The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Put an Artificial Cap on Your Career Growth (Hour 1)

Episode Date: October 1, 2020

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions and broadcasted from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is The Dave Ramsey Show. It's where America hangs out to have a conversation about life, money, career, relationships. Oh, yeah. We go deep because you really matter. I'm Ken Coleman, host of The Ken Coleman Show on the Ramsey Network. So excited to be with my colleague, my good pal, Dr. John Deloney.

As we come to you this hour, it is your show, 888-825-5225. That's the phone number, 888-825-5225. John is the host of The Dr. John Deloney Show, another show on the Ramsey Network. He specializes in relationships, mental health, and I specialize in working on purpose, your career. You were created to contribute through your work. And we take your money calls as well, which is interesting, John, because every money call has a relationship component to it. It just does. So much.

We've heard Dave talk about this stuff for years as he unpacks the relational nuances. And then you think about where I specialize on is the idea of showing up on Monday morning fired up to do work that you know you're good at, that you love to do that produces a result that matters to you. And by the way, money's a big part of that. You want to get out of debt, get in your sweet spot and work in a job you love, you will believe how you'll promote yourself and make more money. So we're going to be talking about money.

We're going to be talking about life. We're going to get into the sticky stuff, the fun stuff. And you and I both share this in common. We don't mind getting a little deeper. Let's go, man. So it's a little bit of a warning. Yeah. But I also, John, I feel like I want to put this challenge out today,

and I want you to add whatever you feel you want to add to this. I feel like there's some people right now that are listening, and they're hurting. They're scared. They're full of doubt. Confused. Don't feel like there's a whole lot of hope. Not a way out.

And I think they need to call today. Today could be the day. If you'll trust John and I, we're going to take good care of you. Give us a call, man. All right. There it is. Absolutely. 888-825-5225.

We're going to get it started with Eric, who joins us in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. Eric, how can we help? Hey, how's it going? We're having a blast. What's going on with you? Not much. So my situation is my girlfriend and I have been together now for about 11 years, nine of which we have lived together, and we also have a four-year-old son a little bit before our son was born i kind of took on the uh the majority of everything that's financial financially related such as you know expenses and and bills and such and um it's been about almost a full year now since i've been listening to dave ramsey and the crew non-stop and it's got my uh it's got me thinking about uh marriage since i know you know what he says about keeping finances uh separated when you're not actually married and

such and when i think about marriage i i feel good about it it makes sense to tie the knot you know both legally and also also spiritually however i also get uh get these feelings of a little bit of anger and resentment since I'm the sole financial provider right now. So my question is, do I get married and accept my role as what would be, you know, husband, father, and sole provider, since right now she said she wants to be a stay-at-home mom? And if I do, if so, how do I move forward dealing with, you know, any feeling of resentment that tends to creep up? Man, you just unpacked a lot here. Let's start with a couple of things.

What are you still apprehensive about after 11 years, a decade? I don't know. I guess I just got used to, you know, what we're doing. I think... What would be different, man? What would be different if you're married? That's the thing. Absolutely nothing, really. Whoa! Except everything, right? Except everything. Yeah. I guess so.

Wow. And so the second thing is when you talk about you're finally going to accept this responsibility, that's nonsense, brother. You've already accepted it. You've got a kid. That responsibility is yours. You've committed to somebody for over a decade. That responsibility you've already taken on. So it sounds like you've got some kind of magical unicorn barrier to this idea of quote unquote marriage. The second thing is what are

you getting mad about, dude? What are you getting frustrated about? Yeah, that's the thing. And it was hard to even admit that I felt some sort of resentment even to myself, but I just noticed it creeping up every now and then. What are you resenting? I guess, you know, when our son was first born, I thought, you know, six months and she'll be back to work, and then a year later and a couple years later, and I guess really it's just temporary. Brother Eric, have you ever stayed at home for an extended period of time with a youngster? Oh man, a couple times, yeah. And I'm waiting for her to get back. I'm going to weigh in here.

I've been very patient, and I can no longer wait. So, Eric, I'm going to take a stab at something here, and I don't mind being wrong. It's happened before. I think that the source of the resentment is that you aren't where you want to be financially. You aren't where you want to be in your life. And you feel like if she worked full time outside of the house own disillusionment with where you're at to actually creep off of you and over onto her. I think that's what's really going on.

