The Ramsey Show - App - Don’t Throw Away Your Long-Term Security for Quick Fixes

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Waschall, number one bestselling author. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Jamie is in Dallas, Texas. Hi Jamie, how are you? Hi Dave, thank you for taking my call. Sure.

What's up? I've been a big Ramsey fan since I was young. My dad taught me to be smart with my money and to listen to what you had to say. Well, thank you. My husband and I are house burned in January and it was a total loss, the structure and all of the content and it was paid for, but it was severely underinsured. And so now we're in a situation where we haven't had a mortgage since 2019, but we only got 230,000 from the insurance and it's going to cost us roughly we only got 230,000 from the insurance and it's going to cost us roughly 525 to build a similar house.

And that's just kind of scary for me. I've never, we've never had a mortgage that large. I don't think, I mean, I know that we can afford it. We have a nice income. We're currently debt free, but I'm just trying to make sure that I'm making the right decision. And you don't have any money? Well, we have the money from the insurance. Go ahead. I'm sorry. We have about $5,000 in an emergency fund, but other than that, that's it. So what's in your retirement accounts? There is $47,000 in my retirement account. And what's

your income? Last year we made $180,000. So why do you have no investments if you've been debt-free house and everything since 2019? We have not been debt-free since 2019. I thought that's what you Know that we haven't had a mortgage since 20 got it. We are just recently debt-free So I see anticipation in anticipation of knowing we're fixing to have a substantial mortgage When I got the money from the insurance we paid off some debts that we had in order to free up some monthly income So what kind of debt did you have? We had two cars and I owed on a mobile home

That was my parents. So in 2019 my dad gave us this unfinished house and we bought my parents a single wide mobile home because that's what they wanted. Are they living in it? My mother is. My dad actually passed away the same week my house burned down. Oh my gosh. What a year. Sorry. Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean the

answer to the question is this is a horrible situation. I'm sorry you've been through it. And you're either going to build a $230,000 house or you're going to take out a mortgage for whatever over that you choose to spend. That's your options. But making $180 you should be able to reduce that and pay it off very quickly if you'll build some discipline that you haven't had before. Yes, I recently downloaded every dollar and I've already started working on that. Yeah, what about your husband? No, he's with me a thousand percent. We've been married almost 20 years, so we've kinda grown up together.

Okay, so this go-round, I mean, because you did everything bass-ackwards before, so you got no money. Where are you staying now, Jamie? We are currently living in a rental house, because it's gonna take roughly a year before our house is rebuilt. Okay, are you, okay. So if you

did this on a 15-year fixed where the payments no more than a fourth of your take-home pay, it fits our guidelines. It's a shame you're having to start over, but you're not really starting over because you really never started because you were still using debt, even though that nice thing you said at the beginning about Dave Ramsey or whatever, that was just bull crap crap because you were still doing the stuff okay you're still in debt you're carrying around two car payments and car payments and trailer payments and other payments and payments and payments you had the house paid off but the other stuff still hanging around so you can't go back to that world again you don't have that option so

now no more borrowing ever again you take out a 15-year fix, it's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay. You build your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. You start putting 15% of your income away in retirement and then you throw extra money above that out of your every dollar budget and pay off the mortgage in hopefully seven or ten years. How old are you? Okay. I'm 38.

Okay. years. How old are you? Okay I'm 38. Okay yeah so in 48 you'll be back to a paid for property and you'll never lack insurance again. I bet you don't make that mistake again and no more car payments. No more car payments. No. We're done. We've already decided that as well. Mama needs help you can't borrow to help her. Correct. No more it's over because you get this for it you got this start now but you're starting in the hole again and so we don't want to repeat this process. Okay. That's a big deal. I understand. Okay so yeah if you do that. Pretty much just start the debt snowball over.

There is no debt snowball you're starting the baby steps over because there's not a debt snowball because there's no debt except the house. The house is baby step six. Okay. So you're gonna build your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and you're gonna do that out of the 230 when you get off the phone. Then you're gonna start saving 15% of your household income into retirement and you're going well you could even save everything towards the house until you close on the house when you close on the house we were going already yeah every extra opinion we have to pay down yeah everything you can let's let's reduce the debt as much as

possible get on a very tight budget on the building. Don't let the building budget get out of control. No scope creep here. Like, oh, I need one thousand. I need one of them. No, just chill. Just get the house back up. You can add stuff to the house later. Don't let the scope creep hit you on the building budget. Then let's get in the thing and then, you know, put it on a 15-year fixed and then pay it off as early as you can and then that'll move you back into a position of strength. Always carry insurance folks. And you need to be updating it every year. Like that's the thing, you know,

it's hard to find insurance that is like complete replacement at the time. Like you've got to update it every single year. It's almost all gone. Right, and so as the equity in your home goes up, you've got to make sure that you're on top of that and changing that and updating's everybody. That's everybody What you need to be looking you need to be looking at where your coverage is every year, especially with values increasing the way they've been increasing

that's right, and so Construction increasing like cost of construction which is one of the elements of value. That's right. Of market values, cost of construction. So yeah, you've got to always update, update, update, update, and make sure you've got the proper amount of coverage to do full replacement. In the old days, you could buy a replacement policy. Yeah, I know, yeah. And it would automatically, whatever the value

of the house was, it did that. That's what it is, yeah. State Farm was the first one to do away with that because they were getting cleaned up and State Farm's really interested in State Farm. And so they were getting their clock cleaned with this stuff and so they changed it and they have a large enough footprint in the homeowners insurance business

that it started changing the whole business. And for a few years there, you could get some of the independence to write replacement costs but hardly anybody will do it anymore. It's pretty much stated value now and you know you've got to go back and just revisit it every year and make sure you raise it. You'd think they'd come in and raise it once you raise it because it raises the premiums. That's true. They don't follow up, whoever it is. None of the insurance companies do. So make sure you get a review with your insurance broker every year and raise them.

And that's what Jamie faced there. That's so sad, Jamie. I'm so sorry y'all are facing that. This is the Ramsey Show. Thanks for hanging out with us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888- 2 5 5 2 2 5 well guys listen up the new book build a business you love is officially here

launch week was awesome we've been doing the rounds on all the podcasts and the shows we've been getting the book in book in the hands of small business owners tens of thousands of you and as a way to celebrate the launch of the book our friends at Amazon music Have a build the business you love Featured billboard in Times Square in New York. Look at that. That's a lot of Dave. Holy smokes. That's a lot of Dave I'm just saying Wow Wow Whoo, that's awesome Dave. It's it's it is and it's a little much Dave. It is and it's a little much. Wow. It's huge. I mean massive. So there you go. Thank you to Amazon Music. We appreciate it. You guys heard me say this over and

over. Small business owners are the backbone of the American economy. This book is the exact system we've used to teach people to grow their businesses. Like we grew this one from a card table in my living room to where it is now. You can listen to this book and the Ramsey show on Amazon Music Unlimited Which now includes audible go start listening today Abigail is with us in Baltimore, Maryland. Hey Abigail. Welcome to the Ramsey show Hi, Dave. I feel really grateful to get to speak to you today. I really look up and admire you. Well, thank you How can we help today? So I've recently hit a really hard time. I

unfortunately have like no income coming in and I am a single homeowner. You know and I have a lot of bills that I'm responsible for and I just kind of feel at a loss. I don't really know what to do and I have been praying responsible for and I just kind of feel at a loss. I don't really know what to do and I have been praying a lot and I don't know, something in my gut just told me to talk to you and that you might be able to give me some good advice on how to navigate moving forward. Why do you have no income coming in? So a few months ago my coworker on the clock got us into a car accident and,

um, my doctors think that that is triggered some type of like autoimmune or, um, like auto inflammatory disease. So I'm seeing a specialist in a little while, but I've been having really horrible pain, like, um, to the point where I struggle with just ordinary everyday tasks and also the medications I take, you know, I can't drive on them. Is it something that impedes you from doing some sort of like a work from home or something where you're not leaving your home and not having to drive? I definitely could do a work from home.

I just am unable to find anything. Also the one, you know, the things that I can find, it's just, it's not really even enough to cover my bills. What was your previous employment? What did you do before? So that's kind of a long story. Before I was actually in management, I did like HVAC, so I was an operations manager. Unfortunately, the owner was, um, very unprofessional and inappropriate.

So I had to leave the company and then I had another incident with sexual harassment. Um, so they terminated me. I did file for unemployment and I did win. Um, and then I actually got a blessing to do some political initiatives in the swing states last year. Once that ended in November and I came back home, I was just kind of doing side gigs like DoorDash, just to kind of make ends meet until I could find something.

And then I took the first job that I could find, which was in housekeeping. And then that's when I got into the accident and I've been out of work since. Okay. Well, the answer to the equation is income, right? You're a homeowner, you're a single person, so there's no other money coming in.

So the answer to that is what kind of employment can you do with your current limitations, right? And it's out there. I think that you're gonna have to spend more time kind of deciding what is it that I wanna do? What is my background? Is it management? Is that really what the area is?

And kind of finding that one area and that's where we're looking for jobs. Because yeah, if you're not looking for the right thing in your specialty, maybe it won't pay enough, but we know that there's remote work out there. And so my guess is that you maybe did a couple and it didn't pan out and you got discouraged. Am I wrong?

Or am I right? I mean, you're kind of like, you know, just right now, like the job market kind of sucks. You know, I do like- What's the name of that company that just hired you right now now that they work from home. There's two or three of them Yeah, there's several of them. So you can know that George is always quoting it and I don't know the name of it I don't know the name of his but there's a lot out there. I mean, there's several Like you could try like something like a rise I don't want to say I'm not giving them a

Endorsement, but there's lots of them out there where you can do different customer service jobs from home. By the end of the day. Yeah, by the end, yeah, literally. When I was getting out of debt, the one I used was called Arise, arise.com. You go on there, all you need is a headset and a computer. And you're working almost instantly.

And so it's out there. I think that's just what you've gotta do to get started. And let me also encourage you that some money is better than no money. How much is your house payment? So right now it's $889, but that's going to go back down in October, so basically my escrow, there wasn't enough because the taxes went off.

So it's very low. So they just added that. How much other debt do you have? I think about like 13,000. So it doesn't take a lot for you to stay afloat. Are you behind? Not yet, but I'm very close to it. A couple of grand a month and you're afloat. Yes, yes, but that's the problem which is getting that money. No, it's not really a problem. I mean, she just told you what to do. There's online work you can sign up for with a headset by the end of the day. And you can make two grand a month. Yeah, you make 100% you can. Okay. Yeah, that's what you've got to do. So, you said you were praying about this, so are you

involved in a good church? I am, yes. Have you contacted them about sitting down with you and coaching you and counseling you? So I did speak with a pastor during the summer last year. I'm talking about right now, you're in the middle of the soup. So here's what I think I heard, and you can tell me I didn't hear it and I'll be just fine with that, okay?

As I heard your whole story, I think I heard someone who has been hurt somewhere in the past. And that hurt has stolen some of your confidence. Yeah I think you might be right. Okay all right and I don't want to go into that on a broadcast that's not fair to you nor is Dr. here, who's the only one qualified to go into it, not me. But I just could smell that in the way you told your story, because you've had so many different things come at you in a fairly short period of time.

So I want you to sit down and unpack some of that hurt with your pastor. I want you to call him today and set up a counseling appointment. If they've got a counseling department or they've got pastoral counseling that they provide and it may just be a good listening ear but it may be someone that is more trained too. I don't know but I think if you unpack that while you jump on a headset and work 40 or 50 or 60 hours a week sitting at a computer

or walking around, whatever you're able to do with the limitations you've got from home. But $2,000 a month keeps you alive right now. That's not your long-term goal. It's not your career aspiration. But until you can get your health back and sit down with your pastor, I just want you to have some eating money and some shelter money coming in. Food, shelter, clothing, transportation, that's all I'm worried about right now.

And so, yeah, our assignment would be to jump online, check Arise and their competitors, other people that do what they do, we're not endorsing them, and find something you can plug into the computer and sit there without driving and without... and you can you can check in and check out on those type of things if you're hurting. And also jump on the phone and get the pastor and let's sit down and start to unpack some of that pain

kiddo. And we can go from there. And we appreciate you being in our audience. I think you're gonna have a good year. you need to get some of this in your rear view mirror to do it though I understand what you're facing it's scary this is the Ramsey show folks if you want to help us out we can use your help we would appreciate it how would you do that well you would subscribe to the show. Click the subscribe button, the follow button. If you have a share button on what you're watching or listening on, click the share button, or just cut the link and send it to a friend by email and go, hey, check this out. If you're listening on talk radio, tell somebody to listen the time of day you listen when the Ramsey show's

on. We'd appreciate that. That five- five-star reviews helpful to all of that stuff moves the needle in the old algorithms on the internet and it causes people to learn about this show that might not otherwise learn about it because it moves us to the front of the line when you do all of those things so subscribe and follow all that stuff it's a big deal and we really appreciate it Jordan is in Spokane Washington. Hi Jordan how are you? Good how you doing sir? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey so I'm just calling because I went to watch your show last night. I would like some help maybe figure out negotiation taxes for collectors. I've had a few things in

collections for a couple years now that I've been paying on. I've got a repaid car. He had a collection company and he's just coming at me hard. He wants like five grand down to make it like a monthly, pay a lower monthly payment I can afford or 800 bucks a month or a year and a half. And you know, I'm the sole provider of a family of four. And so that kind of makes it difficult.

Yeah. So what do you make Jordan? About 92,000 upwards. I make footage. So really just kind of what the construction. Why did you get behind? So I found a new job construction fell behind where I was at and Just kind of lost some hours and You know stuff like that. I can make excuses all day to really just being irresponsible with my money Okay, that's fair. That's fair answer Is the repo the only thing or are there other collections? I have some like checking accounts that I

overdrew going into collections and some like a Xfinity bills and insurance bills just stuff like that. Okay, well let's go back to the beginning and then I'll answer your question. Okay. The beginning sounds like this. I want you to make a list of everything you're going to put on your budget and I'm going to give you the order by which you attack it. Because you've been disorganized, now we're going to go the other extreme. We're going to get extremely detailed extremely organized like this is the detailed blueprint of the building you're building over there at the construction site okay you with me okay all right so the first rule is you take care of your own household

first now what that means is the number one thing in your budget before you buy anything else is food at the grocery store. No food in restaurants when you're in collections. You're broke. You don't get to go to a restaurant. A restaurant is a luxury. Mama be at home. You're a sole income provider. So mama be cooking mama be home economist

coupon clipping she's gonna be carrying all the economic weight she can carry while she's got those babies okay all right she gonna sign up for that you okay with that she okay with that yeah all right no no eating out no vacations you're broke people till you're not broke people you don't do that anymore food is first before you buy anything else you feed your little kids before we talk about any idiot at the repo company he's way down on my list of things to worry about for you. Big deal that you get these priorities straight. Second thing is you take care

of water, lights, gas, you have the ability to operate your household with the utilities. Are you behind with any of them? I just throw an electrical bill, but I have a plan to get that called up. You have a new plan. You're going to catch it up in the next check before you do anything else other than food. Yes sir. It's the most important thing other than food. Lights, water, basic utilities.

I don't give a crap about the cable bill. You can cut that junk off. You can live without Netflix. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about electricity lights water gas however you're heating your house right so your family is now warm and they have lights and water and mama's stove works so she can cook and you've got food this is a big deal once you've this is because this emotionally sets the table for you to fight these goobers that you've got on the other end of this thing. The next thing you do is you pay your rent or your mortgage. How much is that?

My mortgage is $16.55. Is it current? I got in a trial repayment plan. So I pay three months to get caught up and put the ink on the back end. Okay until you do that I don't care if repo man ever gets another dime. You keep your house repo man can jump in the freaking creek. Yes sir. Tell him to bite. Tell him I said to bite me. He's also threatening to sue me. Oh just tell him have at it. Just get in line buddy. Right now I'm getting my mortgage current where my babies live. You get to be at the back of that line. Bite me. No. You don't get any money until my babies are fed and they have a place to live and the lights

are on. That's your first job, man. Because you're not going to make it emotionally if you keep putting these idiots at the front of the line because they threaten you. If he wants to sue you, tell him to have at it. We'll just file chapter 7 bankruptcy, he'll get nothing. Bite me. I'm serious. Okay? Yes, sir.

All right. This is how you got to talk to him, and you got to get it straight in your head what's most important. He makes his job is to make you angry or afraid, and that moves him to the front of the line. I want you angry and afraid of nothing because your kids are fed, your house is current, and your lights are on and mama's got food in the pantry. Then you throw back your shoulders and now we can fight like a man, but right now he's got you against the wall with his hands around your throat emotionally. This is what these guys do.

It's their job to get you on your heels and I'm getting you back flat-footed with your fist doubled up again you're ready yes sir all right so you gotta get a good strong base here and you have a car payment currently yes sir currently how much is it 231 okay is it current yes really I'm shocked. Good. One down, baby. All right.

We keep it current then. Okay, so if you've got a car to drive and gas in your car, you're not going out to eat, you've got food in the, and you've got a place to live, do you feel emotionally more stable? Oh, definitely. That's where you got to get to. We call that building the four walls. Then and only then do we negotiate with other collectors. Okay? Now, when was the car repoed that Repo Man's bothering you about? Uh, February. And who is the money owed to?

Associated Credit. Okay. The collection company. the money owed to? Associated credit. Okay. A collection company. Yeah. They bought the question. Like a car, original car company. Yeah. I was buying a car from, yeah. They told me they would sell coming to a settlement with me right after the auction in the car, but literally right off the bat, they just sold the thing to the auction. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. The collection company.

Here's what you tell the guy you call him back. You can call him him if you want to or you can not call him. I don't care. But I want you to call him and I want you to say, hey, I talked to my financial coach and he just told me to file bankruptcy. So here's what you're going to get. It's nothing. Bite me. You get nothing, not a zero. That's what you got. Okay? Or you can shut the crap up and stand over on the sidelines until I get my family caught up and then I'll come over and make you a cash offer. But these days of you telling me how my household runs are over, Bubba. And hang up right after you say that. Don't even negotiate with him. Just hang up. What you're doing is't even negotiate with him just hang up what you're doing is you're resetting the emotional table here to where we now know

who's in charge of your money and it's you not him you following me these guys are specialists at emotional terrorism it's what they do for a living okay because if he comes and sues you and takes your paycheck you can file chapter 7 bankruptcy he'll get zero I'm not recommending that because I think you can settle for this idiot to this idiot for probably four grand And he'll go away. You remember what the deficit was on the repo? No, no the total the total owed to them after the sale of the car is what The total owed to them after the sale of the car is what?

Yes, sir. I can't remember. Okay, but he wants five thousand up front and then eight hundred dollars a month, right? So it must have been ten or fifteen grand. Yes, sir. Okay, so they'll settle for a quarter on the dollar. So he'll probably take about four grand for this whole thing and walk away once you get him back on his seat. But now he's standing over the top of you. four grand for this whole thing and walk away once you get him back on his seat. But now he's standing over the top of you. All right, Jade, it's worth unpacking a little bit. This idea of dealing with collectors. Okay. Number one, number one, if you have the money

Laying around to pay a bill you owe the bill legitimately Pretty simple pay the bill Pay what you are. Yeah, otherwise you're just carrying around a mental load for no reason Yeah, why and so I have them I have a friend who's going through cancer treatments and they've got I have a friend who's going through cancer treatments and they've got $5,000 worth of bills laying there already early in the process and asked me, should I pay these bills? And I went, well, you've got like a half a million dollars in your investment account.

Yes, you should pay the bill. Well, but should I put them on pay? No, you don't need to put them on payments. You have the money. Pay the bill. It's not, well, I'm worried. Well, don't worry. It's $5,000. You have $500,000.

You're okay. Pay the bill. Or if you got $10,000 and it's $5,000, pay the bill. Otherwise, it's just taking up space. Well, and you owe the bill. How long? Morally, ethically. It's a debt you owe.

That's thing one. Thing two then is once you don't have the money, most companies would rather have something than nothing. That's right. I have a company, oddly enough, that has the word integrity in their company title that owes me $45,000 from 25 years ago. I'm not bitter or anything, but I do remember it. Just because of the irony, the company was called Integrity and they didn't pay me.

And so if they call me up today, and given the fact I'm probably never going to see that money ever, but if they call me up today and offer me $5,000 as settlement for that 25, I'm gonna take it so fast it's gonna be unbelievable. Just because I'm gonna be happy I just found $5,000 on the sidewalk. You know? That's the way companies look at this. And so if you've got a credit card bill that you haven't paid for three years, they probably have sold that to a debt buyer for pennies on

the dollar, usually around a nickel on the dollar, and you can probably settle that for around 20 cents on the dollar if you're broke and you don't have the money to pay your bills. You can settle. Now, collections agencies, there are several situations with those. The best of the bunch are the local hometown collection agency. They're people that your kids play ball with, their kids. They live there and they're just trying to collect a bill that is legitimately owed and they're calling you and most of them they'll put pressure on you, they'll say you need to pay your bill, you need to be honest, they'll challenge you, but most of

them are pretty decent folks at the core. All the way on the other end of the spectrum, and it goes downhill from there, is a credit card collector. Credit card collectors 100% are scum. If your child is a credit card collector, you should call them and tell them to stop and get a different job. Cleaning out septic tanks is noble. Credit card collectors, there's nothing. They lie, they cheat, they steal, they break federal law. Every single day, they're the worst of the worst.

And their job, or a repo guy, like this other guy calling this other guy their job is to get the person on the phone and if you are owed money most people have some sense of honor some sense of integrity that if I owe this money I feel bad because I've not paid it. 99% of the people walking around that aren't psychopaths have a sense of I owe this money and a little bit of shame that I haven't paid it. And their job is to use that and get you emotional. Now they have two possible emotions they can evoke from you, fear or anger. If they can get you doing either one your brain, your critical thinking skills in your brain quit working

because you're pissed off or you're afraid, you're in fight-or-flight and your brain coats and you go into lizard brain mode and then you will move them from their correct position of priority in your budget and you'll move them ahead of your children's food. A logical person with good critical thinking skills would never deny their family food or lights or water while paying the repo man. It's not logical. The only way you get there is if you become afraid because they're going to sue me. Oh no! No they're not. They're lying. You can tell they're lying if their mouth is moving. They're lying. They're lying. They make up stuff. They can sue you, but they never do. Because if they sue you, they have a 98% probability you're going to file chapter 7, they're going to get zero.

Now, what they're going to do is harass you to God's green earth to the end of it. They're going to harass you and harass you to make you angry or afraid so that they can reprioritize your budget and put you at the front. It's so absurd that they even use bizarre names. I had a lady call me her name was Mrs. Savage. That was not her name. That's not her name. Another one called me, called me her name was Mrs. Baskerville as in the Hounds of Baskerville. in the hounds of Baskerville I Mean they make up cry. It's unbeal and they sit around in their little cubicle land laughing about all of this

like it's some kind of bad movie and And meanwhile I got a guy trying to feed two kids It's working construction over here who's worried more about the repo man than he is the fact that he's behind on his light bill The only way that happens is you become emotional. So I'm trying to teach you right now. Once I got this, I'll tell you when it happened. American Express called, owed him $1,164. It was 40 years ago and I still remember the amount. Here's why I remember it. The guy calls me and he pissed me off. I hung up on him. My wife calls about two hours later and she's crying. My wife never cries.

I mean, she's got the constitution of a Navy SEAL. She does not cry. It's a hillbilly woman. If she cries, somebody died. I mean, you know, it doesn't, she's not a crier. She's crying. And she goes, he said, he said, he said, why would I stay with a man that wouldn't pay his bills and I was kind of thinking the same thing you weren't

laughing then oh I got so pissed you weren't laughing then the guy was in Jacksonville Florida I called him I threatened to drive down there and whip his butt and I got so mad I couldn't breathe and I paid him who won he did except the fact that now 40 years later I have trashed American Express regularly on the air for 40 years. So maybe he didn't win after all, or at least that company didn't win for having people like that working there because they have one of the worst, most egregious collections departments of anybody. If you do business with American Express, God help you, that's awful. You're asking for it, they're a pitiful company. I still believe that, not just because of that one event,

but I've dealt with them so many times over the years since then on behalf of clients, and they're horrible. But that's just one example, there's many, many examples. But I figured it out then, and then I went, oh wait, this is a game, and I'm losing the game. And so I just started turning it back on them. When they would call, I would just start laughing at them and just start messing with them and go,

dude, I'm like, Mrs. Baskerville, you're like a well-read collector. Who knew that? I mean, you like read books and stuff. You can do sentences that string together. That's pretty amazing. I'm so proud of you. So here's what you're gonna get Mrs. Baskerville,

nuttin', nuttin' honey. Nuttin' honey. Mrs. Baskerville, nuttin, nuttin honey. Nuttin honey. Nuttin honey, you get nuttin. Good try though, call back someday, hang up. You just start having fun with it because you realize it's a game for them and for you it's life or death and you can't let them make it life or death

or you're gonna lose the game. Listen, I've had some choice words for 1-800-PAY-ME. I'm not proud of it, but I've had them. Yeah well they got you mad. Yeah they did. They get you mad, they get you upset, they get you... because you're trying you're trying to be honorable, you're trying to have integrity, you're trying to do the right thing you got no money the guy had no money okay he broke, his car got repoed your car does not get repoed if you're rich okay.

There's a pretty simple formula here and they will settle car repo deficits for somewhere around a quarter on a dollar all day long every day lump sum no payments never pay a collector payments ever that's how they get the most out of you pay them a lump sum settle it for a dime a quarter on the dollar and get it in writing that that's a settlement in full or don't give them any money and do not for God's sakes give them electronic access to your checking account because again they lie they will clean you out. So there's your credit sharks and suits. We used to have a

lesson in financial peace university a thousand years ago. I remember that. Credit sharks and suits that was the lesson and there was a lot of stuff in that little rant there that Was in that lesson, but it's what we used to do I mean I used to sit personally when I was doing financial counseling call these people on behalf of the clients and rip them to Shreds and get the deals done But we you know now we teach you how to do it and that's fine, too So that way you'll never have to do it again, and you have to do business with companies like American Express again. I've never even accidentally done business with American Express ever again ever ever again.

This is the Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Waschall, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Hannah is in Los Angeles. Hi Hannah, how are you? I'm doing fine. I'm glad I'm getting some advice on this subject that we are sad to be in too, but it happened.

2016 we went through the university program and in 2017 we became debt free and were able to purchase our mobile home debt free completely. And since then, we have obtained three major personal loans and 13 credit cards, which has put us into a hole of $46,000. Yesterday, we did talk to a loan officer that has helped us, has got us into it. We didn't pay for it. We haven't got it yet, but we were able to obtain a loan of $29,000 that would put us into a debt relief loan. And that's why I'm calling on Marty to give advice about it. what concerns me is that every loan and credit card we have had 100% in our paying the bills on time. I don't know how we've done it. It has to be the law completely.

Why did you go into debt after you were out of debt? Because we like paying off the credit cards to pay off the credit cards to pay off the credit cards. I thought you said you were debt free 100% early. We were. Then why did you even have a credit card? Because of certain emergencies that came up. You had an emergency fund? emergencies that came up. You had an emergency fund? We did, but then we had going to, we had medical bills and things like that it came up and we frankly went to the University but we didn't have a big mess. What's your household income?

Well right now I make $1,600 a month, my husband makes $1,600 a month, and that's only social security, and that's all our income. So you have social security income. How old are you guys? I am 69, my husband is 71. I just turned 72, excuse me. Okay, so you have a $3,100 income, and you have a mobile home in Los Angeles? Actually, we're in Hennet, but Los Angeles is, but we go there a lot. It seems like my grandkids, that's very good.

So we're constantly traveling. How were you paying for the travel? Through gas. I mean, we pay, my husband is like a handyman for a friend of ours and my husband's constantly getting paid to do it. He gives our jobs. So that's kind of what we do, what he does. So he gets paid a little bit every month, which isn't a lot, but it does help with a

lot of our bills, which is not a lot of bills, but we do have them. And how can we pay? So you have $46,000 in debt and you have a paid for mobile home. Yes. You live in the mobile home still? Yes. Okay.

Do you own the land under the mobile home? Yes. Yes. What is all of that worth? We paid $70,000 for the mobile home at the time that we bought it. What is it all worth today? The000 for the mobile home at the time that we bought it. What is it all worth today? The land and the mobile home.

$175,000. Okay. $135,000. Okay. And I'm still confused. This is not in Los Angeles. It's where? It's in Nervous Hub County.

Wow. Okay. Yeah. It's in Nervous Head County. We live a hundred miles from my family, but that's where everybody lives. And so the cost in our church in Alley County is that we wash it a lot most of the time online. Okay, and you ran up $46,000 in credit card debt. Yes. And someone's offered you a $19,000 loan. $29,000 in credit card debt Yes, and someone's offered you a $19,000 loan 29 a 29,000 alone. Okay, they want the they want the trailer as collateral No, no collateral. Hmm. I'm just

Always debt relief. Yeah, well, it's not alone where I'm where I'm worried about you Hannah is you're still you're you're still looking to debt as the solution for this. You haven't learned your lesson that debt is the issue, and Financial Peace University didn't get it through to you, and you're still, no, no, no. You're still borrowing money. You're still borrowing money. You called me about borrowing $29,000.

And so even if we said to you today, We're gonna close all of our debts. even if we said to you today, even if we said to you today, hey, sell this land and mobile home and take $46,000, pay everything off and then take the little bit and get yourself a modest, put it as a down payment on your next thing, you'd get yourself in the same trouble again. And so there's something that's got to change in your mind in order to make this right. You have to have a new commitment to have an income that's large enough that you live on less than it. That's right. And you've got for it 3,100 and but you can't even pay the payments on what you've got 3,100

and eat and buy gas to run back and forth to see grandkids that you're describing. So I don't know what your husband's making on top of the 3,100 as a handyman, but he needs to be making at least double that. I mean, living in LA County on 3,000 bucks is pretty tough. That's pretty tough. And I don't know how long they've been retired from not working job jobs, you know what I'm saying?

Well, 69 and 71, but yeah. I don't know, I don't know. But Hannah, the situation is you don't, what we keep hearing what Jade's saying is we don't have math that is sustainable here. Because the pattern keeps you spending more than you have coming in. And that's not a pattern that's sustainable. And you're telling yourself, you're telling yourself a lie, which is you're telling yourself,

we always made payments, we always did it on time, you're still telling yourself that story. And I don't know how we did, like it's a miracle. That's not a miracle, it's just, you paid the stinking credit cards before you did anything else, and that's how you did it. And then you barely ate, and then you barely bought a little gas money,

and your husband swung a hammer enough to get it done. Or turned a wrench, or whatever he was doing. But still, I mean, that's, so yeah, I think what we need to do is consider the trailer and the land. I don't know if that's sustainable. I don't know what the cost is on all of that. Where you're living is one of the most expensive areas in America to live. And it's near your grandbabies, I heard that part, I get that. But you cannot borrow your way out of debt. So no, do not take the $29,000 loan. Yes, increase your income, get on a detailed budget where every dollar has a name before

the month begins and the two of you find enough work to do on top of your social security to get this forty six thousand cleaned up so an example would be if you did two thousand dollars a month you would be done in 23 months towards the death yeah that's right and that's an example you if you did twice that you'd be done in ten months so you know that's the kind of thing I'm looking at. What kind of a sprint can I do with odd jobs, part-time jobs, full-time jobs, whatever for a short period of time to get this in the rearview mirror and then you've got to keep this in your rearview mirror and you can't say well we had an emergency. You have an emergency you got to figure out a way to pay for it because you can't

borrow money. No more credit cards. You have an emergency you gotta figure out a way to pay for it because you can't borrow money. No more credit cards you have to stop it because you're gonna wake up at 81 in the same situation and then 91 in the same situation because the math you keep and the and the excuses that you're using to get into debt those are not sustainable that's exactly what Jade's pointing out to you. So you can still do it but you've got some tough choices ahead of you, kiddo. This is The Ramsay Show. ["The Ramsay Show Theme"] Folks, if you didn't know, we have the Ramsay Network app

that you can download and watch and listen to all of our shows that the Ramsay Network puts on for free. It's completely free. And the third episode of the daily show that we do here is only on the app or on talk radio. So you can do it, you can get that always by listening and watching on the Ramsey app. And a lot of other things that are available there. You can search different questions there and you can leave us a question. Today's Ramsey Network app question is from Richard. Yeah, he says, my ex-wife and our 21 year old daughter

want me to co-sign a $4,500 student loan. My ex has already co-signed $75,000 for our daughter's tuition. I offered to give her 2,000 and have her pay the rest to give her some skin in the game, but that was quickly dismissed. My daughter doesn't associate tuition with actual cash and she's amassed all this debt without a degree.

She drops classes on a whim and having to use her own money might make her more responsible. I'm buying my dream car today with cash and I feel a bit like a schmuck. Good word. Am I right to make and take this stance with my daughter? Okay, so I wish I had you on the phone because I want to know more, but part of me thinks,

I like the idea. Yeah, I do think that students should have some skin in the game, whatever that means. Whether it's their spending their time getting scholarships, whether they're working part time, whatever that is, I do think that that's really healthy. Second part of that is, yeah, during the baby steps, there is a step devoted for saving money for college. We never say how much that is. We never say that parents have to pay all of tuition. That's not required.

So on that note, Richard, you were not required to pay for all of your daughter's tuition. I like the fact that you're trying to come up with ways where she pays part and you pay part. But I think that you're feeling like a schmuck. I'm not saying you are a schmuck, but I think you're feeling like that because you're like, hey, I'm about to buy my dream car.

I don't know what it costs, but dream cars, it's probably at least 30 or 40,000 is my guess, at least. And you're probably thinking you could have maybe done more in the past is what I'm thinking. And that would be true, but you're probably thinking you could have maybe done more in the past is what I'm thinking. And that would be true. But you're here today. I also think there's like four angles on this. I also think that your daughter and your ex, you can't control them and they're going to

do what they're going to do. And that's also a really tough position. Yeah, I think that- Yeah. So honey, your mom and I aren't married for a reason. Yeah. Because your mom's not a very smart woman. And I'm not going to participate in her stupidity. And so I would love to teach you a better way to live and a better way to get your education. And I'll be happy to put some money towards your education, really as much as you need, as long as you're doing it in a way that is wise.

When you're borrowing money and dropping classes on a whim, none of that is wise, and I'm not gonna participate in that. And if you feel like a schmuck because your ex-wife is a travel agent for guilt trips, she doesn't get a vote anymore, that's why we call her the ex. I think he feels like a schmuck

because it's a shoulda, coulda, woulda. Like it sounds like he's- Well, he doesn't like telling his little daughter no. I don't know. It sounds like he was fine too because he was like I'm not giving you this 4500. No he said he's not co-signing. No he's not co-signing but he also didn't offer to give her the cash, the 4500 cash. Yeah because she's not wise. She's under the direction of a not a very smart woman known as her mother. Yeah. So yeah I mean it's... I know I don't... I have no idea why the guy feels like She's not wise. She's under the direction of a not a very smart woman known as her mother. So yeah, I mean, it's, no, I have no idea

why the guy feels like a smug. There's a lot of possibilities. But not worried about that. I'd also love to know how long the daughter's been in school. But your ex-wife doesn't get a vote and as long as your daughter is like a little puppet, hand puppet for your ex-wife,

and she's opening her mouth and your ex-wife is coming through, daughter being channeled through your daughter's lips She still doesn't she didn't get a vote either then Yeah So if I can sit down with her and separate her from this stupidity and have a clean conversation as an adult I'll help her but I'm fine not helping this kid. I'd also I don't feel like a schmuck at all. Just no I'm not gonna participate you're doing cocaine. I'm not giving you the money for cocaine. She also might need some better counseling because it sounds like, yeah, some of her mother's an idiot. Yeah, you guys didn't set her up. She doesn't know

her options. College might not be for her. If she's already taken out $75,000, she's probably already been in college for years and she's still not doing anything. And she's not even, you know, without a degree, without a degree, run up all this debt. And she drops classes on a whim. College may not associate tuition costs with cash and this kids you know and that's why that's why this woman's ex so ex means you don't give a vote anymore yeah you lost your vote it's like a felon you don't get to vote anymore it's ex so what do you call it that yeah I don't I don't know enough about it but I'm looking at this It sounds like just looking at the daughter,

forgetting about the X for a minute. Sounds like school is not really the daughter's deal. She's been in, it sounds like at least four years. She's a party girl. Yeah. She's over there drinking. She didn't worry about class. Yeah, she's gonna have to.

Beer pong, beer pong and dates. That's what she's doing. Am I wrong? No, you're not wrong. No, you just said beer pong like you know. Like I know what it is. A decent bit about it. It wasn't invented back then. I've come into that knowledge since, but since college, but oh my gosh. All right, Randy's with us. Randy's going to help us, I hope. Randy's in Springfield, Missouri. Hey, Randy, what's up?

Dave, Jay, thank you for taking my call. Real quick. I was recently listening to your show on the way to a networking event at college of the Ozarks and on the walk in from the parking lot. Let's tell them my coworker all about your show and lo and behold, I walk inside and there's three giant Dave Ramsey posters up on the wall and I said, Hey, that's the guy. So now he's a he's a listener too wow but I spoke there one time a few years back that's a wonderful place yes it is my question is my wife and I recently got out of debt everything but the house and I'm wondering if employee stock purchasing program is a good vehicle to fund things like emergency fund

and sinking funds. No. Single stocks, because single stocks are too volatile for those things. There's no single stock on the planet, I would put my emergency fund in. I agree. Okay, so even if you sell it right after it's purchased,

the math doesn't work out. No, very seldom. Here's the deal, because if you'll if you pull up your company stock, they give you a 15% discount That's regulation, right? Right. Yeah, that's standard. Everybody gets that So if you pull up the company stock and look at the 15 52 week high and 52 week low It generally is greater than a 15% swing back and forth So you you could lose the and forth. So you could lose the money as easily as you could make money on it. It's just not, it's too

volatile. It's not a game I want to play. And if you find a stock that goes up every single week for 52 weeks, you found a very unusual stock that you're having to work for that company. So, but the 15% discount is not enough for the volatility for the risk that you get. If you had a 50% yeah you probably make some money on that and you could roll in and out of it in 90 days or 30 days or whatever the window is. You have a certain hold time on it when you get it you can't just sell it the next instant but most of the time anyway. But yeah no I just don't play with the single-stock game. I don't play the single-stock game even if it's the

company you work for I Agree too much risk too much risk particularly for your emergency funders sinking funds Particularly those that'll be just high yield savings count Kelsey's in Amarillo, Texas. Hi Kelsey. How are you? Hey, Dave, I am blessed. How are you better than I deserve? How can I help? Hey, so long story short, we live next door to my in-laws. I have a handicapped brother-in-law that will end up being, uh, living with my husband and I often his parents are unable to take care of him.

And we need a bigger house. Um, because of our situation, we can't move too far away, but a house across the street is available. Um, and we can't move too far away, but a house across the street is available and we can afford it. But my question is, should we do it? Am I making a decision that's from the heart or is it logical? That makes sense. You need a bigger house. Why? Well, because we already have two kids and if we end up having to hit his parents are in their late sixties or 70s and if we need to take my brother-in-law in we'll need a bigger house because right now we only have

two bedrooms. But that would be like a decade from now. That's what I was going to ask. Do you see a reason that that's going to happen really soon? Well, my husband's parents died in their 70s, early 70s. We're just trying to be prepared. Are these people sick? Are they sick?

No. I don't think not that we know of. I think you're jumping the gun and I think you see an opportunity because there's a for sale sign in the house next door. Across the street. Across the street. Yeah and you're thinking oh here's our chance. It feels very premature to me. I'm not gonna lie. If you want a bigger house at Baby Steps 4, 5, and, and it's still 15% of your take-home pay, or 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed, and you still have a game plan to get it paid off, that's fine.

But I don't think you use the reason that you were using to go get a bigger house, because you don't really need a bigger house today. But if you want one, That's different. You could go do it mathematically, and it still would be inside the Baby Steps. But the fact that you might get another person

in the next 10 years No, we don't need a bigger house for that Jade wash all Ramsey personality is my co-host today Raquel is with us in Los Angeles. Hi Raquel. How are you? Hi folks. I'm great. Thank you. Thank you guys for taking my call. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? Amen. So the question I have for you is my husband and I are 33 and we are possibly considering buying our first home. We would like to put an offer in, but we have the possibility of borrowing $110,000 from my in-laws in order to not touch our last nest egg, which would be a Bitcoin that hopefully will increase in value in the next few

years. We can use that Bitcoin, but we are wondering whether or not it would be wise and we would like your advice. So you're brand new to the show? Brand new. Okay. Well, not brand new to Dave Ramsey. I know that you're not a big Bitcoin. I've been listening to you on and off my whole life since, you know, my mother kind of you kind of expect me to tell you to sell the Bitcoin. Yeah, we kind of, we kind of. That would be fairly predictable if you've been listening at all. Yeah, okay. For different reasons though. I mean, first off, yeah, Bitcoin's not a great investment. We would never suggest it.

It's like, it's, you know, speculation at best. It's not an investment. And the second reason is if you have the money, use your money. Why take a loan and risk a relationship being tainted by this, right? From the in-laws especially, when you've got the money today. Let's reframe it for a second, Raquel.

Here's an interesting way to look at it. If you didn't have a Bitcoin, would you go and borrow 110,000 from your in-laws to buy a Bitcoin? No, for sure no. That's what you're doing. Okay. By not selling it and instead borrowing to do the other

thing is the exact same movement. You just skipped a step and acted like it didn't happen. But in essence, you have borrowed the money to buy the Bitcoin since you could have sold it and not borrowed the money. See what I'm saying? Yeah. From a decision framework perspective. And so, yeah, that reveals how much risk is involved here. So a couple things we've discovered is there's a difference between investing and speculating. Investing is when you have a five-year or 10-year time horizon with an investment that has a track record, a history of 10 years or so or 30 years or whatever.

For instance, if you're buying a rental property, you would say, okay, I can look at properties in that general area and say over the last 20 years or 30 years they've done this. And I have a holding period of five or 10 or 20 years on a rental property. That's an investment, a mutual fund that's been open 10 or 15, 20 years. And you can say the track record is X and based on that, I'm going to buy it not for a short hold, but for a long hold. When you buy something for a short hold to flip it, that's called speculation. It's not called investing. It's not called the nest egg.

And so you're, you're giving the wrong names to these things and that tells us that you put the wrong weight on it. So the, and the fact that the only money that you have is a high risk speculative investment. See I almost did it. High risk speculative item is very dangerous for you. That's point number one. Point number two is the borrower is slave to the lender. When you borrow money from someone, you by nature change the quality and the texture

of the relationship with them. Your Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you owe your in-laws 110 grand. Right. They look at you going on a cruise differently when you owe them 110 grand than if you don't owe them 110 grand. And even if they don't say anything, you can feel the eyes bearing into the back of your soul. You know what I'm talking about? Right. And so don't change the quality of that relationship, number one, like Jade said, number two, don't have your nest egg in something that's built for speculation. If you want to speculate on Bitcoin, it would be a small percentage of your portfolio because you're trying to make quick money on it. It's not a long-term investment horizon. And that doesn't

make... So if you want to speculate on it, I'm not gonna yell about it, but where I get upset about Bitcoin is when you've got everything you own in it and you're counting on that and if you go back and look at what short track record we do have on Bitcoin it's extremely volatile. So I mean you like went to Vegas with your nest egg. This would be like the last thing. We have our assets and our savings in mostly other things, but this Bitcoin is the last thing we're like, oh, we could keep it because it's speculation. Okay, so how much do you have in your real nest egg? You called this your nest egg.

Yeah, in our real savings, which would be cashing out most of our like gold and silver and like that's mostly where our money is Is gonna is two hundred and fifty thousand. You have two hundred fifty thousand in gold and silver Yeah, yes, we do and how much is the book in the big coins a hundred Yes, and then the Bitcoin is just like a hundred and that's why so you could you have you could put you could catch all this now Like three hundred000 towards the property. For the, yes, for the down payment. That would be a really good move. Do you have anything in just like mutual funds

or just like? You know, we're not, we're newer to mutual funds, but, and we know, we listen to the Ram show, but we haven't, we mostly are like the tactile, like gold and silver. What bothers you about them? What spooks you about mutual funds? I'm just curious.

Nothing spooks us. I just don't think that, like my husband's administrator, I don't think he's just like gotten to the point where he's like, okay, let's sit down and like actually, you know, like invest in them and buy them. Cause we've just done everything else like, you know. You've done ultra high risk things that are extremely volatile in all three categories

compared to more standard investments and the tortoise wins the race every time I read the book, the tortoise and the hare. And you've got everything over in hare bucket instead of in the tortoise bucket. And the people that build wealth are not the ones that take as much risk as you all are taking. So if I could talk you into it, and I doubt I can, because I've got the wrong person on the phone, and the other guy's the one doing it.

So, but if I could talk you into it, Jade and I both instantly said sell it all. Yeah, that's right. And pay a huge down payment on this house, and get you something that's stable. I mean, owning a home in Los Angeles, freaking great investment. A great investment. And that's the direction we would go

if we woke up in your shoes. I don't know if I can get you there in one phone call. Yeah, well, yeah, she didn't seem like she had any aversion to it. It sounded like the spouse was kind of the one. Yeah, he's the administrator. Yeah, and so that's, yeah, he's the one that's doing all this stuff

so he's not gonna let go of it as quick as she did but I have a Thought I don't know if I'm either 33. They're trying to buy their first house and My guess is they're trying to make a lot of money fast. It's get rich quick 100% Yeah, and they've been lucky so far, but that is the word. Yeah luck Yeah, because again if if you chart gold, silver, and bitcoin, and you look at the peaks and the valleys, that jump up and jump down, that represents risk, and you put an overlay on that, like with real estate,

real estate would look seriously boring. If you put an overlay on that with a good growth stock mutual fund, compared to the peaks and the valleys, you'd just see these huge mountains and huge valleys on Bitcoin, gold and silver and you would see mutual funds going, just real steady over like a 10 year period of time.

And you would just be dizzy with the craziness of gold and the craziness of Bitcoin. And so it's just a high risk speculative thing. It's not a good investment for that reason. If you wanna play roulette, if you wanna play Texas Hold'em, if you want to speculate, if you wanna do house flips,

if you wanna do day trading of single stocks, those are all things that fall into the heading of speculation. Which speculation is not gambling, but it's more akin to gambling than it is investing. We use the Vegas metaphor, but it is closer to a Vegas roulette wheel in terms of risk profile than standard investing. That's why we would always take you there.

It's an interesting call. Thank you, Raquel. Good call. Thanks for clarifying with always take you there. So it's an interesting call. Thank you, Rokel. It's a good call. Yeah, and thanks for clarifying with us where you were. But yeah, I don't own any Bitcoin. I don't own any gold except one watch. That's it. And I own real estate that's worth probably 600, 700 million dollars worth.

And I don't buy gold and I don't buy gold and I don't buy Bitcoin and I don't speculate I don't day trade stocks and I don't do I don't do quick flips I'm just a long-term boring tortoise it's worked really really well this is the Ramsey show show. Our question of the day is brought to you by Yreify. If you've got defaulted student loans that don't let you gain any momentum, we get it. No judgment, but also nobody's gonna come bail you out. So take charge if you've got a defaulted private student loan. Get in touch with the people at Yreify. They offer refinancing at a low fixed rate student loan, get in touch with the people at YRefi. They offer refinancing

at a low fixed rate, help you get current, and then get out of debt. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey, might not be in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Meredith in New Mexico. She says, does the suggested four different mutual funds strategy apply when a couple is older? My parents are 75 and 72 and have 1.5 million dollars in investments plus a paid off house and no debt. Their monthly income between social security and pensions is 7,500 and they're also withdrawing monthly RMDs from their investments. They have no debt and a paid off home. So just to catch people up to speed

on the four investment types, Dave, that's the teaching around here. You invest across four, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth and international. And so that's what we've been saying for years here. In this case, I wanna know more about the 7,500. Is that enough for them to live off of? What's their lifestyle like? Are they traveling a lot?

Basically, are they looking to invest more? It sounds like they're really only living off interest. Like they're not touching the actual nest egg. So Dave, I don't know that I would tell them that they have to continue to invest. I suppose if they wanted to, they could still use that strategy. But the biggest thing that I'm thinking about is, are they putting this money, let's see, they can't put it into a Roth because it's not... Well, I don't know that she's asking about investing.

Does the suggested four different mutual fund strategy apply when a couple's older? She wants to maybe put it in something else, the million and a half. Is that what you drew from that? That's what I get from that. Yeah, instead of not, you know, because of course the asset allocation model says that as you get older, you should move towards bonds and money markets,

which I disagree with the asset allocation model. I think it's a bad theory. So here's the reality, Meredith. These people are not really running this million and a half investment portfolio for themselves. They're running it for the next generation. They're never gonna touch it except for the RMDs that they have the required minimum distributions

that they're taking off. They're living on that and on the 7,500. And so they're actually at 75 and 72 investing it for the next generation. So they have a long investment horizon for you. She said it's her grandparents, right? Or no, her parents. They're investing it for you. And so, um, I'm 64. I will not move anything out of those four before I die.

I'll be in those four categories all the way to death because I likely will never touch it. And so I'm actually investing it for Rachel, Denise, and Daniel, my kids. And so they will get that upon my death, or upon mine and Sharon's death anyway. So, you know, that's what that million and a half is doing. So it's gonna grow better across those four than if you start dumbing it down using this stupid asset allocation thing.

And that's what she's heard about, I'm sure, is to change the mix of the portfolio. Interesting. I'm wondering also about how much of the 1.5 million is just in traditional IRAs versus? Says investments, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know.

I feel like that'd be the thing I'd be wondering most about. I would have that 1.5 across the foreign mutual funds. I'd have that 1.5 across the foreign mutual funds. I do have that 1.5 across the foreign mutual funds. And I'm slightly younger than them by about 10 years, but still same theories apply in that situation because they're not gonna draw this all out in the next five years. I promise you, they're not gonna draw it all out

in the next five years. They're multimillionaires. going to draw it all out in the next five years. They're multi-millionaires, they're in great shape, they can do anything they want to do without even touching it. I mean they already have a hundred, a hundred and fifty thousand dollar a year income and so they're fine, they're fine and that's what I would do but that I think that's the essence of the question. I could be wrong. So, good question. Thank you for writing that in. Luke is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi, Luke. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm good. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I own and operate a small construction business. My wife is a stay-at-home mama

and we got two kids and got some bad treads going on. I think the past couple of years I've acquired a pretty serious amount of debt and we ate through all our savings. Why? Are you not making money? Not enough, I guess. What are you spending it on? I have quite a bit of, well, I had last year,

I had quite a bit of a business expenses that were fairly irresponsible and it kind of drove me down. And also, uh, the business doesn't have a real clear plan at this point, which I think is hurting my productivity a lot. So I don't, you know, my hours are what do you build? Uh, just general remodel construction. my productivity a lot. So I don't, you know, my hours, aren't there. What do you build? Uh, just general remodel construction. I do a lot of, I do some of my own jobs and I do, uh, yeah, tools and I've brought a truck for the business. Um,

I already had one, but I upgraded it and that was pretty big expense. Yeah. What'd you buy? What kind of truck? It's a Chevy Silverado 2500. Brand new? No it's a 20. So 60 grand? Yeah. Okay. Sell it. Okay. The guys in the construction business that make real money drive $5,000 trucks. Yep. They don't prove their construction ability with the truck they drive. They prove it with the hammer they swing. Yep, right.

The guys that have been doing business for years, you know the one I'm talking about. They're grizzled. Yep. Their hands are gnarled. They can build anything. They can see stuff in their head that nobody else can see and then they can make it come to life you know those guys oh yeah yeah I do too I grew up in the business and they're incredible human beings but they drive all junk trucks because they don't give a crap what you think about your truck yeah right right you get rid of the truck what else did you buy?

Well, I bought an investment property last year. Sell it. Okay. You're broke. You don't need investment property. Yep. What else? I'm feeling so much lighter already. I was heavy for a minute, but now you're getting lighter. I have one question with that investment property.

I have a renter in there that I have a lease signed. Should I wait until that lease is up next January? No, if you can sell it to another investor, sell it. What do you owe on it? I owe $110,000. It's worth $150,000. Okay, see if you can get somebody to buy it. Maybe somebody wants a renter till next January. Gotcha. Or you could pay the renter to leave if you put 60 grand in your pocket or 40 grand in your pocket and pay the rent or 5,000 bucks to go away. Yep. I'd do that because you've been buying crap instead of working. Yeah. And you know, on that note, do you think I should start from scratch with my business, try to specialize in something to get my hours up, or do you think I should kind of take

a hit to my pride and just get a full-time job and scale the business back to like a part-time job? I would give yourself six months of new zeal and enthusiasm to learn how to run a business. And during that six months if I can't get my act together on running the business properly then I'm going to go to work for somebody that knows how to run one. Because I know several people doing what you're doing that have a net taxable income of in excess of $300,000 a year. You have the ability to make a lot of money but you've got to learn how to run the business. Yeah. And that involves like your estimating has

to be on your times. How long is it gonna take to do the job and you're estimating on the cost to do the job. The cost of materials, the cost of labor to do the job has got to get so dialed in that it's almost perfect. Then you're delivering the job to the customer on time and on budget and they're going to love you and they're going to send you so much business you won't be able to beat people off with a stick and you'll make so much money but you need to learn to run what's called a job cost which is a P&L on each job a profit and loss on each job so that you learn your estimates and where you're off on your

other estimate and then you can correct and get your estimates dialed in. If you could push that button for six months, I think you could get this moving. If you can't, then it's okay to go to work for somebody. There's no shame in that. And go watch them learn and learn from them on how to do it. And do it, you know, do this on the side. But yeah, you've been, you went in business and then you went and bought a bunch of stuff You sell all that stuff to get your life back Right on there we go. This is the Ramsey show Live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth Do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships.

Jade Washoff, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Lynn is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Lynn, how are you? Hi, I'm so excited to talk to you. Well, you too, how can we help? Well, I wrote in because what started this questionnaire Well, I wrote in because what started this questionnaire is I was talked into a flexible, premium, adjustable life. I'm sorry.

I am too now. I lost my husband about two and a half years ago and we've always had money with Western and Southern and I have another account I had my both of our 401ks turned over into an IRA and I had to start pulling out and he said you know for tax purposes I could put it into this and at that point you know, for tax purposes, I could put it into this. And at that point, you know, I just put all my grandkids, which I have 12 and put them all on it thinking that later on down the road. Well, what made me a little upset is they send me a paper telling me where this

money's going. And that's when I started looking into it. Um, I pulled you up on YouTube and did my homework and you told me to get rid of it. And so I'm hoping I'm in the process now of shutting it off. You know, um, just from what you've taught me now that I've been watching YouTube and listening to you, um, for years, being my husband, I've listened to you. So, um, you, you have your money all after your husband passed away with a life insurance company and you need to move it to an investment company, someone to help you do actual investments not buy insurance. Yeah I've

got let's see I've got one it's like a money market or whatever, annuity. I'm not even. Yeah but the guys that you're dealing with are insurance people. Okay. You need to go just jump online at RamseySolutions.com and get with the SmartVestor Pro, some folks in the actual investment world. Yeah, because those guys are just going to … Yeah, they can teach you and they're not going to jerk you around with it. They can teach you what you're buying and you'll be comfortable with it and you're

going to get just unbelievably lower fees and much better quality investments. Oh I was very upset when I seen the flexible and I just they just they took a widow to the cleaners they should be ashamed of themselves. I'm pretty well set money wise and you know I really don't have to touch my 401k right now, or at all, and I have to set it up. It's not with them, right? Yes, it is. Yeah, move it. Oh gosh. Yeah.

I would move everything to a good, to a good financial planning firm that does actual investments, that does not sell insurance. Okay. That's what you need, cause you're being put in these insurance products, and it it scares me because if they're willing to do this to you on the investment that you put in the flexible premium and rip you off there I'm worried about what they're doing with the 401k then. Well they're

saying they're taking it out of my 401k to pay for it. We're about to stop that when you cancel this thing. Yeah, immediately. I just did yesterday. Good. And then, from listening to you, and then when I was reading, you had taught me that it just doesn't stop. Like if I would get sick, my kids are going to have to keep paying for it. And I was like, no, it's not worth it. It just keeps sucking the blood out of everything that's healthy. I'd rather take that money and give it to my grandkids now. You don't have to give it to them now. You can just put it in a good investment. Where you're not being screwed over. That's all you're doing.

So yeah, just go to RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor. Pick out a SmartVestor Pro in your area. Pick out two of them. Go sit down and interview them. Tell them your story and get a sense of how you feel about the air in the room with the person you're meeting with. Because you now know what a skunk smells like. And so you know how to stay away from skunks now.

How is it that insurance somehow became synonymous with like, I'll put investing in air quotes and like financial planning? Like I can't understand how those two got linked together because. Well, the history lesson is one thing and then the current state is another. The current state is that people that have not passed

their securities exam, they're not licensed to sell securities. Exactly. And so they sell insurance products and call them investments. Because an insurance license is like taking, I mean a sixth grader can pass that test. That's what I'm saying. But to pass your series 63 or your series seven to be able to sell, which I passed. And I dropped the licenses, but because I don't want to be regulated on my opinion here on the air. But anyway, but those are more like taking a CPA exam.

That's like a real exam. You have to study and actually know what the flip you're doing and that kind of stuff there. But I mean, most, most States, the real estate license is a joke. And the insurance license is a joke. I took my real estate license in 27 minutes in 1978 and I made a 94. I mean, and I was 18 years old.

That's how lame Tennessee's licensing for real estate was at that time. It's a little tougher now, but not a lot, not compared to a securities license. So that's the modern day answer as to why they do that. But you can tell if someone is, if they have no mutual funds, a direct, if they cannot sell you a mutual fund, they're not securities licensed. If they only have mutual fund,

they can sell you inside of an insurance policy, they're not securities licensed. And so that means that they haven't passed the same tests. And it means that they're not regulated by the same bodies. The Securities and Exchange Commission regulates the SmartVestor pros. They do not regulate whole life life insurance agents. They call themselves investing brokers, which they're not.

Okay, so the long-term history though is, life insurance originally was sold as term. It was sold as what's called ART, just our annual renewable term. So once a year you got older, so your statistical probability of death was higher. So your life insurance premium was higher, once a year. So your life insurance premiums went up every single year.

And that's a pure statistical insurance policy. It's the most pure there is. Then they figured out that what they call persistence in the insurance world, which persistence means when an agent writes a policy, how long does it stay on the books? If it's got good persistence, it stays on the books a long time, and you make good commissions over a long period of stay on the books? If it's got good persistence, it stays on the books a long time,

and you make good commissions over a long period of time on it. If it's not got good persistence, it turns over. Well, guess what? If you get a bill every year and every year it goes up, your probability of canceling is very high. So the ARTs had and have horrible persistence. They don't stay on the books,

so they gotta go sell them again. They gotta go sell them again. They gotta go sell them. So they figured that out early in the life insurance game back when it first started and then they started saying we'll take the average of the 10 years and charge you a 10-year level. So it's higher the first year you know and somewhere around about year five it would cross in the middle but the persistence is better because you have

this your rate never goes up so you know you have no emotional activation to cancel and so they were able to lower the price so the 10-year is lower than the average of 10 ARTs and so that's then they added the investment side to it to make it feel like you're owning instead of renting and they started selling that crap and then they figured out they make so much money on that that they build tall buildings with it this is the Ramsey show thank you for joining us America Jade Walsh all Ramsey personality is my co-host

today Diane is in Seattle hey Diane how are you? Hi, Diane. I'm fine. I mean, hi, babe. I'm fine. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Well, I have a foundation that looks like it's having some problems and I don't have the money to get it fixed. I don't know what to do. I am 63. I'm a widow. I live alone. And what I do have is a house that's worth about $600,000-ish, I think a little bit more, and it's all paid off. And I have no savings. My husband has died and I've been trying to make up for his income as well. So I've been talking to people, very few, that say I should either take a HELOC or an

equity agreement loan and borrow the money I need to fix the foundation. And I also have an additional dwelling unit. It's about a 500 square foot studio. It has just about everything except for it does not have a shower. And my son who works in that industry would do all the work for me. And I would like to get put together, you know, nice enough to rent out. And that's going to take a little bit of money to do. And again, I don't have the money right now to do that. What are you using to eat every month? Social Security?

I have, I do work. I'm a caregiver and caregivers don't make a whole lot of money, but it's really my passion to work with seniors and those with dementia and Alzheimer's. What do you earn from that? So I, what do I earn? $22.22 an hour and I average just under 40 hours a week. I also have a side business, if you want to call it that, where I'm like an independent caregiver.

People started hearing about my name from people I'd helped before and started spreading around. So I started picking up private jobs on the side in addition to what I'm doing and so my total annual income is about $57,000. In the Seattle area that's not a whole lot. No it's not but it's not bad. It's not as bad as I thought you were going to tell me so you're doing good. Okay. Well what is your formal training?

My formal training is I'm a CNA a certified nurse assistant. I've been doing this since 2011 Okay, so you could make a lot more than you make if you applied that in a different setting Correct Correct? You can make a lot more than you make now as a caregiver. CNAs make more than $22 an hour in Seattle. That's what I'm earning right now. I said they make more than that in Seattle. If you were not in the caregiving world, if you were just working as a CNA, you could make double that.

They go into downtown Seattle area? I don't know. Surround Seattle area? I don't know. Surrounding area? I don't know. But you know CNAs make more than $22, don't you? It depends on who you're working for. I know. And you're working for the cheapest possible one and you're broke. Yes. Okay, so here's your options, all right. You have two possible avenues that you can go. It'll help you to have good solid information to make a decision which of these way to go, okay?

So the good solid information is I need a detailed amount of money that your son needs and equipment or in materials to get this other apartment finished exactly how much is that gonna cost and i need to get three bids on the foundation have you done that yet no i'd just uh... realizes the other day

have somebody look at the foundation three different companies and give you an exact number and then let's just play pretend for a second. I'm going to make up some numbers, alright. Let's pretend that the foundation is 20,000 and the repairs to the apartment, the materials your son needs to do that are 5,000. So you would need 25,000 to do both of these projects on your $600,000 home, correct? Yes. Okay. And then you need to change jobs and go get $25,000 with working. You can make

$25,000 more than you're making now in one year and accomplish both of these goals. That is route number one. Route number two is sell the house and move into something cheaper. Okay. Yeah, buy a $400,000 one-bedroom condo and put $200,000 in investments and not worry about any of this and keep doing exactly what you're doing. But you can't, I don't see $25,000 coming out of $57,000 to do this work if that's the number. If the number is $2,500, I don't think it is,

then you might be able to do that, right? But once you've got that information then it's gonna tell you what you've got to do. I have to go get this money or I have to sell the house. I think that there's probably more margin there also than we realize. She doesn't have a house payment. She's single. What else? What's her biggest bill is my question.

So there should there should be some margin now. Now there is plus if she goes and gets the job. She's being underpaid. And she said that, but then she wouldn't admit it later. Caregivers don't get paid much. That's true, but I mean, she's almost making 60,000 a year. But it's my passion. Well, she's working two different things to get there.

And I'm telling you, she could double her income. Yeah, 100% she can, but I'm just saying even today, there's probably more margin than you think. I don't know that she's on a budget and I think that would probably go a long ways. Yeah as well. That's a good idea too. That goes with it. Goes right in there as well. So that's the thing. So yeah you know I'm gonna push you that direction to change your income scenario and try to keep the house. I think that's gonna serve you 20 years from now better than the one bedroom condo idea.

Agree. But if you're unwilling to do something with your career track to get the money to fix the house, then that means you can no longer afford the house. That's also true, yep, that's right. And so you gotta make that decision. So it's tough, it's very, very, very tough. Hey, thank you for calling in, hon. I appreciate you. All right, speaking of real estate, buying or selling a home

is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the best deal at the right price. The Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find a top agent that we trust that you can trust who will help make make your home a blessing and not a burden. It's easy. Just compare agent profiles, interview them, choose the right one to work with, and find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free at RamseySolutions.com slash agent or click in the description if you're listening on YouTube or on the podcast. And if you're doing a budget Jade was talking

about a minute ago you need to get on every dollar right Jade that's right and our every dollar team has multiple free trainings for you this month you can join live to learn how to break the paycheck to paycheck cycle in 90 days you'll get step-by-step walkthrough of the EveryDollar budgeting app. You can download the EveryDollar budgeting app and get in one of these free webinars. Get your biggest budgeting questions answered live in the Q&A. Over a hundred and sixty thousand people have already been through these webinars. Spots are limited each time we do them so sign up now for free at every dollar dot com slash webinar and you'll often find Rachel or George or Jade in there too. Yeah sometimes we pop in there.

Doing those webinars and teaching you how to take that the the world's best budgeting app and use it to accomplish the baby steps to get you out of debt and into wealth. It works good. It's necessary of all the things that we teach the foundation of underneath all of it is the budget. If you don't have that you're going to struggle with everything that we teach. Yeah, because you're telling your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. And the weird thing is we say it all the time around here that when you start doing a budget you'll feel like you got a raise. Yeah. Because there's something about the organization of

it the empowerment of it that gives you emotional control for the first time in your life. You're on top of your money instead of it being on top of you. And you realize, Hey, I did have margin. It was just going to door dash or to, I don't know, what are folks spending money on food? It's food. Food. It's food. It's always partying, entertainment. Yeah. Food and drink and Mary mint and food. It's always partying, entertainment. Yeah, food and drink, merriment. And food, merriment.

I need a merriment budget. That's what I need. This is the Ramsey Show. Charles is in Phoenix. Hey, Charles, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hi, Jade. Thanks for talking with me. Sure. I'm calling because last November I took a job that finally allowed me to get out of living paycheck to paycheck. And I've been at it for six months now. And I'm finding that it is not really anywhere near what I thought it would be.

And it's really kind of taking taxes on me. What do you mean? So I'm sitting So I work for a private family And so I'm kind of at the beck and call, you know, some days I don't do anything at all other days I'm running around like a madman and trying to figure out what to do next doing what and the kind of job What's the nature of the job? I oversee their house so all all their facilities, maintenance, but also getting ready for events and parties and things like that.

It's kind of a little bit of everything. So you get paid well? Yeah, what do you get paid? Yes, 95. And how many hours a week is that? 40-ish, up to 55. and the problem is what yeah help me understand What's the problem most days? Most days I'm stagnant. I'm doing almost nothing and I'm sitting here. I mean that it's allowed me to read all your books

Couldn't you have something on the side that you also do that with that time? That's on that you're in control of when you go do it No, because I'm required to be on site Okay, so you have to be on the grounds okay, so the problem is you're sitting that's the problem It I'm sitting but then there's days when it's like then there's days when you're now now Which days bother you the most? The days that you're sitting or when you're working? The days that I'm sitting. I mean I'm college educated and yeah I don't feel like it's a good use of my time more than anything

I see So I have a job offer right now that I'm sitting on But if I were to take it I'm afraid you know it'd be about a $15,000 pay cut because I don't like it that much are you in debt yes how much about me how about getting a job that you make more that you like more why is that not an option? I would agree. Go get that job. I kind of think. And then that's like a no-brainer. Take a pay cut because I'm sitting on my butt getting paid 95k is not a plan. Agreed. Go get something where you get a pay increase. You get your college

education. What's your degree in? Operations management. Okay so I mean you ought to go make 110 right? I mean I've been out of it for so long it's hard to say. I mean that's... I think that's what I'd go looking for the other thing fell in your lap. A pay cut fell in your lap. You weren't looking. Yes. You weren't looking. Oh, no. I've been looking for two and a half years.

This fell into my lap. What I'm currently at is I fell into my lap. And that's why I hopped on it. OK. Because this isn't a job that comes available very often. And so I saw the opportunity and I took it. And now I'm in the boat that I'm at. Yeah. So essentially not really a horrible boat it's just a

it feels like you're not being utilized to the fullest. You're not getting you know you feel like you could do more and I don't blame you for that part. I don't blame you for that part but I'm not getting frustrated enough with that to go take a pay cut. Is there something, let me, I'm just brainstorming here for a moment. Is there something that you could offer as an additional service to do with that free time so that you can do something with it and also get additional pay to those, to, to the people who hired you? That's what I'd be brainstorming.

the people who hired you. That's what I'd be brainstorming. Because for instance, the lady that comes to clean our house, if she was sitting on her hands, I would say, well, can we add window, can you add windows to the thing and can you add folding the laundry to the thing? I'd be looking for ways that I can do more money while I'm there and add it to the tab. Does that make sense? That's what I'd be doing if I were you whilst I'm there and add it to the tab. Does that make sense?

That's what I'd be doing if I were you whilst I'm looking for a job that you really love that pays more. Meanwhile, the answer to your question is no, don't take a pay cut. That's the answer to your question, that's silly. You need to go do a better job on your job hunt and move out of this thing if you don't wanna do it.

I don't blame you for not wanting to do it. That's not the end of the world. But in the meantime, you're making $95,000 a year house setting. That's true. And honestly, perspective is everything on this. You're getting out of debt. You've got a mountain of debt, it sounds like, that you're trying to pay off. And sometimes just kind of embracing what you have in the moment. It's better to make 15,000 more than 80,000 more for a short period of time in order to win faster. So it also could just be a temporary perspective change that you need. Yeah, again, I don't blame you if you don't, I don't want to be doing this 10 years from

now. Sure. 100%. But in the meantime, get your butt out of debt. And if you're going to change jobs, at least do it with a pay increase, not a decrease. There's no reason to do that. So I mean, I'll send you Ken Coleman's book Proximity Principle and Paycheck to Purpose, both of them, and let you start

thinking about how you can look for a job differently than maybe you have been. It sounds like your job hunt is unfruitful because it has led us to this stupid idea of a pay cut. And that's a stupid idea. Don't do that. No, don't do that. It doesn't make sense at all. No, not while you especially not while you're in debt. Yeah, so that's for sure Haley's in Houston. Hey Haley. Welcome to the Ramsey show Hi Dave. Thank you for having me. Hey, what's up? Oh, yes, sir So me and my husband have just started they get out of debt plan. We're on step two awesome right now Yes, sir. Right now my car is not reliable

and for the first time I'm upside down. So the car is, I owe 23,000. I can only get about eight to like 10 from if I was to trade it in. Whoa, did you trade a negative equity car into this deal? Whoa, did you trade a negative equity car into this deal? No sir, I just took too long and paid minimum on it. What kind of car is this? No, no, no, no. You don't get this far upside down unless you got screwed or you rolled negative equity into it. What kind of car is this?

It's a 2019 Acura MDX. Something's not right. Did you run up a bazillion miles on it? Did you wreck it and not fix it? No I didn't wreck it. I mean I have a lot of miles from work but I mean I've just been paying my minimum since I've had it. Minimums don't run you into 50% upside down. Minimums run you into 30% upside down. Do you have a really high interest rate? No, we've got a good interest rate on it too. It was like a, I want to say it's like around

four or 3.8 or so. So right now we're trying to figure out, okay, like do we just pay off the car and then get me a cheap little hooptie car after that? Yeah. and then get me a cheap little hooptie car after that? Or the question is because my car's not that reliable right now. I have 155,000 miles and it might look good, but I took it in for recalls to get fixed and I got my car back in really bad shape from the dealership. And they claimed that everything wasn't their fault and it was already like that. So my car seems to be falling apart while I drive it and we don't have the money to fix it right now. So it's like,

I'm hoping to like have the money to fix it before it goes dead on me. Um, you know, so this is pretty vague. Like you have no idea what's wrong with this car or how it got there or what it is. I mean, it's suddenly going to die after it went to the dealership to get repaired. They don't have that. They don't have that at the dealership. That's not something they can inject into your car. Well I had like three recalls and they worked on it and then when I got it back there is like more issues that I never heard. They told you about the issues. Yeah they

listen they're always gonna tell you what's wrong with your car and what that it's gonna burst into flames as you start driving. Cause they want you to do more to it. And then you have to discern if that's really real or necessary or urgent, right? Right. No, it definitely is though.

Like now, like I said, when I took my car, it wasn't making certain noises. And when I got my car back, like it's making noises and it's like embarrassing and it just doesn't sound right. So me and my husband are trying to figure out, okay, we just keep on paying it off and hopefully the car laughs. Again, there are noises and then there are noises

that lead to the car not working. Right. And I'm not sure you know the difference. Let me just throw this out there cause I want you to know, Hayley, you guys are trying to get on your get out of debt journey. There are some things that are part and parcel to this journey.

I can tell you that my husband and I, when we were paying off $460,000 of debt, we drove a Jeep. We were a one car family, and we drove a Jeep with quote unquote special features for very long. And one of the special features was it smoked smoke came out of the hood every Time I drove it and we ignored it and the windows were held up by shoelaces

And we ignored it because now was not the time to buy a new car So you need to have discernment on whether this really is urgent or whether it's just inconvenient Yeah, I'm thinking it's the latter And this is not a ladder you lean against the house. Our Scripture of the Day Proverbs 13-12, Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life. Walter Williams said, I'm healthy, subsidized prescription drugs won't do me much good. I'd be willing to forego my prescription drugs if Congress would force some young American

to mow my lawn. No idea what that means. Okay. So great. All right. Jake is in San Antonio, Texas. Hey Jake, what's up? Good afternoon. Thanks for having me on. Sure. How can we help? Yeah. Um, so my question is how can I help my recently, uh, recently widowed senior mother while maintaining healthy boundaries and encouraging her financial and mental wellbeing. Your dad passed?

Yes. About three weeks ago. I'm so sorry. How old was he? He was 67. Whoa. What happened? He had been sick for a while, but it was still pretty very sudden. How old are you? I am 27. Can your mom ask for your help? She can't decide so you know she'll ask for my help sometimes and then get very upset when I try to help. But basically there's me trying to, um, advise her financially.

I think she, what did you tell her to do that upset her? Um, well, there's about $160,000 of debt. And I mean, she knows that she needs to, she has, she has a home that's worth a lot more than that, that she knows she needs to sell, but it's kind of the, the in-between process until that happens in terms of staying on a budget. How long was she married to your dad? Uh, 32 years. And he's been gone three whole weeks.

Yes. Yeah. I bet she's probably not up for talking about showing her house. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's just, it's, it's, and you know, everyone's saying, take it one thing at a time, but that just feels so difficult with how dire this situation is. I mean, I just trying to keep the lights on. I mean, she's in a, she's in a $450,000 house that she can't afford.

I mean, she only gets social security income. So, so, and there's no nest egg? No there's nothing. Was your dad? She has a paid four, four hundred fifty thousand dollar house and no money and a hundred sixty thousand in debt on what? So there's lines of credit, unpaid property taxes, and HOA, IRS debt, that's the big one. And credit cards and a car. How were they surviving when your dad was ill? Was he working all up, up until the point that he passed?

Yes. And they had not filed taxes for about a decade. And it's just you. Are you the only sibling? Yes. Okay, the only child. It sounds like, just listening. It is dire, you're right. It is dire and people do process grief differently. It sounds like she's kind of just taking her time

and trying to get her bearings and you're like, we've got to do something. And there should be grace for both sides of that. She understands it to a degree, like she's been in contact with a real estate agent and trying to get that ball rolling. But you know, I mean, she doesn't even know where the wheel is. There's a whole bunch, bunch of issues.

Okay. Whew. Well, I, you know. So what do you need her, what in your mind do you want her to do for herself that she's not doing? I want her to just keep the lights on and pay the minimum bills. I mean, her income is just barely enough to cover, you know, just... Is she not doing that? Well, she wants to make payments on the credit cards. So you

need to convince her to focus on those four walls first. Exactly. And it's just not making sense to her. Yeah. Okay. Well, um, you have two things conflicting with each other. Okay. She deserves time to grieve the loss of her husband of 33 years. And so no one thinks clearly three weeks after you lose your best friend of 33 years, no one does. Okay, I can promise you I'm gonna be useless if Sharon were to pass before me for a period of time. It's just how it works. Okay, so that that's the problem you're running into. Then on the other side there's the urgency of all of these things piling up

or of her paying the wrong people and then not having money for food. And the dire situation, that was your word, but it's actually an accurate word with what you've described. So I think, I don't know, it sounds like you're a detailed person. What do you do for a living? I work for an engineering company and do some marketing. What's your engineer about training? No, sir. No, I'm a writer. Okay.

Is the stress coming from you, because I think there's a differential here. Is the stress coming from you saying because I think there's a differential here. Is the stress coming from you saying, mom, you need to do these things? Because I'm wondering if you said, mom, let me help you. I'll take this on for a couple of weeks. You take your time. Let me handle this. I'll make sure everything gets paid.

I'll make sure. Is there a way that you could offer that as a kind service to her as opposed to, mom, you need to go do this and you need to be thinking about this and you need to, does that make sense? Or have you tried that? Well, I apologize to introduce another layer, but I did try that for a couple of weeks. And I actually took a step back about a week ago because I was handling everything and I told her, you know, I need you to stay in the budget if I'm going to help. And then she goes out

and buys wine with money that she doesn't have and I said, I can't. I had told her that was a condition that I was operating on and I said, I can't help you. Yeah, honey, you're being awfully strict with someone who lost their husband three weeks ago. Yeah. She needs a little more grace. I'm not endorsing her misbehavior, but man, she's in the most difficult three week period of her entire life right this second. And a bottle of wine's probably not a bad thing. You know, I'm just, I'm with you. I'm the guy that tells everybody never be an enabler, okay?

And I don't want you to be an enabler. But we're not enabling when we give someone a little bit of room time wise to try to absorb this, the size of this blow. And so, yeah, I don't know the whole dynamic between you and her and I suspect there's probably more layers to it that we haven't gotten to that would explain why you're being this strict, I suspect. But it's just, most people can't function for the first month when you lose someone of 30 years plus.

And to ask her to be suddenly functional and follow a strict guideline of this or that is a lot to ask in a short period of time. And so, yeah, I'm going to suggest as much grace as you can give her. And, you know, if something turns upside down, gets sideways, if the IRS comes after her, then they just do. But I think she needs a hug. Yeah. As much as she needs your discipline. I mean, again, I don't know the dynamic in your own relationship, but that's, it's just normal for people to cry a lot

for the first three weeks. Yeah, and look for relief elsewhere. Yeah. Yeah, I bet you can't count the times in 30 years on this show that I told someone to lighten up. Yeah, sure. That's only been three weeks. I generally don't.

I generally go, you know, don't be an enabler. Quit doing this, you know. But three weeks in, you just need a little grace. Just, if it was five months ago, I might be more on your side. If it was a year ago, I'd be more on your side if it was a year ago I'd definitely be on your side time to come to start moving some stuff around but give her a moment that puts this hour the Ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of

Peace Christ Jesus