just leave the area. I'm not to that point yet. I'm not telling everybody to leave Chicago yet. But I do know that there's a mess. I'm not disagreeing with you on that part. Hope that helps you.

Something to think about. And appreciate you calling in. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Alicia is with us. Alicia is in Maryland. Hi, Alicia. How are you? Hi, Dave.

I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Great. So I am co-coordinating my first FPU class, and one of my members had a question. Basically, they're having a foundation issue that has to be taken care of sooner rather than later before the weather gets bad.

It's going to be about $13,000. They just started the baby steps, so they do not have the liquid cash. He suggested a couple different things, and I obviously nixed the 401k um and then he also mentioned that he has a line of credit through his home equity and then you know being the coordinator i thought maybe checking in with like a credit union or a bank or something of that effect just not sure how to guide him you know you're aware we teach people not to borrow money, right? Yes, and that's what I'm worried about. Yeah.

And so here's the thing. Foundation repairs tend to have 3X drama of just about any other repair on the house. The two things where people lose their minds are mold and foundation and i don't know what it is about those things or about the industries that sell into those things the contractors that sell those businesses uh some of them are on the up and up i actually endorse some foundation repair people around the nation but we vet them very very hard um and so what i would first do is tell them to get three or four options very Very seldom do foundations suddenly fall in. Okay.

It's kind of like your roof suddenly goes bad, right? Right. It doesn't do that. And so what Dave and Sharon Ramsey did when we had major home repairs and we couldn't afford to fix them and we refused to borrow money was we patched them, held it together until we could get to the spring until we could get to the time that we could get out of the debt and get the money saved up to do it i climbed on the roof and put the smeared that uh black caulk and stuff all over my roof it looked

horrible because it was leaking and going down the uh going down the uh light fixture dripping onto the kitchen table. Now, light fixtures and water don't mix where I come from, and so you shouldn't have that. And so it was bothering me. So I got up there and spread this tar stuff all over the roof that I paid $26 for. I did the same thing with the heating and air. We bought some window fans. Our heating and air went out in August in Tennessee, which is really bad.

Because you can cut the humidity here and block it and stack it if you want. It's so thick. And so not having air conditioning is a big deal with little kids and a mad wife. But we didn't pay $8,000 to have the roof repaired and we didn't pay $6,000 to have the heating and air replaced. They both felt like necessities at the time. There was a lot of drama and wailing and gnashing of teeth around them, but we didn't do it. We held it together until we could save up the money and pay cash for the repair.

And that's what I'm going to suggest. I doubt very seriously this house is going to fall in this winter. I doubt very seriously. I might be wrong, but I doubt it. And no, I'm not going to participate in him borrowing money. He'll have to do that on his own. Because I don't think it's good for you. That puts this hour of The Dave Ramsey Show in the books.

This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Once again, you made The Dave Ramsey Show. Once again, you made The Dave Ramsey Show one of the top five most downloaded podcasts last year. To get your daily dose of motivation and inspiration, subscribe today.