Yes or no? Yeah, I think that is a big part of it, hearing you say that. And at the same time, I feel like in a rush to get somewhere where I think I want to be. Here's my concern, and I'm going to let John, you pick up here. I just am concerned that if you don't get healthy on your own problems with where you are at, that getting married is going to be an even bigger problem. You resent her now, and you should not resent her. It's not a her problem.

It's a you problem. We're not beating up on you. But I would tell you right you right now no don't get married until you get healthy john eric i want to go back to something you said a minute ago and just stop myself for a second and i want to applaud you most men all right who find themselves frustrated and angry even if it's about things they know they probably shouldn't be frustrated or angry about don't have the courage to say it out loud so i want to high five you that is true okay good for you eric you're way ahead of the curve how old are you i'm uh 34 you're 34 all right here's the deal i'm gonna say something that pretty direct okay just because

we're on the radio and we're on a clock all right you've got to accept the fact that you've got to grow up okay okay um one of the things that we do often is we continually think back to the way things were look how cool it was when we were 18 and look how cool it was when we first met and we had freedom we able to run around look at the things we were able to do when we had a dual income. Look at the things we can't do now because we have a kid. And what happens is you start dragging your old stuff into the future, trying to keep your future connected to your past. Brother, you've got a new world.

You have a child. You have a stay-at-home mom who's trying to raise that kid the best she can. You've got to love her brother i'm gonna side with ken you gotta take care of you go see somebody and then you go get married eric stop asking am i where i want to be and start asking am i who i want to be get that figured out everything else will take care of itself good stuff dr john deloney ken coleman here with you on the day don't move More coming right up. I get asked all the time about what people need to do to improve their family's money situation. Two of the most overlooked things are term life insurance and disability insurance.

Both plans make sure that you have income to pay bills and take care of yourself and your family if something were to happen. For term life, you need to carry 10 to 12 times your income, and I recommend 15 or 20-year plans for most families. Stay away from cash value or return of premium plans. They're just a ripoff. Disability insurance is just as critical. How are you going to pay your bills if you're unable to work? Disability is the leading cause of bankruptcies and foreclosures.

That's why I send you to Zander Insurance. They've been helping my listeners find the right plans at the lowest cost for almost 20 years. Call 800-356-1780 or visit zander.com and compare online. That's 800-356-1780 or zander.com. Welcome back, America. You are listening to The Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Ramsey Personality, Ken Coleman, joined by Ramsey Personality, Dr. John Deloney. And we're taking your calls this hour.

We're going to talk about life in the form of your money. We're going to talk about your career. We're going to talk about your relationships. So if you're stuck in any one of those areas or you're scared in any one of those areas, you need some clarity, Dr. Deloney and I are here for you. You know, I'm thinking about getting a doctorate now that I'm hanging out with you. For sure. I think it would be fun one time, just once, to hear somebody say Dr. Coleman. I'll start saying it regularly.

Yeah, but you can't say it unless it's legit. I can say it. This is America. Yeah, it won't feel the same. It won't feel the same. I think you should um they're easy to get um depending what school you go to i love it triple eight eight two five five two two five is the number triple eight eight two five five two two five if you spend any time with ramsey solutions in the dave ramsey show you know we focus on how to handle your money the right way, how to pay off debt, how to save for emergencies, how to build wealth.

Now, our colleague and good friend, number one bestselling author and money expert, Rachel Cruz, is focusing on the why. She's written a brand new book called Know Yourself, Know Your Money. This is going to help you explore your experiences with money so you can understand why you approach money the way you do. It's for everybody, no matter what baby step you're on. So if you want to understand your why and know the how to change your family tree, pre-order this soon-to-be best-selling book.

Know yourself, know your money. You can get it today for $20 and then get over $150 in bonus items, including a free financial coaching call with one of our certified financial coaches. Don't miss out. Pre-order it online at DaveRamsey.com or call our concierge team at 888-22-PEACE. All right, 888-825-5225 is the number. We're going to go back to the phones. Daniel joins us in Myrtle Beach.

Daniel, how can we help? Hey, Ken, how are you? I am living the dream. What's going on? Great. I just read your book, Proximity Principle. Love it. And I kind of feel like I've already been kind of living that out without knowing it. My issue is that I've been doing the same career for 10 years now, and I love what I do. I love the day-to-day activities that go along with it, but I feel like I've hit a wall on the income side, and I'm having trouble moving up, offering to take on additional tasks, and I don't seem to be getting anywhere with that.

I'm 26, and I have a long road to go in my working career, and I just feel like I've got the rest of my working career that I don't want to not move up anymore and grow. Sure. Well, let's talk about what moving up looks like. Can you give me, let's just go down the line. You're only 26, so I appreciate your perspective. You are very young.

This is a 46-year-old talking to you here, so you're young. What's the top of the ladder look like for you? What's the top of the ladder look like for you? What's the dream job? My dream job would be owning a service company. I'm in the car wash business, and right now I'm a service technician for a fairly large car wash company. And I think my dream job would be doing service work on my own. Right. Well, really owning your own service company, do you think it's in the car space or you're not quite sure what space that service company is in? I'm not sure. All right. Well, that's not a problem because you're 26, but you're pretty clear here.

You eventually want to work for yourself, and you wanted to be in the service business. So when you say you're a service technician right now, if I come to your place of work with my nasty car, what am I seeing you doing right now? What does that mean? I know what the title is, but what are you doing? Right, so I work on the equipment at at any car wash so if you if you go anywhere and wash your car i'm the guy that got the pumps running and the electrical and the plumbing and okay so what is the next step up let's say you weren't experiencing frustration or challenges and moving up what is the next position up above you in your current place of employment? The next step would be as my current employer grows, there would be a need for

additional service technicians. So there would be hopefully a future role of being a service manager where I would have other technicians under me. Okay, and right now that doesn't exist. That is correct. So that means there's really not, in your current place of employment, there's really not a next rung on the ladder other than owning the place. Am I right? That is correct.

All right, so here's the good news. The good news is you're doing everything you can do. You're really not hitting a lid. You think it's a lid because you're 26, but you haven't hit a lid. You're not ready to own your own place yet. You don't have the cash to do that. And so as we look back to what you said your long-term goal was, you're going to need a certain amount of capital, a certain amount of cash,

if you're doing it the Ramsey Solutions way, to then open up whatever this service business will be. So your goal right now at 26 is, oh, it's not, oh, Ken, I'm capped. What do I do? Well, there is no position yet. So what you do is you begin to tell your current leader, which is the owner of the business, hey, as this business grows and we bring in more of me, I would like to be the guy who trains them and leads them. Cast some vision. See what he says. And that's a really good thing to do. But in the meantime, at 26, if you don't have any kind of family constraints, I'd be working a second job in another service business that you might be interested in. Why? Because you're going to get

paid to learn how to run that business and watch how that business operates. Plus, we need to put as much money as possible in savings so that at 36, maybe you've got what you need. Maybe at 30, you've got what you need to be able to start your own service business on the side and then you grow that up. So my message to you today is focus on the now. The next is going to take care of itself. And what you need to do in the now is show your current owner that you really are the person. You cast that vision, but you are the person to do it. And you show yourself worthy of that opportunity because that's going to be big. If you want to

lead your own company one day, you better lead some people for somebody else. And so I would tell you focus on the next and excuse me, focus on the now and the next will take care of itself. That's your message. And you're 26 and you're not capped right now. There is no lid on you. This is about taking care of business right now, showing yourself worthy of being able to train people to do what you prove you do better than anybody else. And we see this a lot, John. I mean, it's natural. There's nothing wrong with what he's thinking. He's 26. Humans are conditioned for progress. And we feel at times where we reach a place where we're not progressing as fast as we want.

We create an artificial lid. Right. And it's important, I think, for folks to know the difference between being a killer service technician, 24-7, 365, I'm the guy, I can fix anything, and somebody who is managing service technicians. Because now you're a technician of the human heart. You're a technician of people's desires. People didn't show up on the weekend, right? That's a whole different job, even though it's in the same house with the same shirt on, right? And so getting around some folks that can teach them how to work with people, how to manage and lead others, that's a whole different skill set, right? Well, and you know, you and I know this because we're surrounded by

Dave Ramsey and great leaders in Ramsey Solutions, and so there's this constant leadership culture in front of us. Here's what people forget sometimes. You cannot be a good leader. You certainly cannot be a great leader if you are not first a good follower and then a good leader. Don't underestimate the power of working for somebody. This young man, he wants to own his own business one day. Best thing somebody can do who wants to eventually be an entrepreneur, work for somebody who's in the business or the space you want to be in and let them pay you to learn how to run it. That's right.

And you're doing a really good job. They say, here's your responsibilities, X, X, X, X, and X. You do all of those to the best of your ability, but you're also like this. Dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee. And you're looking around and you're going, I would do it differently. That's right. I think he could do this better. but you're also like this. Dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee. And you're looking around and you're going, I would do it differently. That's right. I think he could do this better. But you're not criticizing that, you're just making notes. Right. You get a master's degree.

And how important is the question, I really love the way you talk to him. Will you teach me how you did that? Yes. Oh, man. Oh, boy. Who doesn't want to share that? Brilliant advice from Dr. John Deloney. You want the key for knowledge? Tell somebody you value the way they do things. You look up to the way they do things.

You want to do it the way they do it. Will they teach you? And the answer is always going to be yes. You bet. Hey, don't move. More of the Dave Ramsey Show coming right up. It's real life on your radio. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague,

Dr. John Deloney, as we take you through this hour. And we're talking life. We're talking money. We're talking about your career, your work. We're talking about your relationships, your mental health. It's wide open. And we're bringing you hope through clarity. We're going to be honest with you. We're going to listen and dive deep. So come on. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. So proud our entire team is of our new colleague, Dr. John Deloney. Now he's been on the program many, many times, but we're so excited he joined the team here. And the Dr. John Deloney show is out there now. New episodes every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. And he's talking relationships, mental health challenges. He's going to give you the tools you need to cut through all of the chaos

that you deal with. And you can download the Anxiety Relief Checklist. What a great resource this is. At JohnDeloney.com. Deloney is D-E-L-O-N-Y. That's JohnDeloney.com. And you can get connected with him on social media at JohnDeloney. If you'd like to call in the program, you can email AskJohn at RamseySolutions.com. AskJohnAtRamseySolutions.com. And boy, oh boy, are they having a blast over there getting messy and then getting healthy. Which, by the way, John, you know, getting healthy in the areas that you talk about,

it's like eating a really messy meal. There's no way you're going to be able to eat that meal and really get through it without getting messy. That's right. But it's so satisfying when you get done. Right. I'm thinking about my favorite chicken wings. I need them swimming on the plate, kind of floating along. Well, if I'm going to eat those wings, my hands are going to get dirty.

Your face and your shirt's going to get dirty. Your shirt's going to get dirty, but what's at the end of that? That's right. Satisfaction. Or it's like surgery, right? You wake up from surgery, and you just see the bandage. You see the perfect stitches. You don't see all the cutting and the blood and all the stuff that was going on during the surgery.

You've got to get messy to get healthy. You've got to get through it. That's right. You've got to get messy to really enjoy a good meal. There you go. That's exactly right. I know when I'm going to eat a sloppy meal, but it's part of the deal. That's part of the deal.

And it's worth it, right? And that's what I love about your show. It's absolutely worth it. You're having a blast over there. So, hey, jump in. What a wonderful, wonderful addition to the Ramsey Network, the Dr. John Deloney Show is. And, hey, we're going to do some of that.

We've got the Ken Coleman Show, the Dave Ramsey Show, the Dr. John Deloney Show all colliding today. And that's fun. So here we go. Back to the phones. Nicholas is up next in Wichita, Kansas. Nicholas, how can we help? Hi.

I've got $60,000 in savings and I'm trying to figure out what I should be doing with it. Wow. So do you have any debt at all? No, I do not. Okay. So what baby step would you be on? I'm not sure. Okay. So you have no debt, and so baby step three would be three to six months of savings in the bank. And so what would be three to six months of your monthly income? I live on next to nothing, so probably $5,000 or $6,000. What? How much do you actually make? What's your take-home, an annual take-home? $44,000.

$44,000. Okay. And you have no rent, food, electricity, all that stuff you do for $1,000? Right now I rent from my brother. Okay. He gives me $200 a month for everything. Okay. All right.

Well, I still want you to. I'd like you to take. So we're going to break this down for you, the $60,000 in just a moment. Are you investing 15, baby step four that Dave Ramsey teaches is to invest 15% of your income into retirement savings. Are you doing that? Yes. that? Yes, I'm putting $6,000 a year in a Roth IRA and then 10% a year into my works 401k. Okay, excellent. What's your long-term housing plan? You're not always going to be able to have an awesome brother who gives you $200 a month rent. Yeah. Well, I was saving for house.

That's what the $60,000 000 was but then i realized in the next five to six years i'm probably not going to be buying okay so probably rent because i may end up moving eventually if i get a good career opportunity okay um well i would keep saving number one and and i think what i what i would would do is stay on this track of saving because at some point you are going to want to buy a house. And the more you put down, the better you're going to be. And we'd love to see you potentially get to a place where you pay cash for that first house the way you're going about it. Five to six more years of that kind of intense saving. That's a wonderful thing. So, you know, at this point, you know, unless you're going to invest some of this with some

really great, you know, with Dave's investment strategy, you know, the growth mutual funds and make sure that you're really putting a little extra into some investing, I think that might be a good move. But just some of that. But I would keep saving it until you're ready to lock down and put down roots. Are you single, married? What's your status? I'm single right now.

And how old are you? 21. Good heavens. Nicholas, you're off to the races. You've won life already, brother. I would, you know, what do you spend on an average month? We know it's $200 for rent. I'm curious what else you're spending money on.

Maybe another $200 for food. Then maybe $50 on just other random things. Yeah. Why are you waiting five years before you move? Well, I'm finishing up my degree, and then my plan is to work for a robotics company and possibly moving around installing at other businesses, seeing where I would like to work. Here's what I want you to do.

I'm going to add one little nuance to what we said. Nothing changes, but I want you to go to DaveRamsey.com as soon as we finish this phone call, and I want you to look up our SmartVestor Pros in your area. SmartVestor Pros, what you're looking for. And they are folks that we've vetted very carefully. They teach Dave Ramsey's investment strategy. And I want you to interview three, four, or five of them. Feel which one has the best feel for you that you feel like I'm going to work well with.

And I would come up with a plan for some of that 60 000 i'd juice your investments a little bit because you you're in really good shape i would increase that emergency fund a little bit i'd want it to truly be three months uh at a minimum and and get that number up i mean he's playing that off of a hermit type situation i want you to get an average cost of rent in Wichita and save that. You never know when your brother's going to say, man, I've got to make some more money. That's right. Or when he says, all right, man, you've had a year. Yeah.

I've got to rent this at least half of what market value is. Get a realistic number. Yeah. Right? And make sure that's liquid so you can get in touch with it. And so sit down with a smart investor pro and let's get beyond your 401k. Right. Is my point. And let's uh because he's 21 right let's let's invest that sit with a smart investor pro and let's take some of that 60 and let's invest that now that is really going to help you you're going to be a millionaire by the time you're 30 so don't just sit on all 60

of that let's get a good number there i trust our smart investor pros on that number uh but then i would spend the rest of your you know that savings then save it up for that first house and you're going to be in great shape good on you by the way what a wonder what a wonderful situation for a 21 year old to be when i was 21 i think i had 11 dollars yeah right yeah i thought i was rich all right yeah you know and i at 21 every dime i had i was i was having some fun with it oh gosh this guy's this guy's focused he's in school he's eating or he's at home right you know what i mean and so this is a great situation to look at the long term five or six years is where he's at now on buying a house so i really love him investing in some of that normally i would suggest yeah if

you're going to sit on that much money for five to six years, you're going to roll that into more long-term investments. I don't think he's going to be there for five years. No. There's no chance. Every 21-year-old's got a killer plan and a great rent, right? And then suddenly they meet somebody. Suddenly they get this job opportunity. Suddenly, suddenly.

And so I want a 21-year-old with that kind of money to remain relatively liquid because things are going to change. That's right. But invest some of that. Absolutely. I think some of that 60, I'd be fine with 20. I'm picking a round number and invest that. Yep.

Really let that begin to grow. Yeah. And he's got plenty of money for the girl and other things. And trust the Smart Investor Pro because they're going to help that mind get a long-term strategy. Yeah, boy, oh, boy, 21 years of age. You are going to be an everyday millionaire, and that's what we like. I know Chris Hogan loves that. So good stuff there.

Thank you so much for the call, Nicholas. All right. Don't move. More of your phone calls. The lines are lighting up. 888-825-5225. This is The Dave Ram lighting up. 888-825-5225. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Ramsey Personality and host of the Ken Coleman Show on the Ramsey Network.

Ken Coleman. And I'm joined by my colleague, Ramsey Personality, Dr. John Deloney, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Network. And we're taking your calls. We're going to talk about every aspect of life that you want to talk about. We'll talk about your relationships. We'll talk about your mental, emotional health. We'll talk about your career, your job, progress you're making in your financial life, money issues.

It's all on the table. 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Let's go to Miami, Florida. Seanette is there. Seanette, how can we help? Hi, how are you? We're having a blast.

What's up? I'm okay. My issue that's having me up at night right now is that I qualify by FHA to buy a house, but I don't feel comfortable buying the house, and I'm scared to tell the agent that I don't want to get the house because it's going to make me look like I'm not reliable or trustworthy, but I don't think I'm getting the house for the right idea. I think I'm getting it because everybody says get a house, but I don't think financially and credit-wise I should be getting a house.

And so are you calling us to verify your feelings? Yes. Well, how much debt do you have? I'm going to say like $30,000. At least the most it should be 35,000. Yeah, well, the answer is no. I knew what the answer was, but I wanted to just walk you through what you kind of told us, which is you have debt, you're not in a financial position to do so, and yet you're getting pressure.

And our culture does this, Seanette, and this is going to take a lot of courage, which I think you've already demonstrated by calling us and saying, hey, I'm feeling pressure calling us and saying, hey, I'm feeling pressure from friends and family. Yeah, tell them no thanks. Say, you know what? I'm not ready. And if they start putting pressure on you and making you feel like maybe you're flaking,

trust me, you're not flaking. You're acting like a rock. And right now, all of your focus is on getting out of debt and getting your emergency fund in place and being able to put 15% of your focus is on getting out of debt and getting your emergency fund in place and being able to put 15% of your income away. And once you get that emergency fund, you can start saving for the house. That's baby step 3B, okay? But the reality is right now, no, you should not do it. Your instincts are right.

Absolutely, 100%. Hey, Seanette? Yeah? Good for you. All right, thank you so much? Good for you. All right. Thank you so much. Good for you. Yeah, thank you for calling.

By the way, this is okay to do. You know? What's that? She knew the answer, but she's feeling some external pressure from people that matter to her. Right. Right? And so she's going, my brain is saying one thing, but then with other people influencing me and saying things, my heart's starting to tell me something else, and've got this tennis match going on let me just call somebody

and talk to somebody we just happen to be the somebodies love it uh but she was already right on and it's okay but there is pressure that's there's a lot of pressure to be normal there's a lot of pressure to make the same mistakes i made or do it like i did it man good for you sean yeah appreciate the call all right we go next to Virginia Beach, Virginia, my old stomping grounds. Ricky is there. Ricky, how can we help? Hey, first of all, it's an honor to speak with you guys. I just wanted to give you a quick background.

I'm a 2016 graduate in multimedia journalism, and I was laid off in 2018, and ever since I've been out of that career, unfortunately. And my question is, how can I acquire the necessary experience and skills in education for a career change and advancing in that career without going further into debt? Well, it's not as complex as it sounds to you. So let's talk about the field you want to go into. What is that field? So the three things I've thought about would be public relations, given my background,

marketing, given my background, and also I currently work for a bank and I've been interested in getting into finance. So PR, marketing, and finance. And if I told you that you could have guaranteed success in all three of those, that I'm just going to place you in there next week, and you get to go and run free, and you're absolutely going to be successful, but you didn't have to commit the next 30 years of your life to it. It was just this big, fun, successful adventure. But you only could choose one of those.

Which one would you choose? Public relations. Why? I love media. I love creating content. I love interacting with people. It's why I got into journalism in the first place, and I really loved it while I was in it.

And I think my skills would carry over to that extremely well. And I come from a sports background. I was a sports writer. And I absolutely love the sports media field. And I think that I could do that in the public relations side. Yeah. Okay. The reason I put that choice to you that way is because it always reveals itself. And what's interesting is, is when you listed them out for me here in my moleskin, John, you see it. The first one he said was PR. The reason is that's the top of his heart, not just his mind. And so that's why it's always listed first. So I think you've got to listen to that because as I hear you talk about it, Ricky, your entire countenance

changed from the start of the phone call when you're unsure to you start talking about that and the words just came freely and you felt the juice. Did you feel that? Yeah, absolutely. Now here, let me answer your question. How do I get qualified to then move into a new field PR without going into debt? And here's how you do it. Here are the questions. All right. So you're very clear. I have seven stages to that lead to meaningful work. Okay. The first stage is get clear. You're clear. The second stage is get qualified. There's three, there's, there's some questions you've got to answer here. I'm going to give you four things you've got to answer.

This is how you do it without going into debt. Number one, what do you need to learn? What is the required? It may not even be a degree, but what are some certifications? Is there anything that you need to learn to get qualified? That's the education question. Second question is, what do I need to do? Is there some basic experience that you need

to be able to move up? So it's an entry-level experience. So that's the experience question. What do I need to do? The third question is, what is that going to cost me? If I'm going to have to actually learn something, how much is that going to cost me? That's the economic question. And the fourth question is, based on my financial reality where I am, how long is that going to take me? Because you're already in debt. You kind of gave me that sign. Okay. And so that's the expectation question. Those are the four questions that you have to answer. Ricky, when you answer those questions, guess what is revealed? A plan. I know I've got to learn this. I know I've got to do this. It's going to cost me this much. And based on my financial reality, it's going to take me this long. Now you can see it. And the answer is you are going to take as long as it takes to do this as it relates to your ability to cash flow your

way through it. You are not going to go into debt. So you're going to have to sacrifice or you're going to have to work a second job. You're going to have to do whatever it takes to be able to cash flow your way through it, and you can get there without going into debt. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yes, sir. Do those questions make sense to you? Yes.

And you can answer those, can't you, Ricky? I believe so. No. John, tell him how he's supposed to answer that. The answer is yes. Haven't you watched Star Wars? Yoda, let us all know there is no trying. Just do it. You know the answer. Yeah. Yeah. You got this, Ricky. Go after it. And I think you're going to find that it's much easier than you think. You

know, John, when he first led into that question and my first response was, it's not as complex as it seems. You know what I just did anecdotally, but what is the psychology there that makes that transition so scary to people? We're terrified of change. He's still struggling with being told, we don't want you to work here anymore. And so when you have past failure

weighing down a future option, man, it just sets off all your alarms and say, you're going to fail again. Let's just stay safe. You're going to get hurt again. You're going to be told you're not enough again. Let's just stay safe. Let's stay stagnant.

Who cares if we're not going to get to where we want to? Who cares if we're not going to make enough money? Who cares? Fill in the blank. I'm not going to get hurt again on the front end. And so we just sit. That's absolutely right. And it just gets clouded.

It gets messy. It gets frustrating. And so we just sit. Change, folks. John nailed it. Change is really scary. So John and I are both dads. And our kids are now past this stage. But there was a time where all my kids at some point told me that there was a noise under the bed or in the closet, and it could have been a bad guy or a monster. And I knew that there was no bad guy or monster under the bed or in the closet. But my kids were terrified by that. And only until I walk in the room, flip the light on, go look in the closet, get down underneath the bed and come back out alive or up alive,

do the kids go. And so what we walked Ricky through there is the fear of the unknown. So what's the answer? Go get the knowns. And once we know what the path is and could look like, it's not so scary. Hey, I want to thank our producer, James Childs. I want to thank

our associate producer, Kelly Daniel. I want to thank my colleague, Dr. John Deloney, for hanging out. But most importantly, we want to thank you, America. This is your show.

This is The Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Once again, you made The Dave Ramsey Show one of the top four most popular podcasts last year. To get your daily dose of motivation and inspiration from the Ramsey Network, subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcasts.