The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Rob One Account To Pay Another! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: June 28, 2023

Ken Coleman & George Kamel answer your questions and discuss:  How to be financially prepared for unpaid paternity leave, from the blog: How Much Does It Cost to Have a Baby? How credit card rewards may be affected by new legislation, from the blog: Are Credit Card Points Worth It? "Should I use my HSA to pay off my truck?", from the blog: What Qualifies for HSA Medical Expenses? "Why is it so back to use credit cards if you can use them responsibly?", from the blog: Do I Need a Credit Card? from The Fine Print Podcast: The True Cost of Credit Card Rewards  The best way to balance paying off student loans when you need a vehicle, Why you shouldn't take out student loans for a career just because of the salary, from the blog: Is College Worth It? Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Here's an EveryDollar deal just for our listeners: get a 14-day free trial PLUS $15 off your first year of premium. Click the link below and start budgeting today! www.everydollar.com/george Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3cEP4n6 Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Interested in advertising on The Ramsey Show? https://ter.li/s64ye3 Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

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🎵 🎵 🎵 🎵 🎵 🎵 🎵 🎵 🎵 🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods, moving and storage studio, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life,

specifically your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me this hour. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. George, take your money questions. I'll chime in, and then I'll take your work-related questions. Want to pivot? Want a promotion?

You feel stuck? What do I do? How do I make more money? Should I launch the side hustle? All those questions, I'll take those, and George chimes in on those. So we are here for you triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to christopher in the city of brotherly love that's philadelphia pennsylvania christopher how can we help hi guys thanks so much for taking

my call you bet what's up so i'm in a little bit of a dilemma uh uh, really just torn. Um, so my wife and I are expecting a baby in August and, um, it's our first and we're super excited, super nervous. We're working the baby steps. We've paused the baby steps. My wife is going to be getting six weeks off of work. My company is offering 12 weeks unpaid. Um, when the baby's due, if she comes, uh, when she's due, we're going to have about seven, 8,000 saved on top of our starter emergency fund. And, um, I was planning to take three weeks off, but the closer and closer we get to the due date, I just, I really want to take more time and just enjoy this new experience. But I'm also torn because that means I'm at a work longer.

So, um, I guess the question is, should I just stick to my three-week plan, get back to work, or would it be okay for me to dip into that extra money so that I can afford to take more weeks off? Because we are planning to dump that extra money on debt. Okay. And is she planning on taking just the six weeks and then going back to work, or is she going to take further unpaid time? What's her plan? So that is an option. Um, but right now they're offering six weeks if she has a natural birth and eight weeks if she has a C section. So it's probably going to stay within that six to eight for her. Okay. And you, are you thinking the same for you? Are you wanting to take all 12 if you can? Um, it's, it's odd. I don't want to take more than her. I feel like, I almost feel wrong for that, but I feel okay with six weeks, but I also think three weeks isn't enough. And then what's your plan beyond that? Let's say you both go back to work after six weeks.

We just get back to the baby steps and dump everything except for our $1,000 emergency fund back on debt. Okay, and is it daycare? That's where my reservation is. What would the childcare situation be? She'll be, her mom is going to be watching her for a significantly lower price than our local daycare. Got it, okay. That's kind of a big factor in all of this,

is what does the childcare situation look like? And then the second piece is financially, what can you afford to do without setting yourself back financially? So you have some debt. How much debt do you have? Currently about $75,000. It consists of student loans and car loans soon to be paid off. Okay. And then what is the household income? Gross is about $105,000110 a year. Awesome. And you'd have a few, you'd dip down on that while you were unpaid for potentially a few weeks. Yep. Okay.

I guess it's more of like a, I don't, I know that that money is supposed to be put back on debt when mom and baby are home and healthy. But I also know that if I take, if we take everything except for $1,000, an extra three weeks for me unpaid isn't realistic. Well, I wouldn't do it. Could you sell one of the cars if this is a big dream for you? Potentially, yeah. I mean, it's tough because my wife uses one of the cars for work, and it would make it really difficult for me to get to and from work. Well, what's it worth versus the loan on it?

It's worth about $7,500 and we have $3,100 left on it. Okay. So probably not worth selling to make three grand. If the numbers were different, I would say, hey, if you can make 10 grand on this car and get something cheaper and get rid of the payment, that could help. But the numbers here don't make it worth it. Right. Do you have to decide right now, or can you go, hey, I'm gone for two weeks. I'm going to come back next week?

It's pretty flexible. It's not like I have to give them a really long notice. My district manager is all for me taking extra time, and I can let him know pretty last minute if I wanted to. Okay. Yeah, I might play it by ear. I'm going to commit to the two or three weeks, and beyond that, say I'm probably coming back to work, but we're going to have to play it by ear and see how mom and baby are doing and how I'm feeling about this

and where we're at financially and if we can take this hit. Yeah, I'm going to take a much more, I don't know what the adjective is here. I wouldn't go back financially at all for this. Not one penny. I wouldn't. Now, if mama and baby aren't healthy and there's a whole different situation, but if everything's okay, dude, get back to work after three weeks. I mean, three weeks is nice. I mean, baby doesn't even remember.

You're fine. I would not suffer going backwards at all financially for this. Three weeks is enough for the dad in this situation. That's a very nice benefit. That's just me, but I got three kids. So, you know, I mean, there's a point in time where they don't even want to talk to you. So at this point, I wouldn't go wouldn't go backwards financially me personally i would not do that i don't think it's going to be worth it i really don't okay but i i know i'm a little bit

more old school george is a little bit more and you know in touch with whatever with it but also you know if it was unpaid that's a different situation so you know i'm i'm in a very similar situation as you christopher where i'm going to be having a baby first in August. So we're going to be right alongside each other having a good time. And I plan on taking two weeks off, but, you know, it's all very squishy here for the guys in a lot of companies as far as parental leave goes. And so I'm going to go as long as I can, but we've got live events, we've got work to do. And so I'm going to go back to work as soon as I need to. Did I understand this correctly? He gets three weeks paid.

Is that right? It's unpaid. Unpaid. Three weeks is what we've already planned for. So he's already planning to take a dip in income. I'm just worrying about taking an extra three weeks. Oh, you're not going to like my answer at all. I wouldn't take any of the three weeks.

I come from a world where when we had our babies, I worked every day. And they walked uphill both ways, Christopher. No, no i'm dead serious i wouldn't even do that i wouldn't do that you'll be fine i wouldn't take three weeks of unpaid leave the baby's fine the mama's fine i don't have memory from when i was three weeks i'm gonna tell you something right now and i'm not i'm not knocking you if you decide to do this. I'm having some fun with this, but I'm deadly serious about I wouldn't take any time off if you didn't have it.

Not in this situation, because you're going to go backwards financially. Is it going to break you? No. So it's your call, and I'm not judging anybody. Well, and if you guys were in a different place financially, the answer might be different. If you had zero debt, huge emergency fund. But because of the situation, man, I want to get to safety

when I'm bringing a baby into this world. I want to have some financial peace. You're not taking any time off. It's up to me. You'll be fine. Okay. You'll be fine. You'll survive it either way.

But I'm excited for you, man. Very good. Thank you. Appreciate the call. George, I got to tell you, I might- It changed it for you when it was unpaid a hundred percent that's a three weeks of not of not getting that paycheck like i feel like i could say this and if this offends some people they can get over it i don't know why dudes need

to be taking maternity leave our paternity what is it called paternity yeah for the dudes no stop it go to work you had nothing to do with it ken i had something to do with it, Ken. I had something to do with it, but I'm just saying I need to be at work. That's fair. I don't get it. I don't get it. We all survive just fine. This is the softening of America. I don't get it.

Go to work. Let's turn into Philadelphia cream cheese over here, Ken. Jeez. I'm going to hear it for that. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back, America. You have joined the conversation here on The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by George Camel. The phone number is 888-825-5225. All right, headline here, Money Talks News. This is the article headline. Could new legislation hurt your credit card rewards? A group of lawmakers and lobbyists are gearing up to battle over a proposal

that could change the way credit card transactions get processed and possibly up in the credit card reward system. I know that's going to kill you, George. You like those points. Love my miles, Ken. You like the miles. You know me. The Credit Card Competition Act was introduced last week by a bipartisan group of legislators.

By the way, bipartisan means Dems and Republicans. Just making sure people understand. Just a little civics lesson. And they were led by Senator Dick Durbin out of Illinois. And this is the second time he has proposed this bill. Did not go anywhere the first time. And this is the second time he has proposed this bill. Did not go anywhere the first time. And so what is it? The details of the bill are all about network access and credit card transactions. Basically, every time you use a credit card at a store or online, the bank that

issued you the card charges the merchant a fee, and this is called an interchange or swipe fee. The amount of the fee is set by the card processor like Visa or MasterCard. The merchants have no say in the matter because Visa and MasterCard dominate the network. So often the merchants pass the fees on to customers and that in turn leads to inflated prices. Now, if this is passed, George, it would require the nation's biggest card issuing banks to offer a second smaller network the opportunity to compete for transactions. There we go. The idea here is that by bringing competition in, Visa and MasterCard would have to start lowering their prices in order to get business, merchants benefit, and then theoretically, and I stress the word theoretically,

they could pass along the savings to others or to as many unsuspecting buyers that are out there, George, just keep that nifty little fee tucked down there towards the bottom of the receipt. So how could it affect credit card rewards? One estimate predicts that this would save merchants about $11 billion annually. Wow. And so the hotly debated consequence would involve the rewards. If retailers are able to select which processors that they want, the rationale says they're likely to go for the cheaper option, and that could set off a chain reaction hurting Visa and MasterCard's profits. Oh, boo-hoo.

I know, but here – I get it. But then they start slashing the points programs. So there you go. Because that's partially how credit card companies give you all the rewards when you swipe. Fat profits means they give some rewards. Okay. If you eat into their profits, they're going to go, sorry, George, your miles program, cut in half. I mean, just economically speaking, saving merchants $11 billion,

what would that do for the economy? What would that do for prices that you all are complaining are so inflated? Well, let's think about small businesses. Yeah, small businesses paying the extra 3% because you swiped your credit card. Right. And they got to pass that on or eat it. Either way, not good for the rest of us. And so this is one of the reasons

I hate credit card awards, Ken. The people swiping the card are the same people on the other side of this complaining about inflation and inflated prices. And I'm going, you caused that. Yeah. And I actually have the numbers here if you're interested, Ken, to get nerdy. You know I love numbers and I love legislation. Here are the, as of 2023, what card issuers are charging merchants per transaction. Okay. So every transaction, you spend $100. Visa charges that business owner 1.4 to 2.5%. MasterCard, 1.5 to 2.6%. Discover, 1.5 to 2.5%. You're going to love this one. American Express, 2.3 to 3.5%. There you go. And then you wonder why businesses have little signs that say, we do not accept American Express.

Right. Because they're getting screwed every time you use that card and they've got to dish out three and a half percent. That's $3.50 for every $100 they're losing. And so that, which adds up, as you can see here, 11 billion annually is what merchants would get back. So I am a fan of this bill. Okay.

I'm not going to go that far because I don't have the bill in front of me, and who knows what's in this bill. But I like that competition will be created because competition always serves the customer. Agreed. When you have monopolies or a couple of big dogs kind of strangling the competition. Yeah, Visa and MasterCard have been running the show for too long.

They set the bar, and I like competition. I also like giving small businesses more money back. That's good for all of us consumers. Well, think about that. I like this. If prices come down by 2%, guess what that means? You'll have 2% more in your budget to go get your own rewards. We hope.

Not all companies pass that saving back on to us, the customer. But on the surface, I like the bill, and I love hearing you say that you support the bill. That's what America's waiting for. I love when you get involved in consumer politics. This is all about your pocketbook. Pocketbook politics. How about that? Pocketbook politics.

You just gave someone who's much smarter than me a great book idea. I might have. All right, let's go to Brandon in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Brandon, how can we help? So I made the mistake of taking out a loan and buying a new truck a couple of years ago. And so I know I'm not supposed to take funds out of my 401k, but I've been doing my best to not tap into my HSA, um, all the medical expenses, you know, I've paid out of pocket so far, but I only have about 9,500 left on the loan.

And I'm slated to pay that off probably within the next three, four months with everything I'm slapping at it. But could I take money out of my HSA? Because I really want to start contributing 15% to my 401k. I think this is a bad plan, man. Do not rob yourself. Because this is a non-medical purpose. Well, but I'm just saying, like, from all the the bills that I paid out of my pocket so far,

I'd be just reimbursing myself. From the money you contributed to it? No, no, no. From all the medical expenses that I've paid out. Oh, I see. So you'd say, I'm going to actually submit the medical expenses and get reimbursed for this. Correct. Versus leaving the money in there. It's invested right now? No, no, I haven't gone that far yet. I just started the whole HSA plan for my first time last year. I'm going to let the HSA be for the HSA needs, which is health, and I wouldn't do the whole reimbursement, get the money out. I'm just going to use your future income, which I hope is nice and high. What do you make? Just shy of $80,000. Okay. So how quickly is this truck paid off?

If you have $9,500 left? I estimate, yeah, I estimate four months. Love it. So we can survive another four months to speed this. Is there anything else you can do to speed it up outside of dipping into your piggy banks and cookie jars? Well, there are a couple of side hustles that I could do, but there are few and far between. I play the bagpipes, so whenever I can get a gig. Is that like funerals and weddings? What are the normal occasions for a bagpipe side hustle?

Yeah, typically it's weddings and funerals, but special events come up and you can charge a premium for those. I like this idea a whole lot more than dipping into the HSA. I love bagpipes. I just want to point that out. Yeah, it's a unique art. I'll say that. But typically the most I'd make on each of these gigs is probably like $300. Well, outside of that, I mean, there's a lot of, you know, delivery apps and all kinds of gigs.

I'm sure you have other skills. What do you do full time? Oh, I'm basically a glorified auditor. Glorified. I like that. That's very self-aware. What's a non- a glorified auditor glorified i like that what was very self-aware what's a non-glorified auditor a regular listen man i listen i before it gets the frozen tundra out there you got some 15 to 20 to 25 an hour part-time gigs that are out there where you can rack up the money quickly i'm just telling telling you, if you want it, you can go get it. Well, that sounds like a plan to me. I'll just go ahead and

leave the HSA alone. Do it. Wonderful. Yeah. The other piece of this, Brandon, is behavior change and robbing one account to pay the other account. It's not really changing what got you into this mess. And I think doing those side hustles, and the worse they are, the more you're going to go, I'm never going to go into debt again. That truck loan was so dumb. I should have bought a car I could afford with cash at the time. I'm never going to do that again.

So I'm going to use future income to pay for that and find other ways than dipping in. But man, you're on the path. Four months away, worst case, this thing's gone. You got it, Brandon. Stay the course. Thank you for the call. Four months away. Worst case, this thing's gone. You got it, Brandon. Stay the course. Thank you for the call. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back, America. You are joining the conversation about your life, your money, your work, your relationships here on The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is my co-host. He joins me this hour. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Back at the first of this year, George, we told our audience that the housing market was not going to have a meltdown, and guess what? It didn't. Now, has it slowed down?

Sure. But one of the changes we've seen is that homes are taking longer to sell while buyers, and there's plenty of them, shop for homes they can actually afford. This means pricing your home right and getting it in front of the right buyer is a big deal. That's a lot to do on your own, and you shouldn't be the one navigating it in the first place. It's not your job. You need a real estate agent who knows your local housing market inside and out. You need a Ramsey-trusted agent by your side. These guys and gals got our team stamp of approval because they're top-tier real estate agents that you can trust to handle something this important. If you're ready to sell your home, don't settle for

average. Work with the best of the best, a Ramsey-trusted agent. Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash agent. That is ramsaysolutions.com slash agent. Adrian is up in Monterey, California. Adrian, how can we help? Hey, I got a question for you guys. So I've been watching this show for about three months now. And I know you guys talk about getting out of debt and debt is, or being debt free is great, right? But one of the things that I kind of get lost on is with credit cards. I hear a lot of people say that credit cards, you know, you can use them in a lot of good ways and a lot of bad ways from what the Ramsey Show explains. But my question is, why is it so bad to use credit cards if you can use them responsibly?

I see no issue in using them to build credit and earn rewards. So what advice can you guys give me? That's a fair question, Adrian. Appreciate the call today. How old are you? 23. Cool. And old are you? 23. Cool. And why are you into this financial stuff?

What are your goals when it comes to money? Just where I came from, my parents were not financially educated, and kind of seeing that wanted me to be a little bit different. A lot of my family is not, you know, they're not financially responsible. So kind of just, you know, one of my good buddies who actually forwarded me, uh, Dave Ramsey show, he is where we got a lot of the same goals in common. Just, we don't want to be, you know, struggling living paycheck to paycheck, and we would like to be a little more educated. So that's kind of where I'm at. So my goal is to be successful and not be struggling in life. Cool. That's a great goal to have and a great why. So I'll tell you my stance on this. And we hear

this a lot. I pay off my card in full every month. And here's the line. I've never paid a cent in interest. We always hear, I've never paid a cent in interest. We always hear, I've never paid a dime in interest. And the truth is, even if you pay it off perfectly, every single study we've ever seen shows that you spend more when you use a credit card, which would, by the way, negate the 2% you might be making off the card. And by the way, if there's a single misstep, you're now being charged 22% interest every single time you carry that balance. And the studies show 48% of people pay off their card every month, which means 52% don't. And that's if they were telling the truth.

We don't know if 48% were actually telling the truth there, but MIT has done a study on this. Then they found with fMRI technology, they examined the brain during the point of purchase, and they found that the use of credit cards activates the reward networks of the brain, which acts like a gas pedal, causing you to spend more. And so you ask, what's the difference between that and a debit card, right? That's probably the next question. That's logical. Well, the difference is when it's your money, your body knows that it's coming out of your bank account instantly. When it's their money that you're borrowing, your body tells you, that's kind of monopoly money. Well, that's a problem for future,

Adrian. We'll deal with that later. And so psychologically, it's different. The other difference is you physically can't spend money you don't have. And with a credit card, you can easily do that. And you're kind of just hoping you can cover the bill at the end of the month. So that's just one side of the coin. And I'll tell you, because I was that guy, Adrian, I had in 2013, I had a Discover card for the 5% rotating cash back. And guess where it rotates? Restaurants, entertainment, travel, things that we would all agree are kind of luxury spending. And so all of a sudden we're chasing 5% on a meal that costs us six times what it would have cost us if we just made that same meal at home. And so I actually interviewed a Capital One credit cards manager who used to work there on my podcast,

The Fine Print. You can go check that episode out called The True Cost of Credit Card Awards. And she told me point blank that these companies do thousands and thousands of experiments on the consumers every single year to get them to spend more, to get them to be that rat in the maze trying to get to the cheese to think that they won so this idea that consumers think i can beat the system yes they're out there and they're all over tiktok and it gets lots of views because who doesn't want to do that yeah everybody wants to win the game everybody wants to win and the truth is the credit card companies love that you think that they love that you're bragging about your rewards to all of your friends going, guys, I figured out the hack. Yeah. Man, I'm really taking capital one of the cleaners with this hack.

No, bro. They love that you think you're winning. Have you seen their offices all around the country? Yeah. They sponsor stadiums. Giant glass. Where's Adrian Stadium? That's what I want to see.

I like that. And so I've just found, Ken, that as soon as I cut up the cards, I was able to build wealth on my terms, spending money I actually had. And I weirdly didn't miss the rewards in miles. I just went, I want to book a flight. Is that on the budget? Oh, okay, cool. Great.

No rewards. It's that simple. It is its own reward. No confusing point system going, well, I have 30,000 points, but that amounts to $7 in gift cards. Why play that game? Yeah. It's mentally taxing. Yeah, it's exhausting.

I mean, Ken's just falling asleep just thinking about having to play this game. Yeah, it's exhausting. Just book a flight, you know? So that's my stance, Adrian. I'd love it. I'd find better TikTokers like Ken Coleman and George Campbell. Great start. An absolute great start.

We're on there. We're trying to dispel all this nonsense. There you go. Addison is up next in Kansas City. Addison, how can we help? Yeah. Hi, guys. Thanks for having me on. Sure. What's up? So I work as an Amazon associate, make about $18 per hour, about $37K income.

I currently have $5,000 in student loans, but I'm also looking to purchase a new car, as my car has been through the ringer that I currently have. So I've been looking at about a 7.5 K car, just above an A to B. And I also want to get those student loans paid off as soon as possible. I currently have 10 K in the bank in order to pay completely cash to the car, have no payments, anything like that. And I was kind of wondering what to do with

that student loan area because I also have a, there's a dependent account under my mom that has about five grand minimum in it. And I've been wanting to get in contact with her so that I can pull that over under my bank account and use that to sort of not have to worry about future building interest on student loans. So how does that account work? So you move that $5,000 over. How does that affect your student loan? Just so I can pay them off as soon as possible and get them out of the way and be sort of debt free okay and your car right now is it needing repairs or is it actually on the fritz where is that at like could it survive for another five

months it's in need of repairs it's got 210 000 miles on it I mean, I feel like it would be just a better investment to go for a used car that is a better value to me. Well, what would the repairs cost? I have not gotten a quote on that, but it's got to be thousands of dollars. I mean, the exterior is damaged and then there's obviously stuff wrong with the interior transmission wise. And there, yeah, there's, it's got quite a few

problems with it. Okay. Well, I'm going to do just a little more homework, actually go to the mechanic and see what they say about it. Because if it's a thousand bucks and it'll fix it up for the next 12 months, even six months, as you continue saving up, I'd rather see you knock out these student loans and then upgrade. But if the car is really like you say it is, and it's going kaput, it's okay to use that money and get a real reasonable car and not set yourself back on that student loan payoff. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Good advice. That's what we do here. Can we try? We try our best. Fantastic. Heavy lifting this segment, George. Way to go. I'm here for you to take a little break.

Staying on your shoulders. Hey, don't move. More of your call is coming up. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by George Campbell. The phone number is 888-825-5225. To jump in on the conversation, our scripture of the day comes from James 1.4. And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and

complete, lacking in nothing. Our quote of the day, oh, it's one of my favorites. You love Steve Martin, don't you? Oh, big fan. Thankfully, persistence is a great substitute for talent, says one of the most talented dudes on the planet i mean i thought he was special and then like after all these years in comedy when

he's you know the man's still as sharp as he was 30 years ago won a grammy for bluegrass yeah incredibly talented bluegrass musician banjo player uh you know he once tweeted at me what wasn't in a good way i said something snarky and me it was back in 2009 or 2010 you snarked at steve martin and i snarked and i tagged him like a big troll and he snapped back what did he did he and he called me a sad idiot child and i'll never forget it i might as well frame it in my house steve martin called you a sad idiot child do you still have that tweet um I do have it. I'll show you the screenshot once we're off air.

Maybe we'll put it on air later this week. Actually, George and I are together Friday. I'd like that to make it to the show because that is now my new nickname for you. The sad idiot child. Sad idiot child. Because I think I called him like a crazy old grandpa. And so it was the perfect snapback from Steve Martin. I've got to tell you, the fact that you got a return of serve is impressive.

There's only two ways to do it. Either be real nice to a celebrity or be a jerk, and eventually they'll snap back. Oh, yeah, they're sensitive. I can get it. Let's go to Savannah, who joins us right here in the Nashville area. Savannah, how can we help? Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

You bet. What's up? My name's Savannah. I'm calling because I recently was accepted into the Vanderbilt MBA program. I ended up deferring it for a year because for financial reasons, because it's about 60K a year and a two year program. Holy smokes. And I currently don't have any former student debt, but my husband has a little bit. And I know that I could probably double my salary doing this program but I'm just deciding if it's worth it to take out such a significant amount of debt

for the MBA. What do you plan to do after the MBA? So right now I'm working in like data analytics and I'd like to shift into consulting, which would, yes, supposedly double my salary. But honestly, I'm not even sure if that's exactly what I want to do. I'm kind of just chasing the salary aspect of it. That's what worries me. I just feel like it's a wet finger in the air. Like, I think it'll double my salary or what if it doesn't and you're $120,000 in debt? And I've actually, and I'm going to tell you this, Savannah, and I'm very passionate about this. You can take this or leave it.

You call it. Here's the free advice. That MBA is not going to double your salary. You will. Right. Right. You will. Right.

And if you want to do consulting with data analytics, is that what I'm to understand? Exactly. Yeah. So getting into data analytics, and by the way, this is for the moment we're putting to the side, the fact that you don't even know if you want to do data analytics. And I would venture to say you don't, and you're just chasing a salary. You know what? I actually admire you for saying that. I do. Because I think that's a tremendous amount of self-awareness to save you some heartache. Now, this is my particular area of work as I focus on work and meaningful work and living a life where you're winning at work, and that helps you win in other areas of your life. Okay?

So I'm really passionate about this. I would not touch this MBA with a 10-foot pole until it was absolutely clear that it was required. In other words, it was the only way to get where you want to go. And the second option is, is it the best way to get where you want to go? So for instance, and I'm making this up, if you had a company that said, hey, Savannah, we'd like to hire you, but we require an NBA for your track, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so it wouldn't be the only way to do what you want to do, but in that case it would be the best way because you've identified an employer you want to work for.

Then I'd go, okay, this is a calculated risk. I'd still cash flow it. I wouldn't take out the loan. It's not going to be worth it. We've got a great documentary on – it's everywhere. You can get documentaries. It's called Borrowed Future. And if you would just watch some of the stories from people that make really big money that were absolutely miserable because of the pressure from those loans, I just don't want that for you. And I'll be honest with you, you could eventually,

if you need an MBA, you might be able to get a company to pay for it or reimburse you if it's absolutely needed. I'm going to tell you to win in data analytics or in most business fields, the MBA doesn't get you anything. You get it and you win. Are there good things that you learn in an MBA program? Sure. But at the end of the day, you don't need it. And so don't take out the loan. That's a two-year program? Yeah. Yeah. It's a two-year program. What would be the interest on that loan? I don't even know. I didn't even look into it

because I immediately was so scared by the idea of taking out. That's 120 grand. That's a hundred and twenty grand. And I put it off a year. A hundred and twenty thousand dollars. Yeah, it just felt like a huge amount of money. It is. That's something I wasn't ready to take the leap on. Like, I needed a year. If, like Ken said, it is required, no job description says, MBA from Vanderbilt required. It just says MBA required.

So if we're just here to check the box, then I would get the most affordable MBA possible that you can do online in your spare time while working. That would be the path. Great point. And when it comes to consulting, a company that hires you to do consulting, it's probably going to be more proximity principle where they said, hey, you got to get in touch with Savannah. She's the best in data analytics. They don't go, hey, we got to Google MBA data analytics and we find Savannah. I don't think companies care. They want someone who knows what they're doing in the data analytics world.

And I'm not convinced that an MBA makes you that much better at data analytics as far as experience goes. Totally. The question is, what do you want to do? I think you have an idea. But you've been clouded by, I got to make this amount of money by this amount of time in my life, which I understand that, but I think you have a hunch. I know. And if I'm wrong, tell me,

but do you have a hunch about which way you'd like to go professionally? Yeah, actually, I really want to work with my parents. They own a business in Virginia, but I have to move back there in order to do that. And so that's just a whole different story. So I'm kind of like, if I'm living here, maybe I need to create my own path. And I think I was just starting to think, all right, what's the path that's going to make me the most? But I think what I'd ultimately be passionate about is working in the family business. What is that? What's the business?

They own a travel company. They take students on trips all around the world, and they've been doing it together since I was six years old. Okay, so we only have about two minutes, so we won't unpack the whole story, but what's the big give-me-the-bumper-sticker reason why going back to Virginia makes your stomach turn? At least it sounded like it. I want to support my husband in pursuing his career here in Nashville.

Got it. So I'm here, you know, supporting that, and we're kind of just riding the wave and seeing where that goes. And when you say support, how much money are you making right now? Together we're making $200. I'm contributing $85 to that. $85. Okay.

You know, the question I would have is can you do similar work to what your mom and dad's business does and and bring in a decent amount of money to support him in this season because that's the work you love it's not so much just the family it's you like the travel component i just wonder if if you don't go that direction and make as much as you can and you and the hubs change your budget. If you can only make 65. Sounds like you guys would make a good money. Yeah. Is there room to do that remotely?

Could you do it from Nashville at all? Have you talked to your parents about what that would look like? I could do, it's exactly what you guys are saying. I could do certain lower paying roles at their company from Nashville. I just wouldn't be able to be like a manager higher up at their company from here. But I can help them with all kinds of things remotely. Feels like that's your path.

Do you see yourself eventually taking over? I would love to. Where's the hubs at? They don't sell the business. Where's the hubs at on all this? So he would be interested in working there too, but there just hasn't been a good opportunity to come up for the both of us

there. I think, honestly, maybe we need to sit down with my parents and make a plan before we bring kids in the picture and all of that. Why don't we dream a little before we start deciding what we're going to do, when we're going to do it. I think we've got to have a big picture plan. I love this. You sounded way more

excited about this travel plan than the $120,000 MBA. 100%. I think we've decided, do, when we're going to do it. I think we've got to have a big picture plan. I love this. You sounded way more excited about this travel plan than the $120,000 NBA. 100%. So I think we've decided, Savannah, you decided. George and I just jumped on board with you. We're Team Savannah. No NBA. Let's have a talk with the hubs and the parents and figure out a long-term plan. George, good hour.

Thank you, my friend. You're the best. Thanks to Austin and the crew behind the glass keeping us on the air. And you, America, for listening. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Ken. If you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey baby steps, go to ramseysolutions.com and click on the Get Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. Again, that's ramseysolutions.com and click Get

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