The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Put Your Money on Auto-Pilot! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: December 8, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where dad is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. Chris Hogan, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today here on the air. We invite your calls toll-free and nationwide at 888-825-5225. Tejan is with us in Detroit to start off this hour. Hey, Tejan, what's up? Hello, Dave. Thank you for having me on. I've

been listening to you for a while, and you've always inspired me with my finances. I'm currently debt-free. I'm looking to get in. Well, I am engaged. Congratulations. Wonderful girl. Thank you. She was pursuing a degree as well. I finished mine debt-free, but she's pursuing a bachelor's in biology. She currently has about $30,000 in student loan debt, and she's one year away from graduating. But this next year would put us about 20 to 30K more in debt. And I was hoping to get your advice about it. I know a lot of what you say, and I just really wanted to kind of get it even more from you. She wants to be a stay-at-home mom, and it looks like the only time we'd be doing career she'd be working is starting out

to pay this off and then perhaps after we have kids and they start moving out or getting older okay and uh so you're going to be um getting married when we're looking at getting married probably about a year okay and so she will be one semester from graduation by then right uh she would be done we were waiting for her to finish she'd be ending uh december of 2021 okay continued and then we're looking at getting married in january so this is how this is all happening before you get married? Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Are you working?

What do you make? I make currently about $19,000. I work part-time for the job I was doing for college with United Parcel Service, and I'm currently working to get my full-time job so I can start bringing in more before we get married. Yeah, that'd be cool. Is she working? She is not.

Why? I am not entirely sure. I know that previously she had gone on campus at Biola University, which is her college in California. But then she went back home because of COVID and has just been doing the classes through there. And, I mean, I know she picked up a job like house sitting, but other than that, she hasn't pursued anything yet. Okay. Well, Chris, I've been doing the show 30 years,

and I've never told someone to go into debt. I don't think that's probably going to change with this call. Not at all. So how are we going to help this young lady? Well, I mean, Tegan, first and foremost, what she's got to do is really, I think, have a conversation on the life goals and the plan, you know, because— Spend $50,000 to get a master's degree to be a stay-at-home mom. But to want to stay at home you know um and so the mindset i think is around timing and some goal setting here uh because it sounds like to me it's going to be 50 to 60 more thousand of dollars in debt that

you're going to inherit once you say i do so i think this is probably a deeper conversation and i'm one of those people i look for red flags because they typically mean something um and i want to have a conversation and that mindset and time frame of when you're planning to have kids. Is that three to four years down the road? Or, you know, I think this understanding, but I'm not going to pile more debt on top of this just to finish a degree that you didn't plan to use. So I don't think she cares what I think, to be honest with you. So I think this conversation may be useless. But you asked, and so I'll give you the courtesy of an answer.

If this were my daughter and or son-in-law to be, I would tell her to stop her education temporarily, that she can go back a year from now and finish. If she's doing it all online anyway, she can go back two years from now and finish. She won't lose the momentum that she's got. She won't lose the thing and just get a job and start working and pay off as much of the student loan debt as she can. And then if she is going to go back and finish, the two of you together as a married couple will pay cash for that

because this degree is apparently a luxury item. There's no intention of using it for a career long term. That's what you told me. And that makes the education useless. It really does. I mean, other than a well-educated stay-at-home mom, which is a nice thing, but I'm saying it's not in terms of she's obviously not going to use it to earn money over several decades with.

And so that makes it a luxury item. It means I'm taking this knowledge, I'm taking these classes because I would like to have the accomplishment of the degree. I'd like to have the knowledge in my brain, but I intend to not make piles of money over decades with it. And that's okay. It's a luxury item. I buy some luxury items from time to time. And I buy some books and read some information that absolutely has nothing to do with my career and does not make me any more money. It just makes me a little smarter and a little more fine-tuned.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Nope. That's a good luxury item to do. But you did it with cash. Yes, I am. Yes. So I would tell her to put her education on hold until it aligns with, A, paying cash, and, B, your household situation.

Instead of putting the new marriage double in debt what it is for a degree she has no intention of using. That's really a pretty bad path. I mean, that's pretty lame, Tegan, really. Again, I don't think she's going to do that because I said do it. But that's what I would do if I were in her shoes, your shoes, or if you were my kids and came to me for advice. This is what I would tell you. But I hope it all works out for you, brother. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Stephanie is on Instagram. Does a

recession or economic crisis affect the contributions or growth in a Roth IRA? How can we be safe in a bad economy? Wow. Well, I mean, Dave, you and I both know the stock market is a living, breathing thing. If someone hiccups, it's going to impact it. And we all know all of these things are ebbing and flowing. And so, you know, the bottom line is, is it's going to be that roller coaster ride. Is the market going to be affected? Absolutely. But it's not going to affect my game plan and my long-term strategy. I know I've got to grow money because of inflation. So I'm going to continue to invest and I'm going to be clear because I know my path. So Stephanie, it should not affect your contributions.

You should continually invest when times are bad and when times are good. Just invest your whole life. The number one correlating factor between people that build wealth is not the rates of return that they get. It's that they steadily invest. All the data tells us this. All the research tells us this. The second part is the growth. Does it grow in a Roth IRA?

Well, if you're in good growth stock mutual funds, they're going to follow in general what the stock market has done. And so if it's a year that the market's down, they might be down. If the year the market's up, by the way, that's this year, the market is up in 2020 considerably, especially considering the dumpster fire of a year we've had. So how can we be safe in a bad economy? You don't, you know, your investing is not a snapshot. It's a filmstrip. It's ongoing.

You continually invest. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. if current times have shown us anything it's that the least expected events can and will happen and we have to deal with it that's why everyone who has a family counting on them needs term life insurance. For over 20 years, the only company I've recommended is Zander Insurance. Not only because they search all of the top term life plans to find you the best rates, but over the years, they have constantly changed and updated their systems to make the whole process simpler and easier to get the protection needed. You can now apply with a completely touchless experience

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Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can Chris Ogun and I help you? I just wanted to say I'm a financial peace baby. I grew up watching my parents do financial peace, and now I'm finally practicing it as an adult.

Cool. Me and my husband are on Baby Step 3, and my question about this Baby Step is, should it include saving for food as well or just monthly bills? What does it take you to exist a month if you had no income coming in? That's your expenses. Okay. And that would be food, shelter, clothing, transportation, utilities, whatever other bills that you need to maintain.

If you have monthly payments going to insurance, it's basically your monthly budget minus what you're saving. And so it's usually not, by the time you're at your stage, it's usually not equal to your income, but it should be close. Right. Yeah, and Kristen, remember, as you're doing that, you want to put that over into a money market account because you want to keep it liquid.

And I want to remind you of this. One of the things people forget is if you ever end up reaching in and using that emergency fund, job number one is to replace it. So you want to make sure that you always keep that three to six months there. And if you do that, you're going to keep yourself protected. Yeah, so if you make $60,000 a year, that's $5,000 a month. I mean, so if you do $4,000 a month as an example, and you did three months of that, that'd be $12,000. You did six months of that, that'd be $24,000. So between $12,000 and $24,000, so a $20,000 emergency fund is probably a pretty good one in that case.

That's just an example. The point being, it's not really going to replace a long-term loss of income. So you need long-term disability. And it might not have anything to do with you losing your job. It could be the transmission goes out. It could be your grandmother dies and no one has the money to bury her but you. It could be whatever. There's all kinds of life emergencies that are not career-oriented. This just gives us a rule of thumb to have an umbrella because it rains sometimes and uh in a year like we've just had it storms sometimes yes yeah all right olinka is with us and uh whoops push the wrong button on that let's try it again okay ole inca i think i'm saying that

right in akron hi oleka. How are you? Good afternoon. Still pushing the wrong dadgum button. Where in the world? All right, I'm going to try it one more time. There he is. Oh, I was right? Okay. Is that you?

Are we there? Yes. Good afternoon, Mr. Ramsey, Mr. Hogan. How are you guys? Great, man. How can we help? Good. I first want to thank you guys for taking my call.

Sure. I was first introduced to you guys through a curriculum, my financial literacy class back in my senior year in high school, back on Richard, Minnesota. And I also took a personal management merit badge when I was taking my Eagle Scout rank back in Boy Scouts. And I recently began during this COVID-19 pandemic. And I've had a lot of free time to avidly learn so much

about different financial topics. I'm actually looking into your Financial Peace University program. You guys are giving me inspiration, motivation, and accountability, and I very much thank you so much for what you do for students like me. Well, thank you. How can we help you today, sir? Yeah, for sure. I got two quick things. My first thing is, in terms of my current position, I'm a 21-year-old junior at the University of Akron studying biomedical engineering, bio-mechanics track, ready for a BME co-op in the summer of 2021. I'm on baby step two with Gonzalo Intensity, living on beans and $4,400 principal in my Vanguard Roth IRA tax advantage account. I was wondering if I should sell my positions on Robinhood and take the small capital gains taxed as well as take out my principal amount from the Vanguard Roth IRA so I'm not penalized doing both ultimately to pay off some of my debt by a substantial chunk man you've done a lot of thinking on all this and a lot of work too so how are you paying for school dude uh i am currently uh so i'm a ra a resident assistant at the university

of akron but i'm from minnesota um so my ra has covered half of my tuition and i'm cash flowing the rest i currently work at chipotle and they do a tuition reimbursement program, and as well as all the money I'm making, I am paying off my debt in that way. And you're scheduled to graduate 21? 2023, because my program is a program with co-ops, so it's totally a five-year program. Okay, cool. And you're studying, you said chemistry? Biomedical engineering. Biomedical engineering. Okay, cool. And you're studying, you said chemistry? Biomedical engineering.

Biomedical engineering. Okay, cool. Yes, sir. Great degree field. Good for you. Well, you're obviously a very smart guy, without a doubt. Yes. And so, you know, I wouldn't have you investing at this stage.

I think the best investment we could make would be into you and guaranteeing that you graduate completely debt-free between hard work and that saved money. And, you know, I'm just going to pile up cash until you graduate. And I'm not really worried about investing. I'm not even worried about getting out of debt. Just pay your minimum payments and let's see how high we can pile the cash up and get you completely through school without debt free. That's the best investment you can make right now. You know, with your brain, you're a better investment than anything Robinhood's got. Yeah. Oh, without a doubt.

And young man, listen, you coming out and having this framework of thinking about this money stuff and then preventing the normal traps, Alinka, that people make as soon as they graduate. And that's wanting to get a new car, trying to hurry up and buy a house. So I want you to slow down. You've been very intentional and methodical with what you're doing. Finish up, like Dave said, with school paid for, cash flowing it, and then get out, keep lifestyle in check, but have a game plan for yourself. And I'm going to tell you, you're going to start off making a really good dollar amount.

You just need a really good plan. So I'm going to encourage you, you've been plugged into this information, continue to be. Get over into Ramsey Plus and follow this process, and you're going to be an everyday millionaire in the next 15 to 20 years. The great news is you've got a great brain. The downside is that you have a great brain, and you're going to overthink this, and you almost already are. Don't overthink it.

Just pile up cash and graduate debt-free. Work your butt off, pile up cash, and graduate debt-free without adding any additional debt. That's right. And then if you have $50,000 when you graduate in a big pile, just write a check and pay off all your debt then. But I wouldn't worry about getting out of debt. I want you out of school with no additional debt. And you're running this thing on a string because you're working your butt off, too.

You've got great work ethic. Pretty incredible. It is. Folks, if you're like most of America, your car hasn't seen much of the road this year because many of you have been following stay-at-home orders. I don't know why, but you did. And that means less risk for your insurance company, which means you might pay a lower premium this month. Actually, I'm glad some of you stayed home. Some car insurance companies have already started giving

credits for about 15% of your premium. Obviously, if you're confident you're paying the lowest price, then go ahead and take the credit. But if you're not confident, don't settle for $70 refund when you could be saving way more by shopping your rates. To see if you can save more, connect with an endorsed local provider or an ELP. It's something you can do from your couch, and it's free to have an agent shop for you. Most people who work with an ELP save around $700, and after the pandemic, of course, every penny counts. Never again should you put your insurance on autopilot and end up overpaying. Have someone shop it for you.

Saves you time and money. These ELPs are independent insurance brokers, which means they shop several different companies and get you the best deal. Text the word AUTO to 33789. AUTO to 33789. $ Auto to 33-789. $700 is a pretty good savings. Oh, it's a massive savings. And, Dave, I'm going to tell you the thing that I have known, even before I joined your team,

is that when you start to work with these endorsed local providers or SmartVestor Pros, you're dealing with people that have the heart of a teacher, which means they generally have a personality, they have knowledge, and they talk with you, not at you. And that's a big deal because so many people don't know what customer service is nowadays. They'll leave you on hold. They won't call you back. I'm going to tell you, our ELPs don't do that.

Well, and, you know, in every case, you're learning as you go, which is, that's so important. Do not just put anything on autopilot with the money and say, I got a man watching over my money. That's a good way to lose it because that man might be Bernie Madoff. I mean, you got to have your finger on the pulse of what's happening. This is your money. And in many cases, you have more money than the guy that's managing it for you does. Yep. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. guitar solo Chris Hogan Ramsey, personality, is my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Alex is in Portland, Oregon. Hey, Alex, what's up? Hey, Dave, thanks so much for taking my call. Sure, how can I help? Well, my wife is 29. I'm 30, and we are on baby steps four, five, and six. We're just getting really motivated to pay our house off.

Good. We owe about $250,000 left on it, and we kind of have two different scenarios that we're running through or two different strategies we're running through our brains as to how to pay the house off. So in one scenario, we would pay the house off in about three years. And that's with us still investing 15% into our retirement account. Wow. What's your household income? It's about just under 200,000. Yeah, you're killing it. Way to go, man. Thanks. So in the other scenario, we would pause our retirement contributions, and if we did so, according to the payoff early calculator that we've been checking out on your website, we'd be able to pay our house off in about two and a half years, saving us six months.

The kind of catch that I'm having in my brain is that I only have $35,000 saved for retirement between my wife and myself. And so I wonder if pausing is risky, if I'm kind of wrecking my future gains by taking that 15% pause and putting that towards the house. So just wanted to hear what you thought. Well, since you know the baby steps, you know what we teach, right? Yeah. So what do we teach? Yeah. So you teach that four, five, and six happen at the same time,

so you do the 15% into your retirement at the same time you're paying off the house. I guess I've heard you talk to other callers who have one person called in and they were trying to pay their house off in like four years, and you said if it's below four years, you could consider pausing retirement. So anyways, I just wanted to get more maybe specificity around that. Yeah. It's a six-month swing, and what you lose for that is having been steadily investing. So I wouldn't stop it. Would you, Chris? No, Alex. Listen, buddy, you guys are on a remarkable path. You've really done so good. I mean, seriously, at 30 and 29, number one, to even know about this, but to have applied it. And the fact, I mean, think about this, and 29, number one, to even know about this, but to have applied it.

And the fact, I mean, think about this, my friend. By the time that you are 33, you're going to own your house, right? And so I want you to stay on that path of that 15%. Keep flexing that muscle. Here's what I believe, Alex. You and your wife are so tuned in and dialed in. I think you're going to pay it off before three years. I honestly do. I think you guys can keep investing that 15%, keep growing that money and experiencing compound growth, but still making progress, my friend. Yeah, I think Chris is right.

You'll probably end up doing both, putting in the 15% and making it in two and a half years. For a six-month swing, it's not worth it to unplug and miss out on starting to grow your investing, and you really should stick with that. You really should do that. But it's a great question because think about the question you just asked, Alex. I'm 30 years old, and I'm either going to pay my house off in two and a half years or three years.

Three years. Okay. Unicorn. That's a unicorn right years. Three years. Yeah, okay. Unicorn. That's a unicorn right there. I just want to hug it. That's awesome. Would you please run for Congress? Muhammad is in Los Angeles.

Hey, Muhammad, how are you? Hey, Dave and Chris, how are you guys doing? Great, man. What's up? My basic question is, how do i not spoil my kids um i'm noticing now that uh i've been out of debt for 10 years and i'm able to do some things that i wasn't able to do as a kid my kids are now starting to expect some of those things like vacations and restaurants and those sorts of things so i want to know uh you when you raising your kids, how did you not spoil them so that they expect all the things that you could afford to give them?

It would be interesting to hear Chris's perspective. He watched me do it for 15 years. Yeah. You know what? The whole issue of entitlement is not an option. I can remember when I first started, Daniel, when he was small, working and painting in our building, like painting and cleaning in the stairwell. Because he sucked at it, and we figured in the stairwell it wouldn't be too bad. Okay, Dave, you didn't have to throw him under the bus like that.

But here's the thing. That work ethic, I think it was one of those things for Dave watching him, letting them understand that he and Sharon had worked hard, and there were some things that the kids got to do because of that, but for them not to ever get confused. And I'm actually doing that same thing with my teenage boys and helping them not get confused. And when they do, we talk about it. And I think for you, it's a matter of there are some things that you want to make sure that you're talking about with your kids so they don't get it confused. And I remember Dave made the joke once of Daniel said to his dad, he goes, Dad, we're doing pretty good. And Dave just laughed at him and said, we?

He goes, no, no, your mother and I are doing well. You don't have anything. And so keeping them rooted like that and calling it out, I think, really will help those kids. Yeah. So two things or three things like that. Number one is what Chris said. They need to work. One of the skills parents need to teach their children, you know, send them to the salt mines.

It's not ridiculous, but they need to work. There's great dignity in accomplishing tasks. And whether they were self-selected or selected by your dad or your mom, either one, there's great dignity in accomplishing tasks. And whether they were self-selected or selected by your dad or your mom, either one, there's great dignity in work. And it's one of the problems with the pandemic is people have had their dignity stolen because they had their jobs stolen by economic shutdown. And they were told they were not essential. And that's all tied back into the psychology of this and and so there's great dignity and work the second thing we did was uh we explained to our kids from the time they could begin to grasp it even at a most rudimentary level that we don't own anything from a spiritual

perspective we are managing it for god because we're christians and And so we are managing this for God. Now, God says we can enjoy some money, but he also says we're supposed to be generous with it, and we're also supposed to think long-term with it. In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil. Wise people save. God loves a cheerful giver. His instruction book on how to live our lives tells us how to handle his money, and so we're outlandishly, outrageously generous, and they need to see that and be that. And it's not really optional. This is one of the skills I'm giving you, is you're going to learn to work, you're going to learn to save, you're going to learn to give, and you're going to learn to enjoy

money. But you're not going to do any one of those you're going to do all of them and uh and because this is the instruction from our father our heavenly father and this is the way we do it as for me in my house and so this is how we explained it the inmates at our house didn't run the asylum we did uh you don't get a vote until you leave and then you get a vote over your house until then you can have input and we'd'd love to hear your feelings and all that sometimes. But the rest of the time, we're just in charge, and we love you, and you're going to brush your teeth, and you're going to go to school, and you're going to comb your hair, and you're going to wear a belt.

And, you know, these basic life skills that we do, right? No, I agree. I completely agree. And this keeps them from being entitled because entitled means they think the axis of the world runs through the top of their head and children are awesome grandchildren even better if i'd have been how known how great grandchildren are going to be i'd have been nicer to their parents but um grandchildren are amazing but even our grandchildren they know papa dave does not think, while I love them, I would die for them, I would take a bullet for them. The axis of the world does not run through the top of their head.

They're four years old, and they're illogical, and they're chaotic, and they're nuts. And so they don't get to make the rules. They don't get to decide. So when the child gets to make rules and they don't have the emotional ability to do that that's when they start to feel entitled yes well you also made the statement once that we all have a 16 year old and a 40 year old in us right and and it's in that moment of being mature enough to tell a want that it needs to wait yeah we have to dial into that and i said that's real we all have taller teenagers they've got a three-year-old inside of them and a 30-year-old okay when they're teenagers and so which one am i talking to because

they got multiple personalities yes and so it's sybil right and so it's like am i talking to the mature one or am i talking to the little four-year-old if i'm talking a little three-year-old i'm just going to tell you what to do if i'm talking to the 30-year-old i'll reason with yes and give you critical thinking skills to make a good decision next time but if you're going to act like you're freaking three i don't care the size of your body. I'm going to treat you like you're three. So, and that, you know, it's just, again, it comes down to I love you more than life itself,

but you don't make the decisions. You're not entitled. And we remind you of that on a pretty regular basis, and then they don't become entitled. They don't look up on third base and think they hit a triple. That's right. This is the Dave Ramsey Personalities, my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

We are doing our annual giving show here in a couple of weeks right before Christmas. And on the giving show, we take calls from people who have both received gifts and given gifts. And it is all about generosity because Christmas is all about generosity. And it is one of the most popular things we do all year. If you have a great giving story where you were in the blessed position to be the giver or the receiver, either one, and you could tell this great story to inspire others to acts of generosity, email Kelly at DaveOnAir at DaveRamsey.com. DaveOnAir at DaveRamsey.com. DaveOnAir at DaveRamsey.com.

And we want to hear your story. You can also do it at DaveOnAir at RamseySolutions.com, I think. And so check with both, and either one will get you there, and Kelly will get a hold of you, and we'll make you a part of the show that day. We certainly don't tell you what to say. We don't coach you up or something like that. But we need to line up the callers so we have a solid show full of giving and receiving stories

that inspire others to generosity. Ben is with us. Ben is in Jersey Shore, New Jersey. Hi, Ben, how are you? I'm doing great, Dave and Chris. How are you both? Better than we deserve, brother. How can we help? I first heard about you almost a year ago a year and a half out of college had seventy thousand dollars in student loan debt heard you say rice and beans i said no way i took a vacation and then i heard about chris talking about everyday millionaires i said no such thing but i'm back on track and i'm just pumped to talk to you folks. All right. How can we help today? Welcome home.

So I am a federal employee and wanted to ask you about Thrift Saving Plans. Their funds are not exactly apples to apples to what you preach with the four portions. So I wanted to hear if Dave Ramsey had a TSP, how would he break up his investments? Chris, no. Well, I mean, as you begin to look at this, you know, first thing you want to realize is that you have to be in control of your money. So as you're looking at this TSP, although it's not that typical breakdown, you've got funds that you definitely want to be more part of. And, Dave, if I've heard you correctly, you're wanting people to be more invested heavily or avoid the C fund. No, be in the C. Be in the C. The C fund is the common

stock fund. It's like a S&P 500. It's the number one performer of all the different categories in the TSP. And it's basically an S&P 500 is how it operates. And so it's averaged between 10% and 12% right in there since it started. And I would put 80% in that. The S is the small company plan or the small company index, and that's much like an aggressive growth stock mutual fund. It falls in that category. I would put about 10% in that, and I'd put about 10% in the international fund, the foreign fund. It's called the F plan. So the S, the F, and the C, but primarily C

if you're there. Now, you know, though, Ben, that we don't start investing until you're out of debt, right? Oh, Dave, Dave, I heard about about you i emptied the savings account i went down tents and all of the loans sally may got kicked to the curb you got rid of 70 000 70 000 so dude you're a stud before i started listening to you you know i thought you went on vacation but you got out of debt okay you know i was on an aggressive payment plan about seven years uh about 900 bucks a month and i was paying more than anyone else i knew so i thought i was doing great and then i was saving money um and when the time came i had plenty of account or a couple of that okay so you're doing this in order then you've got the right baby steps because you're

debt free got the emergency fund and now it's time to start your baby step four. Well done, man. Good job. Mark's in Boston. Hey, Mark, what's up? How's it going? I'm a teenager, and I just wanted to know if I should go into college or military because a lot of things with debt with college, and I don't know what I should do.

Huh. Well, okay. So if you did go to college, what do you want to do when you get done if you go to college? I would mostly want to be an engineer. Okay. All right. And so what makes you interested in the military? Is it just the cost savings, or are you interested in serving the country?

Pretty much both. I always, as a kid, I wanted to do the military, and then now I see the benefits and also the benefits of college and didn't know which one would be the best for me in the future. Gotcha. Well, I'm one of those people, Mark, as I look at it, I want to take a process and a plan that gets me closer to my goal. And you mentioned the cost of college. So I don't know what kind of grades you have, but you got scholarships and grants as an opportunity to get to college. But here's something else. You have an opportunity to not only go to the military to serve and get a great history in your work ethic and leadership skills,

but to also be able to earn money for college through the GI Bill. And so you could have an opportunity to be able to do both if that's something you're interested in. Yeah, that's one thing I did consider because, well, I didn't know if it was the debt i would take on from college would be worth the four years or six years i served in the military i would not we're not telling you to take on college we're saying the two choices on the table are college and we figure out a way to do that debt free which we can help you with that or you go into the military so the question you

the way you answer that question is you reach out and you say, okay, I'm talking to 40-year-old Mark. 40-year-old Mark. And Mark went to college and he became an engineer, or Mark entered a career in the military. Which one of those does 40-year-old Mark really cause him to like 20-year-old Mark? That's a question. Which one? I would probably want to be an engineer like I always thought I would. Okay. All right. So the military came up because of money. You're trying to figure out how to pay for college. Yeah. And you'd like the idea of service, and military is kind of a secondary passion. But your primary passion is engineering, is engineer you believe okay so let's go get an engineering degree debt-free now one way you could do that

is you could mix the two a little bit and you could join the national guard they'll pay for twenty thousand dollars up front plus they'll pay you to serve while you're in college now you got six months of boot camp involved when you do that but but the National Guard is a great way to beef up your debt-free college idea and touch that nerve that you're talking about serving without doing a full-time military career in that sense. So that's something you could consider. Now, what I would do is just start figuring out where you can go get an engineering degree that you can pay for by working and by getting scholarships but it's going to be in state it might be you go to community college for the first two years and knock out some of your basics there it is um and you know there are lots of ways to get an engineering degree and actually work 30 to 40 hours a week and get the degree and pay for it

as you go i don't know dave why parents don't think of this community college option. I don't understand. You're talking a couple hundred dollars per class and the credits will transfer to a four-year institution. The grades don't, but the credits do. So imagine going to that community college, knocking out the foreign language, all the prerequisites, and then transfer to another in-state and graduate in two years. Well, and sometimes you've got an in-state school that's the local version. It's not the, you know, you've got the University of so-and-so in X city. Right. But the other version of it in a different city. Okay.

It's like the Nashville version of the University of Tennessee or something like that. Right. And a lot of those are half. Yeah. And so there's a lot of ways to shop around, Mark, and pull this off. So hold on. We're going to give you a copy of Anthony O'Neill's book, Debt-Free Degree, which will show you how to do this.

I recommend you figure a strategy between scholarships, community college, lots of hard work, and picking an inexpensive school to become an engineer in the next four years. You might serve in the National Guard to help you achieve those goals. That will pick up maybe $20,000 up front to help you get this going and some income while you're in school as well. I wasn't aware the National Guard did that. I thought it was only through full-time service.

That's a great idea. It's a big deal, and they're one of our sponsors, as a matter of fact. So anyway, over on our Ed Solutions site. Yes. The high school curriculum they've been helping us with. So, Mark, hang on, and we'll have Kelly pick up. We'll get you a copy of the book, Debt-Free Degree. I think you're an engineer, brother.

That's what you told me, anyway. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Once again, you made The Dave Ramsey Show one of the top four most popular podcasts last year. To get your daily dose of motivation and inspiration from the Ramsey Network, subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcasts.